Your Custom Text Here
The NFL Draft is fast approaching and NFL Agent Evan Brennan is fielding hundreds of phone calls a day, all in the hopes of moving his clients just a few spots up in the draft. Go inside the life of an NFL Agent as we talk cloak and dagger contracts, shady recruiting tactics and the business of the NFL. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Sports Video Games.
Evan Brennan: 01:36
Pointless: 35:22
Top 5: 56:09
Eclipse Astronomer Dr. Benjamin Boe has spent the last decade studying eclipses all over the world. He says the total solar eclipse on April 8, 2024, will be incredibly special. We talk the rarity of solar eclipses, what science has learned because of eclipses and why one day, we won’t have them anymore. Then, we unveil a new Candle of the Month and countdown the Top 5 Scariest Things About Space.
Dr. Benjamin Boe: 01:30
Pointless: 31:19
Candle of the Month: 53:39
Top 5 Scary Space Things: 57:13
Discount Code: pointless50
Nick VinZant 0:00
Hi welcome to Profoundly Pointless, my name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, Eclipse, astronomy, and scary space things,
Dr. Benjamin Boe 0:22
this is going to be a good one to see for all of those reasons. But then also, you'll be able to see Mercury and Venus and potentially even Mars and Saturn as well. But this line that they found in the corona had never been seen anywhere else. So they, they named it Chronium, because they thought, Oh, it's a new element, there was an eclipse, where it actually ended a war. So there was like a battle going on. And
Nick VinZant 0:45
I want to thank you so much for joining us, if you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest. Because whether you're listening to this before the APR Eclipse, right after it, or whenever he has some fascinating insight into just how rare eclipses are, what they mean for science, and why in the future, we won't have them. This is Eclipse astronomer, Dr. Benjamin bow. Like from a scientific standpoint, why is an eclipse special. So
Dr. Benjamin Boe 1:34
normally the solar disk is it is always very, very bright. But during an eclipse, the Moon comes exactly between the Earth and the Sun. And so no, you'll no longer see that really bright surface. And instead you see the corona, which is this outer atmosphere of the sun, that actually expands out into space and you know, create space weather and all kinds of things like this. But the corona the the thing is with the corona is it's about a million to a billion times fainter than the solar disk. So that it's that really high contrast ratio of if you have something that's a factor of a million fainter right next to something else, that's that really bright source, it's very, very difficult to observe it normally. And so total solar eclipses are this really unique sort of just cosmic coincidence that are Moon happens to be in the right place at the right time, such that we can perfectly block it out, and then we're able to see the corona super easily. But
Nick VinZant 2:32
okay, so the corona, so you can study the corona, but why is the why is the corona special,
Dr. Benjamin Boe 2:37
it's really just one step along the way of how the sun is influencing basically the entire solar system. So you know, inside the sun, you've got nuclear fusion powering it, and then you've got these different layers in the sun, eventually, you get to the surface. And that's what we can see normally, so there's tons of telescopes that observe the surface of the sun all the time. But then right above the surface, you have the corona, and it's much lower density than the surface, which is why it's so much fainter. And then that material actually is unbounded. So unlike the surface of the sun, where it kind of just stays there, the corona actually expands out into space and fills the entire solar system. So if you know from a sort of a selfish motivation, we're interested in understanding the corona because any dynamics that happened in the corona will propagate outward, and potentially can impact the Earth. Other planets, you know, if we have spacecraft, or even if you know, in the future, we want to go to Mars or something, this is the sort of thing we have to think about it, like how is the sun impacting the solar system, and the corona is really this sort of nexus point where a lot of that stuff gets started. And so if you really want to understand how to predict what the sun is going to be doing on the, to the rest of the solar system, you really need to understand the corona. But because we have that, that trick where it's difficult to observe the corona normally, we don't know that much about it, because it's so hard to observe. And so it's sort of simultaneously this really important region for understanding how the solar wind is going to be formed and how the sun is impacting the solar system. But also, it's one of the most difficult places to observe. So it's this combination of like, it's very important, and it's very difficult to do that make it so such an important thing to study.
Nick VinZant 4:28
How does this translate to me sitting in my house in Seattle? With
Dr. Benjamin Boe 4:32
this sort of data, we can figure out things like temperature and density and other physical properties of the corona. And so basically, with these different sorts of data, we can infer a lot of the physical properties of the corona, right? And then the thing is, okay, that is then an observation of what the Corona was actually doing at some particular time. So, in the long term, we figure out how we can improve our models, which then ultimately will improve our prediction ability so that we can tell you, you know, is there going to be a solar event that is going to be a problem for us here on the earth. But even more fundamentally, from just a pure science perspective, you know, this sort of thing gives us a better understanding of the complex physics that's going on in the in the corona. And that could have other applications. You know, often in science, we work on things that don't necessarily have an obvious, you know, immediate return to the economy or something. But then maybe a century later, someone realizes, oh, all this work that they did, does have a huge impact. And you can think back to the people working on the early electricity experiments in the 19th century and stuff, you know, they weren't thinking necessarily about how this is going to be powering all of our society, but ultimately, specifically in blip the corona it's can we predict, not only when these sort of, especially the eruptive events, like coronal mass ejections, when they're forming, how they're being initiated? But then also, once they've started being initiated? How are they going to evolve and propagate through the corona? And that will have an impact, you know, on where it ends up going? How strong it ends up being things like this, if
Nick VinZant 6:14
you were to put things on a scale of like one to 10? How much do we know about the sun one being like, we don't even know what that big, yellowish looking thing is? Yeah. 10 being we got everything figured out. Like, where do you think that we are right now?
Dr. Benjamin Boe 6:30
Gosh, that's such a hard question. Maybe halfway, five, or six, maybe seven, if we're being a little optimistic, but we still have a long way to go. I mean, we know a lot of the physics for sure. And we know a lot of the fundamental physics because, you know, people in the lab, you know, especially with quantum mechanics, and, and, you know, with really complicated Magneto hydrodynamic modeling and things like this, you know, we know quite a bit, but that said, you know, the sun is absolutely massive. So even if we have sort of the first order, like, you know, we could write some equations and say, Oh, roughly, this is what's going on. But if you start zooming in deeper and deeper, you're gonna, I'm sure we're gonna find more things that surprise us. Just to give you some context on that, you know, the sun is roughly 100 times the diameter of the Earth, which means it's about a million times the volume. So if you just think of how ridiculously massive the sun actually is, you start to realize that like, Yeah, our models are not even close to coming to being able to predict every little thing. But even with these rather simple models, you know, compared to the complexity of the sun, we're still able to get pretty dang close to predicting some reasonable thing,
Nick VinZant 7:50
is there something that like people right now, by studying eclipses, like we are trying to find this specific thing out? Or is it more just like set this up, and let's see what we get. It's
Dr. Benjamin Boe 8:01
definitely more of the latter, which is a little bit different in most of science, you know, the, the method is, okay, we have this hypothesis, we want to make a very particular observation to get a very particular result. And we do that to some extent, but in a lot of ways, we're at the mercy of whatever the sun decides to give us on a given day. So you know, so the Eclipse, they only they only happen about once every year to year and a half or so. And so that means we're really just getting one snapshot, you know, and they only last a few minutes. So you're really just getting one little snapshot at one point in time, you know, every year or two. But because of that, we end up finding things that we don't expect, you know, like this, maybe there's a really cool coronal mass ejection, and it behaves in a way that we've never seen before. And so we can study that, fundamentally, though, we know what the corona is going to be doing in the sense of, we know what metrics we can use to study it. And the main thing are these things we call emission lines. And so this comes out of something out of atomic physics, where different atoms, different ions and elements have very particular colors of light that they'll interact with. And so we know what are the primary atoms that are in the corona that we're interested in? And we know what that can tell us, like, you know, we know how we can measure temperature and density and magnetic field and something called the freezing distance and various other physical properties. We know that these lines will give us different information about this. And we know exactly what color they're going to be, it's always going to be the same because the atomic physics never changes. And so we go with these cameras with these particular filters. Knowing full well we'll record this line that we're interested in. And then really, it's then when you see how bright was the line, how does this line compared to a different line? That's how we then can get get deeper down at the different physics that we're that we're studying. So
Nick VinZant 9:58
you can tell by the color's essentially how much of an element is in the sun. Exactly,
Dr. Benjamin Boe 10:03
yeah. And this is what we do in all of astronomy. So literally any area of astronomy, from galaxies, nebulae, comets and asteroids, the sun, all of it, fundamentally, the main tool that we have is to study the light of something. And so we can understand the different compositions, temperatures, densities, magnetic field, etc, we learn that from these from studying light, and that's observationally, how we do things.
Nick VinZant 10:32
So when you look at this eclipse, is this eclipse special, or is this kind of like it's another Eclipse. It's great. It's rare, but it's another Eclipse.
Dr. Benjamin Boe 10:39
I think from an observers point of view, it's a great eclipse, in part because of how long it is, it's going to be at maximum around about four and a half minutes, especially where I'm going to be down in Texas, as well as we have a group in Arkansas and in Mexico. And at those three sites, each one, that's the time of totality is about four and a half minutes, which will be by far my longest eclipse, the average eclipses are more like two, two and a half minutes. So it'll be kind of weird to like, go through that two and a half minutes and then realize there's two more minutes to go. For me anyway, that'll be a new experience. Another thing because it's longer, it basically means the moon is closer at that time, so it's a little bit bigger, which is why it takes longer to cross the sun. And so because of that, the sky should also be quite a bit darker. So it means you're going to see things a lot more clearly. And then on top of that, there's a really nice planetary alignment. So for the average person, this is going to be a good one to see for all of those reasons. But then also, you'll be able to see Mercury and Venus and potentially even Mars and Saturn as well. So you're really going to see the whole solar system kind of laid out in front of you. And that's something that happened for me in 2017, which was the first eclipse that I saw, where it was totally clear. So I had been in Indonesia and 2016. But it was partly cloudy. So I kind of saw it, but it was you know, it was through clouds and whatnot. But in 2017, it was totally clear. I saw Venus and Mercury and Jupiter. And I saw the corona just stretching out really far across the sky. And I had this profound moment of feeling like that I was just in the solar system. And really, it wasn't this abstract idea anymore. Like there it was right in front of me. It's the closest thing I can describe to it is what the astronauts talk about when they go to space, and they look down at the Earth. And they get that thing they call the observer effect, where they felt that just profound, you know, philosophical moment of just seeing our place in the universe really viscerally it's like, I think I experienced something very similar during a total solar eclipse. So I encourage people definitely go, because you know, that's the kind of experience you can only get either during an eclipse, or if you want to spend a heck of a lot of money and actually go into space. Another reason for people specifically in the United States is that this is gonna be the last eclipse in the continental US until 2045. So we have more than two decades before this is going to happen again, in such an easy location for us to get to. So from a convenience perspective, it also is a very good one to observe when
Nick VinZant 13:17
I don't remember exactly, but I remember experiencing two of them, maybe one on one when I was really young, that was like a total one because I remember that being reddish and being dark. And then I remember another and 2017 and just thinking like, Oh, crap, all this is like real? Yeah. Like, oh, did
Dr. Benjamin Boe 13:36
you see totality in 2017?
Nick VinZant 13:38
No, I would have been in Arizona. I don't think so. Yeah, that wouldn't have been totality, then. Yeah. Um, okay. But if you're gonna go see this, right, and you've pretty much convinced me like me, and maybe I should get in the car and go see, it's like, it's gonna be cool. Yeah. Where is there like a spot or two that like, Okay, this is the spot. This is where you should be. It varies
Dr. Benjamin Boe 13:59
a lot. So the path of totality goes through Mexico, the US and then up into Canada. The reason our low our sights are going to be in Texas, Mexico, and Arkansas. And the reason we made that choice was in part because the eclipse is longer there than it is in the northeast, for example. But on top of that, the weather prospects are statistically better in the south than they are in the Northeast. So like in Texas and Arkansas, I think the statistics are roughly 50% probability that it'll be totally clear skies. In Mexico, it's even better probability of clear skies. But up in you know, up here in New York, Vermont, Maine, these regions, it's more like 80% chance of clouds. So it's really much more of a gamble. That said, I mean, I still think it's I've been telling people you know, around here in Boston, I'm telling people go up to Burlington, Vermont. It's not that far, you know, in If you if you do see it, even if you see it through clouds, it's still a spectacular experience. If you have flexibility, one thing you could do is get yourself close to the path totality, and then check the weather forecast, like a couple of days before and be like, Okay, we should drive up there down there, whatever.
Nick VinZant 15:18
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Sure. What are some things that we have learned from eclipses? I don't know how your history is necessarily. But are there things that we'd say, Oh, we've, because of an eclipse, we figured that out.
Dr. Benjamin Boe 15:30
You know, historically, going back into the 19th century, there were a lot of astronomers who had traveled to eclipses, and they would very diligently make drawings of the eclipse. And I think usually, they would have a team of a few people who would take notes and draw as much as they could. And then they would compile all of their notes to make one master drawing to be like, This is our best guess, what it looked like. And if you go back to those data, it's actually seems pretty accurate based on I mean, it's not perfect, of course, but it's relatively representative of probably what it really looked like. And then the the famous one was in 1869, where they observed with a prism for the first time. So you basically took an image of the corona through a prism, which breaks it into the different wavelengths, the different colors of light. And that was when they discovered this new line that had never been seen before this new emission line that was in the green at about 530 nanometers. And this had never been seen before. And you know, in around the same time in the, in the laboratory, you know, chemists had been burning things, and looking through prisms, and they had identified many of these different lines, like, Oh, this one corresponds to calcium, and this one is magnesium, and this one is lithium and so on. But this line that they found in the corona had never been seen anywhere else. So they named it Chronium. Because they thought, Oh, it's a new element. And actually this just before that, I don't remember the exact year. But that's actually why helium has the name that it has is that helium was first seen during an eclipse with the same kind of observation. And they saw these these lines, they'd never seen this. Well, let's name it after the sun Helios. So that's helium. And so that was actually coming from a part of the corona, we called prominences. Whereas this caronian line was coming from the corona, hence why they called it Chronium. And then it wasn't until many decades later in the 1930s, that quantum mechanics kind of came to maturity. And they realize that no, this isn't some new element, it's actually just iron, a very, very well known element that's all around us, you know, and but it's been ionized 13 times, some of my favorite papers are going back and reading the ones from the 1950s and 60s, when they really started getting better and better instrumentation. And they measured all kinds of things about the polarization of the corona, about the fact that there's also a lot of dust throughout the solar system that makes a good amount of light. There's the electrons in the corona that re emit solar light, and there's these ions. And so there's some really great papers like, you know, more than half a century ago, where they were discovering all these things, will there always be eclipses? Ah, that's a very good question. So basically, the moon is actually getting farther away from us over time. And this is because as the moon orbits the Earth, it actually creates the tides, right. That's why we have the high and the low tide every day, or twice a day. And the tides actually kind of rub on the earth and there's some friction there, that actually applies a torque to the earth Moon system. And so it actually slowly flings the moon away from us. I won't go into all the physics of it. But basically, the moon is because of the tides is slowly drifting away. And so if you wait a long period of time, eventually, the moon will be too far away where all of the eclipses, it won't, it won't be able to fully block the sun anymore. Now, if you run the clock backwards, and say what was happening when the dinosaurs were around hundreds of millions of years ago, the moon was quite a bit closer. And so actually, you would have had total solar eclipses, that would last much longer and would have occurred much more often. So the dinosaurs were probably treated to, you know, a few times a year that they would see a total solar eclipse, and it might last, you know, many, many minutes as opposed to now where we're, you know, getting just a couple of minutes. And sometimes like what happened last year, across the US there was an eclipse, but the moon was a little bit too far away. And so you had what we call an annular eclipse, where you get the ring of fire effect. Part of the problem is that the moon's orbit is tipped about five degrees relative to the Earth's orbit around the sun. So there's certain times of year where the Moon and the Sun and the Earth line up perfectly. There's other times of year where the moon passes above or below the sun, but certainly we are super lucky that we have a moon That is as big as it is, which is much, much bigger than any moon of any other planet that we know of relative, so that the relative size of the Earth and the Moon is there far closer in size than any other planet Moon system that we've discovered. So it's probably a cosmic fluke, that we have this coincidental alignment. And I've actually heard you know, jokes where people say, you know, in the far future, if humans really do colonize the galaxy and spread out to different solar systems, then eventually they'll be tourism to come back to the earth to see an eclipse, because it will be something that they won't have on any of the other solar systems.
Nick VinZant 20:40
Is this is this a rare type of Eclipse? Like in just in terms of the overall type? Or is there an even rarer one that like, this one only happens every whatever. So
Dr. Benjamin Boe 20:51
this one is long and four and a half minutes? It's a bit long. The theoretical maximum, though, is over seven minutes. And actually, that's a side note I wanted to make, which is that a lot of people tell me, it really frustrates me when they say, oh, you know, like here in Boston, for example, we're going to have a 93% Eclipse, like, isn't that good enough? It's 93% is good, right? And I just don't like no, absolutely not is completely different. Because you don't see the corona, you will see a really cool thing, which is the crust and sun. And it's still a great experience. And I'm still, you know, handing out these classes and telling people, you know, safely observe the partial eclipse to great experience. But that said, if you can go see a total eclipse, that's a whole nother ballgame that's seeing the corona that's really fully experiencing it. A metaphor I like to use for this is, if you if you went through a connection in the Denver Airport, and then you told all your friends about the time you visited Denver, they would say no, you didn't. You went through the airport. Like that's a partial eclipse, compared to a total eclipse, like the total eclipse is going out in the city and seeing everything there is to see, whereas the partial eclipse is like Well, yeah, I had a connection. Right?
Nick VinZant 22:03
That's a great metaphor. That's a great way to look at it. Like I was in Denver. Where are you? Um, what's your favorite Eclipse conspiracy theory?
Dr. Benjamin Boe 22:14
Oh. I mean, if you let me pontificate for a bit, go for it, man, go for it. So one thing I rather like about both a solar and lunar eclipses is it really is a way to prove to yourself that the Earth is actually round, and that everything is actually orbiting each other. This was something you know, the ancient Greeks knew when they saw lunar eclipses, they saw the shadow of the earth, and they saw it was always curved, and they went Okay, so the Earth is round. So we very much knew that the Earth was a sphere very long time ago. So that's definitely not, not true, the whole flat Earth conspiracy. But in terms of eclipses and conspiracies there, gosh, I don't know about conspiracy so much. But it is interesting. If you read some of the ancient history of people's reacting to eclipses, a lot of people saw it as like a big omen of this horrible thing that maybe you know, whatever their given deity was angry at them and things like this, there are different cultures who have stories of you know, monsters eating up the sun, and they would do various things to try to appease their their gods, and then the sun would come back. And I can't imagine what that would be like to experience an eclipse without knowing what's happening. Because it's really even knowing fully what's happening. It is a very powerful experience. Some people get, you know, incredible fear. I've heard some people like you almost get paralyzed by fear. Like deep in your brain, something just activates and you get like, terrified. And for me, I just get like immense, like adrenaline and anxiety part of that's probably because of the data we're trying to get. And I'm nervous, like, oh my gosh, here we go. But a lot of people get brought to tears. I mean, almost everyone the first time is crying afterward. I mean, it's it's an incredibly powerful thing. Even if you know what's happening and know exactly when it's gonna happen. I can't imagine if you're just, you know, some ancient farmer somewhere like, you know, plowing your field, and all of a sudden, the sun goes away like that would be
Nick VinZant 24:20
like what the man, that would be a really terrifying experience being like, what is happened, if I recall
Dr. Benjamin Boe 24:31
correctly, I should have looked up the details beforehand. So I don't know if you want to use this or not, but we'll give you some leeway we'll give you there was an eclipse where it actually ended a war so there was like a battle going on. And during the battle, a total solar eclipse happened and both sides thought that this was a sign from their god that they should stop fighting. And so they came they both they stopped fighting and leaders came together and they made a true And the war ended.
Nick VinZant 25:01
I mean, that sounds like yeah, like, that's exactly what I would do do like, Hey, man, we better knock this off. So how did you get into this? So
Dr. Benjamin Boe 25:10
I went to graduate school at the University of Hawaii, specifically at the Institute for Astronomy. And when I started grad school, you know, I knew I wanted to do something space related. So I was really excited to learn everything about astronomy. But I wasn't sure you know what field I thought I wanted to do exoplanets or asteroids. So I kind of dabbled in a number of different things. And then one day, in my first year there, I saw a talk by Dr. Shadi a ball. And she showed some of these just spectacular images of a total solar eclipse, and started explaining the science that she was doing with it, and the and the ambition that she had for the coming eclipses, and that she was looking for students to join the group to help out with the instrumentation and do the data analysis and all of that. And after seeing those images and hearing her talk really passionately about it, I was sold, I was like, Okay, I'm doing it. And so I went on that first eclipse in 2016. And at that time, like, I wasn't even really committed to being part of the group, it was just sort of a one off like, yeah, come along on the Eclipse, see if you like it, whatever. And it was just an incredible experience. And also I the more I learned about eclipses, and also about coronal science, the more excited I got about like that this is a really both important for society and really scientifically interesting area to pursue. And so I've been working with Shadi really ever since I did my PhD with her and then I ended up actually doing a postdoc fellowship as well continuing on our work. And then now I'm at the, just just this last year, I got a professor position at the Wentworth Institute of Technology. And so now I'm trying to get my own students to keep building the group and hopefully carry on the torch of of doing eclipses long into the future.
Nick VinZant 26:58
Um, that's pretty much all we got, man, is there anything that we think we missed or anything like that, one thing
Dr. Benjamin Boe 27:03
I find really cool about eclipses is that every time you see something different, and this is partly because the sun goes through a cycle where every about roughly 11 years, there's a period of maximum activity and a period of minimum activity. And this is really because of the way that the sun's magnetic field is changing and evolving, and it and it goes through periods where it's very dormant, and then periods are very active. And so as you see along the period of different amounts of activity, the corona looks very different. So the magnetic field totally changes, the density changes whether or not you have coronal mass ejections, or what they look like, and the different sorts of structures you see, like, do you see these open field lines that kind of radiate outward? Or do you see more of the stream or kind of things that come to like a tip, and they're a little more dense. And so because of this, every single Eclipse is different. Every Corona that you see is different, or really, it's the same Corona. But every time you see the corona, it's so different. So I'm really excited to see this one, because it'll be the closest to solar maximum that I've seen. Like in 2016, I saw it kind of through clouds, and it was in the descending phase, so it wasn't so active, 2017 and 2019, we're closer solar minimum. So it was a little bit more organized and not so active than 2023 is the last one I saw that one was very active in Australia. And so that was really cool clips to see. But it was very short, it was only 52 seconds. So I was really disappointed when it ended. I was like, Oh, it's so short. I wanted to you know, so anyway, but this eclipse, it's going to also be a really unique one because the sun has been crazy active recently. Like I've just been seeing things you know, articles and stuff saying that the sun is popping off coronal mass ejections like crazy right now. So I'm really hoping that we see a beautiful eruption during the eclipse. And, you know, and because it's going to be a longer Eclipse, it's going to be a bit darker. So combined the fact that the sun is active with a really dark Eclipse, and it's also very high in the sky. So I think like from an observing perspective, I don't think I've had a better Eclipse. So I'm really looking forward to this one. I
Nick VinZant 29:12
want to thank Dr. Bose so much for joining us. If you want to connect with him, we have a link to him on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included his information in the episode description. If you want to see some of the eclipses that we're talking about. The YouTube version of this episode will be live on April 4 at 12:30pm Pacific. So real quick, I want to take a moment and thank one of the sponsors of our show factor. And right now they have a special discount just for our listeners. If you're not familiar with factor factor is number one. Really good. Number two are really easy. And number three, they are the most cost effective meal delivery service that you can get. What I really like about them is that it's always fresh, it's never frozen. These are meals that have been prepared by a chef and they've been gone over by a dietitian to make sure that you are getting healthy, high quality meals. They also have tons of different choices, 35 options, including calorie, smart, keto protein, plus vegan veggie, they really have something for everybody. I like them. My kids have have them, they liked them. So there are just tons of options. And they are super easy. If you're stressed out, and you want to just have something that's right there and you don't have to think about it. These are meals that can be ready in two minutes or less. And right now, if you head over to factor meals.com/pointless 50, and use code pointless 50, you can get 50% off your first box, and 20% off your next box. That's code pointless 50 for 50% off your first box, and 20% off your next box. So checkout factor, we've put the link and the code in the episode description. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw, and get to the pointless part of the show. What's the rarest thing you've ever seen or been to?
John Shull 31:28
This is gonna sound really lame. But the one that I that I've always been really, really proud of was i What year was it? I forget what year it was, I had to be 11 or 12. But I ran with the person who was carrying the Olympic torch through my city.
Nick VinZant 31:49
Oh, like you by yourself or like you in a giant crowd of a whole bunch of people. There
John Shull 31:54
was probably 20 of us. But basically, basically you signed up or whatever. And they picked names out of a hat, essentially. And there was like 1000 names I remember. and my Number got selected. So I got to run slash walk a mile with the person who was carrying the Olympic torch. And the worst part of this whole story is I don't even remember who it was at the moment.
Nick VinZant 32:20
Oh, did they like leave you behind? Or did they like wait for the group?
John Shull 32:24
Oh, no. Yeah, they I remember that they were not waiting. It was like you either ran with them. Or you were left behind.
Nick VinZant 32:30
I guess the rarest thing that I ever technically did was I was there for the last launch of the space shuttle. But even that I was kind of like, okay, like, there it goes. could have seen that on TV. I was there for work. I didn't go for personal reasons. That said, I probably would like to see a total eclipse before I die. And
John Shull 32:53
there will be another total lunar eclipse in 50 years will I will I be around? Probably not Well, probably not. But like, doesn't mean it's never gonna happen again. Like how rare is it? You know what I mean? Well, I
Nick VinZant 33:08
mean, in your lifetime, it's never gonna happen again.
John Shull 33:10
They say they said that in 2017. And here we are again. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 33:15
dude, I think that's just because you weren't paying attention. Like you didn't properly qualify exactly how it was supposed to be. They figured these things out. It's not like they suddenly just change their mind. Like, Oh, no. Turns out it's gonna happen again. Next year, we got the math wrong. Like you just weren't, you just weren't. I was I was operator error. Not there. Nah,
John Shull 33:33
nah, I'm not. Well, I'm almost in the path of totality. So I'll have a front view for it. I have my glasses and everything. What do you mean, almost in the path. Detroit is like 96% involved. If you go 45 minutes down, I 75 to Toledo. You're 100% involved are in the path of totality. You
Nick VinZant 33:56
should probably do that. Apparently. It's very, very different. We had a conversation with the guest who said that 96. But the difference between 96 to 90 to 100% 96% is like flying into the Denver Airport and saying you visited Denver 100% is actually going to Denver, it's huge difference. You should go check it out. It's right there. You should probably do it. Well,
John Shull 34:16
it's it's middle of the day on a Monday. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 34:19
you know if a once in a lifetime event was 45 minutes away from me, I wouldn't go either.
John Shull 34:23
You sound a little butter. You sound a little jealous.
Nick VinZant 34:26
I would go if it was 45 minutes away from me, I would go for that. That's you should go. That's to me is like okay, if you're within an hour if even if you're within three hours of it, I think that you should do it.
John Shull 34:40
I mean, the one that came in 2017 I'll say this was I'm gonna say the Detroit area was maybe in an I'm wrong, but we maybe weren't in the 30 to 40% totality region. And it was it was pretty weird having a go dark at like three o'clock in the afternoon so I can imagine it going pitch black At three o'clock in the afternoon, that will be pretty surreal.
Nick VinZant 35:03
Could you imagine if you were like living 1000s of years ago, or probably not even 1000s of years ago, but like 10s of 1000s of years ago, you'd be like, what
John Shull 35:14
is avidly? It would be mass hysteria, you would think, well, but if somebody actually brought up you would, you would it would go into mass hysteria, and then the sun would come back. minutes later, and people would be like, well, that's, that's weird. I guess everything's okay. Now. Oh,
Nick VinZant 35:29
that's a good question. How long do you think? Okay, imagine that we had no idea what an eclipse was. How many minutes? Do you think that it would take Earth to go into total chaos? I WHOLE EARTH experiences a total eclipse at the same time. We've never experienced it before. How many minutes? Does it take for the whole earth to be in chaos?
John Shull 35:57
I mean, I think within 30 seconds, because Oh, yeah, I mean, it would be like that. I just envision that scene out of Independence Day, where you know, those, the alien ships block out everything, and it's just dark, and everyone just starts freaking out?
Nick VinZant 36:13
I could, honestly, okay, this may be a little bit dramatic, but I could also see it happening. If we had no idea when an eclipse was and it lasted for five minutes, I could actually see the entire human race destroying itself in that amount of time. Like somebody being like, what's happening? Somebody shot the nukes. Okay, fire the nukes back like the whole civilization destroyed itself? Because of any clubs. That's why science is important.
John Shull 36:42
That's, that's quite dramatic. That's all it's I don't I don't think
Nick VinZant 36:45
you don't really, I think it could happen. I wouldn't be that surprised if you're over there. And you're mad at Zimbabwe. And you're like, This must be the Zimbabweans launch the news? Wow.
John Shull 36:59
That was just a random country. By the way. I'm sure he picked no disrespect to our Zimbabwe. I actually think every war would stop for those few minutes, because everybody would be looking up at the sky. Just an astonishment wondering, is this it? Like? Did the aliens launch a nuke? At Earth? And this is the final 30 seconds of my life.
Nick VinZant 37:22
What would be the first thing that you did if the sun disappeared in the middle of the day, and you didn't notice? Like the sun disappears?
John Shull 37:29
I mean, I would probably my cat, it's not so bad. My first initial reaction would probably be to go on social media, and see if someone has an answer that I may believe.
Nick VinZant 37:43
Oh, that's boring. I'm like running inside and grabbing every weapon I can find. And you're like, I'm gonna go do some research?
John Shull 37:52
Well, I mean, you know if you heard, I'm just saying I don't I don't think I would overreact. I mean, obviously, my first day, son, my first thing would be to try to figure out what's happening. And then when nobody else would have an answer, it would either be back or I would be on the phone trying to find out where my wife and kids are.
Nick VinZant 38:12
This is my this is my whole plan of attack. Actually, I have this all planned out. Now, the first thing I'm doing is getting whatever weapons that I have, which right now consists of a child's baseball bat and a golf club, then I'm going to the gas station to get gas then I'm going to the grocery store. See,
John Shull 38:29
though I think you're going to be too late on on the last two, you'll wait line at the at the gas station, and the grocery store will be will be insane. It would be looting everywhere. You're better off just hunkering down in your house for a couple of days, seeing if it's real or not. And then trying to start scavenging, I would think. Okay,
Nick VinZant 38:51
so then what would your strategy be of all mass chaos ensues? Are you going to try to wait out the initial violence in your house? Or are you going to go outside because I can see both ways that you like, you might just want to wait this out. And like, I'll let everybody take each other out and then all emerged in the shadows a week later. Well,
John Shull 39:08
Nick, let me tell you about my basement. No, seriously, though, I would probably I would see I'd have to see how much food we had. And if we could maintain. And then I would just hunker down that's this is what I would do in any, any form of any kind of apocalyptic event. Because I would just hunker down in my basement and see what happens. I mean, I don't want to put myself or family at risk, not knowing what it is. I don't hear it. Let me put it this way. I don't want to be one of the first to die, because I don't know what it is. Hmm.
Nick VinZant 39:48
I think that if I was going to live or die, right, like I wouldn't want to last a couple of weeks. I'd rather you to get wiped out like in the first part of it or survive. The whole thing is I don't want to make it like a month. on and then die.
John Shull 40:02
I at least want a shot. I don't want to be like, Oh no, the sun is gone, and get my car and get attacked by aliens or something because I'm on the road.
Nick VinZant 40:11
That's why I really think that if the sun disappeared for a couple of minutes and we didn't know anything about it, we would, we would be mass chaos. But anyway, let's move on. All right, let's
John Shull 40:22
give some shout outs to hopefully some lunar eclipse observers. will eclipse
Nick VinZant 40:27
it's a total eclipse and a lunar eclipse. You need to get this facts straight
John Shull 40:32
of my heart. I'm not even sure if that's correct.
Nick VinZant 40:34
That's why it's a total eclipse because it's even more important of saying about a lunar eclipse. people be like, Oh, it's not that big of a deal. All
John Shull 40:43
right. Let's see here. I don't know how we come back from that. But we'll try. Ryan Hermiston. Joe Moscow, Anthony Bach, Armand Mac, Allah, Alexis Thomas, Steve Ogryn, Andres Perez, Jr, Matteo Idris, Sean Hastings, Jacopo Hernandez and we're gonna end on just a good old good old name here but Paul Murdoch. Appreciate all of you for checking us out last week. Nick always throws out the social media cue so I won't bore you with him but you know we're at check us out.
Nick VinZant 41:20
I could use a few more Paul's in the world. Paul seems to be a solid name not a lot of Paul's could use a few more Paul's. I don't know if I know a single Paul who's a real jerk. I don't actually know if I'd seen I don't think I actually even know a single Paul. I don't know a single Paul. I have an aunt Paula. Shout out to him. Paula. Yeah. And
John Shull 41:43
Paula get it? Do you know Thomas
Nick VinZant 41:49
it's not time for that. I know that. How? Because we do other stuff before you always do this. You forget everything besides candle of the month like it's the most important thing in the entire world. People need it Nick people well, then they can we can beat out the algorithm by making them wait.
John Shull 42:07
I also have 10 topics, which okay, I that
Nick VinZant 42:11
first and then we do candle to the month. I'm sorry. I can organize show. I
John Shull 42:15
get excited. And I apologize. Sorry, if you haven't listened before, this is pretty simple. Just gonna bring up some topics next supposed to give a one word answer, but he talks a lot. So he'll,
Nick VinZant 42:25
how am I gonna give Okay, I'm gonna give you a one word answer. I'm going to give you a one word answer. And let's see where that goes.
John Shull 42:30
All right, you ready? Yeah. cock rings
Nick VinZant 42:39
I can't think of one single word. Know, myself personally. But like, I've actually never understood how that piercings in general areas. Like what that does. I've never really understood like doesn't, to me that just seems like that would be uncomfortable. Wherever you're getting. Like if it's a man, a woman everything in between. I've never understood how any of that seems to be like, what's that doing? Exactly?
John Shull 43:06
I think it's supposed to be enhanced the pleasure. I don't know. I don't have any piercings of that sort. So I can't I
Nick VinZant 43:17
all I'm gonna say about this is that I was in a situation recently that had nothing to do with sexual illness that I had to put a bandaid on
Dr. Benjamin Boe 43:25
my area. And it
Nick VinZant 43:29
was awful to take that off. So I couldn't imagine what was like. What were you doing? Like, I couldn't imagine. I could not imagine getting a piercing there. I think that would hurt so bad. All
John Shull 43:42
right. We'll just move on here. What about Beyonce becoming a country music superstar?
Nick VinZant 43:48
Confusion. I don't know what's going on there. Like what's the what's happening? Fake? Why is she suddenly all about country music? Has she always loved country music like I just there's something else happening? I don't know what it is. But I'm just waiting for whatever that thing is. I
John Shull 44:06
love all of the theoretical folks out there who are well, she's just trying to make all the money before you know as if she needs any more before the deadly stuff gets to her and Jay Z like
Nick VinZant 44:17
not enough money. I think she's all right. Yeah, I
John Shull 44:21
think she's just fine. Like, literally probably better than fine. Like I don't even know what the word after fine is. But she's more than that. Ah, alright, earthworms.
Nick VinZant 44:37
FM. I know that they're certainly very good. I know that we need them but I just don't like seeing worms. I don't like seeing worms or snakes or anything that kind of slid there's it seems like it's going to be slimy. I'd not my thing.
John Shull 44:50
loop. So when you go fishing, do you do you bait the hook with a worm? What do you do? I
Nick VinZant 44:58
go fly fishing. So Oh, I don't do that.
John Shull 45:00
Of course you do. I you know to story, I've never been fly fishing. Oh,
Nick VinZant 45:05
I think it's the superior form of fishing fishing to be honest with you. Well, that sounds I like I like fly fishing better and I like like fishing out of a boat or something like that. Let's see more my style inaccurate.
John Shull 45:15
Ah, all right, a couple of sports things here. So the three point line in one of the women's NCAA Tournament basketball games was the wrong length. They measured it wrong, and continue to play the game with it.
Nick VinZant 45:38
So amazing, just amazing. And amazing. Then they play like four games. And it wasn't like one was 23 feet six inches and the other was 23 feet four inches. It was like nine or 10 inches off, wasn't it? Yeah, it
John Shull 45:53
was almost a full foot. If I'm not mistaken.
Nick VinZant 45:56
That's amazing. And I think I saw like an overhead picture. And like you can really tell. That's just that is just proof that no one knows what they're doing. And no one is really paying attention that you can get like one of the fundamental aspects of the biggest tournament for that sport wrong, and nobody even notices for for games. That's like hundreds of 1000s of people didn't notice this.
John Shull 46:18
And I mean, the refs didn't notice. I mean, I yeah, I agree with you, wholeheartedly.
Nick VinZant 46:26
No, but like, whenever you if you ever feel dumb in life, don't because nobody else knows what's going on either. It's,
John Shull 46:33
it's definitely one of those things to where it's like, I mean, you had one job.
Nick VinZant 46:42
I can, but Okay, but what part of that is more surprising to you that somebody messed it up? Or that people took that long to notice?
John Shull 46:51
Definitely, that people took that long to notice. Because everybody, as we know, everyone is everyone else's biggest critic. And it's like, how did you? How did that go unnoticed by? I mean, firstly, should be the players, right? I mean, they've done that a million times they know where the line is.
Nick VinZant 47:08
Just go with the flow. Somebody's going with the flow. Yeah, I guess it's not that big of a deal. If you I mean, one half, you go one way, one half, you go the other way.
John Shull 47:18
Yeah, I guess. But like you said, I think you're right on that. It just goes to show that no one's really paying attention. No
Nick VinZant 47:25
one is really paying attention. Not even the people who are doing things professionally are really paying attention. What's amazing to me is that like, I wonder if one person did it, and like, when did they realize did they find out at the same time? Like did they find out when the news came on? Or did they know? And been like, shut up, Steve? Shut up, man.
John Shull 47:46
Well, watch would be a bunch of like, interns that did it. You know, it wasn't even like full on employees. It's
Nick VinZant 47:51
gotta be like somebody I wouldn't say a damn word.
John Shull 47:56
Oh, no, I would throw you under the bus in a heartbeat. I would not want to be that guy. No, that's his fault. And if you notice they haven't identified they have any I don't even think they've said like, oh, yeah, we've identified the floor crew that did it. I don't even think the
Nick VinZant 48:09
person to come forward and be like, it was me.
John Shull 48:14
My bad, y'all. Yeah, just Oh, okay. All right. Kim Kardashian.
Nick VinZant 48:22
Oh, I think that she has single handedly been one of the contributing factors to the downfall of society. Because I honestly think that she has been one of the contributing factors to the downfall of society. Because now you might write like the idea of being famous for nothing. And it's almost better, to be famous for nothing than it is to be famous for something. Because if you're famous for nothing, then you can also as you can get other people who want to be famous for really having no desire discernible talents to aspire to be you. And you can create confusion and controversy as to like, Why is this person important? And that fuels the entire algorithm, I think that she was one of the people who started the downfall of our society.
John Shull 49:07
I'm just gonna move on because that sounds fantastic. There was a new study that came out that said that in 22 states, you need at least a six figure income to afford a home just a regular house. And it's nothing new inflation is nothing new house prices are nothing new. But do you think we'll see a break in the market, the housing market soon?
Nick VinZant 49:33
I mean, I don't think that this kid like it can't like this math doesn't math at some point. Exactly. Like the math doesn't math. That's the thing that I don't understand about AI and all these companies are like, we're gonna replace jobs with AI. Well, then who's gonna buy your product like all this math doesn't math and I think that we are reaching some sort of crescendo in which the math has to start to equal out and big changes have to be made. That's a big political argument. I don't know why you're bringing politics into this show, quite frankly.
John Shull 49:59
Well, we're not we're gonna move on to this. Arctic Foxes.
Nick VinZant 50:03
All their pocket sweet. They are pretty good in the Arctic, you're completely white. That's awesome. I know that came out a certain way, right? Like, wait, what do you just say? Right but do you know what I mean? Like them have lived to fit their environment is the point that I was trying to make? Not that I love them because they're white man. All white animals are the best animal. I mean, I think if anyone out there sweet man, they're cool.
John Shull 50:30
And everyone's been listening this podcast for the six years we've been on. I think they know what you meant. Alright, last thing here if I asked you to tell me the difference between a beaver in Otter and a woodchuck? Could you do it?
Nick VinZant 50:45
Beaver has a flat tail. An otter doesn't have those kinds of teeth. And a woodchuck has two pointy teeth at the front. So
John Shull 50:56
I guess I'm not gonna put this person on blast, but I called an otter a river rat. And this person got really offended and I feel kind of cool feel kind of bad because his favorite animals an otter and I I always thought otters were river rats, but I guess not.
Nick VinZant 51:13
No, dude. Just an otter. Or who gets that offended about it? I would they go there again to fight you about it. Like how dare you insult an auditor?
John Shull 51:23
You know, I've I've been in some some things before but never over. I don't think I'd ever get into a fight over and otter.
Nick VinZant 51:30
What's the dumbest thing that you would say not with a real inner relationship because you fight over some things that are like on the face of it is pretty stupid, but there's usually underlying issues there. So the dumbest thing you've ever almost gotten in a fight? Okay.
John Shull 51:45
Um this is pretty this is actually pretty sad. I used to get really territorial on the dance floor. And it go on and if you know if me and I'll call them my boys, but whatever my crew if someone tried to intervene, or like dance they're drunk ass into the into it. I would. I wouldn't get offended. It like start getting all just weird and an angry. I mean, it's stupid.
Nick VinZant 52:16
You've been fighting over territory on the dance floor.
John Shull 52:19
I mean, well,
Nick VinZant 52:21
you know, first of all good.
John Shull 52:22
Sometimes there were ladies involved too. You know, you don't.
Nick VinZant 52:26
You were worried about somebody cutting you know, young girl. Most
John Shull 52:29
times It wasn't even my girl. I was just the guy that was dancing alone while the other guys and girls I was laughing.
Nick VinZant 52:35
Oh, dance floor police. Yeah, like I think you should bring back that John. I gotta stick out your claim on the dance floor man.
John Shull 52:43
I know these young kids they don't know what that's about and know what they don't know. You
Nick VinZant 52:47
got to set a tone. They have no idea how to set a tone. Okay, I don't really I mean that's dumb, but like not dumb at the same time. Like if you're going to have a dumb reason that's a good dumb reason.
John Shull 52:59
I mean, it's definitely it's definitely dumb to get into a fight over I would say for sure. It
Nick VinZant 53:05
is you imagine two people yelling at each other he got too close to me on the dance floor. I'm willing you know he's just in my territory. Right okay do
John Shull 53:16
I want I one time tried to spear one of my best friends on the other side of the dance floor because I thought he was dancing with someone I wanted to dance with it's a it's a dangerous place the dance floor so wow
Nick VinZant 53:27
man way to take something that's supposed to be happy and make it awful for everybody.
John Shull 53:31
Good job that known to do that I guess from time to time all right. All
Nick VinZant 53:36
right. Are you ready? No,
John Shull 53:38
I don't really want to go from five deaths for police each
Nick VinZant 53:41
time because the outlaw candle God has sewer Rides Again candle of the month.
John Shull 53:56
I just feel okay, well I do love this segment. So let's see. We're gonna head to joy Lane farm.com I believe they're a company I have not featured on the show before. It's springtime. As we all know most places at least in the northern hemisphere starting to the flower are starting to come out. The snow is melting away in the senses and smells are in abundance. So in saying that, check out Joy Lane farm. Make sure you grab yourself a soy candle of the lavender fragrance. Woohoo. Okay, go on. You know it's it's a one wick candle. I don't necessarily like this, but it literally tells you the burn time or the expected burn time on the outside. I was actually turned on to this company by once again somebody in my personal life that listens to this that had no idea that I like candles. or that I had a title. So anyways, they have all other kinds of products that seem cool. I'll check them out probably in the near future but check out the lavender soy candle. It's, it's, it is lavender II obviously very strong and it's the kind of it's the kind of scent that you'll when you walk into your house. It stays. It's gonna stay until the candles burned. And it's good because lavender is a fantastic smell. So yeah, Joy Lane farm. Lavender soy candle, the 10 ouncer it's gonna run you about 22 bucks plus shipping. But yeah, it's I enjoyed it. I enjoy it. But I burned I burned it in about it said Now this only thing said about 45 hours. I burned it in about a day and a half, but it was continually burning. So like I didn't blow it out or anything and fantastic. And you just leave
Nick VinZant 55:57
it burning overnight.
John Shull 55:59
I do I do I actually save you. Well, I agree with you. But until my house burns down oh boy. Knock on wood. There. There's something to me. That is fantastic about waking up to a great scent. Well, for me, it's waking up to the scent. The fragrance that just really can set me off in a good mood. Okay,
Nick VinZant 56:24
well just make sure you don't wake up to the scent of fire in your house. Right? That's probably going to be like, Oh, I really like to wake up to this set. Do you like to wake up alive?
John Shull 56:35
There is no I do better excuse I would love to give the fire department when they asked me what happened. I was testing out a new candle for my podcast. And it burned my house down
Nick VinZant 56:47
if god Are you the same man who used to fight people on the dance floor.
John Shull 56:52
I remember you Oh God, Jesus, God.
Nick VinZant 56:55
Remember, this is the kid who passed out trying to run after the Olympic torch 20 steps and then fell down.
John Shull 57:03
Fire Department had to transport him to the hospital. So you ready for our time? I am I am actually fairly excited about this one. Okay, so
Nick VinZant 57:12
our top five is top five scariest things in space. We're not talking about individual objects or an in depth analysis of certain planets. We're just talking about the top five space related things that scare us to number five.
John Shull 57:25
So my number five, I feel like I had to get the boring one out of the way. But I'm gonna put the fact that there is like no gravity. You go into space, you're fucked. If you're not in a spacesuit. Like you're, you know, you are just screwed. Oh,
Nick VinZant 57:40
yeah. Yeah. Like, I,
John Shull 57:44
I've wondered that sometimes like that, like flying in an airplane. And I'm thinking like, Oh, God, I'm gonna go on the I'm just gonna turn to an ice cube. Well, in space, not only do you turn into an ice cube, but you become like the size of a quarter.
Nick VinZant 57:58
So, you know, it's always really creeped me out is the idea that there's not like a roof on the earth, right? Like, there's not like anything above us. If gravity just turned off, we would just go floating out into space. Like there's nothing that stops you, you go outside of your house, there is nothing between you and just going up into space. Like if gravity went off, there you go. And there's nothing you can do about it. Not like you're not going to bump into the ceiling or anything. There's nothing to grind. Like there. You're off into space. Think about that. Next time you walk outside and look up. There is nothing between you and endless darkness.
John Shull 58:36
Wow, that is actually kind of that that is terrifying. That's
Nick VinZant 58:40
terrifying, right? If you think about that, like by that there is nothing that I'm just going to make that my number five. There is nothing between you and just going off into space. There's not like a ceiling up there. Or like a place that you would just bump into before you went into space. Like you're just going.
John Shull 59:03
Yeah, just That's crazy to me. Just yeah, like years gone. Like you're just just gone until you freeze to death and then get decompressed into a fucking pretzel.
Nick VinZant 59:15
I think you would actually suffocate first. You think about Yeah,
John Shull 59:19
I mean, I mean, probably but freezing to death sound better, if there isn't such a thing. Alright, my number four. I'm not necessarily afraid of these. But the thought of them scares me because I have no idea what the hell they are. And they are black holes.
Nick VinZant 59:37
Oh, you have black holes in number four.
John Shull 59:40
I do why? My number one I think you're gonna give me shit for but when I do when I describe it, it's gonna make sense. But yeah, my number four is black holes.
Nick VinZant 59:51
My number four is solar storms. Because if one of those things not knocks out our technology, we're going right Like back to like the Stone Age, right? Like, if a solar storm knocks out all of our technology somehow, it's it's global chaos, and it's not gonna end well at all. Or like we're not going to handle this peacefully or, like, gentlemen
John Shull 1:00:14
are like these random satellites Russia sends into space that we don't know what's in them. Unless I'm not saying anything about Russia. So don't take that that way. But like, when people are aspiring shit in the space, who knows what's in there?
Nick VinZant 1:00:26
Oh, I would put set I'm satellites is on my honorable mention, because like, who knows what's up? There? I am. Who knows what watching you right now? Yeah,
John Shull 1:00:35
I have space junk. Like, if if you base jokes, good. My wife has a app that shows you like what's in the sky. And at any given time, there's 10 to 20. You know, like booster, things floating around or satellites? It's like if those decide to crash down those are big ass things. Like,
Nick VinZant 1:00:56
why did she have an app? Is she worried about this? Or was it just had an app?
John Shull 1:01:00
Don't you remember during the pandemic or pandemic dates? We go into our backyard and stargaze and then look into each other's eyes and drink lavender tea.
Nick VinZant 1:01:11
What was your name for each other again? What are your pet names?
John Shull 1:01:16
Haba and Wahba. Anyways, Hellboy and Walmart.
Nick VinZant 1:01:22
stars together. Yeah, born wobble out there.
John Shull 1:01:25
Yeah, man. Anyways, that let's just move on from that. Is it? What's
Nick VinZant 1:01:30
your what's your number? What number are we?
John Shull 1:01:32
I think we're on my number three now. Okay. All right. And so this isn't. This is I guess, fictional space. But space horror movies are my number through. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 1:01:48
I can't watch horror movies. But I remember like the sphere, sphere or something like that event horizon. Oh, those are terrifying in space horror movies are scary. I mean,
John Shull 1:02:01
what's it? I think they're scary, because yes, they're fictional. But they could not they could be real. Like, we have no idea these things can actually exist somewhere.
Nick VinZant 1:02:09
Oh, yeah. That's the problem, right? Like, we don't know that aliens is not. True story fucking real. I mean, we do. But like, we don't know that there's not something worse than aliens out there. For sure. You might be. My number three is black holes. I would I've always been scared like the idea of being sucked into a black hole.
John Shull 1:02:28
Well, in the fact that I swear, every other week. It's like, oh, scientists find a black hole, or a black hole is opened. I always wondered, like, what happens when a black hole opens? Like, what does it eat? Or what happens to it?
Nick VinZant 1:02:42
Everything? I don't know me. That's what I like the mysteries of the universe. I don't think we're going to find out. What are you and I aren't going to figure it out? What have you accidentally, like discovered it? Like you were just walking past MIT or Harvard? And you were like, Oh, well, if you just put a one there. And they're like, oh, that's all you had to do. All we needed was that is my philosophy about science as well that they don't have enough dumb guys. There needs to be a dumb guy there to just be like, alright, if you just did that? Well,
John Shull 1:03:14
I do think smart people sometimes are smart themselves. And yeah, you just need an idiot to be like, No, actually, a plus b plus c is D, but it's
Nick VinZant 1:03:25
just some crazy ass in there with like ridiculous ideas. Alright, so you need my number. Are you on? My
John Shull 1:03:32
number two? Is that and this is the boring one, I guess is aliens. Just aliens in general? Because I'm sure I'm sure there's life somewhere. There has to be right. I mean, we are like a point. 00 1% They say of whatever's out there. So there's by far aliens. I just don't know anything. I don't know anything about
Nick VinZant 1:03:57
right. Aliens is also my number two, but I'm not sure if I'm more scared of aliens or more scared of the idea that there might not be aliens.
John Shull 1:04:07
Well, I I think there are aliens, but I think that term is loosely like I would loosely define it. Like I don't think they're green people. But I do think like, you know, we live in a multi dimensional universe. Like I think you and I are somewhere else doing the same thing right now talking to all these people. And they're listening. And it's happening over multiple time. timeframes. Like time things I don't know, huh? Okay, I
Nick VinZant 1:04:37
don't even want to go into that. That's fine. Let's just not do like I wanted to have this whole conversation. I don't want to peel back the lead the onions of the layers of onion of John Shaw that far to like, I don't even know what I believe in that kind of stuff. Like whatever man like my life hasn't changed and I'm still going to work tomorrow. Like, there is no other life on earth or Are there is no other life in the universe and we live in a multiverse like, well, do I still have to work on Tuesday? Yeah,
John Shull 1:05:06
but what if you didn't have to work in this whole entire time? We've just been poisoned to do that. I don't know. Anyway, never. What's your number two?
Nick VinZant 1:05:15
Well, yeah, don't do it. I'm not going down that way. My number two is aliens. We just talked about it. What's your number one? Okay, question.
John Shull 1:05:21
So my number one, and like I said, it's not gonna sound scary, but it absolutely is. And that's detecting a signal from space. Like a radio signal, some kind of sound. There's been a few of them in the past, to where different observatories have have gotten in, and they've been like, oh, this sound has been traveling for like the last 70,000 years or 700 years, we have no idea where it could come from.
Nick VinZant 1:05:50
Hmm, okay. I agree with that. I feel like the only reason I have that slight response to is I kind of feel like that's aliens a little bit, but it's just me splitting hairs. My number one is the fact that all of its real. Like, all of this crazy stuff that we hear about is real. And we're just scratching the surface. And there might be even more crazy stuff out there. Like, this is just the stuff that we know now.
John Shull 1:06:15
I think I don't even think we've discovered our own planet. I think if you were to go in dig into the ocean, you would unearth things. I think if you were to dig into Antarctica, you would on Earth things. The point I'm trying to make is the earth or is so big itself and we know so little. We're never going to know what's out there. Never unless it comes to us. Which so far, it hasn't that we know of.
Nick VinZant 1:06:42
Could you just imagine if aliens like came tomorrow? Like we have no way there's no like, like, here they are, like tomorrow morning.
John Shull 1:06:52
Like what if the total lunar eclipse is like their signal?
Nick VinZant 1:06:58
And they just, they show up? Like, oh, there's an eclipse like, what's that? Yeah, that would be crazy. Man. That's the crazy thing about life. It can change so dramatically so quickly.
John Shull 1:07:12
That Hold on, it's precious. precious
Nick VinZant 1:07:14
life is precious. Watching your honor mentioned you have anything. So
John Shull 1:07:18
kinda like your number one, I just put the word the unknown. Because like, we just don't know better way to phrase it. We just don't know. Right? We think we know we have some snippets of what could be there. We know something's there, but we don't know what it is. And then I put down asteroids, solar flares. And that was it for my honorable mention.
Nick VinZant 1:07:40
I guess that would be my real number one is the size of it. Like how does this How is this possible? Like that's it's such a thing that doesn't even come I can't even comprehend that like the size of everything is what scares me the most about it. I can only look up at the stars for like five minutes before I start to just freak out. Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it really helps us out and let us know what you think are the scariest things in space. To me, it's just the unknown and the size. Like what's out there? It's cool, but kind of scary.
There have been five Mass Extinctions in Earth’s history and right now, we might be in the middle of a sixth. Paleontologist Dr. Michael Benton studies Mass Extinction events. We talk the history of mass extinctions, what causes mass extinction and if humans will survive the next one. Then, we countdown a special “touchy” Top 5.
Dr. Michael Benton: 01:24
Pointless: 35:40
Top 5: 55:28
Nick VinZant 0:13
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, mass extinctions, and human touch, only
Dr. Michael Benton 0:23
about five or 10% of species survive. So that was really huge. And the mass extinction usually is so sudden, and unpredictable. It's not something that has ever been experienced before. So there's no opportunity for a kind of learning or adaptation. It's amazing, you know, to go to a shop, or to go to locations in North America, where you can put your finger on the end of the dinosaurs.
Nick VinZant 0:51
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest, because he studies mass extinctions. Why they happen when they happen, and why certain species survive. This is paleontologist, Dr. Michael Benton. When we look at mass extinctions, like what qualifies something as a mass extinction,
Dr. Michael Benton 1:29
I think it's important to realize that species don't live forever. So actually, each species lives for maybe a million years. And that includes humans, Homo sapiens, T Rex, but a mass extinction means that there's a whole lot of species going right at the same time. And the most famous one, of course, was when all the dinosaurs disappeared, or should I say the final dinosaurs? I mean, dinosaurs had been on the earth for 150 million years. So they weren't all living side by side. But a mass extinction is where there's an unusually large number of species disappearing at the same time. And not just one group like dinosaurs, but across everything, you know. So normally, they're kind of ecologically broad. So marine creatures, creatures on land, plants, etc, etc.
Nick VinZant 2:19
Are we in one now? Well, yes, and
Dr. Michael Benton 2:23
no. I mean, I think people commonly say yes, if we allow that a mass extinction could last over a few 100 years, a few 1000 years. You know, we need to scale what's happening at the present time back towards the past. But certainly some of the estimates would say we're pretty near it.
Nick VinZant 2:42
If we're in one, right, like, I guess the thing that question that would be then Okay, so if we're in one, it doesn't seem too bad.
Dr. Michael Benton 2:49
Yeah, this is because we're each person is only aware of what's happening in their particular place. And many commentators like you and me, we're living in urban settings. And so the living creatures we see might be grass and the tropics is where biodiversity is highest. And, you know, the, the rainforests in Brazil, in Indonesia, the coral reefs in tropical areas, they're buzzing with life, you know, in one field of view, you're not just going to see five species, you know, I look out my window, I can't really see anything, I can see an oak tree and a bit of grass and people and a dog. So that's four species. But if I was to move to a tropical reef or or the Brazilian rainforest, I could maybe see 100 species in one view. And then you see the sort of creeping threat of reduction of those forests or of the coral reefs and you think, yeah, this is, something's happening here.
Nick VinZant 3:54
My idea was kind of to run through the five big ones that have happened, but I'm going to absolutely butcher the names of them that I looked up. Feel free to be like, that's not even close, buddy. The order dough Vinci
Dr. Michael Benton 4:07
in Ordovician Not bad, not bad. So yeah, do you want to go through the big five? And I can? Yeah, so the way we talk about mass extinctions, paleontologists, the people who study fossils have recognized that there were these events and they're not in dispute, people accept these. But it's important to note that there are many other events. So the club this, this top club of the Big Five, could be joined, arguably by another four or five according to different people. So the Ordovician was one that it it was only observed in the oceans because there wasn't any life on land, really. There are big changes in the major beasts on the ocean floor. And it seems to be associated with a kind of freezing event. So this is Over 400 million years ago, the next one was in the late Devonian, and there were definite extinctions that we would notice like losses of armored fish, they were amazing fish in the earlier part of the Devonian, and they had heavy armor on the outside, there's nothing living really like them. And there are lots of changes of plants and so on on land. And that seems to be, well, it was in two parts, but one of them seems to be associated with big volcanic eruptions. And then two 50 million years ago was the really big one at the end of the Permian. And we identified as really big, because something like only about five or 10% of species survive. So that was really huge. All of the others, about 50% of species survived, but 5%, that's one in 20. And that's as near as Damn it to, you know, complete extinction of everything. And that was, that was the end of lots and lots of marine creatures that have been around for a long time, the corals, the reefs disappeared, or on land, the forests disappeared. So it's not just that you're losing species, you're kind of losing a whole habitat, a whole system. And like on the earth today, forests are really important as places for life. And in the oceans, of course, reefs are really important. So they went. And we can see the scale, the scale of it, excuse me, because it took 10 million years for them to rebuild. And then, at the end of the Triassic 50 200 million years ago, there was a further extinction event that affected life in the oceans and on land. And sometimes you you mark an extinction event by opportunity. And at this point, the dinosaurs took off. So the other groups had been wiped out, the dinosaurs were already there, they'd been doing quite well, but they're not really taken over, excuse me, and they took over completely. And then finally, at the end of the Cretaceous, the famous one that everybody knows about 66 million years ago, disappearance of the dinosaurs, also the pterosaurs, the flying reptiles, the marine reptiles, things like please your sores. Also Ammonites, if anybody is a fossil collector, the Ammonites, so these kiled fossils that are very common in the Jurassic, and Cretaceous they went, and lots of other things. And it's also marked by opportunity, because the loss of the dinosaurs enabled the rise of the mammals and the loss of various of these marine creatures, enabled the rise of modern time sharks and various other things like that. And the main feature that marks them out is that life was disappearing in all habitats, you know, in the oceans and on land?
Nick VinZant 7:52
Do we kind of ultimately bounce back in the sense that I'll just put easy numbers, right, like, Okay, we had 100 species before, had a mass extinction, we come back to having 100 species again, or have we like, fundamentally lost something each time one of these
Dr. Michael Benton 8:09
happens that life bounces back. And I think the way to think about it is if you think of an ecosystem, which is like the food, wherever, who eats who and all the different species that are living together in some sort of relationship, if you delete species at different points, normally something of the structure remains and other species will evolve to do whatever it is, you know, if you kill off the animal that specializes in eating a particular kind of plant, something else will take it over and keep the overall shape of the ecosystem. So we normally find that the before and after numbers are about the same life will recover.
Nick VinZant 8:53
Is there something that you would say that they all had in common, the
Dr. Michael Benton 8:57
ones that go extinct? People look for this because you would think that so you might think of a mass extinction as a kind of clear out of a, you know, like something in human history that you you have a massive catastrophe, and all the old fashioned stuff disappears, and everything gets better. Normally, it's not like that, because evolution is acting all the time. So species in the wild are acting on each other. And the competition for food or predator prey relationships, keep all the organisms in a sense on their toes. So they're evolving, they're evolving. They're responding to changing climates, blah, blah, blah. And the mass extinction usually is so sudden and unpredictable. It's not something that has ever been experienced before. So there's no opportunity for a kind of learning or adaptation and it may be unexpected So the comparison was Could it be that the weak organisms go, and the strong creatures live? Actually, what seems to be happening is it's more like what David Rob great evolution has said, was the field of bullets. And the analogy he gave was the First World War, where you have all these soldiers lined up in the trenches. And the order when the whistle is blown, they climb out of the trenches and run towards the enemy with their machine guns, who gets killed, no way of knowing. Because, you know, even if you are, if you're strong and physically fit, and you've, you've had a good diet, and you're highly intelligent, you're just as likely to be moan down as the guy down the road, who is poorly fed, smokes, like a chimney is completely hopeless. And, and it seems to be more like that. That is, unlike normal natural selection is the field of bullets, everything is equally at risk.
Nick VinZant 11:01
You just kind of get you just get lucky and
Dr. Michael Benton 11:05
more or less. Yes. And I think the features that make you lucky, I mean, there are certain there are a small number of things that are worth knowing. Number one, don't be too big, because big things need a load of food, and they need a big area to forage. And small population size. Number two, be worldwide live everywhere. Because if you only live in one part of the world, there's less chance that some population might survive somewhere or other. And I guess number three is have a fairly generalized diet, you know, don't be too fussy about your food.
Nick VinZant 11:39
I feel like we got those, like we those a little bit. Humans
Dr. Michael Benton 11:42
take a lot of the boxes, and there's lots of us and so, but we're quite big in the normal run of things better to be cockroach sized.
Nick VinZant 11:51
Like, I mean, is this a controversial field in the sense that like, there's disagreement about it? Or is this like, no, that we got this buttoned up?
Dr. Michael Benton 11:59
There's not disagreement about the events, I think people accept Yeah, you know, the evidence is so clear and overwhelming. And what do I mean by the evidence, there are many places in the world where there are a sector, there are rock successions, piles of rocks that span across these intervals of time. And the best section is in China at a location called Mei Shan, which is a kind of old quarry, and all the way up to a certain point, the rock is just stuffed full of fossils. And then at a certain level, the rock color turns much more black. And that's a general indication of the level of oxygen going down, because there's a lot of organic stuff being black, which is not being eaten, because normally, any organic matter on the ocean floor is eaten by something, there's all kinds of creatures moving around. And if suddenly, a lot of that is being preserved, that means loss of oxygen, and no fossils. So you can actually put your finger on the point, and above the level, almost nothing, and you only find maybe one or two species, these are the survivors. And that's how we talk about this, this sort of loss of 90%, or 95%, is based on you know, it's based on actual counting in actual locations. And
Nick VinZant 13:15
kind of a personal level, like when you see those sections, right, like what goes through your head, when you see one of those.
Dr. Michael Benton 13:22
It's amazing, you know, to go to me, Shawn, or to go to locations in North America, where you can put your finger on the end of the dinosaurs, here we are in this location in Montana, Kansas, or whatever. This is the point at which the dinosaurs disappear. And that's what gets young people excited about a lot of this kind of paleontology and geology. It's not all theory, you can actually see it and put your finger on it.
Nick VinZant 13:52
Like what would the world kind of those times be like? Because if I'm imagining a mass extinction, like I'm kind of imagining like a hellscape on Earth, you know, disaster movies, but would it be so unrecognizable to us?
Dr. Michael Benton 14:06
Probably not. I mean, the because a lot of the action is happening in the atmosphere. So I think for the end of the dinosaurs, yes, we would have seen a lot of really shocking stuff. So I'll tell you what it was like you're standing somewhere in modern, you're standing somewhere in North America, or Europe or whatever. Somewhere within reach of this, the impact happened in the Caribbean, on the Yucatan peninsula of Mexico. At that time, sea levels were much higher. And so this area was was underwater. The meteorite hits it is huge. It was many miles across it penetrated deep into the Earth's crust. And then the equal and opposite reaction is an enormous volume. millions of tonnes of rock and dust come back up, because they react to that huge impact. And the major pieces of rock would fall back, all around the crater. The crater is something like it's more than 100 miles across 150 kilometers, something like that. So it is huge. And the crater is formed partially from the rock falling back, as well as from that excavation process. But a large amount of the material going up is dust. And that goes high in the atmosphere and resides it doesn't fall back immediately because it is dust. And that encircles the earth, something like half an inch thick of dust was in the upper atmosphere, which was enough to cut out the light of the sun. And so on the ground anywhere in the world, you would have felt that you would have seen the lack of sun, and you would have felt the cold. And then more immediately close to it almost as from Mexico as far as the US Canadian border. Within minutes of the impact within hours of the impact, I should say, there will be a pattering of small glass beads. The beads are just about a millimeter in size, very tiny, you can see them but they're there at the limit. And they might be a little bit hot that by this point, they've flown them out two or 3000 Miles kilometers from the impact side. So they're probably quite cool. And what they are is melt product. So the two things that happen when the meteorite hits are I say meteorite asteroid, the same thing really a big rock. When the asteroid hits, it creates high pressure and high temperature. So there's a great deal of melting. So large blocks are not melted, they fall back, smaller stuff can be melted and fly into the sky. And it falls within that radius into Brazil up to the Canadian border across just into Europe. But because the Atlantic was not as wide down as it is now. And these are these are mold, these are melted from the impact side. And so they don't have the chemistry of volcanic lava. They have the chemical components of limestone, essentially, which is which is weird. At the same time a heatwave would radiate out from the crater in all dimensions. And this would be partly caused by the energy of the impact. And that would burn up the forests and burn up anything in its way. I don't know how far it would have gone wouldn't progress all around the world, but it might have progressed a few 100 or even 1000 miles away from the crater. So there's an awful lot of physical stuff going on, you know, black sky cold, if you're within reach of it, you'd be aware of the material falling back to Earth. But all around the world, even on the opposite side of the world, you know, in what is now China, what is now Australia, whatever it us, you'd be very aware of something very, very horrible, nasty going on, and creatures would be dying everywhere. A lot of it isn't instant, the plants may die because of cold. They'll die eventually because of the lack of daylight. But that would take a little bit longer.
Nick VinZant 18:22
And in some of the other ones that weren't maybe just because of that direct kind of immediate cause. Would it have been really different? Like? Yeah, I
Dr. Michael Benton 18:31
think all the other events wouldn't have seen so immediately, dramatically, amazingly apocalyptic. All the other ones that I mentioned, are caused, it seems by earthbound processes, not by some extraterrestrial thing. And the most of them are, most of them are explained by volcanic eruption. And so this has become clearer in the last 10 or 20 years that and they're called hyper thermals meaning very high temperature, because that's the key feature. I should have stressed that with the impact you actually get cooling. So it's important to bear in mind that that at the end of the dinosaurs is associated with lowering temperature because of the blacking out of the sun. But when it's a volcanic cause event is warming mainly. And this is because of the gases. So of course we think of volcanoes you don't want to get too close to an erupting volcano because you get washed out you'll get swept away in molten lava. Well, yeah, of course. And with a big volcanic eruption that would have a big effect, but not worldwide. The worldwide effects come from the gases that come out of the volcano and there are multiple kinds of gases come out of all volcanoes. Some of them like sulfur dioxide has a quick effect it has a cooling effect. But when sulfur dioxide mixes with water and oxygen in the atmosphere, it puts uses sulfuric acid which isn't good. And it has a bad effect not only in killing the trees, but it leeches away nutrients from the soil. And so that part of forests that are may be affected by acid rain can stay blasted and bleak for centuries because it takes a long time for the soil to redevelop and acquire the minerals that are needed by the plants and so on. But when you have a volcanic eruption on a global scale, but let me reword that, when you have a huge volcanic eruption, that it can actually have effects over the whole whole of the earth. And most of those effects are partly from the sulfur dioxide, but partly from the greenhouse gases. And there's a whole bunch of greenhouse gases that come out of volcanoes, particularly carbon dioxide, but also methane, and water vapor. And all of these greenhouse gases have a warming effect. And although the sulfur dioxide has a cooling effect, it's fairly transient, that's quick that that's done. And the warming effects can last for much longer, not not just a few days, they can last for months. So this is what is happening, the two things combined, give you the killing effects of the hyperthermal. The heating, the warming is the key thing coupled with acid rain. So this is what was happening at the end of the Permian. And at the end of the Triassic, and probably at the end of the Devonian, at least those other big five. And the killing then on land is because the trees and other plants are killed by the acid rain, the warming has a huge effect, because if you raise the temperature by five degrees, 10 degrees, life can't survive that, you know, we think that many, many plants and animals are happy at hot temperatures, well, not really. Anything above 30 C is really not acceptable 35. And so life will move. But then they get crowded because you're clearing out the very diverse tropics, which have much more life in them than any other part of the world. And in the oceans, the main effect is from high temperature and acid, the acid will acidify the waters. And a lot of marine animals have shells that are made of calcium carbonate. So things like mollusks, shellfish, and even crabs and lobsters, their shell is made of calcium carbonate, and many others and the acid will just eat away at that and they can't really survive. So how long it would all take to kill we don't know. But the nonetheless, the killing effects of huge volcanic eruptions are deadly. And they've happened many times.
Nick VinZant 22:53
How come it hasn't happened for so long, though? Or at least another big one? I mean, it seemed like it was kind of close together. And now it's been? Well,
Dr. Michael Benton 23:01
not really. I mean, if the first one was, you know, between three and 400,000,003 50 million years ago as the end Devonian 250 266. So they're spaced apart by 50 or 100 million years. So another one could come along, anytime. People used to think there was a kind of regular pattern that we've Zoia, there's one of these every 30 million years, we can kind of predict, you know, the last one was whatever, 16 million small one. The next one is going to be 9 million 10 million years in the future. But I don't think there's a good evidence for a regular repeat.
Nick VinZant 23:42
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Indeed, yeah.
Are you more surprised by life's fragility or ability to endure?
Dr. Michael Benton 23:52
That's a fantastic question. No, I don't know how to answer it. Really? I think you can answer it both ways. Somehow, I think you can say Well, life is amazingly resilient, that you know, many of the plants and animals we see around on Earth today have been on earth for a very long time, hundreds, 1000s and millions of years. And yet, it just takes a yet it just takes something like one of these volcanic eruptions on the scale I was mentioning, to have that devastating effect. And of course, we can see the impacts of human activity, showing how fragile nature can be. So, you know, I can't really give a single straight answer to that, but it's a great question.
Nick VinZant 24:36
Domino are all at once and I think what they mean by that, is it usually kind of, okay, it affects this thing. And then that thing follows through and then it creates all this or is it like get everybody all at once?
Dr. Michael Benton 24:49
I think the Hypertherm also the majority of mass extinctions were dominant, because I think that certain species would go quickly. For the ones that were most affected, in the part of the world that is most affected, which is a little what we see today that around the equator, think of Africa, the Sahara Desert, because of global warming, Thisara desert is getting bigger. And therefore species that live in and around the desert are going to be hit first. And then I think consequences would flow out. And I think that's the same with most of the past extinctions. The only difference being the end Cretaceous the impact, that was much more instantaneous. I think that was like, all done within a week. You know, it's not like all done within an hour. Because the reverberations, the movement of dust, and so on takes days, maybe a week.
Nick VinZant 25:47
Oh, it was that fast. The
Dr. Michael Benton 25:51
the dust in the upper atmosphere that might just stuck around for months, and kept the earth black. But I think the worst of it would be over in a week, would
Nick VinZant 26:01
we have survived any of them? We
Dr. Michael Benton 26:03
might have done in certain parts of the world. But whether we're allowed our technology or not, if we had none of our technology, probably not. organism,
Nick VinZant 26:14
you miss the most organism, you missed the least. And I think what they mean by that, in the sense is like, Oh, we lost this. And this thing was really cool. Versus Oh, we lost that. And that was probably really good for us.
Dr. Michael Benton 26:29
That's a difficult one to answer, because I think everybody would have a different opinion. I love dinosaurs. So I'm very sorry, we lost the dinosaurs. But then I don't want them back. You know, we've seen the Jurassic Park movies. You think why do they persist? You know, come on, this is the most stupid thing in the world. Having tea racks wandering around with not be good, I don't think what would you what would one regard as a species, we can do that that's a terrible thing to have to even try to answer, I think. I think most people would respond and say every species has equal value, even though we may not much like the mosquito or the rattlesnake. Nonetheless, you know, we would say they have a beauty, they have something about them. And many would say, Let's wipe out all the rattlesnakes, it will make people happy. But it's not for us to judge.
Nick VinZant 27:24
The species ever go extinct just because they're dumb.
Dr. Michael Benton 27:28
I think, I suppose you could point to the something that we see in, we've seen in historical time that when people first went to certain islands that had never had human beings on them before. A lot of the species, the animals were naive, not exactly dumb, but they're naive in the sense they didn't run away. They were just curious. And we've all read about or seen stories of, I don't know, penguins, you know, you go to Antarctica, the penguins are curious, they'll come up and have a look, even though you might shoot them. And in the early days, probably people did shoot them. And I hope nowadays people would not, but nonetheless. And I suppose the story of the dodo people arrive on the island, they see this dumb looking bird wandering about it couldn't fly, it didn't need to. And it didn't need to run away because there were no predators until humans arrived. And then we go around, hitting them on the head with with sticks and shooting them. And you could say they're dumb. But they're just dumb because of our bad behavior. And presumably, without us they were doing just fine. What
Nick VinZant 28:38
animal of today animal organism today, do you think is going to be the best survivor?
Dr. Michael Benton 28:43
I think I would just give the usual answer, which would be the cockroach. And the the argument there is they can kind of live anywhere. They're all over the world. They've adapted to humans very well. That's why we see them so much. They're quite small. They're huge, you know, millions and millions of them. And I think they're kind of difficult to kill. If you've had cockroaches in your house, you can't stomp on them. They're quite thin and they seem to survive. You want to make a special effort to kill them. So they would do well. Rats and mice I think would do very well because they kind of live everywhere. And all of those beasts you know, they're willing to eat anything that they'll eat plants will eat other animals that eat decaying stuff. They'll eat paper, though, seems to survive on almost anything.
Nick VinZant 29:33
Last one, kind of the big one, I guess. Do you think that we survive?
Dr. Michael Benton 29:38
I think the most people are optimistic and would say that we will find a way. And it's easy to be loud and shouty about these topics, but it's better to reflect and I think we can we can survive because we can I hope optimistically that decision makers will accept that there are certain changes to human behavior that would be good for the the earth and would slow down some of the changes that are happening. But of course, the other argument would be we have a certain amount of ingenuity, we have technology. So if Armageddon faces us, and we rather hope it does not, you know, that we can somehow find a better way to live in harmony with the wonders of the earth. But even if Armageddon hits us, we have technology, I'd be a little more cautious about that. Because of course, people, it's easy for people who are not in the field to think Oh, yes, those, those science guys will invent something. And you're going to you're going to take a slightly more nuanced view and say, Well, what is it you want them to invent? And is it really possible to do that? But yeah, there's ingenuity. But of course, I guess the thing is, how many people would be preserved? Would it just be the people with the money to buy the technology? I just don't know. And I suppose you can answer it both ways. And both of them are positive in their own way. And we'd give you a little bit of hope.
Nick VinZant 31:13
I don't know if I have faith, but I do have hope. Yes.
Dr. Michael Benton 31:19
We have to hope that humans are decent, and that they will work together in a good way.
Nick VinZant 31:24
What are you? What are you studying? Now? What's kind of the focus of your research? Now?
Dr. Michael Benton 31:29
I'm focusing very much on the end Permian mass extinction, but I'm very interested in the recovery of life. So how did life get back? And there's a lot of very good tools we have now for kind of modeling ecosystems and understanding how all that process of recovery happens, and how good how the new groups fit into the system, and kind of build a whole new world. So yeah, that's what we're looking at at the moment, when we
Nick VinZant 31:57
get into that recovery, is it kind of nature goes wild in the sense that like some crazy organisms pop up, or do we kind of go back to the base a
Dr. Michael Benton 32:08
bit of both. And there are certainly, there are certainly some crazy things going on. And we sometimes call these disaster or species because they are the things that take advantage of tough conditions. And they're they may do well in times of perturbed environments. But eventually things do settle. And it may be a different cohort of species that come along and create that longer lasting ecosystem. And a good analogy is, we can see it in nature today, if they're building a road, for example, you you rip up everything and cut through the landscape. And then you can see the way life comes back on the margins of the road. And the first thing is to come back, there are certain kinds of herbs, plants that just grow very quickly. And you might get one species in Europe is rosebay willowherb, which is a kind of purple flower, and it just covers the bare soil very quickly. And it does fine for a year or so. And then bushes and small plants like that come back, and they gradually get better established. And eventually you'll get trees. So this is something that ecologists look at a lot such cetera. And it may take 100 years for the disturbed landscape to recover. So that's the sort of concept within human lifetimes within ecology. And I think it's something similar on the world scale, that you get this sort of opportunistic species that come in quickly, they're fine. They do well, for a little while, but then they get supplanted and replaced, and you get, the gradual build up of the ecosystem usually is kind of starting at the bottom with various plants and bushes, and eventually trees. And species, animals come back in and in a similar sort of way, when they get the opportunity.
Nick VinZant 34:05
That's pretty much all the questions that we have what's kind of coming up next for you, I know you have a relatively new book out that covers a lot of these things
Dr. Michael Benton 34:13
I do, I was going to wave a copy, but I don't have a copy to hand. But it's called extinction, how life how life finds a way. So it's a bit about both sides, the sort of negativity, but also the positivity of how life can recover. And you know, looking from the present viewpoint, the most obvious example was the end of the dinosaurs gave the opportunity for mammals. We are mammals, so we better celebrate that extinction event. Otherwise, we might not be here quite in the way we are. And looking back at older events, they triggered recoveries of life that built parts of the modern types of ecosystems we see today. So there's always been that bounce back, which is nice. If we take a broad philosophical view Taking a narrower view to survival of Homo sapiens, as we were discussing a moment or two ago, you can't be so sure about that, of course, life will come back. But whether humans are part of that is up to us really.
Nick VinZant 35:12
I want to thank Dr. Benton so much for joining us if you want to connect with him, we have linked to him on our social media sites were Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included his information in the episode description. If you want to see more of this interview, the YouTube version of this episode will be live on March 28. At 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of his show. How long does it take you to get out of the car?
John Shull 35:49
Probably less than five seconds. Good.
Nick VinZant 35:51
I also get out of the car very quickly. But I have noticed some people that seem to just be in there forever.
John Shull 35:57
I mean, I'm already ready to go. I guess I kind of understand people who need to grab wallets or key fobs or something but like I'm when I pull into a spot. I'm ready to go. As soon as I could shut off the car.
Nick VinZant 36:10
Do you ever just linger and sit in the car?
John Shull 36:13
No, actually, there are moments in my life where I don't even want to spend the time to get my kids in buckled. I just want to go.
Nick VinZant 36:21
Yeah, I mean, I generally Watch out for my children a little bit like I'm not going to leave them in the car. But I'm still like, let's get out of here. Even if I have a bunch of stuff that I have to grab, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it has never taken me. Even as a parent with two children. It has never taken me more than 30 seconds to get out of the car.
John Shull 36:43
It's taken me more than 30 seconds, but just because of the kids, but if I was by myself, I would never be more than 10 seconds ever. How
Nick VinZant 36:52
do you feel about people who take a long time to get out of the car? I'm going to Can I Can I interject really quickly before you answer this question that I just asked you. Um, I have a neighbor that I timed, single person a minute and nine seconds to get out of their car. I was like, What are you possibly doing? What are you possibly doing? And this was a person that was in their own driveway a minute and nine seconds. I was appalled.
John Shull 37:21
I mean, I'm to me getting out isn't I'm not more as concerned as with that, as I am people who are, you know, ready to leave and they just sit there in the spot that bothers me more. Oh,
Nick VinZant 37:35
but if some okay, if you know that somebody is waiting for your spot, do you move faster or slower?
John Shull 37:41
I get parking lot anxiety. So I sometimes I won't even be buckled and I'll be out of the spot. I don't want to take up any more time. I don't want to I don't want there to be a conflict.
Nick VinZant 37:52
I also move faster. But apparently there is some research that shows that most people move slower. If they notice somebody is waiting for them all move faster. Like alright, you gotta keep you gotta keep traffic moving, right? Like I look at traffic is the greater good. Everybody's got to do their part and get going.
John Shull 38:10
I would be why did you ever have solution for your neighbor? Did you ever figure out why?
Nick VinZant 38:16
No, they were just there. And that was after I started timing. I was watching them like they're still in the car. What are they doing in the car?
John Shull 38:26
Would you say you're the watcher neighbor? Because you sound like one?
Nick VinZant 38:30
I am kind of No, I'm aware of my surroundings because I work from home. And my house is on a corner and the house kind of sits up a little bit. So I have like great neighbor watching. I'm aware of the comings and goings in my neighborhood. I know when somebody new is in the neighborhood. I know when a car is parked in a place that usually is not. I'm aware of my surroundings.
John Shull 38:54
You kind of sound like Paul Blart Mall Cop a little bit.
Nick VinZant 38:57
I've never seen that movie.
John Shull 39:00
I mean, it doesn't surprise me. It's not a good movie, but it is. It is a fun 90 minutes just to not think and laugh.
Nick VinZant 39:06
I mean the name. The name is the best part of that movie. Paul Blart that was once after you heard the name of it, that movie sounded like it was probably all downhill from there, there was nothing funnier than his name of Paul Blart.
John Shull 39:21
Well, and Kevin James at that point in his career, I mean, he was one of the hottest comedic actors or was kind of fallen off now though. Yeah, that's weird.
Nick VinZant 39:30
I feel like comedians only comedians only have a certain stretch. I feel like there's a comedian that just blows up. And then they're gone. I polled the audience about our get out of the car question. Nobody is taking very long our entire audience is very fast. 67% said five to 10 seconds 33% said less than 10 Less than five seconds. Nobody said 10 to 30 and nobody said more than 30 seconds. So if you're taking a long time to get out of the car you are in
John Shull 40:04
an anomaly. Like I said, I don't even think on accident. I've stayed in the car longer than 10 seconds.
Nick VinZant 40:10
I don't know if I've ever agreed with you more. I have more respect for you about your decisions and getting out of cars right now. I'm like, Yeah, John's got this. I know we
John Shull 40:21
don't get we don't usually see eye to eye on much. So let's we should just count that as a when I first first time and almost 300 episodes. This is
Nick VinZant 40:28
a big deal. Like I've never I feel like we've never been in more agreement about getting out of the car. Get going in life. Get going.
John Shull 40:36
slam the door in don't look back. So many good analogies that can come from it really?
Nick VinZant 40:41
Exactly right. I can't think of any more.
John Shull 40:46
Turn off the ignition. And just keep running. I don't know.
Nick VinZant 40:51
Yeah, you should have just left it at bay stopped.
John Shull 40:54
Yeah, it's
Nick VinZant 40:55
hard to come up with some there is what I tried. I went to the well on the well was dry. Yeah. There wasn't water in there for a long time either. Okay.
John Shull 41:06
All right. We on to shout outs that we're gonna go into here. Sure. Yeah. All right. Let's do let's start off with Sydney mayor. Like a Dude Sydney. That's a That's a cool name. Boy or Girl. Girl actually, it's a female and I don't know if they want their handle out there. But it's said the kid of all things. Hmm. So Hmm.
Nick VinZant 41:29
Interesting. Women don't generally really abbreviate a lot of their handles.
John Shull 41:35
Not really no more of a guy thing. Okay. Bri Wenzel? Renee again, DIA. Carly, Diane, apparently a lot of the female gender listen to her last episode, which is a good thing. James SACCOs. Sam frenzy. Lindsay roast. And her handle is mama Lindsay Lou. So another kind of abbreviate. Are there. A lot of those this time around? How they're received. Marco Christian, Sean Howard. And we're going to end with a pretty simple common name. Kimberly Marie. Appreciate all of you,
Nick VinZant 42:19
huh. Kimberly Maria, I'm going to say is I wonder if that's a full name. I don't think that you want that. Your that to be your full name. That's probably like, first name Latin middle name.
John Shull 42:32
Yeah, I think so. Okay, all right, brilliant. 10 bangers here for you. Oh, let's see. First thoughts. First things that come to your mind. Let's try to keep a movin today. We're going to start off here with P Diddy.
Nick VinZant 42:48
Oh, what's going on with him? Well, that's like he's done something. I can't keep track with all of the scandals that are now happening involving certain people. Basically, if you're a famous person, you have probably done something terrible. There's not like, let's we should just now have a list of famous people who have not done something terrible.
John Shull 43:12
I guess Long story short, from what we know it's very early. But facts are that at least two of his homes. One in Florida and one in California. We're rated by Homeland Security. And there's lots of different things going on. Lots of rumors don't know why they were rated. But I guess we'll find out in the next couple of weeks. I mean, they're the the consensus seems to be something to do with sex trafficking. But that's a pretty hefty claim just to throw out there if you don't know so.
Nick VinZant 43:43
Yeah, like once you start getting raided by agencies, and not just the police, like you've probably your urine urine for something right runs. It's not like the local law enforcement like oh, it's the DEA, like, oh, you hear kinda, you've done something.
John Shull 44:01
Yeah, your Believe it or not, I don't think that's a very big list of people that get raided by the federal government.
Nick VinZant 44:08
The federal government evading you You're, you're going to be answered. You need to retain a lawyer.
John Shull 44:15
So the next two are movie, just movie topics. I'm gonna start here with the new Ghostbusters. Oh, I've lost
Nick VinZant 44:23
track of how many times they've made different team different Ghostbusters movies. I've lost track. Like Which one is this one now. Now they got the old cast in than the old cast before. Once you've lost track like I'm out. I'm out. I'm out of all future ghost movies. All of them. I don't whatever happens out of all of them.
John Shull 44:42
I will say this and I don't know why this is but they made it. I don't know if you remember they made an all female cast. But
Nick VinZant 44:48
that was like three or four Ghostbusters. ago, wasn't it? Yeah, so
John Shull 44:53
it was before this. The Paul Rudd ones I guess you could say which are the current ones and I don't know why that movie nobody liked it or saw it. But people are back on the Ghostbusters train now.
Nick VinZant 45:06
Oh, they like it. This one. Okay, yeah,
John Shull 45:07
good. They're all about it. I'm actually I have two more apparently. Speaking of Adam Sandler, as we talked about earlier briefly. Happy Gilmore to is in the works. I don't think you need to make a sequel 40 years later to Happy Gilmore, but that's just me. No,
Nick VinZant 45:26
I don't like leave it alone. I guess you got like they got to do something. The only thing that bothers me about these kinds of movies, I get the idea. They got to do something. But like what ideas get put forward? Like take some risks. Give us something new. It's just the old stuff all over again. Like we just want something new.
John Shull 45:47
Well, this isn't gonna be new than for you. But apparently Michael Keaton not apparently this is happening. Michael Keaton and Wynonna are in the new Beetlejuice trailer or our movie agency.
Nick VinZant 46:01
That's was the how many Beetlejuice movies were there originally was there one? Just one Beetlejuice
John Shull 46:08
from I believe so. I there may be a two but I don't think that's recognized officially. But for sure there was just the original.
Nick VinZant 46:16
I'm okay with that. The most? Okay. I'm okay with that the most but this because like maybe they've got something new, as opposed to like something that's been going on and on and on. There's gonna do it again. I just want new movies, man. Give me something new.
John Shull 46:36
All right. This one's a completely change of topic here. But say you're on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean. And it starts on fire. Let's say an electric or electric. Let's say a lightning strike, hits a piece of the ship and start stirring fire. Do you freak out? Do you stay calm? How do you handle it? How do you think you would handle that?
Nick VinZant 46:58
I'm going straight for the lifeboats. That's what I'm doing. I'm going right to where the lifeboats are and I'm going immediately. Okay. Yeah, I don't think that that's one of the things like fire on a boat is not a good thing. I just the boat catches on fire. Where are you going?
John Shull 47:16
Well, I mean, that's, I mean, where do you go? I can only imagine looking up and seeing that and just being like, well, I'm dead doesn't matter. Game over.
Nick VinZant 47:26
I don't like modes of transportation with no way out. Like where there's not really any options for you. Like flying. I don't like flying. Because if something goes wrong, like there's only one way you're going, you're not going up. And like the ocean, you're not Where are you going? I like options.
John Shull 47:45
You're going down as the funny that you're either going down or up? There is no like in between? Well, yeah,
Nick VinZant 47:53
I mean, that's just like, gravity. Just that's just how it works. Right? You're either going forward or backward. There's not like a lot of other options. It's just up or down. Alright, no other options, man. All right.
John Shull 48:06
Let's see. Quiet onset, the new documentary. Have you seen? Have you seen it? No,
Nick VinZant 48:13
I just that's one of those things that keep hearing about it. And I don't really want to hear about that. I don't I don't I don't I don't want to be I don't want to know, is where my official position is with that. Obviously, that's terrible. If these things happen to people, it sounds terrible. I don't want to know.
John Shull 48:31
Well, if anyone's if anyone doesn't know what it is the brief one liner is it's a documentary, basically based upon the Nickelodeon shows of the early to mid 2000s. Like Drake and Josh and a couple other ones. And like the lead writer, lead producer, was basically a terrible human being. He's in prison now, by the way. But anyways, it kind of people, people come out in terms of they, you know, like, Drake, Drake, and Josh comes out and talks about how he was kind of groomed and molested and things and there's other actors. And you just kind of realize that these kids and their kids don't really have any control over any of it. And it's pretty scary. Actually, it's a not a healthy way of doing things when you really think about it.
Nick VinZant 49:16
If the movie TV industry was to come forward and say we're going to CGI or AI, all childhood actors from now on, I would not care about the quality of it whatsoever. Like that just doesn't seem like a thing that kids should really be doing. It doesn't really seem like something that works out very well for them. And if they were like, look, this is going to look terrible, but we're going to CGI all childhood actors. Like okay, cool. Sounds good.
John Shull 49:41
I mean, we've kind of talked about it before about childhood actors. Most of the unfortunately don't go on to live very healthy lives. I mean, yeah, they might have money and fame, but they're not like happy.
Nick VinZant 49:53
Your whole perception of reality would be warped. I think I
John Shull 49:57
would just be just be absolutely terrible. Well, so we've pretty much gone left and forth, left, right and center here. Shohei Otani and his interpreter stealing millions of dollars from him to pay off a gambling debt.
Nick VinZant 50:12
Oh man, like, look, then the demon gets you you got to do what you got to do. Yeah, that's like Amen. Don't Don't steal from people. Right. Like, that's kind of that's a crazy story.
John Shull 50:30
It's yeah, once again, if you aren't familiar with that whole thing. Sure your time is probably the biggest baseball player in America. Just google him and it'll come up for you. What's going on with him? Let's see here. March Madness, I got to bring up a local Michigan team.
Nick VinZant 50:46
Oh God, who
John Shull 50:47
is it kind of kind of the Cinderella of the tournament, and then they got eliminated. But Oakland University took out Kentucky.
Nick VinZant 50:54
So wait a minute, one, one game, and then there's Cinderella the tournament?
John Shull 50:58
So far? I mean, there'll be somebody else. But I mean, there's, you have a college of 5000 kids that took out Kentucky. I mean, that's a pretty big deal. Regardless, my question is to you, a kid that basically nobody knew had 30 points. They were off from three point range, blah, blah, blah against Kentucky. My question to you is, within hours of him doing that, and not having one add nothing. He had signed like seven NIHL deals, which in college are you're okay to do that. And that's how some of these athletes make money. But essentially, he made more money because of one game that he made his entire basketball career. It's nuts. To me. It's insane. Well,
Nick VinZant 51:41
I mean, strike when the iron is hot, right. Like, if you get an opportunity, take it, take it as far as you can possibly go Good for him. Yeah,
John Shull 51:48
I mean, yeah,
Nick VinZant 51:49
I mean, I think you just have to be careful that like, you don't know exactly what you're signing up for. But like go, Yeah, do it. Man. I think it's I think the one thing about March Madness is it's a great example to me, of what people can do if you just give them an opportunity.
John Shull 52:04
All right, ankle socks,
Nick VinZant 52:07
or ankle sock. What's the point of having ankle socks when you can have no show? I'm not a fan of ankle socks. If you're going to wear socks that are going to be there's no reason to wear ankle socks. either hide the socks completely get no show socks, or pull them up and get crew socks. There's no reason to have ankle. Why are you showing a little bit of sock? No reason for it.
John Shull 52:28
I actually prefer it but it's fine. You
Nick VinZant 52:30
prefer an ankle sock? You're like, oh, no, I just want them to be down there a little bit. I want people to slightly see my socks. Either show it or don't.
John Shull 52:39
Sometimes you're a grower. Sometimes you're a show or we don't know.
Nick VinZant 52:43
What does that have to do with socks?
John Shull 52:45
Absolutely nothing. Final question here? pant size. Are you Are you the kind of person are you going to? Are you going to push it and get into pants? That might be a little too. Too tight? Are you just gonna go a waist size up and just be comfortable and deal with it?
Nick VinZant 53:01
All I want to do is be comfortable. Now at this point in my life. All I want to do is be comfortable and there's nothing less comfortable to me than having clothing that doesn't fit around your waist. That's so uncomfortable. I don't care if I had to wear 50s Oh, I would be I would rather be comfortable.
John Shull 53:26
While you're getting into my neck of the woods you put on 50s
Nick VinZant 53:29
I think jeans are one of the worst. Worst clothing things that we've ever invented. They're not comfortable to me at all. I don't understand why people like jeans at all. I think they're awful.
John Shull 53:42
They're fine. I mean,
Nick VinZant 53:45
I would work I would go I would go dress pants before I would wear jeans
John Shull 53:53
Yeah, I do. I do like a good dress pant actually. And
Nick VinZant 53:58
I'm jeans are the least comfortable type of pants. Are they not our jeans, not the least comfortable kind of pants that you can wear. I'm
John Shull 54:07
gonna say this just because I think it's evident but I'm not sure you and I should be talking on pants because I feel like we only wear three types of pants. I
Nick VinZant 54:16
don't even know if there's well there's sweat pants, track pants, jeans and like dress pants. Okay, so four kinds than four kinds of pants and I would make a strong argument that jeans are the least comfortable kind of pants that you can have
John Shull 54:29
out of those by far. Absolutely.
Nick VinZant 54:32
So why does everybody wear jeans? I think they're awful.
John Shull 54:36
Because I think we've made it a cultural thing to wear jeans are acceptable. I wish I could wear sweatpants to work every day. You know how comfortable I'd be.
Nick VinZant 54:44
I think that we should go back to comfort. Maybe we should always just be good look like if I had my ideal kind of dress. It would be Roman times type dress where you're just basically walking around in a bathrobe like The Romans had it right. And they like, just minimize the amount of stuff that you have to be wearing. Whenever I see like historical things from like the old west or stuff like that, that looks so awful that they had to wear all those clothing all the time. Oh, it'd be terrible. I wouldn't wanna do that at all.
John Shull 55:19
I was going to try to do a cowboy accent but anyways, let's just shoot it. I appreciate let's just move on.
Nick VinZant 55:24
Okay, is that your whole thing? That's it, man. Okay, so our top five is top five places we don't like to be touched. not sexual. Just places. I don't want to be touched. What's your number five.
John Shull 55:39
I'm gonna I just want to put this out there that I'm gonna sound like a real crazy person.
Nick VinZant 55:42
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This is gonna be enlightening about our real personalities.
John Shull 55:49
So here we go. So my number five is my stomach.
Nick VinZant 55:55
Oh, I don't want to be touched on my stomach at all. I agree with you. I don't know, wait a minute, is it your stomach? Or the sides? Stomach or the sides of your stomach? How do you feel about that?
John Shull 56:04
It's the front of my stomach. Pretty much around the belly button area. I don't want to be touched around there at all. I don't want to be. It's not even because like I'm a bigger person, I have nothing to do with that. Like, I just don't want anyone to get near my belly button.
Nick VinZant 56:19
I don't want anyone touching my stomach either. It's not on my list. But I don't want anyone touching my stomach. My number five is feet. If that's your thing, that's your thing. That's fine. But I don't want to touch anybody's feet. And I don't want anybody touching my feet. I have no desire to have my feet touched or to touch feet.
John Shull 56:40
I think that's actually kind of low my feet on my list, but it's a bit higher. Oh, you
Nick VinZant 56:45
have it higher. Okay, what's your number four.
John Shull 56:47
So my number four are my ears. I do not like when people touch my ears around my ears. I just don't like it. It doesn't feel good. It's just I don't know. Like, there's no reason to invade my space and touch my ears. And I have these gigantic ear lobe things. Like you don't get to flick them. I get it through there. Oh,
Nick VinZant 57:08
I don't. I mean, I don't know if people have really ever touched my ears. But I don't want people touching my ears either. Like Don't touch. Don't touch my ears. My number four is your Achilles tendon. Like have you behind your heel? Like, I don't want anybody touching that area behind my heel like right where your akin Achilles tendon is. Don't Don't touch that. Yeah, I don't. Any place a tendon is I don't want you touching it. Don't Don't touch it. If you
John Shull 57:38
want to be grossed out for 30 seconds. Do y z like how gross we talking? Not that gross. Okay. I was playing baseball. I was playing first base and I had my foot on the bag. And a kid came running through and completed my left Achilles. Oh, to the point to where I had like, I had to go get stitches on my I didn't tear my Achilles. Oh, it didn't sever the Achilles. But like, I got cleated on my Achilles and I'll never I'll never forget that sensation. It was one of the weirdest sensations I've ever felt.
Nick VinZant 58:12
I don't like anything with a tendon like new. Yeah, that's I don't want anybody near that at
John Shull 58:18
all. Never forget that say no to hostile but we'll move on. I don't want
Nick VinZant 58:22
to watch horror movies because of things like that. Anyway, sorry. Go ahead.
John Shull 58:26
So my number three is like your pressure points.
Nick VinZant 58:31
Oh, yeah.
John Shull 58:33
I don't like to people that come up. And they're like, Hey, let me feel your pressure point. They like jab you in the throat or like, stick their thumb in your armpit or like, get you on the sides or something. I just I don't I don't want to feel that. No,
Nick VinZant 58:46
just like stay away from the vital parts of my body.
John Shull 58:52
Like, let me deal with it. I'll be fine.
Nick VinZant 58:54
I didn't put it on my list, but I would put it on honorable mention like my wrist. I don't like when people touch the underside of the wrist. That that bothers me as well. Like don't Don't Don't touch that.
John Shull 59:05
Alright, what's your number? Three
Nick VinZant 59:08
anything around my nipples. Stay away from my nipples. Like not even my I don't even want my wife really like touching in that area. You can go higher up on the chest. But Don't Touch don't go below the nipple or around the nipple. I don't want any touching there. Yeah.
John Shull 59:23
So I'll come back to that one. My number two our feet. Oh, you
Nick VinZant 59:29
put it pretty high. Yeah, I
John Shull 59:31
don't. I just once again, kind of like what you said you said it perfectly. Don't touch my feet. I don't want to touch your feet. If that's your thing. That's great. You know, I also am pretty ticklish. So even if I'm trying to get like a foot rub, I'm going to take it like laugh half the time it's just snap good. Not a good thing. And you had a foot rub. Ah and high school and college but when like I toured like ligament or tendons but oh like a medical thing. Okay, yeah, not not like an actual like Massage. I'm actually I don't go I don't go get massages because I don't want people touching me.
Nick VinZant 1:00:06
Hmm. My number two is the area right above your elbow. Like right around your elbow in there.
John Shull 1:00:14
Like oh no headed up towards your tricep. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 1:00:18
like right in there on your elbow. I don't want anybody like that area and the armpit no
John Shull 1:00:26
new that's one of those areas where if someone pinches you, you're gonna just turn around his elbow them right in the face. Oh,
Nick VinZant 1:00:33
yeah. Don't I feel like anything on kind of the inside of your body like, right? Okay, so I'm talking about like, you look at your hand, I would consider that in the outside. And then your palm is like the inside any of the inside part of your body. I don't want people touching that.
John Shull 1:00:49
Yeah, I don't. So far you and I felt like we don't want to just be touched by anybody
Nick VinZant 1:00:54
don't really want to be touched by anybody to be honest with you. Unless you're like my immediate family members and you want a hug? Or you're my wife. Like I don't really want to be touched.
John Shull 1:01:07
So my number one is basically my face. Yeah, eyes my nose like I don't want I just don't want to be touched there. Like I just don't want to be. No,
Nick VinZant 1:01:20
I would put my number one is also face but I would go specifically my eye. Like don't even put your finger near my eyes. I don't I don't want anything to do with people putting their fingers my eyes.
John Shull 1:01:33
No, I probably go eyes and then my mouth and specifically thinking of the dentist because I just want to like, run away from the dentist. I wish I didn't have to
Nick VinZant 1:01:43
go. No, I agree. I agree. What's your honorable mention?
John Shull 1:01:46
So I
Nick VinZant 1:01:48
have the whole body basically.
John Shull 1:01:49
Yeah, right. I have the chest. The nipples. I mean, I don't do that. That bothers me. I have my head the top of my head. Like the top of my head. But that's more of like just being weird thing. And then this one's kind of weird, but I don't like touching fingers.
Nick VinZant 1:02:11
Oh, yeah. I
John Shull 1:02:14
like a good example, isn't it? Maybe I'm not touching. But like, say you're at a drive thru and you go to like, get something from the person giving you it. And you like have to touch their hand or like, you know, they have to touch your hand. It's just, it's just yeah, I don't do that.
Nick VinZant 1:02:28
Oh, I don't like a handshake when you get just like fingers. That's really weird to me. Yeah, I would agree. I don't want to touch people's fingers. I need to I'm okay with the whole hand. But I don't want to just like catch fingers. That's kind of That's strange. Yeah, I don't want to touch people's fingers. Um, I have definitely like the top of my head, the hair any kind of like the hair area? Like, I don't want you touching that. behind the knee? That kind of creeps me out. I don't want Yeah,
John Shull 1:02:59
I mean, yeah, I'm good with that. Especially if you've had surgery done on your knees. You know, I mean, I would say if you had surgery done on any part of your body, you don't want anyone to touch it ever.
Nick VinZant 1:03:10
I don't really have that much of a problem with my nose though. Like, I don't really care if people touch my nose. I don't want people touching my nose if you haven't done to me, but like,
John Shull 1:03:21
like, I would say I'm okay with touching my back. Maybe my butt. And like my shoulders. Those are probably the three areas I'm okay with.
Nick VinZant 1:03:31
I don't mind the shoulders. Shoulders are okay. I'm not too sensitive about my neck either. That doesn't bother me that much. I don't want the front. But if you're like, the back of your neck or something like that, but that'd be kind of weird for another adult to come up to you and be like, hey, touch America. Come here, like your dad used to do and they just grab you by the neck like that.
John Shull 1:03:56
Like you're a dog and they just like pick you up. Oh my god, that let me go. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 1:04:01
the only other honorable mention I had would be like, when somebody touches that, I think it's your sternum. Like the middle of your chest where that bone is right there. That's a very quick way to get in a fight. Like poke somebody in that and then I call Yeah, I feel like it's one of the laws of one of the commandments. Like Well, now we gotta get
John Shull 1:04:25
you got any other ones? No.
Nick VinZant 1:04:27
Ah, okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it really helps us out and let us know what you think are the worst places to be touched. keep it PG. But for me, I don't want anyone touching my face. I don't really even want my wife touching my face. Honestly, I don't even want to touch my own face.
For the last eight years “Dace” has been legally working as a prostitute at the Mustang Ranch in Nevada. We talk becoming a legal prostitute, saving marriages, moms bringing in their sons and life on the Ranch. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Racks. No, not those racks, the other racks.
“Dace”: 01:14
Pointless: 27:15
Top 5: 44:13
Photo courtesy of “Dace” and https://www.rachelrosephoto.com/
Nick VinZant 0:00
Hi welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode working girls in raps, not those racks, like racks like rack racks.
"Dace" 0:24
I was 21 I was broke, I was about to be homeless. I was definitely starving. It sucks. It's different strokes for different folks, right? So you have to be good at coaxing out of people, their ultimate fantasy. What are you really here for us ladies in the bar, oh, we talk up a storm. When someone's mom brings their son in. I
Nick VinZant 0:44
want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener. Welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest. Her name is da se. And for the last eight years, she has worked as a legal prostitute at the Mustang ranch in Nevada. Was this something that you kind of set out to do? Or was this something that just happened? I
"Dace" 1:19
was 21. And I was broke. I was about to be homeless. I was definitely starving, because I had to pick rent over food for a long time. And I thought honestly, I'm too young, and I'm too pretty to be struggling this hard. And I didn't want to just find some dude and get married. And I'm not very good at dancing. So I thought, well, let's go through the whole enchilada.
Nick VinZant 1:40
Did you feel a certain way about it? Like, did you feel conflicted? Or were you just like, This is what I got to do. And I'm gonna do it.
"Dace" 1:47
Oh, it was definitely this is what I have to do or be homeless. It didn't matter to me at all. I was just so happy I was going somewhere that was going to be warm, safe. Have foods. Honestly, that's all I was thinking at the time. I completely
Nick VinZant 2:01
understand that. Do you think that some people wouldn't?
"Dace" 2:04
Yeah, I think some people would be like, well, everywhere is hiring, just go get a job at McDonald's. And it's like, great. And wait two weeks to get paid $12 an hour? When I need two grand right now are they're gonna throw me out of my apartment. You know what I'm saying? So was
Nick VinZant 2:20
this something that you had done before? Or did you start right at the Mustang ranch.
"Dace" 2:25
So when I had turned 18, freshly turned 18, still in high school, I signed up to do webcaming. And I made a bit of money off of that. And all you had to do, or all I had to do at the time was at night for two hours, I would get on there, I would talk to people, I would do different things they would pay. And it was all just over video. It was never personal. I never exchanged personal information with those people. And at some point, I just stopped doing it while I was dating this guy, and I'd stopped doing it because I didn't need to. But I had that experience. And this guy propositioned me, this older man that I was not physically attracted to. And he knew that no, none of the young girls that he was looking for on these dating sites, were actually going to be attracted to him. So he offered me money to come and see him not have sex, just come see him. And I said, Okay, I'll do that. And it turns into going to have sex with him for money. And that was just, I don't know, I think about it now. And I'm like, that was wildly irresponsible. Like, I just met him first at a hotel room. And then I went to his house. And it was just very, it seemed very normal to me. He was a very nice man. It was very, I never had to do anything I didn't want to do and he would pay me more than I thought that it was worth to do these things more than I thought it was worth to have dinner with him. You pay me a couple of $100 just to sit there, but also pay for the meal. And I thought this is crazy to me. So
Nick VinZant 4:01
when did you then start working at the ranch. So that
"Dace" 4:05
wasn't until years later, I had turned 21 A memory deemed in the back of my mind from almost 10 years prior. I had seen one of these Nevada ranches on a late night HBO show, so I googled brothels in America, and three of them popped up. It was actually Mustang wasn't the first one it was the Bundy ranch. That was the one that had been on the television show and that was the Mustang ranch. And then it was a spread sherries outside of Vegas. And I submitted an application to all three they have one right on their website. It's your name three pictures of you and why do you want to suck dick for a living? What
Nick VinZant 4:41
did you put down? Like that's the job like what do you put down on that job application? Like, because everybody gets that question like Why do you want to work here? Well for money. Do you remember what you put in us?
"Dace" 4:53
I remember blowing all the smoke in the world as you do with any job application. I'm such a caregiver, I would be so attentive and personable with my class. Yeah, I told them I would be the best. Because I had a customer service background.
Nick VinZant 5:09
Do they know though that that smoke are they really like, I don't
"Dace" 5:13
know if they even read that paragraph to be honest with you.
Nick VinZant 5:16
So then you come in, they just kind of like you come in for the interview, or what do they
"Dace" 5:21
call you? They call you and they'll do like a zoom interview to make sure that you are who you say you are, and that you look like your pictures. Is
Nick VinZant 5:31
that kind of ultimately what it's about is like, Look, do you look good? And then that's pretty much all we need? Well,
"Dace" 5:37
it depends on do you look good to who because you can't just have one standard of beauty here. That's not going to it's going to sell but you're not going to meet the needs of everyone else. You have to have every age, every body type every every different race every flavor of lady you need to have here. So that's part of the madams job being a great man and filling all those needs. So but yeah, basically, if you've got the right look, and you are who you say you are.
Nick VinZant 6:04
So like when you start, like I think you just starting another job, somebody shadows you or you gotta you know, you talk to HR, you do that kind of stuff. Like, you just go in like, Okay, here's your first day and you go for it. Oh, no,
"Dace" 6:18
no, no, I had never been really in the industry. I'd never been, I'd never worked in clubs. I've never worked Street. I didn't know any other women in this industry. And I was scared. I was shaking like a leaf. The madam took my little hand and she showed me the ropes. And she was with me, maybe six, seven hours that day. And training is usually like a two and a half hour thing. I trained new girls now I'm the big sister now that I've been here eight years. But so the madam herself personally trained me for all day long, she set me up with two big sisters, and said you can go to her or her anytime and trust their opinion, trust their advice. And she took me into the bar, and I said that guy over there. And she kind of laughed at me. And he was just sitting by himself. And I was like, that's gonna be my first client. She's like, Oh, yeah, go ahead, you know, and that was my first client.
Nick VinZant 7:10
Do they pick you? Or do you pick them?
"Dace" 7:14
It depends who's been here before the clients that have been here before. They they can pick out the new girls, obviously. And you talk to them, and they're like, I remember this one guy being like, this is when you asked me back there, honey. And I was like, oh, let's go then. I guess you tell me what we're doing here. But no. So I had a big sister, I picked out that guy in the bar. That was gonna be my first client. I approached him, we had an awkward conversation for 10 minutes. And he said, this is the point at which you take me back there because he'd been here before. And I said, Okay, let me go grab my, my big sister. And she went in the room with me. And she negotiated the whole thing I had never negotiated before. I didn't know what good money was. She sold me to him for an amount of money that I was so excited for I was I was gonna cry. I was so excited. And now I wouldn't give someone the time a day for like, 15 minutes for that price. But at the time, over the moon.
Nick VinZant 8:13
How much was it at the time?
"Dace" 8:15
I can't say anything about pricing, unfortunately. But what is like, what do you have to learn?
Nick VinZant 8:19
In the sense of like, write, like, stick? Like, you know how to have sex? Like, what do you have to learn kind of how to do
"Dace" 8:28
so you're not going to reinvent the wheel? It's sex, it's different strokes for different folks, right? So you have to be good at coaxing out of people, their ultimate fantasy. What are you really here for? What do you really have to spend and you pick up different things about people that tell you how much you could ask them for in the beginning, because it's all in negotiation. If you ask for too much, they're gonna run out the door. But if you ask for too little, and they agree right away, you're kicking yourself, because you know, they've spent three times that amount.
Nick VinZant 8:58
So it's not like a set price. No, it's a negotiation. Oh, I didn't know. And every lady
"Dace" 9:03
is an independent contractor. So we all have in our heads, like a set menu of standard pricing for things. And we discussed amongst each other, what we've done for what price recently just to update each other on like the going rates.
Nick VinZant 9:21
But yeah, it's a negotiation, missionaries, this price, but if you want to go this doggy style, it's gonna cost you an extra 10 bucks. Like how much of a negotiation are we talking about? Like every little itemized thing, or just kind of like, that's
"Dace" 9:34
gonna depend on the lady. I don't really hustle people that hard about individual positions or if we do this, and then we do a little bit of that. I just say this is a fair price. This is what I'm asking for. And if they don't have it, we talk about well, how can we compromise so that you're happy and I'm happy for you? Is everything on the table? No, not everything was on the table. What is off of the table? BDSM and backdoor activities. I don't want to be beat by people because I don't trust people. And I don't want to beat anybody because I don't derive pleasure from that. Even if they are. And I just don't do backdoor activities. I don't like it.
Nick VinZant 10:16
backdoors buttstock are we talking about something else that I haven't? Yeah, but stuff he never know anymore. Right? Like there's all kinds. However people get down is however people get down now. Is that are your boundaries pretty standard? Or are you kind of are you the wild one? Are you the prude for lack of a better phrase?
"Dace" 10:37
I'm such a brothel. prude. I am I am like your standard girl next door. Good time. That's basically the only thing I want to do. I don't want to do weird shit. I don't want to do fantasy parties. We can go on and out date. I would love to go out on the town with you. But I'm just a regular girl.
Nick VinZant 10:54
Are there some women that are much more comfortable? Like, man, you're doing what?
"Dace" 10:59
Yes, yes. There. I hear stories from coworkers. And I'm like, Oh my God, you're making me blush.
Nick VinZant 11:05
So then, like, how many clients? Would you say like What's your average client a day, week, month, like, whatever timeframe
"Dace" 11:15
at this point, it's been 1000s upon 1000s. But it's quality over quantity, you want to try for at least one client a day. And if you're not going to have one client a day, maybe double up the next day? Or make sure that your big fish that's coming in that weekend?
Nick VinZant 11:31
How many do you have to have to say like, okay, I can make a viable living off of this one. Right, I just want one a day or just one period,
"Dace" 11:42
one a week, one a month, that depends on the guy. You don't you don't need a lot of regular clientele. To make a living in this industry. There are girls that don't have any regular clientele and sometimes are all the time the people that they see is the first and the last time that they're ever seen that person.
Nick VinZant 12:00
Is it more common to have regulars are more common to just be it's more common
"Dace" 12:04
to have regulars because people are going to fall in love with you, or at least like you for a long time.
Nick VinZant 12:10
Are most of the people come in? Are they really looking for sex? Is it just sex? Or is it something else?
"Dace" 12:15
I think they want to be heard. I think a lot of people, I think it's 50% of people coming in here because they need sex and that intimacy and 50% of the time, they need companionship, and they need to be heard,
Nick VinZant 12:27
is it paying by the hour or paying by the kind of service like, again,
"Dace" 12:31
that'll go back to the lady that you're negotiating with? I try to encompass the activities and the time and the price that I give. The reason
Nick VinZant 12:40
that I asked is that let's just assume it's an hour, right? Like how much of that time is actually going to be kind of doing the deed and how much of it is going to be just like, man, we're just kind of talking and I'll
"Dace" 12:49
give you an example. The very last client I saw paid for a two hour appointment. And he spent about 45 minutes, prepping for his party, showering, doing all these things while I'm in the room with him. 15 minutes for us to be together an hour and 15 minutes telling me about Han Solo in the original Star Wars. The cantina scene why it should have been different than it was I can't.
Nick VinZant 13:19
I will as a Star Wars fan, I completely ended. God, this is one of the biggest controversies in Star Wars that continues. Really is this. This is a constant source of discussion and controversy. Okay. Um, but that is interesting. Like, that's not the thing that I would have necessarily talked about. But so then what's your client like, right like, are and let's just stereotype the crap out of people to make just for reference. So we kind of understand this is the client. This is the typical client kind of the the nerdy guy, the guy cheating on his wife, the guy who feels like he has to pay for it, the guy who just wants companionship, like let's just stereotype the crap out of people. What would you say is kind of your typical client,
"Dace" 14:08
all of those men? All of those men and more recently, in the last few years, it's been couples coming in to put a bandaid on their divorce.
Nick VinZant 14:15
I don't feel like that's a great way to heal from your divorce is having sex with another woman. But I am not those people maybe. Does it seem to work?
"Dace" 14:27
No, no. The couples that come in hear that it's a band aid on a divorce situation. It's the last ditch effort one of them has made in an attempt to hold things together and say hey, no, I am really cool see I'm gonna pay for you to sleep with somebody else. And it fucking backfires.
Nick VinZant 14:48
Yeah, that's not gonna work out. I'm a married man. I ended like I would never put
"Dace" 14:53
on the on the other good idea. The other end of that we see tons more couples that come in here who are just is having a good time for the night? And that's it. And that's all that this is to them. And they can go on and have a happy marriage.
Nick VinZant 15:06
Is it exclusively men? Do you see women?
"Dace" 15:08
I see women? Yes.
Nick VinZant 15:10
Is there a lot of women by themselves? Like, what percent of your clientele would you say are just women by themselves?
"Dace" 15:15
I would say less than 1%.
Nick VinZant 15:18
Oh, so that's still not a lot necessarily. No,
"Dace" 15:21
the majority of women I see are coming in with their husband. Going
Nick VinZant 15:25
back to something that you said, like we talked about seeing 1000s and 1000s of clients. What would you say to somebody who heard that, like, Oh, my God, this woman is whatever word they want to put.
"Dace" 15:36
I'd be like, yeah, baby. I've written enough dicks to ride to the moon and back.
Nick VinZant 15:44
Are some but do do other women struggle with it? Like you seem to be like, Fuck it, this is what I do, but to other women seem to struggle with they do.
"Dace" 15:51
And I just don't know what to tell those people. It's the same people that are out here trying to control everyone else's decisions. It's like if it doesn't affect you.
Nick VinZant 16:02
Could you ever see your life changing though?
"Dace" 16:06
I, when I'm not going to be doing full service active sex work anymore. I want to be in a management position here. I've expressed that to management. And they've been very receptive to that. So that's my path moving forward. I do it because I need to educate people that this is normal. Normal women like myself do this. And we have normal lives. And we have cats and dogs and we've tried to grow shit in the springtime.
Nick VinZant 16:32
Are you ready for some listener submitted questions? Let's do it. How competitive is this? Like? Are there a lot of women that are trying to get in this field? Or are you trying to find people to do it?
"Dace" 16:43
It's very competitive. We get hundreds of applications a week here. That's what the man himself told me. I don't see any applications. I don't. I don't I can't put a good word in edgewise for any ladies looking to get into the business. But we're always hiring. And there's several new ladies that start every week. I'm very aware that this is a privileged industry, that there's only 22 legal ranches. They're only in Nevada. A lot of women can't find childcare to fly across the country and make that happen. Do
Nick VinZant 17:14
you have a schedule? Like do you work like nine to five? Like what's Yes,
"Dace" 17:18
I do have a set schedule. It's 9am to 9pm. All the ladies here work 12 hour shifts every day of our tour. tours can range from seven days to you can arrange it with the MME, but they only want you to stay for three weeks and then take a break for your mental health. And then you can come back. But
Nick VinZant 17:35
then like how do you work around? Men straight a woman's natural cycle?
"Dace" 17:42
So you, you just we use period sponges from Europe to mask it. They're specifically made for ministration. We have read condoms, the client can't see it. They don't know what's there. And we don't disclose that information. And I've only had one person ever make me feel bad about it. And thank God I had a co worker with me it was a two girl party and she we just we just doubled back down on him like you've been married 35 buckin years. You've never seen a period before we'll get it all the way out of here. What? But
Nick VinZant 18:15
will you will you turn down clients and be like, No, not no, no. Oh, yeah. Not doing
"Dace" 18:20
it. Yes. I would never say that to their face. I would never make someone feel offended or less than if for whatever reason, I don't want to see them. I tell them it is an astronomical price that they couldn't possibly afford. This
Nick VinZant 18:34
it is that mainly looks or personality. It's all personality.
"Dace" 18:36
I'm not I'm not sitting there judging people based on the way they look, I can find if I can find one thing to like about you. We can have a good time. But if you're a piece of shit, I just cannot be around you.
Nick VinZant 18:49
Do you? Is there a kind of like a type of guy that you generally kind of like, Oh, that's my type. That's the guy that's gonna pick
"Dace" 18:56
me. Nice middle aged man.
Nick VinZant 18:58
How much do you make doing this?
"Dace" 19:00
It varies. On a really good year, you can make more than a quarter million dollars or my my best year to date I did 256 Just here. And then I still had my only fans and I still had real estate investments and my portfolio making money. OSHA you're investing in everything. I've been doing this business for eight years, and you can blow a lot of money but you you're making a lot of money. So you should do something with it. Kind of like a bell curve like a professional athlete. You have all this time to make all this money. And then it drops off and what are you going to do with the rest of your life?
Nick VinZant 19:33
Is that what's the most you've ever heard of somebody making any year? One
"Dace" 19:37
time I asked them Adam on a particularly good month, if I had been taught Booker that month. And she said you are but it's not the most I've ever seen. I was like, I was shocked. I thought well, what's the most you've ever seen in a single month? And she said 289,000. Is
Nick VinZant 19:55
that going to be quality versus quantity? Yeah,
"Dace" 19:58
that's that's the big prices are always quality versus quantity. And those are always the people that are much easier to deal with the man who's going to drop the price of a brand new truck on you for the weekend. He's probably only going to have sex with you twice.
Nick VinZant 20:13
What's the most one person? What's the most one person has ever done on like a one time thing?
"Dace" 20:18
I don't think I can say the number because it's still, I'm not allowed to say prices with x. But I'll tell you it was a blue collar man, and he put it on three different credit cards.
Nick VinZant 20:28
Can you save a number of figures? In the sense like four? Oh, is
"Dace" 20:34
it five, five figures?
Nick VinZant 20:36
Oh, do they have to go through like tests? Like how do you make sure you're not picking all kinds of stuff up, people
"Dace" 20:42
get the IQ and I get it. I'm OCD myself. But we get tested here every seven days. In fact, you can still see the little mark on my arm, they just did my bloodwork last night, that's part of our testing, they do your bloodwork. And you get that repeated every seven days. So we're fully protected here. And then we use protection for everything and there's no body fluid exchange. So we're as safe as we can be. And then we have because HSV one and two can be transmitted via shedding of skin cells. When you're not even having an active outbreak. We have people shower, hot, soapy shower right before the experience, even if they just took a shower. And they drove over here five minutes from their house, get right back in the shower, scrub down, I've had to put grown men back in my shower and be like, I know you didn't wash, I'm gonna wash you. So we're as safe as we can be. In nothing's 1,000%. That being said, we have kept medical records. Since 1971 is when the state mandated that we have this rigorous testing schedule. We've kept medical records since then, and no one has ever gotten anything, not a girl receiving something from a client, not a client, contracting anything from us. And that's also why that we're required to live here for our clients medical safety. So I'm away from my husband, this is my bedroom for the whole 13 days that I'm here this trip. And that is so that they can know exactly where I am and what I'm doing 24/7 otherwise they can't guarantee the client's medical safety.
Nick VinZant 22:23
Will people ever tried to like not wear a condom? They'll ask. I would imagine what your answer is. Yes. You ever had somebody back out?
"Dace" 22:31
Oh, yeah, that's happened before and after they've handed me the money. And after you hand me the money, you're not getting the money back. The
Nick VinZant 22:37
one that always like fascinates me is like Do you ever have like dads who bring their son? Oh,
"Dace" 22:42
yeah. Oh, yeah. The weirder one, though. And the more common one is mothers that bring their sons that really have that happens way more often than dads bringing their sons? Do people feel odd
Nick VinZant 22:53
about that? Yeah. Yeah,
"Dace" 22:55
I know we do. As ladies in the bar, oh, we talk up a storm when someone's mom brings their son in. And it's clearly an uncomfortable situation. There are certain situations where that's totally fine. I talked to plenty of mothers with disabled sons, adult disabled sons. That's I don't give a rip about that. But if you're bringing your freshly 18 year old baby in here, and you're picking out the girl, he's going to have its first time with Lady talk to somebody.
Nick VinZant 23:24
That's a little bit Well, women turn him down.
"Dace" 23:27
I will. Someone will take their money. But I turned all of those parties
Nick VinZant 23:31
down, or is there a male? Is there a man who worked there? There
"Dace" 23:35
are no men who work here currently, because of the way the county laws our state laws in Nevada would completely allow for that.
Nick VinZant 23:42
What would you say is kind of the difference between people who do this on the legal side versus people who do it on the illegal side?
"Dace" 23:48
There's nothing there's nothing but opportunity. Those women just don't have the opportunity to come out here and do this. Like I said, because it's a childcare issue. It's a location issue. It's a support issue.
Nick VinZant 24:00
Yeah, does it feel a lot safer?
"Dace" 24:03
It is a lot safer. And it feels that way because it is
Nick VinZant 24:07
Do you think that like this should be legal nationwide?
"Dace" 24:10
Yes. And legal being the key term not decriminalized? Not just turn a blind eye and give a free for all to everybody needs to be legal regulated, taxed?
Nick VinZant 24:22
Are you good at it? Are you there asking? Are you good at sex? Like do you feel like I'm pretty good at it?
"Dace" 24:28
Oh, why don't you come out here and find out? No.
Nick VinZant 24:32
Yes, I feel that's a great I feel like
"Dace" 24:34
I'm great at it. Like I said you can't reinvent the wheel but but
Nick VinZant 24:38
have you ever had somebody just rock your world? Oh, yeah. Like, Oh, yeah.
"Dace" 24:42
recently. I walked a man out about three months ago and I said look at that face. Ladies. Remember that face? That's the second best day of my life.
Nick VinZant 24:51
What did he do? Did you like what was his strategy? I need some tips for my wife. God he
"Dace" 24:56
just he just laid it on me. It's like we psychologically he may But I needed, we were just twin flames.
Nick VinZant 25:06
Is that unusual? Or most people just kind of, I'm just gonna use I'm just gonna say this our most is that unusual or most people kind of like pumping away?
"Dace" 25:15
It most people are there for themselves. Which is fine. It's fine. I don't go to the nail salon and ask my nail tech like, how are you today? Are you comfortable? Do you need any like, I'm there I pay you, I leave? For a lot of people. That's what this is. And that's fine. What
Nick VinZant 25:32
is your most frequent request? What is your most unusual request?
"Dace" 25:38
The most frequent request is the standard half and half. And that's a little bit ahead and a little bit of whatever position they like.
Nick VinZant 25:44
Yeah, that's really all the questions I got. Is there anything else that you think that we missed? Or? What's kind of how can if people want to learn more and visit you or just you could
"Dace" 25:55
find me on the TIC tock and the Instagram? The modern Working Girl official is my name on both of those platforms. I'm really just out here to educate women, especially women who are in my industry and who are looking for a safer option.
Nick VinZant 26:09
Do some women like have no idea what they're getting into? Yes, yeah.
"Dace" 26:13
And I think about all the girls that are out there doing right now what I'm doing here in the safe space, and they're just as naive and sweet and tender hearted as I am. And they're out there. And I wish they were here. You know, I think about them a lot. Is
Nick VinZant 26:30
that kind of a commonality. For a lot of women who do this, that they were in a situation where they had to do what they had to do? Yeah,
"Dace" 26:40
I don't think any, a woman wakes up and says, You know what, today I'm going to suck strangers sticks.
Nick VinZant 26:48
I want to thank da say so much for joining us if you want to connect with her, we have linked to her on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram, and YouTube. And we have also included her information in the episode description. If you want to see more of this interview, the YouTube version will be live on March 21 at 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of the show. What's your favorite season of the year?
John Shull 27:22
I feel like it's universal for everybody. I feel like summer, however, I'm going to be different and say I actually prefer fall I think so
Nick VinZant 27:32
your universal theory is not correct because I pulled the audience. Summer is second fall is number one. I personally think that spring is the best season of the year because it's full of hope. I think that people are a little bit nicer, a little bit cheery in spring. But spring is actually last summer is fall is number 140 3% Summer number 230 8%. Spring 10% and winter 11%.
John Shull 28:00
I don't think anybody looks at Spring and thinks, man that's hope right there.
Nick VinZant 28:06
It's new life. But also Seattle is very dreary in the winter. So maybe I'm maybe I'm just a little biased to that. But I think spring is an underrated season. Lots of promise in spring.
John Shull 28:18
Last week, we had two days where it was 65 degrees.
Nick VinZant 28:21
We got to know we're talking we're talking about the weather. I just realized that that this entire episode started off with us talking about the weather. Does this Okay? Does I have never really been annoyed by small talk to small talk annoy you it doesn't bother me at all. I actually kind of enjoy it.
John Shull 28:37
I think anyone who listens to this podcast would think you hate small talk.
Nick VinZant 28:42
I don't like talking really about movies or celebrities or sports or things like that. I actually would rather talk about the weather, then movies,
John Shull 28:51
I will say fall is my favorite season. Because not only does it have usually the best temperatures of the year, but it's probably the best food. Summer is the best food and the fall you at least have usually three or four, two or three weeks where it's just kind of chilly out and you have some chili. Maybe something else maybe some stew.
Nick VinZant 29:15
I think that summer has the best food. You're talking about pie hotdogs, cheeseburgers, ice cream, summer America food,
John Shull 29:27
but are you okay with small talk with people you don't know say your say you're on an airplane? Are you going to be okay with somebody next to you just talking the entire flight?
Nick VinZant 29:37
No, because I'm never going to see that person again. I don't want somebody I'm never going to see in my entire life talking to me all the time. But if it's somebody in your daily occurrence, and you have to make small talk, because how else are you going to find out? If you know that person? Are you going to like that person or maybe you're going to be friends with that person or whatever. Like you've got to have the small talk to get through anything else. You gotta do the basics. Are
John Shull 29:59
you okay? I hear okay, here's my problem with small talk is I feel like everyone's answers are predetermined. For the most part. I feel like small talk is the most in or on personable conversation you can have with somebody.
Nick VinZant 30:15
But I think that you have to have that to get to the other stuff.
John Shull 30:19
Okay, well as a shout out, Tom. Yeah, yeah,
Nick VinZant 30:22
go ahead.
John Shull 30:23
J. Lopez. Frank saute. It's stuff that can't be right. Patrick Carroll, J. White. Nick sown Gabrielle. Fernandez, Billy bliss. Justin war, w o r r. And we're gonna end on Matt synth has Jr. cool shit. All of you for checking us out this week. All right. All right. We're back to just I just want your first impressions here. Okay, I'll bring up a topic you just give me your first impression. The royal family in this picture gates,
Nick VinZant 31:01
I'm fascinated. I love it. I love it. Both you and I come from working in media, you still work in media? I do public relations stuff. I'm fascinated by it. Because whatever the real answer is, has to be much worse than all of the conspiracy theories. And I love I don't believe them. But I love a good conspiracy theory.
John Shull 31:21
I just I don't get it. Obviously, something is way worse than the royal family is is leading on? Because why wouldn't you now what it's been almost two months? Why wouldn't you just come out and say something of validity? It just it makes no sense. There
Nick VinZant 31:40
has to be whatever the reason is, there has to be more of a reason behind that. Right? So let's just say it's her health. Well, it can't just be her health, it also has to be something that she really doesn't want revealed. So it has to be not only the reason, but then another reason behind that reason. So whatever the truth is, it has to be so much worse for them just to like not say anything. When you're getting us talking about it. It's a big deal.
John Shull 32:10
I did read one thing, and this is all this. The last thing I'll say about it was that what if this is all a PR stunt by the Royals to gain interest in the royal family again?
Nick VinZant 32:24
Well, they need flown too close to the sun. Because now it's swung in the other direction.
John Shull 32:33
Yeah, but you know, that it's gonna come back around that, you know, we always wanted our privacy and this and that. I'm sorry. To me when you are a royal or somebody in that kind of, I guess celebrity sphere. You don't really have it. I mean, I get family privacy, but it's been two months now and nobody knows, you know, you're editing photos. You're you know, false information. Just one sentence.
Nick VinZant 33:02
That's why the whatever the truth is, has to be so much worse. Like it has to be so much worse. And people that it always comes out they always find out.
John Shull 33:11
It is weird, very weird. Okay. All right. Joanne fabrics.
Nick VinZant 33:18
I hate Joanne fabrics. I loathe Joanne fabrics, Joanne fabrics and Michaels and any of those kinds of stores are the only stores that I go into and start to feel physically sick. I feel ill going into a Joanne fabrics or a Michaels it makes me nauseous.
John Shull 33:39
Now let me ask you Are you okay with like a hobby lobby? Oh, okay.
Nick VinZant 33:43
Any of those kinds of stores where it is just for me personally? Just crap. Like this is all just crap to me. It's it's your thing that's cool. It's not my thing. But I walk in there and I feel physically sick
John Shull 34:01
Hey, well good. Good news for you Joanne fabrics filed for bankruptcy so they may not be around for much longer.
Nick VinZant 34:08
I can't believe a store like that even exists to be honest with you.
John Shull 34:12
It is it does shock me every time you see a brick and mortar like that that is still around and has been around for many years. What what would be a more distressful place to you hell or spring spring Bay break in Jacksonville Beach
Nick VinZant 34:31
I get it well hell dude. I mean I'm not I'm not gonna I don't I don't care what like how bad spring break in Jacksonville Beach is I'm still don't want to go to hell. That's pretty easy answer like the worst place imaginable. Or Jacksonville. I get that question. But now I see those spring break things and I just want Oh God, I want nothing to do with that. Oh, yeah, I
John Shull 34:55
don't want I don't at all. And it's Did you ever When you were in high school or college did you ever travel from from, you know, a home to go to Florida for spring break? No,
Nick VinZant 35:08
I never did any spring break stuff. Even in college. I never did any springs break stuff. One time when I was 18. I went to Cancun for a senior year trip. But other than that, like a large number of drunk, hot, sweaty people is something that I would really like to avoid.
John Shull 35:25
Yeah, and now it seems I obviously you can't end spring break. But you know, Miami had the crack down. What was it last year? Now it's Jacksonville. I just nothing about that seems enticing to me.
Nick VinZant 35:39
I think there's also something about it when you get like the rookie kind of phenomenon in which it's people who aren't usually partying, or the people who are so hard partying, like you get either this side or you get that side. And there's not really that middle ground to kind of balance everything out. It's either the first timers or the like, I haven't been to class and six years timers. And that's just not a good combination. To me. I look at it and like oh, I don't want anything to do with that.
John Shull 36:08
I will say in kind of relation to that. So St. Patrick's Day, it was just this past Sunday. And I had absolutely no desire to do anything. I didn't want to go to the bars. I don't want to go out Sunday morning. Nothing. Hmm. I'd
Nick VinZant 36:27
like a good Saturday, St. Patrick's Day. I like a good Cinco Demayo. I would actually put those days up above New Year's.
John Shull 36:35
Okay, all right. I mean, maybe if I was 10 years younger, maybe but not now. Not sleeping. Good. Ah. Does this does the NCAA division one Men's Basketball Tournament? Do you care at all about that?
Nick VinZant 36:53
My only thing that annoys me about that is all the analysts acting as if they've spent the entire season watching East Jacksonville Central State University and now they somehow know something about it when they have absolutely no idea until they looked at the roster sheet five minutes before who even plays on the team. So that's the only thing that annoys me is people acting like oh, yeah, that's that guy. And he's totally got to watch out for him. They have no idea what they're talking about. Just not otherwise. I like it. I like a good bracket.
John Shull 37:23
Kind of a follow up to that. The Long Beach State, the Long Beach State Beach, men's basketball team made the tournaments with a coach of whom they fired the week before the tournament. So he's going to coach them even though even though he knows he won't have a job after the tournament, and he led them to their first NCAA tournaments I think ever I mean what a terrible way What a terrible thing. Did
Nick VinZant 37:52
he get fired? Because he wasn't a good coach or did you get fired for something else? Ah, I in something else then. Yeah. Like stealing office supplies? Like well,
John Shull 38:05
not not entirely sure. But he seems to be I mean, he's been there since 2012. So Oh, wow. That doesn't
Nick VinZant 38:12
never shake thing up man. Maybe got him the motivation you needed hope. The hope the best for everybody.
John Shull 38:19
Well, I don't know about you, but I put my money on Long Beach State Beach. That's even
Nick VinZant 38:22
though I believe there's a school named Long Beach how many analyst experts are there suddenly about Long Beach State Beach, following the team the whole year watched every game.
John Shull 38:33
I will say this that March Madness and for our international viewers, if you're not familiar with it, it's basically 64 teams Division one. NCAA basketball, they go into a bracket they play and they they're seated right so one through 16 Sometimes you have 15 seeds like like the Long Beach states beat a Kentucky and that's huge. I was gonna say I don't think there's any other tournament like that in the world, in sports to where you could have an a single elimination So you only have one game to either show up or not show up. And I don't think there's another sport Pro or college that's like that. It's pretty enthralling. Really.
Nick VinZant 39:09
I think it's I think it's a good example of what happens when somebody gets an opportunity that you can look at this one thing and think that oh, it's so good and all this kind of stuff. But when sometimes when you give people opportunity, you can be surprised.
John Shull 39:23
By one shot one opportunity.
Nick VinZant 39:26
What's as the rest of it go? You got one shot room to move. Mom's spaghetti that's dealing with Nightline that I remember
John Shull 39:33
Maspeth Tara sorry. You know if Eminem is listening to this, I apologize but his pop up restaurant in Detroit. If you're ever thinking about visiting the trade for that just for that alone. You should not just come to the tray for mom's spaghetti. It's not worth it.
Nick VinZant 39:45
Oh, well, you don't live in Detroit. So
John Shull 39:50
whatever. Mountain St. Helens Oh
Nick VinZant 39:53
man, I live in Seattle. That's close to me, man. That's a big deal. I don't think like and rainier which isn't even bigger mountain. I think it's always been a bigger mountain. I think that Mount St. Helens kind of like lost some height after it exploded. But like, you see Mount Rainier, which is close by, and then you think like, oh, that's a massive volcano. You better watch out. Like you, we think that we're pretty sweet. But nature is still in control.
John Shull 40:20
you've ever been on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean, and you just look out and you just see nothing? But blue to black water? And you're like, Wow, maybe we are just little specks of, of nothing. Yeah. I was gonna ask you about the crazy day. That was the NFL free agency swaps. But to be honest with you, I don't know. I'm gonna ask you. Yeah, who some players are, you know? So in saying and saying that? I will ask you. Caitlin Clark. Do you care? Do you not care?
Nick VinZant 40:55
Oh, she seems like she's great. I don't know anything about it. I think the ultimate question is always right, like, what would they do on a men's team? And I think that that's always going to be a big struggle with women's sports, because men will always wonder well, like, how would they compare to a men's team? But she's a fantastic player doing great things for the sport.
John Shull 41:15
Here's, here's the reason why I bring it up, as she said a bunch of records, maybe all of them really? It seems like people are breaking records and setting records, at a rapid pace in the pros and college everywhere. Do you think it's because the athletes are just getting that much better? Yeah, or because they're playing that much longer because of the way that we can take care of ourselves comparatively to how people used to take care of themselves even 40 years ago.
Nick VinZant 41:46
I think that just athletes are getting that much better. And that's why I never understand people who are on TV or people who make these arguments. Well, back in the day, they used to be better. Like no, they weren't. The athletes of today would always beat the athletes of yesterday. They were always better. The ones today are always better. There is in technology that gets worse over time for the most part and listen to complete decision by that company. So technology always gets better and the athletes always get better. There is no athlete of yesterday, who was better than the athletes of today. It doesn't compare. They're always better.
John Shull 42:20
Alright, two more things here. green beer.
Nick VinZant 42:25
Oh, goods Cool, good. Hey, man, sell the bear. Right? Whatever you need to do dyed green. Like all okay, cool. I mean, that's, I think it's an amazing in the sense that like, that's really all it takes. That's really all it takes for us to do. So like go buy it. Turn it green. Like that's all we need. Any experience is a good excuse.
John Shull 42:46
And finally, would you say the leprechaun is the worst? I guess mascot for any of the major holidays.
Nick VinZant 42:55
It has to be. I mean, I hope that people aren't going to take that in an offensive way but the mascot has to be the worst of all of the major holidays right? Because you got the Easter Bunny the easter bunnies above the leprechaun? Obviously Santa Claus is above the leprechaun? Halloween any of those characters are above the leprechaun
John Shull 43:16
That's it right Oh, the turkey even turkeys are above leprechaun? Oh,
Nick VinZant 43:19
yeah. Turkeys above leprechauns. Now that said is Cupid above leprechauns though. I would say Cupid's probably above leprechauns too, to be honest with you.
John Shull 43:30
Yeah, by far for sure. 100%. Now if like
Nick VinZant 43:34
Flag Day had a mascot, so the leprechaun is the worst of the mascots. But that's because other holidays are so bad. They don't even have mascot. So it's like the worst of the best.
John Shull 43:48
I mean, it flag they had a giant flag as a mascot, it would still be better than a leprechaun? Oh, well.
Nick VinZant 43:58
Depends on the flag. I mean, if it was like a really sweet design, then I might have to go with it. But I would my gut reaction is to say No, I disagree with you. But if it was a sweet flag, if I can, it's pretty cool flag.
John Shull 44:11
All right, that's it. Let's move on. All right.
Nick VinZant 44:13
So our top five is a different one. We'll see how this works out. Top five racks. What's your number five
John Shull 44:26
man, I want to be so inappropriate. However,
Nick VinZant 44:29
that one rack is not going to it's not on my list because I felt like that was too far. But obviously that would be number one.
John Shull 44:36
Yeah, that would be the man or men or women. I
Nick VinZant 44:39
think that's the easy number one. So yeah, chess rack would be the number one rack but we're not including chest racks. Were that.
John Shull 44:49
Were that out of the way. My number five is I'm gonna go with a cooling rack.
Nick VinZant 44:55
Oh, okay. Okay, that's not something a lot lot of people are going to have, but I see the purposes of it. Are you going to put a cooling rack above a drying rack?
John Shull 45:06
No, but I think cooling racks are important. I don't think people if you have them, you understand the importance of them, whether it's for cookies, or for whatever, anything coming out of an oven or a toaster oven, or anything. They're very important. And they're very, I think undervalued, kitchen, utensils, supplies, whatever. Dork.
Nick VinZant 45:31
How many racks do you have? How many columns do you have? How many do you got?
John Shull 45:37
Mean thinking about what I have? Probably for?
Nick VinZant 45:43
Why? What do you have for cooling racks? And just for clarification, how many pairs of tongs do you have right now?
John Shull 45:53
They're probably 10 to 12 pairs of tongs and for cooling racks.
Nick VinZant 45:56
When have you ever cooled more than one thing at a time? Been like you know what? I got a lot of things cooking, you can only have one thing in the oven. So why would you need more than one cooling rack?
John Shull 46:09
Well, I mean, you know if if you're using a toaster oven, using the regular oven,
Nick VinZant 46:15
and this is how they tell me what tell me exactly a situation in which you needed more than one cooling rack. I
John Shull 46:22
mean, Taco Tuesday nights when you're making some toast, data's maybe trying to warm the the taco shells, take them out, put them on the cooling rack, etc. Okay.
Nick VinZant 46:34
I mean, it's so that's one. That's one thing that you're using, what do you need the other three cooling racks for you make pizza. But you're actually USC, you're not giving me an example of when you're using two cooling racks at this. I just did I just did you put a taco and red on the other. You made tacos and you made pizza at the same time? No,
John Shull 46:53
no, it's two cooling racks for the same meal.
Nick VinZant 46:56
So you made tacos and pizza at the same time. No,
John Shull 47:00
no, no, no, no. Let's just go back to making pizza I put the pizza on one cooling rack the breadsticks on another cooling rack. Okay, so but you have
Nick VinZant 47:10
actually done that? Yes. Okay, now that would work as an example. Because the example you were giving me before just two different instances of when you could use a rack, as opposed to the time when you needed to use both racks at the same time. That's what I'm saying. Anyways, what's
John Shull 47:25
your number five still
Nick VinZant 47:26
have two extra racks that are unaccounted for. Even if you have pizza and breadsticks going at the same time, you still have two extra racks that you don't need. I'm just trying to help you save money. And you're resisting it because you just want to have more stuff that you don't need. That's already spent. So I know but you're gonna go farther and you're gonna get another rack. And you're gonna get another rack. Maybe
John Shull 47:45
maybe don't get one by this. By the time we record next week, and I'll wear it on my head.
Nick VinZant 47:50
Just think to yourself, do I need this? Do I need this or do I want this?
John Shull 47:56
Trust me, I think about that every day.
Nick VinZant 48:01
answer is both.
John Shull 48:05
Yeah, yeah. Come on.
Nick VinZant 48:07
My number five is a roof rack. Roof Rack. Okay,
Unknown Speaker 48:10
great thing, but
Nick VinZant 48:12
the only problem that I have with it is you got to put stuff on the roof. And you generally don't want to do that. Like I don't want to go up there.
John Shull 48:19
So I actually I have that. So we'll, we'll come to my two minutes. My number four is a power rack. Oh, could
Nick VinZant 48:29
you lift it now?
John Shull 48:32
Well, I've always been a fan of power racks. You can squat you can do it. I mean, they're they're so universal. I mean potato I mean, BIA exactly basic stuff. But I mean, they're pivotal to core and strength training.
Nick VinZant 48:47
Okay, for people who aren't familiar, a power rack is basically the thing that you like, you go to the gym, and people will be like squatting in it, benching in it, or just standing in it for most of the gyms that I go to just standing there, really? Okay, that's a good one. My number four is a bike rack. I think without bike racks there would be chaos in the world. Just bikes everywhere. You got to have bike racks.
John Shull 49:11
I don't have bike rack V bike rack on my list, but I can see why you would have bike rack on the list. It would
Nick VinZant 49:17
be chaos man, who would be pure chaos without bike racks in the world.
John Shull 49:23
So my number three is car rack.
Nick VinZant 49:27
Okay, okay, I can call it a roof rack. I don't know why we call it a car, right?
John Shull 49:32
I mean, car rack, roof rack, truck rack, Muck rack, whatever you want to call it.
Nick VinZant 49:38
Okay, okay. My number three is a clothing rack.
John Shull 49:43
Okay, okay. All right. Yeah, nothing.
Nick VinZant 49:49
I got another All right. This is gonna be this is gonna be the there's gonna be the big ones. What's your number two?
John Shull 49:56
A sales wreck.
Nick VinZant 50:00
I have sales rack at number one. I think sales rack is the best kind of rack.
John Shull 50:07
Oh, no. Oh no, my friend. My number one is the best kind of rack. Either way, maybe better than the racks we were talking about before we got into the top five list. It
Nick VinZant 50:19
definitely would change as you get older like it was I was a younger man, the chest rack would be the number one. But as I've gotten older, I found that honestly, it's probably the sales rack is my favorite kind of rack as I've gotten older, but my number two is probably your number one, which is the spice rack.
John Shull 50:38
No, actually, I didn't even put spice rack on my list.
Nick VinZant 50:42
You're gonna have four different cooling racks and 15 tongs and you don't even have spice rack on your list.
John Shull 50:49
Spice Rack is good. It's on my own. It's one of my the few things that are on my honorable mention.
Nick VinZant 50:55
I don't know how you leave spice rack off the list. So
John Shull 50:58
my number one is meat rack. Maybe back ribs. A rack of ribs a rack of lamb. Rack of sausage, give me all the meats. Give me a rack of meats. It's the best kind of rack.
Nick VinZant 51:17
How many meat racks do you have?
John Shull 51:21
I mean, that's a tough question. To be honest. I mean, I, I for sure have two of them. But I don't know if they classify as a as a meat rack.
Nick VinZant 51:32
Okay, it's debatable. All right.
John Shull 51:37
Take away the rack part of it. And just the meat itself a rack of ribs. You know, rack of lamb like yes, yes.
Nick VinZant 51:48
That's pretty good. Do you have anything in your honorable mention?
John Shull 51:51
Well, I did have a supply strike. The reason why I didn't put spice rack on my list is I have one but I that's pretty messy. They're not necessarily always in the spice rack. That makes any sense. So if I was more capable, I would probably put it on my top five but because I'm sloppy. It's not. But I have that I have I have a cooling or an oven rack. I'm sorry. And then a drying rack. That was that was it. Okay,
Nick VinZant 52:22
I think you would have more room for your spice rack. If you didn't have all this other crap that you don't need. I think that would be an easier thing. Like I'm just trying to help you out and I don't understand why you were so resistant to my aid.
John Shull 52:36
I'm sorry, did you say you have AIDS
Nick VinZant 52:41
The only other thing that I have on honorable mentioned is a hat rack.
John Shull 52:46
Hat racks are good. And once again maybe like what you said about something earlier maybe it was like 15 years younger. But now as I get older I'm realizing that I have a full head of hair. And I should not cover it all the time with hats.
Nick VinZant 52:59
Yeah, if you have you see somebody wearing a lot of hats you know that they're that is a person that's going to be bald or is bald or balding, right or is
John Shull 53:09
very angry all the time?
Nick VinZant 53:13
Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it really helps us out and let us know what you think are the best kind of racks. I know that's kind of a stupid topic. But I thought of it on a Friday after having a bunch of edibles and I was like, This is too stupid not to do
It’s not illegal but counting cards in Las Vegas can be a dangerous business. Professional Card Counter WitChozy has been banned from dozens of casinos. We talk the secret to counting cards, why casinos hate card counters like him and parking lot encounters. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Best Birthday years.
WitChozy: 01:16
Pointless: 35:52
Top 5: 48:07
Nick VinZant 0:12
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode card counting, and the best birthdays,
WitChozy 0:20
the players edge eventually goes up more and more and more and more. And so you bet bigger when they're when you have a higher advantage.
Nick VinZant 0:29
So how do the casinos feel about this? Oh, they hate it. They hate it.
WitChozy 0:34
They loathe it. I mean, it's such a small gesture, it just shows like, every everything they're trying to do, they're just trying to shark you. I
Nick VinZant 0:42
want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to this show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest, because he does something that while it isn't illegal, it is something that casinos absolutely don't want you doing. This is professional card counter with Josie. So when we talk about card counting, what what is that
WitChozy 1:19
card counting specifically in blackjack is a it's a mathematical strategy that uses card removal to determine the consistency of the remaining deck in order to make more profitable decisions. So for instance, there are some cards in blackjack that are more beneficial to the Eevee, or expected value of the player than the house. So those cards tend to be cards like 23456 I'm sorry, did I say those cards were more beneficial to the house or the player?
Nick VinZant 1:55
Think you said the house? The first ones? Yes, yes, that's correct.
WitChozy 1:59
I thought I misspoke. But then there are more cards that are beneficial to the player. Those are 10, Jack, Queen, King, Ace, even nine. So the most common form of card counting you use the people will use the high low count, which is basically taking the deuce 3456, right, five, five different cards, the 10, the jack, the queen, the King, the ACE, and you keep what's called a running count of how many more douces through six compared to 10s through aces are remaining in the deck. So as more and more of those Deuce through six are discarded. The players edge eventually goes up more and more and more and more. And so you bet bigger when they're when you have a higher advantage and you make money.
Nick VinZant 2:47
Okay to me like alright, man, you might as well be just been speaking, clang on or some kind of other language, right? Is it hard to do though? Like, is it really that hard is like one of those things like once you've kind of like, alright, this isn't that hard?
WitChozy 3:02
No, it's not. Because all you're doing in order to keep track. All you're doing I don't know how much you've heard about card counting, but your people say plus one plus two minus one. Have you heard all that sort of jargon or kind
Nick VinZant 3:14
of Yeah, like I've seen a movie about it. Right? And
WitChozy 3:17
21? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you basically assign values to the 23456 as plus one, you assign it a plus one value, there are different counting systems, but we're just going to stick to the main one. So every time a deuce 3456 comes into play, you just add one, right? And then seven, eight, and nine tend to be more neutral cards. So you just ignore them. And then every time a 10, Jack, Queen, King, Ace is discarded, you subtract one. So all you're actually doing is adding and subtracting one and betting bigger when the plus number is higher. So not really very difficult at all to execute if you can add and subtract by one.
Nick VinZant 4:01
So if we're talking about like betting bigger in the sense, like alright, so you want it to be plus one or you're waiting for be like plus 10 or plus five, like when are you like alright, now go.
WitChozy 4:13
On average, you're going to have a zero count everything trends towards zero. So as the count approaches like a true plus five, you'll see about a two to two and a half percent advantage for the player. And so you'll determine how much bigger you want to bet at each count, according to how much money you have to lose or invest. So for instance, would you want to bet your entire net worth on two and a half percent advantage play? Probably not right. So there are some more complexities in developing like a betting strategy that's, that's formulated to to how much money you have and how much you can lose how much you're willing to lose for that matter. So a really easy rule of thumb is that the house starts With about an edge of minus, or plus 0.5%, so the player has a minus half a percent edge. And as the count goes up by each one single digit right, it tends to be a 0.5. Advantage back to the to the player. Does that make sense? So so let's say the house edge is 0.5. At zero, then it's going to be roughly neutral at one, it's going to be roughly 0.5, at two, and so on, and so forth. So if the counter is plus 10, you can approximate that you'll have a you know, based on this, it would be like a four and a half percent edge. But as you get higher the edge actually is like exponential, which is nice. So so the higher counts are even more valuable, like a plus 10 is going to be more than double as valuable as a plus five. Yeah, a
Nick VinZant 5:56
little a slightly higher number is actually a much higher number. It just doesn't sound like that. So, but even when you're doing this, right, like, even when you have that advantage, it doesn't seem like it's that much of an advantage. So how does this work out where people can make some money doing it? Is it just by like, no, you've got to hit it really hard when you get it, or you just play long enough, that eventually having that advantage works out for you.
WitChozy 6:25
Right? So it comes down to both of them. When you are betting when you are wagering more and more money, when you have the advantage. Over time, you're going to have bigger wins and smaller losses than if you were to vary your wager sort of arbitrarily, you know, not according to any account or anything superstitions, you know, I lost three in a row, I can't lose the fourth, a lot of gambling fallacies. So think of it this way, at a plus three, you have, you know, a little bit over a percent 1% edge. And if you could average on all of your wagers, one to one 1%. Let's say 1%? Well, you can go through 100 Hands in an hour playing a you know, a face up shoe game. So 100 Hands an hour, which means that 1% average return on your average bet. That means you're making your average bet per hour, yes, you will have to weather some variance, you know, like some wins and losses. But imagine your average bet is even $100. That's $100 per hour. That's that's a respectable income.
Nick VinZant 7:39
That makes real, okay. Like they're, I really understand it like, all right, that there you can make some money. And over the course of like, if you're gambling for five hours, it's 500 bucks or $5,000, or whatever, you're now I see the appeal of it. Yeah.
WitChozy 7:55
And then the thing that's pretty amazing about it, is that let's say you want to gamble for fun, but with an advantage. If your average bet is 1520 $25. I mean, people like to gamble recreationally as it is, imagine if you could just make 20 bucks an hour. I mean, a lot of people are interested in that.
Nick VinZant 8:19
So why isn't everybody doing this, though? Why isn't everybody who's got a decent head for gambling a numbers like why isn't everybody doing this?
WitChozy 8:29
I have two guesses. I'm not exactly sure why I think one reason is that people aren't familiar with the math behind card counting. And in my opinion, it becomes easier to rely on the fact that you're doing things properly, you know, what you can expect to win or lose in a given hand, a sample hand sample, meaning if you play, you know, five to 10 hours and lose X amount, you know, a lot of people who want to play recreationally, but they want to pick this up. If they go on a bad luck streak. They say Screw this, I don't even know if this works, you know, they just freak out. And they don't want to do it anymore. But if you have the understanding of like the underlying math, it's easier to be like, well, that will happen, you know, 10% of the time, I'm going to face a downswing like that, and this is all accounted for. And I'm pretty, like meticulous about how I set up how much I bet you know how much I'm willing to risk win or lose things like that. So I think that's one reason and then I think the other reason is that most gamblers are in most recreational gamblers are really unfamiliar with gambling theory, I'll call it Yeah,
Nick VinZant 9:49
for lack of a better word or whatever. It's really like whatever. Yeah, yeah,
WitChozy 9:53
exactly how the, I guess gambling theory and I think the House is employees that to a massive degree, they do the same thing that I do really.
Nick VinZant 10:04
So how many cards? Are you counting? Like? How many things would you have? Do you have to keep track of it's your, your average blackjack game,
WitChozy 10:13
just to count cards, you would need to keep track of that running count that I told you about the the two through six, as opposed to the 10 through ace adding and subtracting one. And then you would want to keep an eye on how many decks are left to be dealt. So if you're playing a six deck shoe, the shoe is like the container that holds the cards. And the size of the shoe can vary like between one one decks usually isn't a shoe game, but one deck to eight decks is usually the maximum. And when you're keeping that running count, we call it the tally of plus one minus one, blah, blah, blah, in order to find what's called the true count, you're going to want to keep that number and divide it by the number of decks remaining in that shoe. So for six decks, we took 223456. So they're in one deck, there are 523456, there's 25, cards, times six is 150. So you have 150 of two through six 150 of 10 through ace. And so removing one Deuce and a six deck shoe changes the ratio of 149 to 150. It doesn't do much. Right? Do you understand what?
Unknown Speaker 11:35
Yeah, yeah.
WitChozy 11:38
With six decks, you're going to take that tally number and divide it by the number of decks remaining. So if it's the first hand in the shoe, and you have plus three, then the true counts around plus 0.5. And the true count is what tells you what your actual advantages over the house. Okay,
Nick VinZant 11:55
how long did it take for you to be like, Alright, now I can do this. Well,
WitChozy 12:01
when I learned to count, I was actually working in a casino. I had a lot of big experience with cards, handling cards, the hands what you should do with the hands, you know, I had a lot of what's the word I'm looking for exposure to blackjack already as it were, because I was dealing the game. I would say it took me probably like a month of dedicating a lot of time to making sure everything was perfect, zero mistakes. And since then, my my game has obviously progressed a lot since then there are other things that you can add to make your game more and more profitable as time goes on. But in order just to learn to go out and play a profitable blackjack game, I would say it took me like a month of of practice.
Nick VinZant 12:47
Would you say is that fast? Slow normal?
WitChozy 12:50
I would say that was that would be average.
Nick VinZant 12:53
Now how did you get into it? How did you decide this? Like, Alright, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna do this.
WitChozy 12:57
Well, I always liked like math and logic and philosophy, like, either just thought all that stuff was kind of cool. And I kind of accidentally found it through that. Because while I was working in the casino, I was taking a probability theory course. And the basically, I just realized that all the stuff that I had seen in movies, and whatever that there were, there was like, really legitimate background behind it. And that made me so curious. And so I dove deep into like, how this works and found, you know, forums online or whatever it may be. And I just kind of like went ham on it for probably a month. I mean, I'm estimating. And then I was like, Man, I'd like to do this. And then I ran, I was in college, so I didn't have the bankroll or ability to like risk money to go out and play blackjack, I was never going to do that. And there was a customer that I was pretty close with. And he always saw me like as, to be honest, smarter than I am. Like, he thinks that I'm so smart. But um, I'm not that smart. But he he just wanted to and he's a gambler, so he just wanted to go ham on it. He's like, Let's go we're gonna go take these guys for everything. And then we just went on like a little card counting run and everything, you know went very well we made money and that kind of started my bankroll to start my own personal endeavors.
Nick VinZant 14:25
Is it one of those things that you kind of gotta you gotta have money to make money like do you need to have a pretty good bankroll to get into it? Or like I got $10 Let's go for it. $10
WitChozy 14:34
There is no chance there is no chance you make it and by no chance I mean like 0.0001 I mean it's it's there's there's like no chance but it kind of depends how much risk you want to put into it. There's something we have a calculation called Risk Of Ruin, you know, risk of going bust and you can use software and things like that to like calculate, what is your risk of Ruin playing this strategy and you just plug it in, and the computer will simulate billions of hands and or hundreds of millions. And you can just decide, you know, if you want to take on that much risk or not.
Nick VinZant 15:17
So how do the casinos feel about this? Oh, they hate it. They hate it. They loathe it. They know it works, or why do you think that they hate it so much?
WitChozy 15:27
In general card counters are the reason there's so much scrutiny in Casino Blackjack, because the house is trying to protect their games from being taken advantage of, and the blackjack card counters are in there trying to take as big of a cut as they can from those casinos for as long as they can. And so yeah, they definitely don't like it. So
Nick VinZant 15:49
what will they do? Like, will they come? Will they cut you off? Or how does this kind of work,
WitChozy 15:53
a lot of people are still not aware that the casinos, they'll go in and they'll lose, you know, their their retirements, they'll go in, they'll lose their net worth and the casinos will, you know, happy to take be happy to take it. But if someone goes in there and tries to get a you know, 1% advantage over the house over time, then they're just going to straight up tell you you can't play there, they're going to kick you out. Eventually, if you keep coming back, they're going to trespass you, they're going to try to harass you. And I wanted to get undercover footage of all of those types of encounters. And so that's kind of what started my content is I wanted to show people this is what happens if, if you make profitable bets against the house at all. They just abandon it kick you out.
Nick VinZant 16:40
Like how do they figure out that you're doing this?
WitChozy 16:43
So step one is they will monitor the betting patterns of the players and surveillance because like I told you, Blackjack has a lot of scrutiny on the game, because they know that blackjack is susceptible to being exploited by card counters. So they'll have people in surveillance, monitoring the betting habits, patterns of the customers. And, you know, they might have software, they might have individuals who can keep the count. Plus, they have you know, they can go back through footage and review footage and they have a couple, you know, benefits that you don't have while you're counting live. And once they identify that wow, every time the count is at a certain point this person is betting on average, you know, five times larger than their average wager. Yeah, he's gonna make profit off us over time ban them and they don't care if you lose or win. That's the you know, misconception about card counting. I had gone into Red Rock and lost $10,000. And when I went to pull pull more out in their high limit room, they banned me when I went down to my last as I was down to my last chip look reaching for more cash, they said sorry, you're too good for us. I just lost $10,000 They said I was too good for them.
Nick VinZant 18:03
They so they just they're not even gonna take the risk now. Do you kind of get is this a process that you go through? Like every time you come into a casino like they got to figure it out? They got to do that stuff? Or do they kind of know you coming in sometimes.
WitChozy 18:16
Now they know me coming in it's it's it got to the point where I would walk into onto a property and they would have surveillance, some of the higher end places and regions, they would have surveillance or security like on their headphone, I would see him Look at me. And then they would look down and then they would kind of like tell me from a distance and then talk to someone else. And they'd walk away and all of a sudden I have someone else trailing me. And then they just immediately they're just keeping an eye on where I go and what I do. And it's just not really comfortable. It's not fun. It might sound like exciting, but at some point, it feels like it's really frustrating. Pretty much every place. I go in, I sit down and I can't get much time mostly only the smaller places I can maybe get an hour and then they'll ban me.
Nick VinZant 19:07
Or they usually kind of jerks about it or they just kind of like hey man. It's over. It's
WitChozy 19:12
hit and miss. In my experience, some of the tribal casinos are I don't know I don't know if I would say jerks, but they're they try to intimidate you as much as they can. They're trying they're playing like a psychological warfare type of game against you. And they're trying to like make sure you never come back because you're afraid to come back.
Nick VinZant 19:35
Yeah, it's one of those things that like it's really hard to feel bad for them. In that sense. It's like you were mad at me for taking advantage of the game but you were taking advantage of me. They're
WitChozy 19:46
taking advantage of of everybody else they're taking advantage of a good example is in the same room the casino was offering and comping me drinks I've had several times and I've had several times is where the pits will encourage me to keep taking drinks, keep taking drinks, they will encourage me to bet bigger and bigger while while they think I'm a whale. But then once surveillance catches me because it's not usually the pits that catch you, once surveillance catches me and I get kicked out, it's just funny you see both sides, it's not the same person, right? It's the pit boss that's telling you and encouraging you, the people in the pits are encouraging you to drink, and bet larger and the high limit rooms. But then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, big guys in a suit that represent the bigger interests of the casino are the ones that are going to tell you. Actually, you're not allowed to play here at all. But it's
Nick VinZant 20:38
not technically illegal, right? Like, not
WitChozy 20:40
even remotely, as long as you are not using any sort of device or any sort of external help to make your decisions. All I'm doing is betting when I'm allowed to bet I'm not cheating. I'm not, you know, changing my bet after the result of a hand or doing anything along those lines. So there's nothing illegal at all. There's a bunch of legal precedent that has concluded that nope, counting cards is definitely not cheating.
Nick VinZant 21:10
Is there? Okay, so blackjack seems to be the dominant one. But are there other games where this can be? Like what other games? Can you also use this on?
WitChozy 21:19
This question is the same reason I still want the face blur because I found a very specific wager, and another casino and another game I can I can share the game, it's Baccarat. There's a very there's a specific wager that I found out to be exploitable, like on my own. And I, you know, part of me wanted to share it so much with the Internet. But right now, I would like to just see what I can make and take off them before they figure it out. And I don't really want me blabbing my mouth to be the reason that they maybe take away the wager or they re re evaluate the the wager as it is. And so there's a specific wager in baccarat that I found to be it's actually more profitable than blackjack. How
Nick VinZant 22:14
much like how much have you made doing this? I know you're not going to tell us what the wager is. But can you tell me how much you made doing it? I'm
WitChozy 22:20
actually I'm thinking about if I want to tell you what the wager is? It's a side bet it's a side bet the Baccarat is not like I will tell you the return, I will tell you the return. So blackjack I told you makes on average, you can expect 1% is fairly good is good per hand. So if you're betting 100 bucks, on average, you make 100 bucks every 100 hands. This game, there are some situations where you can have a 100% average return, if people are able to figure out what the wager is based on that I was going to not say what the payout was because that kind of starts to give away with the wager.
Nick VinZant 23:05
Yeah, somebody could backtrack it and figure it out. I know. But if they do, then then good for them. Um, are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Absolutely. Is this really better than just a good blackjack strategy? Like if you kind of played blackjack perfectly, or as perfectly as you could? without counting cards? Is it better than a good strategy? It's the
WitChozy 23:33
best strategy. So it's, so you're counting the cards and you're using that strategy along with the card counting. So it's kind of like if you memorize that book that exactly what to do in every situation in blackjack, it actually means you're ready to if you if you memorize that perfectly, you're ready to count cards, you're ready to learn to count cards. Because if you don't know that strategy, counting cards doesn't give you anything. It gives you very little, it gives you very little and you'll still be losing you need to be able to know what the strategy first is, in order to learn to count cards, because you're counting the cards. And then you're following that strategy along with it. That's the simple answer. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 24:21
I understand what you mean. Right, like you got to know how to play first. Then once you know how to play, then you can get into this most you have ever won at one time most you've ever lost at one time. So
WitChozy 24:33
most I've ever won at one time would be around 13 14,000. Then there is my biggest losses just shy of 10,000 Actually, it's happened trying to dis I'm trying to decide. Yeah, I think it's only happened once actually that I've lost the 10,000 that I've lost 10k In to a session, I feel like there was one other time. I mean, I kind of become immune to caring too much about the results of a single session or whatever. So it's not like a big achievement if I win or lose a lot. It's just like part of the swings, and you learn to just become like, what's the word I'm looking for just showing memory, you gotta have a short memory. Yeah, you just don't care. You don't care if you win and win or lose in a day after you do it long enough. Because you know, you're just going to lose, you're going to win, you know how much you're going to win on average. And it's just like being a robot.
Nick VinZant 25:37
So then like, Okay, if you took it over like a week period, or a month period, or a year period, whatever, like extended period, you've done this for. So
WitChozy 25:44
after 15k hands with a one percentage, you'd win, you'd win, like 150 times your average bet. So like, if your average bet is 100 to 100 bucks, you make 15 30k pretty easily. And then if you're betting more, you have more money to risk and to wager, you'll make more and so on and so forth. What
Nick VinZant 26:04
kind of gives it away, like what gives it away in the sense like you can spot if you're at the table with somebody else that you can tell that they're doing it, what usually gives it away.
WitChozy 26:14
What usually gives it away is that at the point in the shoe, when you want to start betting really big, you see that they already have a huge bet out there. And then like when that count drops a lot, you see they just dropped their wager down to a very small size. Again, you see that a couple of times, you know that they're at least trying to follow the count the way they that the same way the house catches you. That's how you'll know as a player as well.
Nick VinZant 26:37
So okay, let's say that you're having a normal hand, so to speak, your normal bed is what you see, let's just assume for the sake of kind of just easy numbers, right? Let's just say your normal bet is 100 a hand, when you see the count, really go in your favor, what will you jump that up to with
WitChozy 26:57
my personal bank roll, I would feel like I wouldn't want to go more than 10 to one, which is already an aggressive spread. Because I mean, at three 4% edge, you can lose a lot of if you're doing over 10 to one, let's say 21, you're betting $2,000, you can still lose, you know, six figures over the course of time, betting with that big of a spread. So I would probably do something around 10 to one and feel very happy and safe with it. No bigger than 10 to one. And I would bet. So yeah, I would bet between 100 and 1000. And I would err towards betting 1000 on a true count of about plus five or bigger if I were allowed to do it. So you'll jump
Nick VinZant 27:40
it up pretty significantly, but not super crazy. The
WitChozy 27:44
only reason I won't bet more at $100 Min is just because I'm not rich enough to be able to take you know, several 100k worth of losses on a bad run, it's going to hurt my ability in the future to continue playing and playing profitably. So I'm going to find an amount that I can tolerate the down swings and be able to continue playing in the future. Yeah, it all adds up. In the end. It's just about like the math. It's funny, you're kind of like trusting the math more than the results. So
Nick VinZant 28:14
looking at this, right, like this is telling me about this, like what's happening here.
WitChozy 28:19
So this is a time when I used a another recreational player as as cover, because the person that I was playing with was a regular. Yeah, meaning they they frequented these places and played in such a way that, you know, they were definitely not a card counter. So I made friends with this person. And they allowed me to go in and play with them and kind of they could fluctuate their bets and follow my instructions. And it basically allowed me when when the casino sees me associated with another regular and before they know about me, they're not going to be as skeptical. They're not going to be as skeptical about like what I do. Does that make sense about betting because I'm walking in with another player who you know is going to lose money has lost money over time to them. So eventually, I just got too greedy, too ambitious and spread a little bit too much. And you know, this pit boss got the call and he walked over and he said something like, Have you ever been told you're not allowed to play blackjack somewhere? And, and I was like, No, I was gonna say no, I'm drinking you know, I'm like drinking and just, you know, I'm acting like a fun gambler. And, and then my friend and I had talked about little like pranks or gags to pull on them. He's like, You should do something really childish like, like, tell them they can't play blackjack, like act like a little child. And I just didn't really know what to say it sounds like you can't play blackjack and then he's like, I can't play blackjack because I work here. I was like why work here and I just acting just entertainment just
Nick VinZant 29:56
to kind of get a rise out of I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah, so like, how long would that take? Like? How long did it take him to? To figure it out?
WitChozy 30:05
At this location? I think it took maybe no more than two hours, probably between one and two hours at this exact location. Oh, this, this one's fun if you go down this one, okay, my strategy and the high limit games, this is 100. This is actually 100 Min game. My strategy and the high limit games are I bring in a friend who I can trust, like, with my money, because my my intention is to get like kind of, kind of, like drunk and I don't want anyone taking advantage of me or anything like that. And, and the reason I get drunk is because I it buys me a lot of extra time. And the edge that I sacrifice the edge, like the advantage that I sacrifice is only marginal. I don't make basic strategy mistakes. But there are like small accounting mistakes that usually err on like one or two off. So like, I'll think it's plus three, but it's plus five. But in such an instance, like, if, let's say, I think it's plus five, but it's actually plus three. Either way, I will have an advantage. So basically, as I'm playing even though I'm drunk, as I'm playing, I'm keeping in mind that like, there might be like some chance that this count is slightly lower. And so I'm just always trying to like hedge. Does that make sense? Yeah, so I'm just kind of always trying to hedge my count. And then at some points you just get so such a high count that it doesn't even matter if you're off by a couple because out a true 13 or 14, your edges so enormously high, that the drunk image allowing you to play some massive ridiculous bet, like for 1000 or $1,200, like two hands of 600 is worth way more than the fact that it might be a plus 12 instead of a plus 15. And that they're gonna let you play the next like 10 shoes with before they start questioning it. And so I have something on actually on my YouTube where I break down some of the strategies I used. This is a really cool one. So the pit boss tells me to bet big. I asked the pit boss if I should bet big or small when the count is really high. So we have like, I don't remember, I think it was plus eight or plus nine. And I asked the pit boss, should I be big or small, you know, I'm acting like a gambler. She goes, she goes big bet big. But I know she's going to tell me to bet big and at this point in the session, I already know that they're really like, they're watching my bets a lot. Cuz they made a call they had made a call and like the prior shoe about that I had like upped my bet on like a big count. So now at this point, like kind of the heat's on, but I just want to like squeeze as much value as I can. So I asked the pit boss bigger small she tells me big I bet massive. I think I one one pushed one. The results don't matter. I got a ton of value off of the bet I won some money on that bet. But what's hilarious is she gets a call from the pit boss and the pit boss tells her he just bet big again the count right when the count went up. And then she goes I heard her wallum BS thing with the dealer. I hear her go. I told him to
Nick VinZant 33:23
Are you are you banned 100% from any places. So
WitChozy 33:27
usually when they ban you, they just tell you you can't play blackjack because they would love for you to go and sit down at roulette or baccarat or something like that. So usually they just banned you from specifically blackjack. Have
Nick VinZant 33:41
you has this happened to you so many times that you don't think about it? Or is it still kind of a nerve wracking anxiety producing experience?
WitChozy 33:50
I think it places where I've already been banned a lot. I still most people who have done it as much and as long as I have, they just do become immune to it. But for me, I don't like the I just don't like the feeling of like them telling me like I don't know. It just feels uncomfortable being unwelcomed you know, and she rescinded it after she got told by surveillance some higher up to like not have any contact with me drop him and I didn't even get the offer that she already gave me I mean it's such a small gesture it just shows like every everything they're trying to do they're just trying to shark you like there they really are. Every time they give you a free this or free that it's all calculated based on how much they think they can get off you. The big lights everything it's meant to entice you it's meant to make you make irresponsible decisions and slowly give them the value. So is
Nick VinZant 34:50
there anything else that you think that we missed or anything else like that?
WitChozy 34:54
They can reach out on any of my social media with Josie the web tcaa Josie why it's the name we chose for it and they can reach out to me on there. But other than that, I mean, I'm going to be streaming some poker on kick. So I'm going to be studying and learning advanced poker strategies basically and playing online and streaming on Kik. Under the same handle with Josie.
Nick VinZant 35:22
I want to thank with Josie so much for joining us if you want to connect with him, we have linked to him on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included his information in the episode description. If you want to learn more about how card counting is done. The YouTube version of this interview will be live on March 14, at two at 12:30pm. Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw, and get to the pointless part of the show. Do you feel like you're a rule follower?
John Shull 36:01
I mean, I'm not in prison, if that's what you're asking, like,
Nick VinZant 36:04
if you're just out in society, are you going to follow the rules?
John Shull 36:08
I am a rule follower. But I think as I get older, I'm giving less care of the smaller things. Like if I'm at a red light to turn left. And there's no traffic coming at all. And there's nobody no pedestrians, why not turn? Why do I have to wait another 45 seconds?
Nick VinZant 36:27
I'm a rule follower, if it's going to affect people around me, but if I don't think that there's any harm in breaking the rules, then I have no problem breaking the rules.
John Shull 36:38
I just sometimes feel like an old crotchety old man. You know, one thing though, that I never will, that I never will do that I want to do constantly is park in the handicapped spaces or places? Oh,
Nick VinZant 36:50
that's one of those like things that I wouldn't even cross at all. I never would be like, I'm just gonna park in the handicapped spot. I wouldn't do that for a second. But then I had relatives that actually needed those spots. So I probably feel a lot differently about it. It's really
John Shull 37:05
traffic rules. I mean, I don't what are the rules are there to break? Really? I mean, the laws of life gravity. I mean, I don't know.
Nick VinZant 37:14
Ah, I mean, like little rules you could talk about, like, I live in Washington, where you're supposed to pay for bags, and I never pay for bags and self checkout. I'm like, Oh, no bags, and I just take him because I live dangerously. Okay, but when when you follow the rules, do you do it? Because you feel like you should? Or because you're afraid of getting caught?
John Shull 37:36
Just because I feel like I should? I would love to know like who like, if you do break laws on a regular basis? What are they? I mean, do you consider not paying your taxes? Breaking the law? Are you smart?
Nick VinZant 37:51
I think you're smart. If you use the system, I think that's smart. But I think just blatantly not doing it. Well, they're gonna find out because the government knows how much you owe. They just want to make sure that you're gonna be honest with them and tell them and then they're gonna tell you how much you don't actually do. That's a huge scam. Anyway, I polled the audience. 63% said that when they follow the rules, they follow the rules, because you think they should only 37% Follow the rules, because they're afraid of getting caught. I do think that society kind of has to follow the rules in order for it to exist. I just think that a lot of rules are made for 10% of the people who are complete idiots and kind of ruin things for everybody else. And that people should then know when to let people break the rules. However,
John Shull 38:35
I do feel that as a society, we need to move forward. I feel like a lot of these rules. Whether you follow them or not, are were made by people in a time in a culture that is not reminiscent of what we face today. Like I just I just randomly looked up crazy laws around the United States. And I'm just going to randomly pick a state. Here's one Georgia, in Georgia, those who engage in llama related activities are responsible for any injuries, they suffer. Like, that makes sense, right? Like, why would it be a thing? One way or the other?
Nick VinZant 39:17
Because somebody probably did something and there was like, well, there's no law against it. Like, well, we didn't really think that people will be doing that with llamas, and I guess now we got to have a law says you can't do that with llamas, or
John Shull 39:29
Idaho. Cannibalism is illegal. Yeah, no shit. It's illegal. Why does it have to be written into the Idaho constitution? Like,
Nick VinZant 39:39
because if it's not, then somebody can get away with it. Right? Like you got to have a law on the books. Cannibalism tend to be frowned on.
John Shull 39:46
Anyways, I'm gonna end this with our two states that we were born and grew up in. We'll start with we'll start with Kansas. Don't shoot rabbits for motorboats. It's a good one.
Nick VinZant 39:59
because that means that somebody did that and something happened. Right? You don't just like hey guys, let's just just as a precaution, we should probably cover this like know somebody specifically did that. Like now we gotta write a law about it. Like
John Shull 40:15
the tagline here is it's illegal to sell liquor by the glass in over 25 counties in Kansas, catch fish with your bare hands. And no, you cannot shoot a rabbit from a motorboat.
Nick VinZant 40:28
Highway hunting, highway hunting is a very people who don't know I don't know if it's called highway hunting. But it was basically like people would hunt by just driving around. As opposed to actually like hunting the way you're supposed to. They would just drive and shoot out their cars happens Kansas.
John Shull 40:45
Well and here's one that makes absolutely no sense from my great state of Michigan. You can't be drunk on a train in Michigan, but you can be drunk in an airplane. And don't worry once you get to Ohio, which borders Michigan to the direct south, most of it, you can absolutely start drinking. I know it's kind of interesting. Let's give some shout outs here. We're gonna start with Nick Bradford. Shout out to all the next in the world. THOMAS LEIGHTON. Anthony rock, Rick Carmen, J. D. Chu JD can go either way on jadis.
Nick VinZant 41:24
There's a few names where I'm okay with having them be initials. Essentially, I can be okay with JD AJ. Obviously, DJ,
Unknown Speaker 41:35
what about BJ
Nick VinZant 41:39
not as a person? I would name my kid that. Alright, so it'd be hard being a guy with a name BJ. Oh, maybe J.
John Shull 41:49
Though there. There have been some successful BJs in the world and the history of of life. BJ surhoff former baseball player never heard him. All right. Well, here we go. Let's see. Famous ol boy.
Nick VinZant 42:06
Miss BJs. You're gonna go down a road on that. Yeah. All right,
John Shull 42:12
back to shout outs. Justin Underwood, Burton Whelan, Luke Kohler, Hank Jackson, the third and JB Austin ball. Appreciate all of you for checking us out. All right. Well, speaking of actors and actresses, we're going to switch up the fun portion of this show. Oh, okay, switching it up just a hot second. By the time this comes out the Academy Awards, which were the highest viewed Academy Awards, if anyone cares, know that in several years. We're on this this past weekend. So I thought it might be a little fun. I had my wife randomly pick out 10 celebrities, their ages, and I either went above and or above or below their actual age. Okay, I got six out of 10. Right. So I want to see how you do and then the winner gets nothing. Cool. All right. Let's see, we're gonna start with Danny Glover. And I'm gonna say 76 Well,
Nick VinZant 43:20
wait a minute, don't you already know the answer? So what's the point of you guessing if you know the answer already
John Shull 43:25
know I'm gonna give you a number and age and then you tell me if you think
Nick VinZant 43:29
Oh, I see. You're giving me a point of reference. Yes.
John Shull 43:33
I'm not giving you the actual number. I'm just giving you like an age of reference. And then you tell me if you think the actual age is above or below that number. And you get it right or wrong. Okay. Above. Correct. He is 77 Okay, okay. All right. I also got that one. Right. So one for one. Very good. Very good. John Cena. 48 he's
Nick VinZant 44:03
40 he's 43
John Shull 44:07
You are correct. It is lower. But he's 46
Nick VinZant 44:11
Oh, he's 46 I thought he was 43 I'm just I'm not playing your game. I'm just gonna guess the age.
John Shull 44:15
I mean, I you want to just guess the age and now
Nick VinZant 44:20
I'll just straight guessed the age. Okay. All right. Can we step it up?
John Shull 44:23
Cardi B 2931.
Nick VinZant 44:30
Oh, that's pretty close. I feel if I get within two years. That's pretty good. Two years a decade.
John Shull 44:38
Okay. Giselle. Buenas Shinn.
Nick VinZant 44:42
4044 43 Oh, okay, because I thought that she was close to Tom Brady. 43 isn't okay. Okay, okay.
John Shull 44:51
Jack Nicholson.
Nick VinZant 44:55
Oh, he's older he might be 7886 Oh my God, he's 86 Well, it hasn't been in movies for a while now you're like, Oh, well, that's probably why. That's old man. That's like getting up there. That's like, congratulations.
John Shull 45:10
I got that one wrong myself. I don't
Nick VinZant 45:13
know if I want to hit the 80s I don't know if I want to do that.
John Shull 45:17
Martin Scorsese. 81 Ding ding ding ding ding ding. Oh, good. That's good guess. Leonardo DiCaprio.
Nick VinZant 45:34
Oh, I bet he's like 49
John Shull 45:37
Ding ding ding ding ding tuner. Oh, is he?
Nick VinZant 45:40
49? Because I thought like, oh, you probably would have heard something if he turned 50 by now. He
John Shull 45:45
is 49 years old.
Nick VinZant 45:49
Who, man? Okay. Okay, man.
John Shull 45:51
Three year. Let's go for a three peat here. Danny. DeVito. Ad. Oof. Brutal. 79 all brutal. Clothes. A couple more here. Jennifer Lopez. Oh, strive. 52. Man, you're one off 53.
Nick VinZant 46:18
And what's weird is I'm a terrible judge of age. I can't look at somebody and tell how old they are. At all. Okay, do you think that people younger than us? Look older for their ages? And we did?
John Shull 46:34
No. I mean, I was gonna say no, but I'm sure I look like a. I mean, I still feel like I look pretty young for my age. I'm gonna say no, I feel like the generation below us looks a lot younger.
Nick VinZant 46:50
Oh, I thought that was gonna be a much louder sneeze than that. I gave you a minute for I think that they look older than we did for our ages. I think 20 year olds now look like they're 30 like stress has gotten to them.
John Shull 47:04
I will say I maybe for men, I feel just because the younger folks, I feel have more beards and facial hair, which I think makes you look a little older. I feel our generation. You know, facial hair was obviously there. But I don't think it is what it is today in terms of so many young people rocking it out.
Nick VinZant 47:21
I was watching the NFL Combine because I just like I actually liked the NFL Combine more than I liked the NFL. I bet no, that doesn't make any sense. But it does. See in some of those people like they look like grown men. Like they look more like men than I do. Even though I'm to almost twice their age. In some cases, well, not twice your age, but at least 10 to 15 years older. Like that's a girl that that guy looks like he's 45
John Shull 47:47
It's not that much harder to look older than you. Oh, yeah, I
Nick VinZant 47:51
guess that's true. Okay. Anyway. All right. Last one
John Shull 47:54
here. Al Pacino.
Nick VinZant 47:59
8183 83, man, I'm ready. Are you ready? Born. So our top five is top five birthdays. What ages are do you think are the best birthdays? to number five?
John Shull 48:16
It's my number five. And I think this is going to be not very popular. But I'm going to say 50 as my number five.
Nick VinZant 48:26
But you haven't turned 50 yet? How do you know it's going to be a good birthday?
John Shull 48:30
Oh, am I supposed to like just do the ones that I've that? I've had like my I
Nick VinZant 48:34
mean, generally like what would you need to have some kind of personal experience with it? I mean, why do you think 50 is going to be a good birthday.
John Shull 48:41
I've been to 50/50 birthday parties.
Nick VinZant 48:43
You just thought this seems awesome to be 50. Because I feel
John Shull 48:47
like 50 Is that age where you're kind of leaving behind the first half of your life. You know, like you, your kids, you know, if you have a traditional life and I know most of us don't. But let's just say we do. Your kids are getting grown. They're probably in college, maybe out of college. You're hitting that almost, you know, 1015 years to go before your butt to hit retirements. Like you probably have a comfy chair that you like, you have a cup of coffee every morning. Like you know, you're not going out drinking till 4am then back up at 8am anymore. You know, just I feel like 50 is a good benchmark of a birthday to try to hit.
Nick VinZant 49:25
I can kind of see that right? You're kind of on the homestretch. you've established yourself. You're a little bit on the homestretch. But you are also a very old man.
John Shull 49:34
I am you should see my book collection.
Nick VinZant 49:38
How many submarines Do you have? How many books about submarines? Do you have now any more new submarine books
John Shull 49:44
have read zero submarine books in 2024 audio
Nick VinZant 49:47
tape because your eyes are gone?
John Shull 49:50
No. Surprisingly enough, man. That's a whole nother conversation.
Nick VinZant 49:55
Oh boy. Yeah, he's going I really they're not they're not
John Shull 49:59
getting any better. Yeah, that's for sure.
Nick VinZant 50:01
Well, let's just not talk about it. My number five is 2525, I think is a big birthday because it's the car insurance birthday. And you really noticed that stuff starts to get cheaper like 25. I was like, Yeah, car insurance going down. 25 is a big year.
John Shull 50:18
Yeah, I it's not on my list. But you know,
Nick VinZant 50:22
you're kind of established as a like a young adult.
John Shull 50:26
My number four, I'm gonna go with 13 Not 16. Not 10. But 13.
Nick VinZant 50:34
Okay, why 13? Because he beauty first time little Johnny was able to notice in some girls around town,
John Shull 50:43
don't you worry about little Johnny. No, I feel like 13 You're still you're still a kid. You don't you haven't been exposed to a lot of like the adult. Like, I feel like when you're 16 it's, you know, maybe a little drinkin maybe some girls or boys, whatever, you know, whatever. But when you're 13 you're still like, yeah, I want you know, trading cards, and GI Joes and Barbies and play sets. And you know, you're still kind of a kid at heart at 13. And, for me, you can see that yeah, for me 13 was a special birthday because it's like one of the first birthdays I remember where I got, like, you know, gifts and stuff. So
Nick VinZant 51:22
I don't really remember any of my birthdays is like a kid. But I can see that I would put that age closer to 10 to 1213. You're probably an eighth grader. You're like, I'm getting ready to go to high school in high school and go
John Shull 51:35
fast and get chicks anyways. All right.
Nick VinZant 51:39
My number four is 18. It's more like a trap birthday. Like, oh, now you're a responsible adult, and you can be legally prosecuted as an adult. But you don't really get a lot of benefits. Yeah,
John Shull 51:51
you're right. I think you said a perfectly 18 is a trap birthday. Like it's Do you even remember? 18? Not really me either.
Nick VinZant 52:01
Yeah, it is like 18 is a trap birthday. Because you get all the responsibility, but none of the rewards. Yeah, like, oh, you can buy cigarettes like
John Shull 52:14
my dad Newports since I was 11.
Nick VinZant 52:17
That's kind of crazy that the trade off for being 18 is like you can buy cigarettes. Oh, and also we can draft you to go fight in a war. But you can buy cigarettes. Like that's a trap birthday.
John Shull 52:28
Once again, it's rules that don't make a whole lot of sense. Because you're number three. So once again, I did like, future me. And I put 75 as my number three.
Nick VinZant 52:42
I don't think you're gonna make it to 75. Man. Oh, I mean, how do you know that you're like, that's not a given. 75 is like I don't?
John Shull 52:51
What's it? I'm just going to
Nick VinZant 52:53
death is approaching like, congratulations, you ain't come you don't have to do this much longer. I
John Shull 52:58
put 75 on the list. Because in my mind, I feel if I am able to get to 75 How wonderful would it be to look back on your life on that day and just think of all the things you've done accomplished your family? Maybe your loved ones still with you? Like, I feel like 75 years still meant most? Well, not most, you have the possibility of still being mentally there. But like, obviously, you're diminishing a little bit. So like, it's, I feel like it's a last big birthday. Number wise once you get up that high to where you can kind of cognitively be aware.
Nick VinZant 53:36
Okay, I can kind of see that. I think it would be a big birthday. But that's really going to depend on your life. Like if you're in pretty good health 75 is could be a great birthday. But if things are going downhill, it's not gonna be a good year for you like, oh, it's only gonna get worse.
John Shull 53:50
I mean, you ever seen Brendan Fraser in the whale? Because that's where I had. Oh,
Nick VinZant 53:56
no, you working out now. Oh, God, you just weren't working out. My number three is 20 My number three is 21. Okay, it's kind of cool. It wasn't that big of a deal. Because I mean, for us, like at that age, you are already doing all that stuff anyway. It's not like oh, I'm 21 now it's first time. So but it's kind of cool. I think 21 is a big birthday.
John Shull 54:17
I agree the 21 is most definitely a big birthday. So I mean, I have 75 I'm gonna go to the other extreme now and I'm going to put the age of eight as my number two.
Nick VinZant 54:32
Oh, okay. Like a little kid birthday. I mean, he's probably pretty sweet like birthday parties and stuff. Yeah,
John Shull 54:38
birthday parties all your friends are there you know, once again you're eight years old right? So you don't have to worry about the cops you have to worry about breaking right laws rules. You can chuck a you know a ball pit ball at some dad and piss him off and he can't do anything to you. You know, just a it's like, I feel like eight is the perfect sweet spot to be a little kid like a little little kid and have fun and birthday party. My
Nick VinZant 55:01
number two is 30. Okay, I think 30 is the year when suddenly all of all things just 30 is the year when everything becomes okay. Like you just suddenly like, you have all these problems at 29. And then you turn 30. And you're just like, all right. It's life. No big deal. See, it comes, okay.
John Shull 55:26
I think actually 30 it got worse for me. I felt like I didn't have any real worries until I hit 30. And then everything has piled on now.
Nick VinZant 55:38
But I think you finally realize that you can only do what you can do. I feel like that's what happens at 30. You realize, like, I can only do what I can do. I can't control this
John Shull 55:47
other stuff. It's a little bit of maturity coming in there.
Nick VinZant 55:51
Yeah, I bet we both have seen number one. cheered number one.
John Shull 55:54
We do not actually, my number one is 21. Oh,
Nick VinZant 55:59
you don't have 16 on there at all. That's like the that's 16 or driving age, wherever you live, I think is the biggest birthday. Because that is your first taste of real independence as a person.
John Shull 56:12
No, I don't have I don't have an over 16 of 1820 ones on there. Just because 21 is kind of like that final hurrah of your childhood if you're able to, you know, live I guess the American dream, so to speak, go to college, whatever. Like 21 is kind of like well, I'm gonna be graduating soon out of the real world. Like, and plus my 21/21 birthday party was fantastic. So
Nick VinZant 56:41
did you did you have a drink?
John Shull 56:45
two fists, actually. Oh, oh, it was oh, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Nick VinZant 56:50
Rough day. The next day. I didn't do that at all. I feel like I've never really had the desire to get purposely just sick hammered. But yeah, it's not fun.
John Shull 57:00
I've been with you on multiple occasions where it just happens. Yeah, it just happens.
Nick VinZant 57:05
But I wasn't trying to be like, I'm gonna put both of these down. Do you have any arm dimensions? I
John Shull 57:11
mean, not not robbing. You kind of mentioned them. I mean, I do have 16 on the arrow mentioned, but just because I feel like you have to have that. I also have 40 If I haven't turned 40 yet, but I feel like 40 is another gateway birthday. But other than that, not really. When's your birthday?
Nick VinZant 57:27
March 16 Oh, I know. I know. Yeah. Coming up.
John Shull 57:31
It is coming up on Saturday
Nick VinZant 57:32
for anybody listening to give me gift. Donate donate to your local me. Just send me money.
John Shull 57:40
We'll put out your your venmo Venmo donate to my Venmo well start a GoFundMe for free birthday.
Nick VinZant 57:46
Can any Can you just start a GoFundMe for no reason like GoFundMe cuz I need money.
John Shull 57:52
I mean, I think you can I mean, I don't see why. Why you could
Nick VinZant 57:58
just provide nothing GoFundMe for no reason whatsoever. Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. It really helps out the show and let us know what you think are the best birthdays. I don't really know why. A 35 ish year old man is saying that 50 and 75 are the best birthdays but he's an old soul.
What really happens inside a Las Vegas Gentlemen’s club. “Daisy” has spent years working at some of Las Vegas most popular clubs. Go behind the pole and into the VIP sections as we talk making thousands in one night, unusual requests and life outside the club. Then, we unveil a new Candle of the Month and countdown the Top 5 Practical Superpowers.
Code: pointless50
“Daisy”: 01:18
Pointless: 27:24
Candle of the Month: 42:14
Top 5 Practical Superpowers: 45:29
Nick VinZant 0:12
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, exotic dancing, and practical superpowers,
"Daisy" 0:21
it was never something I saw myself doing or even thought about. But at that point, I was like, Well, how am I going to make this money in two, three days. So being almost like a little bit feminine, I had one guy, and he just like, so strange. He just wanted to sit on my lap, like, and for me to literally hold them like a child. I just think that once you get used to having this freedom and making so much money, it's just hard to go back to anything else.
Nick VinZant 0:47
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest is going to give us an inside look at what some of Las Vegas is busiest gentlemen clubs are really like, this is exotic dancer. Daisy, how'd you get started in this,
"Daisy" 1:20
you know, actually got started. Maybe about a couple months after I turned 18 It was my very first month, I got my own apartment, I was very proud of myself, I was working at a sushi place as a server. And then a couple of days before rent was due. I went to a party and so I'm broken into two of my windows, so I had to get those fixed. And then the day that I got those fixed, I parked in my apartment complex, but I parked in the spot over from my assigned parking spot. And someone called the tow truck on me and got my car towed. So between those two things, getting my car out of impound and fixing my windows, that was my rent money for the month, I called my mom and told her what happened. And she basically just said, like, you're an adult, figure it out. I don't know what to tell you. And I have tried friends, girlfriends who had danced, and it was never something I saw myself doing or even thought about. But at that point, I was like, Well, how am I gonna make this money in two, three days? So that night me and my girlfriend roommate went and auditioned at one of the clubs in Reno, where I had started, did
Nick VinZant 2:24
you like it? Or for you? Is this like, I gotta make money? And this is how I'm gonna do it.
"Daisy" 2:29
Um, at first, yeah. Very money motivated. Like I said, it was never something that I thought about doing. It was actually something that I kind of looked down on with my friends who did it. It just was like, oh, that's something I was doing. I wouldn't do that. But yeah, it's definitely very, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I didn't even really know what a lap dance was. I thought that all the girls had made their money on stage, which is really quite the opposite of what it's like,
Nick VinZant 2:57
how do you just start doing it? Do you audition? Like, how do you go in there? They're just like, alright, you look this way. We like the way you look, go up there. Oh,
"Daisy" 3:06
I had no skills at all. But yeah, so most clubs do you have to do an audition, every audition for the club is different. Some they do make you go on stage and do a full set. Some you just go on stage for like 15 seconds, others you they just look at you and say you're hired or you put on a bikini and do like little walk for them. The club that I auditioned at for the first time, basically just looked at us and said, You guys are fine. I didn't go on stage, my first night dancing, they gave me a couple of shifts before they made me go on stage. You don't make most of your money from stage, especially here in Vegas. Like you go on stage maybe once a night if you go on stage, because how many girls there are. But I would say the biggest part of it is just being able to talk to people and find a common ground with them and relate with them. I would say talking is the biggest part of it.
Nick VinZant 3:56
Why is that? So then if you're not on the stage, you're just kind of walking around the club.
"Daisy" 4:02
Yeah, so you're walking around the club. Just talking with customers. And the biggest thing is trying to get them to do a VIP with you. So it's like a private
Nick VinZant 4:11
room. Now that what happens in the private room, here in Vegas,
"Daisy" 4:15
really not much can happen. There are cameras everywhere. They're very strict and on top of it, so it's really just a room that comes to the couch. They have to buy drinks. And I would say for me, I mostly do a lot of talking. But obviously the guys do like you to dance. But I try to talk as much as I can.
Nick VinZant 4:37
Do they seem to be there more for like physical attention? Are they really there in some ways just to kind of have somebody to talk to
"Daisy" 4:45
and my experience I feel like a lot of guys just really want the companionship, kind of half and half 5050 Are
Nick VinZant 4:52
you naturally pretty like I'm going to come up to somebody or did you really have to kind of learn that look at it like at a job? Um,
"Daisy" 4:58
yeah, you'd have I just have to force yourself to go up and talk to everyone. And I would say, for the first, at least like five people to go up to you, you're gonna get rejected. So just staying persistent and going through and just talking to every single person, like, not finding excuses not to talk to them. Because you really, you never know, it could be that one guy, and they might not look like they're gonna spend money, but you just can't judge a book by its cover, and then not staying with someone for too long. If they're not paying you. Can
Nick VinZant 5:27
you kind of size them up a little bit? Can you look at people and be like, Oh, that's a good one. I don't worry about that person. No,
"Daisy" 5:34
you really cannot judge a book by its cover. I'll see you guys Mike. Oh, look at the watch. They're wearing a look at the clothes they're wearing and walk up to them. But they don't want to spend a dime. And then I've walked up to people who don't look like they have much and they will spend more.
Nick VinZant 5:47
So how much like how much will you make in a good night?
"Daisy" 5:52
Um, I would say the most I've made in the club on a good night would be so it's all about getting people to tip you. Tips, tips, tips. I would say an average night here in sapphire would be like 800 to like 1500 in a night. Obviously, you do have slow nights, there have been nights where I went to work. Most of the time if I stay work the whole night, I'll make money but if I leave early like all I have left with 30 to 50 bucks before or even nothing. Yeah, that's average the most I've made and and I at the club would be probably be around like three to 4000.
Nick VinZant 6:28
That's really good money, though. It is. Yeah.
"Daisy" 6:31
But the thing is making good money like fast money like that is you make it fast, and you spend it fast, too. So just have to be really, really careful with not having that mindset. Oh, I'll make it back. I'll make it back. Because I feel like that's the mindset a lot of girls have.
Nick VinZant 6:45
Do they kind of get sucked into a trap? Yes,
"Daisy" 6:48
definitely. So when I first started dancing, I told myself that I wouldn't dance for more than two years, it wouldn't I would never be something that I relied on. And here I am. I'm 25 now so like seven, almost eight years later.
Nick VinZant 7:04
Yeah, that would be like the kind of the existential question, right? Like there's the money that you make, and that keep you from doing something that you might otherwise really want to do. Yeah,
"Daisy" 7:14
I don't why so? Yeah, I have I am license. I'm a licensed cosmetologist and I was working in a salon for three years. Mainly, the money is really good. But I would say like the part of it that really got me was just the freedom that comes with it. I can I don't have a schedule. No one's telling me when I have to be at work, I can leave work whenever I want. If I wanted to plan a trip tomorrow, I could. So just the freedom that comes with it.
Nick VinZant 7:43
Oh, so you don't have like a schedule like you don't like hey, come nine to two or something like that you just whenever you want.
"Daisy" 7:49
Whenever Yeah, I know there are some clubs that do give you like a little bit of schedule or like a time you can check in. But all the clubs that I have worked out is you can show up whenever you want and leave whenever you want. The only thing is that you have to pay a house fee to work at the beginning of the night, which can range from anywhere from like 50 to $150.
Nick VinZant 8:08
You have to pay the place to work. Yes.
"Daisy" 8:12
So that's what a lot of customers don't think or realize is we're paying dancers more to be there than the customers to get in. Why is that? It's just the way that the club makes money. So the club that I work at is really good. We pay a house at the beginning of the night, but we keep all of our money. So we tip at our own discretion. So any of the floor dances that we do our VIP dances that we do we keep all of that the way the club makes the money as our house fees and the drinks basically.
Nick VinZant 8:41
So how competitive is it to get into like the really good clubs in Vegas? For a dancer for a dancer? Getting
"Daisy" 8:48
in isn't the hard part but definitely in Las Vegas. There's just so many so so many girls who are all so so beautiful. Every girl here no hair, nails body done everything. It's all it's a big competition. Especially at the club. I work here in Vegas is really very large. There can be anywhere from like two to 400 girls working at night.
Nick VinZant 9:10
400 people working a night. Yeah. How do you even compete with that debt?
"Daisy" 9:16
It's it's really really very difficult. I would say um, if a girl has something that makes him stand out, it's helpful like for example my hair guys really liked my hair at the blonde and the brunette so it's like two on one kind of
Nick VinZant 9:31
is all the competition between the girls kind of on the up and up or like you got to be a little you got to be a little sly. There
"Daisy" 9:39
can be a little bit but what the clubs here in Vegas there's also so many clients and customers and business to go around that I haven't I've never personally had any issues with girls. Maybe you get kind of irritated like if a girl overstepped her boundaries. Like if you're sitting on a guy's ever seen in a guy's laboratory. No, my girl isn't going to typically go up and like try to steal from you. So there's etiquette that girls I pretty follow. There's definitely girls who are a bit more aggressive and overstep boundaries. But it's something that I've had an issue or really seen issues of
Nick VinZant 10:11
when we talk about like the VIP rooms and the lap dances. Is there anything else that goes on in there? Or is it Vegas
"Daisy" 10:18
is really strict. There's cameras everywhere, there's cameras on the floor, there's cameras in every VIP room. So, no, but I do know there are some clubs with like, if you're really in with the host, so you could like tip them off, and they'll turn an eye. But I would say for the most part, it's impossible to get away with anything like that. And if you do get caught, you'll be terminated. But I feel like something girls do. Here in the strip clubs is like meet with clients after work. Like they don't want to waste their jobs here in Vegas at the strip club.
Nick VinZant 10:51
How often would you say that? That happens?
"Daisy" 10:54
I would say very often. Very, very often. Very.
Nick VinZant 10:59
So now, do you ever do that?
"Daisy" 11:02
Yeah. It's happened a couple of times before?
Nick VinZant 11:05
Why in those circumstances like, Okay, I'm going to do that now. But I'm not going to do that. In this other circumstance.
"Daisy" 11:12
Some guys just don't like spending money in the club, they just would prefer to pay you outside of the club. So if I'm like having a not great night at the club, and a guy is willing to pay for me, my friends to meet him after then we'll typically take them up on it.
Nick VinZant 11:27
Is that going the whole way? Um,
"Daisy" 11:29
sometimes Yeah. Other times. Gambling is a big thing here in Vegas. So even just going and meeting up with them and gambling with them. But you know, guys are guys, they want what they want. That's the time like
Nick VinZant 11:42
we've kind of hinted at it. But I'm assuming that sometimes when you meet somebody after that sex may be involved. Yeah. In those circumstances, do you feel a certain way about it? Are you just like, I got my money. And this is how it is?
"Daisy" 11:58
Um, I feel like it's just one of those disassociative things when it happens. Yeah, yes, get your money. And don't really think about it.
Nick VinZant 12:11
Do you feel though like other people might not really understand that.
"Daisy" 12:16
I don't think anyone understands it. How come? It's just unless you're involved or a part of it, I don't really think it's something that people understand. Do
Nick VinZant 12:28
you ever worry that you may look back at this time in life and be like, yeah, wish I wouldn't have done that? Yeah,
"Daisy" 12:34
all the time. But did you feel right now, as of right now, I am happy with the life I live and the choices that I make, and I'm fine with it. But yeah, I do think maybe later down the road, I'm gonna look back and everything might catch up to me. And like, dang, that's something I regret.
Nick VinZant 12:53
But I think everybody has that, don't they?
"Daisy" 12:55
Yeah, that's that comes with life. People regret a lot of things they do in life. Is
Nick VinZant 13:00
there a difference between the people who do this and like, Look, I just wanted to make a whole bunch of money versus like, this is what I had to do.
"Daisy" 13:08
Um, yeah, I think everyone is in different situations. Like, some people do it to survive, and some people do it to get ahead.
Nick VinZant 13:20
Is it an industry where people have a long shelf life? Like, Well, you see people in their 30s 40s 50s Do it? Oh,
"Daisy" 13:28
yeah, I do. And I do not know how there's still they're doing it. I told myself, even now I'm so burnt out like, and since I started when I was 18, I do take breaks, like, during COVID. I took about a year break. When I lived in Reno and danced, I would take winters off. Here now, even now here in Vegas, I probably only go to the club about once a week. Yeah, you really have to take care of yourself. And it's really, really easy to get burnt out very quickly. Just when you've just meet so many people deal with so many different people and different personalities. It's very draining. And then on top of that you're drinking, among other things, which is also very tiring and hard on your body.
Nick VinZant 14:14
We have some listener submitted questions, but not Yeah, you want to do those? Yeah. What type of dancer generally makes the most money? Obviously, if
"Daisy" 14:25
you're pretty and attractive, it is helpful in any instance in life, I feel like but no, I would say the girls who make the most money are just probably the girls who are the most confident and just can go up and talk to anyone. I would say just the girls who can talk and relate to people and aren't afraid to walk up to anyone and everyone. Does
Nick VinZant 14:44
that change at all like Okay, a couple of years ago, it was the really skinny girls and now it's the
"Daisy" 14:50
no I don't think so it's just finding that guy who's going to be into you, which comes to just talking to every single guy and finding that person who you're going to connect with Because guys all have different types,
Nick VinZant 15:02
older guy or younger guy,
"Daisy" 15:03
I would say typically older white men. I don't know why Indian guys really like me assumed to be attracted to me and enjoy my company. But yeah, I would say those are the two main guys.
Nick VinZant 15:20
Do you have like a type? Yeah,
"Daisy" 15:22
so for mine, I would say it would be older white guys or Indian guys and Asians, Asians too. I'm very, I am very open to walk up to them.
Nick VinZant 15:33
What days are generally the most lucrative what times are usually the most lucrative? Definitely
"Daisy" 15:39
the weekends, Friday, Saturday, Thursdays to, I would say the busiest times would be probably like 11pm to two 3am. But some girls like sometimes the weekends can just be really overwhelming and very, very chaotic. I know some girls who prefer the weekdays, when it's a little bit calmer and not just so much of a party crowd.
Nick VinZant 16:03
Do you have to have a good relationship with the bouncers in order to get the best clients?
"Daisy" 16:08
Yeah, definitely, it helps being in with the bouncers because they'll put you on to the good clients, which makes it a lot easier. So you're not just having to walk up to any random person you see. So it is helpful being of the bouncers who can be like, Okay, this is going to be a good group, like walk up to them. But when you do that, the bouncers typically expect like a 20% tip out on whatever you make. And I've seen girls get fired for not tipping out from that.
Nick VinZant 16:35
Do people kind of come in and out of the industry? Yeah,
"Daisy" 16:38
I definitely. I feel like I've known about so many girls who they're quitting and then a couple months or however long later i They're back.
Nick VinZant 16:46
Why do you think that is? Like, what is it?
"Daisy" 16:49
I just think that once you get used to having this freedom and making so much money, it's just hard to go back to anything else. Because there's so many times I have thought about going back and just getting a regular job or going back to the hair salon. And it's just so hard to go from making so much to not and like I can make potentially $3,000 in a night. Like I don't want to go back and work at the hair salon and make that after like a week, two weeks, you know,
Nick VinZant 17:18
it's do you feel like it's a trap in any way?
"Daisy" 17:21
Yeah, I definitely feel trapped a lot or like I'm in this endless cycle.
Nick VinZant 17:28
Is there is there any stigma in it? In Vegas? Like do you feel like Vegas has less of a stigma or more of a stigma about it?
"Daisy" 17:35
Um, I would say probably a lot less just because of how so common it is. For girls to dance or be dancers. But I guess the stigma that comes with it is maybe just like when it comes to dating or relationships and like how guys see us I don't really know a lot of dancers who are in healthy relationships. Or I feel like people just have this idea of us like we don't respect ourselves or we're just like dirty filthy whores you know, but I feel like that's so far from the truth for me personally just because I feel like in the club I give so much of my time and energy and I guess in a sense body to guys that outside of the club I'm really picky with who I do give my energy and time to does
Nick VinZant 18:29
it make it hard kind of to to have a life outside of it.
"Daisy" 18:33
Very difficult. I've been single for three years I haven't even since then been close to being in relationship I almost don't want to be in a relationship with a guy that is okay with me doing this
Nick VinZant 18:47
that doesn't make sense and make sense at the same time. Yeah,
"Daisy" 18:50
yeah, the guy that I want I don't think I would want them to be okay with me doing what I do. Um,
Nick VinZant 18:57
what is your most interesting request
"Daisy" 19:00
um, something that goes off the top of my head is a lot of guys are really into being degraded or being almost like a little bit feminine I had one guy and he just like so strange he just wanted to sit on my lap like and for me to literally hold him like a child and then he also like wanted to get on my back and like me walk around the room
Nick VinZant 19:25
wait what he wanted you to get on your well like me give him like
"Daisy" 19:29
a piggyback ride like on all fours are like on your shoulders like carrying on like standing. Are you strong enough
Nick VinZant 19:37
to do that? Like that's I
"Daisy" 19:38
was Yeah, I was this one guy.
Nick VinZant 19:42
How did that conversation even come up?
"Daisy" 19:45
I'm just at the very beginning of the dance. He just told me what do you wanted?
Nick VinZant 19:50
Oh, good. I guess man whatever gets you right to
"Daisy" 19:54
each their own. Another really weird thing is I when guys say like oh my gosh, you're It's like the same age as my daughter just go on and on about that just so weird. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 20:05
there is a thing like, Look, I've entered this stage of life, where you start to no longer be able to communicate with younger people. And like you just, he just sound like an idiot. But a
"Daisy" 20:16
lot of guys sometimes just really love to sit there and talk and just hear about like, our lives.
Nick VinZant 20:24
Why do you think that people are kind of fascinated by it?
"Daisy" 20:29
Just because it's a whole new world, like, even me when I started dancing. I was very shocked by the industry, just an interesting industry. And it's very different from everyday normal lives.
Nick VinZant 20:43
So you've danced in Reno and in in Vegas? Yeah. How are those two different would you say that like, Oh,
"Daisy" 20:50
are you very different. The clubs in Reno are a lot different in the sense of everything is a lot more laid back. So there's not really cameras in there, AP can definitely get away with a lot more up there. And then also, the competition is a lot less in Reno as well. When I was living in Reno, I always was very, very confident and how I looked and my body and then I moved to Vegas, and I just as humbled very, very quickly, by the girls I was surrounded with. I was like, Oh, wow. I am. Yeah. To
Nick VinZant 21:23
really make some money in Vegas. Not necessarily that you're not, but like to really make some money to girls have to augment themselves. I don't know how you want to know what I'm talking about. But yeah,
"Daisy" 21:36
um, so since living in Vegas, I have had my nose down and my boobs done. And I actually just scheduled my surgery to get a beat a skinny BBL, which I will be doing at the end of summer. But yeah, every majority of girls like I would say 80 to 90% of girls here have all of those things done on top of like, their hair extensions, fillers, Botox, everything that comes with it nails. Girls put a lot investing into their looks here.
Nick VinZant 22:07
What's the skinny bbl? I don't know what that is.
"Daisy" 22:10
It's just it's a regular maybe all but for just a petite girl. A
Nick VinZant 22:13
Brazilian Butt Lift? Is that what it is? Okay.
"Daisy" 22:16
Yeah,
Nick VinZant 22:17
I can't keep track all these acronyms. I
"Daisy" 22:19
know, it's not so much. It's a lot to keep up.
Nick VinZant 22:21
But would you say like looking at it. Like this is a return on investment, business decision kind of thing where if I spent five grand on this surgery, I know that my profits are going to go up.
"Daisy" 22:32
Honest, in a way I feel like the only reason that it does go up is because it does build your confidence. And when your confidence it just makes it a lot easier to talk to people. But like I said, I see girls who maybe aren't the best looking who make way more than girls who do have all that stuff done. I feel like it's all just a mindset.
Nick VinZant 22:52
This one of our questions, right, like does the best looking girl make the most money?
"Daisy" 22:56
I don't think so. Now,
Nick VinZant 22:59
what's the best song in
"Daisy" 23:00
the club? For me personally, I if I were to pick a song, I like the song hypnotized by plays, which is a way older songs.
Nick VinZant 23:08
Do guys sometimes just do their thing in the club?
"Daisy" 23:12
What do you mean do their thing? Yeah, I remember. I was working in Reno at the club. And it was, I think my second night working ever in the club. And I had gotten a VIP with a guy. And it was one of those rooms where it was a separate room from the club. But there was just dividers with other people in the room. So it wasn't completely private, but it was just a little more private than like the regular room. And I had not even started dancing barely. You got to 15 minutes. I think he paid like 150 for that. And within a couple of seconds he had to unzipped his pants and took it out and I was like, What are you doing? And he was like, Oh, you don't buck for 150 and it was just so shocking. Like I said it was my second eye ever working. I immediately went and told the bouncer and basically gave him one morning and said like Don't do that again, or else you're gonna get kicked out. So yeah, I had to finish the dance, which is very, very uncomfortable.
Nick VinZant 24:09
You went back and finished it. Yeah.
"Daisy" 24:13
So I think here if that happened in Vegas this day, they would have immediately kicked him out. But like I said, this was in Reno, and they just gave him a warning.
Nick VinZant 24:22
Have you ever had any celebrity clients?
"Daisy" 24:25
Yeah, so working in Vegas. There's definitely a lot of celebrities. Mainly robbers that I know that come into the clubs a lot. Yeah, big name robbers mostly.
Nick VinZant 24:39
Do they tip well, are they not tip? Well, the cheaper they throw it around a little bit. They like to show off
"Daisy" 24:45
and throw a lot of money. Yeah, but then when they do. There's typically like a lot of girls in the room. So the money has to be split up individually which doesn't really turn out to be that much usually, but they do like to show off and throw a lot of money.
Nick VinZant 24:59
What advice would you give to somebody that was thinking about doing this? Ah,
"Daisy" 25:04
gosh, um, I would just say, just be really smart with their money because this is not something that you can do forever. Yeah, just be smart and save your money and create boundaries for yourself and just don't let people cross those boundaries.
Nick VinZant 25:25
That's pretty much all the questions I have. If anybody wants to learn more about you or anything like that, what should they do? Instagram?
"Daisy" 25:32
Yeah, if they wanted to follow me on Instagram, or ask me any direct questions through the DMS.
Nick VinZant 25:41
I want to thank Daisy so much for joining us if you want to connect with her, we have linked to her on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram, and YouTube. And we've also included her information in the episode description. If you want to see more of this interview, the YouTube version will be live on March 7, at 12:30pm Pacific. So real quick, I want to take a moment and thank one of the sponsors of our show factor. Eating better is just so much easier with factor. They've got delicious, ready to eat meals. They're always fresh, never frozen, curated by chefs dietician approved, and they are ready to go in just two minutes, we recently got a box and they were really good. And really easy. Didn't have to think about what to eat didn't have to think about if it was healthy or not, just pop it in the microwave. And in two minutes, you are ready to go. And they've got all kinds of options. More than 60 add ons that can help you stay fueled up and feeling good all day long. Pancakes, smoothies, no prep, no mess, and they are flexible for your schedule, you can get as much or as little as you would like. And right now, they are offering a special discount just for our listeners. Here, all you have to do is head over to factor meals.com/pointless 50 and use code pointless 50 to get 50% off, that's code pointless 50 at factor meals.com/pointless 50 to get 50% off, they are really good. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw, and get to the pointless part of the show. Okay, if you could somehow go back in time. Do you think your younger self would listen to your older self?
John Shull 27:38
No, but I think that's that's the way life is. I feel like nobody when you're young, listens to people that say they're experienced, whatever. I
Nick VinZant 27:49
know what you mean, right? I think that as you get older, you find this equal combination of oh, I should have listened to those people. They were right. And oh, why did I ever listen to those people, they have no idea what they're talking about.
John Shull 28:00
I mean, if we listen to the older adults, as younger people, you're not going to have any fun. You're not going to have any life experiences, you're going to be essentially a robot probably,
Nick VinZant 28:12
how many influential older people would you say that you had in your life? Not a relative, but someone who was older than you that you would say was influential in a positive way in your life.
John Shull 28:24
I mean, I'm gonna say less than 10. But it might be less than five. If I really thought about it. I
Nick VinZant 28:30
can only think of two people in my life that were influential in a positive way who are older than me, but I pulled the audience 65% of people said yes. 35% said, no, they probably would not listen. I don't know if I would listen to me. No, I mean, in some ways, your parents are kind of like you and you don't really listen to them. Do you listen to your parents? No. Yeah, I don't really listen to my parents either. Yeah, I just
John Shull 28:55
couldn't see myself at a younger age listening to me now, I'd be like, Okay, let's see where life takes us. In
Nick VinZant 29:03
your life. Do you think that you have had more good examples of what to do? Or more bad examples of what not to do? It's probably
John Shull 29:11
5050. Maybe leaning, doing the right things?
Nick VinZant 29:15
I would say mine is probably a little closer to more examples of people who did things the wrong way. Like, oh, I shouldn't do that. Okay. All right.
John Shull 29:25
All right. Well, here we go. Let's give some shout outs. We'll start with West Blackwell. Jacob flax Colton gains like a good Colton. Every now and again. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 29:37
very limited needs to be very limited.
John Shull 29:42
Ty King, Jerry Martinez, Omar Khan. Gabe, Sid. Matthew, this can't be real. Matthew McConaughey Jr. The second. I don't think that's real, but it made me laugh when I was reading it regardless of We'll cosec Maxwell de WITTs. And we're going to end here once again. I know this isn't a real last name, but it made me laugh. Aleksander silver hammer. And
Nick VinZant 30:11
it doesn't take a lot does it? It's the guy's name is silver hammer. Ah, that's
John Shull 30:16
that's a strong last name though. There, you know if it was
Nick VinZant 30:19
a hammer. Do you wish you had a manly or last name?
John Shull 30:23
I mean, I wish I had a different last name sometimes. Yes. Like, how great would it be to, you know, have the last name of gold hammer or silver hammer or Iron Fist? I mean, come on. That'd be awesome. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 30:35
we really should have had better last names. All last names should be more powerful names. There's not enough powerful last names. They're all kind of weenie last name. Like VinZant.
John Shull 30:49
Show I have one syllable show.
Nick VinZant 30:52
There's not enough sweet last names.
John Shull 30:54
I would have loved to have had a cool anchor name though. I don't have to be an anchor or Reporter But you know, like, like a cool name like a. I don't even know what that is. But I would just would have loved to have one. Alright, let's, let's see how you react to some of these quickfire topics here. Which you'll probably end up ruining, but we'll try anyways. We'll start with this one, a moon pod.
Nick VinZant 31:18
What's a moon pod? Apparently,
John Shull 31:20
they're going to start going on sale. And it says essentially, it's a gigantic beanbag chair. But it's shaped like the moon and it's supposed to go around your body and just provide ultimate comfort.
Nick VinZant 31:35
How have we not reached ultimate comfort by now? Like if we haven't figured out already? What's the best pillow bed couch, whatever, we're not gonna figure it out. Like How complicated can this be? Like? No, no, no, change the shape on the end and make it a hexagon. And then this will revolutionize the comfort industry? Like how have we not received maximum comfort already? Willy
John Shull 32:00
Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
Nick VinZant 32:03
They should have left that alone. Gene Wilder is the definitive Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. And that's one of those movies that they should just stop remaking stop messing with it, they achieve perfection and the best that that is going to be with that one movie, and it's never going to be replaced. And every other time that they try to do it, it's just going to be a forgettable waste of time. Stop remaking that movie.
John Shull 32:24
I do really feel in that instance, that if you're not the first and the last, if you're one of those weird ones in the middle, like wasn't Hugh Grant involved in one remake? And then you had ballooned by Johnny Depp and another like, no one's gonna remember those like, no
Nick VinZant 32:39
Gene Wilder did the best that movie that should be one of those things that anybody with a brain should be able to look at that movie and be like, we're not gonna be bad.
John Shull 32:47
It really made me laugh. Alright, this whole Netflix sports idea. I don't know if you saw the last, I guess, live event they did. But it was a tennis match with Rafael Nadal and one of the younger stars, Carlos, Alcatraz or Alcatraz? But regardless, what do you think of the whole Netflix sports live sports concept.
Nick VinZant 33:08
I mean, I'm fine with it, as long as they don't have to pay any more money. But if they keep trying to find ways to try to screw us out of money and try to charge us a little bit more and provide a little bit less, like when now they're trying to get ads in there. And all these kinds of things. It's weird how streaming is basically turning back into cable, but I'm fine with whatever they do, but I'm not paying any more money. I feel like people are starting to put their foot down and like No, we got to put a stop to this. charging people for subscriptions for car things that they already had, where they want to make you pay extra for your heated seats, stuff like that, like dynamic pricing at Wendy's, when they're going to try to charge you based on the time of day, like no, we as a society need to put our foot down and be like, That's enough of this crap.
John Shull 33:48
And that was actually one of my things I was going to ask you about was the dynamic pricing. I think that I'm glad you know, Wendy's, if you're not familiar that Wendy's came out last week, I maybe it leaked out whatever, but it came out that they were going to try possibly something in the future with dynamic pricing, where certain items were going to be more money based on like you said, the time of day, you know, supplies, etc. That is absurd. To me, that is not that I'm necessarily against it. But I think it's absurd. Well, no matter what the circumstances, say you want a I don't know, a breakfast sandwich at McDonald's. And they're running a little low on egg that day. So they they jack the price up a buck. Like that's not fair to the consumer. That's not our fault. Like
Nick VinZant 34:32
this is what I think is going to be a fundamental problem for our society moving forward in the United States is that we're a population that's based on growth and we're not growing anymore. So you got to figure out a way to essentially rip off customers to make more money and we've got to put a stop to it now, because I know you're not doing this.
John Shull 34:49
I mean, I read something and don't fact check me on this because the numbers wrong, but it was something like the if an average household pays 175 bucks. In cable if you have cable
Nick VinZant 35:02
the Oh guy. Yeah, we got like, No way, man, that stuff too expensive. Also, if you have cable, call your cable provider like every two months and say you're gonna quit and they'll keep dropping the price. I used to do that all the time. Well,
John Shull 35:14
so then the second part of that is apparently the average if you don't have cable, but you still use internet through a cable providers that and with streaming services, the average per month was like 150. Anyways, so it's, it's insane. It's insane.
Nick VinZant 35:30
That's why you always got to do the year math man. You always got to do the year math. It's not $10 a month, that's $120 a year. Right? It doesn't seem like I do the year math. That's my philosophy. I'm done preaching
John Shull 35:42
your math, I love it. Um, I just threw this one in there because this was something local to me. But Braylon Edwards, former NFL superstar stopped a robbery in progress of an elderly man. So that's the first part of it. Congratulations, you Braylon possibly a listener, by the way. Secondly, do you think I'm not asking you per se? But do you think of a regular bystanders seeing something like that occur? Do you think they're going to step in? Or look the other way?
Nick VinZant 36:17
I think most people would probably kind of look the other way. It depends a little bit where you live, but I think that most people would look the other way because you just don't know, man. Like you don't know who's got what, or who can do what. But I think if you're a former professional athlete, you have a little bit more leeway in the sense that like, I'm probably gonna be able to handle myself.
John Shull 36:38
I mean, we kind of talked about last week, right? Like, if you're a professional athlete, you're a professional athlete. I mean, you kind of already have a national athlete, you can already have one up on the rest of us. So congratulations on that. Um, all right, kind of staying with a sports theme here March Madness do you care don't you care?
Nick VinZant 36:57
I don't know.
John Shull 37:00
All right, that's fair enough to you can just not care I'd
Nick VinZant 37:03
like to care but then it's one of those things that like oh, I'm excited about it coming up and then when it gets here I'm just like, Okay, I'm not I don't quite see what the amazing thing about it is right like I go eastern Tennessee East like North Eastern western Tennessee is about to take on these people like okay, cool.
John Shull 37:27
Like you just said, Man, or whatever you said it's it's all good. So everyone knows about the girl dad phenomenon that happened a couple of years ago still kind of you know yes, you know what a girl That girl that this girl that this anyways? Well now there's something started called boy dad. Yeah, and I don't really get it because I feel like you know, like, what is it? Well the girl dad phenomenon was like oh look at all these dads that have just girls right it's when you have just or just a girl you don't have to have multiple children. Yeah, it's the same thing for boy dads now they're saying dads who just have boys are you know the greatest this and that because they're they're just great for their boys. I just don't get I don't get any trend like this. I just don't understand it.
Nick VinZant 38:16
I think you get what you get. You know I mean, I guess to answer your question like okay, cool. All right. Well, I don't know don't know don't write girl dad. Now we're back at boy dad's like all right. Yeah. Hey, man. Be happy with what you got. You got one girl one boy. Two boys, two girls, whatever. Nope. Just yet. There's nothing you can do about it. Just stop there. I
John Shull 38:34
love it. I love it. I love that one answer. Hopefully you edit that last part out. Alright, two more things here. One is this the Stanley Cup absurdity, where apparently now like a regular Stanley Cup is going for $150 That's insane. That's insane.
Nick VinZant 38:53
Well, what is it? Is it turning into a collector's item kind of thing. I mean, like,
John Shull 38:57
what they're not. But unless they release a limited edition color. It's just a Tervis tumbler like, it's, I don't get it. I don't
Nick VinZant 39:05
understand how water and hydration all of a sudden became the most important thing and the solve of all life's problems. Like oh, you got this. You broke your leg. Well, you probably just dehydrated. Like I used to have like one drink of water a day, walking past the Bubbler at school. But you could sneak in before they told you to get to class. Like you used to have one drink of water a day and now all of a sudden we have to be hydrated like we're staying in the middle of the ocean. I wandered in $50 for that. That's ridiculous.
John Shull 39:36
It's insane. It's it's about as insane as this final topic I'm going to ask you about which is apparently Gen Z. That's right. Gen Z The Greatest Generation of all wants to bring back landline phones because they want to twirl the cords.
Nick VinZant 39:57
I mean, just connect one to your cell phone like LAN minds aren't coming back. You're still the only man in America who probably has a landline. And it's a waste of how much money is it?
John Shull 40:07
I actually just looked and I was kind of I was kind of flabbergasted it is 1299 A month we pay for this thing. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 40:15
do you that's $144 a year, and you've had it for how long?
John Shull 40:20
Six years? Eight years. All
Nick VinZant 40:23
right. So you're looking at 150 times like six? No, that's $900. You've wasted you've wasted $1,000 on a landline that probably only receives a call what once every month,
John Shull 40:36
no, even once a month. Now, it's probably once a week.
Nick VinZant 40:40
Is it anybody that you know? Yeah,
John Shull 40:43
I mean, the wife and I will call that sometimes instead of our cell phones, because we don't get the greatest reception in my house. Sometimes, well,
Nick VinZant 40:51
maybe invest that money that you could have in better cell phone reception and not in a landline could kill two birds with one stone. I don't care what anybody like whatever one generation wants to do. You want to bring back this, you want to bring back that fine. I do feel like you should maybe have a little bit of a better reason than twisting the cords. I don't know if that's really going to get that thing off the bat. What I want to see come back is ski ballet. I want ski ballet to come back. I don't think I've ever laughed that hard in my entire life. It's incredible. That just
John Shull 41:21
makes me think of that. That video I sent you the other day on Instagram where the skier is going down the hill in some time, some type of world competition. And he runs into one of those flagpoles that he's supposed to go around. And it catches him square on the dick. And he just starts screaming and it's hilariously funny it those
Nick VinZant 41:40
guys are going Ah, so I have to admit, I very rarely watch the things that people send me. If people my wife included, if you're gonna tag me in something on social media, or you're gonna send me something on social media. I don't want to watch it. I don't want to watch it. All right, well, I'm fine. I'm fine. Not knowing I don't like to be sent things. That I'd rather be left alone.
John Shull 42:04
Listen, can we send this to the best part of the month?
Nick VinZant 42:09
Oh, is it girl candle of the month? Okay. Oh, man, March, baby. All right. What am I saying? No, I got it. I got it. It's time. The Outlaw candle connoisseur Rides Again. candle of the month.
John Shull 42:32
Well, Nick, let's, let's take a trip down memory lane. Shall we gotta give a shout out. First off,
Nick VinZant 42:39
can you pick a voice? What voice are you going to do? Because you're trying to go between like three different ones. Just pick one and stick with that for more than three words. In a sense.
John Shull 42:48
I can't Well, we'll stick with this one like my excited voice I guess. Okay, okay. So I gotta give a shout out to Darcy, a friend of a friend apparently listens to the podcast and in talk to the mutual friend we have in common and recommended this. This candle. So shout out to you Darcy, who I've still really never met before. But regardless, I was kind of against it. We'll start off with a company it is by Goose Creek is the company I received. It was a march. I think it was a gift back in January. But I will tell you, it's not only a candle of creativity, but it's a candle of culture. And I'll say that. The title of it is Wonka's golden ticket.
Nick VinZant 43:34
Oh, it's a good title. And obviously,
John Shull 43:37
kind of released sudo li as a promotional item. I'm sure what the movie that's coming out or is due to come out whatever. But beyond all the garbage of cinema. This candle is amazing. It's going to be relatively cheap. I think it's on sale or should be on sale for about half price which should should run you about 12 to $15. It's going to be a three week candle. And if you're looking for what notes it has, well it's Willy Wonka, right and it's wrapped in like a gold film, like a candy bar like the Willy Wonka golden bar. So it's gonna be like chocolate. That nella cream caramel. It's definitely a candle that if you weren't hungry for sweets, as it burns, you will be you'll be oh what smells like chocolate. Well, I can't eat the candle. So I'm gonna go grab a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup or something. But anyways, it's awesome. It's it's a little different than anything I've really showcased before on camera the month but check it out. You can get it from Goose Creek candle.com And once again Darcy shout out to you in
Nick VinZant 44:48
Well listen, when you develop a reputation as a candle kind of sewer. People want to know what you think about candles. Do you feel like you have a sophisticated palette? average power or do you feel like you have kind of a trash She palette when it comes to candles,
John Shull 45:02
I feel like I have an all around kind of palette. I mean, I feel like, especially if you're in the mood for having done this now for what going on two years, at least a year and a half, I've been able to have some great recommendations. It's funny. People like my, my personal friends, my my friend group here, they had no idea. They still don't believe me. Some of them, I'm sure, but I don't know what to tell them. So, yeah, I
Nick VinZant 45:28
wouldn't believe you. You ready for our top five,
John Shull 45:30
let's disappear into the top.
Nick VinZant 45:32
Oh, I see what she did there. So our top five is top five, practical superpowers, like superpowers that you could actually have and use in the real world. And we'd be practical, like, Oh, that would actually be helpful.
John Shull 45:49
What's number five? Number five, and going with being able to read someone's mind.
Nick VinZant 45:57
Oh, I have that a little bit lower on the list, I will just have that a little bit lower on the list.
John Shull 46:04
The reason why it's on my number five is simply I don't think I would ever want to be able to know what people are thinking about me or thinking in general. But I do think it would be good to be able to do that for many different reasons, but I don't really want to be able to, but I do think it's important enough to to put it into a top five list.
Nick VinZant 46:23
I agree. My number five is super strength, but only a little super strength. Like Captain America super strength. I think if you were like the Hulk, that would actually be really hard to exist in the world. So a little bit of super strength, I think would be a great power to have. Well,
John Shull 46:40
our like top fives are kind of indicative of each other because I so I also have superhuman strength on my list, but also a little bit further up the road. My number four, this See, look, my top three were pretty much set. My number four was the one that was kind of iffy. But if I if I have to be put on the spot, I'm gonna go with being able to use teleportation as my number four.
Nick VinZant 47:06
Oh, I think that should be way higher. Once again, I think that should be way higher
John Shull 47:11
and practicality terms it makes sense. But I feel like there's just way too many things that could go wrong. And if you have everyone teleporting, you're gonna have people running in each other, they're gonna be like, you know, showing up in Abu Dhabi, when they mean to go to London like it's, it's going to need some some, some ironing out. But once again, it deserves a place in the top five.
Nick VinZant 47:33
My number four is telepathy, because I agree that like, I think reading somebody's mind would be good, but I don't think you really want to know that much what other people are thinking. So that's why I couldn't put telepathy any higher than like number four.
John Shull 47:47
I mean, I definitely don't want to know what anyone's thinking about me. But like, if I could block that out, maybe. But other than that, yeah, no, I'm good. What's your number three. So number three is X ray vision. And in terms of practicality standpoint, I think, I think would actually be one of the most useful things. And I know we kind of already had it. But I'm talking about like, police on scene of barricaded gunman situations or, you know, fire departments being able to see if anyone's in a house, you know, things like that. I know, we already have thermal and everything like that. But how many times do things like that actually get used in the real world, right? If everyone has access to X ray vision, you know, you would be able to see a lot better and see things more clearly, I guess, than we do now.
Nick VinZant 48:33
I understand what you're going for. I wouldn't put X ray vision on my list, but I could see where it would be really helpful in certain situations. Like get the X ray guy. Yeah. Good old x Clops.
John Shull 48:46
It's, uh, yeah, you know, it's like, I hate use it. You know, I'm not gonna use that analogy. Um, you know, you could use it in any any like business setting. Like, oh, what's Johnny doing in his in his office? Is he sleeping the door shut? Let's take a look. You know, things like that.
Nick VinZant 49:02
Yeah, you get across a lot. Fast. Yeah, well, you're gonna get yourself into some trouble with X ray vision pretty quickly. Didn't say it's not going to take a long
John Shull 49:11
time didn't say it was lawful. But
Nick VinZant 49:14
my number three is super intelligence. Okay, the only reason I wouldn't put super intelligence any higher is because I don't really think being smart gets you that far. I think it's actually in some ways it'd be a curse.
John Shull 49:27
I actually don't have super intelligence on the list because two things one, being super smart like you said, seems to be looked down upon in two. We don't need any more AI type things in this world. All right. We don't need any more super smart anything. All right. Let's just be a species and go from there.
Nick VinZant 49:50
Yeah, well, that's not really what we're gonna do. I don't think yeah, I don't think being super smart would really be that great. Thank you to kind of be just to remind render of how much everybody else sucks. Okay, what's number two? I'm getting into it. Now.
John Shull 50:05
My number two is superhuman speed.
Nick VinZant 50:08
Oh, I thought about super speed a lot. I thought about super speed a lot. I didn't put it on there. But I think super speed would be incredibly helpful. That'd be awesome to have. My number two is flight. I think flight would be a great superpower, not only for like, transportation, you could get around, even if you couldn't fly that fast, you could still go like fly to the bird, right? You could still get around pretty well with transportation. And you could also make a lot of money off flight. You could charge people a lot of money being like, Hey, you want to fly a fly up in the sky for a little while? Like flight would be a really good one to have.
John Shull 50:45
Yeah, I mean, that's great. That's I have that as one of my few honorable mentions. But my number one we kind of talked about earlier, I have superhuman strength. I mean, for multiple reasons. But you know, say a building crumbles down, say, a car's flipped over buses flipped over, let's call that guy Oh, come over and flip it over for Yo, come move the rocks, he'll knock down the building if he has to. I mean, superhuman strength can be used for so many positive things.
Nick VinZant 51:13
I think superhuman strength would be very handy if you were like a demolition company or a moving company. But I don't think that you would really want to exist in the world with superhuman strength, like you'd be ripping people's arms off all the time. Well,
John Shull 51:25
I guess you'd have to have a disclaimer, don't shake that guy's head is gonna rip your arm off.
Nick VinZant 51:30
But you couldn't even like open a door, you would have to have no doors in your house. So you would just be ripping your house apart all the time.
John Shull 51:40
Okay, I don't disagree with you. But then you don't have to you don't have doors, then you just build a house. Without doors.
Nick VinZant 51:47
I'm just telling you. I think that like high level, superhumans training could be a huge pain in the ass. You're
John Shull 51:52
one of those doggie doors, you know, with like the little plastic flaps, you can just walk through it, then?
Nick VinZant 51:57
Well, you just have to have no doors in your house, you'd have to have like automatic doors, because otherwise you'd just be tearing everything apart. Like you wouldn't you wouldn't be able to fix anything. Like imagine if you tried to put together a desk from IKEA. Like, he would just rip it all of the pieces. It'd be real. I think it'd be really inconvenient to have super strength.
John Shull 52:18
I mean, yeah, but no, I think it'd be fucking great. I would like obviously, you're gonna like going to the gym as like a like, just me. And then I just show up and I'm just like benching, every weight they have with one arm, you know, that got me crazy.
Nick VinZant 52:32
You're just like picking the whole thing up. My number one is teleportation. I think teleportation would be the most practical superpower. You can get around easily. You can go on vacations. You could make lots of money off of it be like this thing needs to be here right now. Like, I got it. I'll be there in a second. I mean, I think it's incredibly practical.
John Shull 52:52
Once again, I think it's I don't disagree with you that it's I mean number being number one, it's fine. I just feel like like out of all the superpowers you have everyone start friggin teleporting. It's going to be a gigantic disaster.
Nick VinZant 53:08
Duty. Not everybody can be a teleporter this is just your superpower.
John Shull 53:14
Yeah, I'm still comfortable where I had it. I'm good. I want to be. I want to be strong. You know what I mean? I want to be I think speed. I want to be Lou Ferrigno. Not, you know, Usain Bolt, though Usain Bolt's pretty badass
Nick VinZant 53:27
he had did I think that worked out better for Usain Bolt than it did for Lou Ferrigno. Super Speed would be pretty practical as well. What's in your honorable mention? Um,
John Shull 53:35
well, let's see, I put in shape shifting, but that's more like, shape shifting is kind of like,
Nick VinZant 53:43
what are you gonna do with that? Right? Unless you're like a criminal or a master criminal. But I mean, but then you wish you had one of these other powers? I think you could make just as much money legally, and not have to worry about it.
John Shull 53:53
I also I don't know if you're gonna say this is one. But it was on a list I was looking at of immortality.
Nick VinZant 54:02
Oh, I wouldn't want that at all. There's
John Shull 54:04
a small part of me like 5% That's like, man, it'd be cool. Never to die. Like to see the world. Just go go and go like, you know, but when? When would when would it be enough? Right? You're right, it probably would be terrible.
Nick VinZant 54:17
I wouldn't want you to turn your mortality at all. Healing would be cool, though.
John Shull 54:21
Healing would be dope. I also had flight on there. And then I don't think this is actually one but I'm gonna say it. But like being able to manipulate time, like stopping time and, you know, Oh,
Nick VinZant 54:34
that'd be really cool. Yeah, that'd be Yeah. I would say healing and like time manipulation should probably be on the list. For sure. I don't know what I would rip I would replace tell. I would replace intelligence with time manipulation. If you could stop time and stuff. That'd be awesome.
John Shull 54:52
That'd be just like right now. I wish we could live in this moment forever, Nick, just you and I.
Nick VinZant 54:57
Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this app. soda Profoundly Pointless I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it really helps us out and let us know what you think are some of the most practical superpowers not pie in the sky ones like all be awesome to have that. But things that would really make your life better. Time Travel should have been up there as I get older healing should have been up there. But I'm still gonna go with teleportation think that'd be awesome. Just blink and you're over here and you're over there. Oh, I'll be so handy.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Chain Whips, Fire Whips, Bull Whips, making up new lyrics to popular songs while whipping, Jack Lepiarz - aka Jacquez Ze Whipper - can do anything with a whip. We talk growing up in the circus, the rising popularity of Renaissance Faires and musical whipping. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Flavors of Doritos.
Jack the Whipper: 01:23
Pointless: 36:18
Top 5 Doritos Flavors: 53:53
Code: Pointless
Nick VinZant 0:00
Hi welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, the circus, renaissance fairs and Doritos, whether
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 0:22
it's target cutting with the whip, lighting a whip on fire, fancy whip cracking there's there's a whole other set. I think Renaissance Fair is it's a place where you can go and be yourself no matter how weird yourself is
Nick VinZant 0:51
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener. Welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. I want to get right to our first guest. This is circus and Renaissance Fair performer Jack lip ers, perhaps better known as Jack zipper. So how did you get into this? I
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 1:23
grew up in the circus I so my dad when I was a kid was working with Big Apple Circus. And we left the circus when I was six, and started doing renaissance fairs around the country. My dad eventually started his own show did school assembly programs, theater programs. So I had that taste of the life all through my childhood. And at the same time, my mother was a college professor, she's now retired in Florida. And so I still got a normal education on top of
Nick VinZant 1:52
it. Looking back was that kind of an interesting life is definitely
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 1:56
an interesting life. Being the circus kid is really cool when you're six, and it stops being cool around 12 Up until I would say like college. So like that whole stretch of like middle school high school. Not a fun time.
Nick VinZant 2:10
We all have those teenage experiences, like I don't want to be my parents. But then how do you how did you find yourself back in it?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 2:16
So that's, that's a really easy question. I was actually I was working for an ice cream shop, and I was making 625 an hour. My dad called me he was like, I need you. I need some help with this show. I will pay you I think it was the equivalent of $50 an hour. And I was like, oh, oh, okay. All right. You can you can make a living with this and much better than, you know, the minimum wage at the time. And so I was I think it was 16 then and I hadn't done anything with him for about five, six years. And suddenly I was like, oh, okay, well, let's let's start relearning some of these skills, learning skills that I never had in the first place. And then when I went off to college, it was like, All right, I can go back to scooping ice cream, or I can just, you know, go out on the streets of Boston and just st perform and see if I can make some money that way. And it turned out that just by St. performing in like September, October, and then again in April, May when it was warm enough, I could make enough to kind of like have spending money throughout the year.
Nick VinZant 3:13
I wouldn't say necessarily lucrative but that's the first word that jumps into my mind. Like you can do this full time and be good.
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 3:22
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So my dad has been a full time circus performer his entire, essentially his entire adult life. He worked when he was very, very young, kind of worked in the factory, drove cab just to kind of like pay the bills. But since I would say about 30 years old, he has been a full time circus or Renaissance, fair performer, no side, hustle, nothing, nothing like that. And he, he let's put it this way. He's put multiple children through college. With that. It is I think there's this image of circus people and Ren Faire people have, you know, they're there because they don't have anywhere else to go. But if you have the right skills, it can be a very good career. There
Nick VinZant 4:02
are a lot of people that have those right skills, like you can do this, but you got to be really good. I
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 4:08
think where you get the most is sort of in my line of work where you're the variety act, you're not, let's say a member of the cast at the renaissance fair. You're not working at a booth or something like that. So when you have a variety act, whether it's myself someone like pellagra bonds or the juggler you're an Arizona so like Adam, when rich at the Arizona renaissance fair, those are people who can make a solid living in and support themselves off of that.
Nick VinZant 4:33
Now when you do like kind of the variety show for people who aren't familiar I know that you're known mainly for the whipping. But what all kind of what's the show? What do you do all that kind of stuff?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 4:43
Well, so just a comeback track of variety show is sort of anything that's not let's say doing Shakespeare, so just variety circus tricks. So my big thing that I do that you see on tick tock Instagram, all that is the musical whipping. So I'll take two whips use them to make a beat. And then I will improvise lyrics as best I can on the fly with what the audience gives me. And that's what gets posted to social media because that's all improv I kind of relate it to it's like a stand up comedians crowd work, it's because it's different every show. I'm fine putting that up there. But then after that, I have, I would say about 45 minutes of completely, you know, scripted material, that is a mix of stand up and circus tricks. So whether it's target cutting with the whip, lighting, a whip on fire, fancy whip cracking, there's there's a whole other set of the show that does not get posted, because that's scripted material. And you have to come see the show in person to see that.
Nick VinZant 5:42
But why did you gravitate towards the whip?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 5:44
So when I was a kid, my dad did whip cracking, and Indiana Jones. So I think those two things I basically, when I was a kid, it seemed cool. And I had easy access to it. So you know, the whip that I first learned on was one of my dad's old Whips that was made by the guy who made the whips for the original Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones. So that was the whip that thing is worth like $2,000 today. And that was the whip he handed to a seven year old to learn how to use which is not a good idea. I do not advise teaching seven year olds to crack whips. Yeah, that's
Nick VinZant 6:20
kind of a more dangerous thing, right? Like I don't know if you can do that today, like here three years ago,
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 6:26
not as dangerous as people think it's it's dangerous. But it's if you're taking the right precautions, which is wear long, long pants, sleeves, wear eye protection, that's the big thing. It's not too bad. I also say if you've got someone young, give them your protection too, just because those things are loud. And I do have mild to moderate hearing loss. And, you know, you can avoid that. If you just give your child some some earplugs while they're cracking, cracking their first whip baby's first whip,
Nick VinZant 6:54
you get there that loud, or you just done it so much that like
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 6:58
it's a combination of it. So most of the time, I actually try to not be too loud with the whips because it's, it's louder for someone on the on the other end who's watching me because the whip it when it cracks is, you know, 678 feet away from me. And if I'm on a small stage, that means it's like two feet away from the audience. So it's right in their face when it cracks. But there are a few cracks a few Whips that I have, where it's just right next to my right ear, and it is loud. So it's if I've taken hearing tests, the hearing in my right ear is so much worse than my left ear because I'm right handed, most of the cracking is on my right side.
Nick VinZant 7:35
How do you crack it? I've never been like I had a whip when I was a little kid. But I couldn't do anything with it. Like how do you do it.
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 7:41
So the first thing you do is don't try to do what everyone tries to do, which is they take the whip at like on the ground, they just kind of flick it up and down real quick. That's a really good way to hit yourself in the eye hit yourself on the arm. The trick is usually it's kind of like and I've never fly fished. But I've been told that it's the exact same motion, it is the way that you would fly fish, which is you bring it back behind you let it get fully extended, and then bring it forward. It's kind of like kind of like casting a fishing line. Not perfectly the same. But it's it's it's a process. And then over time, you just kind of develop the muscle memory I learned so long ago. I have actually I have trouble teaching people now because I'm like, just just do this. It's that simple. Just do this. And they're like, I don't know what I do.
Nick VinZant 8:26
I have two children like explained to them how to run I don't know, you just you just just do it, do it. And as a person who fly fishers like that's exactly how you fly fish, right? You let it go all the way back and then you just kind of snap your wrist a little bit do exactly. Um, what do you think makes you good at it?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 8:46
I think so what what I had the fortunate, I had the good fortune of a couple of things. One, I grew up in the world, so of circus. So I've been I've kind of learned a lot just through osmosis. When I first started really, really practicing whips. I found that I knew how to do a lot of the tricks just by watching having watched my dad do it so many times. But then the other thing was, I've been doing this show 15 1617 years now. So I'm in my mid 30s. I started performing solo when I was 18 in college. And so I had essentially 1314 years where no one knew who I was I was I was getting work but not a ton of work. And so I had all that time to polish my show. Figure out how to do this figure out okay, what makes people laugh, what doesn't make people laugh, and go from there. So I had a lot of time to fail off camera. And then you know, this social media blow up didn't happen for me until October of 2021. By then, I think I was in my 13th 14th season. So I had a lot of time to kind of figure it out.
Nick VinZant 9:55
What was that like doing something for so long and then all of a sudden I Boom. It was it was weird.
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 10:02
I mean, so the initial videos that went viral actually, were not my videos, they were videos of me that a fan took and put on Tik Tok. And suddenly, these videos are gone. My wife texted me while I was at work at my real job, and I was working at a radio station. And she goes, my friend just sent me this asking if this is you. And so, I was like, alright, well, I guess there's a demand for this after I think the second video went viral. So I was like, well, let's, let's make a tic tock account. We've got some old show footage, let's just put it on the internet and see what happens. And edit. It was very quick. Within 10 days, it was like, oh, okay, all right. There's there's a demand for this. And then as it continued to roll, it was sort of like, okay, well, let's see if we can make this a career. And it's, I think, in a lot of ways, going back to being able to fail off camera, you know, the having the time that I did, working, both, you know, at renaissance fairs, and then also my work at working in radio, I got a chance like sort of a taste of what it's like to be in the public eye without being a celebrity. And that kind of, I feel like I came into it. Not surprised. Not not surprised, but I sort of knew is like, Okay, this is what we do. This is how we manage expectations. This is how we manage, you know, making sure that I take time for myself, make sure I have things that are outside the public eye. Doing that was was huge. And having that opportunity before this all happened was huge.
Nick VinZant 11:36
knew how to handle it. Like there was the groundwork was laid essential. Yeah,
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 11:40
yeah. And I've said, you know, had this happen when I was 22, I would not have been able to deal with I would not have been ready to deal with it, I would have turned insufferable. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 11:50
I think you see that happen to a lot of people on social media, too. What was that like kind of being in the public eye doing the radio stuff? And then like, hey, what do you do on the side like, Well, I
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 12:00
do I. So I tried to not always publicly say it, and be super forthcoming about it. It was not information that I would regularly volunteer. But certainly plenty of people that I interacted with knew I remember it was very funny. I was doing a show one time I saw Boston City Councilor who I had covered in my crowd one day, he was a terrible audience member, he was talking to his wife or his girlfriend the whole time. But no, I think I think early on, there was this sense of, I think, people were kind of confused, they would give you this quizzical look, they're like, wait, what? What do you do on the side? But I think after a few years, everyone kind of knew, and if they didn't know, they were just kind of like, alright, it's, it's always I, you either get this reaction of people are just shocked. Or more more frequently, it's kind of just that people are like, Oh, okay, that's cool. That's interesting. And then they move on.
Nick VinZant 12:59
When did you start kind of in including the singing in it? Oh, oh.
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 13:13
Oh that came out of out of just an improvised bit. I was working with another whip cracker. And I was just standing there, we both had one whip. And so I'm standing there and I was going. And then he happened to crack just in time that we made the beat for We Will Rock huge boom. And I'm like, Well, wait, keep that going. Keep that going. And suddenly, we start singing, we will rock you. And I was like, wait a minute, you can probably do this with a bunch of stuff. So I tried to start trying out different beats. And I had taken a ton of improv classes when I was younger, when I thought, you know, maybe I want to be an actor or something like that. And making up lyrics to songs had always been something I was, I don't know about good at but at least you know, that age proficient at and I had done high school musicals, high school theater. So my singing voice is not you know, no one's gonna confuse me for a professional singer. But I can carry a tune decently. And so from there, it sort of became this idea of like, okay, well, let's, let's try putting this in the show as what we call the pre show, which is the pre show is not your good material. The pre show is something that's good enough, that's loud to get people to come to the show, because renaissance fairs, you know, you have show times but you don't have a set crowd. So you the first five minutes, you're essentially trying to get more people to come and see your show. And so what I realized is musical whipping being loud singing songs. This is a great way to get people to stop by and watch the show. And so I made that kind of the permanent fixture of the first five minutes of my show, and that was probably starting around 2012 I would say was when that happened.
Nick VinZant 14:55
Are you surprised that it was like, Wait, this this is the thing
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 15:01
No, because I mean, I mean, you look at the popularity of people like Weird Al. And you know, there's a demand for it. It's not everyone's thing. Like, I see my comments every now and then where people are like, really people find this entertaining. And I'm like, Listen, I don't know, I don't get it. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 15:15
right. Like, what are you? What? Are you mad at me for?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 15:17
Whatever works, man?
Nick VinZant 15:20
How does that work? Then you get paid by the Renaissance Fair, are people have to pay to come into the show? Or is it?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 15:26
It's a combination. So the most fairs are a combination of they will pay you. And then you also get tips from the audience. And the tips are where you make most of your money. Usually,
Nick VinZant 15:36
now what are you always you can pronounce it better than I am? Zipper?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 15:40
Jaaxy whip, right? Yeah. So early on was my father and I essentially helped create, create this this act when I first moved to renaissance fairs when I was 20, I think. And they're kind of three pillars of what makes a good renaissance fair show. And you ideally should have a mix of all three. But you can get by with two of the three if those two are really high. And that's comedy, skill and character. And when I started my skills were Yeah, so we had to lean more on the comedy, and especially on the character and renaissance fairs. Most people are English, Irish, Scottish, you get the straight German, every now and then. Very few French people. And so I was like, alright, well, let's, let's be French. I took I took five years, six years of French classes, I can, I can kind of fake it a little bit. And it kind of worked. And then I remember the last day of my first weekend doing the character, I drew on the mustache, and that seemed to make it click for everyone, which is that, oh, this is dumb. This is this is a skill show. This is dangerous show. But this is still dumb. This is comedy, and we're here to have have a good laugh. And nowadays, I'm so glad I made that decision, because it allows people to understand that they should not be intimidated by by a man holding a whip. And that this is this is for laughs This is to have a good time. What
Nick VinZant 17:06
is it about renaissance fairs because it's something that I haven't personally been to, but it's been my experience that people who are into it, they are into it. I
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 17:14
think Renaissance Faire is it's a place where you can go and be yourself, no matter how weird yourself is. So for a long time, it was a safe space for to put it bluntly, the freaks and geeks of our world and I, you know, I put myself in that category. But I think over the last, I would say 10 years between Game of Thrones, which are the Lord of the Rings, being a nerd has become more acceptable, and of course, Marvel as well. And so we've had this influx, I think of young professionals, you know, people in their mid to late 20s, they're finally making good money, they don't yet have kids, they have a lot of disposable income. And they have been coming to the Renaissance Fair in droves. I noticed it around 2014 2015, where I was like, hang on, everyone who's here at this show. Looks like me, it looks like they're at the exact same stage of life, as I know, except for like that family there and that old guy there. So I think there's been a big jump in that clientele so that renaissance fairs have grown. And then on top of that, in the years after COVID, it was an outdoor safe space, it was an outdoor space, you could go and have fun, and not necessarily need to worry about being indoors with 500 other people to go see some kind of entertainment.
Nick VinZant 18:35
So maybe I'm missing out. Do you think that continues though? Is it a flash in the pan? Or like No, no, I think we set a benchmark.
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 18:42
They've been around for 50 years. Going back to the early one. I think it started in the 60s, in California. And you know, a lot of the festivals I work are in there. You know, they're 30 plus years old. They're 40 plus years old. So I don't know that they're going anywhere in the immediate future. I don't think you're gonna see yours like you did in 2021 was just an extraordinary year all around. But I think yeah, I think I think they're here for I think they're here for a good long while.
Nick VinZant 19:14
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Go for it. Hardest type of whip to crack
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 19:20
stock whips. So there are essentially three kinds of whips. You have a leather bowl whip, which is like an Indiana Jones whip. You have performance hybrid whips, which are a combination of a bullwhip and a stock whip. And those are what you see me cracking and most of my videos I use, I call them my musical whips. And then stock whips. They come from Australia, used for driving stock driving cattle, and they had this weird hinge on them where you go from the stiff handle into the braid of the whip. It's got this hinge on it and I cannot figure out how to work those and it's probably just because I didn't grow up, cracking those I grew up cracking my dad's bull whips So I actually have a pair on their way to me now that I'm gonna try and figure out and see if I can get better with them. But that's that's easily it. And that and the chain whip just because the chain whip is, you know you're cracking a chain, it's heavy, it's floppy is a really good chance you hit yourself and hurt yourself. But that's, that's I put that in a whole separate category.
Nick VinZant 20:22
That leads us into this question, right? Like, what's the worst injury that you've had? Like? How often do you get hurt? Not
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 20:28
very often. I think people think whips are a lot more dangerous than they are. Whips will leave a welt at the most they'll leave, you know, kind of a shallow cut. And that's if you really, really mess up. The worst I ever did was in college, I was 20, or it was 20 or 2221. And I went to go do a side crack. And as the whip came forward, it caught the back of my neck and I thought it was just a welt. And then I learned that the next day in class that I had not left a wealth I had left a long cut across the back of my neck. Someone in class leans over and like, Jack, what did you do to your neck, and I just look at them. I gave the whip crack motion. They're like, Oh, okay, all right. We're not interested anymore.
Nick VinZant 21:15
Crack myself with a whip. I go, yeah. Okay, you
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 21:18
know, we've all been there. All right,
Nick VinZant 21:20
um, what's your favorite song to perform?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 21:25
So I, what I always like are songs that are a little bit slower, or that have different rhyming schemes. So if it's just, you know, rhyme a BB, that's harder, because your, your brain has to move faster. What I really like are songs that are slower, and it's an A B, a type of rhyme. So you have two lines before you have to come back and do the rhyme. So a good example of this is sound of silence. Sound of Silence is nice and slow. Everyone knows it, and you have tons of time to think up what the rhyme is going to be. So I had done some sound of silence a bajillion times. It is never the same rhymes because every single time I'm adapting it to the situation because I have enough time to do it. Something like Eminem is Rap God where he's making a rhyme every half second, not my favorite to do. Those are a lot of those are a lot harder to do.
Nick VinZant 22:22
How do you feel about Indiana Jones?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 22:24
I'm a fan of Indiana Jones. I was not a fan of Indiana Jones for I thought Indiana Jones five was fine. I am very much very much looking forward to the video game that's coming out at some point this year. Who
Nick VinZant 22:35
is your favorite fictional character with a whip? Besides if it is Indiana Jones?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 22:41
I think right now it's Richter Belmont. Trevor from the Castlevania series, the Netflix series. I so I watched both both Castlevania series they have I really liked Trevor Belmont in the original of just being just a dumb himbo who's really good at fighting vampires, which I enjoyed a lot. I thought they gave Richter a little bit more depth. And I liked his costume a lot more. So I think right now it's, I'm leaning towards Richter at the moment,
Nick VinZant 23:08
can you really swing from a tree or from anything on a whip,
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 23:12
you can swing from a tree on a whip, it is not advisable. And it is not something that you should rely on. So it's easy to tie the whip around the tree it is much harder to get the whip untied around the tree. You know, I don't know that my whip would actually survive doing that more than two or three times.
Nick VinZant 23:32
Is there an aspect of kind of like circus performance necessarily the that do whip seem to do better than not something else to say that if you're juggling or throwing knives or anything like that? Is there kind of a hierarchy like you want to make it you get the
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 23:47
whip? Well, so I think my dad actually told me about this and talked to me about this when I was very, very young. When I was sick. I was like oh, I should learn how to juggle. And my dad said here's the thing. Everyone can juggle everyone in the circus can juggle everyone who goes to the circus has seen a person juggle before. And so if you want to be a standout juggler, you really need to be extraordinary at it or you need to be so funny that you essentially don't need the juggling anyway. And even then, even if you do all of that, there, you know there are 10 Other jugglers who are almost as good or just as good as you who could also do that, that act whereas, you know, I look at the Renaissance Fair circuit there are three people who do a primarily whip based show myself Adam when rich Aaron Bach. So starting just from there, the level of competition is much lower. And that was you know, when he mentioned that to me, I was like oh, okay, you're, you're telling me that I can get more work for less less amount of practice. Yes, this sounds like a great idea. So I gravitated towards whip cracking for that reason. I also tried dice throwing I have a knife throwing show that I don't do very often. I have some other kind of miscellaneous circus skills, plates spinning, balancing, both, you know whether it's on a tight surface or something, let's say on my chin, lots of other skills that I can kind of pull out, but they're not really you know, the reaction that you get from spinning a plate is much less than what you get from cracking the whip.
Nick VinZant 25:18
I have never understood the knife throwing aspect. Is it the knife? Is it the technique? Do you have to get the distance down? Like how do you get it
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 25:26
all of the above. So what you want is you want knives that are weighted in such a way that they'll fly truer, heavier knives are better because there's less variation on how much they rotate, you want to spin the knife as little as possible. And then for me, so I know that 10 nine and three quarters steps away from the knife board is where I want to be. When I'm when I'm throwing knives, the way that I throw them, the knife will rotate. And it'll stick the same way every single time. As long as I can find that distance.
Nick VinZant 25:55
But if somebody gave you like a random distance, okay, I want you to do 13 and a half steps. Could you hit it or like No, it has to be this distance. I
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 26:05
couldn't consistently do it. I was amazed. I was sharing a stage with a guy named side the sword swallower in Colorado, and he doesn't like throwing show and I was watching him and I was like, sigh I'm looking at the stage because normally you tape where your mark is where you need to stand you tape where the board needs to be and where you need to be. And I'm looking at like, sigh Where are your marks? How are you? How are you figuring this out? And he goes, Oh, and he walks up to the board starts throwing knives and stepping back, you know about a foot each time and every single one of those knives stuck. And I was like what? How do you how do you do that? It goes I don't know I practice a lot of cheeses man.
Nick VinZant 26:42
That doesn't seem to really go along with like the laws of physics. I don't know if it's physics, but I would think like no, you it's not going to rotate again that fast.
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 26:49
He just he's he's that good where he can he can just eyeball the distance and change how much the knife is rotating. Okay,
Nick VinZant 26:57
so we're looking at a video. Most bullwhip, let me make sure the audio is off. Yeah,
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 27:02
this is when I think I did 287 cracks. So this is actually not the current record, because I broke this record in 2020. But this is me swinging the whip back and forth. 287 tight, well, 290 times, but I missed a few cracks in it. And this was this was a record that I spent most recently I spent about two years training, six hours a day working or six days a week working out three days on one day off three days on one day off, spent two years doing that put on 15 pounds of muscle to do this record, and then promptly had shoulder surgery for unrelated reasons and lost all that muscle. I went from looking like Captain America to looking like my normal self, which was
Nick VinZant 27:41
sad. You need that much muscle to do that.
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 27:46
At the point that we had put it, you did, because I had been going back and forth with Adam when rich for a few few years. And I wanted to just finally put it way out of reach. So I in COVID, I decided you know what? Screw it. I don't have anything else going on. I'm just going to work out as much as I can put on as much muscle as I can. And see, you know how high I can put this mark? I
Nick VinZant 28:09
think that's the thing with like whips, though. It's one of those things where like, you look at it like I could do that. It's Is it a lot harder than people think that it is?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 28:21
I mean, cracking a whip in an in and of itself is not difficult. The record is difficult because I was one of those guys where I looked at the record. I'm like, I can do that. And then I tried it. I was like, oh, oh, that's a lot harder than I realized. And so, you know, I think I think getting to where I am as a whip cracker. Someone could probably do in six months to a year if they were dedicated. And I've been cracking whips for like I said, you know, 20, almost 30 years. But then getting the record it has to be basically your sole focus at this point for for a year plus, at where Adam and I have
Nick VinZant 28:58
have said it. Here's knife throwing.
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 29:01
It's not actual knife throwing this is this I just posted this morning. Oh, okay, me showing off all those other tricks that I that I learned and that I don't actually do in the show anymore, because no one cares about them.
Nick VinZant 29:12
Is that there is magic play
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 29:16
that there's a little bit of magic. It's not good magic.
Nick VinZant 29:18
Why is plates spinning in the Renaissance? Fair? Is that an old timey thing?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 29:23
No, it's just a circus thing. So my dad's show was called the super scientific circuit still is called the super scientific circus where you teach science through circus tricks. And so one of those was plates spinning because it teaches about centripetal and centrifugal force. And I had a lot of days backstage where just just sat there spinning plates because it was the only thing to do. Oh, there you go. Indiana jonesing with my dad iego. So this is where we tried all the things that Indiana Jones does in the movies with one of my dad's old whips made by the guy who made the whips for Indiana Jones who's dead now And so you know that whip is worth more than I am all of those whips are worth more than I am. But he had these whips and and the new Indiana Jones movie was coming out this past summer last summer. And I was like well let's let's try and do some Indiana Jones tricks with with the whips like there's a flash that he does in the Raiders movie. That's actually harder than that it looks disarming an armed attacker. So I had them hold out a bat pulled the bat out, it worked far better than I expected it to. And then trying to swing from a tree branch. So for this, we did not use one of those whips because I didn't want to break it. But we use an eight foot whip caught around it perfectly. And I don't I don't have it here. But it took me about three minutes to untie it from the tree. I haven't I have it in the bloopers reel that i think i i posted later. Because it's really hard to actually untie a whip once you've taught you know, you spent so much of your life trying to not get your whips tangled or like tie them into knots because they they will do that sometimes. And then trying to do it intentionally is really hard. This
Nick VinZant 31:06
cool. So there's different ways to crack it. Yeah.
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 31:09
So front crack back crack over the head crack side crack, these are not the official terms. And then I say we will not be demonstrating the bud crack. Obviously not that kind of show. You can see that show somewhere else, but not with me. But there are all sorts of different techniques that you can use for whip cracking. I think the one that's most common, you know, that front crack is called the circus crack or the Kettlemans crack because it was how cattlemen would would crack whips. There's another one called the coachman's crack where you don't want it to crack out front because then you're gonna be whipping, you know, the oxen or the horses that are pulling your carriage. And so what you do as you kind of put ad this stutter into your hand, so that a cracks right next to your right ear and makes you lose hearing for a few seconds. I don't like that crack.
Nick VinZant 31:57
This is what I always wonder about people who do circus performance and any kind of thing where they have to like how many copies of that outfit do you have? Are you just wearing the same one? I
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 32:07
have three different set. I have three vests. I have four shirts. I have three of those sashes. The pants right now I have four but I'm having four brand new pair or No, I have three because I sent one of them off to a woman who's making me four more pair of pants and the socks. I have probably like seven or eight pair of socks. And then the shoes. I have five or six pair of those.
Nick VinZant 32:34
He had no way does anybody just wear the same one every day like, Oh, yeah.
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 32:38
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it gets gross. So for a while I only had two, which was usually fine, because I'm performing, you know, on weekends. But then you would have that stray that rogue three day weekend, let's say around like Memorial Day weekend or Labor Day weekend. And that Labor Day Monday. Oh boy, what I smell bad. Because it's also you know, it's late August, early September. It's still warm. It's you know, even if you're in the Northeast in Boston, which is where I usually was it's still it's hot and it's humid, and it's muggy. I mean, like not like what you get in Arizona, but humid humidity helps or doesn't help, I should say. So
Nick VinZant 33:14
how hard was this to do?
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 33:17
So these whips are so freakin heavy. And I have I have my shoulders are Swiss cheese, as I always like to say they've got lots of lots of damage with them. So I start with a five pound chain whip, which is heavy, but it's crackable I can do most of what I want. But this this other one is a 10 pound chain whip. And the whole time I'm swinging this being like, Oh God, just don't dislocate your shoulder trying to crack this thing because you can feel it pulling on you the weight is there. I mean, you say it's only 10 pounds, but it's also eight feet long and just you know the central riff. The goal for us I always have to remember is that centripetal or centrifugal? The centrifugal force is just pulling on your arm so much that I have to just like tuck everything in there to make sure nothing comes out.
Nick VinZant 34:04
That's pretty much all the questions that I got. Is there anything that you think that we missed? And what's kind of coming up next for you? Where can people find you the
Jack Lepiarz (Jack the Whipper) 34:11
best way to find me is I'm so I'm going on tour in just just a few days. Busy 2024 ahead. The full schedule, the easiest way to find it is Jack the ripper.com or chakra Z wipro.com or Jack lip ers.com No one knows how to spell any of my names. So I got all three domain names, and they will all take you to my website which has my full schedule. Otherwise, give me a follow tick tock Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, I'm on all the platforms and just about all the platforms get all the same content. I
Nick VinZant 34:41
want to thank Jack so much for joining us if you want to connect with him. We have linked to him on our social media accounts were Profoundly Pointless on Tik Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included his information in the episode description. If you want to see him perform some of the things that we talked about. The YouTube version of this interview will be live on February 29, at 12:30pm Pacific. So real quick, I want to take a moment and thank one of the sponsors of our show, Joy mode. Joy mode is a sexual performance booster. So whether you're looking to spice up your more intimate moments, or increase your confidence in the bedroom, Joy mode can help with an all natural science backed approach. And right now, they're offering their trademark product, the sexual performance booster, which is every man solution to increase blood flow, firmness, stamina, and performance. And right now they're offering a special discount to our listeners, you can redefine your intimacy by going to use joy mode.com for 20% Off with code pointless. That's 20% off, plus free shipping with code pointless. I'm usually really skeptical about stuff like this, like, okay, all right. But I tried it this weekend. And I don't know if the wife was happy, but I was impressed. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw, and get to the pointless part of this show. Okay, would you rather work for $500,000 a year? Or get $75,000? A year for free?
John Shull 36:31
How involved is the job that I'll be making? 500? Is it a nine to five? Or am I on the on my on call all the time? Is it a very involved job? Normal
Nick VinZant 36:42
ish job like nothing crazy. There's no big catch to it, I would take the 75 Grand I would take the 75 Grand to I think that is because I think it's because as you get older, your time becomes more valuable. And you just rather have the time. You
John Shull 37:00
don't realize that as you're a young person working.
Nick VinZant 37:03
I wondered how close this is going to be I asked the audience. So what do you think that percentage is? What percentage of people do you think put work for 500,000? What percentage do you think said, take the 75,000 for free?
John Shull 37:16
Well, I want I want to think that it would be pretty lopsided with people saying the $500,000 job. But I'm gonna say it's probably pretty even.
Nick VinZant 37:26
It is actually pretty even 56% said work for 500,044% said take the 75. I think that that has changed though. I think that in the last couple of years, people have really started to question the value of not the value. But the idea of working all of your life and like you know what I I'm pretty, okay. I don't really need to do all this.
John Shull 37:51
Sometimes managing people is not worth the hassle at all. Sometimes just staying where you're at and just making that steady salary not having other responsibilities. kind of awesome. And secondly, I just I just think that the generation after us is going to prove so many things in terms of working, like working 40 hour work weeks, things that generations before us and us would have been like, wow, why didn't we stand up for that? Like, you know, we could have done it. I
Nick VinZant 38:22
think one of the big things that's going to change in our society is that we are a society, at least in the United States that is based around the idea of growth, we got more people, more growth, more everything. And now we're looking for the first time in a society that is not growing. And that's going to lead to fundamental changes in how we view everything. Okay, but okay, no pipe dream jobs. Not like I want to be an NFL quarterback, or you want to be a professional wrestler, which is I know what your real dream. But if you could start your life over what job would you do? Like if you could make the same amount of money? Do all the same things like what job? Would you really want to do?
John Shull 39:02
Oh, man, that's a tough question. Um, I mean, I'd love to be a coach, whether it be a high school coach, or, you know, a college coach or something like that a teacher. I'd also love to give acting a try not like real acting, but bullshit acting something like that. I don't know. I mean, I can tell you this. And I say this with love. And I'm not afraid to admit this. But I could go back and do it over again, I would not have and I would not have chosen this career path. I would I would do something different. And I don't want that for people to think that I don't like what I'm doing now. But, you know, I definitely would try something different.
Nick VinZant 39:42
I don't know if I would change what I did. But if I had my dream, like the thing that I would really want to do would be a carpenter. Like I would love to just be outside building stuff. Like working with your hands. I would love to be a carpenter, but also some of that as well. Probably because I have no no DIY, do it yourself talent whatsoever. Like you give me an Ikea desk gonna be at least two weeks chasis.
John Shull 40:09
Man. I mean, I that's actually a good question is on a scale from one to 10? With five being your self sufficient at most house things like changing the light bulb, you know, mounting a TV, where are you on that scale?
Nick VinZant 40:28
If it's just kind of replacing stuff or simple fixes, I'm actually not that bad. Like, if I've got a plumbing issue, I can usually fix that. If it's something where like, I can clearly see how to take this thing apart and put it back together, then I can do it. My problem is tools and patience. And I've definitely kind of going back to our poll question in the sense that like, look, I can spend six hours figuring out how to do this, or I can call someone and pay them to do it in an hour.
John Shull 41:02
Well, someone near and dear to me has his motto, it's either time or money. So which one? You know, what do you want to spend? Do you want to spend the money? Or do you want to spend the time doing it? Which I think is a question that you only think of as you get older?
Nick VinZant 41:17
Yeah, young me would say spend the time old me would say spend the money.
John Shull 41:23
Yeah, I would definitely spend the money. I mean, I'm surprised you haven't brought this up yet that I am the guy that used to pay for a lawn service.
Nick VinZant 41:31
It's ridiculous. You're not supposed to pay for it, but mow your own yard? I do. And I love in mind as well. let another man come in and have sex with your wife. If you have lawn service, you are essentially allowing another man to have sex with your wife, metaphorically speaking. No, we're letting another man mow your yard? Well, it's
John Shull 41:49
an all you men out there. And women who hire people to do your lawns Don't listen to him. He's not.
Nick VinZant 41:56
I'm sorry. I have nothing against long service professionals. I have nothing against that industry. I think that trade work generally is one of the most undervalued assets of our society. No, I think that trade work in terms of like plumbers, electricians, those kinds of jobs, like wait till that stuff breaks. And that stuff's incredibly important, but I don't think that a man should allow another man to mow his yard should be done by yourself. Unless it needs to be five acres or more.
John Shull 42:27
acres more lawn, half acre, half acre would be more than enough.
Nick VinZant 42:32
I really don't have any concept of how big an acre is to be honest with you.
Unknown Speaker 42:36
I think it's
Nick VinZant 42:40
one of those things like I have no concept of how big that is, like an acre. I go, okay.
John Shull 42:46
Let's just put it this way. If you put your house in my house and our combined yardage together, we still wouldn't have an acre I don't think so.
Nick VinZant 42:54
Probably not. That's probably pretty big. Okay, one acre, then. If you can walk across your yard in less than five minutes, you need to mow it. Well, that's all that is my that is my official. That is my official statement.
John Shull 43:11
All right, we'll start here Richard Murray Grady nettles, I liked the name Grady. I don't know why but I like it. It's good. It's good one. Benjamin shields. Jim Dowd, Alex Moodley Ethan Wilkie. Gabe de Sam, Robert Shaw. Or maybe it's Robert Shaw. Oh, probably Omar Khan. Tyler tid. Well, it was so Matoba Tia, love that.
Nick VinZant 43:41
I think you actually pronounced that right to I hope
John Shull 43:43
I did. Because if not, I butchered it. Joey version. And Colton Gaines. Congratulations. You all get this? I don't know the Goldstar maybe we'll send you a t shirt in six years. I have no idea. Someday. All right. You ready for some? Yah,
Nick VinZant 44:01
yah, yah, yah, yah,
John Shull 44:02
some rapid fire questions here. That's gonna take us 20 minutes again.
Nick VinZant 44:06
Bring it in effer
John Shull 44:10
All right, first one. I hope you've seen these incidents or it's gonna make no sense, but we'll try it anyway. storming the court during basketball games.
Nick VinZant 44:22
necessary evil. I think that that's a necessary evil. I know some guy got hurt and it's like ruined his season or something like that. But those sports only exist because of the fans like to me, should that guy have gotten hurt? Absolutely not. But I think that that's a necessary evil along with sports, that you only exist because the fans are willing to pay for this and you got to let the fans do what they want a little bit. Like you got to acknowledge that look. I know that you want to win. I know that you think this is all about your championship but no, it's about making money and you don't make money without the fan so get over it.
John Shull 44:56
Some would argue if you haven't seen it, I suggest Check it out. It'll be a few days old by the time this comes out, but Duke Wake Forest, Wake Forest upsets Duke. As Nick said, the Duke player is kind of running off the court. It almost looks like to me that he extends his arms to push somebody, and then trip somebody, and then he gets run into. But regardless, I agree with you, it is a necessary evil.
Nick VinZant 45:21
I think like if you look at it from a business standpoint, right, there's the cost of doing business. And there's always some things that are the cost of doing business. And I think that's the cost of doing business.
John Shull 45:32
I mean, yes, I here, here's my 22nd thing on it. I don't know if I'm okay. In any sporting event where you have will say hundreds, if not almost 1000 At times, people just randomly running onto the court. When you have athletes and coaches and team personnel on the court. I mean, I just feel like you're asking for for a disaster.
Nick VinZant 45:56
That's why when I hear all these people on TV complaining about this is like what you want to get 1000s of people get him super hyped up about their team, give them a bunch of alcohol and then be surprised when this happens. Like you call the devil don't be surprised when he shows up.
John Shull 46:13
Yeah, Praise Jesus. Father's Father, Son and the Holy Ghost coming.
Nick VinZant 46:18
I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it from people about like I'm again these things mean digging, digging. I can't believe they did this. Well. I can't believe they did that thing that we wanted them to do.
John Shull 46:29
Alright, completely flipping the script here. Cheez Its,
Nick VinZant 46:36
oh, I'll go through phases. I go through phases with cheeses. Once a year. I'm going to go through a cheese it phase where I'm going to try just about every flavor they have. Overall, I would say that I like them, but I'm going to choose chips over Cheez Its every time.
John Shull 46:49
Okay, follow up question. What kind of cheeses Is there only one kind? Are you going with like Parmesan? You go with grooves? Are you just going with the originals?
Nick VinZant 46:59
I've had grooves and I thought that they were pretty good. But for the most part, I just want the cheesiest flavor of anything.
John Shull 47:06
Okay. All right. Moving on. Here's another food related item. boba tea.
Nick VinZant 47:13
I started to really like it.
John Shull 47:15
Actually, okay,
Nick VinZant 47:16
I don't really like it. But I really like to take my two sons to go get it because they like boba tea, and it's not really that expensive. And it's like, Hey, you got boba tea. It's like three bucks, and I can't really go and then they're happy for the rest of the day. I
John Shull 47:28
have ever. I've never had it, but I think I'm going to try it in the next couple of weeks off to report back to you
Nick VinZant 47:34
on it. I am generally against any kind of drink that has calories in it. I just find it to be a complete waste of time. Whether that be boba tea, juice, any kind of drink that has calories like if I'm going to have any kind of calories. I want to fill my stomach up in a way like I don't want to just drink them. I need to feel like I had them.
John Shull 47:59
Let's see here. Oh god, I'm old. Yeah, that was very, but I wasn't Yeah, anything. You definitely sound like an old man. Right?
Nick VinZant 48:07
It's turned into like an okay, yeah. Yeah, you don't want to talk about your stupid lawn.
John Shull 48:17
You brought it up.
Nick VinZant 48:20
You actually brought it up, I
John Shull 48:21
believe. Maybe. How important is a good pillow to you? Is it the most important piece of bedding?
Nick VinZant 48:30
I can honestly sleep on just about any pillow as long as it's not too big. I just get used to whatever I'm doing my wife goes through pillows ever. Like I'm swear we get a new one every damn week. Yeah, but I Okay. Like pillow is not that big of a deal to me, man. I'll sleep on a rock to be honest with you,
John Shull 48:47
though. You wouldn't. That sounds terrible.
Nick VinZant 48:49
pretty uncomfortable, honestly. But I can sleep. All I really need. Look man, I've passed out on the floor many a time. All I need really is my own arms to lay on.
John Shull 49:00
Okay, let's see here. Killian Murphy. He seems to be the hot actor. As he started Oppenheimer. He was also in a show called Peaky Blinders. He
Nick VinZant 49:12
is uh, one of the more distinct looking people. That's a distinct looking person.
John Shull 49:18
Yeah, right. Yeah, without a doubt.
Nick VinZant 49:21
Um, I don't know. I actually I'd like him in the sense that he seems to be one of those actors that like, look, this is just my job. And this is what I do. And I don't really want to deal with any of the other parts of it. Like just show up, do the job and go home.
John Shull 49:35
There is a there is a pretty famous clip of him at I don't know con or one of those movie festivals where you can just tell he is so annoyed for having to stop and every 30 seconds you know, right cheek, left cheek, smile. He just wants to get in and start drinking shots.
Nick VinZant 49:52
I think. Well, man, that's the way to do it. It's
John Shull 49:55
just a job. Just a job. Just A job speaking of a job. I don't know why I wrote this one down but a door greeters. How are you? How are you feeling about door greeters?
Nick VinZant 50:10
I like to be welcomed into a place. I like to be welcomed into a business you should this is I'm gonna go on a rant here now, this is my big problem with America at this point right now not America actually this is my big problem I think in society today is that businesses have gone from trying to earn our business by providing us with a good service or a product they've gone from trying to earn our business to figuring out ways to take it and it's ruin things for us.
John Shull 50:42
I mean, I agree with you I want to start a want me but at the same point I'm also the person that just wants to go in and get out I don't want to be confronted I don't want to be talked to I stopped going to stores like BestBuy and places like that because of all the in store advertisement people they would have you couldn't it felt like you couldn't walk down an aisle without having someone say Why Hello Sir, do you have a TN T or you know, something like that? You
Nick VinZant 51:14
must have a much more approachable demeanor than I have. Because nobody ever approaches me in places.
John Shull 51:20
I can approach everywhere I go. i Every everything I get approached for it's ridiculous. No
Nick VinZant 51:27
one like if there's, if there's one of those people that's like out on the street trying to get you for a signature or whatever, then they never I never get approached by those people.
John Shull 51:38
Yeah, I'm, I do get kind of a stink face though. Like like if, for instance, if someone's coming up to me and like, say us a grocery store with a petition, and they want me to sign it. I'll just be like, No, not today. And then they'll go away. But yeah, I get approached all the time,
Nick VinZant 51:53
man. I don't know if I'm jealous of you, or envious of you or what the word is or proud not to be you like I kind of want to be approached like I want somebody to ask me every once in a while. But no be happy
John Shull 52:06
to be happy you're not approached? Because the next the next and last topic I'm gonna ask you about are these goddamn Girl Scouts selling their goddamn cookies? Every goddamn where?
Nick VinZant 52:20
I think that girl scout cookies are another necessary evil of the world. I don't want Girl Scout cookies. I don't like Girl Scout Cookie cookies. I don't want to be approached about Girl Scout cookies. I don't want to tell the Girl Scouts. No, but I think it's good for the kids to be out there doing it. They just for me. The particular lesson that they're gonna learn is about how the world is a harsh place and you're gonna get it. No.
John Shull 52:44
We both know that because everyone does this that if you are approached by those damn, girls, you're gonna fold literally $5 A box.
Nick VinZant 52:52
No, I don't I have never bought Girl Scout cookies. Never Never. Never.
John Shull 52:59
Wow, I've I bought probably five boxes a season alone. Wow,
Nick VinZant 53:04
I've never bought them. Never have bought Girl Scout cookies. Not when somebody what I really annoys me is when somebody pulls that crap at work. Hey, my kid sell cookies with don't bring that crap to work, man. Don't bring that to work. I don't think that there should be any kind of that activity, like funding for a birthday gift or wedding gift or anything like that for work. Nothing. Maybe a sympathy card if you lose a loved one. But that's the only thing that I'm willing to do. Anything else was like manage a job. Don't want a job. Well, I want to get you anything. I don't want anything from you. I want a paycheck. That's it. Job.
John Shull 53:47
Right.
Unknown Speaker 53:48
Just a job.
John Shull 53:50
All right. That's all I got. What's the top five today?
Nick VinZant 53:53
Oh, our top five. Top five flavors of Doritos. There's what's your number? What's there's a lot more than you would think.
John Shull 54:07
Yeah, there's a lot. And I'm curious because I have no idea where you're gonna go with your list. Except I hope it's not the one you messaged me about the other day. My number five. spicy sweet chili. Hmm.
Nick VinZant 54:25
There are two flavors that I have tried recently. I just don't remember exactly which one it was. It was either spicy sweet chili or salt severity that I did not like. I just don't remember which one it was. But I didn't like it. I was like, Oh, I don't like that. Okay, it might have been spicy
John Shull 54:43
sweet chili. Well, that's that's a shame because it's delicious. My number
Nick VinZant 54:48
five is cool. Ranch. Number five number five. Cool Ranch. That's overrated the whole way around. Not that great. Meat is great, but it's not that great a flavor number five is Cool Ranch. I stand by it. The foot is down.
John Shull 55:07
Well, not only do I have Cool Ranch on the list, but my number four is flaming hot, Cool Ranch.
Nick VinZant 55:15
They're really starting to roll out some flavors that they're there that Flaming Hots a little too spicy for me. Okay, on a scale of one to 10 one being the lowest 10 being the highest. How much spice do you generally like?
John Shull 55:29
10
Nick VinZant 55:30
Oh, you go all you'll go all the way but can you eat like just go through a bag? Like, not have to take a break with something really spicy?
John Shull 55:40
Not really. I mean, now? Yeah, not Not really. It also depends a lot though. There's, there's a lot that goes into like how spicy things actually are, in addition to how spicy they can be. You know, if you've had a lot of salt if you're drinking beer. But yeah, I mean, I none of these chips that I've ever had. I've been like, damn, I can only have a couple of those.
Nick VinZant 56:03
I still get confused between the difference between medium and mild. I can never remember is medium spicier than mild or is mild, spicier than medium.
John Shull 56:13
Usually goes mild. medium hot. is the
Nick VinZant 56:17
way to me though. Mild, is medium. Now, I've never I've always been confused by this. And I was like which one's hotter? Medium or mild? It just isn't. But what's your number for spicy Nacho? That's as much spices I'm willing to go as spicy Nacho. Okay.
John Shull 56:38
Yeah, I mean, obviously you have to have you know, the original on here somewhere, but yeah, well, I'm fine with that. That's That's it. That's a good one.
Nick VinZant 56:47
I don't think spicy Nacho is the original by the way. I think that's a new flavor. I think you're thinking of nacho cheese. Yeah,
John Shull 56:53
right. I mean, you have to have like a like a cheese flavor. One. Okay, sure. Number three, which I think they technically all are but so my number three actually it's a version of Doritos. Brand new actually within the last couple of months but Dinah Mita Celli lamona Doritos. Delicious, delicious.
Nick VinZant 57:19
I don't generally like a lemon flavored anything.
John Shull 57:23
It's actually Limone
Nick VinZant 57:26
Do you know that? You know what that stands for though. Right? Yeah,
John Shull 57:28
yeah, just say a little more. And you can't say lemon. It's live might be lime. Honestly. Lemon. Lime. I'm not sure I failed my Spanish classes. Oh,
Nick VinZant 57:40
wait. So is it lemon? Or is it lime?
John Shull 57:45
You put the lime in the coconut.
Nick VinZant 57:48
Is it lime or lemon? Oh, it is lime. So it is live that would make more sense than having lemon flavored. Okay, we were wrong. I don't like I don't generally like a lime flavored chip.
John Shull 58:01
I mean, I wasn't going to correct you. But I can know as lime. No one has lemon chips, man. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 58:07
that wouldn't be very good. What's the weirdest flavor a chip you've ever had? Like as a weird flavor? Oh,
John Shull 58:13
man, I don't I mean, there's a local company up here. That makes some pretty there's like weird ones. Like, I always find like dill pickle is weird, but it tastes delicious.
Nick VinZant 58:24
Yeah. Um, I've had ketchup flavored chips in Canada. Okay, Seattle, Canada is closed and you've had like ketchup flavored chips there. Okay. All
John Shull 58:36
right. Coney dog flavored chips. Those have been kinda weird. Yeah, I
Nick VinZant 58:40
don't really like a lot of weird flavors. Chips need to be basic flavors. My number three is a newer one. It's loaded taco.
John Shull 58:45
Okay, that sounds good. I don't think I've had that one yet.
Nick VinZant 58:49
It's good. It's up there. I would put it up there. Right. I like I said, I put it above Cool Ranch. It's a flavor that has a lot of possibilities. I don't think the other flavors that they have like new flavors are really going to go anywhere. But I think loaded taco is going to be here.
John Shull 59:06
Just flipping that salad, that taco salad what, what are number two are my number two rather? Just the what started at all? Nacho Cheese.
Nick VinZant 59:18
My number two is also nacho cheese. I think nacho cheese is the appropriate is appropriate in number two.
John Shull 59:26
Oh, my number one would should be everybody's number one. Cool Ranch baby bear.
Nick VinZant 59:32
I just don't. I'm always like, Okay, I think nacho cheese is better. My number one is zesty cheese, which is a flavor that I have only seen in Canada. Like I said, I live in Seattle. We go to Canada fairly recently and they have very frequently and they have zesty cheese which comes in an orange bag and it's it's the best. It's the best real flavor. I have no idea why It wouldn't have it in the United States.
John Shull 1:00:03
I mean, you kind of mentioned it earlier, because companies don't care about us if they cared Exactly. We'd have zesty cheese Doritos. It's
Nick VinZant 1:00:12
fantastic. What's um, I would say honorable mention, but there's a couple that we left out. Um, did you mention sweet and tangy barbecue? No,
John Shull 1:00:22
because I've this is gonna sound weird, but barbecue chips or barbecue chips. Doritos are not barbecue chips.
Nick VinZant 1:00:31
Right? I can agree with that. I can agree with that. I generally don't. But I would say barbecue chip is my least favorite flavor of chip. I generally don't like like, Hey, you want barbecue like now? I don't. Yeah,
John Shull 1:00:43
I mean, it's not what I'm reaching for first, I'll tell you that.
Nick VinZant 1:00:48
I also generally I will eat them. But I also generally don't like like salt and pepper vinegar or vinegar flavored.
John Shull 1:00:56
Takes a certain occasion for me to enjoy a bag of vinegar chips.
Nick VinZant 1:01:02
Um, some other ones that got left out. So severity comes in a green bag.
John Shull 1:01:09
Now I'm good with that. Yeah, I'm
Nick VinZant 1:01:11
good with that too. They also have spicy sweet chili. It's one of the new flavors that was like that's I don't know what if it was sweet and tangy barbecue spicy. Sweet. I think it was actually spicy sweet chili that I was like, Oh, I don't like that at all.
John Shull 1:01:24
That's that's why it's on my number on my top five list because it's delicious.
Nick VinZant 1:01:29
Okay. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's the whole thing. Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it really helps us out just a couple of quick words. And let us know what you think the best flavor of Doritos is. And if you're in other countries, let us know what kind of Doritos you got. I will travel to another country just for Doritos. Cool rants is overrated. So real quick, I want to take a minute and thank one of the sponsors of our show. Joy mode. Joy mode is a sexual performance booster. So whether you're looking to spice up intimate moments, or just increase your confidence in the bedroom, Joy mode takes an all natural science backed approach using supplements that are peer reviewed by scientists
Gambler Richard Marcus is by far the greatest casino cheat of all time. For more than 25 years he cheated casinos all over the world for millions of dollars every year. We talk cheating in casinos, the life of a Professional Casino Cheat and the one move casinos never figured out. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Best Excuses.
Richard Marcus: 01:16
Pointless: 29:56
Top 5 Excuses: 45:53
Nick VinZant 0:00
Hi welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode cheating at casinos, and the worst excuses,
Richard Marcus 0:21
all their equipment, all their cameras, all their surveillance, all this security. And we just went in there with with balls just you know, pull their pants down and stole their money. If you see somebody betting correctly 100% of the time over a series of bets for surveillance right away, because you have a cheating team. And the move was so good that I actually used surveillance unknowingly help helping me cheat,
Nick VinZant 0:46
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it, it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest is widely considered to be the biggest casino cheat of all time. This is Richard Marcus, how did you get started doing that
Richard Marcus 1:18
kind of happened through my progression through the generative gambling. Throughout my childhood, I was gambling from eight years old, starting with flipping baseball cards for keeps. To make the long story short, I, when I was 18 years old, I bought a brand new convertible Mustang drove out to Vegas, I had $20,000 in it in the bat in the trunk, I gambled it and lost and found myself living in the street in Las Vegas. And eventually, I realized I had to do something in order to survive. So I, I became a deal and a casino. And just looking to get enough money to go home back back to back from New York. And I just could never get the money together was always paying rent in a small apartment. And finally, one night in my Chino I walked into the casino. And it turned out he was a very well known International to cheat. And we started to talk and he said to me, Well, you know, let's meet after your shift. I met him. We clicked you know, I have a good instinct, but whether or not I can trust people, I trusted this guy and you he he's 20 years older than I am. And he proposed that him and I team up together and start cheating casinos. That's how it happened.
Nick VinZant 2:49
So when you started like what were you doing, like how do you? How did you cheat casinos in the beginning, I
Richard Marcus 2:54
was still in a game called Baccarat. And I figured out a way to actually set up the carts in the car chew that they would be dealt out so that the players would win. And I figured out how to do that. And that's the first cheat I ever did. That particular scam that I did. It's called a false shuffle scan, where you where you're shuffling the cards, but you're not really shuffling the cards
Nick VinZant 3:20
now was it just baccarat
Richard Marcus 3:23
that particular scan was just Baccarat. But then after that scan was over, I joined up with Joe and he had two other people on his team. So we became a four a four person cheating team. And we went all over the world for well 12 or 13 years together. And then after that Joe retired, and then I took over the team for another 12 years. So I was actually cheating for 25 years professionally and doing all kinds of scams, but they're the other scams are all based on manipulation of chips, we would make our bets after the decision was already known. It's called past posting. So I'm basically considered to have been the best professional casino cheat of all time.
Nick VinZant 4:15
How much do you think that you got all together?
Richard Marcus 4:18
There's a difference between how much I got and how much I made over 25 years. You know, we actually cheated casinos out of say $25 million. In the winter we'd be working the you know, the Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, we're all living a rowboat. These are places where there's going to be a lot of people and the casinos are going to be busy. In the summer we would be in Monte Carlo or South France or South America. And then the rest of the time we would be working in Las Vegas and Atlantic City and the rest of the American or Canadian casinos. So the expenses, you know added that 25 million we probably spent 40% of but just on traveling and eating and hotel expenses when
Nick VinZant 5:03
you look at kind of other people who are professional casino cheats, right? Is that kind of par for the course in that sense like is that generally
Richard Marcus 5:12
speaking, that statement is correct. Now there have been a few, one shot stamps, all in Baccarat. Because Baccarat is unique in that once the cards are dealt and put into the card shoe and they come out, the player decisions cannot affect the order of the cards. And blackjack that's different, the cards are shuffled, but you can never know the exact order of the cards throughout a whole deck or a whole six or eight deck shoe. Because the players decisions affect the order of the cards. So people have come up with ways to film and record the order of the cards, therefore they would have knowledge of the whole eight tech show. So these scams have grossed, you know, nobody really knows for sure. But between 50 and $100 million. Were in one particular sitting one to one particular night in a casino. They've got more than a million dollars in one night. I mean, most I ever got in one night was maybe 120 $150,000. Okay, so we're talking, you know, much larger stuff. But the difference between me and them is they all get caught. I never got caught. So I rather have a few million and not have any problems, then get the, you know, 40 or 50 million get caught and then have to give it back and maybe go to jail.
Nick VinZant 6:39
How did you never get caught?
Richard Marcus 6:41
The basic reason is that I knew what to stop and I wasn't great. You know, I know when I had a lot of heat. There was one point in time in Las Vegas when I'm known for this particular move called Savannah, like Savannah, Georgia, but it was actually named after the stripper in a in a titty bar, who was actually giving us lap dances when we thought of the move, but we just knew cuz I was doing that particular Savannah move and there was a lot of heat on me. Because everybody in the surveillance business, all the Gaming Commission in Las Vegas gaming control board, they all knew I was the one cheating, but they couldn't figure out what I was doing. Now it's kind of like rubbing their nose in it. And the move was so good that I actually used surveillance filming me to inadvertent they were unknowingly helped helping me cheat. But it was the best move of all time because it never got caught the casinos never figured it out until I revealed it in the book. And through that, through that, Nick I became a what I'm doing now I became a consultant to casinos I now work for casinos all over the world, training them on how to protect themselves from people like me to make it short. I would bet $10,000 on the Roulette Wheel and chips if I won, I got paid if I lost I just took the bet back and they never saw so you
Nick VinZant 8:20
never got caught but this move the savannah like can you just kind of describe what is it like
Richard Marcus 8:25
this was a kiss move keep it simple, stupid. Which cuz you know, it's I always think when you're taking millions of dollars from them that you have something that's really sophisticated, it was actually the simplest move ever, you know, if you have a grandmother, a great grandmother or grandfather that's, you know, just in his or her 90s or hundreds, I could teach them the whole move in five seconds and take them into the casino and do it as long as they're capable of just lifting two chips off the auto layout and, and putting two chips down like making a bet. That's all it requires. And what it was is I would bet now this chip here this white chip represents $5,000. This red chip is $5. And in in most casinos in Las Vegas, the $5,000 chips and the $5 chips are the same size. So I would make the bet on on roulette, I would bet the $5,000 and $5 on top and the $5 chip on top would be jotted out slightly like this. So it's jutted out, pointing toward the dealer. Now when the dealer looks at it, the dealer sees that there is a $5 chip on top and also sees that there's a chip on the bottom, but the dealer cannot see the color of the chip on the bottom. Therefore, the dealer assumes that what what he or she is looking at is a bet of $10 It's they psychologically are manipulated into thinking that it's a $10 bet, okay? Because and they never step out of the box to like, you know, to look down at the BET, because it's all the way down at the bottom of the layout. So what's the bet actually, is the $5,005, just like that. So what happens? It's spent on an outside Column Bet, which pays two to one, there's three columns on the on the Roulette layout, where you bet each one page two to one there at the bottom of the layout. If one of my columns wins, I just go yes. I wonder bad? Yes, there it is. 10,000 bucks, winner, yes. Now the dealer doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about it was the dealer thinks that it's a $10 bet like this. But it's really a $5,005 bet. Like this, right? So they do what they do or thinks like, I'm some kind of not, what's this guy getting all excited about? He wants $10 or $20? To for one, right? But I have a $5,000 chip underneath there. And then finally, I have to say to the dealer look, look at it, because the deal was saying No, sir, you only have $10. So I said, Look, come down and look at it. I'm pointed to it like this, look at it, and then the deal would calm them down and look at it, and then boom, see it and they get bitten us? Because there's a $5 $5,000 chip sitting on there. It's a $10,000 payoff, and that's a huge payoff. Right? You know, and, and we only did this in, you know, heartbreak casinos where they had that kind of a maximum where you could bet up to 5000 and get paid 10,000. So the dealer would then tell the supervisor, look, the guy had a $5,000 chip onto there. And the supervisor would say like, Why didn't you call it out, because they have to alert the pit, to these big bets like that, before they spend the wall, but obviously the dealer, it's not calling out the best coach there. They wouldn't see it. So then they get suspicious and what to do, Nick, when they get suspicious, they call surveillance and surveillance couldn't run it, run it back. Right? And, and they can run it right back. And within seconds they can get they can see what happened, was it a legitimate bet or not. And they run it back. And sure enough, they see it's legitimate, that I made the bet well before the deal responsible, and they have to pay it, and $1,000. But what happens when I lose? Now, there's five, there's $5,005, over there, on the top of the wheel is my partner, and my partner is concentrating on the where the when and on what number the ball drops, and my partner being right on top of the wheel has actually a better angle on the wheel, I can actually see it, see where that ball drops a fraction of a second before the dealer does. So if he yells, shake your head or whatever, because people yell and scream in casinos all the time. That's my signal that I gotta take that off the layup, right? Because, you know, I'm not going to let them take that they take it that's $5,000 that are gone. Right? So and, and it's not like I had to go out and grab it and you know, do some kind of, you know, violent move to go get the chips back, all I had to do was sit very softly, just pick it off. Now you would think to deal with would catch me every time. But the dealer only actually saw me pick the chips up one of every five pipes. I mean, we kept records. So we know it's about 20% of the time, the deal would actually catch. So if the dealer didn't catch me, and I just gently picked up the bet. Right? And it disappeared in my pocket. Right? It was all over with, you know, they that's it, it's done. But when the dealer did catch me, right, it was like, they didn't react kindly because it's a flagrant violation when you pull off a losing bet, before they can take it and they they would say, hey, put that back. And then as soon as that happened, right, I would immediately I had a glass. Well, not a coffee cup. I would have a cocktail glass in my hand. And I would immediately go into a drunk routine like this. What happened? What would happen and the dealer is yelling and screaming, you know, put that backpack. Oh, so what do I put back? Do I put back the $5,000 bet with a $5 chip on top? No, I put back and dollars you know usually a supervisor or pit boss would come running into the pit because the deal was string on the pitfalls are to know why to deal with screen and the dealer explains Yeah, he tried to pick up his bat after it last. And I'm like this Hey, Mr. Popo, how's it going? What's up video we're gonna go out drinking after this comeback, I'm drinking with me, right? And it's only about $10. So they don't ever call surveillance to see what happened. They don't care. It's just $10. But when it winds when it wins, it's a legitimate bet.
Nick VinZant 15:16
But you could only do that though, once you won, you had you'd leave the table, you'd have to go to another place.
Richard Marcus 15:25
Absolutely, absolutely. Not only not only that, but even if the bet lost, I would have we would have to leave the casino, or at least at least come back on a different shift. Why? Because, let's say at, let's say some pit boss decided, or somebody in surveillance decided that after they ran the the captain the video back and they saw it was a legitimate bet, right? What happens if they decide? Well, let's see if this guy was in here. Before? How long has he been here? Right? Because it's still a suspicious thing that nobody saw the back at me. And then I figured out and I never gave them that chance. We were smart enough to know that one bet win or lose and we don't forget Vegas, you got 6070 casinos where you can do this.
Nick VinZant 16:10
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?
Richard Marcus 16:13
Absolutely. So
Nick VinZant 16:16
easiest game to cheat at hardest game to cheat that
Richard Marcus 16:21
easiest game to chew that roulette. Because there's so many hands out there all the time. There's so many people betting. And most importantly, the, the angle between the angle and distance between the dealer and the artist player away in distance at the bottom of the wheel is greater than in any other Casino.
Nick VinZant 16:41
What about the hardest one what's
Richard Marcus 16:43
craps? Because you have it's a big table, but you have three employees on it, you have a stickman. And you have what's called a base deal, or on each side that that takes the dice, excuse me that pays the bets takes the bets and the stickman pushes the dice to the for the day shooter. And sometimes you're gonna have a box man who sits across from the set man and watches all the action. So and in order to the actual physicality of the moves are harder on a craft table than on any of any of the other games,
Nick VinZant 17:19
like what usually tips you off to achieve the acting
Richard Marcus 17:23
weird and doing strange things would apply to high tech cheating. Because they've got gadgets, and they've got a they've got to constantly test and touch their gadgets, especially around games like electronic roulette and slot machines. You know, that would that would be a giveaway on the regular standard cap table games, it would be very hard to detect before they do anything to cheating. Unless they're acting really nervous or they're craning their heads to see other people's cards. But what I teach is there are some real subtleties about how casino surveillance or even table games people can catch on to IT professional cheeky is by the way they bet the chips they have, they bet their chips in a certain way. So they do or to ever have to touch the chips, or have a second look at their chips. And the way they do that is by betting betting their chips always perfectly straight, and one on top of the other. Not slanted off like I was showing before we don't move perfectly straight. Because nobody bats that way. People when they're bending their chips, especially in games like roulette, when people are making multiple bets, they're betting on all the numbers, you know, they're moving around, and they don't pay attention to their bets, they just put the chips down and they don't care how they land. They don't care if they're in the center of the number or if they're not stacked up one on top of the other, but a professional casino GDP, they're all the series of bets that they make. And in roulette, a lot of bets are necessary in some of these advanced scams, that they they make sure if they make six or seven or eight bets on the Roulette layout, let's say six or seven numbers, their bets are always perfectly placed in the middle of the number which is in the middle of the box, and perfectly stacked one ship on the other. So I always say and the dealers are spending a lot of time on The Game fixing up all the messy bets on the layout, so they never touch or look at the bets that are perfectly placed. So I warn them, which kind of seems contradictory, but it's never nevertheless true. If you see somebody betting correctly, perfectly correctly 100% of the time over a series of bets call surveillance right away because you have a cheating team.
Nick VinZant 19:57
How How prevalent is cheating in it So, you know, is this something that's happening every day in every casino? Or is this something that is happening occasionally? Like, how prevalent?
Richard Marcus 20:08
Does it happen every day in a casino? Every casino that's, you know, got 30 or 40 or 50 tables or more? Yes. To the extent of what it happens of what cheating occurs? Is it major cheating? Is it something that could take the cheating for 1000s of dollars 90% 95% of the time, not that somebody's you know, maybe trying to add a quick $10 to their winning bet, or somebody trying to pull a losing bet off for $10. Much more common now than the actual cheating is what we call advantage play. Which means that intelligent people who gamble and will have the patience to look at certain games that that there could actually be a mathematical advantage to them, instead of to the house, like I'm sure you've heard of card counting. So now with all the gaming and the casinos going on, you know, more than ever more, more, more anywhere now in the United States and anywhere else. There's, there's, there's a big cheating scam going on somewhere, you know, every week for sure, like a major scam going on every week. Sure. But when you compare, you know, when you analyze that, taking into account of how many casinos there are, you know, it's it's not that much.
Nick VinZant 21:32
Do you think are more people doing it now than they have in the past? Yes.
Richard Marcus 21:36
More genius going on now. For a lot of reasons. One is when you talk about the advance, the advances in technology, the cheats, and a hacker isn't all that they they utilize it and adapt to new technology most fast, much faster than casino still. So and now the small time cheats, know that casinos are more interested in the big time hacking and technology so that they think well now we're just a little we're just little cheats in here looking for make, you know, a couple $100 a day. So they go in and they feel they have a better a better chance of avoiding getting caught because of the increase in overall cheat.
Nick VinZant 22:23
It's the last one did cheats, no other cheats? Like did you know other people? Oh,
Richard Marcus 22:29
he's low. It absolutely did. Uh, we were, like I said before, we cheated every game, but we really liked to work let the most and we would travel the world. So if we're in Reno, Nevada, one weekend, and we're playing roulette. And we noticed a couple of guys in the Bahamas. A week later, who were also on the wheel on the left table while we were in Reno, Nevada. You get very suspicious. And then if you see him two weeks later in London on a roulette wheel, you know, their work, you know, they're doing stuff. You know, they're not they're not just traveling around. Damn. Right. So what one, one really great story is, I'll tell you very quickly is we were in Lake Tahoe, Nevada. And we were on our we were on the roulette table. I say on the wheel, I mean on the Roulette. So we were on the wheel getting ready to pass false $100 Chip straight up on a number underneath the dolly. You know, when when you when the dealer Yeah, see, so would they put a dolly on top of it, right? So we were there to put $100 underneath that Dolly, after we already know what the number was to get paid 3500, right. And we're all ready to do the move. And at the right time when the when the mechanic that's the person who switches the chips or puts in more chips. At the at the moment of truth on the mechanic when our mechanic is getting is preparing to do the move, his hand shoots out, shoots out to where the chips are like this to try and switch on right. And then another hand shot out from the other direction and the two hands collided like this and the chips went flying all over the place. Right. In other words, the the our mechanics Han and another hand collided. And the dolly went flying and the chips went flying. And it was a it was an embarrassing, but we know who that we know. We knew what they were doing and they knew what we were doing which was basically the same thing. So the guy Joe who was my mentor and all this, he had the immediate presence of mine so immediately spill a drink all over a layout to get everybody's attention off what happened and create chaos until nobody really even complained about it. The deal never said anything about it. So we cleaned it off. But then we had a problem because we Do we had another team working in in Lake Tahoe while we were and we were getting in each other's way. So we had to settle this somehow. So we left the table, they left the table, we started walking around looking for them, they started walking around looking for us. And we met up with up and another casino in a bar. And it turned out, they were from Italy. And most of the professional passports thing, or relationships are Italians. And the difference between our analysis in Italy it's a generational thing. And most and most of the professional casino cheating thieves in Italy, mafia people are actually part of mafia families. Yeah, we, we knew that. So you know, we had to be careful with these guys. So make the long story short, we made a truce with them. We were at the time on the south shore of Lake Tahoe, there were only four casinos to on one side of the street to on the other side of the street, we made a truce with them, that's okay, you guys stay here. And you guys, and we stay here and we don't get in each other's way. And it was fine. And then three years, you know, for the next 10 or 15 years, every time we ran into them. We ran into them several times, like six or seven times, we would we would sit down and forth. And we would discuss Okay, you guys can have these casinos. And we'll take these casinos. And and you know, besides them over the years, you know, I recognized other people's cheating other professionals. But you know, you know, I see, I see, you know, amateur cheats all the time. But now I also don't want to cover work for casinos looking for cheats. And I see these amateur cheats all the time that are just taking a shot for 20 bucks, 50 bucks or something like that. I see them all the time. And once in a while I will I see. professional team that I know can do that.
Nick VinZant 26:54
Did you ever feel bad about it?
Richard Marcus 26:58
Absolutely not. You know what, Nick, after a while, because I said in the beginning of the show, I said that I was a degenerate gambler, which was really what led me to cheat. And even in the first years of cheating, I would go out and make 20 $25,000 in a night cheating. And then I would go gamble it three hours after I finish shooting and lose it all and then go back to the cheating. And it became like a like a cycle. I was I was cheating, risking my s cheating. This happened for six months. Whatever I made, I just went gambled and then because I always knew I could cheat. So you know, I finally learned to stop that and I finally started keep money. So we made so once I started to keep the money, I accumulated a lot of money quickly. And then after a couple of years, to be honest, it became more about the adrenaline. It was so much fun. You know, it was just so much fun. It was like David against Goliath, right? But it was it was just, it was just, you know, what, all their equipment, all their cameras, all their surveillance, all the security. And we just went in there with with balls, just you know, pull their pants down and stole their money. You know, it was it was it was just like the adrenaline rush. You got off that. And I people ask you that question all the time. You know, do you you know? Do you regret what you're doing? Do what you did, and I'm never gonna I'm not gonna bullshit people say, oh, yeah, you know, now, you know, I I found Jesus or somebody and I realized, you know, I did something wrong, Elena, I loved it. The best part of my life was Casino.
Nick VinZant 28:43
That's all the questions I guys anything, anything that we missed? Or how can people get a hold of you? I know you mentioned a book, what's the name of it? Where can people find
Richard Marcus 28:50
the name of the book is American roulette. In the UK and Europe, it's called The Great casino heist. And the easiest way to get it it's right on Amazon, or any other online bookseller. And it's, it's really an entertaining story. And my website is now called global table games. protection.com global table games protection.com.
Nick VinZant 29:19
I want to thank Richard so much for joining us if you want to connect with him. We have linked to him on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included his information in the episode description if you want to see some of the tricks that he does, because while he's talking about the savannah move, he's actually demonstrating it so if you want to see that the YouTube version of this interview will be live on February 22 at 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the point pointless part of the show? Have you ever told a really big lie? Like something that would get you fired? Or ruin a relationship or something like that? No,
John Shull 30:11
I'm a pretty honest person. I don't I don't think I've told the lie that is that bad? No.
Nick VinZant 30:17
Okay, on a scale of one to 10, with 10 being the worst and one being like the least. How big of a lie? Would you say that you've told?
John Shull 30:26
Probably five, maybe six.
Nick VinZant 30:28
I've never told a lie that would get me like straight up fired. But I've told a couple that if like there was an accumulation, they would probably fire me. When
John Shull 30:38
I talk to somebody. I feel like they're almost as lying anyways. Like, why would someone tell me the truth about something?
Nick VinZant 30:47
Oh, yeah, I would say that probably. At least half of what people say is probably some sort of lie or an exaggeration. How many
John Shull 31:00
lies a day do you think you you tell a day? Probably
Nick VinZant 31:04
less than five? I would say I tell less than five lies slash exaggeration. A day's? Yeah. And probably mainly zero, or one, but usually less than five. How about you?
John Shull 31:17
I mean, for instance, you know, say or, you know, you're getting your morning coffee somewhere. And the person goes, how are you this morning? And you go fine, good. When you really just want to go? And I'm not okay. I've had a shaved morning. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 31:30
but there's most of the time when I lie to somebody, it's a lie of convenience. So that like, I don't have to deal with a situation that doesn't really matter. Right. Like, like you said, like, how are you doing? Well, pretty bad. Actually pretty low today. But yeah, just be like, I'm doing good. Just because I don't want to have that conversation.
John Shull 31:50
But like, what if we What if you start a trend, that for the next week? You answer those questions, honestly, I wonder what what reactions you would get from people that probably like, Oh, God didn't ask for this?
Nick VinZant 32:04
Oh, I think that society has to have a certain level of bullshit in order to operate smoothly. Like we've all got to kind of lie to each other. In order for all of this to work, I would actually make an argument that not only do we have to have a certain level of BS, we have to have a pretty high level of BS.
John Shull 32:23
But do you have to have a good BS detector? I think it's more important.
Nick VinZant 32:28
No, not really, I don't think so. I think people are pretty good at telling when somebody's telling when someone's lying to them about something important. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that, in order for society to operate, functionally 75 to 80%, of everything that we do has to just be BS.
John Shull 32:49
Wow, that is a I mean, we could really break it down to one and spend the entire hour talking about this. But
Nick VinZant 32:57
But think about it in this way, right? Like, how many times do you ask somebody how they're doing, or have a conversation that you're really not interested in? Or do a job that you really don't care about and pretend like that's important, or do other things that like, Oh, this is really big deal? We got to really focus and like, No, you really don't.
John Shull 33:15
On a daily basis, we do less things of importance that actually matter than we think now if that's lying, or an over exaggeration. I don't know if I know the difference. But I definitely think I agree with you to some extent. I just don't know if you're flying as included in that.
Nick VinZant 33:31
Yeah, I don't know if I would go so far as to say it's a lie. But I think that you kind of have to just put up with a certain amount of BS I asked the audience. Have you ever told a really big lie? How many people do you think have said said yes. How many people do you think said no? Oh,
John Shull 33:46
I would say it's an eight out of 10. Right? Or, you know, eight to eight out of 10 ratio probably at 20. That I've told the big lie. 62%
Nick VinZant 33:54
said yes. 40% said no, I would have thought it would be a little bit higher. No, that people have always said a big lie. But then again, they might be lying about the fact that they've never told a
John Shull 34:05
really big lie. They Might Be Lying about the fact of the choice they make on the pool. That's what you're saying.
Nick VinZant 34:11
I think that you do have to just accept the fact that all of life is a certain amount of Bs, and then you just move on. And if you can't accept that, you're never really going to be happy.
John Shull 34:21
Here's the thing, if everyone was if honestly, it was just naturally born into our, you know, way that we look at life or act in life, then it wouldn't be one of the best traits we talk about. Alright, let's get to some shout outs. All right, Jeremy Foley, and then Frosinone and I know I screwed up that last name terribly, but whatever. I like Evans, so that so that's why it's in there. Sean Conley, Caden Berg. Don't hear a lot of Caden's out Alfonso Chavez, Matt Teague, Ricky Rick, that can be real. Or maybe it is Jonathan Alexander quarry, Midland Luigi, Misa din. I like Luigi, right.
Nick VinZant 35:16
Yeah, that's a good name. You don't really hear it that much because you're gonna get too much crap.
John Shull 35:22
Jack Heaton. And we're gonna end here with just a simple old, good old American name of Ben Thomas.
Nick VinZant 35:30
Who do you generally like more Shawn sh a wn or Sean S E A N. Oh, all right.
John Shull 35:43
I'm going to say it's from personal experience. I'll go with s HAWNU. Like an
Nick VinZant 35:49
sh a wn. Shawn more than an S E A N Shawn.
John Shull 35:53
Yeah, I think so.
Nick VinZant 35:56
I don't I don't know if I agree with that. I don't know if I would agree with that. My name is Sha Sha
John Shull 36:03
wn.
Nick VinZant 36:04
Okay. To me though. I would say that S E A N Shan does seem a little bit more shifty than an sh a wn. Shawn.
John Shull 36:15
But or you could have an S H A UN. The burly blow your doors off. No, I
Nick VinZant 36:21
don't think that that that's that's just too much. That's doing too much. What's up, man? My four year old just came in Riley say Hi, Uncle John. Hi. You got candy your mouth? We got
John Shull 36:37
all right, let's see I got 10 things here for you do rapid fire. I'm still trying to think of a good like title. But no one has a good title for this. I just I'm
Nick VinZant 36:47
just impressed that you have gone from basically like a two minute introduction of this to getting it down to like, under 45 seconds. Like eventually you're just gonna get to it. You're not a man who gets to the point.
John Shull 37:00
Which is funny because I feel like that's all my job is is quick decisions of getting to the point but yeah, you're right. I do like to tell a good story and can
Nick VinZant 37:09
elaborate for you. Anyways, details. Alright,
John Shull 37:13
so picked out 10 random ass things. Nick's gonna give us first thoughts on them. And we'll see if I cut them off and keep moving on here to make this quick and expedited. Alright, for First off. High beams.
Nick VinZant 37:26
Oh, I love high beams. I love a chance to put on my high beams. It's awesome. I love it.
John Shull 37:33
For those of you that may not know what high beams are. They're basically your bright lights on your headlights. And I'm gonna go the opposite way around. So they're quite annoying. And I'm not even entirely sure that they should even be on vehicles. But that's just me. Oh, it's
Nick VinZant 37:46
essential. You're not a man who grew up in the Midwest. I grew up in Kansas and you would put on your high beams at least once a week because there wasn't that many people on now. I miss it. I miss not being able to put on the high beams. Blind people.
John Shull 38:00
Well, this holiday just happened. But Presidents Day.
Nick VinZant 38:06
What is that? Why is that a holiday? I mean, I'm grateful for having the holiday off. I like it. But I'm always like, which one are we celebrating? We hear about them enough. They got enough credit. Okay.
John Shull 38:18
Alright, Pop Tarts. Heated or not?
Nick VinZant 38:23
I will eat them cold that appear laziness, but they do taste better heated. I'd rather heat them up in general, I would rather heat things up.
John Shull 38:31
I said this to somebody the other day they didn't believe me. I don't think I've ever taken the time or been presented with a pop tart out of a toaster oven.
Nick VinZant 38:43
Oh, you got to try it. It's fantastic. It's it's better. I'm not going to go ahead and say it's that much better. The problem is it's good enough cold that you're like I don't feel like I feel like to have this.
John Shull 38:56
Alright, gloves without fingers. Why
Nick VinZant 39:00
I'm an adult. Mittens should be banned past the age of 10. You don't mittens past the age of 10. So suck it up. Unless you're climbing Everest or you're under the age of 10. You should have gloves with fingers. Show me somebody wearing mittens. I'm gonna show you an idiot I don't like use your damn hands. Because then you gotta you as an adult have to use your hands too much to be wearing mittens and then you got to take them off. You got to put something else on so wasted time you're an adult get rid of the mittens.
John Shull 39:39
Just for the record. I don't agree with you but I'm gonna keep moving.
Nick VinZant 39:42
How many pairs of mittens do you have there? mitten man.
John Shull 39:45
I actually don't have a pair of mittens. I'm not against mittens like you though.
Nick VinZant 39:49
I'm against him. I firmly anti mitten.
John Shull 39:53
I'm okay with me. Like I'm okay with mittens. I'm not. I actually think a you know whether you are interested in men or Women, I think that your partner can look very cute and a pair of mittens.
Nick VinZant 40:04
Oh, so your wife has mittens and you like it?
John Shull 40:07
Yeah, she wears nice little hat like goes along with the mittens. It's a cute little look on her.
Nick VinZant 40:11
I'll accept that women can wear mittens. Men cannot wear men's men cannot wear mittens. Men should not have mittens. Throw them out. Okay.
John Shull 40:27
Sorry, I wasn't expecting to go off like that on that one. All right, coming back here. Car air fresheners.
Nick VinZant 40:32
I've never had one. I've never had a car air freshener. If you have a bunch of car. If you have a bad bunch of air fresheners in your vehicle, you are telling me that you do not maintain either your hygiene or your cars cleanliness. All right, Valentine's
John Shull 40:45
Day. Chocolates. Valentine's
Nick VinZant 40:49
Day is the biggest sham holiday. Nobody wants to be doing this. Men, women, whatever. Nobody wants to be doing this. But you also can't be the one person who doesn't do it. So we've all got to go along. Have you
John Shull 41:04
ever been in that situation where you are the person who fails on Valentine's Day? No,
Nick VinZant 41:11
although I have had relationships in which the girlfriend or wife drawn if you're listening didn't wish me a happy Valentine's Day. And I was a little upset about it. I was a little hurt.
John Shull 41:26
Were you a little hurt a little bit?
Nick VinZant 41:29
Only because I did something and they did it. Right. It'd be like any, but I think that's the same thing.
John Shull 41:33
All right. Q tips. Oh, I
Nick VinZant 41:37
love them. I use a Q tip in my ears pretty much every day, I'm gonna go ahead and say that the feeling of putting a Q tip in your ear is second to if not better, than having relations of a physical nature. That feeling of getting like whoa, I would almost like it's closed. Now. I've been married for 10 years. So I've you know, I've been there. I've rounded the bases many a time. And if somebody was like, would you rather round the bases are cleaning your ears with a Q tip when they're itchy? Oh, I might just clean out my ears with a Q tip when they're itchy. It's better than sex.
John Shull 42:15
Man there is like if you have a little bit of wax buildup in there and you get like where you go around a couple of times, but it kind of like you said kind of itches in there who? Who give me the goose pimples? Do you say goose bumps or goose pimples? What do you say
Nick VinZant 42:31
goose bumps because I'm a normal person that I've met if I had those pimples, if I sound like we've got a terrible thing log in. That
John Shull 42:40
would be the poll that I asked. That's what I know. That's fine. All right, getting getting to the end of the list here. Animals held in captivity, like animals at SeaWorld.
Nick VinZant 42:55
I don't like it when they're at an amusement park. I don't like it when it's there. I think that there's something that's a little bit off about that. But I think being in a zoo, is maybe that's not the best thing. But I also think that it raises awareness for the animal as a whole. I'm not going to use the word necessarily evil. But I'm going to go ahead and say that like look that raises awareness about that animal and probably does a lot for protecting the animal overall, but I don't really think that they should be at theme parks. That's a little bit like hey, wait a minute. How did you Why is this here?
John Shull 43:29
I agree with you. i This is probably an unpopular thought. But I think zoos are actually good. Because I think it gives people who can't go on safaris you know can't go underwater. And look at sharks you know, in, in in non zoo settings. It gives you a respect of the animal that's safe for you. And the animal so I'm I'm all in on zoos. I like zoos. I
Nick VinZant 43:54
like zoos. I think it's probably overall a good thing.
John Shull 43:58
All right, last last thing here face cream.
Nick VinZant 44:02
Oh, you got to moisturize man. You got to take care of skin.
John Shull 44:04
Do you face cream course? Of course.
Nick VinZant 44:09
I don't know the difference between face cream is the same as moisturizer but I'm gonna put on some sunscreen and moisturizer. I put on sunscreen every day. Even if we're not going outside.
John Shull 44:18
Are you? Are you serious?
Nick VinZant 44:20
Yeah. Why wouldn't you?
John Shull 44:21
You put sunscreen on when you're not even going?
Nick VinZant 44:25
It comes in the little thing you can get like lotion with sunscreen and I put on some lotion after I get out of the shower.
John Shull 44:32
Okay, okay that I okay that's why the like this.
Nick VinZant 44:35
That's why I look like this and I'm 65
John Shull 44:39
You're gonna have skin like a leather belt.
Nick VinZant 44:42
Yeah, right main moisturize your face. Take care of yourself. I don't understand that. I think that this was the thing you and I are old enough to remember when like being a metro sexual was an insult. Like what are you doing over there taking off and putting on sunscreen? That's weird putting on sunscreen. Have you run in taking care of your heart? Like you're getting their hair cut? Like, remember that? It's
John Shull 45:08
quite incredible to see. You know, the change of thought the thought process of people from that time to even where we are now like, you know if you're if you're not mid 30s, early 40s If you're much younger, you know it's wasn't always like
Nick VinZant 45:26
that remembered I forgot completely about that. How you would be people will be like, Look at this metrosexual comb in his hair. Yeah.
John Shull 45:35
Well, I remember even if you were a boy and you use hairspray, you would get picked on for hairspray. Like,
Nick VinZant 45:42
oh, yeah, but I remember being made fun of his like, Look at your hair. You got hair? Jelena like no, I don't. It's just hair. Okay. Is that your thing?
John Shull 45:51
That's it. Let's move on.
Nick VinZant 45:53
So our top five is top five best excuses. Whether it's a personal thing, work thing. Top five best excuses. What's your number five.
John Shull 46:05
So number five is pretty bad. I mean, a lot of mine are pretty basic. But this one's really basic. And that's just having some kind of appointments that pops up the morning of the day of work as if you don't schedule appointments, weeks out most times, you know, and we have all the ample things now a calendar on your phone, everything else to let you know ahead of time. But I always love when people are like, Yeah, I have a doctor's appointment. Like in 10 minutes. I'm not gonna be able to come in today.
Nick VinZant 46:35
That's a good one. I always like the last second doctor's appointment. My number five is computer issues. Let's call him having computer problems.
John Shull 46:46
I think that is basically a work from home problem now but you know, because I just go into the office then.
Nick VinZant 46:55
Yeah, we haven't computer problems man gotta fix it here. Can't get my login. Computer issues are a great things like all the downloads not working had to read down like all computer had to restart. That's why I was 20 minutes late to this meeting. Number four.
John Shull 47:13
Like those like a family member getting sick, or ill, but it's like your employer or your boss or your co workers have no idea who that family member is like all my Aunt Sarah got into a serious car accident. I gotta go visit her in Indianapolis. I'm going to be gone for three days.
Nick VinZant 47:30
Like my cousin's best friends, former roommate, my minor four simply I forgot. Because I don't think people can really argue with you that much. You're like, Look, I just forgot. Like, well, I forgotten stuff too. Like he kind of it's kind of over. It's like somebody's saying that they're sorry. It's kind of done. Like, see,
John Shull 47:49
I don't have that one. Or like that I overslept on here. Because to me, those, those aren't really excuses because I get it. Like I get it on 100% Because we've all we've all done it no matter what stage you are as a professional or what you do. You know, you've either have overslept, you know, or you just have forgotten like it happens. Okay, number three. So this might be like a region specific thing, but it's always on days where we're gonna get snow or rain, or something where someone always goes, Yeah, I'm not gonna be able to make it in weather's bad. And then you look up like where they live. And it's like, Tony, you do have power. I'm looking at your house right now. And it says you have power. No, I really don't have power. Right? You want to work today?
Nick VinZant 48:38
Car trouble is a really good one. Car trouble could be a really good one. I didn't put it on the list. But car trouble should be on the Honor mention. Mine's a little bit related to that. My number three is traffic. Traffic's bad. Nobody in a big city is going to argue with you about traffic.
John Shull 48:53
They listen so as so as I've told people before that have told me that I said, Okay. Well, you get here when you get here. And then you can just hear the deflation in their voice like, like, they want you to say, okay, don't worry about coming in, then just go and turn around. Like, you know what, we'll see you tomorrow, like, no, if you're already in the car, get your butt to work.
Nick VinZant 49:13
My number two, I think is the best sick excuse that you can have, which is stomach. Because everybody knows that that's like that can happen at anytime. You're generally pretty sick, and you can also recover from it pretty quickly. It's like the perfect illness is a staggering stomach bug. Because that can be like 12 hours, and
John Shull 49:34
you'll find out what goes on my number one not to cut you off. My number one is pretty much the same thing. But it's more specific. And that's food poisoning. All
Nick VinZant 49:43
food poisoning is a great one. Right?
John Shull 49:45
You don't feel better now. And you can't really prove it right? You can't you know, it comes in and goes pretty quick. And it's just like, you know, first of all, why are you call you you're supposed to start in 10 minutes. You sound like you just woke up or you've been throwing up for the last three ours, get the fuck out of here. John,
Nick VinZant 50:02
is it Aryan who has heard many excuses in his life? I don't know why you didn't put this in. But I think this is the ultimate excuse and possibly a reason for having them in the first place. I could justify it solely. I know, you're gonna say, Yeah, Kid kids, kids are the best excuse you could ever have. Maybe justifying having kids. Because if you tell someone with kids, that your kids are the reason you can't do something that is the end of that conversation, and there's no questions being asked.
John Shull 50:26
So actually, that's one of my few honorable mentions as kids, I didn't put it on the list, strictly because that is probably the only reason why I call in sick or don't show up to work are my kids, like, I get it? If you have kids, I mean, it's not an excuse. Kids ruin everything, and their disease vectors. And it's just yeah, they, if you have seven sick days for the year, you're gonna use seven of them on kids alone.
Nick VinZant 50:54
What's on your honorable mention?
John Shull 50:57
So these two are really hyper specific, but in my time of working as professional, I swear that I've heard these will say three I'll break the one down into two but back injuries back and shoulder injuries specifically. Like it's hard to argue against those.
Nick VinZant 51:16
Yeah, I can't really argue with back I would agree with that, like hurt my back.
John Shull 51:20
And then it's and then it's always like house issues like my furnace went out, or my basement flooded. I'm
Nick VinZant 51:27
perfectly okay with people lying to me about not coming to work. You have anything in your auto mentioned, the only thing I had would be car trouble. Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. It really helps us out and let us know what you think are some of the best excuses. I really think kids are the ultimate excuse because there's just no questions afterwards. But let us know what you think are some of the best excuses out there.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Sleight of hand scams, Edge Working, hacking into slot machines, world-traveling teams of Professional Casino Cheats. George Joseph has spent the last 50 years catching people cheating in casinos. We talk the best and worst casino cheats, 100 million dollar scams and the main reason cheaters get caught. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Messiest Foods to Eat.
George Joseph: 01:21
Pointless: 35:35
Top 5 Messiest Foods: 54:45
Nick VinZant 0:12
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode casino cheating and messy foods,
George Joseph 0:21
maybe the biggest scheme that's happened, we estimate somewhere around 100 million. So a lot of the great, great casino cheats, never really got caught in the casino, they got rented out. But it turns out, he was a retired rocket scientist. And he had reverse engineered the random number generator,
Nick VinZant 0:45
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest has worked in the casino industry for decades. His job is to figure out who's cheating and how they're doing it. This is casino cheating consultant, George Joseph. So how hard is it to cheat at a casino? Well, it
George Joseph 1:21
isn't hard at all, to cheat harder, hard parts getting away with it. There's all kinds of guys that that cheat, lie, do a whole program. Why don't we only catch the amateurs. And I'll show somebody I'll show the surveillance staffer casino staffer cops, the same trick being done by professionals. And then the same trick being done by amateurs and say, What's the difference? One of them is technique. Second is the setup. And third, this is the intangible is that the pros know when not to move, when they feel heat, or they see something that just doesn't sit right with them. They scrubbed the play, and live to fight another day. So a lot of the great great casino Cheats never really got caught in the casino. They got rented out. You know, it's funny, there's an old Arabic saying slept the alum, the Hello said, Is it name Mike Dean. The three of us can keep a secret just as long as I kill both of you.
Nick VinZant 2:37
So how often is this happening? Because in my mind, I feel like this would be like a rare thing. But how often is this happening every day in every casino? Well, not
George Joseph 2:47
every day in every casino but every day. One of the most interesting arrests that I was ever involved in was we caught a fellow sitting in a game with a big black coat and three buttons on his sweep. Well two of the three buttons were false. One of the buttons covered the face of a digital camera lens and the other covered the face of an infrared light. Infrared light is higher than the human eye can see. And they would run up excuse me a wire up his sleeve and under his armpit and down inside into a fanny pack contain four co lithium batteries. And on his back he had an walkie talkie. Understand he's taking pictures, high speed pictures from asleep but he can't he can't see them. So they had a radio on his back with an earpiece that came up to his ear. They cover the wiring with band aids so it looked like he cut himself shaving. Now if he goes to his body, and too often, it'll look too obvious to surveillance or before person so he doesn't control the batteries or the radio with his. With his hands. He controls him with his toes. You're on layers down his pants into his shoes, oversize boots, heavy wool socks, a toe switch and each sock. He raises his right toe turns the power off and onto the battery. Raise the left toe. He turns the earpiece off and on so he can hear his partner. Now he's taking high speed pictures from his buttonhole but he doesn't really know exactly where to aim. So in order to get the video off the game on his back, he's wearing a flat board, two gigahertz microwave plate that connects to a signal strength amplifier so he can shoot at greater distances and go through the concrete and steel of our casino. Their camera is running about Jeez 50 times is faster than a standard surveillance camera. So they could freeze the playing card in midair, they could freeze the shuffle, they could freeze the shuffle machine back in the day, and reconstruct it to see the order of the cards that are going to come out the next game, the next shoe. So this guy is all wired up on the game, and his partner is hiding a little truck in a parking lot. And inside is the high speed recorder, and a 48 inch microwave dish should have been through his back through the casino hit him and his back, tell him where to aim his arm. All this to pick off your whole cart, and pick off shuffles and so on so forth. Alright, so that's the technology they're doing today. Exactly the same thing. But with cell phones. So cell phones are now the biggest threat to table game security.
Nick VinZant 5:59
What are people doing with them, though? They just taking pictures with them or communicating through them? Or how does that
George Joseph 6:05
okay, so current counting is, for instance, is not illegal if you do it in your head. If you keep track, and you know what cards got put away, so that tells you what's left in the shoe. And if a lot of little cards got put away, that means there's a lot of big cards left in the shoe. And if there are big cards left in the shoe, or in the dealer's hand, the players have the advantage. Because of the extra pay off on a blank check, Nick, if you're betting 100 bucks, and the house gets a blackjack, you lose 100 bucks. But if you get exactly the same two cards, you win 150. So the face cards in the aces are more important for the player, not because they get them more often, they get more money when they get them. So most of the time it's flat. But if you notice extra little cards getting put away, and there's extra big cards left, you bet bigger,
Nick VinZant 7:06
you're just kind of stacking the odds a little bit in your favor, or you're
George Joseph 7:09
not stacking them, because you don't make it happen. You just recognize it when it does about 20% of the time, the cards fold just right where the players have the advantage over the house. Now, if you recognize that advantage in your head, that's perfectly legal. If you use a device, and over the years, we've caught them with two switches in each shoe. And you could enter 1248. And they would keep track of all the cards that got played. And then it would vibrate these pans on your thighs to tell you when to bet big or small. Whatever we catch him, strip them down, take the stuff off the body, exit them from the property sometimes aggressively. But if they went to the Gaming Commission, we'd have to give it back. They have devices as simple as a car key, a key fob, you press the door open button to keep track a little cards door closed button. For big cards, you press the trunk button and it vibrates. Long vibrations means it's good for you. Short vibrations means it's good for the house. Now they have cell phones that have playing card recognition. So I have the cell phone running, or have a camera connected to the cell phone. And all they have to do is look at the cards. I don't have to click anything. I don't have to say anything. I don't have to memorize, memorize anything, or keep track of Big and Little. The program does it for me. And then tells me when to bet big and little. So virtually every cheating scheme that was done in the past that involved a hidden camera or technology has now been adapted to be done with cell phones.
Nick VinZant 8:59
So it's kind of the same thing. Just new technology. Absolutely.
George Joseph 9:03
We caught a fella he was playing video poker machine, but he always had his hand under his armpit or under his boob. Like he was scratching himself. But turns out he was a retired rocket scientist. And he had reverse engineered the random number generator of the old video poker machine. So he would enter his cards that he saw Delta on the screen. And back then they would do 10 cards at once. Five that you could see. And five you couldn't see. Well, he was able to see the cards, but he wasn't supposed to see. Now skip ahead to today's gaming world and the Russians. Cheaters have hacked our slot machines, they would wear a cell phone on their body covered mesh and they would take a picture of 20 to 30 outcomes of a particular Our brand platform slot machine, they would live stream those decisions to make a computer. Now, you know, the slot machine computer has a very high speed process by which it goes from one decision to the next. It's interesting to know that as soon as you press that button, the outcome has done the real spin, just to make it look good, but it already knows where it's going. Now, there's a particular speed at which that processor runs, their Mega computer is running 100,000 times faster than our slot machine. And at first, it was incomprehensible to the casino world, to think that somebody could reverse engineer the algorithm of a slot machine. And I said, Well, you dumbass. Some human being wrote that program. So somebody knows exactly how that program goes from one decision to the next. And what are the hidden states, the hidden features, the difficult math, and now you're running at one speed, and I'm analyzing it 100,000 times faster. So they would put their 30 decisions into the, into their program running 100,000 times faster, and it'll go like this, you know, a catch up. Now, they couldn't make a jackpot occur, but they knew how far into the progression bigger payoffs were likely to happen. And then we get a vibration on their leg and have a quarter second to press the button to hopefully get that higher jackpot higher payoff. All right. So just like I told you about the old timers, something just didn't look right. They got caught in casinos, when the Audit Department would send a report to surveillance, saying this particular slot machine had a lot of coin out, money going out, but not enough money going in to justify. Now usually, that just meant that after they collected the money, today, Grandma hit a big jackpot. And so the par value wasn't where it's supposed to be yet. But they got caught in a couple of different joints around the country. Surveillance is watching a customer hover with his finger over the play button, and then just poke at it very quickly poke at it very quickly. And that's kind of what got them on to onto it, something just didn't look right in the play.
Nick VinZant 12:58
If you were to kind of look at it from in terms of like, okay, the casinos priorities with all the things that are going on. One is the lowest number five is the highest. Where on that scale, this kind of cheating fall, like how big of a priority is it for casinos, game
George Joseph 13:16
protection doesn't make any money, it saves money, it gives you a comfort level allows you to sleep at night, my job in many cases, is to give a comfort level. So that if we lose money, that the chairman of the board or the owner of the casino knows it wasn't a scam, it was an advantage play. It was on the square. Now, in the overall scheme, I will take hands per hour and customer service in the casino over game protection. Because if we don't have customers coming in, and we're not good to them when they get here, and we don't offer them what they want to see or experience in our casino, we won't have a hell of a lot of money to protect.
Nick VinZant 14:04
So on that scale of like one to five are we talking like it'd be like a two or
George Joseph 14:09
two or three. You know, there are some interesting schemes that have cost the casinos. In the last, say 10 or 12 years. There's a scheme where the players have a camera in their sleeve. And as they go to put the cut card in before a game. As a courtesy you'd let the customer cut the card while they run the credit card back and forth across the cards being held by the dealer. And and one of those passes, they riffle through the cards with their thumbnail and their hidden camera takes a picture. Now they have a sequence of cards coming out in the next shoe and they know the exact order they can predict the winner or loser in a baccarat game. They know what the hitter standard is Take insurance and blackjack and so on. At any rate, that's probably the maybe the biggest scheme that's happened since in the last 10 or 12 years, we estimate somewhere around 100 million worldwide. And anytime you estimate based on on historic losses, you can, you can assume two or three times that much based on losses that were not attributed to that, or you didn't report them, or you just need didn't even know that it happened to you basically, the other big, there was a big controversy in the gaming world. Based on a fella named Phil Ivey,
Nick VinZant 15:43
the name is familiar poker player, right?
George Joseph 15:46
He's arguably the greatest money poker player, whoever lived will fill a one $12 million in a casino in London, and 9.6 million at the Borgata in Atlantic City in both casinos accused of cheating in the form of edge edge sorting. And the whole thing revolves around playing cards that get printed properly, but they get cut off center a little bit. So if you take any deck of cards, and look at the edge, edge diamonds, or edge border or edge pattern on the card, you will find 60 to 70% of the decks are irregular. And that means nothing. Because if you shuffle the cards properly, spin half of them and wash properly. They can't be taken advantage of. But imagine this make it a simple thing. Let's suppose that we sat down on a on a game, and we spun all the aces and faces in one direction and kept all the little cards in the opposite direction. All that means is in the next hand to play, or the next. Once we've done enough cards, we can look at the dealer's hand and determine with fair accuracy. Do we have high cards or low cards? It doesn't tell us the exact card. It just tells us a group. Well, that's all Phil Ivey actually fell out. He didn't do anything. The girl he was with asked for a particular brand of cards and a particular color. So she knew in advance of these cards were Miss cut. Then she said, I'd like to have a hand shuffle, no machine shop. I mean, no, sorry. No hands shuffle, just a machine shuffle, ordering hands shuffles you wash the cards, that would mess up the pattern, but a machine shuffle. They don't wash him, he just put them into machine. Then she wanted a Mandarin speaking dealer, so she could understand each other. Then she said when you deal the cards before you turn them over, show us each card. And it sounded quirky. But you know, the Asian Asian customers are very the best customers in the world. But they're also superstitious, he acquiesced. They showed him each card. Well, every time she showed him, and they put him back facedown. And then she'd point at the card and go like this and say turn that carryover long lies. And then if she went like this, she said her neck guard over sideways. what she was doing in the first shoe was turning all the nines in the eights and sevens in one direction, and leaving all the weak cards in the opposite. So during the first she will play Phil loss 400,000 or so that's what his attorney told me. During the during the next year we'll play they look at the opening in the shoe. And if it hadn't big diamond, it was a good card. They bid on the player. The player side always got the for boys gets the first card. If it was anything else. They'd been on the bank side because the player was going to get a weak card. So they didn't know the exact card. It's just like me saying to you, Nick, you'd have an advantage by knowing it's a good card. See, but the player if it's a weak card, you bet the bank because the player is going to get a weak card. The mathematicians estimated at about a six or 7% overall advantage. Well in two days of play. He won $12 million in in London.
Nick VinZant 19:49
So they were just looking at the way the cards were cut. And they could get an idea of what the cards were based on the way that the cards were cut when they were manufactured.
George Joseph 19:58
Exactly. That's just some goes that you're supposed to have perfect half Nymans, all around every edge. That's what's supposed to happen. But because they get cut so fast, then you get decks that have a little teeny diamond on one edge, which means the bigger other side of they have bigger diamonds. So that's what they're looking for. They call it registration variance. And it creates an irregular border.
Nick VinZant 20:26
When you look at people like when you look at cheating in casinos, is this usually like just one person or a couple of people doing this? And then they go all over the place doing it are these like really organized networks?
George Joseph 20:39
You get it on the head, there's a combination of both. I mean, look at all the internet play that that Pacman Jones got for adding to a bet they call it capping. All right, he knew he had a winner, he added to his winning bet to try to get more money. Okay, that's a ridiculously so simple and stupid thing to do, especially if you got a camera over your head, your dumb ass. Okay, so that's the amateur, the professionals that attempt those sorts of things. They may mark the cards, for instance, we had a crew who had been arrested over two dozen times in the States. And they've been playing a face up game cards were face up. And so the players would not be able to touch the cards, but they would bet minimum bats and always through a tip to the dealer. And when the dealer would take the tip, a customer would take a chip, and he press on the face up face cards, the 10s and 10s and face cards, and it would create a bump on the back of the card. All right, well, they did it for minimum bets. Five bucks. If the floor person came by they stopped. Once they marked up a shoe, they would leave. And two or three hours later, their partners would show up. They wouldn't bet 500 or 1000 Maximum bets, they bet 50 100. And they win five or 6000. They just knew they didn't know every card they knew was a face card or not. If you're gonna get a face card, you bet big. If there's a face card in the hole, you take insurance. If the face card is coming out, it would break your hand you don't take it. So they're an organized crew. And they got the they targeted the entire gaming world. Full shuffled scheme, guys, the Tran organization were indicted in San Diego on 28 counts, well 28 counts that they could prove. There were dozens and dozens more where they knew they had hit the casino, but did not have enough video, or overkill to put it in into the indictment. And they went for years. And the estimate similar on 12 or 15 million. And in some cases, we've even had customers come to us and said, Hey, Nick, just put extra money on his bet. Can I do that too. And so they get wrapped it up one of the funniest ones, the dealers would take their tips, they have to tap the bankroll to make a sound to let the floor person know that they were getting a tip and they put it in their top pocket. And then when they were done, they have to take it and go to a big box in the middle of the pit and put all the tips into that box. And collectively the dealers would pull that money and share equally. So a casino executive goes to the shirt maker one day to have a shirt made and they're talking back and forth what casino Oh, I'm over at the MGM or whatever the hell the casino was. Oh, hey, do you want one of those special pockets we talking about? Is that pocket we got that slide in it. The kid went to the shirt maker had to make a special pocket that if you put money in, it would slide down into his underwear at first then if he would just press it like this, like Velcro would seal it. So the last few tips would go in the pocket. He could turn it inside out and show me a few tips going into the box the rest of them were down in in his underwear he were actually wear pantyhose so they wouldn't fall through and fall on the floor. And he got rid of it up by the tailor
Nick VinZant 24:28
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Sure. easiest game to cheat at
George Joseph 24:33
the vast majority of cheating that I see now is being done in player clubs in the slots where people are stealing free play or getting working in concert with an inside person to load up a playing customer card with extra for free play. Okay, that's a whole separate issue that's the slots baccarat depending on on who you Get two is the big game for organized cheaters simply because so much money can be risked on so few cards.
Nick VinZant 25:11
If you can track the cards, there's a big payout, a big
George Joseph 25:15
payout. here's the here's the thing. If you and I Nick conspired to steal one hand of blackjack, we're gonna win one bet. But with the same number of cards, we've still a baccarat hand. That could be seven bets, because everybody can bet on the same cards, and in some cases, 14 bets. And if some of the casinos in Southern California allow back betting over the shoulder betting, you can have 42 bets on the on the same number of cards. So baccarat has that advantage for the cheaters or the advantage play. Take a simple example. If you knew the first card and a blackjack game was an ace, you have a big advantage 52% But you're the only one is going to get that ace, the first customer is going to get the first card. What if in Baccarat, you knew the first card was a nine? That means the player side is going to get the most powerful card in Baccarat. Well, not only you but everybody else on the table can bet the bank. They can everybody can move back and forth between player and bank. So that's why baccarat has been the game of choice for the big cheaters because so much money is risked on so few cards.
Nick VinZant 26:35
Which one is the which one's the hardest one to cheat that?
George Joseph 26:40
Well, that's a tough question hard. It's not hard, hard to cheat at any game. If you're willing to put the dedication and some of the great thieves I knew they worked a little differently. In the old days, there was a great old crew of dice cheaters fellow has been dead for years, I can mention his name Glenn Grayson. And grant Glen had a crew of dice cheaters. And one of the ways they work and they were very good. And they had all the guts in the world. And they knew when to move when not to move. But one of the ways they they pulled off a scheme. It was one step short of pulling a gun, then walk up to the shift boss on duty that night. And they say you know who we are, right? Well, you're in for 15%. And he'd nod his head and you think he'd leave the casino and go right there and standby in the craps table. And you'd see if a dealer saw anybody do a move, slide the dice, put a cube down, add to a bet. Whatever the hell they were doing. If they looked up kind of and they saw the boss just sitting like this, staring at them. They knew to keep their mouth shut. Okay, so any game can be cheated. That
Nick VinZant 27:53
somewhat couple of the questions kind of revolve around that topic is like what was the most complex one you ever saw were like, wow, that was That was smart.
George Joseph 28:02
The camera of the sleeve things pretty intricate because they lasted over seven years that I know of. And it was because they stayed small. They would only win 1000 or 1500 bucks. And in a casino the size of Belize or MGM one of those big joints that isn't even hit the hit sheet. Nobody even pays attention to it. When they went when they stole 90,000 And a part of one shoe and baccarat at the Gold Coast. 60,000 at the frontier. That's when people start calling me badly. So we got 10 joints go see if you can find out what's going on. I analyzed their video and realized it was a camera. I do what I do. The cops do what they do. It took four months, but we snatched them up in Atlantic City. So and they stayed small. And they were smart. They had different collectors. You know, if the same guy keeps speaking you for 1000 or 1500 at a time over and over and over again. It just doesn't look right. So they would burn and churn their collectors. So let's suppose Nikki, you're the collector. And I'm a guy with the whole wired up with the devices. You don't know me, you don't know that I have what I have on my body. You don't know anything about any truck in a parking lot. All you know is if I give you a signal, you do one thing. If I give you another signal, you do something else. If I give you the cut sign that means scrub the plane get up and leave. So the real professional crews have lasted an awful long time. So the real smart crews burn and churn their collectors.
Nick VinZant 29:53
Was there ever one that you couldn't figure out how they were doing it?
George Joseph 29:56
years ago? I was looking at a on what I know, was marked card play, I didn't get a chance to see the actual playing cards, but nothing in the play suggested to me how they actually had marked the cards. Now you can mark cards, high and low, just you know good from bad. You can mark individual groups, high, medium and low, you can mark by absolute value. So I know an ace from a king from a queen from a jack, and so on. Well, it seemed to me watching the play, that these fellas knew the absolute value of every card. I'll swear to this day, when I showed the video on a training class, there's no way you can dispute the fact they know the whole card. They know the next card coming. It doesn't mean they win every hand. But the beat this one joined for a buck 80 180,000. All right. But I never got to see the cards. So was an inside job? I don't know, did they mark them in advance? And then the other guys came in and played it? I don't know. So those are the ones that bother me. Because even 10 or 15 years later, I find myself studying the film and saying what should what that help? How do they? How do they know that guard? Yeah.
Nick VinZant 31:27
Do you think it'll change in the future? Do you think that anything lies ahead in the future, there's like, Okay, this is going to end it or make it much worse.
George Joseph 31:36
You know, I say, I start off my mark cart training class by saying the worst Mark card in the world, and the best Mark card in the world do exactly the same thing. They just tell you what the front of the cart is, before you make a decision. So the technology, no doubt, has changed drastically. And it's going to make it easier. It's going to make it more intriguing for the bad guys. And more difficult in some cases. But if you saw Mark Car Play, from the old days, and Mark car play from the New Days, it still looks like Mark current play. The method, the modus operandi, how did they do it has changed. And that's going to keep changing based on technology. I mean, look at the casinos that have been targeted when you get a phone call. And the kid in the cage thinks he's talking to the owner. And the owner says, put a million and a half dollars in a bag and bring it to some guy in a parking lot. And it's been going on casinos all over the country all over the world.
Nick VinZant 32:44
Waits for there has been some scams where somebody would just pretend to be like a boss and tell somebody else meet me in the parking lot with money.
George Joseph 32:51
Absolutely. One of the big casinos on the street in downtown Las Vegas, targeted for a million and a half joint and kin west coast of michigan 700,000. When it comes to an accounting thing, they've changed, they've had vendors call and change your bank routing number. And they don't realize I got your bank information. So payments that should have gone to your electrical company are not coming to me. And I snatch that money up and run
Nick VinZant 33:24
to casinos cheap.
George Joseph 33:27
That's a great question. It really is. Because used to bother me. Well, first of all, we don't cheat customers. We just have a built in niche. Number two, you get snatched up for stealing my money. And then you and then you you whine about getting slapped around a little and thrown out. Why don't you just not steal my money? In 1931 on the open legal gaming in Nevada, there were six sides on the dice 38 numbers on a wheel 52 cards in the deck balanced. Skip ahead 90 years, it's exactly the same thing. Except for six to five blackjack and certain side bets on the games. So the casino has the same mathematic rate of win that they've had for 100 years. So in selected areas. Small joints. Yeah. But you're you're a joint MGM you got 50 joints around the country. You're going to take a chat shot of losing gaming licenses in all 50 jurisdictions or dozen jurisdictions to try to cheat on a game and then and then hope that everybody keeps their mouth shut. The intangible always goes back to people brag. People get drunk and stupid. People shoot their mouths off. People use it to get out of jail free. That's going to be the one thing that thieves can't change. I
Nick VinZant 35:00
want to thank George so much for joining us if you want to connect with him, we have linked to him on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included his information in the episode description. If you want to see more of how some of these cheating techniques are done. The YouTube version of this episode will be live on February 15. At 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of the show. Do you feel like an adult? Yes,
John Shull 35:36
you do. I do feel like an adult. Absolutely.
Nick VinZant 35:42
Oh, I feel nothing like an adult. I feel like a child masquerading as an adult.
John Shull 35:48
What's supposed to make me feel like an adult? And I guess I
Nick VinZant 35:51
don't know, just like, like, because I don't feel like I know what I'm doing. Like, I still feel like a little kid just trying to like get through life.
John Shull 36:01
I mean, there's moments of my life where I go back to being an eight year old, I think, or have feelings like that. But on an everyday basis, no, man, when you roll out of bed and it hurts, you're like I'm an adult, these bones have lived some things.
Nick VinZant 36:18
Oh, like, I feel physically older. But I don't feel like a mentally like I'm an adult at all.
John Shull 36:24
I mean, your hairline hasn't changed since you were seven. But that's that's fine. And
Nick VinZant 36:29
according to our audience, I pulled the audience 60% of people who are adults say that they say that? No, they don't feel like an adult. Only 35% of people said they actually feel like an adult. Maybe you're just a grumpy old man.
John Shull 36:45
I think I think I know plenty of angry old men. I would not classify me as one of them. You are
Nick VinZant 36:52
an old soul, though. Like, I feel like if you could pick a timeframe to live in, you would live in like the 1940s.
John Shull 36:57
I mean, simpler is better. I appreciate. I appreciate investing time in something, and getting to know everything about something, which is whether it's a record, or a book or making a meal. As we're you know, nowadays everything is, you know, instant gratification. Right? You don't have any of that. So yes, I guess I would classify myself as an old soul. Oh, I'd
Nick VinZant 37:23
much rather live in the future. I feel like we're at this awkward stage right now, where like technology is pretty helpful. But it's not like super helpful yet. I wish I lived another 100 years in the future.
John Shull 37:36
I may regret saying this, as I do most things that I opened my mouth with on this podcast. But I don't know if I ever want to see the first actual robot like that does human things and is sold commercially?
Nick VinZant 37:52
Oh, I don't really want to see that either. To be honest with you, I think the whole going down the road of AI and all that kind of stuff is really messing with something that maybe we shouldn't be messing with. I think that could be fundamental changes in society. But I absolutely want my limbs to be able to be replaced with robotic stuff. I want to be 80 years old with like, 20 year old robot knees.
John Shull 38:14
Here's the thing, though, is kind of what kind of the question at its at its core, I feel they can replace the stuff that doesn't truly age, right? Like you can replace an arm and leg. But you can't replace your heart. I don't I don't want to see that. Man. If my arm goes, just let it go. Like I don't want a robot arm when I'm 80 Oh,
Nick VinZant 38:36
I absolutely want robot arms. Why wouldn't you want robot body parts? I get what you're saying in the sense of like, look, when my heart goes when my lung goes. It's time for me to go. I'm okay with that. And I agree with you. But I absolutely want robot arms and body parts. Like I want to be able to be still be doing stuff.
John Shull 38:54
What what robot part would you want the most? Oh,
Nick VinZant 38:58
legs. Okay. Yeah, dude, I'm not going there. I'm not gonna use it at that age anyway. But I absolutely want robot legs.
John Shull 39:09
Yeah, I mean, obviously, they're probably most useful, but are useful. I don't know. I don't know how I feel about it. But yes, getting back to the question. Yes, I do feel like an adult. I'm
Nick VinZant 39:20
going to go down the exact list of things that I want to be replaced with robotics. Number one is going to be my legs. I feel like my legs and specifically my knees and my hips. I want to be replaced by robots. Number two is going to be my back. Number three is going to be my shoulder. Number four is going to be my arms. Number five is going to be my neck. I feel like that's the way of things that are going to go.
John Shull 39:40
And that is why you should feel like an adult because everything you just mentioned, I assume bothers you or nags you currently Correct? No. Oh, okay. All right. Well, then, you still sounded like an old man right there. I started going after I get Like after I do shoulders now our chest her back.
Nick VinZant 40:02
Oh my God, here comes the gym.
John Shull 40:05
I put on a heating pad.
Nick VinZant 40:07
Oh my god.
John Shull 40:08
My shoulder just hurts so bad like it just I probably should go get it checked out. But it just hurts so bad. I feel like such an old man.
Nick VinZant 40:18
Yeah, dude, that's that's what's gonna happen right like when you don't really exercise then all of a sudden you're fucking Joe something somebody I just that's the problem is now I can't keep up like I don't even know who the cool workout people do insults you with? Like I say Arnold Schwarzenegger anymore like
John Shull 40:39
you know I was in my basement the other day
Nick VinZant 40:41
Oh God, what was the weather like? I'm gonna it's gonna have a checklist and I'm just gonna go Dean for every time that you bring up the weather your basement or you go into the gym?
John Shull 40:53
I would I don't know how I would feel if somebody made that T shirt have that that would be hilarious. Like shows episode checklist,
Nick VinZant 41:00
Episode checklist. I think that you should go ding whenever somebody brings up the weather in conversation. Somebody should just be like, dang,
John Shull 41:08
it's unseasonably warm here.
Nick VinZant 41:12
Listen, I'm not talking about the weather.
John Shull 41:17
We're all men. What do you what do you old men talk about besides scorned lovers, alcohol and the weather?
Nick VinZant 41:24
Oh, I don't bring up scorned lovers at all. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. We are both married man who had been married for quite some time. You've Have you ever brought up an ex girlfriend to your wife?
John Shull 41:36
Yeah, I mean, all. When we first started dating, I mean, probably within the I mean, I don't specifically remember a time recently, but probably within the last couple of months. I mean, it's, it's not like you and you and I met our wives at an older age. Maybe not that old but older. So like you knew, you know, you had fires? Yeah, I mean, you had prior things. It's not like it's, you know, oh,
Nick VinZant 42:06
maybe this is a me and my wife thing. I don't know, I had never brought up a single x ever, in her presence, or talked about in any form or capacity ever, at all. So
John Shull 42:21
we sit there and say, you know, what was the best time sex wise that you had? Besides me? It's not like anything like that. But you know, you have memories, life memories, things like that. I mean, it gets brought up from time to time and you
Nick VinZant 42:35
bring that up, I would never bring that up.
John Shull 42:39
Alright, let's get some shoutouts Adam Borland or Borland is probably boring it's probably not
Nick VinZant 42:44
Borland not bored land, I would assume more land.
John Shull 42:47
How? Isaac Duda Sebastian plug Dario also shared that that's how you say that same. Christelle pz Harrison Gerbert. Max Briscoe grant hey good. I like a grant the grant is you know grant is not a name that you have very often but it's yeah. Can
Nick VinZant 43:11
be more than I can deal with more maxes too
John Shull 43:15
I prefer Maxine actually. I like Maxine that's like a never know what you're getting with a Maxine.
Nick VinZant 43:23
Oh, I think I know exactly what you're getting. You're getting a talking to you're getting you're gonna hear some some complainings of somebody's name, Maxine.
John Shull 43:32
All right, let's wrap this up. Travis Gilroy, Rosa Jackson, Jake Simons, and Zach Williams. Congratulations. Congratulations. Alright, so we're just gonna keep the train rolling here. Picked out 10 random ass things. We'll see what Nick responds everybody reacts to these with we'll start off here with the water buffalo
Nick VinZant 44:03
No, I don't care about the water buffalo. It just doesn't do anything for me. Like I get it. It looks a little bit different and has those like horns that kind of swooped around a little bit, but I don't care about a water buffalo. I don't genuinely care about any kind of animals like that.
John Shull 44:18
I'm right there with you. I don't even know what how or what they contribute to society are a couple of Super Bowl related things because obviously this is the episode after the Super Bowl. Well, let's just start off with the obvious one here. Taylor Swift
Nick VinZant 44:35
didn't watch the Super Bowl at all. Did not watch the Super Bowl except for now listen, I think that other men will agree with me especially gambling men. I'm not a gambler, but I've known many a gambler in my life. So we watched the Super Bowl. We put it on for maybe 45 seconds to a minute. Turn it on. San Francisco was down We wanted San Francisco to win. Turn it on San Francisco was down. San Francisco scored. When this happened, the volume on the TV was off. Now my wife said, can you turn it up? I said, No, we can't turn it up. They just scored when the volume was down. If we turn it up, then it could throw off the momentum. She was like, That's dumb. That's stupid. Just turn it up. So we turned on the volume. What do you think happens the very next second, they go to kick the extra field gold gets blocked. I don't think that's a coincidence.
John Shull 45:37
You're right, you not turning up the volume, or turning down the volume is what led to the 40 Niners blowing the lead for sure.
Nick VinZant 45:46
Exactly. We jinxed him. And I told her right after that, and I was like, Look, that's why you don't turn the volume on. You don't make a change. When you're hitting Well, you don't suddenly decide that you're going to change clothing or change your underwear or go to the other side of the batter's box. You stick with it. We call it a game.
John Shull 46:07
The next one should be fun here. Since you didn't watch a lick. Usher
Nick VinZant 46:11
didn't see it. The video overall I like Usher. I prefer to call them Hirscher did ludicrous come out?
John Shull 46:18
He did Yes. And these gigantic shoes, big ass shoes that not sure why he wore them? It was pushing that for some reason. fashion statement. I'm not.
Nick VinZant 46:29
There's gotta be something coming up. Like he's gonna launch a boot brand or something like that. Like I saw some other thing on the Grammys. And like Beyonce was dressed like a cowboy. Like why is she dressed like that? She looks ridiculous. And then she puts out like a country themed. Oh, okay, now I get it.
John Shull 46:43
Oh boy. Ah, all right. Aluminum water bottles.
Nick VinZant 46:49
What's the deal with water bottles? What is this thing with water bottles that everybody's going after water bottles. Like it's something great when I was a kid. You had like one three second drink of water a day. And that was all you needed. Now. We've got to be like, hydrated nonstop for some reason.
John Shull 47:07
I mean, I think because it's it's what has been pushed into our brains that you you know, real health and fitness depends on how hydrated you are.
Nick VinZant 47:16
Oh, hydration has become like the cure for everything. Like well, did you have water and I got I never had it before.
John Shull 47:25
I mean, there's lots of people who just drink beer, who are just fine and healthy, in that, you know, didn't have a lick of water. But let's just all start drinking water, I guess. building blocks of life. All right, Patrick mahomes
Nick VinZant 47:41
Ever since I heard somebody compare him to Kermit the Frog, I can't unsee it. And all I think of is Kermit the Frog. Seems to be a great quarterback. I don't really know that much about those things. Seems like it'd be a nice guy. Good for him this
John Shull 47:53
system quarterback just like Brady was. Alright. What is the what what is a flood tog?
Nick VinZant 48:00
Oh, a flu talk. A flu talk is the thing that Red Bull does where they have like a platform. They try to make fake planes. And then they push it off the platform and see who goes as far as they can. My family and I have started to do this thing. My wife and I partake and things the Washington legally allows. And we sit there and we watch different things on YouTube with our two children on Sunday. He needs snacks, and it's fantastic. And we've been watching different sports. We watched ski ballet with you. You haven't seen ski ballet. I don't think I've ever laughed that hard in my entire life. We've also watched competitive dodgeball, which was incredible. We watched breakdancing we watched gymnastics, tumbling, and we watched food talk. So we watch a new thing to try to expose our children to new and diverse things that maybe they would enjoy when they become adults.
John Shull 48:49
Flu tog that's that's definitely just rolls off the tongue there, doesn't it?
Nick VinZant 48:54
I mean something I don't know what it means, but it hasn't meaning.
John Shull 48:57
Probably put your fake airplane off of fake log. I thought it was funny. All right. Well, that's
Nick VinZant 49:08
why that's why I purposely didn't laugh at all this this just didn't leave you completely hanging.
John Shull 49:14
Did you sap in to see that the next couple of days? I mean, if you didn't watch any Superbowl commercials, or it's not gonna matter. The done kings.
Nick VinZant 49:25
No, I this is the thing man is like once something becomes popular, I refuse to be associated with it so that I don't have to talk to people about
John Shull 49:35
that you're killing me, Smalls. We're absolutely I'm fine with not conforming to the social norm. But that commercial which was aired during the Super Bowl, which was for Dunkin Donuts was basically Tom Brady, Ben Affleck and Matt Damon in a boy band called the gun kings. And it's hilarious and now I don't know if they will still have this for sale on their website but you could like buy the tracksuits on Dunkin Donuts website.
Nick VinZant 50:07
I did see something about this and to take this in a bad direction. I also saw that Dunkin Donuts is one of the largest, I think has more employees on food stamps than any other company. Maybe they should invest that money in their workers. Instead of paying Tom Brady to do stuff. How'd you like that answer?
John Shull 50:28
I mean, that's why we do this. I guess. I did. Alright, well, let's shift gears, copper copper mugs.
Nick VinZant 50:35
Oh, wasn't that a big trend a little while ago, I was a big trend. And I actually bought my wife, two copper mugs, maybe even four copper mugs, which were much more expensive than they thought that they were going to be because you think a copper mug is gonna be like $5 but it's like 40 bucks. And I don't think she ever used them.
John Shull 50:51
Now if that was me, you would be lambasted me for what do you need for copper mugs?
Nick VinZant 50:56
Well, they came in and said she really wanted him was for a birthday present. And besides, you would go out there, you would already have four copper mugs, but I don't like this particular color of copper. So I'm gonna go ahead and get another four copper mugs. And then you would end up having like 24 copper mugs that you weren't using it all.
John Shull 51:12
See how many how many do I have hanging? I have 10 Hanging up right here
Nick VinZant 51:16
you have 10 cars. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You don't buy one useless thing. You buy seven useless things.
John Shull 51:24
They come in handy. They're good for Moscow Mules.
Nick VinZant 51:29
What percentage of things that you buy? Would you say that you actually use?
John Shull 51:33
Oh, 90 to 100%. Really?
Nick VinZant 51:37
No, no, no, no, no, no, not use once or twice? What percentage of things that you buy? Would you say you regularly use?
John Shull 51:47
I've been I'm still gonna say 70 to 80%. I mean, I don't I don't buy things I don't usually buy like you know things for myself for like leisure purposes.
Nick VinZant 51:59
I would say that's probably number is probably about right then about 20 to 30% of stuff that people buy. They really don't use it very much.
John Shull 52:08
I mean, if I do buy something like a throwaway item or something, it usually gets thrown away pretty fast. So I
Nick VinZant 52:13
have a $500 Inflatable raft that I've used three times good good for you actually is a kayak now that I think about it technically. I don't know what the difference between a kayak canoe and a raft is but whatever.
John Shull 52:31
I don't actually know the difference between the three of those either probably how many people you can see, maybe a
Nick VinZant 52:37
kayak I think you can like sit in and like kind of comes around you and a canoe is like well, this thing is technically a kayak. Maybe a canoe is just bigger. Okay, now I'm gonna have to look this up. Dammit. Oh, when I close that thing. Okay. Do you have any any more? Yeah, beach ball. Oh, just awesome. I love beach balls. Man. That's a great time. beach balls, dodge balls and those kinds of softer balls. Softer balls don't get used nearly enough as they should. We're too focused on hard balls and we should be really playing with soft balls
John Shull 53:13
all right. Unit brows.
Nick VinZant 53:16
Hilarious. Every time. Every time I see a unibrow I
John Shull 53:20
laugh but do you feel bad for people who think that that is like the regular and fashionable?
Nick VinZant 53:29
I don't think that anybody thinks that it's fashionable. I think that there's one or two like professional athletes where it's really bad so they've made it like their look, but I don't think that anybody thinks that that is fashionable. I think everybody tries to control that.
John Shull 53:43
All right, last one here, Jelly Roll.
Nick VinZant 53:45
The the what is it? Like? This? The
John Shull 53:51
singer jelly. It's
Nick VinZant 53:52
somebody that like I have seen this person but every time I've seen it I've just been like I'm not getting into that. I watched pausable deniability. I don't know any of the songs. I don't know. I bet I've heard that they must have some story they got really popular. But like I don't like now I don't have not invested my time in that like I'm not gonna start watching that show.
John Shull 54:14
It's not it's a man who says serve jail time. Yeah, got out and as is reformed now and has the voice of an angel.
Nick VinZant 54:23
Oh
John Shull 54:25
COVID Alright, what's the difference between a raft kayak and flood tog?
Nick VinZant 54:30
Actually, I stopped looking at it. It looked like too long of an answer for me to go ahead and look at it looked like one of those answers were after you read it. They you still don't know what the difference is.
John Shull 54:40
All right. Well, there we was. Just skip to the best.
Nick VinZant 54:42
Okay. All right. So our top five is top five messy foods to eat. What's your number five.
John Shull 54:52
So are we basing this upon how many stains I have on my clothes from these things? Or how messy they are? The moment because it's kind of a different atmosphere, but I'll try to blend them as well as I can.
Nick VinZant 55:06
I'm okay you asked my what my asking for my opinion, um, what we're doing and then just continue to go straight into what you were doing is if the answer and matter not of whatsoever, so why bother? Yeah, what are we doing here while I'm doing this? Oh no, I'm just dude you do do you man do you big player doing
John Shull 55:22
I'm just doing it I learned from the best man. Anyway, so my number five I mean this has to be on the list somewhere. So I've soup.
Nick VinZant 55:32
I don't have any problems eating soup. I don't find soup to be a difficult food to eat to be honest with you. Just don't overfill the spoon. There you go.
John Shull 55:41
It's funny herbal soup, milk. Any of those type of liquids that you put on a spoon? are just they're just messy. They're terrible.
Nick VinZant 55:50
I really don't have any problem with them. I don't know what you're doing it you get trying to get like, man, don't fill it all the way up. Like just go three quarters and I don't think that you'll have this. This problem.
John Shull 56:04
I love filling it all the way up.
Nick VinZant 56:08
My number five is corn on the cob. I always had not not corn on the cob. Not because it's really a messy food to eat like in terms of gets all over your your hands, but because it just gets in your tea.
John Shull 56:21
Yeah, I mean, that's that's fair. I mean, I don't consider that messy. I'm definitely going with more like physical.
Nick VinZant 56:30
I consider. Yeah, for me, it's the teeth like I consider corn on the cob for the teeth factor and like I gotta get this out of my teeth now.
John Shull 56:40
My number for a powdered donuts. Oh,
Nick VinZant 56:42
yeah. Yeah, there's no way you're coming out of that clean.
John Shull 56:47
I mean, you look like you either jerked off. Casper or you just did you know a line of coke? I'm not sure. I don't
Nick VinZant 56:56
know about jerking off Casper. I don't know what kind of doughnuts you're eaten that you would look like that. But I mean, I understand having some sugar on. Yeah, I don't know. You.
John Shull 57:07
So the first thing I thought of right? I don't know
Nick VinZant 57:08
if it makes sense. My number four is a mango. It's basically impossible to not come out with a sticky mess if you're trying to like peel and eat a mango.
John Shull 57:22
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's, that's fair. I thought about putting an orange on my list. But I didn't. But that would probably be the closest thing to a fruit I'd have on here. I
Nick VinZant 57:32
don't have any difficulty with an orange or an orange there was actually remember that. Apparently, I am very good at peeling things. Because I remember a time in which John and I used to work together and I remember sitting across from him watching him struggle to peel an orange. And he somehow had gotten it into literally like 20 to 30 pieces. I was like, What are you doing? Like you probably do not peel oranges. Well, that's
John Shull 58:00
I actually bought a like a little tool that helps me heal them properly. I can't do it, man.
Nick VinZant 58:08
Do you bring that out in public? You can't. You can't like Yeah,
John Shull 58:12
I mean, I I probably have an orange every other day. So I mean, I actually I have I have two I have one in my desk drawer and wanted one at home.
Nick VinZant 58:25
So you can't do that stuff right there. Like there is no way for me as a person that I could see somebody with like a tool that helped them peel oranges and not think that they were an idiot.
John Shull 58:39
I mean, it's been great for me so I it helps. I'll tell you that it's not like it's you know, it's not like it's been a detriment. I can tell you that. Okay. All right. My number three I have really can be any kind of like meat pie, but I went with sloppy Joe's specifically.
Nick VinZant 58:57
I thought about putting sloppy Joe's on the list, but I don't have not really had that many struggles with sloppy Joe's. I can't think of a time that I'd be like Damn these sloppy Joe's. Oh,
John Shull 59:08
it's they're terrible. It's yeah, unless you have an oversized like onion rollers something you put them on and then when you go to bite, they come out one end. It's just It's terrible. Waste
Nick VinZant 59:20
so but also I grew up in a city where we had this restaurant called new way that specialized in like sloppy joes. So maybe I had more experience from a younger age eating sloppy joes in a proper manner.
John Shull 59:35
Maybe we should have a sloppy joe professional eater on or somebody I don't know if there is probably not there as to me though.
Nick VinZant 59:42
My number three is smores that's gonna be a gooey mess.
John Shull 59:46
Yeah, that's that's a good one. S'mores are good. I just I don't recall the last time I had s'mores.
Nick VinZant 59:52
No, not a very popular thing. It's one of those things is you're always like, Oh, I can make some more is a bit like is kind of a pain in the ass. It's a lot like too much work
John Shull 1:00:04
for the robots. Do I really want to? Is it worth it? Yeah, no, no, no my number two is basically anything with peanut butter.
Nick VinZant 1:00:17
How is peanut butter messy? Peanut butter is easy. It sticks to itself. Oh, it's
John Shull 1:00:22
terrible. I always get it everywhere. Like if you want me to make you a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It's it looks like a four year old made it. It's ridiculous.
Nick VinZant 1:00:32
Here's the thing, right? Like before you were talking about how you feel like an adult. But yet you struggled with peanut butter jelly sandwiches and peeling oranges.
John Shull 1:00:45
It doesn't mean that I'm coordinated.
Nick VinZant 1:00:47
Do you but you're not uncoordinated? I've seen you play sports. I wouldn't say that. You are uncoordinated person.
John Shull 1:00:56
I will appreciate that. I don't know. I don't know why. I mean, it just it's anything with peanut butter. Even when I try to make like peanut butter curry or something. I get it all over the place. Or I get it on me and then it gets it's you know, it's just it's a fucking nightmare. Okay, that's all I got to say.
Nick VinZant 1:01:12
I mean, it's a little hard to get off a spoon. What do you use? Maybe you're using the wrong tools. If you're gonna make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for your kids. What utensil? Are you using?
John Shull 1:01:23
a butter knife.
Nick VinZant 1:01:24
Oh, use a spoon. It's way easier
John Shull 1:01:29
to spread it on the bread. Yeah, you
Nick VinZant 1:01:32
just dig it out. Put it there. Spread it on the side. It's not like it's not really difficult. It's just a flat surface. Like all you need is a flat surface to spread something a spoon has a reasonably flat surface on it. It's not like, Oh, I'll never be able to do it.
John Shull 1:01:48
Oh, well. I bought myself a peanut butter and jelly tool.
Nick VinZant 1:01:54
I'm surprised. I bet you would too. Do you? Do you have I do have something that cuts? Do you have something that cuts the crust off of sandwiches?
John Shull 1:02:03
Yes, but not specific. Not? No, no, hold on, hold on. Not specifically the shapes. So like, I can cut the sandwiches in the shapes. It's not necessarily but don't you just mash the bread? No, man cuz I got delicate fingers, man. Obviously
Nick VinZant 1:02:22
not you can't peel an orange.
John Shull 1:02:26
Oranges are tough. And everyone out there that's listening to this is like yeah, Schultz kind of right or just do suck to peel.
Nick VinZant 1:02:31
I don't have any difficulty peeling an orange. Maybe I'm alone on this. But I also remember we're going through a hard boiled egg kick at my house. And I watched my wife tried to peel a hard boiled egg and like she couldn't do it. And I was just like this. All you gotta do is like this.
John Shull 1:02:47
Those are tough, especially if you boil them you know, and you don't honor there's some trick or something to do. But if you don't do it, you're going to be pilling it piece by piece I feel for your wife,
Nick VinZant 1:02:57
I can do the whole thing reliably in three pieces. Saw a lot of times in just one big one.
John Shull 1:03:08
What's your number two?
Nick VinZant 1:03:09
My number two is actually spaghetti. Because it's that last like where you feel like that sauce is gonna get all over you.
John Shull 1:03:19
I you know I actually don't recall a time where I've had issues with with spaghetti or noodles. But
Nick VinZant 1:03:28
do you take the whole noodle though? You take the whole noodle in your mouth? Are you trying to like No, I only one Little Noodles each out. You cut it up a little bit? No,
John Shull 1:03:36
I don't cut my noodles up. I like to take it long and slimy.
Nick VinZant 1:03:44
Now he's I mean, yeah, we could have kept going but like it was harder to keep that one going than I thought it would be. Okay, anyway, what's your number one?
John Shull 1:03:51
So it's chicken wings. And I love it. I love everything about the messiness, the chicken wings. I love the sauce that gets under your fingernail. fingernails. I love you know, going home and just smelling it for hours until you take a shower. It's just it's awesome. I love it. I
Nick VinZant 1:04:10
don't want to ever eat a chicken wing that doesn't leave me with something on my fingers or my shirt. It's not a chicken wing in my regard. If I come away clean from a chicken wing, then I didn't have a chicken wink.
John Shull 1:04:25
You said that very matter of factly so I believe you.
Nick VinZant 1:04:27
Oh yeah, I agree. 100% agree what's in your honorable mention.
John Shull 1:04:31
So of ice cream, specifically ice cream sandwiches. Hmm. Because those those songs Yeah,
Nick VinZant 1:04:38
I guess that's true. I don't have Do you have trouble with ice cream cones? No,
John Shull 1:04:43
because I eat it so fast. Yeah, me too. Like it's not even I'm
Nick VinZant 1:04:48
not even wait for me. Not wait for that thing to melt.
John Shull 1:04:51
No, man. This is pretty. Like these aren't very common but like crab legs. Like those are messy whenever I've had them
Nick VinZant 1:04:59
I've never had any like fancy seafood stuff like I've never had lobster. I mean, I've had lobster and like other things, but I've never had like, a lobster or a crab legs or anything like that.
John Shull 1:05:15
Ya know, it's a desert. Yeah, I don't know how it's that they're delicious. I mean, it's literally the attendance of the crabs lake like it's nice and, like tender but for anyways, no one cares. Um, I have like a fast food hamburger. Like those are always usually pretty messy like Culvers Big Mac, something like that. Okay, okay. And I have two final things. Like chili cheese fries.
Nick VinZant 1:05:46
Yeah,
John Shull 1:05:46
I'd personally agree with that. Yeah, and a watermelon.
Nick VinZant 1:05:50
I don't really have any difficulty with watermelon, but I'm a big fan of watermelon and know how to cut watermelon correctly. I would absolutely agree with you with cheese fries. I can I can make a case that you could say that nachos can be a little messy. Yeah, for sure. But that's one of those things too that like if nachos aren't messy then I don't they're not nachos. Needs to not smothered? Nacho cheese. Oh, I thought of it. Wait a minute. I thought of a line. Like you know how we were talking about action movies. Okay, and it was but I was gonna be like, it would be like if I killed somebody like a Mexican themed restaurant for an action movie. I'd be like, hope he didn't want enchiladas because it's not show day. And then like, throw them in the fryer or something.
John Shull 1:06:43
You just ended there.
Nick VinZant 1:06:45
Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it really helps us out and let us know what you think are some of the messiest foods. I think ribs honestly should have been higher on that list, because they can be a big mess. But let us know what you think are some of the messiest foods around. Thanks for joining us.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
We’ve all experienced that feeling in our gut. But when should you trust your intuition and when should you ignore it? Intuition Researcher and Cognitive Neuroscientist Dr. Joel Pearson studies how intuition works. We talk trusting your intuition, decoding the information hidden in our subconscious and why we should smile more. Then, we unveil a new Candle of the Month and countdown the Top 5 Action Movie One Liners.
Dr. Joel Pearson: 01:21
Pointless: 29:43
Candle of the Month: 51:21
Top 5 Movie One Liners: 54:23
Nick VinZant 0:00
Hi welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode intuition, and the best movie one liners,
Dr. Joel Pearson 0:22
consciousness like an iceberg. So we're only aware of the very tip sticking out of the water. And most of what your brain is processing all the different information, what you're seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, all that stuff's you're not conscious of, we fall for the trap that it's easy to imagine. And then you'll find that when you get that feeling, when something's about to happen, you won't ignore it, you'll start following it, right, and you'll begin to trust it, you'll know when to trust it, when not to trust it.
Nick VinZant 0:52
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it, it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest. This is intuition researcher and cognitive neuroscientist, Dr. Joel Pearson. What is intuition? Like I know what it is, but I don't know what it is.
Dr. Joel Pearson 1:25
So the way I define it is a little different from some other people, right? So I'm not talking about a magical sixth sense, right? Tapping into the universe or the ether, you know, anything spiritual, necessarily, or magical like that. So I define it fairly simply as the productive use of unconscious information for better decisions and actions, unconscious
Nick VinZant 1:46
information. That's like stuff that I noticed. But I don't know, though. Notice that I notice if is that, yeah. Unconscious information. Yeah,
Dr. Joel Pearson 1:55
so our brain. So right now you're sitting here and your brain is processing a ton of things is processing, but you're focusing attention on on me, hopefully, my face my voice, but you're not processing, you know, the air conditioning, or the temperature where you are, maybe the way your back or leg feels in the Chair, if I say How's your leg feels that comfortable. Now you can pay attention to that. And all sudden, you might become conscious of how the chair or the cushion or all these other things. So there's a whole lot of things going on in the background. And so people talk about consciousness, like an iceberg. So we're only aware of the very tip sticking out of the water. And most of what your brain is processing all the different information, what you're seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, all that stuff's you're not conscious of, but your brain is still processing it. So the information is still there in your brain. You're just not aware of it. So that's kind of what I'm talking about. All the information. As you walk through life, you walk into a cafe, the music, the temperature, the style, how cool the staff look, if there's tablecloths, no tablecloths, you know, and 100, other variables, all that's been processed by your brain. And in that second or two, as you walk into the cafe, that all those things are triggering associations, and you're feeling that we can dive, you know, as deep as you want into the science around that. You're feeling that as a feeling right in the gut, in the chest, maybe the fingertips, right. So that the 1000 other times you've been to a cafe to get a coffee, your brains learned that certain music, certain style, certain colors, certain this certain that predict good coffee, or bad coffee, shitty food, good food. And that's all that learning has been happening under the hood. It's all been happening unconsciously. So when you walk into the cafe, you don't have to do anything or think anything, you just feel it. And that's that, that gut feeling that that we talk about with intuition by feeling in our bodies. We're not rationally logically going through all the different options.
Nick VinZant 3:54
So are we kind of like making a decision without knowing that we're making a decision?
Dr. Joel Pearson 4:00
Yeah, well, it's not the actual final decision. But it's the evidence for that decision, where we're getting a feeling sometimes very strong. I like this person, or like red flag alarm bells. I don't trust them. So you get it's the extra evidence towards the decision. And so the idea of intuition is to learn to trust that to use that. And this book that is coming out is really about five rules, based on the science for how to make that the most legitimate signal, how we can trust that. Because my message is not that intuition is always good or always bad. I don't want people to go out there and just trust it all the time. Because there are specific situations when you you can trust it, but other times we should absolutely not use it. So
Nick VinZant 4:45
is this happening in a specific part of the brain that you would say like, okay, that's intuition working, versus Okay, that's rational thought working.
Dr. Joel Pearson 4:54
So it depends on what the information we're talking about. It's going to involve the limbic system, which is sort of the Data is part of the limbic system, the emotions, we're feeling it, it's also going to evolve the body. So we have this. So we can perceive things out in the world, I can look around the room and see things, I can also perceive stuff inside my body. But the bathroom when I'm hot or cold, hungry, thirsty, that's called interoception. Just internal perception. So when my brain responds to something emotional, even if it's unconscious, my body still responds. So we can do this in the lab, I can show you a nasty image, render it unconscious, so you never are consciously aware of it. But your body will still respond, your heart rate will go up, you'll start sweating just a little bit more. So your body responds, even though you have no idea what it's responding to. And that is part of this feeling. So you can tap into that, that information through sensing your body.
Nick VinZant 5:52
But is it only kind of after the fact stuff I can't even think of a great example right off the top of my head. But I think everybody has experienced this where you notice something that like, Oh, that's a little off. And then you find out later that this thing had happened, or that thing had happened? You
Dr. Joel Pearson 6:09
get the feeling as it's happening, like I said, you run into someone in the street. And maybe you'll get enough a funny feeling about them, right? Something just doesn't click, it doesn't feel quite right. And you maybe have no idea why right? You don't have time to go hmm, is it their twitchiness? Is it the speed they're talking? Is it their hairstyle? Is it this is it that or, but you just feel something. And then later on, you might find out, you know, they're trying to scam you or they're trying to do this, they're trying to do that. Or maybe your intuition was false. And it was misleading, and they weren't really genuine. So often you find out later, what the signal might be based on. But in the moment, it's all happening too quickly. So it's all under the hood, you're going to feel it as it's happening in real time. And some people can tap into that a lot more than others. Some people feel these signals very strongly. Other people that don't really notice it as much. And when you give you know, if you send out a study to people, and you ask how do you make decisions every day? Some people say very logically, very rationally. Other people say no, I make very intuitive decisions. And I feel my way through things. So this is full spectrum in the world. And about 10 years ago, we developed a method to measure intuition in the lab. And it's kind of complicated, but we we found a way to I call it emotional Inception like that, like Inception that Chris Nolan Yeah, Caprio, right. So we so we're not doing dreams, or we can do when people are awake. And we show them a positive or a negative like a image, maybe it's like a snake or a spider or something that pretty scary, then we can flash stuff in the other eye, and it becomes invisible or unconscious. But as I said before the brain still processing it. So their body still responds, the brain still processing a negative or a positive image, but they have no idea at the exact exact same time, they have to make a very simple decision. And that's just looking at some dots moving left or right, super simple. And that's the that's the conscious decision. So all they go looking at these dots, they got left another trial, all the dots are now going to the right up now to the left. And without them even knowing that we're feeding in these unconscious images. And what we can show is that people who are good at intuition can utilize those unconscious images, because we set it up in a way that the images kind of give away the answer to the moving dots thing. So they're feeling the emotion. And that gives they feel positive, that gives the answer say to the right, they feel negative that gives the answer to left. So after a few trials, they start to learn this association, unconsciously. And then their decision accuracy goes up, they start responding more quickly, they get more confident in their decisions. And they don't even know this is happening. So once you understand what intuition is, and how we can think about it, it becomes quite sort of straightforward, to think about how the brain works and how learning works and memory, and a bunch of other things. And these rules naturally emerge from the way we understand the brain.
Nick VinZant 9:16
So when we talk about like tapping into it, how do you tap into this? Like, how do you use this kind of for your advantage?
Dr. Joel Pearson 9:23
So in the book, I have an acronym smile, right? So that stands for a couple of important things. So the idea is, you know, before you use intuition, smile, remember to smile. And it's just five rules about when, when and how to practice intuition and the s. The first thing is self awareness that really is trying to be aware of your emotional state. So the rule there is that we shouldn't practice intuition. If you're feeling anxious or depressed, or any strong emotion, right? Even positive, you've just fallen in love. You've just won the lottery, whatever it might be these strong positive emotions are going to sort of Flat out the subtle feelings of intuition as well. So there's there's good data now that decision making and in fact, specifically intuition gets doesn't really work when you're depressed or anxious. So if you're in those states, just stay away from it. But more generally speaking, if you think about what intuition is, is tapping into these, these feelings, these internal bodily sensations, and if you're highly anxious, or stressed or over the moon, right, you're just not gonna be able to tap into that anymore, you're going to, you're going to be confused about the source of those emotions. And that's something humans are not very good at that it's called arousal Miss attribution. So we often get confused about where our signals coming from. So a neat story on this is one of my many years, over 10 years ago, now, before I got married, I went on a first date rock climbing, right? And we will rock climbing indoor climbing gym was amazing chemistry, we're all pumped up amazing. Turns out didn't work. So well. We weren't suited to each other. But on that first date, it felt amazing, right? And that I realized a couple of years later, was this arousal, Miss attribution? So when you're rock climbing, or you got adrenaline, you're high up off the ground, you're falling swing back in, right? You're feeling all this heart rates high. And humans are just lousy at knowing where these signals come from. So what happens is you think this, you feeling this way because of the other person? And you're not at all you're feeling it because
Nick VinZant 11:30
of the rock climbing. Now the end that airmen smile, what's that? Yes, that's
Dr. Joel Pearson 11:34
mastery. So that's so that's around learning. So I mentioned before that the way we I think about in the way we talk about intuition is that we have to learn these associations, like all the things in the cafe, right, the tablecloth, the music, whatever it is, what predicts good or bad coffee, for example. So you have to learn that, and it takes time to learn that. So the idea is, if you've never had coffee, never been to a cafe before, you're not going to have intuition for good or bad cafes, right? You walk into a cafe, any feelings you have aren't gonna be useful. Right? So you need to have some mastery at something before you can start relying on your intuition. And I, yeah, that's my impulses and addiction. So importantly, when we're dealing with addictive substances, you know, drugs, alcohol, smoking, but also, you know, gambling, social media, checking your email, the draw the pull towards these things can feel a lot like intuition, right? Can feel natural, this urge, whenever another drink, I want to check my my social media, whatever it might be. And that's not intuition. And we shouldn't confuse the two. And we shouldn't try and use the idea of natural intuition as an excuse to go into towards these addictive things.
Nick VinZant 12:49
How about the L and the E. So L is for low probability.
Dr. Joel Pearson 12:53
But it really is really for all probability, probabilistic thinking. So numbers. So we're just really bad human brains aren't developed or evolved or just just lousy at trying to understand numbers. So especially things that are low probability we're just not good at right. So we think of, you know, I'm here in Sydney, Australia, and we've got a fantastic beaches, that people get freaked out about sharks, right? You go for a swim, and you start, you know, especially if you're my age, you hear the jaws music, right? You imagine the sharks swimming underneath you, and you get out of the water, right? But the probability of us being bitten by a shark is so low, right? It's lower than being in a car accident, or being in a fatal car accident, it's, it's something we don't really need to worry about, even if you swim a lot. But we fall for the trap that it's easy to imagine, right? It's emotive, we can imagine a shark, it's fear centers of the brain become active. And it's kind of scary. So things that are easy to imagine, will confuse and think they're more likely to happen, basically. So we get probabilities, they're totally wrong. Like the things we should be worried about a more like cardiac event, like heart attacks, these kinds of things. When you ask people what they're scared of, they say public speaking sharks, you know, things like that, right? Not the things that can actually really hurt us. We'll just feel a sense for something and it'll be misleading. So the general rule here is just avoid using your intuition for anything around probabilities, numbers, right? gamblers fallacy is another one, if you're in a casino, you know, playing roulette, and you sit, you know, yet three or four or five blacks in a row, you're going to start thinking about a red has to come up now. Right? And that's totally wrong, because each spin of the wheel is completely independent to the last one. But it's so hard to believe that because you feel like there's been five blacks, you know, it's begging for a red now there just has to be a red coming up next. So the ease for environment and that that really links back to the end for learning. So the kinds of learning we're talking about here, this is you know, associative learning good old Pavlov's dogs, right? The classical conditioning In good old Psych 101 stuff. And so you're learning these cues for the environment and what they predict good or bad outcomes. And importantly, this kind of learning is context, environment specific, which turns out, it's important if you think about it. So if you've mastered intuition in the workplace in your office, right, and then you go home, part of that learning is location specific. So it actually won't transfer that well to different environments, to different locations of context. And the example I often give of that, Steve Jobs at Apple, right, because he wrote and talked about intuition, he went to India, he loved using intuition. He used it for product design for sort of directing apple in which way it will go later in life. And he had some health challenges, he made some sort of what people would call poor choices. He said no to surgery, he put that off and went for very alternative treatments, against his doctors and other people's suggestions. And so that would be an example of where, you know, you can master intuition. So well, in one domain, and at work, when it comes to your health and other areas, or different contexts. It doesn't transfer as much. And so it's an easy thing to feel to, for for when I'm traveling, I'm in a different context, right? I find it really hard to not use my intuition for for navigation, if I'm going for a run, I love running, you know, running out in the forest and trees, navigating with the sun's, you know, set rising and setting in a different place, it will confuse my navigation skills. Gestures is another one I talk about in the book where in different cultures and different countries, different gestures, thumbs up, or this kind of signal mean very different things. And so we've got to be very careful for when we've learned intuition for one thing, and then we transfer that to a different location. And interestingly, the learning is also dependent on the internal state of our bodies. Right? So the old joke is, you know, you come home, you've had a few drinks, you come home drunk, you throw your keys somewhere, the next morning, like, damn, Where are the keys, I can't find them. Right, you have a couple of drinks, again, bang, the memory comes back. So in other words, things you learn when you're drunk, you will actually remember slightly better when you're drunk again. So the internal state of your body is not just that, where you are physically, it's the internal state, if you're highly caffeinated, if you're stressed, up or down, that state gets built into the memory along with the physical location. It
Nick VinZant 17:36
kind of sounds like it lets us fill in the blanks of familiar situations, like we noticed this thing, then we know that these dominoes are going to be next. But it has to be the exact same kind of situation in some regard. Yeah,
Dr. Joel Pearson 17:50
it has to be because the learning so for that, the example I give is like if you're studying at school or university, and you're in your bedroom, studying for hours cramming for the exam, right? What you're actually learning is, is also all the information encodes the bedroom, the music, you might be listening to the smell, right, so one of the study tricks students will use is they'll try and replicate, they'll use oil or smells, incense or fragrance, or you know, like lavender or peppermint oil, have that smell while they're studying. When they go to the exam. They'll put that smell that oil back on on their wrist. So they recreate the same environment, the same smell as when they were studying, because you actually want the the testing environment and the study environment to be as similar as possible. If you're chewing gum, when you're studying, you want to be chewing gum in the exam. So you want to recreate the environment as closely as possible.
Nick VinZant 18:44
So why when you look and you look at your research, right, like, why are some people good at it? Why are some people not good at?
Dr. Joel Pearson 18:50
Yeah, great question. So this isn't we don't have the full answer for this yet. I think it has something to do with that. That internal perception, that fancy word interoception. So I think some people have stronger emotional responses, and they're more sensitive to their internal state. So in other words, the same thing might be happening in their body. But some people don't know, whoa, I'm feeling this heavy feeling the sinking feeling in my gut. I don't trust this person. Someone else, their body's still responding, but they're like, I have no idea. They just don't feel it. So just the same way that some people more sensitive, visually, optically perceptually, they can look at, their eyesight is much better, they can see things much better. People are better, some people are better at this internal perception. And that's going to make a difference, right? You're much more sensitive, over years and years of making decisions. You're just going to start noticing these feelings and you're gonna start trying to use them to help you decision making naturally. So you're gonna learn to practice intuition just by yourself if you're feeling it. So we think that's the answer. But we haven't really nailed that with experiments yet. That's what we want to work on next. It
Nick VinZant 20:00
just seemed like a hard thing to be like, Okay, how can you really measure and study this?
Dr. Joel Pearson 20:05
So early in the evolution of intuition as a science, it's a young science. In other words. And when I talk to a lot of, you know, leaders and business CEOs, they're a little shy about saying they use intuition for big decisions. In private, they'll say, Absolutely, I use intuition for huge decisions, I have to, I don't have time to get all the information, the information is ambiguous at best. So I have to make these gut responses. But there's still a little bit embarrassed about being public about that going to telling the board telling the general public, that's how they'll make big decisions. So part of my reason for for talking about this for writing this book intuition toolkit is to change that to Bucha. To try and make intuition as legitimate science, something that we can understand something that we have a guide to. And if people follow these five rules, then we can, more or less trust their decision making. And it's not woowoo or spiritual or magical for a CEO to say, you know, no, I use my intuition for this decision. I follow the science, and it's all good. It's the best decision I can make.
Nick VinZant 21:08
Are you ready? For some harder slash listener submitted questions? Absolutely. Bring it on? Yeah. Who's better men or women? Oh, great
Dr. Joel Pearson 21:15
question. Yeah, that people love asking there. So it turns out when you ask people, How intuitive Are you self reporting, women report being more intuitive and report that they think they're better at making intuition, they use it more often, they also score higher, more, much higher on what's called magical thinking. This is sort of the believing in magic, but also be more spiritual and a whole range of other things. In general, generally speaking, men report being more rational and being more logical in their decision making. Here's the caveat, except when it comes to sport, and gambling. So when it comes to gambling around sport, all of a sudden, in that narrow topic, on average, again, men report all sudden doing various superstitious and magical thinking, you know, they, they cross their fingers, they cross their legs, they wish this and wish that their team is going to win. So what we want to do next is start testing people, men and women, in our lab based measurements, to try and get a more accurate understanding of, of, is one sex or one gender better, or different races better. And why? Because their sort of intuition is also more respected or less respected in different cultures. Often in Asian style cultures, it is more respect. And people look up to intuition and respect it more generally speaking, than in Western cultures. So that's something interesting as well.
Nick VinZant 22:42
Have you ever seen somebody that was like an outlier and the Savant of intuition, funnily
Dr. Joel Pearson 22:48
enough that we aren't, we've just launched this brand new experiment. So it's a big study, through generally, big donation to university philanthropy. I can't go into the details yet, because it's just beginning. But that's exactly what we're looking into. And it does seem that some people are off the chart with this. Now, we don't really understand why or how what's going on yet. But there does seem to be exactly what you said, Nicholas. So there's these outlier people that are just really good at this,
Nick VinZant 23:17
then I would imagine the opposite is true, though, to that there's also people who are just absolutely terrible at it. Yeah.
Dr. Joel Pearson 23:22
So when we give people questionnaires, some people will say, Yeah, I have, I feel no intuition, I make all my decisions very rationally, logically, pros and cons list. When we get them into the lab, and we test them in our objective, reliable lab based measure for intuition, they don't really get a boost for these unconscious positive or negative images, they just don't seem to be able to utilize that information. So it makes no difference whether you add those images in, take them away, the decision making stays the same, or as people who report making everyday intuitive decisions in their life. When we get them into the lab, they get a big boost from these unconscious images. So the way people feel like they make everyday decisions does seem to be related to the architecture of the brain, the way we're measuring this in the lab, this kind of thing. So yeah, there is a big distribution here. And people at both ends of the spectrum
Nick VinZant 24:17
kind of talked a little bit about this before, but I asked the question because it got asked to us, or their air, like what areas do people seem to be strongest in intuition? What areas do they seem to be weakest? The
Dr. Joel Pearson 24:29
weakest I would say is when those five rules aren't met. Right? So anything around probabilities, bang, we get we get totally wrong, right? So that's, that's why I sort of developed this framework and these rules, so things like that. So there's some cognitive biases, which sort of lead us astray when we think about numbers. So probably the probabilistic thinking is one of the areas where we're absolutely the worst. Then I would also say that we do about the environment and learning. What I didn't mention before is, if the environment is random, there's nothing to learn. And this, this is the like the casino, right? If the roulette wheel is random, you can't learn to predict that your intuition has nothing to learn because it's random. So in random environments like that, we have to be careful because we can't learn a pattern. But we may not realize we may still have false alarms when it comes to intuition. And I came up with this word, I call this Miss intuition, as in a misfiring of intuition. So when we feel like we get intuition, but it's totally wrong, and it leads us astray, like the Steve Jobs example. So I call that Miss intuition. So that's a word I coined, to cut to talk about when things go wrong. And when we should not follow our intuition. At its best for predictable reliable environments, things that we can learn pretty easily when all those five rules are met, when we're pretty calm. Also, something that is also part of that is the learning process. So if you're, if you're making decisions about things that take a long time to get the feedback, you've thought about buying a house, maybe it takes you a year to really feel like you know, it's a good house or a bad house, you're buying stocks for the long term, you don't know whether you've made a good choice for months maybe. And so it's very hard to learn with this very slow feedback system. Whereas if you're playing sport, you make a choice, you get the feedback, immediately you get tackled, or you get knocked over whatever it is. So you can get feedback straight away. And you're making you know, hundreds of 1000s of decisions over and over and over. So when that feedback loop, that whole process is really fast. The learnings accelerated? Do
Nick VinZant 26:45
you? Is there any research in the sense of like, okay, well, people are right, this amount of times?
Dr. Joel Pearson 26:51
Ah, not not with any hard numbers, I would just say, because it depends on too many variables depends on their state. What the, what they're making the decision about? You know, it just depends on too many things.
Nick VinZant 27:04
That would be the thing, because I think that all of us have those experience where, like, I noticed something was off. But I didn't react to it in any way. Like, I just kept going about it. And even though in hindsight, I think back and like, oh, I should have noticed something then and done something, then I never make that change and start to be like, no, wait, stop here. Focus on that thing that you just noticed was odd. But why do I never like make that change? Like, why don't I ever learn from my mistakes? I guess,
Dr. Joel Pearson 27:34
right? It's a matter of practice, daily practice, learn to do that to stop and take a moment, you don't have to figure out what's, you know, what about the 100 variables are the 100 things that that's triggering this feeling, just note the feeling, you know, decide whether you're gonna follow it or not. And just keep an eye and just make a few notes about it later. And then over time, the idea is to see those the decisions improve. That's the way I think, the best approach to intuition of a daily practice, internalize those five rules. So you don't have to think about them. But first, you will have to, it'll be some effort involved. And just practice intuition, small decisions, build them up over time. And then you'll find that when you get that feeling, when something's about to happen, you won't ignore it, you'll start following it, right? And you'll begin to trust it. And you'll know when to trust it, when not to trust it. So
Nick VinZant 28:26
that's pretty much all the questions that I have. Is there anything I know the book is coming out? What's the name? Where can people get it, that kind of stuff. So
Dr. Joel Pearson 28:33
it's going to be called the intuition toolkit in Australia and New Zealand. In the UK, it's just gonna be called intuition. That shorter title. Right now it's not the US version is not out right now. People can buy and get it shipped from the UK or Australia. If people liked the sound, the dulcet tones of sounds of my, you know, calming, relaxing voice, the audio book will be out as well at Audible and other sources. And that's read by me, so people can download that. Yeah, and so I mean, I'm on a mission to try and basically improve people's lives through better decision making right and trying to bring mix this this idea of his rational, logical decision making with a feeling the spiritual, the softer side of humans and bring those two things together.
Nick VinZant 29:22
I want to thank Dr. Pearson So much for joining us if you want to connect with him. We have linked to him on our social media sites, or Profoundly Pointless on tick tock, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included his information along with a link to his new book in the episode description. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw, and get to the pointless part of the show. Do you think that your life would be easier if you were younger or older? Same situation, just a younger or older version version of yourself.
John Shull 30:01
My immediate reaction is say is to say younger because if it was the same circumstances, I'd rather be younger than older for sure to deal with all with everything we deal with on a daily basis as being a father, employee, taxpaying citizen.
Nick VinZant 30:19
I feel like I'm actually in a situation where my life would be easier if I was older, because I'm hitting like the early stages of a midlife crisis. And I don't really know what to do. So I feel like an older version of me would be wiser. But otherwise, I would say younger.
John Shull 30:37
Do you need to talk about it? Do you need to tell us what's on your mind? And what's been weighing you down? No.
Nick VinZant 30:42
Midlife crisis, man, when you approach it, it's weird. It's like starting your life over again, but with less options.
John Shull 30:49
So are you just in the gym eight hours a day just listening to disturbed and just
Nick VinZant 30:55
know I'm not like buying a Corvette.
John Shull 30:58
I mean, just for the age aspect alone, I would rather be younger. Because finality is scary, right? I feel like when you're younger, no matter what situation you're put in for most people, it's like, Oh, I'll get through it. Or I can break my arm. And in three months, I'll be fine. Or, you know, I'll get a better paying job. At some point. It's, you know, I feel like obviously, the older that get you get those options, that time goes away or becomes more precious. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 31:28
I would agree that most of the time, it would be younger. And I asked our audience about this same question. 60% said their life would be easier if they were younger. 20% said it would be easier if they're older 21% said it would be the same either way. So I agree that most of the time, it would be better if you were younger. But I think there are some circumstances where an older version of you would probably handle a big decision better.
John Shull 31:54
I don't want to speak for everybody. But I feel like most people would not make some of the decisions that they made, you know, to get to where they were, if they could go back to being younger. I
Nick VinZant 32:04
would like to know what my options are. That's what I want on my deathbed. Like, if we go somewhere else, I would like to somebody to just like, sit down and be like, Look, here's all the things that you could have done or been or whatever, like, choose your own adventure, and they ran through all the different possibilities of your life, I think that would be the coolest thing in the world. No, that's what I want.
John Shull 32:24
I would not I mean, I would want that now. Because maybe, you know, I'd be able to achieve some of those. I don't want to know all the regrets that I could have as I'm like, dying. That's not a way to go to die.
Nick VinZant 32:39
Oh, I just want to know what the possibilities are man, like, oh, you know, what, if you did this, you could have been President. And if you did this, you would have been the most hated man in the world. Yeah, no, I'm good. Might be the same thing. Right?
John Shull 32:53
I mean, we're not going to talk politics yet. But regardless, um, no, I would not want to that's I am a strong No, on that one. I would, I would just want them to pull the plug of like, somebody came up to me and was like, Well, John, when you were 18, if you would have done this and that you would have been married to, you know, Shakira, like, I don't want to know that, you know, as I'm dying.
Nick VinZant 33:19
Yeah, but you don't think that that would be kind of interesting. I think that'd be cool. To be like, you know, what, if you would have done this, like, this would have happened, and that would have happened. And even if it was like a little thing, like, you know, what, if you would have gotten Cherry Coke, instead of regular Coke here, your whole life would have been different. I
John Shull 33:38
mean, I once again i It's fine. I would just rather know now, you know, like at 40. Have someone come tell me all the things they've screwed up or opportunities I miss now. So maybe then I'd be more open to doing things differently in my last 12 years.
Nick VinZant 33:57
If you think about it, that's, yeah, well, you had the gym now. Oh, my God. 13, maybe 14. Dude, we're not doing this. We're not doing this because you just want to go down the road of talking about your basement, the weather or now that you're going to the gym?
John Shull 34:12
Can I just guys tell one story it made it warms my heart and I feel
Nick VinZant 34:16
like okay, fine. Thank you. Tell your gem store,
John Shull 34:19
keep the 60 seconds. So I just do cardio now, right? I'm a guy. I'm a big guy. Like I don't need to have any more mass. None of that. Right. So I do cardio. And I go to Planet Fitness. And obviously most of the cardio machines overlook the weights and whatnot. Just this past week, there it was very early in the morning. And this woman is on like a lap machine. It's the machine that you pull back towards your your body and you know, you tend to your backup and whatever works out your back muscles. Well, some guy had the great idea of basically setting up a mat next to her. And like he started doing crunches. And I was like well that's like yeah, like I'm close
Nick VinZant 34:58
next to like how we need I need to know how close what is the physical distance between the two of
John Shull 35:03
them? I'm gonna say six feet.
Nick VinZant 35:07
That's not crazy. No, but that's
John Shull 35:10
when there's 14 people in the entire place. And you set up and they were not together by the way, they were not together. Oh,
Nick VinZant 35:20
it was noticeably like, you could have done that. Yeah, well, okay, I have one addendum there. There is at the gym that I go to a treadmill that I like, and I'll get on that, but apologize to the person next to me if I don't already know them because I go at the same time, and there's regulars there and all that kind of stuff. And I'll be like, Look, sorry, I really like this one. Does it bother you if I'm next to you?
John Shull 35:44
I mean, I get that that to me. It did not appear that way. Anyways, okay. Okay, long story short, he does maybe six crunches. And then he gets up and he goes over and grabs a 25 pound plate. And I'm like, Oh, this is gonna get interesting. What's he going to do with this thing? He puts it on his stomach. And he's gonna like do weighted crunches. But he's not like, he's not like the most in shape guy. So anyways, he goes to lift his head up one time, and the weight slides off onto his left side. And all I see is like him jumped to his feet and like, hold his side. Ah, he
Nick VinZant 36:22
got he tried to play it cool. Instead, look the fool. Oh,
John Shull 36:26
yeah, that's the best way to do the best part about it. It was this woman was like having none of it. He got up, put, put the plate back, came back, grabbed his mat went somewhere else and she just is continuing her sets. didn't even ask him. I don't think if he was okay. It was amazing.
Nick VinZant 36:42
I don't unless I don't make eye contact with people. I don't look at people at the gym. I don't do anything like that. We're not talking about the gym. Okay, we're talking about it's fine.
John Shull 36:51
You know, I hope other people out there are inspired by us and go and go get exercise. Right. It's important. Anyways.
Nick VinZant 36:59
Okay, glad you finally realized that after 36 years, he's not sure. Well, that's not true. Now you're going to be the workout guy like, Hey, man, you really got to you know what, you really got to start working out right? Because I've been doing that for a week and a half and let me tell you about how great it is. I
John Shull 37:13
used to work out and I got married. I met you started drinking. Married uses anyways, is a bad if I walk up to people and I tell them what they're doing wrong.
Nick VinZant 37:23
Yeah, you can't do that. I would never tell anyone what. Yeah, I would never. If somebody put 900 pounds on their back and tried to like lift it in this twisting. jerking motion. I'd be like, Oh, no, I wouldn't say anything. Like Alright, man. I'll call the paramedics when that doesn't go well for you. I'm not saying any I legit
John Shull 37:41
to stand there or keep doing my cardio. Just watch these events unfold. It's amazing. All right, we Oh, shout outs already. I'm kind of excited about the back end of this little segment we do here because our top five is busy day. It's a busy day for us chefs kiss I think of top fives coming up for us. All right. Okay. Let's do some shout outs first, shall we? Paul Shoka appreciate you. Angelo show green. Giovanni Hernandez. Scott Streeter Christina to net. Parker zali pretty sure it screwed up that last name but hey, I gave to college try Leanna Solano. Let's see here. Taha is a good Haley felon Randy Herskowitz. good buddy of ours longtime listener and Rob Palooza appreciate all of you that gave us a shout out check this out. Yeah, you know, Niko is promos, our social media so much better than me, so I'll let I'll let him do it. When the episode comes out, but Yeah, appreciate you.
Nick VinZant 38:46
I like the Randy's a solid name. There's not it's another one of those names that there can't be a lot of them but like Randy, Cody, okay, I can I can take a couple of those can't be a lot of them. But that's all right. Like you never want to have to Randy's in one class. Randy
John Shull 39:02
is a great name. I've always liked Randy. Whether it whether it be for you know,
Nick VinZant 39:07
Randy, Randy, Randy. Coming at Randy, Randy. Right. Yeah, you like it's got to be a name that is both serious and fun and slightly unique. This is
John Shull 39:18
just for him. But random color anyways. All right. You ready?
Nick VinZant 39:22
You call another man? You say that to another man.
John Shull 39:26
I mean, it's it's rare. But yes, that has been said plenty of times. He should punch you directly in the face. Probably for many more things than me saying that but yes, he probably should. So alright. So if you're just listening to us for the first time basically this next segment, I pick 10 random things off the top of my head and I just have Nick react to them. So here we go. Let's start with sea lions.
Nick VinZant 39:57
I used to have sea lions living next To my house, I live in Seattle, I live fairly close to the sound where you can hear sea lions. They're massive. And then somebody, some jerk who didn't like looking at the sea lions put up a special thing and scared away the sea lions. And now I can't walk down and see the sea lions anymore. And I really hate the fact that it takes only a few people to ruin things for everybody.
John Shull 40:23
I have a lot of questions. This isn't really that kind of segment. But I just want to know what was put up to get the sea lions away. There
Nick VinZant 40:31
was like a flat floating small dock and they took these big rubber ish things that basically make like a half circle, and they put it on top of it to keep the sea lions from resting on it, because they didn't want them near their private boat. But anyway, the sea lions came back and they figured it out. You always lose against Mother Nature. Remember that? Nature will always beat you. Drop
John Shull 40:54
the mic episode over. Just kidding. All right. Ah, syrup.
Nick VinZant 41:01
Oh, it's good. I love it. I love it. But really, it's very it's a it is a great thing, but it's very limited. You can really only put syrup in my opinion on pancakes and waffles. That is an incredibly tasting thing that only goes on to things. You can't put it on anything else without having some dietary problems.
John Shull 41:20
Speaking speaking to a pro here, right?
Nick VinZant 41:23
I can't like you can't be putting syrup on potatoes or something like that. Like no, you don't put it on your eggs, man. You're gonna go down a bad road.
John Shull 41:30
Martin Sheen. Which one is he? He's the he's the dad.
Nick VinZant 41:39
But is he the dad of both Charlie Sheen and Emilio Estefan as devas? Yes,
John Shull 41:44
I believe if I'm not mistaken, they have different mothers but he is their father.
Nick VinZant 41:49
Which one do you think he's prouder of? Charlie is definitely more famous and has been in more movies. But the other one is not Charlie. Like Which one do you think Martin Sheen is more proud of? I mean, really? Hello, Charlie. Thinking
John Shull 42:03
of it from a father perspective. I feel like Charlie Sheen has probably kept him up more at night. Probably cost him more money as an adult. Yeah, he's
Nick VinZant 42:12
probably cost him a lot more.
John Shull 42:13
But also the same time you're like, Charlie fucking lived life. He lived at heart. Yeah.
Nick VinZant 42:18
Do you want like, the hard partying? Badass Wellington a badass, but you know what I mean? Like, do you want the kind of hard part? Do you want the rebel kid? Or do you want the good kid? Like, who are you secretly a little bit more proud of? I
John Shull 42:34
mean, once again, I feel like I would want the rebel kid but only but you know, I have a rebel kid in there. And she's disastrous. I was wrong. By the way. Martin Sheen has been married to the same woman since 1961. And they have four children. So Emilio and Charlie are, you know, say Mom, same dad.
Nick VinZant 42:53
That's a long Hollywood marriage that's got to be set in the records so that he just changed his name so he wasn't a sheen. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, that's all right. Right. Did some movie that wasn't okay. Anyway,
John Shull 43:04
his name is actually Ramon Antonio Gerardo esta vez if you care to know
Nick VinZant 43:10
All right, wait a minute if he's married to the same woman, how does he have a different name? I
John Shull 43:15
mean, I I'm not going to read why he changed his last name machine for God's sake. But he Oh,
Nick VinZant 43:21
his Oh, Butch Martin Sheen's real name is in sheen. He changed his name. Yeah. And the other guy kept the real name.
Unknown Speaker 43:26
Yeah. Okay. Yes. All
Nick VinZant 43:28
right. Now this makes
John Shull 43:29
sense. Let's see Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Nick VinZant 43:35
Oh, he goes and peaks and valleys, more or less biggest movie star in the world at one time, then he kind of fade away then he kind of came back. But he's you have to give that man credit. He has been very good at just about everything that he has done one way or another. made some mistakes
John Shull 43:53
but right I mean, yeah, he he has made some mistakes but World Champion weightlifter, biggest a Lister bodybuilder, whatever. I mean, obviously the governor of California, I mean, dudes done some stuff.
Nick VinZant 44:11
It is amazing to me that when it kind of comes to like handing out things in life, so to speak, some people get all of it. Like they get everything. And then some people just get nothing.
John Shull 44:23
I mean, some would, I don't know. Some would say it's work ethic. Genes, how you're born, but I don't think I think Arnold was not born into a you know, he was not born into a wealthy known family. I don't think like he worked his way from Austria. I don't want to say over here because it's not like that's great or that but you know, like he worked his way into Hollywood, and everything and yeah, I think he's earned everything he's ever had so good for him. Okay, I'll be back. Ice Cream Sandwiches.
Nick VinZant 44:55
Why? Why just eat the I would. I don't this is okay. I don't understand the need for any other dessert besides chocolate ice cream or different varieties of chocolate ice cream, every dessert should just be chocolate ice cream, because it's better than anything else. It's okay. It's better than anything else. It's like giving people a gift. And you can either have the $100 bill, the 50, the 20, the five or the one. Well, I'd rather have the 100 Give him the 100. Chocolate ice cream is the best dessert and it should be every dessert in my opinion.
John Shull 45:26
What if it was a chocolate ice cream sandwich?
Nick VinZant 45:29
Don't care. Get rid of it. Just a waste? What's the point? What's the point of the ice cream sandwich? It does nothing and adds very little.
John Shull 45:36
Alright, I really just put this on here because I know what you're gonna say. But I think it'd be funny. The Grammys
Nick VinZant 45:46
were they on? I don't understand why people care about award shows like I that boggles my mind maybe to see people or something like that, if nothing else is on but like, I don't care if you want an award.
John Shull 46:01
I mean, great. But someone say that's what our culture is based off of. That's how we, you know, that's how we define someone's career is by accolades.
Nick VinZant 46:11
I don't think that aside from maybe music, I don't think any of my favorite media is an award winning, like none of my favorite movies or Academy Award winning movies.
John Shull 46:26
I mean, well, yeah. I mean, it's I agree with you, by the way. I mean, we could talk about this for hours, but I I also don't agree with award shows. I don't think they represent what the people want.
Nick VinZant 46:36
Right? Right. So to the people, all
John Shull 46:41
right, aviator sunglasses.
Nick VinZant 46:45
You better be a pilot, and you better be a fighter pilot, and you better be like one of the good fighter pilots, right? Like, I'm not even talking. You can't even be fine. Like a bomber. You got to be fine, like an F something. And then you can do it. Otherwise. No,
John Shull 46:59
just an F something has to be an F F something. Yeah. All right. What about the the flask tie?
Nick VinZant 47:09
I don't even know what that is. There's a tie. That's also a flask. Yes. I think we have enough. I don't think that you really need that. Right. Okay. Nobody really needs that. There's plenty of ways to drink in this country. I don't think we have a problem with access. No matter how old you are. There's not an access problem. Okay. He's not
John Shull 47:31
grunting at the gym.
Nick VinZant 47:36
You better be doing you better be doing more than me.
John Shull 47:41
Because if they're not, what are you gonna do? Nothing.
Nick VinZant 47:43
You can't be over there. Okay, now I have to tell him like God dang it, dude. Now I have to tie my tell my gym story. Yes, it's gonna sound condescending and mean. But it's not. It's just funny to me because I have two boys. And so I go to a gym. And there's recently been like, there's some reason there's a bunch of high school guys that come in. And they're all I don't know how old 1617 Whatever. And they're in there working out. But one thing that happens is you get old man strength, like a grown man is just stronger than a young man. And so there'll be in there like grunting out, looking at their muscles, flexing in the mirror and benching, like 65 pounds, and I just find it hilarious. And they're like grunt he's like, oh, man, you got the 10s on there. You got to start somewhere, man. You got to start somewhere. No matter where you start. It's best to get started. Just exercise is great for you. But I just I do find it hilarious. And if you're going to be grunting as an adult, you better be doing more than me.
John Shull 48:43
I just always like fine, like the, you know, grunting I'm okay with that, like in tennis. You know, and no, no,
Nick VinZant 48:53
I'm not a fan of grunting at all. I think that if you're really good at something, it should be effortless. I don't think that you should be grunting
John Shull 49:02
Alright, last thing here, the baby mop.
Nick VinZant 49:07
What are these things that you're even talking about?
John Shull 49:09
People have brought them up to me in the last week. And I didn't think they were real. But when you google them, they are actual products. The flask tie that we just talked about
Nick VinZant 49:18
the baby mom. You literally
John Shull 49:21
put the baby in like this little carrier thing and it has like mop tassels on it. And they crawl on the floor and they can clean your floor.
Nick VinZant 49:32
Well, that's just doing two things poorly. You're not taking care of your child and you're probably not cleaning the floor, right? Like anytime that you're multitasking. You're doing one thing poorly at least one thing poor. I mean, I'm against multitasking in general.
John Shull 49:46
I'm gonna see here I mean, I'm looking at it right now you can buy it at Walmart while Walmart looks like about the only
Nick VinZant 49:53
the only kind of that's just ridiculous. The only kind of multitasking that I'm okay with is reading on the toilet? Otherwise you should do one thing at one time.
John Shull 50:07
Yeah, I guess it's fine. I'm cool with it. I mean, I would never buy, I might buy the flat tire at some point in my life, but I would never buy the baby mop. Because, like,
Nick VinZant 50:17
like you said, that's one of those purchases, either the flat tire or the baby mop. You have said something about your life, you have just told people that you have problems.
John Shull 50:27
I mean, they aren't going to clean. They really they know either way, I'm going to have to be the one that cleans it. So I might as well just go into an adult mop.
Nick VinZant 50:35
So what are you going to do to get the job done correctly? You're going to spray the floor with chemicals. No,
John Shull 50:41
we have it's Well, I mean, I have a Swiffer.
Nick VinZant 50:45
Right but what's the baby doing? Don't you need to put some sort of cleaning product on the baby to actually get the thing clean. So you just dousing your child and cleaning supplies. The point
John Shull 50:55
of this this segment is not for you to overthink this so that I'm not
Nick VinZant 51:00
overthinking it. That's two seconds of thinking that's a bad idea. Let's just move on to some idiots gonna put like bleach all over their baby. Probably already happened. You know? That's it's probably already happened. Is that your thing? You got all 10 of them? Yeah,
John Shull 51:17
that's it. We're on to all
Nick VinZant 51:19
What's that sound? Oh watch it's time. The Outlaw candle connoisseur Rides Again. Candle of a month.
John Shull 51:34
I love it. I love the intro. Alright, we're gonna we're gonna take a trip down memory lane here we're gonna go to maybe two years ago. I got this candle didn't even realize I had it. And I was I've done a disservice to myself. I don't even remember how I got this candle who gave it to me. But it's by the poured Candle Company. I believe they are on their online only from my research. The scent this month, because it's February. It's going to be 55 degrees here this week in Metro Detroit. So I needed something a little. You know, it's like spring almost in February, which is insane because February is usually Metro Detroit school this month. Eternal springs.
Nick VinZant 52:21
Ooh, I liked the name. All right. All right. Tell me about the flavor profile. The scent profile.
John Shull 52:26
So in the description says it's inspired by the beautiful springs of downtown Bonita Springs, Florida. So,
Nick VinZant 52:34
no, I've been to downtown Bonita That sounds terrible. Well,
John Shull 52:38
I'll tell you that has undertones of it's very earthy. It's gonna hit you with a very earthy, okay, it's a soy candle. So, the wax, the wax is a little thicker. It's about eight and a half ounces is going to burn for about 40 hours, which if you've listened to my candle, the month you know that that's a pretty good burn time for an eight ounce candle. But in terms of undertones, you're gonna get some sage, you're gonna maybe get like a little bit of lavender lavender hits pretty strong on this one. So you have to like lavender, but it's just gonna it's gonna, it's gonna call me it's going to escape your body. To eternal springs. It's amazing. It's a good candle. I think it's I don't know about 25 bucks I was looking at. It's a little pricey. But yeah, Port candle company.com. Check them out. They I haven't tried any of their other stuff, but I am a moving forward.
Nick VinZant 53:33
How when you are deciding when? Or what when you are deciding on a candle? Like how long are you going to read the description? You feel like you're more of a gut decision maker, you're going to think about it.
John Shull 53:45
Well, since I've started doing this, you know, I think I mentioned this, the brick and mortar stores I would just walk into and buy like the 242 or four ounce sample sizes. I'll buy two dozen of them at a time I'll buy every, every every kind they have. But obviously if you're going a little bit fancier, if you're going a little bit more expensive online or whatnot, I take my time, I try to try to fill out things that maybe I've never smelled or things that I haven't heard of before. And just give them a try.
Nick VinZant 54:18
Okay, okay.
John Shull 54:20
All right. So there is are you ready for our top?
Nick VinZant 54:23
Are you ready for our top five?
John Shull 54:25
I was confident but it's I don't know. This is tough. This might be the toughest harder on top five we've ever done. So
Nick VinZant 54:31
okay, so our top five is top five action movie one liners. What's your number five.
John Shull 54:38
There's there's literally so many. So I don't even know where to start. So I guess my my list is going to be kind of a personal list because I don't know. I don't know how else to do it. But so my number five is from they live. Shout out to Rowdy Roddy Piper when he said As I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubblegum.
Nick VinZant 55:06
That is, that's like one of the most memorable lines. It is like everybody remembers that is that the same movie where he like knees the guy in the crotch for 30 minutes.
John Shull 55:15
Know that that's the movie where like the he refers differently he shoots and then rips off the face of an alien. And like you can see the aliens face and skull it's it's pretty, pretty memorable that Roddy Piper when he's actually saying that line is wearing like orange oranges, red flannel with these dark sunglasses on like it's very memorable, very memorable scene.
Nick VinZant 55:41
I'm gonna go mine number one is from Blade five. Number five. Oh, wait. Yeah, right, right. My number five is from Blade. Some people are always trying to ice skate uphill. I love that line. I still alive when I see somebody trying to do something. When I see somebody doing something the wrong way. I always think of that line from Blade. Some people are always trying to ice skate uphill. I just
John Shull 56:08
love that you gave like the best, you know, superhero. Some love.
Nick VinZant 56:15
Blades a great movie. That's got to be one of the most underrated movies of all time. It's a great movie get does not get enough credit.
John Shull 56:21
I feel like neither does Wesley Snipes as an actor, but doesn't matter.
Nick VinZant 56:26
I don't know. That I think he gets about the appropriate amount. He's not a great actor, or doesn't really seem like a great person either. So anyway, alright,
John Shull 56:35
my number four from the movie Jaws. You're gonna need a bigger boat.
Nick VinZant 56:45
Is that an action? One liner?
John Shull 56:46
Yeah, because it's what? Yes, by far it's a one liner. Why? What else would it be?
Nick VinZant 56:55
I feel like it's gotta be like, after they like they gotta say something to let the bad guys know that they just won.
John Shull 57:01
No, I mean, they're being attacked by a great white shark. And, and the actor stands up and he goes, We're gonna need a bigger but
Nick VinZant 57:13
it is a great movie. You forget like how good that movie is. And that guy is probably one of the best characters in that movie. Um, my number four is one. I don't. I don't really want to admit this. But Independence Day. Welcome to Earth. Oh, Miss punches that alien. Welcome to Earth. I am like, yeah, I are.
John Shull 57:35
I am so happy are so happy you put that on the list. I I neglected that from my top five.
Nick VinZant 57:42
Oh, it's, it's, it's worthy. It's a great line. Welcome to Earth. So
John Shull 57:49
I know that like there's there's so many that should be on the list. I know that and we'll talk about them in my honorable mention or your mention. But I have to put this on the list and I can't put it in the top two. So for my number three, I'm going with Rocky four, where Ivan Drago looks at Sylvester Stallone and goes if he dies, he dies.
Nick VinZant 58:12
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good that's that's that's that's great. Layout guys. He dies if you owe me and this guy doesn't care at all right?
John Shull 58:24
This guy's fucking robot so that's just alone stands no chance.
Nick VinZant 58:28
Shout out to Carl Weathers rip.
John Shull 58:33
Rip jobs. He
Nick VinZant 58:36
made a lot of movies though. I don't know if he was a good actor. But when he was in a movie, you were like, Okay, well, it can't be that bad. Yeah, I
John Shull 58:44
mean, it's gonna be bad. He just seemed to have career reasserted like resurgences when he needed them every time. Like, Happy Gilmore, right. I don't know what he was doing. Oh, yeah. And the midnight did kind of come back. And the 80s He did all obviously all the action movies. And then you know, I don't know what he did really in the 2000s. And then he latched on to the Star Wars universe and on Disney prime or whatever.
Nick VinZant 59:12
He came back around, he would always come back around. Um my number three I don't remember which one it is from. God. Dang it. My number three. Okay. Indiana Jones, no ticket. When he punches the guy and throws him out of the window. He's like, no ticket. No ticket. I love that. No ticket.
John Shull 59:39
Yeah, I you know, surprisingly enough. I don't have any Indiana Jones anywhere. Not even I'm an animal veteran.
Nick VinZant 59:46
That's not a movie. That's not a franchise that really had a lot of them. That's not not not a ton of them. No ticket.
John Shull 59:55
I'm gonna get tons of heat for this. But I sincerely think Think Indiana Jones is an overrated movie franchise.
Nick VinZant 1:00:05
Or it's got a lot of nostalgia they really ruined it with like anything. Aside from the first three movies, or maybe even the first two movies, I always get confused. It's Raiders of the Lost Ark. Temple of Doom and then Last Crusade? Oh,
John Shull 1:00:21
no, you're asking the wrong person.
Nick VinZant 1:00:22
Okay. All right, number two,
John Shull 1:00:25
my number two. I'll be back.
Nick VinZant 1:00:33
I personally don't have that on my top five or my honorable mention. I think that's overrated because he's not really like, he didn't just beat somebody, I think to be a truly gave, I think to be a truly great line. You would he would have had to just like, take out somebody and then say that.
John Shull 1:00:52
I think the fact that he did see, I think the opposite. I think the fact that it is said in dialogue, and it has transcended time, and people associated with an action movie in action superstar is why I put it on my number and why it's my number two.
Nick VinZant 1:01:12
My number two Princess Bride. My name is Inigo Montoya. Inigo Montoya. You killed my father Prepare to die. Yes. Agree. Like yeah, he's gonna It's time. It's time best
John Shull 1:01:25
character in that movie is Andre the Giant rip. All right, alright. Curious. I mean, there's so many for number one. I went with a bullshit number one, a conservative number one, but I feel like it has to be number one. And for me, my number one is Bond. James Bond.
Nick VinZant 1:01:49
Ah, but I don't remember when he says that he say it every movie.
John Shull 1:01:53
Yeah. And it's usually when he's, you know, obviously say introducing himself to somebody but it's usually a woman. And she was the rate before some kind of big action scene. Okay, I think Daniel Craig did it during one of the action scenes in one of the newer movies if I'm not mistaken.
Nick VinZant 1:02:12
It's pretty iconic. that the problem is it's iconic, but I don't remember exactly when he says it. That's the problem.
John Shull 1:02:20
What's your number one?
Nick VinZant 1:02:22
Predator, when Arnold Schwarzenegger throws the knife gets the guys like stick around. Oh, man. That's great. The delivery on it is great. That's what I think I think to be a truly great action line. It needs to have some corniness to it. It has to be like so bad. It's good.
John Shull 1:02:40
I mean, I just want to get to my honorable mention here, which has a couple of predator quotes in it.
Nick VinZant 1:02:45
Oh, there's ton from Okay, let's go. You do one that I'll do one that's popcorn.
John Shull 1:02:49
If it bleeds, we can kill it.
Nick VinZant 1:02:53
Predator? What is that? Bread and that's predator. Yep. I'm gonna make the argument that the single greatest action movie scene is the predator machine gun scene in the jungle.
John Shull 1:03:06
I mean, I It's good. I don't know if it's the you know, I don't know. But it's good. It's a good scene for sure.
Nick VinZant 1:03:12
Um, I ain't got time to bleed. Also from Predator. And
John Shull 1:03:17
that's a great line to man. Let's see. I'll throw this one out there because this one's you know, whatever. Asa LaVista. Baby.
Nick VinZant 1:03:27
What is that one for? That's Terminator, Terminator, Terminator. They're basically all under the Swartz Nagar he he alone as the top five of this really? If you think about it, my number one or night might not honorable mention also from a terminator. No way. I think it's Commando. let off some steam Bennett. Yeah, that's when he hits him with the pipe. Yeah, the steam comes out. Right. It's got to have a certain amount of ridiculousness of it.
John Shull 1:03:52
A personal favorite of mine. From Army of Darkness. Bruce Campbell, Michigan, suburban, native, odd. The way I see you got two things going for you. Jack and shit. And Jack just left town.
Nick VinZant 1:04:09
There's another really classic one from that one though, isn't it? It's like, good bad. I'm the guy with the gun. Yeah,
John Shull 1:04:16
yep. Good bad. And there's also shop smart shop s Mart are very blows off people's heads.
Nick VinZant 1:04:25
Oh, I don't I don't remember that one. Um, I don't know if it really fits in that thing. But it's tombstone. Doc Holliday. People think that he says I'm okay. Here's the history major. Here comes a history major. So people think that he says I'm your Huckleberry, but he actually says I'm your Huckleberry, which is what they used to call pallbearers back in the day. So if you carried somebody's casket to a funeral you were a Huckleberry. So he was actually saying, I'm your Huckleberry like, I'll take you out. Obviously wasn't saying Huckleberry Merry. He says I'm your Huckleberry not Huckleberry.
John Shull 1:05:03
Well, I'll be your Huckleberry. I'm just gonna run through a couple more of mine here. All right. All right. All right, hit it. Say hello to my little friend. Scarface. Yeah. Good. Good. Avengers Assemble. But I feel like that's kind of cheating because it's, it's not like a super thought of action line, I guess.
Nick VinZant 1:05:28
They did basically put that off for like, 20 years saying that somebody had it in their mind. Like, no, no, no. Don't say it in the first movie. Wait, like 30 more movies and men. Oh, boy.
John Shull 1:05:43
Let's see. Dead or alive. You're coming with me? Robocop?
Nick VinZant 1:05:47
Go, yeah. It has to like make not a lot of sense.
John Shull 1:05:51
And then I will and like I said, I there's I mean, there's so many but the last tool say is I feel the need the Need for Speed Top Gun. And you call that a knife? This is a knife. Ah, that's a good one. Crocodile Dundee.
Nick VinZant 1:06:09
This is an eye. Yeah, I always like that one. Okay, there's some other really popular ones that I'll just run down the list of I don't really have most of them in my honorable mention. But there's some other really popular ones. Dirty Harry. Do you feel lucky? He actually says Do I feel lucky? I thought he said do you feel lucky? But he actually says Do I feel lucky? From Dirty Harry? Let's see what else. Oh, that one's on there. If he dies he dies is a great one. If he does get away from her ubitx from aliens.
John Shull 1:06:42
Oh yeah, man. That's a great line.
Nick VinZant 1:06:47
This is Sparta from 300. But I don't know about that. Die Hard up chi EA.
John Shull 1:06:57
Yeah, I did have that on my honorable mention. I just kind of skipped over it.
Nick VinZant 1:07:02
Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. It really helps us out. And with so many good movie one liners. Let us know what you think is the best. I really think it stick around. Because it's so bad. It's good. But let us know what you think. Thanks for joining us.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
From record-setting trips across Antarctica to crossing the North Pole in middle of Arctic night, legendary Polar Explorer Borge Ousland has been exploring the coldest, most remote regions on Earth for more than 30 years. We talk Polar Exploration, dangers on the ice and the last great polar expedition. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Juices.
Borge Ousland: 01:16
Pointless: 29:29
Top 5: 53:11
Discount Code: pointless50
Nick VinZant 0:11
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode polar exploration, and juices,
Borge Ousland 0:19
sometimes, the ice opens open, you see the dark water that reminds you that you're actually skiing on top of an ocean. I've been in situations in the start when I thought that, wow, this is never going to work, then it gets completely black, completely black.
Nick VinZant 0:40
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest. He is the first person to complete a solo expedition across Antarctica. And he has also crossed the north pole in the middle of Arctic night. This is polar explorer burgade. Iceland, what is it about polar exploration? What is it about it, they call it D, it's
Borge Ousland 1:20
extremely dynamic, it's extremely fascinating. When you're out there, you have to walk across pressure ridges, sometimes the ice opens open, you see that dark water that reminds you that you're actually skiing on top of an ocean, you have polar bears lurking around and you're always drifting, you never break up in the same place. So I think is is the, you know, the dramatic landscape. And the nature that appeals to me in a way, you are totally dependent on yourself and what you have to bring with you.
Nick VinZant 1:55
I get that this is hard. Like I understand that it's hard. But I don't really understand it. Is there something that is there a way you could like put it in perspective, like, Okay, how difficult is this to kind of really travel in these places? Yeah,
Borge Ousland 2:08
like, okay, for instance, a North pole, it's from the coast to the North Pole, which is the tricks that I have done, mostly. And also I've done some crossing all over Antarctica and the Arctic. So it's 1000 kilometers, and I'm bringing everything I need for the whole journey. So my sled posted 200 pounds, I guess, to be self supplied all along the way, the under is huge pressure ridges, because the ice is moving and it's crashing together, that you have to climb across. And then dimension also the open water that is on times have to paddle or swim across. So it is extremely, extremely difficult and hard on your body. And maybe sometimes also your mind, I also have to add the extreme cold that you have, you know, down to minus 40. And to be able to master those kinds of situation, all alone by yourself for two months self supplied is a great set of satisfaction simply. But that's one of the things that appeals to me,
Nick VinZant 3:14
is it more physically or mentally demanding I think for
Borge Ousland 3:18
solo tracks up there, it's it's more mental, you are alone with all your decisions, all your various you have to be the patient than doctor in the same person. You know, you have to pull yourself up from the that hole that you sometimes fall into when you're by yourself and everything looks dark and you're afraid of being alone. And you're longing for home and you're not sure if you're going to make it or not. And then you have to try to motivate yourself, you know, to keep on going the next day and the next day and the next day. So I think it's mostly mental on solo tracks. But when that is said, the mental the solo part is also the best part of the whole whole trip when when when you are able to master it. Because you do get a totally different dialogue with yourself and the nature when there is no one else to lean on and to rely on. So it's also a kind of meditation I think, on this this trips that enables you to get closer to yourself and also closer to nature and maybe the universe.
Nick VinZant 4:28
Like I couldn't imagine being you know, no one of your trips or you're basically alone going across for what roughly 60 days. Does that wear on you? Are you like do you get sick of your just being by yourself essentially? No,
Borge Ousland 4:43
not really well. I think if you are able to make it the first couple of weeks and you get into the flow, then you doesn't really matter if the trip takes one month or three months I think You have been able to become friends with yourself and the nature and then that when you reach reach that stage in yourself, then it doesn't matter how long the trip that takes the first couple of weeks is critical. In my experience, when you come from a warm bed, you have said goodbye to your friends, and you just take the first steps out on that ice with a super heavy sled and maybe turn some kilometers or 600 miles to go, you know, those first days? That's, that's the hard part, then that's when you really, really need to dig deep.
Nick VinZant 5:38
Did you ever think about just turning right around right at the beginning? Like oh, man?
Borge Ousland 5:43
Yeah, of course. Well, in one way, yes. And also No. I've been in situations in the start when I thought that, wow, this is never going to work, you know. But at the same time, I didn't want to give up because I told everyone that I was going to ski alone to North Pole. So I couldn't just throw in the towel. But I was not able to really find a good way to continue. But what I did back then was to fool myself further, I said to myself, Okay, what what's the reality there? It's, it's not your leg that's broken. It's not your ski that's broken. It's, you know, it's this is all about feelings and feelings will change as if you gave it some time. And I said that, okay, you can give up, but not today. Tomorrow, that not today, knowing that feelings will change over time. And when tomorrow came, I said the same thing. And after a couple of weeks, I thought, Okay, well, I've been here two weeks, maybe I can continue all the way. And then I started to lift my head and think about the goal. So it's, I think it's possible to work on your feelings. Even if you are in a tight spot and think it's hopeless, that you're not going to make it it is possible to work on your feelings. What was
Nick VinZant 7:15
that, like when you saw another person after all that time?
Borge Ousland 7:18
Strange. You become a stranger to other people in a way older people becomes you don't know how to behave, it takes a while extra to know how to relate with other people's when you've been away for a long time, it is
Nick VinZant 7:35
amazing our capacity to adjust and get used to whatever situation that we're in.
Borge Ousland 7:39
So that the capacity is what makes us unique, I think,
Nick VinZant 7:44
I don't know obviously very much about the North Pole or the South Pole. But when I imagine it, like I am just imagining a long, white, flat, Tundra, well,
Borge Ousland 7:55
the South Pole is little bit like that. The South Pole has just a huge enormous ice cap basically an enormous distances, it's more or less the same every day. And that's why I also think that a big trip in Antarctica is more a mental challenge because the landscape is so monotone that on the North Pole, it's a lot more that happens. Because of the pack eyes, you know, you're actually skiing, maybe most people are not really aware that at the North Pole itself. It's for more than 40,000 meters deep ocean is just a thin layer of ice on the top there that you're skiing on top and this thin, frozen kind of pancake that is moving around and creating all this fissures and cracks and big tubers, oh of eyes because of the nervous force up there. So nurple is never never boring, or it's more like you have to watch yourself all this step along the way. But Antarctica can be a little bit more of a mental challenges because of that enormous landscape. It's so big, but even in Antarctica, you know, I'm able to penetrate that lonely landscape and I do find in the snow there is fissures and shapes in the snow. So it's still possible to penetrate that landscape and kind of become friends with Antarctica, but it takes a while
Nick VinZant 9:32
when you're in the North Pole. So like you you essentially camp for the night and then end up in a different location because the ice is moving. There always
Borge Ousland 9:39
drift somewhere in the North Pole. You're very dynamic place when a pitcher tend to have drifted from just a few 100 meters may be on a quiet night and to up to several miles. If it's a stormy night, and it's really the wind that is pushing them The ice making a drift up there. So the, you know, because all these this jagged is the pressure ridges as we call them, they stick up and they become like sails pushed with the wind and the ice starts to just drift because of the wind. So
Nick VinZant 10:19
then how do you account for that, right? Because that seems like man, you got to have every variable and figured out when you before you start, but then who knows how far you're going to drift on any given day, you'll
Borge Ousland 10:30
never know. So you just have to walk straight north because you don't know how far you're going to drift most in most cases it evens out. In the end of the day, you know, sometimes you have the drift with you other times, you're actually drifting back. And I've been in situations when I woke up after a big storm, and I drifted 20 kilometers backwards. So 15 Miles backwards. So everything I skied the day before was just last drifting packs. I thought that was a bit depressing.
Nick VinZant 11:04
Was there a few cuss words? I would imagine they were like, yeah, yeah,
Borge Ousland 11:08
but at the same time, you know, when, when the weather is bad, I'm drifting back and things like that, I actually get more motivated, because I can't I can't do anything about it, the only thing I can influence is my own performance. So actually, I get more kind of, well, this is a job, and I have to just stick it out and do my best. And that's also the, the, the kind of the mental capacity you need to bring in the front of your head. Because if we were just sitting there feeling sort of surfer yourself, you won't make it you know, an enemy can't change, it can't do anything about the weather, you only can influence your own performance.
Nick VinZant 12:00
So how much preparation goes in to an expedition like the ones that you've been on about
Borge Ousland 12:06
the year, at least at least the the long first ever expedition takes a long time to prepare, because we have to try to find the answer to how to do it, basically. And the last big trip I did was crossing the Arctic Ocean in the dark with my good friend Mike horn, from South Africa. And then, you know, nobody had done it like that. We had to find the right time of year to do it. We need to figure out how much food we were going to bring. What you know how many batteries it was renewed, most of the trip was going to be in the dark. So we needed batteries for our headlamps for two, three months. And the Yeah, lots of lots of interesting problems that we had to dive into and find solutions to so it took it took about a year to
Nick VinZant 13:05
prepare. Now why do it in the dark?
Borge Ousland 13:09
Why do it in the dark? Oh, the reason is that to start out with, we wanted really to do a classical more polar expedition, just like the old explorers did back in the days, you know, from the Golden Age and the late 1800s and early 1900s. And to go all the way from Alaska, to Norway be at the North Pole. And to do that, the only time of year you can penetrate far enough into the polar ocean by boat is in the end of the summer really kind of September. Because that's when the ice is melted enough that we're able to sail into the Arctic Ocean with a sailing ship and get onto the ice. But that also means that winter is coming. You know, winter is coming in September as well. So that little tiny window between when winter and summer. That's what we had to find. That also meant that most of this trip was going to be in the dark because the sun goes down at the North Pole 23rd of September, and then it doesn't rise again for another six months. So there were a few challenges that we had to overcome on that trip. But we managed to do it in it took us 87 days to cross the Arctic Ocean on skis in the in the winter.
Nick VinZant 14:31
Is it I've you know, I've only seen videos. Is it dark dark like okay, it's dark, or is it kind of in
Borge Ousland 14:37
the beginning when the sun goes down? It's kind of Twilight for a couple of weeks because the sun doesn't go down like an equator. It doesn't go down in the sack. It goes very slowly our long duration but when it's far enough, down there, it's done. It gets completely black, completely black, you know, when it's all overcast and your turn off your headlamp you don't see your friends sitting next to you. That's how dark it gets. But you also get care nights when you have full moon. And then you can actually see a little bit what's around you. But you'd still need the headlamp to see the fissures in the snow and all the dangers that lurks around so so you need headlines. So we were on headlines for two months on that trip, actually. And then you need a good battery system, because without headlamps, you will not survive. Yeah.
Nick VinZant 15:29
How did you bring enough batteries for that?
Borge Ousland 15:31
It's just we brought 10 kilos of batteries.
Nick VinZant 15:36
I don't know if I can quantify this right? But like when you go on one of those expeditions, like how much leeway Are you generally giving yourself in the sense that like, Okay, I've got food for 85 days. But if this last 89, I'm done somebody's
Borge Ousland 15:47
margin. And I honestly thought that the trip would take 75 days. That's why we took 85. But we we had a little bit of challenge with the weather. And we were drifting back. More than expected so. So that's why the trip actually took 87 days instead of 75. My sled broke, you know, lots of things happened. And my friend Mikey went through the ice and into the ice cold water. So that took another day. So kind of last days on a lot of different situations and ended up with the proof really pushing the envelope towards them there. So but it's barely made, it was a close call towards them there had half a litre of fuel left when we got to the boat. What
Nick VinZant 16:38
is that, like when you end the expedition and see, like, there's a finish line,
Borge Ousland 16:42
you know, we had the ship that we were skiing towards that had sailed up from Norway and into the ocean on the other side, as far into the ice that the, you know, the open water would take her. So the ship couldn't get any further north. So we had to reach a chip that was our way out to the polar ocean. And when you get closer to that goal, and it's just like, you know, everything you've dreamt of is inside that ship. And suddenly, when you reach it, there is nothing more to long for. So it's it's a big, big paradox, I feel to reach a goal like that and that everything is within reach. You can you can eat as much as you want. You can take that shower you have been longing for and there is a bed and it's a huge paradox. It's very, very strange to reach that goals that go on a big trip like that.
Nick VinZant 17:38
Does it make regular life boring Val in any way? Right. Like on Tuesday, I was up here at the North Pole tracking across moving ice. And now it's Thursday, and I got to do taxes?
Borge Ousland 17:50
No, I don't think so. But some I heard some other kind of colleagues of mine, thinking those lines or ways. But I don't do that. I think it's also because I'm I feel privileged. I feel so privileged that I have my family and my friends and everything around me. And no one no one can kind of be in the moment all the time. And you can't expect that. So that is why it's so important to break off sometimes and just go out into the nature.
Nick VinZant 18:25
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions for North Pole or South Pole? Which one's your favorite?
Borge Ousland 18:31
I would say the North Pole simply because it's all dynamic. Yeah. And also that's where I've done my I think my my biggest expeditions, so definitely the North Pole. Yeah. It's more things happening at what
Nick VinZant 18:48
food did you crave the most while traveling for
Borge Ousland 18:52
Yeah, it's you are you get so hungry on those big trips out there and you crave for anything with fat inside. So big American pig pancakes with blueberry jam and maple syrup. Sour cream? Bacon. Yeah. On the side that goes down. And that's something you dream about. After
Nick VinZant 19:17
going on an expedition for almost 90 days with somebody, do you feel like you've heard everything that person has to say? Yeah, in a way. What would you what was your scariest experience out there?
Borge Ousland 19:31
That's connected with the water going through the water or truthin ice and into the water on the north pole that's happened one time all the way and several times on their basis. And if it's minus 40 you don't have much time before you get to week to get up again and almost All the big accidents at the North Pole, as you know, fatal accidents where people die has been in connection with with tinnitus and water when
Nick VinZant 20:08
when those kinds of incidents have happened, and it right like, is it usually somebody wasn't prepared or because they like they just got unlucky?
Borge Ousland 20:19
No I was speaking for myself, you know you get tired on there can be snow covering some of these traps that show you don't see them the you know, accidents just just happens. But also maybe it can also happen because you take too big risks, which is always a balance, you can't reach normal without taking some risk. And you have to find that fine balance between what risk is acceptable and what is too much. And when you're solo, you don't have no one else, you know, to guide you to say, okay, stop, this is too dangerous. So, so you really have to. So that's that's also why it's so dangerous to be alone, because you get a little bit sloppy, and it's into the routine. And then one day you take that risk that is too big. And then maybe that's it. So that's always kind of a battle in your head. But you probably don't know that my profession back in the days I was a deep sea diver in the oil industry. And what I learned, I did that for 10 years. And you know, with saturation diving as it's cold and diving down to one Towson feats, and super deep and in the dark, and lots of accidents. But what we knew who worked down there in the dark in these oil fields was that the only one you really can trust is yourself. So I always looked upon safety as a personal responsibility. And that I took that, you know, attitude with me into the expeditions. And I think the secret is to be that little step ahead your head of yourself all the time, try to understand what is happening before it happens. And And if something goes wrong, you have trained for it, I train, I'm going I'm going out on thin ice, and I'm going through ice denies deliberately back home here in Norway just to find out the right techniques to get up again. So you have to be able to go into a dangerous situation and do it in a safe way. By training. That's my philosophy.
Nick VinZant 22:39
Is there any kind of forgiveness? I guess, in those kinds of places? Is there any kind of like, okay, you can make a little mistake and you can get away with it or like you can't mess up at all here. No,
Borge Ousland 22:51
especially not on solo expeditions. When you're with other people, you you, you know, you will normally have an extra helping hand to pull the up but not on solo expedition, then you have one chance to get up before your hands and legs are losing power. And you can just lie there. Hope you have a good life and take back. But that's it.
Nick VinZant 23:21
That's that's the height of pressure, right? Like, I've got one chance to get out of this. And if I don't, I'm done. That's it. Do you think that the poles could become like Everest in the sense that there could be kind of an over commercialization of them at all? Yeah,
Borge Ousland 23:37
it's actually turning like that. Turning into that. Especially in Antarctica, there's quite a lot of skiers and and people flying into the salt boulders just to be there. So that has really, really changed compared to when I did my first expedition up there in 1990. North polls just mentally just super super far away and nobody went there. But now it's actually possible to go to both polls and drink a glass of champagne and go back home. So the same thing is happening.
Nick VinZant 24:14
Do you want like a bit of time since you've been back since it was first expeditions like can you see changes?
Borge Ousland 24:19
Yeah, definitely. It's a huge it's a huge chain change compared to you know, when I did the first expeditions in the early 90s. The ice was treated for meter tick. Now it's one to two meter and the also the coverage is about 30% less. So actually out on the north pole that is where you are physically seeing the result of climate change. So it's really just a totally different landscape. Compared to Turkey 40 years ago,
Nick VinZant 24:53
any other big expedition, do you think you got any really big ones left? Well,
Borge Ousland 24:58
for me I'm doing a project called Ice legacy, doing it together with a friend of mine called Vincent courtyard. And we're crossing the biggest icecaps in the world to sort of try to, to tell what is happening with this huge pieces of ice. So that's what we're doing trying to cross the 20 biggest ice caps. So the next goal will most likely be Juneau icefield. In Alaska. Not too far from you guys.
Nick VinZant 25:35
Is there kind of a holy grail of polar exploration left? Is there something that like this is somebody does this, this is going to be big? Yeah,
Borge Ousland 25:44
there is there is not many left, since I've been fortunate enough to pull off most of them. But are a few of them. But there is one left and that is to ski to the South Pole during wintertime. That has been tried, but no one has succeeded. So So that's, that's up for grabs, if anyone wants to have a go,
Nick VinZant 26:08
Is that Is that something though? That like, okay, that's doable. Or like, you could do this, but I don't think you're coming back.
Borge Ousland 26:18
It I think it's doable, but it's extremely difficult. But as the knowledge kind of increases, the equipment gets better. But you can imagine that in the winter, on this plateau, it's down to minus 60 degrees Celsius, and you have strong wind. In addition, I think you would have to ski Mullis inside the box to be able to survive up there. But I think it's possible. But I'm not going to try it. I will leave that to someone coming behind me.
Nick VinZant 26:52
That's pretty much all the questions that we have. Is there anything that you think that we missed? Or? What's kind of coming up next for you? How can people learn more?
Borge Ousland 27:00
Yeah, no, I think you we covered quite a lot. This nice talk that we have thank you very, very much. Well, the place if people want to see more what we're doing the website called our slammed dots calm, or we SLA indeed.com. So that's, that's one place that people can have a look, or my Instagram
Nick VinZant 27:27
profiles. I want to thank Borges so much for joining us and apologize for probably mispronouncing his name, I did the best that I could. But if you want to connect with him and learn more about his expeditions, we have linked to him on our social media accounts. We're Profoundly Pointless on tick tock, Instagram, and YouTube. And we've also included his information in the episode description. If you want to see more of his expeditions. The YouTube version of this interview will be live on February 1 at 12:30pm Pacific. So real quick, I want to take a moment and thank one of the sponsors of our show factor factor has ready to eat meal delivery service that takes the stress out of meal planning and sets you up for success in the new year. I just got to delivery at my house. And it is awesome. It looks good. It tastes good. It's healthy. It's a great way to start the new year. And it's cheaper than getting takeout. It's much healthier. And it's way, way easier. Because you don't have to cook it at all. All you've got to do is just pop it in the oven in the microwave, and then in two minutes, it is ready to go. Like I mentioned they are delicious. And there's so many different options, keto calorie, smart, vegan, veggie, all kinds of different options. And right now they are offering a special discount, you can get 50% off, all you've got to do is head to factor meals.com/pointless 50 and enter the code pointless 50 to get 50% off, that's code pointless 50 at factor meals.com/pointless 50. I know that's a lot to remember. So there's a link in the description that includes those codes. They're great. It's really good. It's really good. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw, and get to the pointless part of this show. What is the most amount of time that you have ever spent alone? Completely alone, not talking to anybody not texting, without
John Shull 29:42
like communicating at all that's including texts everything.
Nick VinZant 29:45
Not talking to another person in any way.
John Shull 29:49
You know, I don't know. Maybe an hour or two maybe. Oh, that's it. Even when I was alone in Orlando, like when I lived alone, I wasn't dating somebody I was still texting people usually.
Nick VinZant 30:03
I mean a reason at first glance, I'm like, wait a minute. No, you that's, that's, that's a hard not very much time. But then now that I think about it, it's not more than a couple of hours. Maybe. Yeah, it's not more than a couple of hours. For me.
John Shull 30:19
It's, it's kind of wild when you really think about how on alone. And now connected we are even if you say you're not connected, I still feel like you're connected.
Nick VinZant 30:31
Even when I would say like the loneliest part of my life, which is my first real job when I moved to a different city after graduating college, and didn't really have any friends. I don't even then probably not more than maybe like, eight hours. Because I would go to the gym, come home to my apartment, and basically just be there until the next day when I went like grocery shopping or back to the gym.
John Shull 30:56
Yeah, but were you really alone? Were you not messaging? Anybody? Your family, a friend? An acquaintance, we'll call them,
Nick VinZant 31:07
um, may be to how do you handle being alone? Do you feel like you handle being alone? Well, or do you kind of go crazy. It's
John Shull 31:15
funny that you say that. Back in the day, I loved it. I love to being alone. I love the alone time. I love doing what I wanted. Now, and you get this and maybe others out there that are listening this as well. Having children has completely changed the game for me if I have, you know, if the wife says, Hey, I'm going out, you know, I put the kids down, I have maybe four or five hours to myself, I sit around, wondering what I can do. And then by the time I finally get around to doing something, whether it's for myself or whatever, she's back home, like so I just waste the time thinking about what to do.
Nick VinZant 31:49
There is something that changes, I feel like once you have killed kids, that you just are always busy. You always have to feel like you're doing something and for people who are like looking at their parents and like why are they always doing something like it just gets in you and you can't ever just sit?
John Shull 32:06
Yeah, it's I mean, even right now recording this, I want to get up and just start cleaning something.
Nick VinZant 32:10
Well, I mean, it needs to by the look of your house behind you, I actually pulled the audience. Same question. What is the longest you have ever been totally alone? 18% safe a few hours? 25%? Say one day 42% say a week or less? But I don't know. I feel like that's pretty high. I wonder if they're really thinking about in terms of like No, no, not talking to anybody. And then 13% say more than a week. And usually they specified it in comments saying stuff like I got injured and I couldn't leave my house. Or there's some extenuating circumstances. But
John Shull 32:48
did you put in the question being on your phone means you're not alone.
Nick VinZant 32:52
I did put no contact in person or electronically with another person. But I don't know how much people really thought that through.
John Shull 33:01
And some people, the majority of the voters say, a week or less I call shenanigans on that.
Nick VinZant 33:08
Yeah. Well, I mean, that could be two days, I could see a weekend I could see people going a weekend without dealing with anybody. Maybe you went camping by yourself or something like that. But even then you walk past somebody. Yeah, I would say most people, it's only a few hours if you really thought about it.
John Shull 33:27
I'm not even sure if I was to like barricade myself in my house. Without my family if I'd be able to go a couple hours without communicating with anybody.
Nick VinZant 33:38
Oh, yeah, it'd be tough. People need people, man. Some people don't. But I think people need people. The other question that I had for you, so obviously the Superbowl is coming up. We have the Chiefs against the San Francisco 40 Niners. So how long into the broadcast once the game starts? How quickly after the game starts? Do we hear Taylor Swift name mentioned or shown?
John Shull 34:04
I really don't want to answer this because I don't I don't give a fuck about the Superbowl. I'm a Lions fan. And anyone that follows American football will understand why I don't care at all now, but to answer your question and be a team player. I think she will be mentioned at least 10 minutes before kickoff. And I think the first time Travis Kelce is involved at all, even if he has a block even if he you know they're they'll say Travis Kelce. And oh, here's Taylor Swift. So, if Kansas City goes on offense first, it'll be within five minutes.
Nick VinZant 34:38
Oh, I think it's within the first minute. I think it's within the first minute of kickoff probably being shown in the national anthem, Anthem, but anthem, but I don't think that counts. My guess. put a number on it. Put a time on it. I'm gonna say within the first minute.
John Shull 34:56
I'll say within the first four minutes
Nick VinZant 34:59
okay. Okay. I also think that if she goes, this is the, this is the end of both her Travis Kelce. And the chiefs in America's mind, we're going to be completely sick of it, it's going to be so oversaturated that we'll be completely sick of it. If she's at the Super Bowl. Well,
John Shull 35:17
we just better hope that they never break up. Because imagine the coverage of that. Oh
Nick VinZant 35:23
my god. This is why people dislike the media, like, you don't want to hear these things, but they force it down their throat, okay? Anyway, there's my rant about the Superbowl. Well,
John Shull 35:32
it's forced down your throat because people tune in.
Nick VinZant 35:36
Don't, okay, you and I, you still work in the media. I used to work in the media. So I feel like I can speak more freely about this. I don't think that people really care that much. I think the media covers something over and over and over and over and over and over again, until eventually you finally start wondering about it. Like you don't really care, they make you care.
John Shull 35:56
I mean, I think that's documented in some cases. I mean, the NFL cares, really. So they're gonna make all of their broadcasts with her that if she's there, they're going to make it a point. Because that's how they retain some of a demographic that they have never hit before. I mean, it's just yeah, so at the end, it all comes down to advertising dollars, right.
Nick VinZant 36:18
So money,
John Shull 36:20
I didn't call money, I did see something that she's like playing the night before in Japan, and then has to catch a flight to Vegas, and she'll get there maybe like six hours to spare if she leaves literally right after a concert or something.
Nick VinZant 36:34
This is why I think that if her PR people are really like into they will not go to the Super Bowl because I think it will be just complete oversaturation. And we'll be sick of her will be sick of the calcium. We'll be seeing the Chiefs we'll be taking all of that stuff. We're already over it.
John Shull 36:55
I mean, once again, we are but the young girls that now watch football or watch the Chiefs game is because of her aren't. The moms with those girls aren't even adult women aren't? Maybe some men aren't. I have no idea. Anyway. Okay. All right. Let's get to some people that actually matter here. Let's give some shout outs. Let's see, we'll start with coal Rafferty, like that first name of coal.
Nick VinZant 37:16
Yeah, it's one of those limited names. Yeah, because there's not a lot of them. It's okay.
John Shull 37:21
Just sounds bad as like, here's coal. Coal is gonna whip your ass. Anyways, Kevin Parra, Jeff Harris. Ryan and Gwen Parker Wulan. Whoever. I'm sure I must have good one puts her that last name, but it sounds Yeah, sounds right.
Unknown Speaker 37:38
It's pretty good chance.
John Shull 37:39
Dustin Oliver. Davis fry off. Austin, wicky, bone loopholed. keygen grant. And we're going to end with a little bit of alliteration here. Mark Mayhew.
Nick VinZant 37:56
Is Mark Mayhew a famous person that seems that sounds like a famous person's name.
John Shull 38:00
Maybe I'm not I'm not entirely sure. Okay.
Nick VinZant 38:03
All right. Good, Tom.
John Shull 38:04
Are we doing? Yeah,
Nick VinZant 38:07
see, oh, it's three weeks in a row. You were a little Okay. All right. Oh, no, I was enjoy it while I
John Shull 38:12
was talking. Are we doing that first or CO TM first?
Nick VinZant 38:16
It's not candled. The month this episode goes out on a Wednesday, which is January 31. So it is not a new month?
John Shull 38:22
God damn it. I thought. Okay, that's fine. We'll just push the next week.
Nick VinZant 38:27
You gotta wait. I'm sorry.
John Shull 38:29
I've done this. I get so excited that I forget that there's 31 days and months sometimes. All right, fine. Do
Nick VinZant 38:35
the knuckle trick. Don't you know the knuckle trick?
John Shull 38:39
No, I don't know the knuckle trick. The
Nick VinZant 38:41
knuckle trick. If it's on a knuckle, it's got 31 days. So you start on January and the knuckle? Then you go in between? And it's February then March is a knuckle that's 31. April, May, June, July. So if it's a knuckle, it's got 31 days.
John Shull 38:57
When you think that someone discovered that or came up with that, do you think they were like, wow, I am the smartest person alive.
Nick VinZant 39:06
I mean, I don't know if they thought that they were the smartest person alive. But I think that that was a pretty good way to teach it. My wife is a teacher we had this conversation while high the other day. And that I don't think that we give teachers enough credit because of how hard it is to teach someone how to do something as a parent, you know, that like teaching someone like how do you do this? And I think that people who aren't educators think that like oh, you just tell them that. But like, no, it's really complicated. Like how do you do this? We'll go left? Well, I don't know how to like, Well, how do you shift your body weight? Like explain that to a five year old teachers need more credit is my bottom line. It's hard to teach people things.
John Shull 39:39
I'm paying more money. Pay him. I'm all about it. Someday when you and I run for presidency. You can be my vice president. We'll make sure that happens. I'd
Nick VinZant 39:49
be your vice president. If you were the vice president. Any Vice President, would you secretly be wishing for something to happen to the President even briefly so that you can say that your press Isn't it at that moment? If I if somebody ever asked me to be Vice President, I'd be like, I'll do it. But only if you promise that you're going to go under anesthesia at some point. So I can be president for like, 20 minutes.
John Shull 40:11
Like, it's, that would be my contract or whatever. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 40:15
I would feel like that would have to be some kind of agreement.
John Shull 40:19
I'm not gonna lie to you just the thought of having to campaign as a vice president. Sounds terrible, cuz you get no recognition. No one really cares about you. But yet, you're expected to perform all the duties.
Nick VinZant 40:31
Yeah, you gotta be ready. But you don't have any of that big pressure. It's nobody's like, where's the where's the vice president? Like, don't worry about it. Like, we really don't worry that much about the Vice President, which is kind of crazy. We don't Yeah. No idea where they are right now. No clue.
John Shull 40:48
Anyways, all right, let's, it's funny that we'll do the if you haven't listened last couple episodes, I came up with this brilliant idea, basically, to have 10 topics. And Nick just reacts, whether it's hopefully just a word, but sometimes it's more than that. So anyways, randomly enough, the first one that I wrote down is kind of along the Superbowl lines. And what do you think the average ticket price as of this recording is? For the Super Bowl?
Nick VinZant 41:17
It's in Vegas, right? Yes. $2,000 times that by 510 $1,000. To go to the Super Bowl for
John Shull 41:30
an average ticket, according to tick pick, like that's not even. I'm assuming that's not a great seat. That's not a premium seat. That's just an OKC.
Nick VinZant 41:41
I don't, okay. I've worked in a television market as a news reporter, where they had the Super Bowl. It's pretty overrated. It's one of those things that I think it would be fun if you had a lot of money, where you can just go and do whatever you want. Otherwise, it looks like it'd be a massive pain in the ass. Probably not that fun. I wouldn't put $10,000 for that. No way.
John Shull 42:04
I mean, from a media point of view, because I was planning on sending a crew to the Superbowl. You know, they I think what a lot of people think it's because you're in the media, you get all these privileges at these things. We had what we would have have one on field pass for one person at a time. Everyone else had to go into a watch room in the basement. Like you don't even get to enjoy the game. No,
Nick VinZant 42:28
that's one of the things that I would say as a former reporter is like you get to do all these things. But it's like you're not really there. Yeah, like, it's not like you're enjoying it. You're there to work. It's like bad grade 10,000 bucks. That's crazy. Does that a record?
John Shull 42:45
I think I mean, it didn't say it, but I'm sure I'm sure it would for an average ticket. Which is surprising to me, because both these teams are known and they're established franchises. But, I mean, the matchup isn't I mean, Patrick mahomes versus Brock Purdy. I mean,
Nick VinZant 43:00
oh, I don't really I'm not really interested in it. I would have been interested in anything else.
John Shull 43:04
Okay. All right. Donald Duck.
Nick VinZant 43:13
I don't care about Donald Duck. kind of annoyed me. These always annoyed me. All right. I've been annoyed by Donald Duck.
John Shull 43:22
All right. checkbooks?
Nick VinZant 43:27
I don't even do you remember learning how to balance your checkbook. That was a thing that I learned in high school is how to balance a checkbook. And now I don't even remember how to write a check.
John Shull 43:38
I mean, I wrote a check the other day.
Nick VinZant 43:41
Yeah, but I've probably written maybe two or three a year, maybe two or three checks, right a year. Only if they're like, it's 3% to pay on cash or pay with a credit card. Right, you fucking check and you got to figure out what to do with it. All
John Shull 43:56
right, a Armadillo what the armadillos
Nick VinZant 44:01
know as a sweet animal. That's an animal that you like to think about, but never actually want to see I've seen an armadillo because I used to live in Kansas. And sometimes you'll see him on the side of the road. They're like they're kind of like a gross nasty looking animal. But and cartoons and stuff like that. It seems pretty cool. Like I can just ball up and roll away. Better Imagine then seen.
John Shull 44:23
Doping bans doping bans and the Olympic Games.
Nick VinZant 44:29
Oh, just a waste of time for everybody. Right? I don't put I don't put any hate on any of the people who are in the Olympics. But every single one of them is probably taking something and I don't know, believe believe than any of them or not. And I would absolutely do the same thing. It seems like a total waste of time.
John Shull 44:42
And it always seems like it's the you know, gymnasts or the ice skaters like it's never like the power lifters or the you know, the people that are steering the loser or anything. It's always like the sports that are like finesse sports.
Nick VinZant 44:57
I think they really have To be egregious to get caught at this point, like you've got to really be egregious to get caught. But I think every single one of them is doing it and I don't blame them whatsoever. All
John Shull 45:10
right, record players.
Nick VinZant 45:14
I don't know if I've ever even seen one besides the snobby one that you have in your house, which you bought to make look like wood because you're a snob.
John Shull 45:22
Well, your memory, that's not the truth, but whatever. What What's your first kind of player that you remember having like a cassette player, a Walkman
Nick VinZant 45:30
cassette player, I remember having a cassette player that was in the basement, and like it was one of those it was front facing. So you pop that out, and you put it in and you play it like that. I don't think we ever had a record player in our house.
John Shull 45:43
Sure you did. I'm just sure your mom and dad kept it from you, because you probably would have destroyed it.
Nick VinZant 45:47
I probably would have wrecked it a little bit. Maybe it was like in the basement and reused. We weren't a musical family.
John Shull 45:53
I mean, anyways, spoons.
Nick VinZant 45:58
I don't really know how much you know what I think this is my thought on spoons, I think that we can really get rid of one of the utensils that we have. If we want to really reduce waste we can get rid of one of the three utensils. We don't need a fork knife and a spoon. We can either combine something or make do without one of them. But we don't need three utensils anymore. We don't need it. Combine it or get rid of one.
John Shull 46:21
I mean really whoever created this fork is legendary revolutionary even one
Nick VinZant 46:27
of the best inventions of all time if you think about it
John Shull 46:33
all right. sidewalk chalk.
Nick VinZant 46:38
Oh, just a great time. Just a great time. Right. Endlessly entertaining for little children. Nice for people to walk by and see. It's impressive. I like sidewalk chalk I have no problems with it.
John Shull 46:49
Christina Ricci Who is she? Oh god I mean she was a casper that the movie Casper she was the main love interest of the Casper the ghost thing she was also wins Wednesday Addams in the Addams Family.
Nick VinZant 47:06
Okay, I get her confused with Anna Paquin. Cara del Vini something there's a new one like Jenny Ortega. That all kind of have that similar kind of like, dark, brooding kind of look to them. I don't know. That's not Oh, boy scripture. I know what I'm talking about. Sure. They all have that kind of like Wednesday, Adams appeal to them. Okay, but I don't know. I don't know which one she is.
John Shull 47:36
Well, that was a terrible. I mean, Christina Ricci she's, I would go on a limb and say of our childhood, so kids that were born, you know, mid 80s to the early 2000s. I mean, I feel like she's one of the actresses that you have to know of.
Nick VinZant 47:53
Which one What did she What was she in? I can't think of any movies.
John Shull 47:58
I just gave you two examples. Casper in the Addams Family.
Nick VinZant 48:04
Yeah, but I feel like when you're in the Addams Family, you're just Wednesday, Adams like they just make you look like that. You don't really look like that. So they all run together in my mind.
John Shull 48:12
Okay. All right. Well, this isn't gonna go anywhere.
Nick VinZant 48:15
I'm sorry. I don't know who she is. I don't have a detailed Wikipedia bio. Right? Like I don't have a baseball trading card.
John Shull 48:23
Think she has a baseball trading card.
Nick VinZant 48:25
Let's say you have actors trading cards. They have trading cards for actors. They do. They keep man you knew that too. You've looked at them. Do you have some?
John Shull 48:35
Ah, yeah. I mean, not anything crazy. But
Nick VinZant 48:40
wait a minute. Wait a minute. Oh, that's her. See that, to me looks exactly like the other people that did it like so I get him confused. You have how many actors trading cards do you have?
John Shull 48:51
Um, I don't know. Probably less than 50. It's, it's a personal collection. So it's not like I have a lot but I have bought some of them. Okay, well, who
Nick VinZant 49:02
do you got? Who's your best car?
John Shull 49:06
I have a Nicholas Cage autograph.
Nick VinZant 49:11
Wait, wait, did he autographed the card? Or did you buy it? And it came autographed? No.
John Shull 49:16
I mean, I went on eBay and I bought an autographed Nicholas Cage card.
Nick VinZant 49:21
How much did you pay for?
John Shull 49:23
Less than 50? I think it's between 50 and 100. By the time was that in doubt? I don't remember.
Nick VinZant 49:28
Oh, see? See, this is what this is what happens. You're trying to kind of divert you don't really want to say the truth like oh, well less than 50 actually was 50 to 100. So it was $99 Why don't we just skip all this and get to the truth. How many actor movie trading cards do you have?
John Shull 49:48
I mean, less than 50 is probably less than 40. To be honest. I only got into because a buddy of mine. Collect certain cards by by cops a certain series see that there's a lot of autographed cards from like, pop stars in old, you know, there's different eras of celebrity. And I was like, that's pretty cool. Look, I'd like to have a Gordon Ramsay autograph card. Like, that's kind of dope.
Nick VinZant 50:18
That's something that like, if somebody asked if somebody was giving that away for free, I would be like, No. I'm just gonna throw this in the trash two steps after I walk past you. I mean, like, I would never even think of like collecting. Okay, who else do you have you gotten Nicolas Cage? Give me your top three. Just give me your top three.
John Shull 50:36
Oh, man. Well, so the other thing is a lot of mine are dual. So like, I have, like a John Cena card. Like an autograph. Where he's just in regular street clothes. So it's not a wrestling card. But it's not like an average purchase kind of in the middle.
Nick VinZant 51:00
Yeah, they can make multiple we can be buying on multiple fronts. Okay, all right. Yeah,
John Shull 51:05
I will say my, probably my my favorite card. I wish I had it. It's not an autograph, but it's a Bernie Sanders card. It's probably one of my favorite celebrity cards. If you remember Bernie.
Nick VinZant 51:20
Yeah, I don't know. It's still alive. You mean Bernie Sanders the Senator. Right?
John Shull 51:24
Yeah. Well, I mean, he's like, you know, he's like the vice president. He was here now. Where is he? Whereas Bernie?
Nick VinZant 51:30
No, one idea. I like you think that you should? How interesting that you have act. Do you have any other kind of collectibles?
John Shull 51:37
You don't really care. You're setting me up to make fun of me. I'm
Nick VinZant 51:40
not me. I'm fascinated by this. This is one of the I gave every once in a while I learned something new.
John Shull 51:45
Yeah, I mean, I collect your trading cards. I collect. Yeah, I collect wrestling figures. I collect trading cards. I collect figurines. I also keep a journal too. If you really want to know,
Nick VinZant 51:59
I keep a journal. I write it almost every day or try to I keep a little journal. I jot down something about that day. And I think that now is also the point of the show where I would like to remind viewers that John has two children. He has in fact had sex with a woman at least twice.
John Shull 52:16
Good. Yeah, buddy. Okay, I mean, you like anime? Right? You collect comic books? No, I don't have you if you out there could only see the look. I'm giving Nick.
Nick VinZant 52:27
I don't I don't I don't collect them. I don't I watch it when it's on there. I watch some but I don't collect something of it. I don't collect anything.
John Shull 52:37
By the way. I'm not I'm just checks. Oh boy. I'm not picking my anime folks. By the way, that wasn't a criticism. There's
Nick VinZant 52:44
different levels of anime. There's like anime like One Piece Dragon Ball and then there's like anime like, man, you get into some anime.
John Shull 52:52
There's different levels of it. So know what you're referring to.
Nick VinZant 52:55
I don't collect anything. Well, maybe
John Shull 52:57
you should never have. Maybe you should. You never did. Pogs you never did cards when you were a kid?
Nick VinZant 53:03
Nothing. I've never collected anything. That's it. I don't have Oh. Yeah. All right. So our top five is top five juicers. What's your number five.
John Shull 53:16
So So there's four that are pretty standard. I feel like you have the four that have to be on the list five is the wildcard.
Nick VinZant 53:27
Hmm. I'm not entirely I don't know if I agree with you. I actually only think that two are the dominant juices. Okay, then you kind of have to put on there. Otherwise, it's kind of all over the place. All right, I would say only two.
John Shull 53:41
Let's dive in here. My number five is grape juice.
Nick VinZant 53:47
Okay, I have grape juice a little bit higher, a little bit higher, but it's also a specific kind of grape juice. I would say that personally, I don't enjoy plain grape juice. I would never like I don't want that.
John Shull 54:00
I don't know if I've ever actually had real grape juice. I've had Welch's grape
Nick VinZant 54:05
juice. Yeah, that's the thing. I like grape flavor. I don't really particularly enjoy grape juice. I don't really like any juice to be honest with you. I think all juice is a waste of time.
John Shull 54:15
Why are we doing this top five then?
Nick VinZant 54:18
I don't know seemed like an interesting one. Like I've had juices before. I'd like to talk about juice. I love talking about things like this. I just don't think that juice is good at all. To me. All juice is a waste of time.
John Shull 54:30
Just get down to it. Don't give you the juice. Right.
Nick VinZant 54:35
Give me Why Why don't I just eat the food. rather have that. So my number five is watermelon. I've only had watermelon juice one time but it changed my life. It was amazing.
John Shull 54:48
I just thought watermelon juice was just water.
Nick VinZant 54:50
Yeah, it is it's basically like slightly flavored water. That's incredibly it's incredibly refreshing. It was amazing. So but it's hard. To get it's hard to get my
John Shull 55:02
number four is tomato juice.
Nick VinZant 55:06
I can see it being a top juice but I find it to be disgusting.
John Shull 55:10
Tomato was one of those juices to me that you kind of have to mix it with a really strong something else for it to taste good. But in saying that there have been times where I've just chugged V eight by itself.
Nick VinZant 55:25
I could never do that. I actually hate tomato by itself. I like tomato products like ketchup and things like that. But tomato itself to me is disgusting. Like I would never just you want to eat this tomato like no. Yeah,
John Shull 55:39
cherry tomatoes. I can eat like that. But you know, the big the bigger kind of tomato is like a steak tomato. Yeah, not happening.
Nick VinZant 55:46
Mm hmm. Also, I was at a restaurant today. I was at a restaurant this weekend. And I bought a burger. It was $20 it was worth it. My wife wanted to go was for her birthday we went to a nicer place was a $20 burger. I dropped the tomato on the floor. Picked it up, put it back on the burger and ate it.
John Shull 56:11
Okay, I need you to set the scene here. Are we at like a fancy restaurant like wherever people saw you dropped the tomato.
Nick VinZant 56:19
Nobody would have seen me. But I think that was more based upon the location. It was, I would say on a scale of like one to five with five being really nice and one being like, below fast food like oh, I don't know about that place. They brought out when you order water, and you get water. They bring out a plate that had various different fruits that you could put into the water. I had never seen that before. But it was a $20 burger in Seattle. So that's probably like maybe 15 $17 anywhere else.
John Shull 56:54
Okay, all right. What what what kind of what's the flavor? What's the temperature you like for your burger? Meet
Nick VinZant 57:00
him or her? But I ordered a medium rare to try to get it rare.
John Shull 57:05
Okay, that's that's a different take. I guess.
Nick VinZant 57:10
That's the one thing that I remember learning from my grandpa. The first thing is like whatever you want order something slightly below or slightly above to get it where you actually want it. But it was cooked properly as well cooked. I even complimented the chef, not the chef but the waiter. Like that's well cooked.
John Shull 57:27
Did you have a dessert? Yeah. Did what was for dessert. Now?
Nick VinZant 57:31
I didn't. I didn't I thought about it though. All right.
John Shull 57:36
Okay, are we Oh my It's uh, you were
Nick VinZant 57:38
motion number four tomato. Yeah. Anyway, would you have eaten the flute food off the floor? Would you have eaten it off the floor? My wife was horrified. But I was like, it's fine. And their sauce on it. That looks good. So I want that. Yeah,
John Shull 57:49
absolutely. I'll eat shit off the floor. Of course.
Nick VinZant 57:53
Yeah, okay. I don't know if it's disingenuous or disingenuous. But anyway, my number four is apple. It's not good. It's not really that great. Everybody makes a big deal about Apple. Like, it's great, but it's not. It's okay. Okay. When the kid because everything else is it's cheap. Otherwise, it's not that great.
John Shull 58:11
I think that's too low on the top five list for apple juice. But
Nick VinZant 58:17
it's overrated. I know. It's ubiquitous, and a very prominent, but it's not that great. It's
John Shull 58:24
I mean, but it's a staple of the juice family it deserves. I mean, anyways, we'll get we'll get assigned.
Nick VinZant 58:31
It's good. It doesn't mean it's good. Okay. My
John Shull 58:33
number three is cranberry juice.
Nick VinZant 58:37
I feel the same way about cranberry juice as I do about apple juice. It's like, Would you really like cranberry juice? Like, oh, that was refreshing. That was so good. I needed that.
John Shull 58:50
I mean, I think so I like it. And it's one of the better juices for your body in terms of what it can do for your gastrointestinal tract.
Nick VinZant 59:02
Also a great line from departed. That's what I essentially remember about cranberry juice is the movie departed. Look it up if you want to. My number three is a specific kind of juice. It's white grape. I don't like grape juice, but white grape juice was like, wow, this is good. Okay. Okay. It doesn't have as much punch to it. It's more it's a smoother. It's like if you mixed kind of apple and grape juice. Like oh, that's okay. Okay. All right. What's your number? What's your number two?
John Shull 59:33
Orange juice.
Nick VinZant 59:36
Your number two is orange juice.
John Shull 59:38
Yeah,
Nick VinZant 59:39
interesting.
John Shull 59:40
Yeah, I mean, okay. My one and two are are pretty that can be interchangeable. But yeah. Orange juice is fine, but I can only drink orange juice. You know, during the morning. I never drink it in the afternoon. I'd never drink at night. It's just it's definitely it's a morning juice. Right. But it's I think that's what keeps it at number two for me is it's not as versatile as my number one.
Nick VinZant 1:00:03
That actually makes a lot of sense. I would completely disagree. I was completely disagreeing with you going into that. But now that you mentioned it, I was like, okay, I can understand that. My number two is the only juice that I actually think is good. Besides watermelon juice is pineapple juice. That's, that's great. That's amazing. Yeah,
John Shull 1:00:23
I mean, it's good. Just you don't have it enough, right? I mean, I'm not buying pineapples every week. But I mean, to be honest, are you get those little fruit cups from like, $1 or whatever, or whoever makes them. And pineapple is definitely one of the fruits where I'm like, can't wait to eat all the fruit than just drink the high fructose corn syrup. Pineapple juice.
Nick VinZant 1:00:43
Pineapple juice is actually really that's like I said, I think pineapple juice is really the only good juice, right? Oh, that's good. The others are like, Oh, okay, I guess I'll have some shoes.
John Shull 1:00:55
I mean, I don't know that. My number one. Apple juice. Okay,
Nick VinZant 1:01:00
my number one is orange juice. Okay, I could see those being switched. But I You did convince me with your logic about like, orange juice is only for the mornings.
John Shull 1:01:10
And, you know, it's super hot outside. I remember having some orange or apple juice back in the day. And just remember thinking like, This is damn refreshing. Don't spill it on yourself. Because answer will be there in a minute. But it's refreshing. It's good. Can you how
Nick VinZant 1:01:27
often when you drink something? Do you spill it on yourself? Out of every 10 times you drink something? How often do you spill it on yourself?
John Shull 1:01:34
Drinking? Never. But eating is a different story.
Nick VinZant 1:01:40
Okay, out of every 10 times you eat something how, how often are you going to get something on your shirt?
John Shull 1:01:47
With four or five times that it's in?
Nick VinZant 1:01:48
It's a little high. What do you do it?
John Shull 1:01:51
I mean, there are times where I'll like be eating cereal. And I'm not at the table like I'm sitting on the couch or something. And I'll, you know, I'll go to take the first spoonful and the milk will get like on my chin or shirt and I'll be like, Okay, that's just the first spoonful that go back to do it again. It happens again. I'm like, Oh, is this happening? Like I'm even conscious of the fact of that I'm doing this and you know, so yeah, but I'm not like, if I'm at a table at the dinner table, I'm those odds go way down. But if I'm like on the couch or something, they go way up.
Nick VinZant 1:02:27
I'm probably two out of 10 times. Me I'm probably 20% There's a 20% chance I'm gonna get some food on me. I'm eating. I care a little high. You got to adjust your key you gotta you got to
John Shull 1:02:38
kind of scarred because my father kind of scarred me for life when I was a child, because he has always had a mustache this big Wilford Brimley mustache. And he would eat and like, shit will get stuck in there. He would have no idea unless someone told them. And I'm like, Do you not realize you have pieces of corn in your mustache? And then he'd have a cigarette. It was always just gross. It's gross me out. So that's why I think I'm a pretty clean eater for the most part, but I do I do do tend to spill around again. Well, wait
Nick VinZant 1:03:10
a minute. If you're scarred for life, and you're trying to be a clean eater, and you still get stuff in here 50% of the time, like what happens when you're not trying? Like do you just like, Man, I thought you were gonna go the other direction. Like I don't feel like you're doing a very good job.
John Shull 1:03:27
But the best part about it is right now is I can blame it on the children. You know what I mean? Oh,
Nick VinZant 1:03:32
yeah, yeah, like, Oh, crap, kid,
John Shull 1:03:34
you did something which made me mess up like, thank you.
Nick VinZant 1:03:39
I will say that when I get high on Friday and Saturday nights and kind of go after it a little bit. Like I do have like, I have a sweatshirt that I have to wear on Fridays. It's like it's completely stained from getting food all over it like Well, I gotta wear my Friday sweatshirt, because I don't want to ruin something nice.
John Shull 1:03:56
I mean, I don't I do. Oh my god, it's so busy. I do have dinner shirts. Like if I know it's gonna be like, you know, for having like a finger food or something. I'll change into one of them. I mean, just make sense. It's like paint. It's like painting shirts, right?
Nick VinZant 1:04:13
I don't know if I could do that. I don't have any specific dinner shirts. Well, I do have a dinner sweatshirt that I just talked about. But that's only on Friday nights. Do I use the dinner sweatshirt? Because I know that like it's gonna get it's gonna get sloppy up there. But uh, do you have a bib? Do you have a bib? No, I don't know.
John Shull 1:04:30
Not a goddamn Chuck like manchild over here. Well, maybe I am.
Nick VinZant 1:04:34
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like if you're an adult and you have a bib, I don't really care what you're eating. You're kind of saying something about yourself. Like you just he just got to figure this out. So could
John Shull 1:04:46
you imagine rolling up to like a restaurant with you and your wife or girlfriend boyfriend whenever you have your you pull out a bib and you're just wearing the bid that would mean less more power to you if that's what you need, man. Get on you. Man,
Nick VinZant 1:05:00
you could not wear a bib in front of me if we were dating boy or girl. Within the first two years of a relationship, I would have to be pretty much 90% committed in order to continue to be in a relationship with you if you had a bib on while eating. Like, no, I'm out of here. I
John Shull 1:05:22
went on a random date. Real fast. I went on a random day with a girl when I was in Orlando, and she had just had some teeth work done. And she would tuck napkins and delight her neckline. But like, like, almost created like a little like a little bib. And she would eat and like shit would just roll off their roll onto the napkin and then roll on to her blouse or whatever she was wearing. And I was like, what's the purpose of wearing the napkins and looking like a fool? If it's not going to work? But
Nick VinZant 1:05:50
did you go on a second date?
John Shull 1:05:52
No, no, I didn't really get second dates sometimes because of you. Wait.
Nick VinZant 1:05:59
Yeah, wait a minute. Did she call it off? Or did you call it off?
John Shull 1:06:02
I mean, I did. So Oh,
Nick VinZant 1:06:05
was it the bib?
John Shull 1:06:09
We just didn't we just didn't click well put it that way.
Nick VinZant 1:06:12
Okay. All right. Can I tell my drooling on stuff? Sorry. Yeah, of course. So I started a new job. And I was in charge of like meeting with all the different representatives from different areas. And I had just had like a dental procedure, not a cavity with something else. But I had to have like anesthesia and there was like blood involved. And I went to all these meetings with like, blood just dripping out of my mouth. But I did it on purpose because I thought it would be funny, like I didn't cancel anyone because I was like, I just wanted to see what people would do if I had like blood coming out of my mouth. Like who's this new guy like he's fucking crazy. Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it really helps us out doesn't have to be a big thing. Just a couple of quick words, and let us know what you think are the best juices. I really went into this thinking Orange is the best juice. But maybe for the first time in the history of this show. John convinced me his argument about orange juice only being good in the morning is a good argument.
From the heights of the Himalayas to the remote peaks of Antarctica, Extreme Mountaineer Anja Blacha has climbed some of the most dangerous and demanding mountains on Earth. We talk extreme mountaineering, climbing the seven summits and finding motivation in everyday life. Then, from Christmas lights and neon signs, to lanterns and flashlights, we countdown the Top 5 Kinds of Lights.
Thanks to EveryPlate for sponsoring this episode. Check the link below and enter the code for a special offer.
Code: 49pointless
Anja Blacha: 01:36
Pointless: 32:25
Top 5 Lights: 43:14
Nick VinZant 0:00
Hi welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, extreme mountaineering, in lights, especially
Anja Blacha 0:21
with altitude, you oftentimes don't realize you're beyond that limit of where your body can take it. And once you've crossed that line, there is no real saving anymore. So I realized, the more passionate I am about something, the more other people want to see me do it and succeed. The hardest part of my decisions is oftentimes getting to the starting line. Once you're at the starting line, 80% of the expedition are done to execution, or the remaining 20%.
Nick VinZant 0:51
I want to thank you so much for joining us, if you get a chance to subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest. She's an extreme mountaineer, and what I think is so interesting about this conversation, not just the places that she's been, and the experiences that she's had, but the message that anybody can do this, if you just do certain things. This is extreme mountain near Ania Blanca, what is it about the mountains? What is it that calls to you about the mountains?
Anja Blacha 1:38
I mean, first of all, I think we are human client, no, this kind of like, attracts into mountains and their magnitude magnificent. But being in the mountains that for me is about the presence of just being in the moment. And then it's the challenge. Were
Nick VinZant 1:55
you hooked from the first time? Or was this something that kind of built up over time?
Anja Blacha 2:01
Well, I grew up not knowing anything about mountains. So when I would go on holidays, or be going to the beach, or maybe doing a small city trip, but the first time that I actually saw some proper mountains was in 2013, when I was 23 years old, and I quite liked the environment. I was stung by Yeah, by those by those landscapes in summer next holidays was like our see that again, as part of my backpacking trip to Argentina. And I was like, Okay, where can where can I go and do like, multi day hike and then see some mountains on and I ended up climbing Aconcagua. I think that was the moment where I was like, I really want to experience this again and again and again.
Nick VinZant 2:46
So your first mountain experience was climbing one of the seven summits in South America.
Anja Blacha 2:50
Yeah, that's right. Mount Aconcagua, it's called,
Nick VinZant 2:53
let's seems like that's a pretty intense first experience. Like I thought you were gonna say, like, I went on this two mile hike, saw the waterfall turned around came back.
Anja Blacha 3:04
In a way it helped that I didn't know much about mountains back then. Because I was not expecting so much in terms of like, what it had to be like, and what it would have to give me there was no kind of like pressure. And also, there was no feeling of what if I'm not good enough? What if I'm not skilled enough? Instead, I just went by, okay, what's the requirements that the expedition provided the mountain guide, put forward? Can I tick those boxes? And if I can, hey, why not do it instead of being like, you know, all this people around me are better mountaineers are more skilled and more experienced, and so on. Maybe I shouldn't be trying this. When in a way was good that I got into this world without much prejudice.
Nick VinZant 3:51
Okay, I get the climbing these 8000 meter mountains is hard, right? But I don't really understand it. Is there something that you could like put in perspective like, Okay, how difficult is this really,
Anja Blacha 4:04
I think one of my most difficult moments was when I was climbing Bragg peak, which is not a very well known 1000 meter peak. I was my first I thought mula peak without oxygen though. And on summit day, that feeling was like having to keep walking in a straight line after feeling like you hadn't slept for maybe two nights in a row. And having had a bottle of water. That's that's how it feels like when you're not properly acclimatized. Walking at high altitude. Overall, I think it's a lot of mental game. Those 8000 meter peak expeditions take a lot of time, because you have to get to base camp first. That oftentimes is a multi day trek even just getting to the starting point. Then from then on, you always need to wait for a good weather window to then go and climb a little bit higher up that mountain and then come back to base camp again, said You keep pushing your body, to the feeling of altitude to the lack of oxygen and allow for it to rest, recover and adapt. And then you go up again when the next weather window is there. And sometimes there's avalanches in between that destroy all the efforts you've made on buildings a route or setting up camps, higher up the mountains. Sometimes there's bad weather for two weeks, and you can't do anything about that. And then sometimes you don't feel quite ready yet, but the opportunity is there to go and push and you need to just go grab it and force yourself up that mountain. So a lot of that is a mental challenge of being resilient. And being being able to adapt to what nature around you dictates
Nick VinZant 5:47
what is the significance of doing it without oxygen,
Anja Blacha 5:51
I think climbing with or without bail oxygen as best compared to doing Tour de France and an ebike, or a normal bike. So it's a huge difference. Like, if you're doing Tour de France on the ebike, I think most of us would be able to do it, having to do it on a regular bike. Not so sure. And so the reason why that's so different is because at altitude, you've got lower air pressure. So with lower air pressure, you've got lower levels of oxygen around you. And that means that at an altitude of 1000 meters, you have less than 1/3 of the amount of oxygen around you that you'd normally have at sea level approximately. So even if you wouldn't do any exercise, and actually you're climbing up there, within 24 hours, or maybe 48 hours, you would, generally speaking, die because of the lack of oxygen. And that's why also that altitude is called the death zone in mountaineering, your blood circulation does not work that well anymore, you'll have much cold extremities, like your hands or your feet, you'll be hyperventilating. And as you'll be inhaling significant amounts of really cold air that will cool you out from inside, no matter how warm you're down students, and so on. And so when you use supplemental oxygen, you alleviate and greatly reduce all those factors, and bring down the perceived altitude of the mountain. So even if you're standing on top of like an 8000 meter peak, the perceived altitude for your buddy might only be 7000, or 6000, or even 5000, depending on what oxygen system you use.
Nick VinZant 7:39
So it's a huge difference in that regard. The people who climate without oxygen, kind of look down on the people who climate with oxygen is kind of like Yeah, but you did it with oxygen.
Anja Blacha 7:52
I think there's there's a few different camps. And there's a few different arguments to be had, like, of course, as a purist that say, do it without oxygen, or don't do it at all. Then those those who say, Well, if you don't do it with oxygen, you have a risk to other people, or you can't help that much if there's an emergency because there's no backup system of oxygen when something goes wrong. And when you get altitude sickness and so on. So safety is a concern. And then yeah, those those are saying, look, it might be a nice, a nice achievement for you personally, but I don't think it's worth taking the risks. Because especially with altitude, you oftentimes don't realize you're beyond that limit of where your body can take it. And once you've crossed that line, there is no real saving anymore. So only to say, Oh, well I've done it without by law, oxygen, why would I take the risk? So you've
Nick VinZant 8:53
done all of the Seven Summits, The Seven Summits is the highest mountain on every continent. Right? What? Well, how come you wanted to do that? What motivated you to go for all seven? It kinda
Anja Blacha 9:05
was just unfolding with my holidays. So the first seven songs was I wanted to go to Argentina go backpacking, then I was working a lot in Africa and my boss told me Hey, why don't you save our company and yourself some money for flights to spend your holidays? In Tanzania next to our customer in Kenya, and go climb Kilimanjaro? How could I say no. And just like that with every holiday one of the Seven Summits was added to my to my mom's client and an event she was like I gotta go and see on Arctica I gotta go and and client management and as well and and complete the Seven Summits
Nick VinZant 9:47
Hey, you get this much time off. That's the one question that I was wondering because I know you work a full time job. Like how do you get this much time off to do these?
Anja Blacha 9:55
Negotiation is a good skill to have for sure. I'm, I realized, the more passionate I am about something, the more other people want to see me do it and succeed. So if I was to ask for two months off, because I want to go on a beach holiday and lay by the sea, no one's gonna say yes. But if I'm saying, Look, I deeply care about climbing Ketu, or I deeply care about going on the south, like the ocean to the South Pole. And I'll put a lot of time and effort into this. And also, I'll be giving back when I come back or give my best before as well, people like, I want to be there for you, and I want to support you on your journey. The second thing I would like to add to that is, I've met so many people who say I would love to do it, but don't have the time now, and then they wait for the right moment. And then years go by, and there's never the right moment, because there's always something. And so if you wait for the right moment, you'll wait
Nick VinZant 11:00
forever. But why then, like, Why do you think is this just your nature? Like, why do you do this? And other people do not? Right? Because I think that everybody would kind of agree with those sentiments, but people just don't do it. So what is it like? How do you do it? And other people are? Like, I'll do it tomorrow? I'll do it next week.
Anja Blacha 11:20
I think one thing is commitment. So I make that conscious decision. Like it's a binary yes or no decision. Like, yes, I commit to making this my goal, and therefore I will make it work. Or it's no, it's nice to have, but I'm not committed to prioritize it enough. So I think that's the number one thing like really committing to a goal and being binary about not being a maybe and not being like, let me see, let me try the thing. Like, yes, I will make it happen. That's, that's the number one most important thing. And then I think what adds to that is, I have kind of like, learning from a first and I'll experience adopted that mindset that you don't need to be special, to do something special. You don't need to be like the people who did it before you to do the same thing. Like instead of trying to be either that unicorn or to be a copy of that huge, big, daunting adventurer. Just be yourself. And just do it the way that it works. That works best for you. And I found that to be super helpful, because then you stop comparing yourself, you stop getting derailed by looking at others and you stop, you know, maybe thinking oh, is it now an imposter syndrome? Am I maybe not that special? I mean, not good enough? Am I maybe whatever, and you do not have any excuses anymore. It's just about like, Okay, I am who I am. And I've got what it takes, if I just put my mind to it. And I think that also underlines the point that the hardest part of my decisions is oftentimes getting to the starting line. Once you're at the starting line, 80% of the expedition are done, the execution or the remaining 20%.
Nick VinZant 13:17
So when did you start so you climbing all these mountains, got bored climbing all these mountains? When did you start doing the polar expeditions, crossing the poles, that kind of stuff. And of
Anja Blacha 13:27
2018 I was sitting in the office like a gray rainy afternoon, I was like, what kind of like to go on with expedition. But as you said, another mountain feels a bit repetitive at this point of plants. And many would be nice to learn something new and push myself. And I remember that when I was in Antarctica for the first time in 2017. That was the first time I heard about polar expeditions. That came into my mind again. So I started Googling polar expeditions. I wrote a couple of messages did some research. And a few weeks later, I stood up cross country skis for the first time in my life, and learned the art and craft of polar travel and polar expeditions. And a year later, I did my big big trip across Antarctica from the outer coastline all the way to the South Pole and instead of world record on cross country skis, and it was also a great, great way to learn about self sufficiency and and you know, doing things all alone eventually. Is
Nick VinZant 14:38
it what how would you compare it to kind of mountains would you say it's more difficult or less difficult or just different? Like how would you compare it quite
Anja Blacha 14:46
different? I mean, from the outside looks so similar. You've got snow and ice, you've got remote places and hostile environments. But on the mountains you spend a lot of time resting and recovering. Waiting for good weather, and so on. And so the actual climbing activities on those big mountain expeditions are right are quite short. But when they happen, that they can be very taxing and exposed and dangerous, and you are in a far more risky environment, and polar travel, you have really long days. Every day is a day, there's no rest day says no, let's let's retreat and recover and then go back out again a couple of days and sounds like every single day, you have a full day of work, so to speak. And all the little details matter. So so much and polar travel, you think about, Okay, how many seconds per break or per changing my layers? Do I lose? If I have a Velcro on top of my zipper of my jacket, like that type of detail you get into like, Okay, I will need to pre cut my protein bars or energy bars before I head out onto the expedition because they will be so frozen, it will take me too much time to warm them up and and even to them. If I don't do that in advance like you think about the tiniest details, I will cost you so much time over a two month period. So very different and both other towns have in their own right.
Nick VinZant 16:26
Well, why is the time such a concern? Like why would you do that just because you don't want to stop essentially, or like what's the reason that like time is such an important thing. Typically, on polar expeditions
Anja Blacha 16:36
you want to go unsupported, which means that from day one of the start of the expedition, everything you will need to have with you to make it to the end of the expedition has to be on your sled that you drag behind you. And the more you need, the heavier the sled gets. And so it makes a huge difference if you're carrying or pulling a sled that weighs 100 kilos of you're pulling a sled that weighs 130 kilos. So you want to minimize the weight, but you want to make it so you need to have enough food and fuel and everything. And the faster you go, the shorter the time, you will need to get from A to B. So it's a it's a matter of finding the sweet spot between minimal waits for maximum speed without you know, risking that you will run out of food fuel, or have a habit incident in between that you can't resolve with the supplies that you have.
Nick VinZant 17:39
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions, sir? What was the scariest experience that you've had?
Anja Blacha 17:46
I guess, one mountain that had a few scary experiences was Ketu. I remember one night we're sleeping on Camp three, and I was trying to attend was a climbing partner. And late at night, he woke me up and he was like, hey, we need to get down immediately. Like there's been so much snow accumulating. And it sounds like we'll have avalanche risk very soon. If we don't get down right now, like that might be it. Like that's the moment where you're like fast awake. Luckily, tart, I was a lot of snow drift, but no fresh snow. And so we were safe. But like that moment when you wake up and you're like in shock, you won't forget quickly. And just a few days later on that same expedition. We were on the summit push. We're going for the summit. And k two is known for the battle mech section, which is the most dangerous tech, not the whole mountain. And it's so close to the summit. It's just the last couple of hundreds of meters on the final day after being out there for like six, seven weeks. And we had to turn around right in the middle of that section in the middle of the night. Because, again, there were there was such deep snow that there were snow slabs coming down. And they almost pulled one of the climbers down there was going far ahead and there was a moment you're like, Okay, I want to make it to the top. But I don't want to lose my life. Now's the moment to turn around.
Nick VinZant 19:26
Is it harder to go up or harder to go down? harder on the knees to
Anja Blacha 19:31
go down but definitely takes so much longer to go up.
Nick VinZant 19:34
But do you sometimes do you ever do people get in situations where they like put so much effort into going up that like oh, how are you gonna get down now?
Anja Blacha 19:42
That's a real danger. The majority of people who have died in the mountains died on 30 cent and I unfortunately had to witness that. Last summer. I was climbing Nanga Parbat. I only had base camp support so I was kind of on my own on the mountain but There were three other climbers who about the same time as me summited. And we all kind of like connected said like, hey, let's let's go down now, before it's too late and one of those climbers got altitude sick probably already on the way up, but really emerged on the way down. And eventually we couldn't save him, and he died. And that's the moments where we realize it's a fine line between you know, somebody nice, okay, good, but losing your life. That is a whole different thing. And yeah, that's when you when you when you realize you got to be extra careful, you can't push to your limit in the mountains. I will say, in order to go above and beyond my limits, metaphorically speaking. I always have to stay below my limits.
Nick VinZant 21:00
When you set out on one write for yourself and for other people. Do you did is it really in your mind that like, Oh, I'm not coming back,
Anja Blacha 21:09
I wouldn't go out if I thought I wouldn't come back. I'm not suicidal. I'm not going there. Because I'm like, Oh, I might, I might kill myself in the process. But let me try anyway, I'm going there feeling confident enough that I will be able to make the right calls to come back home safely. Because that's what this is all about. I want to come back home safely. And I want to, I want to send a mountain at all costs. And if it costs my life, I'm happy to give my life away for it. But having said that, death comes close and close every year. Like even just looking back at, you know, my footage from last summer, even though none of those have been people I've known before. It's like people I've met or had short encounters with that are no longer with us. And that list of people is growing every year.
Nick VinZant 22:04
Do you think that you would stop because of that? Yeah.
Anja Blacha 22:07
And I think it's important to remind yourself of doing that. We call it the summit fever, when you forget about everything else and just go for the summit and just try to push on and put on put on and just hope for it to turn out well in the end. But I think it takes a lot of mental strength and a lot of like self confidence to say, No, today's not the day, because at that moment, we are saying no, today's not the day, you're still okay. So you will always be like, but maybe it could have worked out. Maybe it could have made it you will never know because at that moment, you'll still feel okay. So it takes a lot of like self discipline, a lot of like mental strength, a lot of self confidence. Like all the people who have to tell, you know, family and friends, media sponsors, oftentimes big parties involved, like hey, I wasn't feeling it. I turned around and I'm still okay. Like, you know, I'm standing here in perfect health was all my fingers, my nose and my toes. And why did I turn around? Well, because I wasn't feeling it. Okay. You have to be able to do that. And to say that and to stand up for that
Nick VinZant 23:22
light slightly lighter subject which which one mountains did you climb? Was that was your favorite? Which one was like, Oh, I really liked that one.
Anja Blacha 23:29
Even though I talked negatively about that, like k two will always be spit be a special for me. With the most beautiful summit push. We're only like a group of maybe 20 climbers that whole day on the mountain. Perfect use perfect weather. And it's just such an iconic mountain to climb with this. Yeah, stunning. Triangular say that you see from afar. I will I will always love Ketu I think
Nick VinZant 24:01
which one was the hardest? Which one would you say like, Oh, that was the hardest one. That was That was tough. Oh,
Anja Blacha 24:09
funnily enough, brought peak, which is an absolutely unassuming. 1000 meter peak was the hardest for me because we did a very early push to the summit and terrible conditions. I was not well acclimatized. And just everything was so hard on that summit rich, which stretches on for what felt like forever. So it doesn't need to be a difficult mountain to be a difficult climb for you personally. It's what I realized.
Nick VinZant 24:37
Was there one that you were like that one wasn't that hard, which one would you say was kind of overrated in its toughness?
Anja Blacha 24:44
I think in terms of toughness, Nanga Parbat is called the most difficult one of the 1000 meter peaks. It's very technical and very steep and so on. But I feel like commercialization of 1000 meter peak climbing which means usually got multiple expedition teams you share rope fixing you've got well established camps and drought setting and so on, made it quite easy so that I don't feel like Nanga Parbat, even though it's supposed to be the most difficult of the 8000 meter peaks is a technical talent anymore. Does
Nick VinZant 25:21
that ruin things for people? Do you feel like that's ruining the sport? Or is this just this is how it is now,
Anja Blacha 25:26
I guess I'd add to the popularity of the sports, I think what we're seeing in the Himalayas right now is what we've seen and say, the Alps. And the years before, like, back in the days, no one would climb them at all, then some, some explorers, we want to climb for them, and then all of a sudden, everybody's climbing them. And I think we are at a point where, to some extent is happening in the Himalayas as well. And in a way, it's okay, it's great that this is becoming more accessible for people. At the same time, I think we need to be cautious to make sure that even though more people go, they are still sufficiently prepared.
Nick VinZant 26:08
What's next?
Anja Blacha 26:10
I don't have a bucket list of projects or goals to tick off. I guess it's more about like, you know, creating new experiences learning, developing myself. Yeah, but I suppose it's safe to say that I am going to do some more polar and mountain expeditions in the future. But I guess, ultimately, like the main goal for me is more to Yeah, pursue a life well lived. The other striving Well, the art of like using my potential. I guess that's a journey that will never end.
Nick VinZant 26:46
Do you feel like you'll kind of continue down this? I'll just use the word for lack of a better word, like more extreme thing? Or do you ever see yourself like, I want my next challenge is to go to all the buffets in Las Vegas or something like that? Do you ever feel like it'll always be something like this? Or do you think it will ever kind of like, change into something more mundane, for lack of a better word,
Anja Blacha 27:09
actually love the balance. Like, I think if I was just in the bubble of explorers and expeditioners, I wouldn't be happy, I like to like step into that world. But then to step out of that world again, and be, you know, in the world of business and the city live and so on. For me, it's, it's super nice to have that balance of different worlds. And so I don't see myself as like, just focused on the extreme for the next, however many years or completely stepping out of it. But let me see
Nick VinZant 27:42
that I missed this one a little bit. And this is one where they just use a couple of words, but I think I know what they mean. And then the question is just what's the trade off? Right? Because like, you know, everything is a give and take you do this, you don't get to do that. Is there? Like what's the trade off for doing expeditions like this?
Anja Blacha 28:01
I think one big thing is the time. So I can only use my time once. And I spent most of my time that I'm not working. Yeah, on those expeditions, instead of doing extended holidays with my friends. So my, my trips was like my path like, city friends become shorter and shorter, it's more like long weekends, within two weeks of holidays together. Money I guess, it's an expensive hobby to have. So spend a lot of money on gear on travel on equipment, and so on. But I'm happy to do so. And on summit day, that feeling was like having to keep walking in a straight line after feeling like you haven't slept for maybe two nights in a row. And having had a bottle of water. That's that's how it feels like when you're not properly acclimatized. Walking at high altitude. Overall, I think it's a lot of mental game. Those 8000 meter peak expeditions take a lot of time, because you have to get to base camp first, that oftentimes is a multi day trek, even just getting to the starting point. Then from then on, you always need to wait for a good weather window to then go and climb a little bit higher up that mountain, and then come back to base camp again, so that you keep pushing your body to the feeling of altitude to the lack of oxygen and allow for it to rest, recover and adapt, and then you go up again when the next weather window is there. And sometimes there's avalanches in between that destroy all the efforts you've made on building the route or setting up camps higher up the mountains. Sometimes there's bad weather for two weeks and you can't do anything about that. And then sometimes you don't feel quite ready yet but the opportunity's there to go and push, and you need to just go grab it and force yourself up that mountain. So a lot of that is a mental challenge of being resilient.
Nick VinZant 30:12
I want to thank you so much for joining us if you want to connect with her, we have linked to her on our social media accounts were Profoundly Pointless on Tiktok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included her information in the episode description, if you want to see more of these expeditions and see some of the places that Anya has been, the YouTube version of this episode will be live on January 25, at 12:30pm Pacific. So real quick, I want to take a minute and tell you about one of the sponsors of this show, every plate, every plate is now owned by HelloFresh, a leading meal delivery company. And we've all heard about meal delivery companies. But what really sets every plate apart is the price and the quality. And the deal that they are offering for the month of January, every plate is the least expensive meal delivery company, just $1.49 a meal plus $1 steak for life for the month of January. And we're not talking about like just cheap garbage food. Every plate has meals that are easy and don't compromise on quality. And they have a wide variety of recipes. They've got breakfast, 15 minute or less meals feel good food, big batch favorites. And you can even add in delicious options to your order with over 25 convenient sides, lunches, snacks, desserts, and even more. And for the month of January, you can get a meal for $1.49 plus $1 steaks for life by going to every play.com/podcast and entering the code 49 pointless. Now your subscription must be active to qualify and redeem $1 steak. But if you do that it is $1 steak for life. We have put the website in that code in the episode description. It's $1.49 a meal. I've had it. It's great. I really enjoyed it. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the point was part of the show. How hard would you say you try in everyday life? Like if you put a percentage on it?
John Shull 32:36
Probably between a good 60 and 80%?
Nick VinZant 32:40
I think I'm probably between 50 to 65%. But then wide? How come you don't try any less? Why don't you try harder?
John Shull 32:48
I think I try hard at the things that I shouldn't try hard at. And then the things I want to try hard at I'm too tired, or too making excuses to try harder at if that makes sense.
Nick VinZant 33:01
Oh, yeah, I do that too. I definitely put too much effort into things that I shouldn't put effort into and then don't have enough energy left to put effort into things that I should really put in or energy into. I'm not good at prioritizing.
John Shull 33:14
You're right. Yeah, I think you said it right. It all comes down to how you prioritize actually polled the
Nick VinZant 33:19
audience. Would you like to hear the results of the poll? 16% of people said zero to 25 36% said 25 to 50 39% said 50 to 75 and 9% said 75 to 100% I don't really think that you can try that hard that much stuff every day and continue that for very long.
John Shull 33:39
I actually feel like our the audience has been pretty honest there.
Nick VinZant 33:43
I don't think that people tend to lie anonymous.
John Shull 33:46
I but I feel like they go oh, it's Profoundly Pointless. I'm just gonna click the first thing that I see in and do it that way. I
Nick VinZant 33:52
think that most people would probably averaged between 40 and 70%. I think that that would be about what most people are putting in every single day. I feel like the longer you are in any situation that you're in, whether it's a job, whether it's whatever. You slowly realize that you don't really have to try that hard. I think most of life is actually very simple.
John Shull 34:14
I mean, we make it complicated with feelings and emotions. Imagine if you went through life with no emotions how simple life would be.
Nick VinZant 34:21
It'd be boring though, man. He'd be essentially just be a robot like a robot doesn't enjoy life. Alright,
John Shull 34:28
here we go. That's the axle Carlson I like that first name of Axl strong name. Bode Parkinson, Samuel Wilson, Evan Scala, Keller button. Aaron or Sarah Bennett. Williams. Don't do a lot of Bennett's running around Matthew to Juden, Oliver Olsen and Noah Armstrong. Appreciate all of you for checking us out on social media that you've teased to Every episode so I'm not gonna waste your time. Are you ready for the second edition?
Nick VinZant 35:04
All you gotta do it again. Okay, all right player.
John Shull 35:07
I mean, I had fun with it, I think you liked it. So if you didn't steal in that episode, just check out low in Episode cross tag promoting whatever. Basically I'm gonna give Nick 10 random things, literally random things I've just thought of today or yesterday, and I'm just gonna see how you react to him. So first thought first word, that's what we're looking for here. So we're gonna start with a, we're gonna start now we're gonna start with shirtless Jason Kelsey.
Nick VinZant 35:40
I don't care about things like that at all. And actually, this annoys me. This annoys me, right? Because all right, so Jason Kelsey, who is may or may not retiring. He's a football player for the Eagles. He's Travis Kelce, his brother, he's famous all this kind of stuff. He got all this media attention for being shirtless and think drunk at a football game. Right? Which is exactly the same thing that hundreds of other people are doing. Why is it somehow amazing that he's doing it? So him doing something that everybody else is doing is somehow incredibly important and special? I
John Shull 36:14
don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying. However, the hundreds of other people probably aren't a 10 time. Pro Bowler, probably aren't. Travis Kelce is Brother aren't sharing a suite with Taylor Swift.
Nick VinZant 36:28
We're giving him attention because he's a famous persons like famous person does things that regular people do all the time.
John Shull 36:36
I'm just just saying I see what you're saying. But part of this is to keep it moving. So let's keep moving. Have you by the way, if you out there have a that strong opinion on Jason Kelce? Let us know. All right. Second thing here. Judge Judy.
Nick VinZant 36:49
Oh, just a great show. Judge Judy, just a great show. Right. I can't believe that she's she was old when I was young. I can't believe that she's still doing her thing.
John Shull 37:02
i i You know what, I probably in the minority, but I don't I've never cared for any of those court like live courtroom shows or whatever. I've just never liked any of them. Nobody
Nick VinZant 37:13
could ever do it like Judge Judy did it. Judge Judy is far and away the best at it. And nobody else comes anywhere close to Judge Judy.
John Shull 37:23
All right. Let's see here. face tattoos
Nick VinZant 37:27
are just not a good idea. Right? Like maybe it looks cool. Maybe it's your thing. But like, I would advise my sons to pass on that. You better be famous. You better be rich and famous. That's what
John Shull 37:40
I would say. I was gonna say, Do you know anybody? That isn't Mike Tyson? Or somebody along those lines? Famously, that has a face tattoo that is proud of it? I
Nick VinZant 37:51
don't personally know anybody with a face tattoo.
John Shull 37:56
No. All right. Do you like that? You're awful. Yeah, I mean, neck tattoos? Chin eyes, forehead.
Nick VinZant 38:05
You know, people with eye tattoos.
John Shull 38:07
Now they have on their eyelids.
Nick VinZant 38:10
Or is it makeup? That doesn't count?
John Shull 38:13
No. It's an actual tattoo that they got on their eyelids. And they blink and you see something? Yeah, or when they're sleeping. They're like little they're like little eyes. Like on top of their eyelids. I don't know how to explain
Nick VinZant 38:26
it. They have i That's weird. That's creepy. That creeps me out. Well, it's
John Shull 38:29
probably why they're single. And I've never been married. Alright. Next thing here. microwave rice.
Nick VinZant 38:38
I don't microwave rice. That's one of the few things that I feel like you don't put in the microwave is rice. I don't do that. I cook rice on the oven are the top of the what do they call the top of the oven? What do they call that stove? Stove Top where God intended it.
John Shull 38:55
You will get there. All right. Dolly Parton. Oh,
Nick VinZant 39:00
just a legend. And probably one of the great. I don't know about her musically, right. Like I don't know anything about that. But in terms of like somebody who has used their fame and wealth to do great things for a community. I don't think that there's many people that are going above and beyond Dolly Parton that somebody that you can say has done things and made a difference with their fame. Get
John Shull 39:24
to the next thing here. Wireless headphones.
Nick VinZant 39:28
I don't have any seems nice. seems more convenient. Wireless is always more convenient than wired.
John Shull 39:35
Get a get a pair and it will change your life. I guarantee it.
Nick VinZant 39:39
I don't listen to music and headphones. I don't use headphones for anything other than this podcast. That's the only thing I use headphones for.
John Shull 39:46
What about your work zooms work calls you go at phoneless Yeah.
Nick VinZant 39:53
All right. The computer has a speaker What do I need this for? Not buying extra like I need to buy headphones for this one. You're in your house. Fine.
John Shull 40:02
Moving on double decker tacos.
Nick VinZant 40:06
Oh, fantastic, man. Just great. I love a good double decker taco. Probably second in my opinion only to the grilled stuff burrito at Taco Bell. I love the combination of crunchy and soft. All right.
John Shull 40:21
So these last two are really random. So we'll see we say Turkey Pacers?
Nick VinZant 40:27
I don't actually never don't think I've ever seen one or used it.
John Shull 40:32
Well, it's exactly probably what
Nick VinZant 40:35
how many Turkey bases do you have? How many pairs of thought? Tongs do you have now?
John Shull 40:40
tongs are the same and I have to Turkey better?
Nick VinZant 40:47
Why do you need more than one turkey baster. Why would you need more than one turkey baster.
John Shull 40:52
They're different sizes. One for meat that I smoke and then one for meat that goes in the oven.
Nick VinZant 40:59
Okay, but couldn't you just use the smaller one? No matter what?
Unknown Speaker 41:05
Sure, yes. Right. So
Nick VinZant 41:07
you really only need one turkey baster, you have a problem with buying things that you don't need.
John Shull 41:13
Listen, Mom, if I wanted to be scolded, I would have literally called my mother and how to do that to me.
Nick VinZant 41:19
So somebody else has to do it. Now. This is what you've done. You've passed the responsibility of scolding YUTAN to multiple people, because you didn't listen to your parents. You don't listen to your wife. You don't listen to me. You don't learn from your mistakes. And now everybody's got to deal with it.
John Shull 41:34
All right, last thing here are people that have won gold tooth?
Nick VinZant 41:41
I've never seen anybody with gold. See? What kind of people are you hanging around?
John Shull 41:45
I don't know. I mean, we're similar ages. And I remember you would get like a, like a little porcelain tooth or something. But I don't remember gold being a thing when I was a young lad.
Nick VinZant 41:57
I think that mine have you can see him.
John Shull 42:02
Oh, God, what is that in there?
Nick VinZant 42:05
No, it's just the filling. It's not it's just a black filling.
John Shull 42:09
Yeah, why are your feelings black? Are they supposed to be white? No,
Nick VinZant 42:13
I got them before I got them when I was a little kid. You shouldn't have cavities as an adult. Okay, you shouldn't have cavities in an adult unless you have some kind of condition with your teeth or something like that. You shouldn't have cavities as an adult. Brush your teeth.
John Shull 42:30
Yeah, brush your teeth. Brush your teeth. Yesterday from Nick was that dude yelling at people apparently went to a dentist in the middle of a cornfield.
Nick VinZant 42:40
Yeah, I was raised. I lived in Kansas. Man. This is what we had in Kansas. What are your fillings look like their fancy pants
John Shull 42:46
on most of my teeth that I had had cavities and became Oh my God, what's that word? What's worse than a cavity? Root Canal? Root canals. So that's why I have caps over my actual teeth.
Nick VinZant 43:00
Oh, okay. Yeah, I have my actual teeth. You can also
John Shull 43:05
tell because they're white in apparently my teeth are not white. So that's kind of
Nick VinZant 43:10
I think most people's teeth are white man. Don't be so sensitive about your teeth. Oh, thank
John Shull 43:14
you best friend. Let's let's move on to our top five list. Oh, is
Nick VinZant 43:18
there it's not five already. Okay. All right. So our top five is top five kinds of lights. There's a lot of kinds of lights. I don't know exactly how this is going to go. But what's your number five? what's your what's your fifth favorite light?
John Shull 43:34
Yeah, I also have no idea where this is gonna go. So let's just do it. So my number five I have Christmas lights.
Nick VinZant 43:41
That's hard. Put that number five. You're gonna put Christmas lights as your number five.
John Shull 43:46
They would have gone higher if my father in law hadn't ruined them for me forever.
Nick VinZant 43:50
Man. There's little angst between you and your father in law. No,
John Shull 43:55
we're cool. Nah, man. We hugged it out. We were fun. Did you? Yeah. No, but I think we're fine. Now.
Nick VinZant 44:03
This was a question that I thought of the other day. How many people? Do you feel like you owe a sincere apology to in your life? Like you need to apologize to that person?
John Shull 44:16
Probably barely around five maybe like yeah, probably five.
Nick VinZant 44:24
I can think of three that I owe. Like, I owe them an apology.
John Shull 44:30
I mean, obviously, probably. Three out of the five are ex girlfriends. And then, you know, thing is are they gonna say Are they gonna give me an apology because most of my apologies need to be met with an apology from the other person because both of us messed up.
Nick VinZant 44:47
Oh no, I would say no, the three people that I owe an apology to it's just me. It's just me. It's not anything super bad, but it's like oh, that Well, no, I would say to earn apologies in one is more of an explanation.
John Shull 45:05
I still say five. I mean, I could say I'm sorry to a few people for some of the things that I did in the past. I
Nick VinZant 45:11
don't think that you should owe more than five people a sincere apology. If you get more above five, you're in like the 10 or 15 range, like you got to reevaluate your life like you you gotta you got to change some things.
John Shull 45:24
What's your number five there? Chandelier. Okay, that's actually my number four. Let's get a chandelier. Yeah, and I only put it on the list because some chandeliers are damn cool. Like, they're massive. And they're just works of art. I don't I mean, I don't have a chandelier. And you're wealthy enough to handle it, but they just they speak of elegance in times that have been
Nick VinZant 45:54
there's a class Enos that goes along with a chandelier. It's instant class, if done correctly. That's why I would put a chandelier up there. I think it's instant class,
John Shull 46:03
if done correctly, was number four.
Nick VinZant 46:07
My number four is neon lights. I like a good neon light catches my attention.
John Shull 46:13
Okay, I mean, okay, like, yeah. Are you referring to like the neon line or line neon light signs, Kind of? Kind of kind of lights? Or
Nick VinZant 46:24
is there any other kind of neon sign?
John Shull 46:28
Well, I didn't know it was just like the siren lights. Or if you're having like neon lights in the basement or something.
Nick VinZant 46:36
Always I guess I never really thought about it. I'd never really went too far into by any neon light honestly, isn't a neon otherwise, it would just be a bright light. I guess you'd have to be a neon sign any kind of neon sign.
John Shull 46:49
Alright, number three. Are can lights. What? I love me a candle.
Nick VinZant 46:57
What's a tan light?
John Shull 47:01
Red in a basement? They're like their flags though the ceiling? And most of the murmurs like have the hole.
Nick VinZant 47:09
Okay, those are nice. Yeah,
John Shull 47:13
those are my I wish we could have them in every room of my house. Like they're, they're just aesthetically pleasing. They're, they're just awesome. I don't know what else to say about him.
Nick VinZant 47:24
I would say that looking at a candlelight that those are easily the best kind of basement and or bathroom lights. I think that you got to have something kind of hanging down if you're talking about the family room, or like the kitchen or someplace like that. But those are easily the best kind of lights for most of the house. I would agree with you there. Good choice.
John Shull 47:46
Good choice. Sure. Number three high
Nick VinZant 47:49
beams on a car. I've always liked high beams on a cars like ooh, put on the high beams. Like, yeah, can really get out there on the road or like it's a dangerous situation. If you got the high beams on in the row, you're not messing around.
John Shull 48:05
I'm gonna flash my high beams Adam to tell ya let him know.
Nick VinZant 48:09
Do you know the trick about flashing your high beams? What does that signal to other drivers?
John Shull 48:13
For them to get out of your way? I believe that's
Nick VinZant 48:18
a sign that a cop is farther up the road. That was a Kansas thing. You didn't do that for people. Like if you passed a cop that was on the highway you would then after you got past them flash your high beams that other drivers coming in to let them know there was a cop up ahead.
John Shull 48:33
No man in the city. If you flash your lights is somebody it's gonna cause a problem most
Nick VinZant 48:38
times. Yeah, I guess that's kind of true.
John Shull 48:41
We're never to and I have like stadiums that are as complex
Nick VinZant 48:48
or those are cool. Okay. Okay. I don't know if you consider this to be the same thing. But would you consider a spotlight which is my number two? I think spotlights are awesome. Almost like it's a spotlight.
John Shull 49:03
Yeah, I mean, I sat there I feel like they're a part of the setup. But yeah, that's fine. It's probably almost
Nick VinZant 49:10
saying okay, what's your number one?
John Shull 49:12
I think was number one. Yeah. Flashlight. Ah, it's
Nick VinZant 49:19
like that though, isn't it? It
John Shull 49:21
is my my actual number one is a flashlight.
Nick VinZant 49:25
Flashlight is the greatest light source. It's the best kind of light you carry it around yourself. It can do anything it can. It can supplant any other kind of light. That
John Shull 49:34
might be one of the top 10 greatest inventions of all time. Is the flashlight. Certainly
Nick VinZant 49:40
one of the handiest inventions that you can think of would be a flashlight. Although I think that the flashlight could be supplanted potentially by the headlamp headlamp is really a more convenient flashlight if you think about it.
John Shull 49:54
i Yeah, I agree with you, I guess to a certain degree headlamp Pretty cool. You
Nick VinZant 50:01
don't have to use your arms automatically points where you're looking.
John Shull 50:04
It's great. That was actually on my honorable mention was a headlamp.
Nick VinZant 50:11
What else you have on your honorable mention?
John Shull 50:12
LED light bulbs.
Nick VinZant 50:15
Okay, those are those are kind of cool.
John Shull 50:19
And then I just have like little Doctor lights, you know, like the ones that they click on and off.
Nick VinZant 50:23
Oh, like the ones that are like that thing. You can kind of make them around wherever. I don't know what they
John Shull 50:29
are like the ones that the optometrists use for your eyes.
Nick VinZant 50:32
Ah, my arm I mentioned I have a lighthouse. Really Lighthouse should have been on I mean, a lighthouse is kind of cool. The concept of a lighthouse is kind of cool.
John Shull 50:41
Yeah, the concepts cool, but I'm not I'm not a fan. I don't have I don't really care about lighthouses one way or the other.
Nick VinZant 50:47
I would make a petition that we could read the world entirely of lamps and be completely fine as a civilization like we could get rid of all lamps.
John Shull 51:00
Lamps are okay, I'm more or less like a lantern. I think I would rather need lanterns but yeah, you can get rid of lamp lamps. Yeah, I
Nick VinZant 51:10
don't think that we need lamps at all as a civilization like I'm always actually slightly annoyed when there's a lamp in the room like Oh, I gotta turn this thing on. Just put a switch.
John Shull 51:21
Just get the clapper man.
Nick VinZant 51:22
I don't think that they make that anymore. Have you ever had a clapper in your house?
John Shull 51:28
No, but I we have Google now where I just go hey, Google, turn on the lights and the lights come on automatically. Oh,
Nick VinZant 51:33
fancy pants with your chandelier snob.
John Shull 51:37
Oh, actually, it just I don't know if you can see that. But I just turned on my basement lights.
Nick VinZant 51:42
That's all you have to do say Google turn on the lights. Do you have to be specific about where like Google turn on the basement light?
John Shull 51:48
I mean, you could be but hey, Google, turn off the lights.
Nick VinZant 51:57
I love the idea that we want to kind of like, hey, let's have privacy in the meantime, what do you go for privacy or convenience?
John Shull 52:06
Ah, oh, there you go. See just went off. Um, I mean, privacy, obviously. But could somebody hack into my you know, my, my home and mess with me? Of course they could.
Nick VinZant 52:19
Yeah, that would be I'm really not that worried about that. I'm pretty sure that anybody has all of your information anyway. So I don't have to worry too much about it. So I'm like, Ah, whatever. Click,
John Shull 52:29
they got nothing. I got nothing that they can't steal. So they don't want my bank account.
Nick VinZant 52:34
Oh, okay. That's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. It really helps out the show. And let us know what you think are the best lights. I'm surprised Chris I was really surprised. I didn't personally put Christmas lights up a lot higher. But I do love a flashlight. It's just the coolest thing.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
From winning X Games three times, to exploring the wildest parts of the Canadian backcountry to pulling off the world’s first snowbike base jump, Cody Matechuck has explored the limits of Snowbiking. We talk Snowbiking, the freedom of the backcountry and never getting comfortable. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Foods that Start with A.
Cody Matechuk: 01:23
Pointless: 31:07
Top 5: 47:30
Nick VinZant 0:12
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode Snowbiking and a foods, not a holes, a foods.
Cody Matechuk 0:23
The biggest thing is backcountry riding freedom, snow bikes, snowmobiles, it's a blank canvas out there. It's absolutely you want to go to that peak, three mountains over, just start heading there. I don't know the first, the first year with the bronze gave me so much disappointment because I was actually leading the race and I stole the bike. And the only thought the first time I hit it, what I was thinking, I'm like, Man, snow bikes never done this. I
Nick VinZant 0:49
want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it. It really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest is a three time X Games gold medalist in Snowbiking. But he also does motocross BASE jumping all kinds of different extreme sports. This is Cody Mata Chuck. So I know this shouldn't really be the first question to ask you. But when I was watching the snowbike videos and kind of learning about it, I just kept wondering like, how did how did this become a sport?
Cody Matechuk 1:32
Just evolution, people have been messing with the stuff since you know, since 1900s, earlier since there's been motors. But the last 1015 20 years is when it's actually been good enough to bring to the masses. It's hard to get a snow bike, which is lower power than a snowmobile and make the chassis dynamics and everything work. So it's actually usable for the majority of people. So technology is just finally caught up to what the idea is of it, basically.
Nick VinZant 2:08
When did you get into it?
Cody Matechuk 2:10
They're very recent. So my first year on him was 2016. And it was actually the first time I wrote one because they were always shooting before they hit the market. And like 2010, or maybe just before with this old style kit to Moto, that you couldn't really get anywhere. They're fun on downhills, but as far as like being able to explore the mountain, they just weren't that good. So now with the recent developments in it all and us being able to do our own testing, and it's just it's come a long way. So in 2016 When I finally got on one I was like, All right, this is now good enough where I'm down to sell my sled and go full time on this. And the year after X Games popped up. They wanted to put snow bikes in and everything kind of just, you know right time, right place, and it just all unfolded.
Nick VinZant 3:06
I want to get into kind of the X game stuff a little bit later. But like when you look at it, what is what is it about the snow back that you like, like what makes it kind of different from other aspects.
Cody Matechuk 3:15
The biggest thing is backcountry riding freedom. It's when you go riding trails on a dirt bike or mountain bike, you're following someone else's trail you're following a predetermined route, snow bikes, snowmobiles, it's a blank canvas out there. It's you know, it's snowboarding without a falling a cat track without following signs. It's absolutely you want to go to that peak, three mountains over just start heading there. And you can you have absolute freedom to go up down sideways off stuff like it doesn't matter. It's just Yeah, it's it's, it's a foam pit. Like when you get good snow, the whole world becomes a foam pit, you can jump off anything, you can bail off things. It's so much fun, just because it's free riding with the safety of you know, if I mess up, I can jump off and go 100 150 feet to my back and I'll be good.
Nick VinZant 4:10
Now, it wasn't one of those things like right like I think that you obviously take it kind of more to the extreme example. But is it something that like, Man, if I just want to go putter around on this thing? I can do that. Or do you have to have a certain skill level to really kind of Maxim it's
Cody Matechuk 4:23
actually something that I prefer to put new people on rather than snowmobiles. So if I'm bringing my girlfriend or some older people or whatever, it's easier. As a beginner to get around the mountains on a snow bike than a snowmobile. The trail will be a little bit harder. But once you're in the back country dealing with different angles of slopes and stuff, where on a snowmobile you have to kick it up on one ski and hold it on one ski as you're climbing or descending snow bike, you're riding across this side slope, you just ride across it. There is no like trying to hold it up on an egg So all these weird angles on the snowmobile become non existent on a snow bike. And it's just an amazing experience to go see the backcountry and see the glaciers and go to ice ks and just go explore what's out there. It's crazy how much terrain you can cover.
Nick VinZant 5:17
I mean, the way you describe it makes it sound amazing. Like That sounds amazing. How come but why is it why isn't it more popular? It's
Cody Matechuk 5:25
expensive. It's a lot of work, you know, snowmobiles these days. It's our like vehicles, they're turnkey, go. You can ride them, put them away wet, right, and put them away wet. Do that for an entire season and be good snow bikes, you're pretty much working on them after every day, a little bit. Every second day you're doing oil changes, you're always checking bolts. They're not as refined as a snowmobile because they are still a custom prod custom product, you're putting a kit onto a bike. So for general, people that want to just buy a toy and go out and ride, it takes more work on a snow bike to keep it all together.
Nick VinZant 6:05
Do you think they'll get that figured out though? Is that a growing pains thing? Or is that just going to be like nah, that's just how this is gonna be.
Cody Matechuk 6:12
If we come to a time where there's custom built purpose built snow bikes and they're running off an assembly line, then yeah, it could definitely be where the snowmobiles are. Is
Nick VinZant 6:22
there any rivalry between the snow bikers and the snowmobilers like because I'm old enough that I kind of remember skiers for snowboarders, that was a thing for a while,
Cody Matechuk 6:31
I actually like to bring it all back to the snowboard ski rivalry because especially when it first started, when people didn't see what snow bikes are capable of. That was a huge thing. You know, we always joke that snowmobiles are like quads, the quad riders, so there's definitely punches back and forth. But in the end, it's really just, if you got a crew of sweaters, it's gonna be a little weird being the only snow biker, or vice versa. You got to crew snow bikers, it's gonna be weird being the only sweater. So you got a group of friends guys all do the same thing. No matter what you're gonna have a great time in the back country. It's just different tools for the same job basically.
Nick VinZant 7:14
Now you want X Games? Three years in a row? Correct. Yeah. And Abrons the year before that, I would imagine the first time was amazing. But did you start to feel a lot of pressure, the second in the third year,
Cody Matechuk 7:27
a little bit. Definitely felt like more pressure. But I don't know the first, the first year with the bronze gave me so much disappointment because I was actually leaving the race and I stole the bike. And I went back in the pack came back to third. So I was kind of pissed. The next year, I had a fire under me. And there wasn't, there was no way I was coming home with anything other than first. And once I kind of learned a formula through that year, I use that formula from for the years to come and kind of did the same thing, rode the same amount, went to the same events, and was able to come to X Games, feeling like the most prepared guy there. Which, if you can, you know, just do a little bit more than everyone else. It's pretty easy to have the confidence going into it. And then I like playing mind games, when I'm there with the guys but just trying to set myself up to have the most confidence coming into the event. And knowing that I did the most work out of the entire field.
Nick VinZant 8:36
What do you mean mind games? You like messing with them? Or something? Or?
Cody Matechuk 8:39
Yeah, pretty much. I go. What's the word cold turkey or like, I shut right off. I don't talk too early. Anybody give everyone cold shoulders and just kind of do my own thing. And let them talk and let them start rumors. Let them shake a little bit. And just let the writing do the talking.
Nick VinZant 9:00
So X Games isn't doing the snowbike competitions right now? Do you still feel like you're the best in the world at it.
Cody Matechuk 9:09
Um, it'd be hard to say there's been people raised in the last few years. But as of last year, I guess the National Snow cross Association, which is across the United States, they actually pulled snow bikes out and they used to have snow bikes at every round. I think now they just haven't met like three rounds. So kind of everyone's losing practice. I do spend a lot of time in the backcountry riding and busting up you know, range roads and whipped out trails, which always helps. So yeah, I think if needed be if we need to go racing again. spend you know, go back to the program. Spend a few months November December January training and writing and yeah, I don't I don't see why I can't be on top again. If you I just I know the commitment it takes. Right now I'm riding freestyle motocross. And it's a lot of fun and racing is, you know, you got to sell your soul a little bit for it. So whether I would go back, that's another question. I'm not sure.
Nick VinZant 10:14
When you kind of look at it, do you feel like you generally push yourself more or hold yourself back more
Cody Matechuk 10:20
on the track? I feel like it's, it's, you know, we're hanging it all out, especially at X games you have. Basically, my program starts in September when I'm training for end of January X Games. And that whole six months or the entire year before is all adding up to one weekend. One Race, there's a heat race, and there's a main event, there's no last chance qualifier, there's nothing. So if you don't make it to the main, you're yours done. So it's, it's, there's not much room to leave anything on the table. You have to try and not crash and be efficient, and not get taken out. Because a start on snow bikes with everyone going into turn one. Everyone's used to being on six foot long dirt bikes, now they're on 10 foot long snow bikes, it gets rowdy, so it's just trying to make it out alive out of turn one, and keep it consistent through the rest of the track. Yeah, it's, uh, you know, there's mind games, it's, it's kind of like, right at 90 95%, right at 100 for a couple laps that you need to,
Nick VinZant 11:30
because the only thing that I could ever compare it to right, like I do mountain biking, and I go over like the bunny slopes, right? But there's always these times where like, I know, I could do this, I know I could do this. And I just can't get myself to do this. Did you ever struggle with that? Or have you always been just like, Man, I just go for it. I'm
Cody Matechuk 11:48
go for it. But with practice and with confidence, you know, bicycles, or whatever it is, we've always been building jumps since I was three years old, pulling them back a little bit farther, a little bit farther. So it gives you the confidence to come into these things. I don't generally do something unless I know it can be done or unless I know I can do it, or a baby step my way into it. But everyone, and I think that's the same with everyone. That's just what my baseline is versus what someone else's baseline is, can be substantially different. Like, why
Nick VinZant 12:26
are you good at it?
Cody Matechuk 12:27
I think practice and the amount of different sports that I've done through my life. I've rode professional street bikes, professional dirt bikes, my professional wingsuit, or professional FX rider, professional snowbike, rider, and professional snowmobile rider among all my other hobbies side of sports. So you can start pulling from all these different activities. And when you're constantly learning new sports, whether it's extreme sports, or my latest Laird has actually golf, which is a insanely frustrating sport to learn. But he started pulling from everything and having all these experiences in your quiver ready to pull from, you know, the corner speed and the precision of street bikes, the gnarliness and the ever trade changing track conditions of dirt bikes, I rode bulls for a little bit in high school, you got the earliness of that, and being able to just react to a moving animal, you know, you can start pulling from all these sports and adding them into your own style. So I think just being able to do as many things as possible, when you're young, and growing up through it and always challenging yourself to learn, keeps you in the right mindset to be able to push through any anything.
Nick VinZant 13:51
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Yeah, let's go. What is your worst injury and how did you come back from it
Cody Matechuk 13:58
had a few bad injuries Nothing crazy, though. You know, plates in the collarbone. I just broke my back, shattered legs, but nothing that had to do any crazy long term healing. I've always been really good at healing. And lately I've been diving into Chinese medicine, chi, real crazy things. And, for example, my back break, I was writing again in five weeks, I was actually wingsuiting again in three weeks. And there's that was a gnarly crash. So I mean, you can learn anything, you can definitely learn how to heal quick.
Nick VinZant 14:37
Walking down the stairs, I'd be worried about my back. Does it linger in your mind or do you just put it at a completely aside?
Cody Matechuk 14:44
I kind of come to terms with it every every crash has a different reason for the crash whether it's your fault, someone else's fault, and those can play. This one wasn't really my fault like I know what I did. But there was also a bit of just random loop to it. So it's not something that really lingers in my head that one. If you completely mess something up, then I definitely feel how it is how it can affect the comeback of it. But I mean, yeah, it's hard. I know it's hard to come back fears is a serious thing. But facing fear every day with the extreme sports, the wingsuiting, where you're facing wall based jumping, you're facing death every day. But all those help a guy overcome it, and all we can really change is what's right now. So living in the past, letting those thoughts intrude. It's, it's always just a downhill slope. So, yeah, being able to conquer the mind as
Nick VinZant 15:47
an athlete. Was there ever a point where you feel like okay, I figured this out. Like I unlocked the secret to getting my success. And do you remember what that was?
Cody Matechuk 15:58
It comes and goes, for sure. You know, there's, there's a time race and X game sponsors were good, money was good. Wasn't much problems. All I had to do is hit the gym, workout race. Things are good. X Games goes away. Things changed. Now we're switching sports. I'm in freestyle motocross full time now. So for sure, there's times of comfort, but that usually doesn't last you know, everything changes everything moves in the world universe, whatever you want to say. So conference, a dangerous thing. I think. I agree
Nick VinZant 16:34
with that. Right, that it's hard to take risks. I think a lot of people struggle with taking risks.
Cody Matechuk 16:38
That change is good, though. I agree. A lot of people do struggle with taking risks because it's easy to be comfortable. And taking risks. I mean, any type of risk, whether it's job, personal risk, sports, whatever. It all leads to change in a way whether it's change in growth or change in injury or you know, you might lose your job. But change is good, negative or positive. You're learning lessons either way. You know, stagnation is not good. So it can be scary, but usually you look back on any type of risk. And the end result maybe 510 years later is positive.
Nick VinZant 17:20
What do you feel like is the best place to go Snowbiking?
Cody Matechuk 17:24
I have been quite a few places including Japan, Chile haven't made it over to Russia yet but North America and bc I mean, it's really hard to beat British Columbia. I usually get bounced between Whistler the coast and interior BC like Revelstoke area. But basically, all LBC and then storm chasing from there. It's just the snow that we usually get not this year, this year. It's terrible. But the snow we usually get is hard to be anywhere in the world.
Nick VinZant 17:59
Does it change everything? Like how important is the snow condition? I guess, to the experience to get to the question, snow
Cody Matechuk 18:06
is everything. Um, the more snow you got, the more fun you're gonna have period. And, but it changes you know, for me, I like jumping. So the more snow I get, the more freedom I have to jump off big things. I can't jump off a 50 foot cliff with barely any snow, I need the snow to create that soft landing. If you're just going to explore generally, it's easier to explore in bad snow conditions with a snow bike than a snowmobile. So I guess it depends on your purpose. But I think everyone would agree the more snow the better. For sure.
Nick VinZant 18:45
What do you think is the future of the sport?
Cody Matechuk 18:49
Few years ago, I would say you know racing X Games all that. Now it's hard to say. I think snowbike world needs a purpose built snowbike And something for everyone to get excited about. We've been bringing new people into the sport moto guys. It's been good slowly growing. But it could be a lot better. So I think just innovation is the the biggest thing. Innovation in the actual snowbike itself.
Nick VinZant 19:17
Do you think it can survive without a big competition? Like if there isn't some big competition? Can this keep going?
Cody Matechuk 19:24
Yeah, I think I think it can keep going because the racing is good for promotion and stuff, but it's not good for the masses. You know, most people don't want to buy a bike to go buy a snow bike and build a snow bike to go on a track. It's not what they're built for. They're built for the mountains. So you know that's, that's their biggest thing. They they liked the mountains, they like the fresh powder, and they're really good at back country.
Nick VinZant 19:54
So somebody is looking to get into this like what kind of equipment should they be looking at? What should they watch out for? for someone
Cody Matechuk 20:00
looking to get into it, I would say go do a guided tour. Snow bikes are expensive to get into, you know, it's, you can get into a used bike. But used bikes can be very scary, anything older, because it's such a new scene, anything older is like tenfold worse. Every year, there was such big technology, technology, technical advances in the in the equipment. So I would say if you're buying the snowbike, spend a little bit extra to get something a little bit newer, or and go take a tour, go take a guided tour, not just a rental, and go see what what you really can get into kind of
Nick VinZant 20:45
helped me get some perspective on this, you're going probably how fast jump and how far,
Cody Matechuk 20:50
this nobody's 10 feet long, that's the best way to put it. So you know that this one's like probably 160 feet, 150 feet. These little things are super fun quarter pipes, the gyro of the track allows you to do these, like 180s allows you to kick over and spin the bike around and keep it all balanced using the track speed to bring it around
Nick VinZant 21:17
with the weight with the weight of that, do you have to like muscle it the whole way? Or can you kind of just get it going and it'll take itself around the curve, so to speak. Yeah,
Cody Matechuk 21:28
you kind of initiate it, there's a little bit of, you know, it's it's like anything the work, the least efficient you are, the more muscle you will have to use. But if you can be really efficient with the timing of everything, then it doesn't take much effort. But it's you have to be very precise. But yeah, it's just a you know, set it off the lip, do a little bit of something in the middle air. And hopefully you timed everything right to land back down and not explode. I actually have a video I think right after this video where I was doing a quarter pipe and I over Rotated one and you can see me blow off and crash.
Nick VinZant 22:08
How fast are you usually going through they're not
Cody Matechuk 22:11
my not that fast. Like a lot of those bigger jumps were either third or fourth year. But it's not third or fourth on a dirt bike, it's third or fourth on a snow bike, which is a lot less. I don't really have a speed for you. But we spent a lot of time packing runways and making the transition of the jump very smooth, because it's so easy to like G out and something and lose 10 mile an hour. So it's just a constant game of trying to use gravity trying to use the right curves of the mountain to allow yourself to have as much speed as possible. And generally, if you want to go really big, it's a step down more than a double or gap. So
Nick VinZant 22:52
it's not like you're going like 100 miles an hour, right? No, no, it's 160. Is that a big jump? Or is that kind of like man, it's Tuesday. Um,
Cody Matechuk 23:01
it's big for sure. It's there's no none of this like that one right, there is a big one. One of the bigger ones for a snow bike. But I've done a few that are like to the point where it's testing what a snow bikes ever done. So there's a step down in Whistler, by grizzly Lake, it's like 150 foot step down, the total vertical distance is probably 80 feet down. And you're looking at this thing, it's a step down, you got to hit fourth gear to make it over the gap. Because it's an actual like gap. And the only thought of the first time I hit it what I was thinking I'm like man, snowflakes never done this, I have no idea what's going to happen like you're landing one ski way down the mountain. Is it going to pop out? Is it gonna stick and fold? Is it gonna bust in half, like I don't know if the forks are gonna break off. But in the end, there's only one way to try and you know, it doesn't come on the first year it's coming from years and years of sending it bigger and bigger and bigger and getting to the point where all we gotta go bigger to see if it can go bigger. So it's just kind of what it's evolved to.
Nick VinZant 24:19
You're not just checking the user's manual
Cody Matechuk 24:22
no yeah, we're writing it okay when
Nick VinZant 24:24
this replays like when did you realize like, oh crap
Cody Matechuk 24:32
pretty soon because I knew I was going to over rotate but with the deep snow sometimes if you can get your weight so you can see me shift my weight far to the left, my left Yeah. For landing trying to like counteract all that force. But because the back end whipped out a little bit too much. It just I couldn't hold on to it. Sometimes. You know if that landing was three feet higher, I probably could have stuck it but you Um, yeah, it was just a little bit too much off the side. So you
Nick VinZant 25:04
knew Friday, right? Like they like oh crap from the very beginning, like, oh man, I'd done fucked up. Yeah. Dude, what are you doing? Like, that's crazy man innovation. That's a great answer, by the way, innovation. That's what I'm doing. Don't you worry about? Yeah.
Cody Matechuk 25:26
This was in Pemberton, the Rutherford right on the glacier. And that was my fourth snowbike base.
Nick VinZant 25:33
Is it really fun? Or is it kind of like, okay, I'm just gonna see if I can do this? Or would you really be like, No, man, you got it, you got to try this. That's great.
Cody Matechuk 25:43
I'd love to say you got to try this. It's great. But it takes years and years of both snow bikes. And riding and parachuting to combine it all. There's a lot of things that are happening there that can kill you. But the feeling is amazing. There's riding bikes all my life, and then being able to ride bikes off a cliff into a parachute and seeing, you know, the GoPro angle that is insane when you pop off the lip, and you see like three 400 feet of air underneath your front fender, just like the hell am I doing here? This is great. Just, it's a perspective that you can't manufacture you just you gotta go out there and do it. So it's, yeah, just taking different passions and merging them all together.
Nick VinZant 26:35
I'm always fascinated by logistics. Like, did you test the parachute on the snowbike first, did the snowbike work afterwards,
Cody Matechuk 26:45
I don't really have a budget to go like drop it out of a heli and test it. So the first test was just riding it off a cliff. You know, I hung it in my shop off a forklift to see like how it hangs under the parachute get the right connection points. But besides that, you know, I had the confidence going into the first one to know that I would be okay. But I didn't have the confidence to know that the bike would be okay. I wasn't sure how that was gonna go. But the way that it's connected to me, as long as my bike didn't stall or something going off the jump, I knew that I was going to be okay. So that helps, you know, breathe a lot of confidence into the whole situation of it. But yeah, now that you're watching the testing, that is testing right here.
Nick VinZant 27:34
So the one thing okay, I can only compare it to like mountain biking, because that's the only thing that I know about right? And like, in my mind mountain biking, okay, don't go over the front, right? Like don't go over the handlebars? Is there something similar with snow biking, right, you got to watch this part of it all the time. For
Cody Matechuk 27:53
sure, I think the biggest mistake I see from people right riding and jumping and learning how to do drops, is they kind of treat it like if you're going long on a dirt bike, where you land back tire and slap the front tire down. And if you do this off, even a six foot drop, it'll send you over the handlebars, and it scares people off of jumping because they're like, Oh, I can't do it, my bike won't do it. It's like, well, we just got to work on your body position and what you're actually doing in the landing, and we can make you jump these big jumps. It's not hard, it's just we got to change you. The thing with snowbike is you kind of got to land that like a jetski where you're like diving in and bombing out, it's like, you need it to land front ski first. And then it'll do like, you know, it'll go in and out and you'll bounce out of the snow. If you land backs or tail first, then what happens is your front slaps down, your ski folds up, and it basically hits the brakes on you and you go over the bars every time. So it's me, you know, it's just yeah, there's definitely it's finicky. And it's unnatural to land front ski first, especially into steep slopes. But generally that's what's needed.
Nick VinZant 29:14
That is kind of interesting right there. Like it's counterintuitive, at least to me, as I know, hit the front part first. Like when are we gonna flip over the damn thing?
Cody Matechuk 29:22
Yeah, no. It's the opposite of what you think.
Nick VinZant 29:25
Oh, that's cool.
Cody Matechuk 29:27
This a second gear stepped down. This is actually right across from the snow bike base. You're just watching, which is on the other side of the valley there. That's an old snowboard jump or not old but very popular snowboard jump and films and stuff.
Nick VinZant 29:45
It's beautiful out there. No, it's
Cody Matechuk 29:47
amazing. That's that's where you can go ride with Jeff Kyle and Pemberton mountain moto.
Nick VinZant 29:53
That's pretty much all the questions I got man. Is there anything that we kind of missed or anything like that?
Cody Matechuk 29:58
Um, I don't Think so I mean, the biggest, biggest advice through our whole conversation I would say is be open to trying new things. And if you're looking at going to do snow bikes, and go, it's it's amazing. The snow definitely plays a part in it. So maybe don't go right now in January if you're in BC, because it kind of sucks out there right now. But wait a couple, wait a month or so. And it's going to be pretty rad. And get out there and enjoy the outdoors. Because it's the places snow bikes can take you on the place is just saying yes, can take you are quite amazing. I want
Nick VinZant 30:35
to thank Cody so much for joining us if you want to connect with him, we have linked to him on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included his information in the episode description, if you want to see some of the things that he does, and they are very impressive and crazy to watch. The YouTube version of this episode will be live on January 18. At 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw, and get to the pointless part of the show. How long will you spend texting or emailing somebody before you're willing to call them? Minute? Five minutes hour?
John Shull 31:24
Not very long. I mean, I'm not going to put a minute limit on it. But if it's something that I need immediately, I call Hmm.
Nick VinZant 31:32
So you're taking it from like a work perspective, though. But what about somebody personally, because we've been texting back and forth, and I've called you and then you suddenly didn't answer the phone.
John Shull 31:40
So what was that? I don't even remember when that was? I
Nick VinZant 31:43
don't know. It's been a while dude, I didn't jot it down in my diary. Do you actually when you call someone, do you actually expect them to answer the phone? No, never. Do you think that you can just straight up call someone now? Or do you feel like you need to text them? And then call like, Hey, I'm gonna call you? No,
John Shull 31:59
but I think you're more apt to get response texting. I think texting has completely made us as a society disillusion from having to actually communicate with each other. Well, I'm
Nick VinZant 32:12
not sure I'm not entirely sure. I do think that every generation looks at the younger generation and new technology. And it's like, That's dumb. But back in my day, we didn't do it that way. Right? Like the generations older and you felt the same way that you feel about the generations younger than you? Or if we've actually like, oh, maybe we this is really a bad idea. And we should kind of bring actually talking to people back.
John Shull 32:32
Well, if we're gonna talk about how shitty the generations are now Oh, God,
Nick VinZant 32:38
I don't think okay, let's hear it because then I'll give you my spiel about it has to
John Shull 32:43
be said that there is something up with the generation that was after you and eyes generation because the Buffalo Bills there. They actually they're playing Monday or played Monday in the playoffs. They had to postpone that game because the Buffalo area got hit with like 40 inches of snow. crazy amount of snow, but apparently for Buffalo. That's, that's just like, Sunday. Yeah, they
Nick VinZant 33:04
get Lake Effect. They're my mother's from Niagara Falls, which is next to Buffalo. So don't talk to me about buffalo.
John Shull 33:09
Anyways, I'm not talking to you about buffalo. The Buffalo Bills needed people to go into the stadium and basically shovel snow off the seats so they could have the stadium ready for fans for today. They were offering $20 an hour to do so. Guess how many people they had show up to do it.
Nick VinZant 33:32
20. Close
John Shull 33:33
double that less than 50. But I'm thinking if you're a young person, why wouldn't you do that? You work six hours and make $120 Yeah, you're in the cold, you're shoveling snow. But like, why wouldn't you do that? I'd be all over that.
Nick VinZant 33:49
This is my rant about businesses. I don't like this whole rant about businesses. Because there's a business. You either profit off your product or you profit off of labor and businesses are used to profiting off of people's labor. And now that people don't want to do that anymore. Oh, they don't like it. Nobody wants to work. No. People still want to work, pay more money and they'd show up. I just think that's bull. I think that's all Bull.
John Shull 34:12
I mean, I don't I don't disagree with you on that part of it. I mean, businesses are, you're gonna have a whole podcast a year talking about businesses and how shitty they are. I'm just saying that your I mean, our generation, like, I'm not gonna go out there and shovel because I'm old, and I'd probably have a heart attack.
Nick VinZant 34:29
So you're criticizing younger people for doing not doing something that you yourself wouldn't do. I
John Shull 34:34
mean, like, I would do it. i You i absolutely love if Detroit the Detroit Lions are asking for volunteers on a Saturday night to do that. And I could I of course, I would do it. Just for the fun of it.
Nick VinZant 34:47
Maybe people don't like it, right, like maybe $20. And I think that you had to do it like overnight in the middle of the winter in the freezing cold. Really hard labor doesn't really sound appealing to people. charge more pay more money. I bet you'd have a lot more people show up. Oh, we don't wanna do that.
John Shull 35:06
I don't. I mean, I don't disagree with you these these NFL teams make. I mean, hell the Detroit Lions game was on? Or no, I'm sorry, not the Detroit was the Kansas City Chiefs game. Yeah. What streaming only? Like, are you kidding me? So I don't I don't disagree with you at all.
Nick VinZant 35:23
I don't have any problem with any generation, every generation is a product of their time. And if you took our generation and put it in the same age as this generation, now, we would be exactly the same. Same with the people who fought World War Two, same with every generation that you're gonna talk about. They're all products of their own time. And every generation feels the same way about the generations above them in the generation below them. And they always will. So I don't like whenever people are like, Oh, this generation today like we have, you'd be the same.
John Shull 35:50
You sound like such an old man right now. Also,
Nick VinZant 35:53
I pulled the audience up. Let's see. Let's see what the answer is. 48% of people said they would rather spend 10 plus minutes texting and emailing someone rather than calling them and that is a wide majority. 15% said they would spend less than a minute minute, one to five said 30%. That's where I am in the one to five rage. Five to 10 9% and 10 plus minutes. 48%. Yeah, do people don't want to talk to people? I wouldn't want to talk to me either.
John Shull 36:22
I mean, once again, right, right. We just talked about generations, right? Our generation was kind of what started all of this with texting and AOL Instant Messenger. So maybe you our generation is the problem. Maybe I'm the problem.
Nick VinZant 36:34
That's the thing, where you can't complain about younger generations, because you were some of the people that helped shape and mold them. So it's like as a parent, like their fault as a child is your fault as a parent.
John Shull 36:47
Are you getting real deep there? Yeah, dude,
Nick VinZant 36:49
it's tough when you really face reality and like, Oh, these kids do they suck, aren't they? Your kids?
John Shull 36:55
know our kids are the next generation. Right? If they suck, it's our fault. My children have no chance. So now they'll be
Nick VinZant 37:03
alright. Maybe fake like when your wife remarries, they get a cool stepdad. There'll be alright dude.
John Shull 37:08
Well, might happen sooner than what we know. All right, are we ready for shout outs are you got anything else?
Nick VinZant 37:14
No, I'm good. Let's see here. All right,
John Shull 37:18
let's see Logan Austin. Ace Gannon.
Nick VinZant 37:21
Wait is Logan Austin one person or is it two people is that Logan comma Austin or Logan? Austin. Two first is
John Shull 37:27
one. One person I believe just Logan Austin. Stefano effector Delaney Morrison. Kimber chi. Daniel selvagem. Casey Williams Morgan Abby. Thomas Guerrero. Jackson row. Christopher blend dizzy I don't know if I believe that's a real last name but still fine. I like names that end with like, you know, zi or like those Italian last names like you know, just they have some solidity? solidity solidity.
Nick VinZant 38:03
I don't like that. That was so bad. I don't even know what word you're trying to say. I couldn't even like validity. Sure. I yeah, you tried to say like, what word? What are you trying to say?
John Shull 38:17
Solid solidity? I
Nick VinZant 38:18
don't I don't know. Solid name, solidity.
John Shull 38:21
I was making shit up there. Must have anyways, let me just end this. This is embarrassing. Kara Tillman. Fred korphe? And Jeffrey Trembley. Okay,
Nick VinZant 38:32
is Jackson J A C K, or is there an accent Jackson? Only changes my opinion of Jackson depending on what the how the spelling is? Definitely
John Shull 38:42
Jack son. GjA CK Okay,
Nick VinZant 38:46
that's fine. J AC K S O n is okay. J x not acceptable that's gonna be a douche All right sorry if you're a Jackson listening to this you know
John Shull 38:58
I'm just thinking like you just offended every every Jackson that's listening this I suppose with him like that. He doesn't mean it. Alright, are you ready for this? This idea I have that you're going to have Oh
Nick VinZant 39:11
my gosh. All right. I think we survived in typical John fashion. It was supposed to be like three weeks ago, but it's today.
John Shull 39:17
Well, I've been having been having internet issues and I found out that it wasn't even my fault. Imagine. Oh, okay. So I have 10 topics. And literally, literally and we can scale it down. We can go up okay. Okay. I literally just want you to react to whatever I say. triple A batteries.
Nick VinZant 39:40
I've always wondered why there's not B batteries. Like why don't we have b like B batteries? I've always found that the answer is I don't have a problem with Triple A I'm more of a fan of double A batteries. Double A batteries are probably my favorite batteries, triple A batteries. Maybe I can I can put them in there. I like D batteries that makes you feel like you really doing something? Then you go down to AAA. I don't like the little watch once.
John Shull 40:04
You definitely made a good point there. I don't know why there isn't a B battery. I'm sure there has to be a B battery, the batteries. Alright, because
Nick VinZant 40:12
people would think You're stuttering, but that's probably why
John Shull 40:16
Condoleezza Rice
Nick VinZant 40:19
I don't even remember what she was famous for.
John Shull 40:21
Fair enough. The Iowa caucuses don't
Nick VinZant 40:25
care. Tell me when to tell me when the results are in, right. Like, I don't want to get into any of that stuff. I don't want to hear about it. I don't want to do all that stuff. Fair enough. Also, also, fuck. Here we go. Oh, here we go. Yes. Let's
John Shull 40:39
see. What's this? Come on the 17. That's all that's all we'll have to say. For this year's political cycle as fuck. Here we go.
Unknown Speaker 40:47
Here we go.
John Shull 40:48
All right. Maker's Mark.
Nick VinZant 40:52
Overrated. I've never liked that bottle. I like things that like I don't like it when you open a bottle and then there's still stuff left on it. I like things to be clean. Like if I open it, I want all this stuff off of the bottle. So all right.
John Shull 41:06
All right. Eminem, the singer rapper.
Nick VinZant 41:12
Is he that great of a rapper? To other rappers think that he's a great rapper. I mean, he's famous. I like some of his songs. But is he that? I see that like, where is he if he's not a white guy.
John Shull 41:28
I mean, I think lyrically in songwriting ability. He's up there. Obviously, I, you know, I think the color of his skin and the fact that he was able, the fact that Dre was able to pick him up, and he kind of, you know, I don't want to say crossed the lines, because that's the wrong thing to say. But the fact that he was able to be it to appeal to everybody is also what makes them that great. Yeah, I would I put them in my top five.
Nick VinZant 41:53
rappers. I don't know anything about if he's a good rapper or not. I don't particularly like a lot of his songs. That's just me. I just, it's not my I'm not that angry. I like happier music.
John Shull 42:05
All right. Well, speaking of happy volcano tourism.
Nick VinZant 42:11
Oh, well, yeah, that'd be awesome. But I want to know, I want to know exactly what's happening with the volcano. Right, like I want I'm not getting any discount volcano tours, right, like 20% off volcano tour right now. I'd like to pay full price. Right? You need five star reviews. All five stars.
John Shull 42:33
Robert Downey Jr.
Nick VinZant 42:35
huge comeback man. huge comeback. But I think that he I feel like that he got confused at some point in his life and actually thinks that he's Tony Stark. He's somebody that I feel like started playing a character and then became that character.
John Shull 42:51
Okay. I mean, I think he's used it to his advantage to not only help him personally, but professionally, who wouldn't want to pretend to be a superhero in their personal life, but Atawhai would have played one.
Nick VinZant 43:04
Why would you turn that job down? I think that'd be really hard to turn down any of those jobs. But I think that he's I'm trying to think if there's any other actor that would be like after they play a character now that's who they are. Well, Jim Carrey when he played the Hoffman guy, or Huffman or something like that. Kaufman, Andy Kaufman was him from then on.
John Shull 43:23
Yeah, I mean, yeah. Anyways, that's another part of this whole segment here. Hot air balloons.
Nick VinZant 43:32
No desire to do that whatsoever. Like, I don't like why did we invent this? Actually, hot air balloons are probably one of the worst inventions that we've ever had as a society like let's 10 People hundreds if not 1000s People have people in the air with a balloon and let's put fire below it. Like if an alien species came in and saw hot air balloons, they would be like, What the hell are you guys doing? Hot air balloons are the craziest thing we've ever invented.
John Shull 44:00
Fair enough. I don't even know how I came up with this one. Gas Station hot dogs.
Nick VinZant 44:09
Only one gas station. I'm going to eat food from his Kwik Trip Kwik Trip has pretty good food. Kwik Trip is kind of like the Wawa the race track the really nice gas station that people like I mean, it's it's not it's a gas station is ridiculous, but it's nice. Like okay, so like the 711 You're like, do I want to get gas? Yeah.
John Shull 44:29
All right, last one here. I think it's actually been quite successful so far. But we'll end on sanitary wipes
Nick VinZant 44:37
have used them nonstop in my life. I've literally never thought that I would be buying a carton of 900 sanitary wipes regularly with Costco orders.
John Shull 44:49
I'm actually right there, right. That if the pandemic gave me anything, it's the importance of cleaning surfaces with sanitary wipes.
Nick VinZant 44:59
Yeah, okay. All right, that was solid. How did you feel about some of those? Right? Is there anything that you mentioned there that you have a particularly strong opinion about?
John Shull 45:10
I mean, you made a good point about what? I'm sure there is a B battery. There has to be, but like, that's a good point. I always felt that AAA batteries are kind of pointless. I mean, double A's are where it's at. Volcano tourism to me just seems dumb. Too risky. And if you're one of those tourism towns on the edge of volcano, I just don't know what you're thinking. Yeah, now, I mean, I'm cool with gas station hotdogs. And I think Eminem is one of the greatest rappers of all time. So,
Nick VinZant 45:42
okay, here we go. We got quadruple A. So four A's, triple A double a half, ay ay. Ay. I've never seen any battery. I've never seen a plane a battery. There is a B battery. Oh, it's only in the United Kingdom. There's a C battery, which looks gigantic. D battery, F battery, which is like the size of a toilet paper. Oh my god. It's a huge S battery. There's an N, N A 23. And a 27. A duplex battery. Okay, well, I could go on about batteries for a while.
John Shull 46:19
I'm fascinated by stuff like that. I mean, listen, that D batteries, Z batteries would also be a good one. I accomplished my mission there. It was pointless. But it was profound. So
Nick VinZant 46:30
as a deep side, that's one of the thing right? By getting in the Find out the way that people think about little things. You can learn
John Shull 46:35
a lot about them. For sure. Absolutely.
Nick VinZant 46:39
When you hang up your shirts, do you go through the neck? Or do you go up? Do you go up through the bottom? Or do you go through the neck?
John Shull 46:47
Through the neck? Why?
Nick VinZant 46:50
It stretches out the shirt? Go up?
John Shull 46:53
Because I have like 40 of the same kind of shirt. So what do I care?
Nick VinZant 46:58
Well, you're ruining them. If you didn't ruin them, you wouldn't need so many shirts. You're gonna bake a neck your shirt. Why wouldn't you go up through the shirt? I don't understand that. No,
John Shull 47:09
no, it's fine. I do I have hanger markers on what you're looking at there. And I don't
Nick VinZant 47:13
know. I've just wondered about this because I saw my son who's learning up to hang on. He goes through the neck. I was like, that's not the way to do that. Go up to the shirt.
John Shull 47:20
Well be irresponsible dad and tell him what he's doing wrong.
Nick VinZant 47:25
I'm trying to learn him. I try to learn them. Right. Okay, alert him. Are you ready for a tough one?
John Shull 47:31
I am. I'm actually quite excited about this top five.
Nick VinZant 47:36
Okay, so our top five is top five foods that start with the letter A
John Shull 47:40
perfect well then I'm going to put angel hair pasta as my number five.
Nick VinZant 47:45
Okay, all right. I don't know if I really like angel hair better than spaghetti. I wouldn't ever really. I don't know if I would ever be like do you want spaghetti? No. Too thick. Give me the angel hair.
John Shull 47:58
No, I mean, did this just like you said there are there's not as many a foods as you think there are in terms of foods to start with the letter A avocado. I do I actually have that on my list, but it's a little higher up so I can come back to that.
Nick VinZant 48:15
Do you think that it's weird that I don't like avocados but like guacamole
John Shull 48:27
because it's you know, but in general, I might ask a question or two. Okay. All right. Well, we
Nick VinZant 48:36
can get to it when we get to your wherever yours is.
John Shull 48:38
Oh, I know for my number four is I hate tuna. Hmm.
Nick VinZant 48:43
That's the thing that I don't know the difference. If you were like, This is tuna. This is ahi tuna.
John Shull 48:50
I'm not even entirely sure that I know the difference, but I know that I've had ahi tuna and I love it.
Nick VinZant 48:54
So okay, mind number four is ale. Explain it. I'm not sure what that is. I don't know what ale is. I don't know the difference between ale and beer. But ale it starts with an A. Let's look it up. I'll look it up. Alright,
John Shull 49:08
while you do that, I'm gonna explain what ahi tuna is. It's a It's known for its high fat content, rich flavor and meaty texture while Tuna has a milder flavor and a softer with a more delicate texture.
Nick VinZant 49:23
Beer is a broader term encompassing various styles and flavors. In contrast, ale is a specific type of beer made with a different kind of yeast and fermented and a different temperature loggers versus ale so everything is essentially an ale or a lager, but it's all beer. Everything is so complex. Everything is so complex.
John Shull 49:46
I actually thought you're being a smartass. I mean, I know what ale is, but I thought you were gonna say no, it's some kind of cracker or something.
Nick VinZant 49:54
No, it's just ale. I thought you were Mr. beer snob.
John Shull 49:57
I like I said I'm you know Whatever my number three is. I'm going to put it as asparagus. It Oh, I am I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it.
Nick VinZant 50:12
That's like a big hard division. That's like a big hard. That's like a big division in society, people who like asparagus versus people who don't like experience asparagus.
John Shull 50:23
I mean, it's it's delicious when it's done right? When it's cooked, right, put in the airfryer for 15 minutes with some parmesan cheese, and some pepper. It's delicious. I have
Nick VinZant 50:37
strong opinions about food like that, where you have to do a whole bunch of stuff to it before it's actually tastes good. Like, No, it's good. If you put lots of butter on it and fry it and covered in chocolate and then it's really good. Like, is it?
John Shull 50:53
I mean, I don't I don't, I don't disagree with you. But asparagus is fine. It's It's good. It deserves to be at least in the top five of a foods.
Nick VinZant 51:00
My number three is apples.
John Shull 51:03
Okay. I have kind of that coming up.
Nick VinZant 51:09
Oh, okay. Okay, I see what you're going. Alright, what's your number two.
John Shull 51:14
So my number two is where I slotted in avocados. That's pretty high for avocados. Love them. And I mean, I'll eat a large avocado by itself. Let's see. Oh, it's so good. And you can put them on what salads. Rice, any I mean really anything except like dark meats.
Nick VinZant 51:35
I don't like that's the thing. I would never eat an avocado by itself. Like to me and avocado alone is disgusting. But guacamole is great.
John Shull 51:45
I mean, once again, you kind of just gave me shit about asparagus. But it sounds like you don't really like the avocado. You like it mixed in with everything else.
Nick VinZant 51:55
It's still the dominant flavor though. I feel like avocado is 70% of guacamole. flavor wise.
John Shull 52:04
Maybe what's your name? Okay.
Nick VinZant 52:05
What percentage are you gonna put it on there chef? Emeril, I don't know any famous chefs any morning. So people, that's the thing that we have really missed out on in society that I would like to complain about. There is not enough references about people when they do something comparing them to famous people. Like when somebody else used to talk about directions and you have give them directions, they would be like, okay, Rand McNally. Like that whole Gen that's lost on new generations. I just like Gordon Ramsay,
John Shull 52:32
I saw how you like gave me shit for the generation talked earlier. And look what you just did. There is a one person under 30 that knows what a Rand McNally is.
Nick VinZant 52:41
Now, I don't think so. I wonder they and you know how to read a map?
John Shull 52:46
No, probably not. And that's nothing to them. That's just their generation was not Google Maps. They wouldn't know how to do latitude longitude, any of that.
Nick VinZant 52:54
Do you know how to do longitude longitude? Like if I told you 23 clicks ease? Or something like that? Would you know how to if I showed you the longitude, longitude numbers? Would you know anything about where that is?
John Shull 53:04
Yes, I could find I could find it on a map. You could you give me the degrees. I could find it. It's not that hard.
Nick VinZant 53:14
What is 42 degrees north 83 degrees west. Rand McNally.
John Shull 53:21
I mean, like on the entire world, like I don't know. Exactly. Like if you were like turn to page 18 and find that I could find that. Oh,
Nick VinZant 53:30
I see what you're saying. Well, it's Detroit but since you don't live in Detroit anymore, you I could understand why he would.
John Shull 53:35
Whatever. My number one is apple pie.
Nick VinZant 53:40
Okay, apple pie is pretty good. Oh, I didn't do my number two though.
John Shull 53:43
That's Oh, because you just went on a fucking rant. That's right. Okay, fine.
Nick VinZant 53:48
That's fine. My number two is American. My number two is American cheese. American cheese is the best kind of cheese to me.
John Shull 53:56
You know what? That's that's actually a good one. That's I probably messed up by not putting us Diego cheese on my list.
Nick VinZant 54:03
God you're such a snob. You know what, honestly, I'll go cheese is like I couldn't even pick a like pick which one is Aussie? Algo. Like, I don't know. The only kind of cheese I can differentiate is like blue Swiss and American
John Shull 54:20
because one has holes the other has mold. And the other one's yellow. Right?
Nick VinZant 54:24
Right. That's pretty much it chatter. I could probably pick up shatter anyways.
John Shull 54:30
So I guess see that jumped the gun. I'll re say it but my number one is apple pie.
Nick VinZant 54:36
Okay, it's good. Solid number one. I think my number one is all you can eat buffet starts with an A. It starts with an A.
John Shull 54:48
It just it's kind of cheating but whatever. It's fine.
Nick VinZant 54:53
It's not like this list is going down and like the Hall of record. Only. What if somehow What if somehow something happens? And the only thing that survives media wise? Is this show? Like somehow that's all that survives 1000 years in the future people would be like, why? Yeah. Oh my god, could you imagine that? They
John Shull 55:26
they didn't used to have sex with robots what?
Nick VinZant 55:31
Why were they obsessed with all these top five lists?
John Shull 55:37
What what is? What's a fleshlight? Susan?
Nick VinZant 55:40
What is that? Man? These guys are like what is? Why was Jack son so much worse than Jackson? It's the same name. Could you imagine like, one
John Shull 55:53
guy doesn't even know how to follow the rules on a list and all you eat get all you can eat buffet is not an a word. And it
Nick VinZant 56:01
all starts with an A all you can eat buffet. How is it any different than apple pie, which is just a combination of words?
John Shull 56:09
Because if we're going to put if we're going to do that, like if we do T foods, you're not going to say Taco Bell?
Nick VinZant 56:17
Oh, yeah, I would. I mean Taco Bell is to say
John Shull 56:21
tacos. You just say talk like you could do a buffet for B, I guess. And then say all you can eat but I don't think my list. That's fine. It's fine. I'm not. I'm curious to see the graphic you pick out for it this week.
Nick VinZant 56:34
Okay, what's it? Do you have anything in your honorable mention? I have nothing. There's not as many a foods as you would
John Shull 56:40
think I had to. And then one that I just feel like I need to say so almonds and apricots. And then artichokes. Yeah, exactly. Arby's. Can I put Arby's on the list?
Nick VinZant 56:56
Yeah, I actually, I would accept Arby's. Arby's should be on the list. RVs doesn't get as much credit as it should. It's good food. It's just like, it gets made fun of too much. I think almonds apricots and artichokes are all the same thing where it's like, oh, you can eat that. But you want to like I want an apricot. Why? I could get a peach. It's way better. I'd rather have a nectarine than apricot is my lowest fruit on that kind of like looks like a peach scale. Peach number one plump nectarine
John Shull 57:33
than apricot. Anyway, do you have anything on your Agra mentioned?
Nick VinZant 57:36
No, not that you had. Oh, okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance. Leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. It really helps out the show. And let us know what you think are some of the best a foods. I think it's hard to beat like apples. Apple pie. All you can eat buffet. But if you're going to try to put asparagus up there. I mean, you better have a convincing argument.
Sex robots, virtual words and remote pleasure on demand. Futurist Ross Dawson says this is where our sexual future is headed. We talk the future of sex, the dreams and dangers that lie ahead and falling in love with robots. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Popular Things We Have No Interest in.
Futurist Ross Dawson: 01:14
Pointless: 31:21
Top 5: 53:55
Amplifying Cognition (Ross Dawson's Podcast)
Thriving on Overload (Ross Thriving on Overload (Ross Dawson's Latest Book)Latest Book)
Nick VinZant 0:12
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, the future of sex, and popular things we have no interest in, we
Ross Dawson 0:23
will and we do and we are falling in love with machines, there is the potential to create a better world. But there's also many dangers or haptics or other things where we can start to see that but essentially, these avatar base, six worlds will be very hard to distinguish visually, from reality in the not too distant future.
Nick VinZant 0:49
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest. This is sex futurist Ross Dawson, when we think about the future of sex, like what is that look like? Well,
Ross Dawson 1:18
sex is central to what it is to be human. It's, it's central to who we are. And a lot of it is about our relationship. So there's so many aspects to what the future of sex could be one one is this idea of remote sex. Well, we're not in the same location where you still want to give pleasure to each other. And so there's a whole array of tools. Some of these have been described as tele del Daleks, there's also virtual worlds where we can have avatars and represent ourselves or play in virtual spaces. There's also the idea of, of course, robots. And this is something we've seen in plenty in science fiction in various guises. But this is actually becoming very much to enter the present, where part of our sexuality is the we engage with people. And so now we have emotional companions, based on AI, which are proving that we will and we do when we are falling in love with machines. And so part of it is okay, well, how do we move from this chatting with something on a phone, for example, to you know, I suppose conversation or engagement or visual or, or physical aspects of that, and that's all unfolding. And yeah, there's a whole array of other possibilities, which includes, of course, ways of stimulating our brains directly to give each other's pleasure to be able to use haptic devices, things which can augment who we are. So these are actually the other point around the future sexes is not just about the technology, we are changing our attitudes to sexuality. And if it's from any number of measures, there's obviously a whole lot of people are more open about different genders, and people are more open about non monogamy, people are more open about, you know, kink, which used to be very kinky, and now is more normal. And so there's a lot of unfolding sexual, sorry, social changes. So there are technology change, there are social changes. And so sex is has been, is and always will be central to what it is to be human. And there's many facets of that are unfolding and part of the same more so potential. How can we express ourselves more? How can we discover more of who we are because our sexuality is so unique to us as individuals, but I think a lot of the future and what we hope the future is that we can express and expand our sexual identity and expression. If you
Nick VinZant 4:05
are kind of going to look at all of these things combined, right? When we kind of look at the future of sex, are we coming up to like big fundamental changes that will kind of fundamentally change the way we look at things? Or is this kind of just going to be adding to and augmenting the things that we already
Ross Dawson 4:22
do? Well, my opinion it is fundamentally changing because we will be what we already are falling in love with nonhumans in this case, AI. And so that changes the nature of our relationship. One very simple question, which often comes up is if you have sex with a robot, is that cheating? Or if you are having a conversation, intimate conversation with a app? Is that cheating? And what is God anyway and and so these these are they impact our relationships? which are at our core. Of course, this should always be all about supplementing, contributing and supporting, not replacing. Yeah, we don't want a world where everyone says, Oh, the robot itself was better than humans, they're easier, easier to deal with. They don't talk back, whatever. That's not a good world,
Nick VinZant 5:20
could we create accidentally create a world where like, all you're doing is having sex with robots and talking to fictional things, and there's no kind of need for human interaction with other people whatsoever,
Ross Dawson 5:33
there is the potential to create a better world, but there's also many dangerous and there are absolutely dangers that people start to say, this is easier, I prefer this, people will use these in positive ways to for example, say, Oh, well, I will discover in very safe environment, something which is, you know, how I feel, you know, different aspects of myself and my sexuality, how an Express which I can bring to the into my human relationships. But you know, I do respect those people who are who say, you know, the, the idea of robot sex is not good, don't like it, we shouldn't have that at all. But I don't think it's also something which we will, or even, you should sort of, say, draw the line and turn away from this. This is these are possibilities, we need to explore them. And we need to explore them with a view to making them positive.
Nick VinZant 6:28
When we look at kind of the things that you think that okay, this will have, these will have big impacts on the future of sex, which aspects of those like what things are kind of here right now that are already starting that ball rolling, so to speak.
Ross Dawson 6:42
So right now, in terms of this engagement, it is these emotional companion outs. And we've seen many people who basically are falling in love with their AI go friends or boyfriends. So there's actually an app in China, which has 600 million users, for their AI companions. And we're gaining traction in various ways here as well. And these are very, very good. One of the great things that AI can do is it understands what people respond to. And we are our technology already is at a level where we can readily make us fall in love with it. And so, you know, we do need to be somewhat amenable to that I have, I have seen some really interesting things from people who can describe themselves. Again, I'm just trying to work out this technology and working out and then they've ended up being emotionally engaged, surprising themselves from it, sometimes we can do, it's already there. And just in some of the other dimensions, in terms of remote sex, that's already happening, people already have, you know, sometimes quite simple, or sometimes a little bit more technologically advanced ways of being able to if their companion happens to be on an oil rig or on a business trip or whatever, that you can actually still give each other pleasure out of distance, using what are now quite a well developed technologies.
Nick VinZant 8:12
That's basically the idea of like, okay, somebody can use like a vibrator or a toy like that. And like, I can control it from where I am. And we can do that kind of stuff. Like that stuff doesn't seem like huge jumps from me. Where do we kind of get to like, okay, the big question about robots or creating fake body parts, or 3d printing somebody's whatever? And do that, like, do you think that that is coming up pretty quick? Or is that pretty far down the line, there's
Ross Dawson 8:39
a whole array of different technologies, some of them are quite soon, some of them are further down the track. I mean, so one thing, which I think is interesting, is using augmented reality to change how your partner looks. So he could, with permission of your partner, basically have some augmented reality glasses and make them look like Brad Pitt or Jennifer Aniston or whatever you have, you want whoever you pay, hopefully was first permission of the celebrities as well as your partner. And so these are things where, you know, obviously, feels a bit clunky with current generation, or when reality glasses but yeah, obviously IP rights and whatever but you know, certainly that's, that's quite possible now, terms of things. So which were to genetic modifications. These are these are certainly further out, you know, the sort of biohacking movements where you can, you know, change your body's significantly. This is something which is probably far fewer people are interested in is it's further out and be able to do these kinds of things. Then many more of these technologies are getting closer and part of the Next phase is in terms of, for example, the remote sex or avatar, virtual sex is haptics. Then so haptics refers to the sense of touch totally bodysuits where you can actually feel things at a distance. And so current technologies, it can quite a lot of this technology is being developed some time. And these are things which a little way off, so not next year or two, but we'll have consumer devices where you can put on suits, and when somebody can reach out and touch you at a distance, and you can feel it. Is
Nick VinZant 10:35
this going to be weird for us, though, right? Like what's going to be in your opinion, the bigger adjustment to technology are kind of the social adjustment.
Ross Dawson 10:44
people adjust to technology extraordinarily quickly. I think one of the most amazing things about humans are adaptable, we off, you know, things that seem like magic, then the day after it's there. It's like, oh, it's all hat. When we bring in sex in the equation, a lot of things to some people start to feel weird. So I think that a lot of people a lot of things, which I've said already, a lot of people will say, Wow, that's really weird, or wacky, or whatever. And I think some of those feelings will still remain, I mean, so for example, I think the idea of robot sex is quite a long way off. And I still think there's a long way even past where it's normal, and seems to be very, very similar to a human. But people still say that is really not something I would ever consider doing. Oh, really weird. But it also at the same time, will will grow in social acceptance,
Nick VinZant 11:39
the only thing I could possibly compare it to is the idea is like when texting first get became a big thing. It's like, why would you ever text anybody, we'll just call them. And now it's the exact opposite of like, why would you ever call anybody just text them? Like we do adapt to society very quickly. So like when we talk about, say virtual sex? Where do you think that we're headed in the realm of virtual sex, this
Ross Dawson 12:02
is where the technology can move very fast. So more broadly, I think that we will move into avatar based well, so meta, and its office environments is proposing we will have avatars of ourselves. And we will interact in office environments as as avatars. And so this is something where this is on the verge of being being accessible to everyone already, you know, I've had for at least a dozen years, virtual SEC swells, which rapidly advanced. In fact, one of the first uses of Second Life, which I think was launched in 2006, was, you know, playing in various ways in these spaces. So now the technology is really strong, we have some good glasses, we have good avatar representations. You can also just do it on the screen. And this is already very, very bad. We'll push that further. And part of them the next phase for that is to add physical interfaces to that which I'd say can be vibrators or, or haptics, or other things where we can start to see that but essentially, the avatar base, six worlds will be very hard to distinguish visually, from reality, and quite not too distant future. Technology is very, very fast on that front.
Nick VinZant 13:33
Is there any way in that kind of regard that like we're messing with something maybe that we shouldn't be messing with, right? Because I think that other things, you know, holding virtual meetings with coworkers, that's one thing, but I do feel like, you know, when we talk about sex, like we're messing with parts of our brains and our innate kind of personality that like we are geared to this, and we're not really great at controlling it? Can we bite off a lot more than we can chew in this regard?
Ross Dawson 14:01
Well, to a point, we don't know but I don't think we should be saying we don't explore there. And we can't find out whether these are right or wrong until we we get there. And as you know, I talked before this idea of expanding our sexuality. And so you can you know, there are people who with their partners go into virtual sex worlds to say well, okay, when we're in the bedroom together, we might be doing one thing, but we can actually see how we behave in these virtual sex worlds, which actually means well, here are some things which we could be bringing back into the real world. And this is ways where we can in a safer space, explore possibilities. Yeah, as an as I said earlier, you know, there are potential dangers, we have to recognize dangers of how we express ourselves or where we go Oh, but I think these are not problems of the technologies. These are things which we need to be aware of and ourselves, you know, we still need to explore the scope of who we are. We
Nick VinZant 15:11
usually don't get into this this quite this quickly. But I think a lot of the questions that I was going to ask you kind of centered around some of our listeners submitted questions. So are you ready for some harder slash listeners submitted questions? Sure. Who do you think is more affected by this man or women?
Ross Dawson 15:27
Who don't think this is what it is all losers? It's men have less choice, I suppose. And so yeah, there's classic thing that you have a substitute. So you're looking for these kinds of technologies as substitutes for having a real relationships, I think there's probably many women would argue the same thing, they find it very difficult to get the right man and you know, there's different there's also different relationships between the emotion and the physicality. You know, classically, we have seen, of course, far more of the love robots ones, which early on now are women with for men? There are there are some being launched now, which are men, male sex robots for women. And I think that it's, it's interesting to see that the, you know, there's still a relatively high proportion of pornography viewing is by women. And I think there's more of the a lot of this work a lot of this engagement. And I think a lot of these technologies will still be by women, it's not just male centered. The,
Nick VinZant 16:43
you know, the thing, I think we always see these trends, right, is that, like, I think I saw something that the day that something like 60%, of Men of a Certain Age, had not had sex with a woman, and then a lot of times, you know, it's not as much that people are kind of going through the traditional lifestyle of get married, have a kid that kind of stuff. Do you think that this would exacerbate those kinds of things are just kind of, no, we would change, we would adapt?
Ross Dawson 17:10
I think that for those who feel sex deprived, it's a boon. And as long as it doesn't become a substitute saying, I will you never have sex with a woman. But in the meantime, until I meet the right woman, whatever, that I've got something which makes me feel gives me pleasure and makes me feel better, and makes me feel engaged. And I think that's a positive. So if there is a deficit, and there's a lot of sexual deficit in the world, then I think that's moon.
Nick VinZant 17:41
This question just says, Is this gonna get really weird? In
Ross Dawson 17:46
a way it already is weird, and I think it is gonna get more weird in many views. But at the same time, we're going to start to think what we used to feel weird starts to feel normal. When
Nick VinZant 17:55
you look at it, when you look at the technology that's coming down, which one of those things would you say, Okay, this is the big one. This is the one that will really change how we look at sex?
Ross Dawson 18:05
Well, it is, in fact, in the emotional AI, nothing. That's really very, very strong focus on that at the moment, because we've just reached the threshold. You know, and I've said, for a long time, we will fall in love with robots. It's yeah, it's, it's been obvious to me for a long time. Now that's happening. And that's has many positives, potential positives, and also has many, many dangers. And if we, you know, that this recent event in San Francisco, where people talking about the dangers of AI, and I think it was Jerry Kaplan, who was saying that his I call that emotional pornography, I think, where, essentially, you people just get sucked into falling in love with machines, because machines is just so good at that, that we start to lose ourselves and get, you know, find this a better substitute do better than than human relationships. So that I think is there are there are positives there are real. I think there's a lot of potential upsides there's a lot of potential downsides. And that really is the big thing for me, because that is the heart of who we are our emotions, and if we started become emotionally engaged with the AI and AI, and God forbid that, you know, these emotional AI companions start to inject Besant messaging to influence us, then, that's not good. So we do need to be very careful as well, who? Yeah, who runs these algorithms? Yeah,
Nick VinZant 19:43
that's a real danger about that. Right? Like we fall in love with Stacy, the AI robot and then Stacy starts pushing Amazon products all of a sudden. Yeah, thank you. It's really, it seems like a thing that could get really complicated. If you were to kind of feet to the Fire, right? And we're recording this January 2024. If you were feet to the fire, what year would you say? All right, this is when, if we jumped in a time machine, now things would look unrecognizable to us in 2024 30 years,
Ross Dawson 20:15
or 25 to 30 years, if you really think about the right, the technology is required for that, you know, maybe we'll see some acceleration of robotics. But you know, this is quite a long haul.
Nick VinZant 20:31
What is your most controversial opinion, in the sense that like, you're just with your future as bodies talk and stuff over with some drinks? Like what opinion? Would you say like, you know, what, though, but this one?
Ross Dawson 20:45
Well, I was visiting spring, I don't know how controversial it is, is that humanity is going to fork into to, some people will choose to augment themselves. So they'll have brain implants, I'll have cyborgs you know, limbs, they'll, you know, essentially become more than human using a whole array of technologies. And there's a whole bunch of other people will just say, No, I'm not going to do that. So I mentioned the human race is going to fork into two, well, actually no more than two because people augment themselves in a whole array of different ways. But either will be augmented or augmented. And so your choice?
Nick VinZant 21:25
Do you think that it will change very significantly? Or do you think like, you know, what, we have all these things, but it'll still look a lot like today, I
Ross Dawson 21:35
see that the pace of change is accelerating. And for a long time, I've said, your old way, anything you asked about the future, is say, what is the future of humanity? Who are we becoming, and we are becoming very different, because we can change ourselves, we can change our biology, this is not just about, you know, prostheses of things we can we can now edit our DNA, our DNA. And not just those of our children, but our of ourselves as we are living. And we'll make ethical choices, you know, in regulations and circumvent those regulations around how we use these technologies, but we can literally change who we are, we can change our DNA, we can change our bodies, we can augment our minds. And that means that some aspects of what it is to be human, you know, this idea of transhuman, what does transhuman mean, and 100 years from now, I think that's completely unrecognizable today.
Nick VinZant 22:30
This one's kind of interesting along those lines, and they just simply ask, is this the first frontier or the last frontier for us?
Ross Dawson 22:38
This is the threshold. This is the pivot point in humanity, I think early 20s, early 2020s is where, you know, we have CRISPR technologies for DNA editing, AI is finally reaching a stage where it is a peer to us in various guises. And we'll see where that goes. And we have a whole the other robotics is reaching certain thresholds. So this is, you know, we're beginning to properly move into space exploration. So this is the threshold. I think, you know, you can I think then 100, or hopefully 1000 years from now I look back to just right around now was when we had the pre human history, and then when we have become moved into an entirely different phase. So you can imagine you as a futurist, I think there's a pretty exciting times that's, that's really the scope of what I believe we're going through now.
Nick VinZant 23:36
If you had to put your money on it, do you think we fully embrace it or fully reject it? Both.
Ross Dawson 23:41
So just point point, in case right now, we have in the AI discussion, we have now what are called the effective acceleration, this one eyes level of the spectrum, the others, they were described variously as the AI Dumas, or the de sel, or decelerations. And so the, the victory celebrations basically say, we need to go as fast as possible with absolutely no restrictions on anything. We've got to go as fast as possible. And the other inspection people saying, Hey, hold on. Let's, let's, let's, let's hold our horses a little bit now. Because we're not quite sure where we're getting into. And let's the spectrum now and that's going to continue to be the case we're going to continue to have this divide and it's as as bigger divide us any political divide you can imagine. So I society is divided now, between those people say, Hey, let's go Go, go go. And there's a whole bunch of people saying, Stop, get me off. And that's society. It's both of us. That's that's both facets of that fully expressed in society will continue to be so we control our evolution now. It's no longer just, you know, a Darwinian evolution. Yeah, Accidents of meeting and who has the most babies, whatever it's, we are choosing to evolve. And we better damn well make the right choices. That's
Nick VinZant 25:11
kind of leads us into one of the questions that we got was prediction you were 100 prediction you are most right about prediction you were most wrong about?
Ross Dawson 25:20
Well, in particular I was most, right about what most the one I'm most recognized for is the rise of social networks. So I wrote my book Living networks in 2002, which is before any of today's social networks existed. And it was entirely obvious to me that we were going to have our whole world of social networks and social media and it hadn't yet happened. And the one, the one, which I'm most passionate about, is, is the death of newspapers. So I predicted, so back in 2012, whatever it was, I think I don't remember the numbers. They said something like that. Newspapers would not be significant in half the year for every year, and there were a country in the world. I think us was 2022. And so newspapers still significant on us on paper.
Well, a lot of people say, yeah, there's lots of newspapers still around. So that was wrong, but I don't know how far off actually.
Nick VinZant 26:23
Yeah, like I'm so I'm a former journalist, and I kind of feel like like, wait a minute, you were wrong about that? I kind of feel like you were right, to be honest. Well, parents, do you when you look at kind of social media and things like that right now? Where do you think that that goes,
Ross Dawson 26:43
there's a lot of directions for that. One, one is through attention span, obviously, the shorter, shorter soundbite the video, the, you know, the constant constantly on. And a part of is also the richer engagement, where we start to share? Well, potentially even thoughts, so unique about thought devices, we're able to share, and to be able to start to share aspects of what we see how we see it, how we're thinking. And, but I mean, I think in the shorter term, a lot of the interesting thing is actually what happens with the social media giants as in matter and acts, and so on as to whether they are transcended in by why. And I think that, you know, a lot of that is currently happening already with that very short time slice type content. But I hope that there is a shift, where we start to see that far more of the control of our own data, essentially, starts to really start to see some of the networks, federated social networks and so on, which start to give us more choice and where we can choose to engage on our own terms.
Nick VinZant 28:11
What do you think a tick tock because that was the one that like, Okay, some of these other social medias that popped up is kind of the same thing. But that was the one that I felt like, oh, this, there's something about this that is different. What do you think about it? Yeah,
Ross Dawson 28:23
it's, well, that's the short attention span thing, short, video, quick, Punchy. And so that's in a time of shorter attention spans, and engaging content that's kind of one out. So you know, this is a kind of Darwinian battle, where you have all the social media, networks and whatever sort of starts to grab people's attention, and younger people's attention. Tic TOCs worn out on that, as to whether something was transcends Tik Tok in terms of being even shorter and faster. And by the year, we'll yet see because essentially, as soon as anything's ever happened, people have copied it and push it up one and tick tock has been that I mean, I'm not sure how much how much shorter we can get in terms of attention span stuff, but that's that's really, tick tock has taken a Vanguard because of that, that's, that's the world we live in.
Nick VinZant 29:22
Some of the other listeners may have questions that we had, what, when you look at kind of movies and TV shows like which one do you think shows the best representation of what you think the future would be?
Ross Dawson 29:33
Or what is her movie Her which is I think, that brilliant movie and that bill was so spot on and building building up that emotional companion. But the other thing, which was I loved about that movie was, the cars look the same, the streets look the same. It was kind of like we're in the future. But it's the watch changes the way in which we interact, not the symbols. So if you go back to look at The 1950s and their predictions of the cars of the future, they were like 1950s cars sort of just bigger and more streamlined and so on, they didn't weren't able to envisage that things were actually going to become completely different. You can tell that they were 50 scars, even though they're supposed to be from the future. And so, I think yeah, hairs actually was great, not just in just this spot on depiction of the emotional companion, and how that could work. But also around this fact that, you know, the physical nature of the world doesn't necessarily become all, you know, Minority Report.
Nick VinZant 30:39
I want to thank Ross, so much for joining us, if you want to connect with him, we have linked to him on our social media accounts. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram, and YouTube. And we've also included his information. In the episode description. He has a lot of more information on his website, and also a podcast of his own, that I think is really interesting, and a great look at the new technology and the new trends that may be affecting us in the future. And if you want to see more of this interview, the YouTube version of this interview will be live on January 11, at 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now, let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of this show. Would you have sex with a robot?
John Shull 31:32
I mean, there's gonna have to be some determining factors in the way that I answer that question. Am I with somebody,
Nick VinZant 31:38
you're by yourself, you just have opportunity to have sex with a robot that has all of the requirements and the things that you would need, but you know that it's a robot? I
John Shull 31:48
don't even want to ask this question I'm going to, are they going to talk to me? At all?
Nick VinZant 31:53
Only if you want them to it's a robot, you can program it to do whatever you want?
John Shull 31:57
Am I a lonely old man? Or am I a thriving 20 year old? I
Nick VinZant 32:02
don't really think that your age matters necessarily. I don't think it matters how much you're getting, there's still a possibility that you might hook up with a Sex Robot, I'm gonna say that you are in the current situation that you are in now. You are a married man in your mid 30s.
John Shull 32:17
My heart wants to say yes. But I will say I will say no, if that's the case. Now, if I'm not married, if I'm single, or even recently divorced, or something sure that I that I would, I would probably say, I'll give it a whirl. But I don't think I don't think it would be enjoyable. I just I can't see a robot being enjoyable.
Nick VinZant 32:41
I don't know if I would do it. Or if I wouldn't do it. I really don't know what I would do. I think that I I think that I would at least I don't know. Because to me, it's like, Look, man, sometimes you'll see like anime, or sometimes you'll see some pictures of like cartoons would be like, Oh, that's yeah, like, that's cool. But I'm not going to do it to that. Like, there has to be an aspect of humanity in it for me.
John Shull 33:09
I mean, I don't really necessarily care about the human product, humanity part of it. But it probably would have to be literally a woman or, you know, for me, it would have to be a woman. Like, like, I would have to know it's a woman, like there would be no robot showing or anything. You know what I mean? Like, as soon as I thinking that it was a robot or like, if I saw like a piece of metal X exposed somewhere, then I'd be like, Oh, shit, what am I doing with my life?
Nick VinZant 33:42
I could, man, you'd have to completely buy into it. And
John Shull 33:46
I'd probably have to be an eBay created or extremely high. Knowing that like this is this is where I've gotten to. And listen, if any of you out there have sex with robots, or whatever, you know, good for you. But I don't think I could do it.
Nick VinZant 34:00
If this becomes completely like popular, though, like completely accepted. Do you think they're going to take over society? Like would young John be like, Well, why would I need to get in a real relationship when I can just have this robot? So that's
John Shull 34:15
how the human race gets eliminated, isn't it is people just stop having sex with each other? And they start having sex with robots because robots can basically do what you need them to do and then they don't want to stick around. Right? can throw them in the in the closet so to speak, you know that you don't have to cook them dinner. You don't have to worry about paying for anything.
Nick VinZant 34:36
It's essentially like a lady of the night. It's essentially a sex worker that you don't really have to do anything besides put some oil in it. That would
John Shull 34:47
what would those even run on sex robots like for real like,
Nick VinZant 34:51
man, that's really what the thing is that I'm slightly surprised of is that the very first kind of robot we didn't design was a Sex Robot. If you were trying to make a business out of robotics and you wanted to make money as a robot person you would think the very first thing that you like we can design this like no man make a Sex Robot everybody's gonna do that that's the best moneymaker
John Shull 35:13
they have some kind of robots I wouldn't call them robots right their toys right like the Fleshlight, and I believe there's even like there's a bottom half of a woman that you can buy probably men too at this point.
Nick VinZant 35:27
But when you buy flashlights of men's buttholes can you get right like because you can get a flashlight of like a popular porn stars. genitalia? Can you get like a flesh line of like a popular man's butt? That's a good Brad Pitt's but
John Shull 35:48
that's a great question like, are a great thought. Could you imagine having your, you know, penis just molded and sold 100,000 of them to random women to have you know pleasure themselves with like, like, like
Nick VinZant 36:03
what? We had a sex toy designer on here a long time ago. He said that apparently that like women want really much smaller things than men think that they do. Like they don't want the big ol honker. They want a little John.
John Shull 36:17
You think they have like a micro penis one? Oh, I
Nick VinZant 36:20
don't know. I mean, there's gotta be logged man. It doesn't just like there is a shape for every size, right? Like a little, like a little one inch. You're just like, No, I want the micro pain. Maybe I'm sure why not. Man, whatever you get down with. That's how you get down. You like me? You like the half inch and go for it. Maybe somebody wants not hating
John Shull 36:41
on it. I just don't know how it's pleasurable. Anyways, getting back on how would you
Nick VinZant 36:45
feel if you were the model? If you were the model for the micro penis? How would you feel if they were like, John, we need to make a micro penis model. And we heard that you're the guy. Like, would you be proud? You're like, who's the model for this best selling micro penis? John Shaw,
John Shull 37:07
I think I think wouldn't be worse is like they have auditions, right to be molded. But you don't know like what size you're for. And you get a call. And you're like, oh, yeah, you're all excited. And they go well, actually, we're really excited but the mold that we're going to fit you for you classify you'll be the micro penis.
Nick VinZant 37:27
Oh, we were looking for a deformed one. And like you're the model for that because here's like hooks 90 degrees to the right. That would be incredible. Like you show up like, yeah, we you were selected. most disappointing penis like,
John Shull 37:44
I mean, I don't really want to know, but I am kind of interested. Now as we discuss this strange topic, like how many people actually use like the fake vaginas? Or the you know, the fake penises like, but not like just the toys. I mean, like, the ones that are supposed to emulate actual body parts. In terms of like, there might be some hips with it, or, you know, maybe some legs. Oh,
Nick VinZant 38:14
that's not a huge number. The online revenue of fleshlight.com amounted to 72 point 3 million in 2022. So that's not it. That's not crazy, right? Like that's not who a huge amount. Another website says 4 million have been sold. That's from 2011. That's pretty old. And then in 2017, they said they sold 400,000 a year.
Unknown Speaker 38:43
That's a lot of flashlights, man. Yeah. But like if you take
Nick VinZant 38:47
that across the population of the world, right, like selling 400,000 and world population of 8 billion, that's not a lot. So it's like I would say that that's not common, but not uncommon. Like they're not selling a lot, but they still sell a lot.
John Shull 39:02
I want to know if anyone out there that listens to this, and you're a I don't know it construction worker, cop firefighter. Have you ever been in a situation where you're going to do something and you just come across a random flashlight? Like oh, we gotta go arrest this guy used to walk in and there's like six flashlights all laying around. Let me and
Nick VinZant 39:24
I don't think I know somebody that has want that as why no two people that have one actually, now that I think about it. I don't think that you can you cannot own more than two of those. You can do whatever you want. However you get down is however you get down. But you cannot own more than two of them. You can't
John Shull 39:46
I mean, I'm laughing I'm laughing because it is kind of an uncomfortable, comfortable topic to talk about. I don't I mean, if that's how you get down great. But with what you just said I would like to know what are the dishwashers They've like how do you clean them?
Nick VinZant 40:01
If you have to wash them out? You got to wash them out? Do you just rinse them in the sink where
John Shull 40:06
you brush your teeth and shit like
Nick VinZant 40:09
that anyway, that would be so strange for a child to find like, what's this? You got to hide that sucker? Right? Like you got to have a gun safe. And then you got to have another safe like that needs to be hidden away. And we should we should we should go.
John Shull 40:23
Yeah. Anyways, yes, ultimately, I would have sex with the robot if it came down to it. How about you?
Nick VinZant 40:32
I think that I probably would. But it would, it would take it would take a while I'm not going to be the first in line. Could you
John Shull 40:42
imagine like in 20 years, like the big Christmas presents for adults are like, you know, generation six of you know, Leila. There's just a light outside of like,
Nick VinZant 40:55
where are you getting it? Like right now you gotta have that shipped to your house and everybody damn well knows what it is. Right? Imagine the UPS person is just like, Ah, man, this guy bought another one. Right? They know what it is? All
John Shull 41:11
right. Let's get some. Let's get some shout outs here. Ace Gannon, what do you think about the first name of Ace? I'm sure that's not their real name. But it could be you
Nick VinZant 41:21
need to be some sort of pilot or a real estate agent to have a name like that. Here's a
John Shull 41:31
secondary question what you just said. Do you think fighter pilots? Ah, fuck it. I'm gonna say a pilot's in general. Do they have to have a leather jacket?
Nick VinZant 41:42
They need to own one somewhere. They don't have to wear it necessarily, but it needs to be in there. It needs to be in the wardrobe at some point. You have to have a leather jacket.
John Shull 41:52
All right. Cole Iverson, Gabrielle Roy Blatt. Stefano fetter, Delaney Morrison. Kimber, P. Kimber is another name. That's a little, little different. Daniel selvagem, Casey Williams, Thomas Guerrero, Jackson row. And we will end on Ethan Lygon. And Logan Thompson, who Logan Thompson's handle is CEO of stupidity, which kind of goes along with Profoundly Pointless to a certain degree. So.
Nick VinZant 42:25
So does that mean that he's like the stupidest person or he's just in charge of the stupid people?
John Shull 42:30
Well, apparently, he's a guitarist of a band that I don't know how big they are. But so he can't be. You know, he can't be that dumb. I don't think I'm probably not dumb at all. So.
Nick VinZant 42:41
So he's just in charge of the stupid people. Okay, well, that's fine. Somebody's got to do it.
John Shull 42:46
This a great this a great debate, I think, and we don't have to have it, but I'm gonna say what I what I feel is that yes, the lead singer is technically they get the most Limelight right, they get the attention. But when you get down to actual music, creating it, doing it, I feel like the lead guitarist is the real leader of the band. And I say that I'm probably completely wrong. But I could probably point out five or six examples to back my point.
Nick VinZant 43:16
I think whoever is in charge of kind of the beat, whoever is making the beat behind the lyrics, that's probably the most important person, because you can kind of get the lyrics don't matter that much. I mean, sometimes they do, they can set the tone for the song and they can match the song. But I think that whoever's kind of putting the beat together is the most important person.
John Shull 43:36
I mean, it's hard to argue that, how about we just end it like that we'll say every band member is important, except for the bassist. Now, you can basis can be anybody.
Nick VinZant 43:46
Yeah, or the person like hitting the triangle? Like, what's your job? I'm just the cowbell guy. Like, you're not, we don't need you that
John Shull 43:54
much. I was wondering that, like, when you go see live music. And there's like the guy that you know, has the keyboard where he just hits the same key for one song. And then he stands up three songs later and hits the triangle. Like, does he actually get paid a good amount? Like does he travel?
Nick VinZant 44:11
That's a good question, right? Like, if you had those guitarists, the lead singer, the drummer, and then the person who just plays the triangle, Are you splitting the profits? 2525 2525? Are you gonna be a no man, you're only getting like 10. Like you're not getting 25% for playing in two songs. And I think that's how bands break up. That's how bands break up.
John Shull 44:33
I actually think this is a great question to ask you. So Mazal include this one. So here we go. Is being in a band is difficult. That's the first part of the question. Secondly, is it harder to keep it sustainable for more than a decade? Because most bands during their first runs do not stay together? That long?
Nick VinZant 45:00
I don't know. I mean, I've never been in a band is the short answer to your question like I've never been in a band so I don't really know but I the only thing that I can say to that is like I have this theory that essentially any band no matter how good they are, really only has like, one and a half albums. You've got the one that introduces you, and that might be your best or it might be lead up to the next album that is really good. I think that they only have like one and a half good albums. And then it's kind of like maybe you'll get a song out of that album. But name me like the musical the band that's like me in that whole they've got three good albums.
John Shull 45:44
I mean, but as it's gonna be up for such debate, though, that's the thing because music is you know, you like music or you don't like music. So like I could say like, Okay, I'll say one bad TierPoint Hootie, and the Blowfish, right? I think they
Nick VinZant 45:57
only gonna fucking choose is Hootie and the Blowfish?
John Shull 46:01
Well, for one band that had like one record, and oh, yeah,
Nick VinZant 46:05
I see what you're saying. I had one massive record. And that was it. Yeah. Yeah.
John Shull 46:09
I mean, I think it's easier. Yeah, it's to your point, I think it's easier to name bands like that, than bands that had, you know, like, you could say, queen, I think queen had multiple albums that had that were successful. I mean, the Eagles even though I think the Eagles only had like five or six albums that they actually released. I mean, I'd have to look at like Zeplin I know, they had multiple albums. I don't know how commercially successful they were, you know, it's, yeah, I think there's far fewer of that than like one and DUNS, but people will remember the one and done so then it seems like bands will use hoody as a as an example. Do it tour 10 years later, they all break up. And then they come back together and their 40s 50s and 60s and make even more money because people go see them for two years straight. You know what I mean? Well,
Nick VinZant 47:01
you get on top right? Like you get on top, you think that you got the world you think that you can do whatever and then you realize that you can't that you need other people then you come back together later in life.
John Shull 47:11
It's better to be on top than on the bottom. Hey, Oh, bless Your Sex Robot. What have sex robots become so realistic, that they can do that, like top, you know, doggy, different
Nick VinZant 47:25
things that we're far away from that. I don't think that we're that far away from it. I mean, in like a historical time periods not going to happen like next week, but I think in the next 20 years, like we're gonna be there. I can just oh, it's gonna be virtual.
John Shull 47:38
I can see the people that are listening to this that may be interested in these just you know, immediately googling right now Sex Robot companies.
Nick VinZant 47:45
Yeah, man, I would invest in that. That's a good investment. Pour all my money into Sex Robot companies, because that's common, and that's going to be popular.
John Shull 47:53
Alright, let's another theoretical question for you. Are you the kind of person you go to the gym? Correct?
Nick VinZant 48:01
Can't you tell?
John Shull 48:02
I well, I only see you from like the neck up most days. But yeah, you're looking school. your hairline is great. Still. Looks good. That's all it matters. Yeah, mine girls like a fucking Chia pets. Anyways, people that go to the gym, midnight to 4am. What are you thinking there because I happen to be at the gym, which I just started regaining clap to myself and claps to all the people out there that are doing the same thing. Trying to make yourself better physically. But I have to go late. And I gotta tell you, the clientele after midnight. It's a little weird. I mean, it's not what I thought at all, a lot of a lot of hooded sweatshirts. Pretty sure I somebody was sleeping on the calf raise machine like it was it was different.
Nick VinZant 48:52
I don't really want to be at a gym between midnight and 3am. Right? If that's your thing, that's your thing. But if you're going to any kind of business that is not a bar or restaurant between the hours of 12 and three, you're going to see some interesting people that are there. I don't understand how anybody works out any other time than first than the first thing in the morning. I really don't understand how people do that. Like I would never have the motivation to work and then go to the gym. I could never do that. I got to do it first thing in the morning. Get it over with
John Shull 49:22
it's, I mean, yeah, well, and then if you have a family, if you have other responsibilities, I mean, it's practically impossible. Or if you have a job, I guess maybe if your job is like five to one or four to noon or something like that would be the sweet spot get out of work. Go to the gym and like one at 1pm That would be the sweet spot but most of us don't have those those hours. Yeah, anyways, that kind of shocked me because like I hadn't been in the gym in quite a while and I just like go, oh boy.
Nick VinZant 49:52
The gym is a place where you can see some interesting people doing some interesting things.
John Shull 49:57
Okay, Are thing, and I'm gonna sound really pompous here and I'm sorry,
Nick VinZant 50:03
you've been to the gym for days and right now you're judging people.
John Shull 50:07
I used to go a lot. So I'm, I'm gonna try to change. But if you weigh, let's say over 300 400 pounds and all you're doing is calf raises. Not sure that's the most, you know, workout that you should be doing. But no one says anything. And I just don't get it. You know, but I guess they're they're right. That's the important part as my wife scolded me about. They're there. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 50:38
dude, they're there. So they're doing something that's better than nothing. I mean, maybe it's not the best use of their time. Maybe they could be doing something else. But it's better than nothing. Do something. Well get some big ass calves, man. Maybe they're just starting with the low body working all the way up. You're gonna get huge calves and then they're going to do the rest. I would never give anyone advice at the gym. I would never give anyone advice. Unless I saw like somebody doing something that was like, You mean you're gonna hurt yourself? When No, I wouldn't even do that then. I don't think that I would see anybody. If somebody was doing the benchpress with 225 pounds lifting it up and then dropping it on their chest. Just straight dropping it on themselves. I don't think I would be like I don't think that's how you do that. I will still wouldn't say anything. But like well maybe you're doing something I don't know about or something else getting punched in the chest.
John Shull 51:29
If that was happening Yes, I would go over and help. Or if someone looked like they were you know, struggling or about to drop, you know, a barbell or weights or something. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 51:38
if they were in danger if they were doing that on purpose. I don't.
John Shull 51:42
But you know, I the one of the greatest inventions of the last 50 years, the the air pod now allows me to basically just block out all noise and listen to loud music and I don't have to worry about anything else. It's the best.
Nick VinZant 51:58
I don't I think I might be I'm gonna say this. I might be the only person that I know or have ever seen that works out regularly and does not listen to music. I mean, I don't bring anything to do. I don't listen to anything. And if I'm on like an elliptical machine, I don't watch TV.
John Shull 52:27
That that is like you have no you have no other stimulus other than doing the like if you're on the elliptical like that's probably the most boring. It's great. By the way. Listen, I'm not saying if you're doing it and Fantasma for you, but that's boring. Like how do you stay motivated?
Nick VinZant 52:44
I completely zone out completely and totally zone out
John Shull 52:48
is pumping the legs and the arms and that's it huh?
Nick VinZant 52:51
I literally stare at the numbers I can completely zone out like
John Shull 53:00
I I usually take off like a sweatshirt or like or something and I'll put it on actually cover the display. Because like if I look and I'm already painting which happens as soon as I start going, I'm like I have 29 minutes left like what the hell the hell so? Yeah.
Nick VinZant 53:20
You got to embrace the suck I embrace the suck I don't want you to be happy.
John Shull 53:27
Well listen, I'm proud of you for going can see it your traps look great.
Nick VinZant 53:33
Then listen solid do straight traps 75 sets a week at traps okay, we're not talking about what you talked about weather in your fucking house last episode now you're just trying to talk about the gym. We've
John Shull 53:46
been talking about the weather if we want we got our first snowfall. God
Nick VinZant 53:49
let's go fucking
John Shull 53:51
about time. Let's go into our top five. So
Nick VinZant 53:54
our top five is popular things we have no interest in doing. What's your number 5k Pop Oh, I don't even know what that is.
John Shull 54:05
I mean essentially stands for Korean pop right and it's it's it's not really that new K Pops New but like the how do I say this off sounding like a complete Nimrod, other other countries, other societies cultures whatever, always emulate and Americans have done it the same right? Like when the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC were popular. You had the Great Britain do it right with Spice Girls and beats UK it's not it's not new to try to emulate those type of things. But man Kpop to like I just I just I I don't care like if it never existed. I think it's I just don't think it's good music and whatnot. But it's it's not made for us right it's made for teenagers. And but yeah, have no interest could care less never will willfully listen to a second of it.
Nick VinZant 54:56
I can't think of a single song or person or anything like that. I know that there's some really famous band that's out there that they're talking about, but I have no idea who it is. My number five is bungee jumping. I have no desire to ever go bungee jumping. And I've been skydiving but no desire to go bungee jumping whatsoever. Yeah,
John Shull 55:16
so my number four actually is skydiving. So kind of along the same lines, I have no desire. I have no desire to do either, to be honest. But I really have no desire to ever go skydiving.
Nick VinZant 55:29
I could go skydiving one more time, maybe. But bungee jumping. I'm just like no interest in that whatsoever. None. My number four is going to a football game. I have no desire to go to a football game. It looks like why would I ever go there when I can just watch this on TV? I don't I don't understand that at all.
John Shull 55:51
I don't I don't necessarily agree. I understand what you're saying. I don't agree with that. I think that you know it. There's a couple of factors if you're a fan of the team, being live and in person or to an actual live event with 80,000 other people that agree with you and atmosphere is insane. I also think if you're a sports fan, you need to attend a live event, at least one of them for the sport you care about because live sports are pretty awesome.
Nick VinZant 56:17
I can see going into the atmosphere. I've enjoyed that. Like I've lived in a city where they had a Super Bowl and I've gone down to like the Super Bowl festivities. But as far as like going into the and watching the actual game. Like why would I go to the game? I could just watch it on TV.
John Shull 56:34
Yeah, I mean, it's it's the same thing for like me and wrestling events. Right? watching it on TV is much better than sitting 500 feet away. But it's, you know, it's it's the ambiance, right? It's the crowd, it's everything else. My number three going to like a beer festival. Hmm. Solely, solely for the purpose of I don't want to wait in line for beers. And all the beers I go there to try already gone. So I don't it's just not it's not good. I never want to do it. My
Nick VinZant 57:09
number three is along those lines. It's farmers markets. I don't know why people go to farmers markets. It's not that good. It's overpriced. It's just what like, what's the fun about this? I don't understand why like, oh, let's get this why you could go to the grocery store and get something that's probably better for a third of the price like farmers markets boggle my mind. Yeah, there's
John Shull 57:32
definitely there's definitely something about, you know, the boom of the farmers market. I mean, they're everywhere now and you go in it's the same thing. It's crowded. It's the same product. It's just, yeah, yeah, no good. No good. No bueno. Okay, sure. Number two, I think this one is gonna bother you. But I put on the list not to bother you. But that's how I feel. I have absolutely no desire to go skiing or to snowboard. I've noticed or to do anything like that. Hmm.
Nick VinZant 58:05
I can understand it. Like I can understand it a little bit. But I it is fun.
John Shull 58:13
I have no issue with I'll stand outside and drink a beer or hot chocolate or something while other people do it. But I just I don't think I would enjoy doing it.
Nick VinZant 58:27
I go skateboarding or skateboarding. I go skiing or snowboarding probably once, maybe twice a year. It's kind of cool to be outside doing it. But I can't honestly say that. It's like that was really fun. Because there's just too much like, I'm not good enough at it that I can really enjoy it. I'm just slightly uncomfortable the whole time. So I can see why he would say that. Well, thank you. My number two is celebrities. I have no interest in celebrities lives. Like I can understand why they would get interviewed or why people would want to hear them talk about their craft. But why we asked celebrities or care what celebrities think about like world economic policy just boggles my mind. Like why are we asking these people questions about things they have nothing about? They have no connection to our lives. Like what is the wealthiest, richest famous people in the world? What kind of insight do they have to offer you that can like oh, yeah, they're nothing like you. I don't know why we talk to them.
John Shull 59:30
I know I've said this on here before but I will never forget when the pandemic started. And Justin Timberlake was quoted as saying, Man, this 24/7 parenting thing is hard.
Nick VinZant 59:44
That's why I don't understand. I don't understand why we ask them questions about life. They have no connection to real life and have no knowledge about things that they get asked about. Like I don't I don't get that at all. Like what is this person? Think about this. Do they know anything about it? No. Yeah, right.
John Shull 1:00:02
It's, or Yeah. Or if, you know, like, if this is the easiest thing to piggyback on but like the, you know, Israeli Israeli Hamas conflict, every actor actress that, you know, was Palestinian or Israeli got the same question. How do you feel? I you know, I don't know, I haven't I don't have any family over there. I've never lived over there. I'm just Israeli, you know, or whatever. Like, I mean, it's yeah, it's, it's this kind of ticks a box for me because it's everything man from politics to celebrities. It's like, no one's in tune with us, right? Like no one, it's, they're just so far removed because they live that life and that's fine. They deserve it. They're celebrities, whatever. But in terms of their opinions, they don't. They mean so much to everybody, but not to me. My number one is kind of along those lines or lines, but I went more specific. And I said, like social media influencers, mind, like specifically a kid named Jack door Doherty. I don't know if you've heard of him. Like he goes around basically trying to start fights with people. But he has these big ass security guards behind him. That, you know, he's I don't know if he's British, or whatever. He's just this little guy. And it's just like, like, that's what people want to see. Like, how did he ever get popular? I just don't. He's just the first thing that comes off the top of my head, but it's just it's like that. Like, how is how is that grounds to make you famous? I just don't get it. I
Nick VinZant 1:01:30
always felt very weird about any of those kinds of like influencers or things like that, where it's like a 29 year old who appeals to kids and nine to 12. Like, that's always weird to me. Like, why are you doing this? That's odd. I always felt that that was weird. My number one is coffee. I think it's disgusting. I have no interest in coffee whatsoever. It's gross. It's expensive. It seems like a thing that once you do it, you're in it for life. So I just have no interest in coffee or wine. Both of those are totally disgusting to me. I've
John Shull 1:02:05
actually I just gave off cup gave up coffee. And I had some pretty severe headaches, to be honest with you, but
Nick VinZant 1:02:14
oh, yeah, caffeine is a real thing, man. That's it. That's it. That's that's brutal. Yeah, I
John Shull 1:02:18
don't. Yeah, I don't.
Nick VinZant 1:02:19
Why don't you give up coffee? Shouldn't you give up Oh, things first,
John Shull 1:02:24
all part of the physical news I received, which I'm going to I'm going to tell you one snippet, which will make you laugh. So I got full panels done. And if you've ever had a physical you know what that means? I won't tell you but the doctor and she's our age. She's a woman doctor, and we're talking and she kind of made a joke about how and I don't know if this is right, but how white I was right how Caucasian I am. If you loosen, she's like, do you get out? Do you ever see the sun? I'm like, the sun hasn't been out in two fucking months here. So anyways, she does a vitamin D test on me. My levels for vitamin D. Like your eye, you're supposed to be between like, maybe let's say 50 and 100. I was at a four.
Nick VinZant 1:03:10
Oh, god. Yeah, I had like a problem.
John Shull 1:03:13
Yeah, I am in the like, it literally says extreme deficiency category. Like, yeah, so not only you know. Not only do I have a bunch of issues, but like I'm a translucent vampire who's also an alcoholic apparently. So there's that
Nick VinZant 1:03:32
man. You need to get more D in your life means it gets you a Sex Robot getting you some D in there. Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe. Leave us a quick review doesn't have to be a big thing. Just a couple of quick words really helps us out and let us know what you think are some popular things that you just you just don't have any interest in doing
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
From frozen alpine lakes high in the mountains to icy rivers in the heart of Alaska, Luc Mehl has spent years chasing Wild Ice. We talk the increasing popularity and danger of Wild Ice Skating, the best ice rescue techniques and skating on thin ice. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Pops/Sodas.
Get EveryPlate for just $1.49 a meal plus $1 stake for life
Website: https://get.everyplate.com/podcast
Enter code: 49Pointless
Luc Mehl: 01:37
Pointless: 38:19
Candle of the Month: 51:59
Top 5 Pops/Sodas: 56:08
Nick VinZant 0:12
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, wild ice skating, and the best pops, or sodas, or soda pops, whatever you want to call it.
Luc Mehl 0:25
I mean, in the simplest terms, it's just this like, like childhood play, it's super easy. It's the scariest, it's certainly the highest consequence, the current of the water means that there are zones of thicker and thinner ice and you can't, you can't reliably read that from the surface. And then if you break through ice, and there's a current below you, that is just, that's a terrible formula. There's a great guideline here, it's called the 110. One. And that refers to one minute, 10 minutes, one hour than the first minute is, that's when you really need to get your breathing under control. I want
Nick VinZant 1:04
to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance to subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest has spent more than a decade chasing wild ice, everything from high altitude alpine lakes, two rivers and marshes. This is wild ice skater loop Mel, is wild ice skating fundamentally different than ice skating? Or is it really just ice skating outside?
Luc Mehl 1:44
It's kind of a dorky term. And I have I have a little like into internal battle about how much to use it or promote it. Because I mean, before there was wild ice skating, there was just ice skating. I mean, the what's really different is that in the rink, you're not skating over water, right? And so the outdoor ice there, I guess there is always a chance of breaking through the ice and getting wet.
Nick VinZant 2:10
What do you like about it?
Luc Mehl 2:12
I mean, in the simplest terms, it's just this like, like, childhood play, it's super easy. You're gliding, you're changing direction. But it's not like running or jumping or playing basketball or something. And so just the the efficiency of the glide and the forgiveness. I think it's actually quite, it's, it's quite the right way to say I was gonna say it was easy to learn. It's not that it's easy to learn. But it's, it doesn't take long to get to be able to do the basic stuff to move around, like half an hour, anybody can get out there and half an hour and feel like okay, I'm skating, like those are all super rewarding aspects of it for me.
Nick VinZant 2:51
There is something about it, though, when I watch it, like even though it's kind of a simple thing. Like, it seems crazy. It seems totally crazy. What is it about it? Like? Why do you think that that is? Well,
Luc Mehl 3:03
I mean, like what part of our human evolution thought, okay, it'd be really smart to slide around on these sharp blades on hard material that can break under our feet, right? Like, that doesn't really serve human evolution at all. But it goes way back, like historically, you know, 1000s of years. I think. And I don't know if this is true, but when I was in high school physics, I still remember this where the teacher said, or the book, whatever said that the lowest friction setting you can find on Earth is a skim of water on ice. And so I think there's probably this just human you know, Neanderthal brain. It's just like, Whoa, this is cool. I'm traveling without friction. And that definitely feels true. For me the glide, we talk a lot about the glide. It's like I just I just went 30 feet on one stride, that it's so fun and novel.
Nick VinZant 3:59
Is it dangerous? Do you feel like it's a dangerous thing?
Luc Mehl 4:03
You know what? And I do pay attention to this because I teach I'm ice rescue instructor. What goes wrong most often is our impact injuries. So maybe breaking a wrist, landing on a knee or an elbow, hitting your head, that'd be pretty serious on ice. So that's what goes wrong. Most of the time, statistically, what people I think are more aware of and more worried about the perceived risk is of breaking through ice and going into the water and that is super scary. Statistically, it's not as big a deal.
Nick VinZant 4:41
How often would you say that like okay, has that happened to you before when you've been out doing it where you just crack through it?
Luc Mehl 4:47
It happens quite often when I am on on shallow water and I know the consequences going to my knees and not much past that. So like we will skate a bunch of marshes and swim I'm here and there. It's like, oh, no, I got my feet wet. You know, it's not a big deal. On deeper ice, I don't, I don't really mess with thin ice when it's deeper water. But so this season in particular and most aware of what's going on in in south central Alaska, I think that there were three or four people that broke through the ice in the early weeks of the skating season. And that feels like a lot to me. But there were a lot of people going out hundreds and hundreds. So again, statistically, I don't know how significant that is. And I don't think for any of those people that it was a scary experience.
Nick VinZant 5:36
It's usually not a I
Luc Mehl 5:38
just thought I better add to that, that we just we Eagle River, which is just outside of Anchorage, where I live, there was actually a fatality just last week where a woman went on river ice, and that's a different story. Because you've got current under the under the ice, it's a much scarier, higher risk environment. And a woman was swept under the ice just last week, she was out walking her dogs. So so there is there's real risk to it for sure. I shouldn't underplay that. Is
Nick VinZant 6:11
this something that not to not to kind of relate this back to what we did the event that we just talked about? But is this the kind of thing like, Look, if something happens to somebody, they're usually pushing it? Or they just got really unlucky? Or is this more of a thing that like, oh, this can happen to anybody at any time? I
Luc Mehl 6:29
think it's, it's rarely a surprise. I think the people that break through are thinking Oh, yep, you know, I know I'm pushing it, and, and those. So for the three or four people that I talked to you this year, they're all wearing safety gear, they've got ice picks, they might have a life vest on like, they kind of know they're pushing it. So it's not a big surprise within this community. I will say and I don't know how, how in the weeds you want to get with any of this. But early season iced, these, these breakthroughs that I'm describing, that's really different than late season ice. And the difference is that now the thickness is a pretty good proxy for strength. So if you go out there, and you know, there's four inches of ice, you're pretty much good to go as a skater. If I try that same thing, and March four inches of ice isn't necessarily strong enough to support my weight. And it's a question of, sort of the internal strength of the ice and ice can rot what from within, especially when it gets a bunch of solar radiation. But for example, in January of this year, I guess almost a whole year ago, in New Hampshire, there were three ice fishing fatalities in four days, something like that. And it was like eight inches of ice. That's shouldn't be enough ice. But it was enough ice for them to be driving ATVs and snow machines out. But then in the late afternoon with a bunch of solar radiation, that ice was rotten, and a few people broke through and drowned.
Nick VinZant 8:05
It might not make this a very good analogy, but I think it'll make enough sense, right? Like so it can be like four inches of solid ice, like concrete, or it can be like four inches of solid ice, kind of like Swiss cheese. Yeah,
Speaker 1 8:17
that's right. On. Yeah, if you just make those holes really small. That's a pretty good analogy. The what's going on is it's the, what rots first are the boundaries between nice crystals. And so if you could kind of put all the holes of that Swiss cheese model up the grant screen boundaries. And then once those boundaries are shot, the crystals can kind of slide or break past one another. That's the difference between the early ice and the late ice. All right, so
Nick VinZant 8:45
you need this much ice, like how many inches centimeters, whatever of ice do you need? Like, okay, you can do it at this much. You really should wait till this much.
Speaker 1 8:57
Yeah, you're gonna get different answers depending on who you ask. And if you ask the municipality, they're gonna give you a really big number, right? Because they want to err on the side of so for example, in Anchorage, I think they'll say you need five inches before you consider going out on ice skating, like at five inches, maybe the city puts a sign up that says or takes takes the sign down that says then ice. The physics of five inches is that that's a that can support a huge load. But the city wants to make sure that a group of kids can play hockey and maybe encounter a thin spot and still have enough ice. So there's that answer. And then for me personally with the the skating I do, and it's often in remote settings where there isn't anybody to help or anybody to tell you how to time how thick the ice is. The magic numbers for me are two inches and four inches. So that's is that five centimeters and 10 centimeters. At two inches. They'll support me and me I can, I can kind of get away with it, but I'm on high alert. And I test the ice strength as I go pretty frequently, four inches is like, just kind of like I can, I can relax a little bit, let the pressure off my shoulders, and it's like, Okay, sweet green light, we can, we can run with this, I'll go faster, I'll check less frequently. So those are the numbers that I keep track of two and four. And I check them throughout the outing.
Nick VinZant 10:26
When you look at kind of the ice, like say, like it was using a lake for an easy example, right? Like, well, you generally find like, if it's two inches on the shore, it's two inches in the middle, are you going to be like No, but it's going to be two inches here, and it's gonna be three feet here, it's gonna be half an inch here, or is it pretty like now when it's pretty uniform throughout whatever surface of body of water you're using.
Speaker 1 10:47
So the strategy is, you always want to know how strong the ice is under you. But it's unrealistic to check it every three feet, right? There are different ways to gauge the strength of ice, and we could talk about that. But the shortcut is to assume that any ice that looks the same that has the same kind of texture or surface is probably from the same age, same sort of crystallization event. And so if I test that ice on its edge, I will generally assume that it's the same throughout that body of ice. But then that body can be bound by different bodies. And there's usually visual cues that you've crossed into a different chunk of ice. And it can be that it can be a little step up, or a little step down where there was older ice that was thicker, and therefore more buoyant, and so it stands tall. Or it can be the color if there was snow on the surface, or even a wind texture. There, there are a lot of different ways to sort of get clued in that I've just crossed from one, one sort of, I'll treat it as uniform chunk of ice into another chunk of ice. So I stop and I check the thickness, the strength of that new body of ice. That makes sense.
Nick VinZant 12:09
Yeah, right. Like if it looks different. Check it again.
Speaker 1 12:12
Exactly. It's that simple. And it's easy to say that it's that simple. But then when you're flying out there, because you can move at 10 miles an hour. It does sometimes take some some just sort of have this like a personal contract to stop and then recheck the strength of the ice.
Nick VinZant 12:29
How do you check it you just stick a pole sharp pole down there is what I'm imagining. Exactly.
Speaker 1 12:35
So you we carry our ice probes, and they're made specifically for some of this outdoor ice skating, and you just smash it smash smash Smash, they've got these big steel tips, sharp steel tips. And with that, it's kind of like a personal calibration. But if I, if I smack at the ice twice, and I'm able to break through it. I know it's just enough to support my weight. But right on the edge. If I smashed through it three times, four times, five times before the pool pops all the way through, then I'm feeling pretty confident about the strength of the ice.
Nick VinZant 13:12
Now, is there any kind of advantage to skating thin ice, right? Like, are there certain people that would be like, Oh, but thin ice is the best ice.
Speaker 1 13:21
There are certainly a sub community of skaters that really seek out that thin ice thrill. A lot of those folks are wearing dry suits and different protective equipment because I think they know they're more likely to break through the main motivation to skin to to skate. Thin Ice is that that's generally black ice or the crystal clear ice so you get to see through it. And if there are cool textures on the on the lake bed, that can be really rewarding visually. There are also some fun sounds and then for the people that are sort of motivated by that sort of playing on the edge of the their risk envelope. Then, you know, you're always a little bit on edge like oh, I just pulled off something and, and so so that does appeal to a number of skaters. And then there are a number that don't mess with it. They wait for that sort of four inches. They wait to see that somebody else has already gone out their thing.
Nick VinZant 14:20
But now the see how long is the season, right? Because how does the snow not just cover up the ice on the lake? It
Speaker 1 14:27
depends where you go. But, for example, in Alaska, it's pretty typical that we'll have a sort of a first freeze if it's cold and clear before the snow falls. And so that'll be the first window of skating. And then it is true that we'll get snow on on that ice. But if there's a thought and this happens more and more now with with climate change, if there's a bunch of range rain or if there's a bunch of warm temperatures, then that snow can can melt or partially melt and, and re resurface the lake and be skateable. Again, that type of snow we call White Ice, because it's usually got some of the trapped air that that was in the snow. Black ice is the stuff that's just perfectly clear, it grows down into the water. White Ice is ice that kind of grows up into the air, because it's, it's capturing snow and turning it into ice. But we'll get several of those pulses through the winter, even in the middle of January, if a big warm front moves through. The other thing that can happen is that the load of the snow on the ice can cause it can imagine just the ice getting bent down into the surface of the water. And that can cause water to come up through cracks and holes and then flood the ice. And then that will again cause like a new surface of White Ice,
Nick VinZant 16:02
would you say is there a difference between like, okay, skating on a lake versus a river versus a marsh?
Speaker 1 16:09
Yeah, there's there's big differences between those. What I like about Marsh skating is that the consequences feel less significant. If I break through, it's again, that sort of knee deep water. And that makes me feel like, Oh, sure, I'll try this, I'll skate some thinner ice than I would otherwise. It's also super fun and dynamic to carve around all of the marsh grasses, that can be a lot of fun. Skating lakes. That's where you I at least feel more confident about the uniformity of the ice. And I really liked the large lakes or we have a handful of, of canoe trail systems here. So it's like, you'd canoe it's a lake and then Portage to the next lake and then Portage to the next. And we've able to escape those. So you can you can do these loops and get on 14 different lakes in four hours, you know, covering 20 miles. So that style of skating is very fun. And then rivers is what I've done the least of because it's the scariest, it's certainly the highest consequence, the current of the water means that there are zones of thicker and thinner ice and you can't, you can't reliably read that from the surface. And so it's much more likely that you would accidentally find that ice. And then if you break through ice and there's a current below you that is just That's a terrible formula.
Nick VinZant 17:33
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Yeah, you bet. What's your favorite place to do this at?
Speaker 1 17:41
Well, I'm completely biased about being in south central Alaska. And, and we, we don't get a particularly long season, but we get these really different environments, from marshes, to rivers, to glacial lakes, where you can kind of go up near icebergs to some of these big lakes that are like 1000 feet deep. So I'm totally biased about about doing it here in Alaska.
Nick VinZant 18:05
Is there any place that you would say like, that's kind of like every wild ice skater who really loves it wants to go here,
Speaker 1 18:13
that might be lake by call in Russia, because that's the lake that's that's most reliably skateable. In fact, they have I don't know if they still have, but they used to host races skating events there. I think it must just be like a true desert with very little precipitation. And the ice grows to be meters thick, like just ridiculously thick. And so you there you're out there with hovercrafts and teams and camps, mobile camps along the ice. So that's probably the most most recognized destination within the skating community for outdoor ice.
Nick VinZant 18:51
How popular is this? Is it going up going down staying the same?
Speaker 1 18:55
I think it's getting quite a bit more popular. And I think part of that is that with some of the changes with climate, we're getting longer skating windows. And I think the other part is that it's it's kind of a low barrier activity. Like if you already have skates or if you upgrade to new skates. That's, that's the main expense. The safety equipment is pretty affordable. And so I think there's a lot of a lot of families a lot of young adults that are sort of rediscovering skating. What is your best tip? This isn't a direct answer, but I feel like anybody that goes out on on good ice smooth ice and doesn't fall doesn't get injured is going to end that day thinking like that was awesome, and I want to do more of it. And so the best tip I think it's probably just to go try it and and I would not recommend going to some novel place within ice that nobody's been to Before as your first outing, like I'd go where people go, whether that's a city maintained or monitored lake or otherwise, bring a bring a thermos of hot chocolate and make a make an easy fun day out of it. But I think just that, that that sort of childhood ease of travel when you get to glide like that, I think everybody comes out of that feeling like that was a worthwhile use of their time.
Nick VinZant 20:24
And it's still a wind from my wife, but she always says like, people love to go, we like we like that, like when you're just like, Oh,
Speaker 1 20:33
it is completely that this, that's great. My wife and I have this too. And she'll go, we really log and then we'll reach a rest stop. And I'll just say we, you know, like, like, that's our little internal joke. So yeah, we're same boat for sure.
Nick VinZant 20:47
Um, are people starting to push it? Do you think that it's getting more popular that people are kind of starting to push it? Yeah,
Speaker 1 20:54
yep. And I think I'm one of those people. We've done some remote trips. And I've, I've come back mostly like years later, once I got more formal in my in my training with ice rescue and understanding what can go wrong. And looking back and being like, Whoa, I can't believe I did that. Generally, we can't believe I did that without testing the ISO strength as we went or without carrying the right safety equipment or without having practiced some of the rescue scenarios. But for sure, I think like any sport, there are, there's a psych a bell curve, right. And there's that top 10% of the enthusiast are going to be pushing what's possible and trying to redefine what's possible. These are like the, the free solo climbers in the rock climbing world. And for ice, those are probably the people that are playing on thin ice and remote ice. And that's probably going to go really well for a lot of people, and then it's probably going to bite a few people in the butt.
Nick VinZant 21:54
Is it Ultimately though, when you kind of look at the danger factor of it? Is it just coming down to like, look, it's not so much that you're doing it in this place. It's that you're doing it on this thin ice, right? Like if throwing out a dramatic example, you find a lake at the top of Mount Everest, right? Like is that? Is it crazy? Or not crazy? But is it dangerous? Because of the remoteness? Or is it dangerous? Like no, you're just that ice isn't good enough to do that?
Speaker 1 22:21
Yeah, that's another great question. It's It's like our this is, again, sort of in the weeds. But one framework to talk about risk assessment is is and this is largely coming from the the natural disaster community like landslides, earthquakes, is to think about risk in terms of the hazard, the exposure and the vulnerability. So the hazard is a thing that can go wrong. Like, it's something we don't have any control over. And that would be like the strength of the ice being on thin ice could also be cold air, cold water, that blowing air like all of these environmental factors that we don't control. The exposure is what's exposed to that hazard. And that's often a decision for us, like I am choosing to skate this lake on the top of these Himalayan peaks or at Mount Everest, whatever, yeah, whatever. Yeah. And then the vulnerability is like, how bad is the damage going to be if things do go wrong, if I'm exposed to this hazard, like, what's going to happen if I do break through this ice, and that vulnerability, we have a lot of control over. So if I go through the ice wearing a dry suit, and a life vest, and with these pics already in my hands, it's not that big of a deal, it's actually kind of fun. If I go through the ice as a, as a three year old kid, and my parent is 200 feet away, that's a big deal. Right? So the vulnerability depends on on your experience, your training your equipment, so that all those three things together exposure, vulnerability hazards, those all kind of overlap to, to define that overall risk. And, and so it's this balance of where are you doing it? What's your experience? What equipment are you using? And then how good are your communication skills with your team? You know, somebody recognized and is I'm not say it, or to somebody is somebody in our group really pushing and not checking in with the group because of their own personal objectives? Like all of those things come into play.
Nick VinZant 24:29
So looking at this, like, where is this? Why does that ice look like that? That kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 24:37
So this is rabbit Lake. This is a five mile four and a half mile hike from Anchorage. And this was from late October, which was the earliest I'd ever skated. But we just had these unusual, cold and clear conditions unusual for October that allowed this ice to form quickly. and cleanly so there's, there's very little trapped air in it. And this setting which is up in the alpine up above tree line, that means you can tell there's no soil there. There's no trees on the edges, like dropping pollen into the lake. So it's just a very pristine lake bed and ice.
Nick VinZant 25:18
Now, how thick would the ice there be?
Unknown Speaker 25:21
What's your guess?
Nick VinZant 25:22
Three inches?
Speaker 1 25:24
Yeah, right, right on three to four inches. Yep, spot on. So we go to a lake like this. And, and I and I escaped the whole perimeter. Because if we go back to, or say go back, but we skate the whole perimeter, because that sort of if something goes wrong, it close to the edge. Right, you can get out of the water. And I test the strength of the ice along the entire perimeter of the lake. And then I got some confidence, like it's all three to four inches, let's start moving towards the center, and playing around with where these rocks were.
Nick VinZant 25:57
Now how, okay, on a scale of like, one to 10? How rare is this kind of an occurrence, right? Like you're gonna get this happens every year like, man, I've never seen that before,
Speaker 1 26:08
to the combination in this video of being able to visit alpine lakes, and then have such good ice, that this is the first time I've ever been able to do it after 1213 years of of pursuing this stuff pretty pretty actively. So I think this was very rare. In my experience, we'll get just good ice, other other years, other times of the year. But the combination of this Alpine setting with that ice with the lake bed that was unique here.
Nick VinZant 26:40
So that's a river then I'm assuming, right? Yeah, this is a
Speaker 1 26:43
very low flow River, which you can maybe get a sense of because of the meanders. And so this is one where I'm a little like every one of those dark bands that we skate over. It's like, is that going to be thin ice. And so initially, we were testing the thickness quite frequently. And then we start getting confident that it's well behaved ice, and then kind of opened the gates and started moving a bit faster. That
Nick VinZant 27:09
really kind of shows like the difference you were talking about. And like, Okay, well, there's a change in the ice. Yeah, like there I can see like, okay, that, and it does look like Oh, that's pretty dramatic, right? It's not like, is this light blue or light baby blue, right? It's like, oh, that's blue. And that's red kind of thing.
Speaker 1 27:27
Yep. And that's, that's, I think that's pretty, pretty typical. I, you know, if it's, if it's a color shade like that, it's usually pretty obvious, or there are some settings that have these little frost flowers, and you can get like different flower density. These are the crystals that grow on the ice. But that's a really cool way to see different bodies of ice as well. There's all these really cool visual indicators. And
Nick VinZant 27:54
this is, that's a marsh right? Oh, that's all over the place.
Speaker 1 27:59
Yeah, so this is a against some, some low volume, low current creeks, and then a bunch of swampy marshy lands. This is an environment favored by muskrat. So we'll see a bunch of little muskrat mounds throughout the day.
Nick VinZant 28:20
Do you feel like you have to be in really good shape to do it for a long time? Or is this kind of like, man, it's pretty easy, honestly. Gosh, it's
Speaker 1 28:27
pretty easy. I will say that. If I do a long day on my hockey skates, I definitely feel that in my legs. And then if I do that same long day, and my Nordic skates, that's what we're wearing in this video. They're so efficient, the Nordic skates that, that I don't get nearly as much fatigue.
Nick VinZant 28:47
Okay, so this is a rescue kind of walk me walk me through it a little bit. So
Speaker 1 28:52
this is one of the ice rescue training courses that I taught earlier this winter. And I I only teach these on thin ice. When I took my formal training, we had something like 18 inches of ice and the the team prepped it by cutting out a huge hole nice but but getting out of ice was kind of like getting out of a swimming pool. It didn't. There wasn't much to it. And I that's a very unrealistic experience. And so my philosophy and all of my outdoor education work I do is I want the training to be as realistic as possible. And so we went out to this lake, I had scoped it out ahead of time and I knew that it was just barely thick enough to support a person's weight. And so we go out and I have this progression of of exercises that people work through to get comfortable pulling themselves out of the water. They're wearing dry suits, and life vests in these clips, but then the final iteration of the courses is the option to go in just in their street clothes just in their skating. Close. And so most people choose to do that because we're close to the cars close to home. But that is a very different experience going in without all the extra flotation, your face goes under the water. There's a little bit of a panic even for me doing this professionally and having practiced it a bunch, like when I when I do that, as part of this training, I have that same panic attack was just like, What the heck, you know, I didn't? It just makes sense why people panic and why that causes so much problems when people break through the ice.
Nick VinZant 30:31
Now, in that one, why is she covering her mouth? Is that like a training part of it is that oh, that she just happened to do that?
Speaker 1 30:38
No, that's training. And it's a great good observation. What she's trying to avoid, there is this gasp reflex and your previous episode with the with the cold weather expert. Talked about this as well, like we have this, this, this reflex as mammals. And, and I can't explain it as well as is your PhD. But I think of it as like, the human brain is like something's about to go wrong here. And I want to get as much oxygen in my lungs as possible, and lock it off. And that's a great response. Unless your water Your mouth is at the water line or below. And then you can pull in a bunch of water and have trouble breathing. And so the the technique to avoid that is just to try to build muscle memory that you automatically put a hand over your mouth, when you realize you're about to break through the ice.
Nick VinZant 31:36
I think if I can kind of paraphrase what he said really quick is like basically our body is just conditioned that if we get really cold really quickly, we take a huge breath of air and in the water, you can fill it up with water, and then you drown and die, which is a problem. You know, when you look at that now if you but if somebody was by themselves, right? In ice, that's, you know, not I can put my feet on the ground? Can you get out of that? Or is it like? Is it easy? If you're on the side? Could you pull yourself out with your hands? Or do you have to have like equipment or somebody with you to get you out of there? It's
Speaker 1 32:14
pretty easy to gosh, I mean, I shouldn't even say that pretty easy. What I will say is that if you carry the ice picks, and this is like the $10 investment, I mean, there's no reason not to have ice picks, we wear them around our necks, you can see him in these videos. With ice picks, that's what provides the traction to claw your way out of the ice. Then that makes it much easier to get yourself out of the ice. With enough practice, you can do it without the ice picks. But at that point, it's kind of like a party trick. Like why would you? Why would you do without the Yeah, like everybody should have the ice picks. They're cheap, they're easy, they're intuitive. So for me personally, with the practice that I've done, I'm not that worried about breaking through the ice, even if I'm on my own in the middle of nowhere, because I've gone through the motions, I know what to expect. And I know how to how to get myself out. Yeah. And then we also, we also carry a rope in case somebody does have trouble getting out. There's a great, there's a great guideline here, it's called the 110 one. And that refers to one minute, 10 minutes, one hour than the first minute is, that's when you really need to get your breathing under control. So if you got some air in your, if you got some water in your lungs, when you broke through, or if you just panicked, you have a minute, you can take a minute to chill out, like just get on your back and breathe. That's what matters the most. And then you have about 10 minutes where you can use your muscles where you can functionally tread water. You can grip strength to hold on to the ice picks, or to grab a rope if somebody's throwing you a rope. And then you have maybe an hour ish before you might get hypothermia. And there are some this is tied in most of the ice rescue trainings across the world I assume. And it's a great guideline and it really just just more than anything there to emphasize. The first thing to do is to find a way to relax, just chill out have confidence, make a plan and then and then do it. And if you can get that far the rest is probably going to be just fine. Oh, that's pretty. This is Justin one of my one of the guys I started playing hockey with and he has a lot more skate control than I do is a lot of fun to chase him around.
Nick VinZant 34:43
That's that ice looks a lot different to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1 34:47
this was this was on Kenai Peninsula. So a couple hours south of Anchorage. And it was black ice. So it's that same really nice strong ice that grows down into the water. And then it's got some of these frost flowers on the surface. So this is basically like, crystallized do. That's crazy. It's so cool. And that's what I was mentioning that like, if you saw transition from from more or less frost flowers across a boundary, then you'd think, okay, that ice must be a different age. And that's where I would test it again with the probe. And that's what Pat is doing here. That's
Nick VinZant 35:29
pretty much all the questions that I got. Is there anything that you think that we missed? Or kind of I know, you teach some classes on wild ice skating and rescue, like, how can people find out more that kind of stuff?
Speaker 1 35:40
Yeah, good question. There, there aren't a lot of resources online. Most of the formal training is for is for rescue professionals and fire departments. That's the training that I went through. And a lot of it's not very relevant to recreational skaters. And so the courses I teach in Anchorage, I kind of cherry picked those aspects from the formal training and combine that to what I had learned with my own experience. But there aren't a lot of people doing that there are a few groups in Canada, teaching courses like that, I created an online course to sort of fill that gap for people that don't have access to in person training here in Alaska. But I think at the most fundamental level, it's like, if you go out to a lake, and there are a bunch of people that have already been out skating, it's probably a pretty, pretty safe destination for you to be skating on. The caveat there is that that changes in the spring when the when the ice starts to rock, like we talked about earlier. That was a that was a really long, sort of closing thought for you. But that's what comes to mind. Real
Nick VinZant 36:47
quick, I want to take a moment and tell you about one of the sponsors of this show, every plate, every plate is America's Best Value Meal kit, it is the cheapest meal delivery option. And right now, they have some great deals that they're offering to start off 2024. If you are craving steak, they are introducing $1 steak for life. And we've got a special offer from every plate that I'll tell you about in just a second. But one of my favorite things about every plate is just the cost. It's $1.49, a meal, the quality, and the variety. Right now they have 26 tasty and affordable recipes that change every week, they've got breakfast, 15 minute or less meals feel good food, big batch favorite, they've just got all kinds of food changing recipes that I have really enjoyed. And to get to that special deal that they're offering right now. You can get meals for $1.49 plus $1 steaks for life by going to every plate.com/podcast and entering the code 49 pointless. Now you have to have a subscription, and it must be active to qualify and redeem those $1 steaks. But you can get started with every plate for just $1.49 we have put the link in the description plus that code if you want to check it out. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of his show. What percentage of your life do you feel like you know what you're doing?
John Shull 38:28
I mean, since I've had children zero, and I mean that,
Nick VinZant 38:33
I wouldn't say that maybe 50% of my life, maybe 50% of my life. I know what I'm doing.
John Shull 38:38
I mean, I guess I'm actually thinking about it. workwise Sure. Being a great husband. Yes. Being an excellent lover, definitely. But then you throw fucking kids in there and it all goes to hell. So maybe 50% For me maybe in
Nick VinZant 38:56
things that have an answer, like a definite solid answer. I think I got that pretty figured out like 70 to 75% the problem I think is is that so much of life like you don't really know. Like, is this going to be the right job? Well, you don't know until you take it. By think so much of life you don't know the answer until it's already you've already made the decision.
John Shull 39:18
Also think that's the biggest. Like, that's the scariest thing to people is do you take that chance? I think I think people struggle with that more than you know are how many things are you good at is how many chances do you take in a day that could change things enormously that you don't?
Nick VinZant 39:37
Well? You mean like big things are like little things, obviously big things,
John Shull 39:41
but little things? I mean, what if what if you don't decide to go to the grocery store that day, and you just sit around and do nothing? You know what if you decide not to cut the lawn, then you get a ticket for not cutting your lawn. If you've gotten tickets for not cutting your lawn. Now I'm a maniac about it. I'll cut My lawn in the summer, twice a week sometimes.
Nick VinZant 40:02
So do you really have that much difficult of grass? Or do you just have a crappy mower that you haven't taken in and you need to have it serviced? Because there's no you cannot tell me that you need to cut your lawn twice a week. That's ridiculous.
John Shull 40:15
I mean, I can send you pictures this summer, if you really want we can keep a grass tracker or something. It's I mean, it gets gets long, it probably gets to be four or five, six inches long.
Nick VinZant 40:27
After a week, this is very suspect we're gonna have to put this conversation on hold until this summer when we can evaluate. But that's pretty suspect amount of time to cut in your lawn, to be honest with you. I think I'm pushing it every 10 days and like, Oh, that's a lot. And I live in Seattle. And then, like green is everything here.
John Shull 40:44
I live in Michigan, where? Right now we can't get sun to save our life. I think it's been, like 34 straight days without the sun. No wonder I look translucent right now. Listen,
Nick VinZant 40:58
I don't appreciate that. This is our first show of the year. And you've already brought weather into it. I'd like a formal apology.
John Shull 41:08
I apologize for bringing weather into our first episode of 2024.
Nick VinZant 41:13
Ah, you brought cutting your lawn in. Did you age 40 years in the last week?
John Shull 41:20
Sometimes I wonder I I used to be you know, I was sitting there last, you know, during the New Year's Eve, on New Year's Eve, they could have myself. I'm fine. Sitting right here, dozing off at 10 o'clock. I don't need to be out there at a party or with other people. It's weird
Nick VinZant 41:42
how life changes. Like now if people invited me and like now I just have a lot of responsibility in this time of your life. Right? Like I think if you're out there partying and going out and doing all those kinds of things in your 30s and 40s. You aren't really taking care of whatever you're supposed to be taking care of. You're not really handling your responsibilities. Like no, you shouldn't be tired and worn out and just want to go to bed.
John Shull 42:11
It's like a one beer and I'm more of like I'm falling asleep with a beer in my hand. So that's that's where I am with my life.
Nick VinZant 42:17
I watched bluey. I loved it. Ah,
John Shull 42:20
I love blue. Okay, are you kidding me?
Nick VinZant 42:22
I love blue. All right. We're not getting in this conversation about bluey mowing lawns and the weather.
John Shull 42:27
You brought to be fair, you brought bluey up, but I'm not going to ask for an apology because it's a great show.
Nick VinZant 42:35
Okay, you ready? The first
John Shull 42:37
shot outs of the new year? Oh,
Nick VinZant 42:38
yeah. Let's see, you're supposed to do something you did you do it?
John Shull 42:42
No, I did not do it. Okay,
Nick VinZant 42:45
completely started turning 24 off, right? You were supposed to, like rhyme it or find only people with movie names or some kind of theme and you just dropped the ball entirely.
John Shull 42:55
I completely forgot. So you just set it. So hey, you're right. Starting? I mean, starting 2024 of the way,
Nick VinZant 43:02
the same way we Okay. All right. We are going
John Shull 43:05
we are going into year six. You think I could get my shit together? By now?
Nick VinZant 43:11
Oh, no, I know that if I asked you to make any kind of change, it's going to be anywhere between three to six months before you finally do it. Oh, I did a poll. Now that I think about it. I did a poll.
John Shull 43:21
Can we just get this out of the way? Good? No,
Nick VinZant 43:24
because this is what we were talking about. So I asked the audience how much of your life do you feel like you know what you're doing? 42% said 25% or less 32% said 25 to 50 18% said 50 to 75. And only 8% said 75% or more? I would be willing to bet that 78% That said 75% or more is probably the section of the audience that knows the least. Right? Like if you think you know something. That's what's weird about life, the more you know, the more you realize you don't know what's going on. It's probably why stupid people are so sure of themselves in the internet comments.
John Shull 44:01
Well, all right. So listen, this is gonna be the last episode of The bangers. Because I got I got I got a surprise. I don't know if it's a game. I don't know how you describe it. But next next episode. Okay, we're gonna get you. I'm gonna get you so, okay. I'd say that's the only that's the only way I'm gonna tease it. But
Nick VinZant 44:22
do you actually, do you actually mean the next episode? Or do you mean like six months from now? Next
John Shull 44:27
episode this. This has been something I've seen because I've, you know, I used to do fun facts. And then I used to, I used to, you know, do some questions and then we went to bangers so I was like, what are the people want? What, you know, what do they want? What do they want to see or have Nick VinZant Say to them? So, okay, so you know, we'll, we'll see. We'll see what happens.
Nick VinZant 44:51
All right, target date, march 2027.
John Shull 44:54
If you're if if your blood type was to come back a certain kind of food. What do you think? It would be soda
Nick VinZant 45:00
and chicken tenders. I think that's what what would yours come back as
John Shull 45:10
it would just be a black line just dead now probably like beef jerky, like the sausage, bacon beef jerky, like those things.
Nick VinZant 45:23
God, that would be amazing if your blood type was just the food that you ate the most.
John Shull 45:27
I know it's alright, so this one is more of a theoretical question for you. But which out of these two bones say you were to break them? Do you think say you were in the middle of a jungle and you broke one of these bones? And you had to obviously get to safety or find somebody for help? Which one of these do you think you could break and do that successfully? your back or your femur, which is the largest bone in your body?
Nick VinZant 45:55
I think that breaking your femur can kill you. Because if you broke your femur, you probably really did something else. Like you could maybe just break your back like a hairline fracture and kind of be okay. But I think that if you break that femur, that's like harder than concrete, like you just did something. That's probably the least of your problems. Me if you break that,
John Shull 46:20
and per usual throwing, throwing realism into the questions is not what I was planning on you doing. But you asked me
Nick VinZant 46:28
a question. Why would you not want what I really thought like, what do you want me to say? Okay, what would be the answer that I could give you that would make you happy?
John Shull 46:35
I gotta try to do my Nick VinZant accent. Oh, God. Well, I
Nick VinZant 46:39
want to hear you do an impression of me.
John Shull 46:41
I didn't actually have one. I was just gonna say, Oh, my fever.
Nick VinZant 46:48
Yeah, dude, I wouldn't want to break my femur you get really hurt. Like you probably did something else. Right? Like it very. And if you break your back, I think that that problem is gonna solve itself. Anyway.
John Shull 46:56
How many bones you break you back in your day? Four. And we're gonna count fingers as one so you can't say like you broke three fingers. Three different
Nick VinZant 47:10
leg. Like twice. Leg once. Skull once. And twice.
John Shull 47:21
You broke your skull. How?
Nick VinZant 47:23
I mean? Yeah, cracked it open.
John Shull 47:24
Well, that says a lot. Okay. 30 seconds. How when? How old were you? How do you do it? I
Nick VinZant 47:32
was eight years old. I had my head down to see how fast I could ride my bike and rode it headfirst into a parked car. Says it's incredible that a human being could survive that if you think about that.
John Shull 47:47
Yeah, I mean, you might not survive it now. But back then. Oh, no.
Nick VinZant 47:51
Good. No, I mean, you can't really well, you can't see it a little bit. There's a massive scar goes all the way across my head. Oh, I think it was like 72 stitches on the inside and 72 on the outside. So that's about 144 stitches.
John Shull 48:06
Wow. For an eight year old and especially a tiny one like you were it's a lot of stitches.
Nick VinZant 48:12
Oh, I was in I was like yeah, like it was life threatening injury. Thanks for bringing up childhood trauma.
John Shull 48:17
No, I feel kind of bad even asking. Okay, well, let's just move on to Oh,
Nick VinZant 48:24
okay. All right. You will make fun of my dead mom. Won't make fun of my mom now.
John Shull 48:28
We're not starting off 2020 for them, but the dead mom conversation. Love your mom. She's a great lady. All right. Rip alright. Don't Don't don't make it seem like he
Nick VinZant 48:39
should have just bailed on it when you when you messed it up.
John Shull 48:44
Fucking See, that's what that's one of those moments. Where
Nick VinZant 48:48
are you digging back into you're digging back into it. You had to come back around, thought I
John Shull 48:53
was in control. And then in the blink of an eye was out of control. So people who say they, they think they have 75% of their life and controller are wrong. So Well, I 100%
Nick VinZant 49:04
agree. I think 25 to 50. Anybody says more than anybody says higher than 50%. You better watch out for that person.
John Shull 49:13
Putting on some kind of list or something.
Nick VinZant 49:14
Exactly. blacklisted. All
John Shull 49:17
right. Best drunk food. And I'm not talking about you know, you've had a couple of drinks. And you know, you're kind of hungry. I'm talking about like, you're completely sloshed. And this is this food will just put you into ecstasy. You may fall asleep with it on your chest and you wake up in the morning in the same position. So I have nachos, pizza or tacos.
Nick VinZant 49:42
I would say it's very close between nachos and tacos or nachos and pizza. I would say it's very close between nachos and pizza, but I would give pizza the ultimate edge. I think pizza is probably the best junk food.
John Shull 49:54
See I it's tough because I've gone the pizza route. I've also gone the taco route If I put nachos as three pizzas, two tacos as one, I
Nick VinZant 50:05
don't see how that you can possibly put nachos ahead behind tacos. Because nachos and tacos are kind of the same thing if you think about it. Yeah to
John Shull 50:14
sir. I mean to a certain degree but tacos. You tell me. I mean, you go to Del Taco or Taco Bell or one of those fast food restaurants like that. And you're getting a, you know, a wrapped taco that just doesn't, you know, tickle your fancy.
Nick VinZant 50:28
No, I'd rather have nachos me. Well, you know, I'm going to eat tacos, but I'd rather have nachos any day of the week. Or like
John Shull 50:35
when we were younger and used to party and you would wait in line for that stupid taco truck or whatever it was burger truck. I
Nick VinZant 50:41
was the that was still the best. That was still the best. That's still one of the best burgers I've ever had in my life. But I never had it sober. Can you think of what's what's the best food that you've ever had in your life? Like, what would you say is the best single instance of food that you've ever had in my in your life? Oh,
John Shull 50:59
I mean, it was a flaming yawn. Steak from from a local steakhouse here. I mean, by far, it
Nick VinZant 51:06
was such a snob. What I
John Shull 51:10
mean, you asked ever, I mean that thing. Just give me a second. What's yours? I'm just gonna sit here and think about it for a minute.
Nick VinZant 51:18
Mine was actually I don't remember the name of the place. I don't remember what I got. And I don't even remember really where it was. But I was on vacation in like, someplace in Oregon. And there was an Indian taco truck or an Indian truck, like an Indian food truck. And I got something that was the best thing I've ever had in my life. And I would it's a five hour drive from where I've lived, where I live now. And I thought about making that five hour drive to go get it again.
John Shull 51:48
Well, I think we need to put this on record. If if I ever come out to Seattle, we make that five hour trip. Oh, we would do it in a heartbeat. Listen, is it time? Is it time? I
Nick VinZant 51:59
was wondering if you were going to remember that it's the first of the month.
John Shull 52:04
I mean, I fail on everything else on this podcast except for one thing. And that is this right here.
Nick VinZant 52:11
Okay, well, with that build up. It's time the outlaw candle connoisseur Rides Again, candle of the month
Okay, one more time.
John Shull 52:33
Well, thanks for that intro. It's gonna be a simple one actually. I usually go a little different. But winter night stars is the candle the money wounds from the Yankee Candle Company, it's actually on sale as of this recording. So probably on sale throughout the early stages of January and get it for $15. Once again, as most of my candles that I've showcased here over the last couple of years, you can get a multiple different kinds of wicks, in terms of numbers styles, you can get them different sizes, burned times gonna run you know, normal 30 to 180 hours depending on the size and the number of books you get. But it's amazing friend of mine actually because believe it or not people locally who listen to this that know me who were are a guest every time they find out on the candle kind of sewer. So actually somebody that knows me personally gave me this candle back. I don't know, August, September, it was near my birthday. And I lit it up probably sometime in early December. And I mean it went it lasted a weekend. But it's amazing. So you're gonna get obviously to winter night stars is the title. You're gonna get a very, like piney. Almost like ginger rally, or ginger soda smell. But it's I don't even know how to describe it. It's like you're in the middle of a of the Appalachians in January. With clear air, blue skies and just trees all around. It's amazing.
Nick VinZant 54:17
That was the that was probably the best description that you've given for candle of the month watch that was a good description right like you took me there before you were kind of just name and smells and things like that but now you set the setting for it. Well set the setting that's a start for 2024 like I
John Shull 54:35
said if if it's not you know if it's not me failing at everything else in the first episode, I had to make sure I nail that down. So what
Nick VinZant 54:44
though but okay, now what amount of burn time are you going to look at and be like, Oh, that's just not enough burn time for that candle.
John Shull 54:52
I mean, well, I mean, I usually stay away from the they're called trial mo I don't mean to say this. Like you don't know what they're called trial size. Look The smaller ones, I don't know anything about candles, they usually go from, you know, six to 18 hours, like I feel to get the, I kind of take the series actually, to get the full aroma from start to finish, you need to have to have a candle that has a good lifespan, which, you know, it's usually a couple of days worth of burning.
Nick VinZant 55:23
Do as a candle was like, Well, you have you found candles where you would start them off and you'd be like, Oh, that's good. And then it goes bad or vice versa. Like where do you think is the sweet spot of a candle?
John Shull 55:38
You I mean, when you first light it? I mean, obviously you get everything on the top. And then it Sue's out. And then you'd be like, you know, a day later. What's the smell? Oh, it's the middle part of the candle. And then the middle part is probably the sweet spot.
Nick VinZant 55:55
Okay, okay. God is just this is it fascinating to me that you know this much about candles?
John Shull 56:02
I wish I didn't. I wish I didn't.
Nick VinZant 56:05
Okay, are you ready for our top five?
John Shull 56:08
I am. I think it's going to be a controversial one. But we'll see where we're where we land here.
Nick VinZant 56:14
Okay, so our top five is top five pops. Or sodas. Top five sodas or pops or soda pop. However you want to phrase this. What's your number five.
John Shull 56:24
I stay I stayed pretty. Pretty generic. But But anyways, we'll see where how this goes. My number five. I'm gonna go with ginger ale.
Nick VinZant 56:33
be hard for me to put ginger ale that high. be hard for me to put ginger ale that high because I would never just drink like, Oh, I'll have a ginger ale. I might mix it with something. I would never just be like, You know what, give me a ginger ale. Because I'm not 95 years old. You want to sanka some fresco with that.
John Shull 56:54
It's good. It's delicious. I I think I think people are gonna think that it's an obscure top five out of everything that's out there. But I'm okay. I'm fine with it. Probably the only choice on my list to where I'm like, You know what? It deserves bottom, my top five for sure.
Nick VinZant 57:12
Okay, I wouldn't put ginger ale in my top 10 I can't think of a single back I'll have some ginger ale by itself. It's a hard pass. My number five is Mountain Dew code red.
John Shull 57:24
Okay, I actually think out of all the Mountain Dew, which I'll get to get to a little bit later. I think that's the worst variant other than the blue one that just came out electric shock or whatever. I think Code Red is the worst variant of Mountain Dew.
Nick VinZant 57:42
I think that there was some times in college in which I would have four or five Mountain Dew code reds just back to back to back. Mountain Dew code red dominated my college years.
John Shull 57:53
Like I said, I'll get to all Mountain Dew and a little a little bit here.
Nick VinZant 57:59
Okay, yeah, it's
John Shull 58:00
number four is root beer.
Nick VinZant 58:04
That's my number four is root beer. I love root beer. I think Luke Root Beer is very underrated.
John Shull 58:10
It is I still don't really know what Root Beer is, or what's in it, or what it really actually tastes like. But it's delicious.
Nick VinZant 58:20
Now, do you have a brand but that you do have a preference or as root beer root beer? To me Root Beer is kind of just root beer like it's all the same? Pretty much.
John Shull 58:30
Yeah, I mean, obviously, we could name the major brands. I don't really know. I mean, I don't have an I had a lot of the operands. But so yeah, root beers just root beer. I
Nick VinZant 58:41
guess I would go a and w if somebody asked me like, well, what kind of root beer would you ultimately want? Well, like a and W Root Beer, I think. But I have no idea what Root Beer is either.
John Shull 58:51
I have no idea. But you're not a gardener. Okay, well, I'm
Nick VinZant 58:55
not even gonna look it up. I don't really want to know. What's your number three.
John Shull 58:59
So my number three and it's kind of a cheap way out of this. But I have coke slash Pepsi as my number three.
Nick VinZant 59:08
Okay. That's right. I can
John Shull 59:11
understand that. Like because I that. I know the difference like to me, I'm a Pepsi guy, right? But I don't mind coke. So it's, you know, Pepsi is a little more sugary, a little more bitey cokes a little more smoother to me. But people have told me it's the other way around. So maybe it's just the way that one perceives Coke versus Pepsi. I have no idea
Nick VinZant 59:32
but I'm a Pepsi man myself. I'm a Pepsi man myself, but I'll drink Coke. I don't have a problem with it. My number three is pineapple Fanta. If you can get your hands on some pineapple Fanta which is difficult to get your hands on. It's an incredible pop. It looks like something that came out of your body after you haven't had water in a week. But it's an incredible pop. It's It's amazing. It's great. Pineapple Fanta I've
John Shull 1:00:00
never had Fanta, like any kind that I can remember at least. So I guess I'll take your word for it.
Nick VinZant 1:00:09
It's great. It's a way to get fruit and pop at the same time.
John Shull 1:00:13
It's such that's such a, like a wrong thing to say but we'll leave that one there. My number two is the only kind of like specific that I have. And it's Cherry Pepsi Wild Cherry Pepsi.
Nick VinZant 1:00:31
My number two is also Wild Cherry Pepsi except mine is specifically diet Wild Cherry Pepsi because give me all the chemicals. Just the camera
John Shull 1:00:40
here, or do we have to have the same top five?
Nick VinZant 1:00:44
Because dude, we're bad. We're best buddies. We're starting out. 20 we're starting out 2024 As the same person,
Unknown Speaker 1:00:54
mic
Nick VinZant 1:00:58
that are number one is the same too. I bet her number one is the same too. Because No, I know. Okay, what's, what's your number one?
John Shull 1:01:06
My number one is Mountain Dew.
Nick VinZant 1:01:10
Can you tell the story real quick about how you had to have liver problems because of your Diet Mountain Dew addiction?
John Shull 1:01:17
Well, quick story, my liver Well, I had liver issues from drinking other things. But I basically started a lifelong problem with kidney stones. Because in college, I don't know man, when you said you would drink for back to back. I probably drink 12 and a day maybe. And that's saying it lightly. Because they used to sell the one liter maybe they still do I don't drink it anymore, obviously because I would have kidney stone every month. They used to sell the liter bottles, the one liter bottles and you could open them and so it wasn't like a two liter bottle wouldn't go flat if you didn't drink it fast enough. So I probably I probably go to the gas station on my way to the gym, oddly enough. Pick one up before the lift and then on my way back I'd pick up maybe 10 or 11 for the rest of the day.
Nick VinZant 1:02:15
Oh my like diet.
John Shull 1:02:18
No, they were there. They were straight. They were straight Mountain Dews.
Nick VinZant 1:02:23
I remember drinking 12 Mountain Dews a day.
John Shull 1:02:28
Yeah, so Anyways, long story short, I ended up getting a kidney stone going to the hospital, obviously. And the doctor came back and was like, yeah, pretty sure it's gonna be because of all the mountain Do you drink and now I can't drink it. If I if I even have a Diet Mountain Dew my stomach starts to hurt. I don't know. Obviously that's not kidney stones. But I just think my body is like leave us the fuck alone.
Nick VinZant 1:02:54
Dude, I think that you may have some compulsive behavior issues, right. Like you're mowing your lawn twice a week. You drink 12 Mountain Dews. That's insane to me.
John Shull 1:03:06
So
Nick VinZant 1:03:07
I mean, 144 ounces of Mountain Dew a day. That's to Julie yours, dude.
John Shull 1:03:14
I mean, we were pumping. I mean, we were pumping. I mean, a lot of water back then, too. So when I was paying so much and then you get to the night and then you drink, you know, liquor and beer, and I have no idea how I don't weigh 500 pounds. I'm getting there. But I don't know how I don't weight yet.
Nick VinZant 1:03:32
Dude, if you had 12 of those that's talking that's probably like 1200 At least 1200 to $1,500 1500 calories a day in soda. Oh my God. You are not a healthy man.
John Shull 1:03:48
I mean, once again, I don't want people to sit and think like I did that for years. But I can confidently on record say I know I did that for probably a month and a half.
Nick VinZant 1:04:00
Yeah, yeah, it's really good that you stopped I don't think you would have made it much longer. Imagine just drinking yourself to death off Mountain Dew like how would you do it Mountain Dew?
John Shull 1:04:09
What? Like, who's this idiot? I mean, it's delicious, I guess but what's your number one
Nick VinZant 1:04:19
Diet Dr. Pepper? I think Diet Dr. Pepper is the best overall soda. It's the only one that I would actually say is kind of thirst quenching. Like oh a quench my thirst.
John Shull 1:04:31
What there's there's many things that bothered me about what you just said. But one of them was before I said my number one you indicated that you and I may have the same number one
Nick VinZant 1:04:44
oh yeah, I forgot briefly about your Mountain Dew addiction.
John Shull 1:04:48
Whether Mountain View was my number one or not? Dr. Diet pepper would not be in my top 40
Nick VinZant 1:04:56
Yeah, dude, Dr. Pepper is good. That's the best one bag if you can actually get your hands on the Dr Pepper zero, that kind that they made because people are like dogs. Ooh. Oh, right, like that person that somebody makes fun of you for drinking diet soda. You know exactly what that person looks like. Oh, what's your honorable mention for your internet craps out?
John Shull 1:05:19
Orange Crush, Cherry Coke. You can tell them a big cherry fan. I also I don't know why I put this on there probably just to have another citrus pop. But Sprite. Even though I'm not
Nick VinZant 1:05:34
all like Sprite. I like Sprite I can put Sprite. I'm not gonna put it I can get it as high as number seven.
John Shull 1:05:41
And then surge. I put rumor surge from back in the day. No. Mellow, yellow. No,
Nick VinZant 1:05:48
I don't think I've ever had a Mellow Yellow.
John Shull 1:05:51
Oh man, and you lived in the real Midwest. Can
Nick VinZant 1:05:56
you think of pops? Famous pops that you've never had the ones that I can think of right off the top of my head or Mr. Pibb never had a Mr. PIP and I don't think I've ever had a Mellow Yellow.
John Shull 1:06:09
I just haven't had a lot of the ones in the last decade. So I mean, if there's a popular pop that's come out, or a variance, I probably haven't had it.
Nick VinZant 1:06:20
I don't think there's any kind of new pops. I can't think of a new pop. They're all kind of Pepsi or Coke or something like that. But I can't think of like the new brand that's changing the market changing the game.
John Shull 1:06:32
I think that's the thing you can't get into the market those two conglomerates will get you out of it before you even start it.
Nick VinZant 1:06:40
Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it really helps us out. Let us know what you think are some of the best pop slash slowed at sodas slash whatever that you think are out there. I cannot believe that that man drank 12 Mountain Dews a day. That's incredible. I don't think I have 12 Anything a day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
It’s been touted as a way to boost your metabolism, reduce inflammation and improve your immune system. But does Cold Therapy really work? Dr. Francois Haman has been researching cold for more than 25 years. We talk the effects of cold on the human body, the positives and negatives of cold therapy and cryogenic freezing. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Worst Things About Christmas.
Dr. Francois Haman: 01:15
Pointless: 36:06
Top 5 Worst Things about Christmas: 47:14
Nick VinZant 0:11
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode cold and bad Christmases, so
Francois Haman 0:19
we're very good at dealing with this. In terms of cold, we're awful. We're probably some of the worst mammals, because the risks of going beyond two minutes are not worth it. And the damage that you're going to do to your tissues are not worth it. But there's that concept that you're never dead. Until you're worn and dead.
Nick VinZant 0:40
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest studies the cold, specifically, why cold affects us what we can do about it. And if cold therapy really works, this is cold researcher, Dr. Francoise um, on, what is it about cold in our body? Like why does cold have an effect on us? Well,
Francois Haman 1:21
that's an amazing question. Because when you when you look back at where we actually evolved, and where we come from, you realize that humans actually evolved in the African savanna. So we spend most over evolutionary time building these adaptations for heat for humidity, for dealing with high temperatures. So we're not really good in the cold, we're very good in tropical conditions, we're very good at dealing with heat, especially if we're in the shade. But as soon as we get into the cold, our vulnerability is tremendous. We have very little defenses, physiological defenses, and even biological defenses to be able to survive, and we have to rely on our minds. And we got to rely on our capacity to build shelters to build to make clothing to work together to get our basic needs.
Nick VinZant 2:08
What is it about the cold that does it to us, though, it's like what is happening kind of inside of our body that doesn't agree with the cold.
Francois Haman 2:17
So as soon as we get in the cold, we start losing heat very quickly to the environment. And our body's going to say we need to shut this down. Because if we keep losing heat to the environment, At that rate, our body temperature will start dropping. Humans are endothermic. So basically, we're made to survive at a specific body temperature, and it has to be constant. So 98 Fahrenheit or 37 degrees Celsius, we're trying to maintain our body temperature at that temperature in the cold, we lose a lot of heat, so we need to produce a lot of heat to compensate to avoid having our body temperature drop. So the first thing our body's going to do is as soon as you get into cold conditions, is going to shut off anything going to the periphery. So if your hands and feet and as you all know, when you work in cold places, your hands and feet become very cold, and wait before the rest of your body becomes cold. So this is very typical of the human response. And it just brings all the warm blood towards the core of the body and tries to keep the core at a constant temperature. But for humans, it takes a lot of energy to be able to do this and we're burning a lot of energy to be able to maintain that body temperature. When
Nick VinZant 3:26
would you say that our body starts doing that? Is there a temperature where our body says up? It's cold. Now,
Francois Haman 3:33
any temperature below 33 is the beginning of cold exposure,
Nick VinZant 3:38
I just looked it up 33 degrees Celsius is 90 degrees Fahrenheit. And I would consider 90 degrees Fahrenheit to be pretty hot. So we're essentially getting cold even in the middle of summer. Yes. Are we better than other animals that are adapting and dealing with the cold are we kind of No, we're kind of one of the worst.
Francois Haman 3:59
Definitely, we're very good at dealing with the heat, we got eccrine glands were able to sweat a lot from all over our body, which is a lot of a lot of animals are not able to do this. So we're very good at dealing with this. In terms of cold, we're awful. We're probably some of the worst mammals out there because our bodies are furless. And so that's a that's a big disadvantage. The other disadvantage is a lot of people put a lot of emphasis on fat as being an insulator for cold. In our case, we're not like marine mammals, marine mammals can actually isolate their their blood sugar or their fat from the environment. So having barely any blood flow going to the to the outside to the periphery, which means that we can regulate their temperature much better in the cold and we can for us our skin is a radiator no matter what. And we're always losing heat to the environment. We can have fat, the fat is going to modify your body shape and your body morphology. So the physics will be modified in the way you're losing heat to the environment. But we're we're still going to keep losing heat to the environment. so it doesn't provide that much of an advantage. So to put it on a scale in mammals, we're pretty awful.
Nick VinZant 5:05
You know, we start to get cold. And I would use the words technically, right? Because it's at 90 degrees. When that what temperatures? Will we kind of be like, Okay, now you're really in trouble. Like, you're not just uncomfortable. Now you're in trouble.
Francois Haman 5:19
It's not a difficult question to answer. But it's a very interesting question, because there's two ways of looking at it, I can tell you when you're troubled biologically, but there's also when you think that you're in trouble. And there's a bit of a distinction there. So I'll tell you biologically, biologically, you're in trouble if you keep losing heat, and you're not able to reward yourself. So there's two types of cold exposure, there's one type, which is compensable, which I could be shivering like crazy and producing a lot of heat, enough that my body temperature doesn't drop. So we call this compensable, it means that I'm losing heat to the environment, but I'm producing so much heat, that my core temperature doesn't change compensable cold exposure. But there's another type of cold exposure, that often happens in cold water, which is on compensable. And as soon as you get into cold water, you're losing heat so fast, that you're not able, you're not able to produce heat fast enough to compensate, which means that my body temperature just keeps dropping. So in cold water, you're always in trouble. Cold water, meaning below 18 degrees Celsius, again, is something we can probably look up in terms of Fahrenheit, but 18 degrees Celsius and below, you start losing heat very quickly to the water. And if you don't get out within an hour, an hour and a half, you're gonna become hypothermic in cold air, you could always compensate. So there's always ways of compensating but if ambient temperature becomes below freezing, then there's all kinds of risks that are added up. Some of these risks are going to be related to frostbite, your hand blood flow is going to drop your feet blood flow is going to drop and then your extremities become very at risk of any type of injury, any temperature is in between. It's also how you feel in that temperature, some people go into cold and they panic. And they're actually very scared of cold. And I've seen even in the lab, I've seen some people being terrified of being in cold temperatures, and thinking it was burning them and they weren't feeling good. And that's all mindset. And the more you expose yourself to these cold temperatures, the more your mind becomes used to it and you become more linked to the biology and late less linked to the psychology of dealing with cold. The reason why humans are like this, that they're fearful of cold is cold is a dangerous stimuli. And if you don't deal with cold and you don't make decisions, you could ultimately die or not be able to sustain your capacity to function and thrive, even feed yourself. So this is something where evolution made it in a way that we tend to be very concerned about cold. But you can also the train this where you can actually learn not to be that's what we do with the military, we actually train them to be able to face cold efficiently to be able to operate in cold temperatures.
Nick VinZant 8:08
18 degrees Celsius is 65 degrees Fahrenheit, just for a quick kind of refresher to the audience. That seems like man. So okay, this is a complete aside. But I've always wondered this, whenever you get in cold water, like why do we take that like? Like you start breathing like that, why is that
Francois Haman 8:27
there's a program in the UK, it's called that they've been trying to an intervention that they're trying to get everybody to understand is if you fall in cold water, you need to float first, extremely important. The reason if you don't float first, as soon as you hit that water, you will take a deep breath. And that's called Cold shock. And to cold shock response, it's a reflex. And if your head is underwater, you will drown. So the first thing more people have died of drowning in cold water, because of cold shock, they've actually died of hypothermia. So you need to float first. So essentially, there's their receptors right below the skin. And as soon as you hit that, that cold water, it will induce that, that the breath. And what again, you're gonna just take your full emulations about what liter of air coming in again, you get one liter of water in your lungs, you're done. So this is something it's just a reflex. And this is what again, we train coming back to the military. This is something we train because they do train to go into cold water. And we trained to actually not take that deep inhalation and actually to learn to exhale as soon as you hit the cold water. Because it's a way of regaining control.
Nick VinZant 9:38
I don't know if I'm going to be really be able to like kind of quantify this question very well, but I think it will make sense in the sense that like, Okay, if we do this kind of training, you mentioned you work with the military, if we do this kind of training to prepare ourselves for cold. Like how much better can we get at handling it? Would you say we get like you get a little bit better or Oh no, you can really, you can really change. Yeah,
Francois Haman 10:04
you can really change. So you can get even within one day get amazingly better if you learn how to do it. And what we do is we actually trained the soldiers to use breathwork. To regain control by understanding what's going on physiologically, understanding that reaction is normal, and knowing what to do with it, what you can learn then is how to almost embrace being in that cold, that cold water that cold does cold temperatures. And when you hit that cold water, you barely get any reaction because you regain control immediately. So this is very quick to train. And this training for cold shock can actually last even if you stop doing it can last for over a year.
Nick VinZant 10:49
What do I mean, when you talk about kind of training? Like, can you talk about what kind of techniques, things that people can do?
Francois Haman 10:57
So none of this is novel, it's been used for 1000s of years, and many cultures, and people have used cold water or any type of very intense stressor, to be able to learn to, to even meditate and be able to become in a zone that you keep control. And this is done mainly through breath work. It's done through even being self aware of the dangers that you're facing, and knowing that you can keep control even in these very harsh conditions. And so this is something where there could be many benefits in pushing your body outside of these limits, and showing that your body is able to respond in a very positive way.
Nick VinZant 11:43
Is this in any way, kind of like the old adage about exercise, right? Like my body starts telling me that I'm tired long before I'm actually really
Francois Haman 11:51
tired? Yes, it's exactly the same thing. When you look at the kind of training
Nick VinZant 11:56
is there any physiological changes that take place within people because of the training, or is it really just like, you just get used to it, like, it's just a mental thing. So
Francois Haman 12:08
muscles do change, when you expose muscle to cold, you're going to be shivering. And that's assuming it's kind of low grade exercise, and you will get some of the changes with cold exposure that you would get with low intensity exercise. And actually, some of the because cold is such a potent stimulator, a lot of these changes actually occurred much faster than what you could get during exercise and at much lower intensities. So cold has been known to actually improve even aerobic capacity and improve your your, your your muscles capacity to even deal with sugars with glucose. So these are some of the changes that that occur, another change that can occur. And again, this is something brand new. Basically, when I say brand new, I mean 2009, which might not be brand new for everyone. But for me, it's kind of brand new. Before 2009, we never talked about brown fat, and brown fat in adult humans was not even a conversation. So we said that anytime somebody would get into the cold, all the heat being produced was basically from shivering from the muscles being activated and shivering. So shivering is kind of very, it's not a synchronized movement of the muscles, it's just their muscles trying to produce heat. And that's the best way for humans to produce heat. But in 2009, there was three nominal papers that came out in New England Journal of Medicine that showed that adult humans have brown fat. So we knew that babies had brown fat, but we didn't know that adults actually retain that brown fat. So they found that brown adipose tissue and adult humans, and what we saw is when you call the climatized, some people increase their brown fat. So there's actually more and the brown fats role is just a furnace, all it does in the animal world is to produce heat. So it's not made to produce energy. It's made just to produce heat to keep your bodies warm. So this is something that no therms have. So these are tissues that do change in the cold. There could also be effects on the immune system and effects on inflammation. But this is not as clear as people seem to make it. So you look in the mainstream social media and people will say, get into the cold, it's going to improve your inflammation status, it's going to improve your immune system, this is actually not proven at all.
Nick VinZant 14:20
That's what I was going to ask you, right? It's about like kind of cold therapy seems to be all the rage. Is there any science behind that? Or is it like this thing is just taken on a life of its own and extremely
Francois Haman 14:32
important question because people seem to say that there's science behind it. And he kind of tried to say, Okay, this is what you do, and it improves all these parameters. Right now, there's very little backing up any of that these statements. So there's there is some research, kind of showing that cold could add multiple benefits and one of these benefits that is clear is cold as a stimulant. So as soon Like even taking a cold shower and cold bath will actually increase not only your dopamine but actually increase stress hormones and it gives you a bit of a rush. And this rush actually makes you feel good. And the dopamine makes you feel good. But the the rush also coming from just doing that cold exposure cold shower, you would do it too. And of course, if the person feels better, that's a very important result, right. So a person's feeling better. So for me, if you think about therapy, cold does does help. But now it's funny because it especially in North America, it was funny being in Finland, because the Finns tend to not go to these extremes in North America, what we love to do is as soon as we find something, we make it into the biggest thing on earth. And it's the magic bullet for everything, and it's going to fix everything. So and the issue that happened is people now started pushing the envelope. So they're using some of that code and making some statements about the effects on the immune system and inflammation. But cold is not even standardized in the way people use it. So just like if I would say, exercise is good for you. While you're going to ask me what type of exercise? How intense Should I do it? How long should I do it? How frequently should I do it? Well, we don't know for cold. And some people, if you say two minutes and icewater is good, they're gonna think that 20 minutes is 10 times better, because the risks of going beyond two minutes are not worth it. And the damage that you're going to do to your tissues are not worth it, we still need to consider some of the risks, you can just keep doing the these cold water depths thinking that I'm not damaging tissues. And again, there's two types of injuries you can have is like frostbite, depending on what temperature that you're doing these ice ice dips. There's also a risk of non freezing cold injury. And the non freezing cold injury was actually first documented in the First World War. And they were called trench foot. So trench coat is actually in neurological damage. And if you repeatedly exposed yourself to cold temperatures, you will damage your nerves and your hands and your feet. And this can actually be permanent. And this is well documented. And soldiers, by the way, in the UK and Canada, even in the US extremely well documented that non freezing cold injuries from repeated exposure to cold can actually be permanent damage to tissues.
Nick VinZant 17:15
I don't want to kind of put words in your mouth necessarily, but kind of sum it up for my understanding. It kind of seems like when we're talking about cold therapy, that we know that we feel differently, right. And we know that people kind of feel energized or feel whatever. But it doesn't seem like there's any actual proof that from a biological perspective than anything is happening.
Francois Haman 17:35
No, there's actually a paper that just came out in 2020 2023. I just looked at it. I found it yesterday. And it's from University of Bern in Switzerland. And they showed that actually the Wim Hof Method over 15 days and no cardio cardiovascular advantages. And this showed actually very few benefits, even with the breath work and everything that was going on. Again, I'm this is biologically right? Does it mean that people are feeling better? I'm not I'm not discounting and anecdotal evidence is still very good evidence if people are feeling better. I mean, this is good. If they're not getting injured doing it, this is good. Biologically, a lot of these methods cannot be backed up right now. And this is part of the work that I'm doing in my lab at University of Ottawa, we're looking at dosing cold in a way that's going to be beneficial, without going to the risks. And this is something that I want to bring to the military. So we can actually make it into real training program with cold and not be doing it the way it's being done right now, which is tremendously dangerous. And one thing that I want to mention is cold, especially ice water, would be like being struck by lightning, this is how dangerous it is to your body. And you get a vagal response, your vagal nerve is going to respond to this. And you can actually end up in cardiac arrest. The only thing, the only thing that can happen is also your blood flows being all diverted to the core. And your blood pressure just flies up. Again, large risk for cardiovascular issues. So it's not a safe practice. It's a practice that it's actually tremendously dangerous, if not well done. And people that stay longer than two minutes are putting themselves at risk, big time. Now
Nick VinZant 19:14
is that two minutes a day or two? Like two minutes for what kind of time period are we looking at because you know, somebody's going to be like, so
Francois Haman 19:21
I do cold dipping maybe once every two weeks. Some people do it every single day. The risks of doing it every single day are tremendous. There are risks and the rest is to damage your your your hands and feet. So I always tell people, you need to protect hands and feet you need to put gloves on, which is neoprene gloves. I use five millimeter gloves. I use five millimeter boots when I go into ice water. But again, what will be the benefits of doing this every single day. And none of this has been well documented. And I would say that the risks right now would be more of a concern to me than some of the metabolic benefits that I know I've been studying coal for the last 23 years. So I know about cold exposure. And I don't see the real benefits right now of doing this. And the only thing I see is a lot of risks of how people are actually doing it. So
Nick VinZant 20:14
looking at it, like why did we become obsessed with it then Right? Like, if it doesn't seem to really do much for us, and can be dangerous, why do you think we came, became obsessed with it, and everybody's got ice baths and cold therapy and nitrous, whatever, and all that stuff?
Francois Haman 20:30
That's a very good question. And I started doing my PhD in 2000. I never thought coal was going to become what it is now. And it's amazing where it went. And we barely talked about it. But we barely talked about it in 2009, when brown fat was found in adult humans, everybody went ballistic. And the amount of papers that were published from 2009, and on about brown fat is humongous. And people are just pumping out these papers saying that brown fat was the Savior for anything related to obesity, diabetes, was going to be the tissue that was going to solve any problems in the world. And of course, it didn't become that way. And it's a bit of a chimp that happened when you take something that might be good. This is very typical mankind or humankind. I don't know why we do this, but we take something that might be good at a very low dose. And we always make it to an extreme, we always need to push it as far as we can and say okay, now we got to do even longer, better, stronger, it's always kind of pushing the envelope, right? You know, you do a marathon, you do a triathlon, now you got to do the ultra triathlon. And it's always cold became a little bit of this. And I think this is where we need balance. And I'll just give you an example in the, the Ottawa region, there's, there's a few groups that do ice, water bathing, and I was I went to Whitman tonight to meet one of these groups, and some of the people there were so so focused on staying in the water as long as they could. And for me, again, coming in as a cold researcher, I'm looking at him going, Okay, this is interesting that people would even want to do this to that extreme. And I looked at their hands and feet, and they weren't protecting them. And the damage was tremendous. And I could see it. And I said, How are your hands and you can see that even, you know, they had no circulation in the in the hands and the feet were really damaged. And but it was such a focus for them that this is the solution. This is what I need to do. Anything done biologically, an excess, at some point will start hurting you. And I think cold is the same thing. So there's no risk by the way of cold air, unless it's below freezing where you could get frostbite. And with cold air, if you're well protected, you can go into the cold as much as you want. Cold showers is not a big deal either, because you're not exposing yourself to the heat loss ranges that you would find in ice water, ice water is dangerous.
Nick VinZant 23:01
This kind of leads us into some of our listener submitted questions. So are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?
Francois Haman 23:06
Shoot away?
Nick VinZant 23:07
Let's start with kind of, I guess the the easier ones on that scale, right, like so what is frostbite essentially like what's happening when somebody gets frostbite.
Francois Haman 23:16
Kind of simple in a way, like if you put meat in the freezer, you will get ice crystals being created in that meat? Well, if you put that even in living tissues, you can actually add ice crystals that are going to be forming within yourselves. And the problem is that a living cell is going to rupture everything. So all the cell, organelles, everything, the membranes will all be destroyed. So you basically end up with cell death. So a frog by his different levels, depending on how deep it goes. So you can get a frost nib, which is just going to be kind of whiteness on your finger or you know, you can be on your nose, it's generally the periphery where there's less blood flow your ears, very typical. That's why with friends, when you go into very cold temperatures, always look at the person. And if you see anything related to frostbite, you need to protect yourself. So the first level is it would be a frosty if you're just going to see a bit of white occurring. There's second level, there's third and fourth level, which are much, much deeper type of damage. And but it's the same thing. It's just cell death from the ice crystal being formed, but it deeper in the skin. So we have the epithelium on the surface, and we have the DERM right below it. And basically you start damaging the dermis. And as soon as you start damaging the DERM you get, again, a lot of cell death occurring everywhere above. So and so that cell death is basically the tissues gone. Right? So agitations might occur and you're gonna get dark skin so the skin is going to everything would be falling off. So you need to basically cut it off. So it's just ice crystals forming in tissues.
Nick VinZant 24:49
Are there certain populations of people that seem to handle cold better than others?
Francois Haman 24:54
So this is a question that everybody seems to be very interested about. And I would say that physics dictates your risk for cold. So the way you exchange with the environment is going to be linked to your body shape and your body mass. Humans are generally not well adapted at all to cold. There's some populations, though, that would have morphological differences that would help them lose heat, not as fast, are they going to be less vulnerable to frostbite? No, typically, with the Eskimos, or in with like, we call them in Canada, the Sandy in Finland, and Scandinavia, would tend to with tend to be better adapted to cold temperatures, but a lot of what they do is behaviorally. So they're going to modify their behavior to be able to make sure that they don't get any type of injuries. So when I've worked with First Nations for many years in northern Canada, and the decisions they make are always about protection, they will not expose themselves and risk any type of injury. So it's very hard to separate what is biological, and what is linked to the behavior.
Nick VinZant 26:04
most extreme example, you can think of somebody surviving cold.
Francois Haman 26:08
So the only way in the cold that you will be able to see freezing will not do it, if you freeze the tissues, the tissues will die. So if it's extremely deep, and you've been outside, and your tissues are completely frozen, meaning that you're in ambient temperature, that is well below freezing, you're not going to survive, you're gonna die, you're gonna lose parts, at the minimum. But if you don't get out of that cold temperature, and your body temperature keeps dropping, you will die. But there's that concept that you're never dead, until you're warm and dead. So you still need to try to warm up the individual, because there's a chance, and it's been shown before, but it was mainly shown in cold water, where people almost went into they were dead. And when they rewarmed them from cold water, which again, has nothing to do with creating ice crystals, you don't get that tissue damage to the same level, the only thing you're getting is the cooling of the body. And this has been shown, even in infants, that if they fall in poor water, you do need to reward them. Because even after being rewarded that this is again, in animals, it's well known in the animal world that some animals are able to go to very low temperatures, they almost seem dead. They're basically dormant, and then you reward them, and they come back to life. Well, it seems that if you're able to cool fast enough in cold water, that you would be able to rewarm and come back to life. So there's that whole concept that you yes, there's that chance that you would be able to survive cold. But there's definitely no guarantees. And if it's below freezing, and you've got damaged tissues, you are losing this tissue. So again, your chances of surviving become less and less.
Nick VinZant 27:52
Are we like this cryogenic freezing work? Are we going to be able to do that?
Francois Haman 27:57
So it works for certain cells, and you need to kind of remove the water from the inside of the cell? And when you remove the water, then that you can freeze it? Could you do it for a whole body? That would be extremely difficult to do, it's still the same principle. But would you be able to survive and be as you were before freezing, you know, I kind of see the bullet a little bit like meat you put in the freezer, right? When you put meat in your freezer, and you leave it for, you know, two months, it's not a big deal. But if you leave it for 10 years, the meats not going to be very good. Right? It kind of still affects it to a certain extent. So I don't know much about that literature. I haven't seen too much about it. But in my mind, this would be extremely difficult. And I know some people have tried it to be able to bring back a body to the same state as the body was before freezing.
Nick VinZant 28:47
You don't think it's going to work? It's not going to work?
Francois Haman 28:49
I think it would be extremely complex. I think people will try it. I think people will try to see are we able to do this because we are able to do it with you know, reproductive cells, and it seems to be working really well. So it is possible to do it with these specific cells. Could you do it with all cells of the body in the same way, including your brain, which is very sensitive to these fluctuations, and especially changes in energy need and energy metabolism? You can destroy brain cells very easily even heart cells are very vulnerable. So would it be possible to do it with all tissues? I think it would be extremely challenging. So maybe we're going to be able to do it at some point. But right now I would have trouble seeing how we would be able to do it.
Nick VinZant 29:35
Are there any examples of people kind of like quote unquote, freezing to death and warm temperatures?
Francois Haman 29:40
Well, no, because it's physics, right? So because it's physics, you do need that grading and temperature
Nick VinZant 29:47
claim about cold therapy that drives you nuts the most.
Francois Haman 29:51
I think right now, what really bothers me is more about the immune system, because we kind of put The immune system is a very complex system. And we tried to simplify it by saying, Okay, it's going to improve the immune system. And a lot of people have looked at, you know, the changes in white blood cells, but there's far more going on in this. And even when you're sick, the blood cell count the white blood cell count changes. So people are making claims based on no evidence. And I think what bothers me the most is when people especially with no training at all, no formal training in any field, have taken a weekend course or, you know, a few few courses and the made these types of claims, again, based on neural science, or maybe based on a random paper from a predator journal that people are just trying to convince of the efficiency, the the efficacy of cold exposure, I think this right now with the immune system is what bothers me the most. And also the fact that we don't talk about the risks, right? This is something that bothers me into anything that we do. We never mentioned that linear, we can do this to the extreme. And there's never any risks. You know, it would be like saying, doing triathlons or your ultra marathons and during no risks? Of course, there are risks. Right, but we don't really want it we all say it's all about benefits. One cool num, there are risks. Same with heat exposure, there
Nick VinZant 31:19
are risks. What are you studying now?
Francois Haman 31:21
So right now, initially, when I started my research, I was mainly focused on energy metabolism, I was trying to figure out what does the body need and use in the cold to be able to survive and operate more efficiently. So this was most of my PhD work was related to this. And I studied shivering quite a bit, because I wanted to know how people shiver. And one thing that came up is with cold, because there's been so little natural selection around cold exposure, that it was more behavioral, we get a lot of different ways of responding to call. So we cannot generalize Cold Response and all humans honors. And even within a population that is very similar, there are a lot of differences in how people respond to cold. So But recently, so where I studied brown fat, so in 2009, I was part of a team with University of Sherbrooke and risky investment valid in Quebec City. And we built probably one of the top teams looking at Brown fat changes in humans and how exposing yourself to pull it regularly changed a brown fat, and what was the exact role of that fat. And we're continuing this word. So this is something we're going to keep looking at, for sure. Because we want to know what is the exact function of brown fat. But doing all of this, I kind of realized, especially through COVID, I started reading more and started doing some yoga, stirring, doing some meditation stuff breathwork. And I realized that cold also requires requires a certain level of mindset. When I get into the cold, my mindset has to be right. And I need to understand my limits. And I need to understand how far I can push. But there's also a whole aspect of using cold as a way of improving mindset, and your mindfulness, your self awareness. And a lot of the militaries around the world are actually looking at this and to be able to recreate the mind body connection, and to be able to use cold in a healing way where when I'm in the cold, there's nothing else I can think about. When I'm in the ice tub, what I need to focus on is to reconnect my responses. And so cold has been used quite a bit, even with pain management. So this some of the work I'm kind of doing in parallel to my more fundamental cold, cold research, because I do think there's a lot to learn and a lot to do when it comes to cold. And I think our bodies, if well done, can get a lot of benefits from cold
Nick VinZant 33:45
exposure. That is true, right? Right. When I'm cold, the only thing I think about it's being cold. I don't think about anything else. But the fact that I'm cold. I mean, it makes you tough. I feel like cold makes you tough, it
Francois Haman 33:58
makes you tough in a controlled way, it makes you tough in a situational awareness way.
Nick VinZant 34:03
That's pretty much all the questions that we have. Is there anything that you think that we missed or anything like that? No, I
Francois Haman 34:09
think we've covered quite a bit. Now,
Nick VinZant 34:11
you know, the one the only other thing that I would ask, right, like when you look at populations that kind of live in the cold, you know, that are in more extreme examples, right. Like, I know, you work with indigenous and native populations and worked in Finland, do they have a fundamentally different approach to it than other places than other people like somebody in the south of the United States would have like, did they look at it differently?
Francois Haman 34:37
Yes, and I think this is something I learned from the Norwegian officer, the amazing man that I met in Arlington at a NATO conference. And he said something and I don't know if everybody picked up on it in the audience, but for me being French Canadian, I've grown up and very on basis. My dad was in the military. My mom was also in the military. So I kind of grew up in north of Quebec City. And the temperatures were cold, much colder than what you get now because of climate change. But one thing that he said that really hit home with me and I know a lot of people in northern United States and even Alaska will understand exactly what I need. You said, to be able to do well, in the cold, you need to embrace the cold. And so, for me, I think this is the most important component of any culture that does well in the cold is cold is not a big deal. Cold is just something that exists. That is there. And in Finland, this is what you see, people don't panic around cold, and they actually enjoy the embrace it.
Nick VinZant 35:37
I want to thank Francois so much for joining us if you want to connect with him. We have linked to him on our social media accounts. We're Profoundly Pointless on Tik Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included his information in the episode description. If you want to see more of this conversation. The YouTube version of this episode will be live on December 21 at 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of the show. Are you a holiday person?
John Shull 36:13
I'm gonna say yes, but only really since I've had children. I don't really
Nick VinZant 36:17
like the holidays. Any holidays. I don't really care about any holidays, to be honest with you, other than the fact that I have it off. I'm not like yeah, Thanksgivings. Coming up, I enjoy the time with my family, I enjoy the time off. But if it was just another day, I'd be completely fine with it. I think.
John Shull 36:35
I think in some weird way, what you just said indicates that you do enjoy the holidays.
Nick VinZant 36:40
I guess I don't care about celebrating the holidays specifically. I mean, we didn't have Thanksgiving dinner on Thanksgiving, I wouldn't care. If we went to Subway, I'd be like, okay, cool.
John Shull 36:53
I think it's like, especially at Christmas time. I think it's many find it uncomfortable to give gifts and to get gifts. And I think like I could do without the gifting part of the holiday, I would be fine with that.
Nick VinZant 37:05
The only thing that I'm really looking forward to is seeing other people get the gifts that I'm going to give them I could care less about getting the gifts, there's not actually anything that I want.
John Shull 37:15
That's not true. There isn't one thing that you want.
Nick VinZant 37:19
There's not one thing that I want to get from somebody else. There's lots of very specific things that I would like to pick out myself. But there's not something that I would want someone else to get me unless it's exactly the thing that I sent them in an email with a link to get me
John Shull 37:34
while I'm still waiting on it. So
Nick VinZant 37:36
I sent you a Christmas card. Did you send me a Christmas
John Shull 37:39
card? No, we did not send out Christmas cards this year. Don't worry, it wasn't just you. No one else got them either.
Nick VinZant 37:45
You have an obligation. Once you pass once you have a family, if you have children, even if that is a dog, you have an obligation to send people Christmas cards to is in the Constitution. I don't even know
John Shull 37:57
how yours got to my house because you didn't close the back did you?
Nick VinZant 38:02
Oh, I have no idea didn't have anything to do with it.
John Shull 38:05
Well, then your wife may have been playing a joke on us because it was completely open by the time we got
Nick VinZant 38:11
it. Maybe somebody else was checking it see if there's money in there. Man,
John Shull 38:14
that brings up a good question, actually, that I have for you and everyone else listening to this. So we've been living in my house now for six years. We still we still get including as of last week mail for the prior owners.
Nick VinZant 38:30
Does it say their name or does it just say current resident?
John Shull 38:33
No, some. Now my new I don't want to sound like I'm a hoarding mail here. It's never been anything except either maybe like a Christmas card or junk mail. But in saying that, I am firmly under the belief that by now if you have not told people or I don't know Facebook them something your current address after a half decade of not living in that home, then that it's my mail at this point.
Nick VinZant 39:00
It's your mail. Yeah, that's fair game. If you get a Christmas card, have you lived there for six years, you can open that Christmas card and look at it. You can do whatever as far as I'm concerned into this into check that money is yours.
John Shull 39:10
Well, listen, that's a federal technically if I were to I don't open the mail, just FYI, because that's a federal offense. But I definitely would never open a piece of mail like that and see money and keep it because that's so
Nick VinZant 39:22
Okay. All right, dude. Yeah, people can watch this, but I know what you're really doing.
John Shull 39:27
Yeah, people can track this down. Right. Right.
Nick VinZant 39:29
Right, right. I'm a law abiding citizen. Pay no attention to me, sir.
John Shull 39:35
All right. Have you been out with your boys? And this goes anyone listening that has children? Have you been literally waiting in line for Santa or something? Or or orange or reindeer and one of your children? puts them on the spot and goes, Are you the real Santa? Are you unreal elf? Because that happened to me last weekend.
Nick VinZant 39:56
Oh, how'd you handle it?
John Shull 39:57
I backed away and so we Want to see some rain? You know, Santos reindeers? And the elf I guess we'll call her an elf. Because that's what she was portraying. She was I mean, you could tell she had done this before, but it made me stop and think that like, we need to give you know, we should give these people that are doing this credit. I mean, how many times in a day do they get asked? Are you there? Are you a real elf? Like, you know, are you the real Santa? Yeah,
Nick VinZant 40:23
dude, and you probably struggled to answer it like one or two times where they tell you when you start working and then you just repeat that answer. I don't think that it's like brain surgery every single time it's like this is what they told me to say. I do I don't know if he's representative like it's not like that hard.
John Shull 40:39
I do let's I do I think it's hard. I think it's a lot harder than we give it credit for man. I really do so much loved all you mall centers way
Nick VinZant 40:47
to back away and not take any responsibility for your own children by the way. I mean, what are you supposed to let somebody else handle this?
John Shull 40:54
I mean, listen, man up answer the kids question. That's where
Nick VinZant 40:58
you're supposed to step in. You're the parent. You're putting the responsibility on some like 16 year old kid. All
John Shull 41:04
right, Angela Moline. Appreciate you. Taylor RC Mason hunting. Mackenzie, and your Ramirez Stacey Johnson. Midnight Rider. I appreciate that. I only put this one on here because I think it's hilarious. But little big boy. I wonder why you say your little baby boy if you're it doesn't matter. Bob Chris manage appreciate you. Don Johnson. I don't think that's the original Don Johnson. Just FYI. And then Peter Masterson appreciate all of you. You all get the Silver Star Awards today. Or this episode.
Nick VinZant 41:51
I don't think there's enough Stacy's I think we need to make a concentrated effort to have more Stacy's Stacy generally tends to be in my opinion, like a good wholesome person but a little bit wild. Need more Stacy's?
John Shull 42:07
So somebody brought up a good point to me, once again, in an inebriated state, is that and this is more of a discussion than a question, but kind of a question. So I'm gonna ask you, if you're talking to someone about holiday movies, Christmas holiday movies, and they were to say, I've never seen this. Which movie? Would you say that's insane. Everyone's seen that movie.
Nick VinZant 42:34
The only one that I can think of are i Can you name a couple which ironically, I have never seen. I've never seen It's A Wonderful Life. I've never watched that. I've never watched any of the green Grinch movies. And I've never watched the one with the you'll shoot your eye out. But I would think those three home alone, and you can make an argument for Die Hard.
John Shull 42:58
So the last two home alone and Die Hard. Were kind of what we're like, if you haven't seen either of those. I think eyebrows get raised. I
Nick VinZant 43:07
would say Home Alone probably tops that list. Maybe it's a wonderful life for people of an older generation.
John Shull 43:15
I mean, I'm gonna go out of those three movies, It's a Wonderful Life would be my pick just because the message in the movie is fantastic. It's black. And well, there's a color version, but you have to watch the black and white version. If you've never seen it. Do yourself a favor and watch it. And then I'd say die hard. And then home alone. I'm not the biggest Home Alone fan. Like I'm more of a fan of Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern than I am of like anyone else in that movie? Yeah, I don't particularly care for it. The premise is a little if you actually think of the premise it's kind of a fucked up movie.
Nick VinZant 43:49
That's one of those movies that I think they like if reality if they did like the real version of that that movie ends in about five seconds. And it ends up with that kid dying and his parents going to jail because of neglecting him.
John Shull 44:03
Right they break in they murder him parents come back fight him. They the parents go to jail though they eventually catch the murders. It's over. Right? It's
Nick VinZant 44:11
right. That's the whole movie. Everybody in the real home alone movie. It's a terrible ending of the parents going to jail him dying and the other guys everybody going to jail baby.
John Shull 44:19
Alright, let's move on here because I just realized these are more topics and questions just fine. New Year's Eve. network coverage. Can you name me you know and that's what that's it. The Deke did Clark's New Year's rockin New Year's Eve, NBC does something blah blah, blah. Question is, can you name me any of the headliners for any of them.
Nick VinZant 44:41
I have never seen a single one ever, or even thought about it for a second in my life or paid any attention to it. I could absolutely care less and have never had any interest in it whatsoever. But I
John Shull 44:55
find it hard to believe and all of your New Year's Eve celebrations. I've been a part of a couple with you that you've never seen one of those shows ever. Never.
Nick VinZant 45:07
I mean, it boggles my mind that they even do it. Anytime I've ever seen like a promo for it or something like that. I'd been like, would they do that? Why?
John Shull 45:17
Third thing? This is completely different than anything. I've asked you the first two here. You're walking into, you know, Home Depot. And you take a look to your right, and there's the hotdog cart. Are you getting a Home Depot hotdog?
Nick VinZant 45:33
No, but I'll go Costco like you wouldn't believe I'll make a special trip to Costco. Costco has great food. You get a giant sundae for $1.50.
John Shull 45:44
I bet you never had their ice cream. Their pizzas are pretty big. Their chicken baths are fantastic. I'm
Nick VinZant 45:51
not sure what a chicken bake is. But I've had their hot dog which is a big size hotdog for a buck 99 I can feed myself and my two sons for 10 bucks.
John Shull 45:58
I actually got called out this week by somebody because I don't like to eat in front of people. And I got called out and it was a little it was a little disconcerting. But you know, I went with it. But I don't like to eat in front of people. I don't I don't get how that's weird or obscure.
Nick VinZant 46:16
I don't like to eat in front of people either. I would like to eat like by myself alone with no one talking to me or bothering me.
John Shull 46:24
Even my family and this is gonna sound weird. I could eat alone. Like I could make them dinner. sit at the dinner table. Why they eat they go to bed. And then I could eat after by myself and I would prefer that. I
Nick VinZant 46:36
think that's actually what I do. We sit down for dinner at six o'clock. My wife my two kids. And I later I eat at nine o'clock. I don't eat I just sit there. No, I'll have a little bit of something. And have like a drink. But I don't eat. I'll leave later by myself. Yeah, I want to be alone. Yeah,
John Shull 46:59
I just leave me alone in my rocking chair with friends on guy Oh, nothing else. I don't don't talk to me.
Nick VinZant 47:07
Just let me yell at clouds. I just want to yell at clouds. That's 100% Agree. So our top five is top five things we don't like about Christmas. What's your number five.
John Shull 47:20
I don't know how this is around the other parts of the world. But here in the Detroit area, we have a radio station that plays Christmas music from basically Thanksgiving until the new year. And I gotta tell you that Christmas music just isn't my jam. I'm going to put that as my number five.
Nick VinZant 47:38
Hmm. Okay. I have that higher on the list. I have that higher on the list. But I agree with you. I agree with you. My number five is untangling Christmas lights. No matter what you do. And I've got a system, they still end up a mess every time. untangling reorganize me like how the hell did I do that last year?
John Shull 48:03
I I'm gonna stay mom on that because I have that's higher up on my list.
Nick VinZant 48:09
Okay, okay. Number four.
John Shull 48:13
The obligation of going and seeing family. Like, it's like, hey, let's you know, let's get the family together that you haven't seen since last Christmas and pretend to give a crap about them. And you know, oh, what are you been up to Uncle Bobby? Well, blah, blah, blah, then he talks to you for 20 minutes when you could care less.
Nick VinZant 48:34
I have that also is my number four is seeing family. And I think that if you don't talk to a family member more than once a year, you don't have any obligation to talk to them.
John Shull 48:46
And it's okay, I'm trying to remain calm here because I get a little heated on this.
Nick VinZant 48:51
I'll get him fired up. Fired up. And I think I think people
John Shull 48:55
can relate to this. It's just you know, you don't hear from people ever. And then as soon as December 1. I was like, well, Aunt Mary's hosting a Christmas party. Okay, then three days later, Hey, you come in at Mario's Christmas party. Like, no, I don't even know where at Mary lives anymore because I don't talk to her.
Nick VinZant 49:15
I mean, I have family members blood relations that I probably haven't spoken to in 15 years. And that's fine. That's fine. Right. Like, that's okay. Yeah. They don't want to talk to me either. So everything's okay.
John Shull 49:31
All right, my number, my number three. And this is an old man syndrome. choice, but it's basically just not being able to go anywhere, to any store to any supermarket, anywhere. Two weeks leading up to Christmas and then like three days after, without just a being completely crazily packed. People are pissed off. There's no patience. So you take somebody like me with parking lot anxiety already. and thrust them into the situation and it's terrible. I'm just My nerves are shot for a month.
Nick VinZant 50:05
Hmm. I mean, I just do it online dude, it's pretty easy now. Like, I don't even have to leave the house. I don't have to associate with anybody. Um, maybe you've heard of the World Wide Web. My number three is breaking down boxes. I truly despise breaking down any kind of box. I hate it. You gotta open the box, cut the box, put the box away. I dread it. I hate breaking down boxes from I
John Shull 50:31
like it. I actually enjoy the challenge of breaking down boxes, because you're not not only are you getting them out of your house, but it's like how can I fit these into my recycling bin? Like creatively to get the most of them in there?
Nick VinZant 50:44
Oh, it's kind of like Tetris for you. Yeah,
John Shull 50:48
sure. You could. It's a recycling bin Tetris with, you know, cardboard boxes.
Nick VinZant 50:54
Now what do you do? What do you use? Do you use a box cutter scissors? Or do you use a knife? What's your strategy?
John Shull 51:00
Don't use any I usually appeal pills. They usually peel the tape with my hands or, you know, I don't want to talk about my big forearms. But usually I can just, you know, rip one flap open and then the other flap comes up or comes up and it's Yeah, I don't. I mean, maybe a box cutter if like if I need it, but no, I just usually use these. Me meat and meat hooks. The old me books.
Nick VinZant 51:23
Okay, I use a box cutter. The only one I really have trouble with is those boxes from Costco that are like impossible that like the whole couldn't rip apart. You know which ones I mean like that the fruit boxes and you're like, What the hell do I do with this? Well,
John Shull 51:39
because those are the ones where like the edges rip, but then like the, you know, the integrity of the the main part of the cardboard isn't ripping. It's just it's a pain in the ass. And they're
Nick VinZant 51:48
made of like the adamantium version of cardboard. Were like, what is this made of is like steel, cardboard. You can't do anything with it. Yeah,
John Shull 51:56
it's, it's terrible. Okay. So my number two is basically just everybody. I went from one extreme and go to the next here with my number two, that just everybody being fake, happy. You know, like, pretending to care pretending to be nice, pretending to give cheer. Like, I know, you really don't care about me. So don't give me some $7 bottle of wine and act like you really value me as a person. My
Nick VinZant 52:26
number two is kind of along those lines, but it's I hate pretending like I like a gift. Okay, yeah, I hate pretending like I enjoyed your gift. It's so awful.
John Shull 52:39
But do you? Will you pretend to at least enjoy the gift? You know, before you throw it away or before that person leaves the room or something? Yes.
Nick VinZant 52:49
And I hate that. I hate that. I think you should just be like, Oh, this is nice. I really appreciate it. Can I have the receipt so I can return it and get something I really like?
John Shull 52:58
Yeah, I'm, I just don't think I fake emotions very well. So it's Oh, great. Thank you. I love it. My number one is anything outside Christmas decoration related that can be from entangling lights to putting up inflatables to putting up Christmas lights to taking down all this shit. Like, it's all just it's all one big pain in the ass. And it's a bunch of reasons. I'll give three, and then I'll move on so you can talk. What is it's always super cold outside when you do it. Two ways. It's never worth the risk is never worth the reward ever, ever with this bullshit. And three, you have to take it down at least where I live. I'm speaking you know, we're living in Metro Detroit. You take it down in January, maybe February, and it's six degrees. The ground is frozen. shits frozen. It's just It's terrible. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.
Nick VinZant 53:58
My number one is Christmas songs. I don't care about any Christmas songs or Christmas movies. I don't care about them. I don't want to hear him. I don't want to see him. I don't want to hear other people talk about them. I don't care about any Christmas songs or Christmas movies don't care at all. Don't enjoy him. Don't like them don't care. Yeah,
John Shull 54:16
I mean, I echo every all of that. They're like, there are some that I do enjoy. But like once, not every hour on the hour. And not one of the main bits that I have with Christmas songs is the same song has been done by 50 people. Hmm. And like the one person that I like singing it, they never play.
Nick VinZant 54:43
Anytime somebody says to me, like let's hear Christmas music. I always think No, I don't want to hear Christmas music on Christmas Day. I don't care. Don't care. Yeah.
John Shull 54:55
I want to see how I react. You know, coming up with the Christmas already marathon because I used to be something I looked forward to every Christmas. And now I'm like, the movie actually isn't even that good.
Nick VinZant 55:10
That's the thing. None of them are that good. None of the movies are really that good. Maybe a couple, but none of the songs are that good. No, don't care. Don't care. Don't care. Do you have anything in your own dimension?
John Shull 55:27
Yeah, there. Yes. Mall Santas. I've never been a fan of waiting an hour or two hours in line. For a Santa. I'm sorry. I know that disheartening. And I know they're hard workers. But like, we can just say, hey, dress me up as Santa and I'll be Santa. I
Nick VinZant 55:48
don't really care about any Christmas food. I don't particularly find any Christmas food to be that good. It's all like okay, it's all right.
John Shull 55:54
I have animal costumes. I have people who dress up their animals for the holidays.
Nick VinZant 56:01
I agree. I don't think that animals should be dressed up. I don't think that they should be dressed up
John Shull 56:06
right I don't want to see your fucking Greyhound dressed as a reindeer. I don't.
Nick VinZant 56:11
Oh, okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance. Leave us a quick review. Doesn't have to be some big thing. Just a couple of quick words really helps us out. If you're listening to this before the Christmas and holiday season. I hope that you have a wonderful Christmas and holidays. Thank you so much for your support for this year. I still don't like Christmas songs.
Her legs are shaking, her stomach is nauseous, and a 150 foot cliff is to her right, but Freeskiing World Champion Jess Hotter couldn’t be happier. We talk Freeskiing, overcoming your fears and hucking your meat. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Mall Stores of All Time.
Jess Hotter: 01:16
Pointless: 34:06
Top 5 Mall Stores: 46:25
Nick VinZant 0:00
Hi welcome to Profoundly Pointless, my name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode skiing and mall store
Jess Hotter 0:19
stores, nervous to the pit of your stomach for like days, up until this point, so like walking up more often than not got jelly legs and like trying to visualize your life but also trying not to puke at the same time. If I make a mistake here, I could end up falling off a 50 metre cliff. So I need to make sure that I am on top of my skiing here and very solid. I think having some really, really gnarly, really big crashes. Definitely makes you reevaluate.
Nick VinZant 0:49
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest is one of the best skiers in the world. This is free Skiing World Champion, Jess hotter, like how is free ride skiing different than the stuff that most people would do? Like they go to the resort. The funny
Jess Hotter 1:22
thing about that is that freeride skiing is that like it doesn't have any boundaries like freeride skiing, skiing with teammates freeride skiing, skiing with your parents freeride skiing skiing in competitively, but it's it's all free ride. Do
Nick VinZant 1:35
you know how did you get into that? Like, how did you start the competition aspect of it.
Jess Hotter 1:39
I used to like do racing as a kid and kind of didn't really fit into that like didn't really, you know, like it was quite, you know, families with a lot of money. We've from a smaller town different vibes here. And also Yeah, it just wasn't like a big fan of like the culture that was behind like the racing as much. And so I would just went out skiing with my mates, I stopped racing and just went out skiing and but I'm still a really competitive person. So I found a way to make what I was doing competitive by going and competing. Is
Nick VinZant 2:13
it viewed differently in the scheme competitive world is it kind of viewed as like, these are the best of the best or is like, Oh, these people
Jess Hotter 2:21
if you're in the like ski competitive world and we're talking like the pot guys and races and stuff. We're kind of like the hippie dippie brothers that smoke weed and like go out skiing and like have fun with our mates. But um, it's not it's not like that. It's I mean, there are people out there that focus their whole their whole lives on on the free ride as well. It's not just it's not just like going out skiing with your mates. But it is. It's a weird, it's a weird thing where you're always trying to push yourself and it helps to be skiing with your mates and pushing yourself. But But yeah, I think other people view us as like, oh, yeah, that's what you do after like, you retire from like Park or, you know, but I think there's a lot more, I think there's a lot more creativity to be had, and freeride. Because it's not all about throwing the most hectic spend. You can it's about style, it's about being able to actually ski really well. It's about like combining freeriders combining like freestyle and alpine and putting it all together on a gnarly face.
Nick VinZant 3:21
So if you just use the like, how does the competition work, usually
Jess Hotter 3:25
visual inspection so and on the Freeride World Tour, it's visual inspection only. So you don't get to ski the face before you do it, where you compete on it. So you have a whole day where you sit at the bottom of the face, looking at it with binoculars, and you choosing your line. And basically just trying to visualize yourself actually skiing that line. And then on the day, you hike up to the top of the face and you get told when to go and you go, Oh, you got to walk up there more often than not Yeah,
Nick VinZant 3:52
like how far we usually talk. And this seems like a lot of work,
Jess Hotter 3:54
I walk really slow so that I don't that I'm warmed up, but I'm not tired. I don't want to make my legs sore or tie them out. So I walk super slow. And I think my longest was maybe an hour and a half, maybe to the
Nick VinZant 4:10
top. Maybe this is just me not being familiar with it. But is that intimidating in the sense that I'm going to ski this mountain that I've never skied before. I've only kind of looked at from the bottom of it and I gotta get down this thing.
Jess Hotter 4:24
Oh, you're you've been like nervous. So it's like, nervous to the pit of your stomach for like days, up until this point. So like walking up more often than not got jelly legs and like trying to visualize your line but also trying not to puke at the same time.
Nick VinZant 4:39
I would imagine though, but when you visualize the line on it, right? There's usually what you thought it would be or as you're going down, you're like, Oh, that's not what I thought that was gonna be like,
Jess Hotter 4:48
more often than not, you're just like, yeah, you're making decisions on the fly. So you've got to really make sure you've done a really, really good inspection so that you hopefully don't end up with too many of those situations. We're like, holy crap, this looks different. But I've definitely been in that situation where something has looked incredibly different skiing it than it has looked at look like from the bottom. Because you can't. And some of that, like in those qualifiers. I don't know whether they're doing it now, but they weren't doing drone photos, they'll give you photos of the face, but they wouldn't do like, on top of drone photos. So you might see something from the bottom and it looks like a cliff. But from the top, there might be a wall on the other side of that, and you think you can take off it, but you can't
Nick VinZant 5:29
see when you see it, like are there times that you might stop? Oh, because like, oh, you get there and you're like, oh, wait a minute, I can't go that way, I thought I could, but now I can't know.
Jess Hotter 5:39
So usually, usually you want that run to be as fluid as possible. So you don't want to be stopping. So hopefully, your inspection has been really, really top, like, top notch and you are not You're not coming across anything that you're freaked out by or anything that like stops you in your tracks. But you know, when I was learning to do visual inspection, and my first competition, I ended up like on top of this, the slump that I was like, I don't know where I am, I think I've taken the wrong entrance into whatever I was trying to hit. And I made the decision to stop and ski off to the side of it. And I'm really glad I did. Because if I had like, sent it off the end of this, like this little wrench that I was on top of, I probably would have gone 30 foot to like dead flat, and it would have probably I probably would have need myself in the face really hard at a bare minimum, could have been an awful lot worse. So it's like, you have to make these decisions on the fly and hope that you're making the right decision. So if you're not sure about something, generally you're like, Ah, maybe I won't send myself off that because it could mean real badly.
Nick VinZant 6:45
If you were to put a percentage on it, in terms of like, okay, what percentage of times does this run that I go on workout? Exactly like I thought it was going to be? What percentage of times like, oh, wow, this is nothing like I thought it was gonna be
Jess Hotter 6:58
for me exactly how I thought it was going to maybe 50%. The rest you're like, oh, that's different. Oh, oh, I need to air a little bit. You know, I need to like pre Ollie. That's more than I thought, well, there's always something that comes up where you're just doing it on the fly, or you're like, oh, there's heavy debris. Ah, you know, you're just figuring it out.
Nick VinZant 7:19
So then are they in the competition, right? Are there some people that like they're a great skier, but they can't evaluate the run for anything,
Jess Hotter 7:26
you definitely need to be good at both. You need to be good at thinking on the fly. And you could be an amazing, amazing skier. But unless you have the, like the trust in yourself to be like, No, I know that this is safe. I know that I have like done a good inspection. And that this, this goes that doesn't go. You know, like if something goes wrong, you can like make up a make up a decision on the fly to do something else. Because if you've done a good enough inspection, if you miss something like if you if you learn something, you're going too quickly, and you blow by another feature, you have to be able to put something else together. And that is part of it as well. Like you need to be able to make those decisions on the fly. That's really important. Will
Nick VinZant 8:04
you ever have skiers that maybe are professional skiers and other disciplines? And then they try to come over? And they're like, Oh, I can't do that. Oh,
Jess Hotter 8:11
yeah, there's, there's actually like a bit of a running joke within the park community. And I'm pretty sure a few people have said this, I like, oh, free ride, it doesn't look that hard. It looks pretty easy. I'll just go on the free ride tour. And I'll go and go and like, excuse my language, but I'll gonna fuck it up. And I'm gonna go and do amazingly and crush it. And then a lot of those athletes get out there and the unknown like, Oh, just kidding, this is really hard. So a lot, you know, some people think that it's super easy, you know, looking at somebody's ski that face but what you know, what you forget is like that person's skiing for the first time. They've only looked at it through some binoculars is changing snow conditions. It's not you know, it's all different variables, all changing all the time, in the snow can change from like, from like one meter over there to one meter over there can be completely different. So that's all things that you have to be able to manage as a skier and a more well rounded skier. Somebody who say doesn't just write a certain type of skiing is going to do better because they can deal with all of those different changing variables. And that's why people who ski park but also ski out around in the resort will do really good and freeride because they have the tracks and are really solid on their tracks, but they can also ski really well.
Nick VinZant 9:34
So hold your feet to the fire. Would you say that this type of skier is the best skier?
Jess Hotter 9:39
I would say yes, they're the best all round skiers, because you could throw a face you could throw any face at a freeride skier and they'd figure out how to get down it whereas somebody who purely skis park there are a lot of park skiers who actually are not very like solid technical skiers and racers who also don't spend a lot of time like jumping off stuff. So it's like the it's like an amalgamation of like all of those things.
Nick VinZant 10:06
Everything's comes together, right? That's kind of the whole thing. So when you look at kind of the mountains that you guys are skiing, are these generally pretty dangerous mountains to ski? Like, are these hard mountains to ski? Or like? No, you know, that's not that difficult.
Jess Hotter 10:21
If I was not, there are some of those faces that if I was competing, not competing on them, I could quite happily ski down them. Like for myself, I could find a safe way down them very easily. That I wouldn't be scared. But because you're putting in a competition setting, and there is a requirement to jump off things. That's when things get difficult and scary and pretty hard. But like the victor Ross, that is, the final space for the Freeride World Tour is a scary face to stand up the top of it's not a face that you stand up there and just go, Oh, I could just easily get done this. It's like, okay, if I make a mistake, even just skiing down on, you know, everyday skiing with your mates, if I make a mistake here, I could end up falling off a 50 metre cliff. So I need to make sure that I am on top of my skiing here and very
Nick VinZant 11:13
solid. Does this kind of translate into other areas? A lot
Jess Hotter 11:17
of free, right? Yeah, it definitely does. For sure. A lot of freeride athletes. You know, as they as they kind of transition out of competing, there are a lot of athletes that then go towards more like mountaineering, ski mountaineering and doing like first descents and things like that. So like, it's definitely like having those skills to get down those faces is incredibly important, because some of the faces that mountain here's the skiing are pretty messed up, you know, like very, very scary stuff. In the managing like ice falls and rock falls and Avalanche conditions and all kinds of stuff.
Nick VinZant 11:57
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Yeah. What is the last time you felt getting off of a ski lift? Probably
Jess Hotter 12:05
when I was on a snowboard, to be honest. I think the closest I've come to messing up getting off the lift though, in the last kind of five years or so. I fell asleep on the chairlift at work when I was ski patrolling it terrible car. I don't know if I should be reading this. But yeah, I put my head down, I hit the bar down and fell asleep. And I woke up when my feet hit the ground and then you know at the top and so I had to like panic, panic, get the bar off if you get it, get the bar up and then like jumped off while it was in the air just about to go around the ball wheel but you know, not as a ski patroller you get jogged you get essentially over beers if you do stupid stuff at work. So that would have got me a job. So I jumped off the left and was fine, but it was pretty close.
Nick VinZant 12:52
To anybody see it? Only
Jess Hotter 12:54
the left day. Thank God,
Nick VinZant 12:56
what's your favorite place to ski?
Jess Hotter 12:58
It depends on the snow conditions and what I am looking for but spring skiing 100% Repay who like where I grew up is the best. I can't show you right now because the curtains there but behind me is the mountain and they have the best spring skiing I've ever had. Treble cone is like a New Zealand is incredible for like all around. Good New Zealand skiing like powder. It's got some gnarly stuff. It's got fun stuff. It's really really cool. And overseas, I think for just general gnarliness Where you get off the lift and it's just like insane terrain is Verbier. In Switzerland, so that was that was pretty mind blowing going there and being like my first run of the season. I have to go above a no fall zone. So it was my friend was taking me along traverse and Atropa traverse and she's like, You can't fall here. If you fall you die. Oh, great. Cool. Yeah, I'm really ready for this. I think for powder Canada, in general is pretty sick.
Nick VinZant 14:03
What's the holy grail of this? Like, what's the thing that everybody's kind of like? Oh, I want to do that. That's that's that's the thing. Oh,
Jess Hotter 14:12
oh, Alaska.
Nick VinZant 14:15
I think there was no hesitation about that. Right? Yeah. No, I
Jess Hotter 14:19
think everybody wants to ski Alaska lines at some stage. Because you know, you see it in the ski movies. Those guys are skiing the most incredible faces. And yeah, I think I think that's everybody kind of everybody like was a little bit of you wants to go to Alaska and ski Berg lines and Alaska. Is
Nick VinZant 14:37
that just because of like the quality of the snow? It hasn't been done before. They're just that steeper and deeper or like, what is it about it?
Jess Hotter 14:44
I think it's the quality of the snow and the faces. So there's a lot of spines there that things that don't usually they don't always set up in different areas in the world. You know, it's something that like Alaska is known for is their spine skiing. And that's what everybody like as far as to, to be able to do that, because they need a certain amount of snow for that to happen.
Nick VinZant 15:04
The spine what's the spine? spines
Jess Hotter 15:06
are essentially like, how do I describe them? If you look at a mountain face, it kind of looks like curtains kind of looks like curtains. Yeah, you're like you look at a crazy, crazy steep face. And the snow like sloughs down by itself, it's usually quite steep and the snow will like effort, you know, at the snow will like kind of self manage itself a lot of the time. I mean, it will avalanche at times as well. But like, it's quite steep. It looks like curtains. And it's just like the most incredible skiing like, powder Stape. Sunshine big wide open, like the big faces. It's just what people dream of.
Nick VinZant 15:49
Now, why is the snow condition so important?
Jess Hotter 15:52
The snow, the snow is super important, especially up on those up on those really steep faces. Because if you got up there, and you came across just sheet ice and you're on a face like that, the good luck staying up there, you're going to be sliding to the bottom really, really quickly. And it's not going to be good. Those faces are like, I can't even think how many hundreds of meters it'd be like, like 1500 2000 foot faces. Maybe more? I don't really that would be about right. Yeah, easily, easily like some of those faces like 500 meters vert, easily. And imagine if you fell at the top, you would slide slash Tomahawk slash tumble all the way to the bottom, and you'd be really messed up. So the snow conditions are super important. So that doesn't happen.
Nick VinZant 16:41
Powder is better why? Powder
Jess Hotter 16:44
actually slows you down quite a lot. Slug powder is slower to skater than like skiing on sheet ice. So and you can control your turns, you're able to make make proper turns, you're able to slow down and bleed speed. You have control, you have more control, essentially.
Nick VinZant 17:02
What is your favorite skiing lingo? What is your least favorite skin lingo?
Jess Hotter 17:08
Oh, I do like having your meat or checking your carcass. Those are pretty good.
Nick VinZant 17:15
Chucking your caucus is good, especially with the accent.
Jess Hotter 17:17
You know, if you're talking about somebody, and they're like, Man, I forgot the meat today. That means they just like, seem to it off everything and just chucked themselves off stuff, which is pretty, pretty fun. Like it very, it can also like bring, bring, like the mental image of somebody just chucking themselves or something not really giving a crap about the landing and just maybe just blowing up and sometimes writing up and more often than not, not really getting out of it.
Nick VinZant 17:45
So is it a is it a compliment? Or an insult? Or a little bit of both?
Jess Hotter 17:50
Kind of somewhere in between? Yeah.
Nick VinZant 17:53
It depends on the it depends on the outcome, I guess.
Jess Hotter 17:56
Yeah. Or how can pry? How can price pretty good? Like it's Yeah, that's a good one, too. Yeah. And I do a lot of that. So
Nick VinZant 18:03
what would you say is kind of your general style? Like, do you feel like you're more cautious than other people? Are you kind of like, I'm just gonna go for it and see what happens.
Jess Hotter 18:10
It depends on the day, some days really like feeling it and you're like, I'm just gonna frickin go for it, see what happens. And just, you just seen that. But then there are other times when you're just like, feeling incredibly cautious or not super solid on your skis, or yeah, there's like times when you're just not quite feeling it as much and that's when you're way more cautious. But I think it I think a lot of it's like the vibe that you have with your group of like the group that you're skiing with. One of my bass like one of my most like memorable progression sessions where I've like felt like I learned a lot all in the space of a couple of hours was when I was up at the summit of treble cone and the end it was like a fresh power morning. We had exclusive access to the summit before everybody else and we were filming. And I watched Zoe, I don't know if you know, Zoe Sadowski she's a really really she's like at the top of female snowboarding right now. She's an absolute badass Kiwi girl. She chucked a backflip off one of the off one of the rocks and I was like, Is today the day I tried I was like, Screw it. I'm gonna do it. And I did it landed it and was like, fuck yeah. All right, let's go again and went off the bigger one. There was like a big a diving board and I was like, I'm just gonna go for it. Let's do it. And yeah, landed my backflip off the first time and I was like this okay, this is sick, like, and it's all about the vibe and like the people cheering you on and the hype I feel like is a huge, huge part of it.
Nick VinZant 19:39
Is it a thing though? We're like that can bite you in the ass? Yes.
Jess Hotter 19:42
Yeah. Actually, I got hyped up by like one of the one of the frames up a mountain cardies this season. And right at the end of the season, I was kind of having a more chill day and I was like God softening up nicely, but I don't know if I'm feeling trying to cook 70 Getting today. Because I've been trying to learn cork sevens the season. And my first attempt, I hit my head really hard. And then my second attempts, I had a really good day and then this would have been like the third day try. And I was like, No, I think I'm just gonna chill and then buddy came up and was like, Oh, you're gonna try cork seven. It's so good today, you should definitely do it. And I was like, no, no, I'm just chilling. And then I got on the chairlift and was like, hyping myself up was like, Ah, fuck, I'm gonna try it again. And then I tore I tore the grade to tore the ligament tore the MCL on my knee and grade one PCL and tibial. Plateau bone bruising. So sometimes you get that high pop, and sometimes it doesn't pay off. Can
Nick VinZant 20:40
you pinpoint the difference? Like why today? Do I feel good? And I'm skiing good. And then why tomorrow? Am I just like, it's just not, it's just not there. For me.
Jess Hotter 20:50
A lot of it's conditions for me. It's like having Yeah, in New Zealand, especially, there's only a select number of days, you're not going to get a powder every day. And a power day is when you like try stuff, you don't try and push yourself and you learn new things. But you know, we don't get that every day. So when we do get those power days, a lot of the time we're really really hyped up in New Zealand, we're like, yo, let's do it. Bye. But then, you know, and then there's those days when it's not as good or you haven't gone up with the intention of trying something because it is like quite a lot of pressure to put us to put that on yourself to be like, I'm gonna try something today that really scares me. So like, when you haven't mentally prepared for that, sometimes it's not, you know, it's not worth doing it. When I was growing up with the cork seven, I was I was planning that like, two days in advance.
Nick VinZant 21:39
How do you know the difference between like, okay, maybe I need to push myself a little bit. Like, I need to push myself, I need to get out of the comfort zone versus like, Oh, I'm not ready for this. Like, I shouldn't do this.
Jess Hotter 21:50
That is the golden question right there. It's preparation. It's sometimes you don't know. And sometimes you do know and, and that's when you like, get help from other people. When you're like, Okay, you've seen me trying to do, let's say, my caucus evens the season, they're like, Okay, you've seen me doing my caucus evens on the trampoline? What do you think? And some people will be like, yep, you have 100%. Got it, you should just chuck it, go for it. And then other people will be like, actually, I think you can control them better. I think we can work on your cork sevens on the trampoline more so that when you do go and try and do it on skis, you don't end up upside down and in a really unsafe place. Like you need to know where you are. So taking all of that feedback, and then try to find a middle ground to figure out if you think that you're at that level and ready to try it. And whether you're hyped up enough to do that. So that's kind of what I was doing the season was trying to figure out that line.
Nick VinZant 22:47
Do you think that you generally push yourself more? Or do you hold yourself back more?
Jess Hotter 22:54
Oh, I think I think lately, I've been holding myself back a little bit more than I want. And I think that's come from circle back around to that tomahawk. I think some of that, I think having some really, really gnarly, really big crashes. Definitely makes you reevaluate the decisions you're making. And whether you feel comfortable and feel safe doing things. So that's kind of what that's my current mental space is trying to figure out. You know, I was trying to get back into that really hyped up really excited really push myself vibe more often. Because I'm finding I'm stepping back a little bit more often than I was. So
Nick VinZant 23:41
this is one of your winning runs. Yeah. So where is where I'll pause it really quick. So like, where is this? What are you kind of thinking coming into this?
Jess Hotter 23:52
Yeah, so coming into this, I was incredibly nervous. The snow conditions that day were, we were wanting them to soften. So it was kind of they hadn't been very much snow in Europe. And we're essentially running like, pretty crusty kind of all over the place snow, especially if you were kind of going into the more sunny faces. They were going to be starting out pretty icy. So my face the face that I juggle where I've chosen to have my run my line was way more out in the sunshine. So I really wanted that to be getting the sun on it and to end with the to run format that day. It meant that our first run was going to be pretty damn I see. So the girls were the first to drop that day I believe the female skiers and I can't remember what number I dropped in the group whether I whether I dropped in first or not. But yeah, dropping into that device was pretty hectic. So
Nick VinZant 24:52
I mean to me, like looking at it like oh, okay, I didn't look that bad. Right but like is This is much different in real life than it appears even on this. Yeah,
Jess Hotter 25:04
right here. I'm thinking fuck I better make this turn excuse my language but I bet I better make this turn because this is right at the beginning. Because if you go directly to stop it, they're just to my right there is a cliff called Eagle I think it is. If I fell off the side there, it would have been game over. So I had to make onto this traverse track those first two turns were incredibly important.
Nick VinZant 25:33
Now what everybody take a little bit of a different line. Yep.
Jess Hotter 25:37
Yeah, a lot of people choose different lines. Some people choose really similar lines. This right here, I'm going into the Loisel cliff. And this was opened up I think by Stefan hosel. He's a Austrian freeride skier. Think essentially fun. Yeah, anyways, real sixth gear. Super icy right there.
Nick VinZant 26:00
How fast are you going through here?
Jess Hotter 26:03
Oh, I wouldn't actually know the speed. But all I know is I'm trying to hang on as much as possible because the snow was super icy. Right here. I get a little bit backseat. You can see there I just about loads up. My hand comes across the front of me. And there's a lot of like little chunks of heavy debris, especially right here skiing out of this, but he had his little chunks of heavy debris in shift everywhere. So that that there was pretty
Nick VinZant 26:26
scary. It doesn't look like there's that much snow. No,
Jess Hotter 26:30
you can see old tracks in it. If you look carefully, there's spots where you can see other people's old tracks. The best. Yeah, yeah, the best note this is really crusty where I'm skiing here. So here I was thinking just stay on your feet. My legs were really tired at this point. And I was like, I just need to stay on my feet. I need to be careful because it's really crusty snow. And then off this I definitely did not go fast enough kind of landed on that bush. But out here so the bottom of your run. You're just like, I just have to make it to the bottom. I just you can't crash now you can't crash. Now you just have to get to the bottom. Oh my God, my legs hurt. My legs hurt. I'm hurt. This is all that's going through my head. It's like I just need to get to the gates. I just need to get to the gates. My legs are sore.
Nick VinZant 27:13
Oh, it's way up there. Right like this is up above anything else. Yeah,
Jess Hotter 27:20
this is yeah. So we hiked up to this one. This was probably about a 15 minute 15 minute hike an hour's hike for me being slow. So just here out of the starting gate. It's really, really shocking underneath the snow. So you're trying to be light on your feet. So I was just thinking light on my feet light on my feet. I had no time to prepare for that run.
Nick VinZant 27:38
How far down is that first like verb right here to like where you're gonna lay it How far would you say that is that you just skate through it? That's
Jess Hotter 27:45
actually not a cliff.
Nick VinZant 27:46
Oh, it's not. It's so different. It looks so different when you see it.
Jess Hotter 27:50
Yeah, it's sort of a cliff, but you can just skate. I guess I did pop over it. It's just little. So here. I'm like, oh, what where's the entrance? Oh, yep, there it is. Jeez, that was quick. That came up really fast. Okay, go slow. Avoid the rocks. And then turn off here, right here. Yep. Man, it was like sweet. Okay, one turn. Oh, shit. Oh shit. I'm too low. I'm too low. Just made it to the cliff. I'm going to crash here because I just landed on a tree. I was in the air going. There's no way I'm gonna make that somehow skied through the tree. And then here I started telling myself I was like, keep going keep going. Don't slow down be fluid be like Director Comey be like Director Comey don't stop and hit that cliff. And then at the bottom, I was just like, Yeah, but as you come into that shade line, it instantly turns to flat light.
Nick VinZant 28:39
Yeah, I didn't realize that was that steep when they zoom out? You can really see it. Like, alright, I'm watching this like, that looks steep. And then they zoom out like Whoa,
Jess Hotter 28:48
it's honestly not as steep I think is what is what it looks it would be better and maybe in the better in the GoPro. Yeah, just here as you hit the shade line. You couldn't see anything because it was dead flat. It was like flat light. Super early in the morning, just after sunrise. So I skied into it being like, I really hope there's nothing that I had here to blow up my run at the bottom, but I can't see. So the funny the funny thing about that, um, that day that went and ran and Fieberbrunn was because it was a two run day. I went and did my first run was the winning run. And my second run was that heinous Tomahawk
Nick VinZant 29:29
Oh, god, yeah. But if you but you don't know like you couldn't just back out was like, No, I think I got this. I'm not gonna do this second one.
Jess Hotter 29:37
I could have. There's one athlete that did Andrew Pollard. He came down and was like, he finished his first run. He's like, Nope, that's the best I can see that face. I'm not going and doing it again. And the you know, so he decided to stay stay down the bottom whereas the rest of us decided to go back for round two. And to be honest, like you do one run and you're pretty cooked. So then you go on He's pretty much over. Yeah, like you got him for round two and you need to be, it needs to be reasonably good conditions. It's pretty hectic.
Nick VinZant 30:06
So where's this?
Jess Hotter 30:08
That's in Canada? Man that looks steep. That was deep. That was my first time skiing like many spines and then tomahawk.
Nick VinZant 30:19
Oh, what happened? I mean, like how
Jess Hotter 30:23
I have a habit of landing too far forward. I'm not very used to landing and powder as much because like, we don't really have as much in New Zealand. So I'm used to landing a little bit like a little bit more for point on the front, and I just did that the ladder too far forward, straight over the boss.
Nick VinZant 30:40
Now, how did you try to stop yourself when that happens? Like, is there something you can do to like, Okay, I gotta get this under control or you just hope and pray your hope
Jess Hotter 30:50
and pray. If you if your Tomahawk and there's nothing you can do. You just have to let it play out. Did you get hurt? And this one? No, as long as wait.
Nick VinZant 30:58
No, looking back on it. Would you say that? This is the kind of thing like, oh, you know what? Looking back on it. Maybe this was too much for me, huh?
Jess Hotter 31:06
No, I think it I think it was definitely pushing my boundaries. It was learning it was learning for sure. I think it was a good face to learn on. On my first run, I actually posted up in one spot and stopped for a little bit. And I did land that cliff once on the second on that on that time. I didn't though. But I did skate and landed I just skied at slower and didn't make it look as good.
Nick VinZant 31:30
That's in the Canadian Rockies. Yeah, so
Jess Hotter 31:33
that's up near golden. And we're just filming we're doing some filming last season for the head, the head movie. And for blanc as well. So it was kind of like jewel footage. That was just like a really fun cruising line down the face was really pretty nice in the sunshine.
Nick VinZant 31:49
This looks like really good conditions. Yeah,
Jess Hotter 31:53
this was actually crashed at the end. That was super, super nice. No, we got really lucky with this trip. So golden hadn't had a lot of snow. There was actually the same same trip and golden. So this is some of the more like pillow skiing, pillow skiing stuff. But yeah, that like the whole season, they hadn't had a lot of snow that was really sketchy conditions. They had lots and lots of fastening, which was super dangerous. And this was at the end of the like near the near the end of the season when things have started to like mellow out and the snowpack and we got like this really lucky 10 centimeters of snow. Like each day, we'd ski in the morning, and then in the afternoon, it would like some afternoon evening it would snow like 1015 centimeters. And then so after a few days, like these problems were on and it was so fun.
Nick VinZant 32:44
That's pretty much all the questions I got. Is there anything you think we missed? Or what's kind of coming up next for you? How can people get a hold of you.
Jess Hotter 32:51
Um, so for the next little bit, I'm heading back over to Canada to hopefully do some more filming. Previously, I've been working with blanc collective and we've created a couple ski movies. So go check those out if you get the chance. And also the heads head freeskiing unified movies pretty sick this year. We really like he'd released their first team movie this year. So it's super, super sick. Yeah, so hopefully just heading back over to Canada. During some more filming, I'll jump back into the qualifier competitions at the end of the season, and just be genuinely getting after it. But if you want to check anything out, just check out like the Freeride World tours, website and pages, the Freeride World qualifiers and my personal Instagram is just how to ski. I
Nick VinZant 33:39
want to thank Jess so much for joining us if you want to connect with her, we have linked to her on our social media accounts. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included her information in the episode description. If you want to see more of some of the skiing that we talked about the YouTube version of this interview will be live on December 14 at 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of the show. Do you prefer a buffet or a food court?
John Shull 34:14
I think my my answer has changed as I've gotten older. And my younger days, it would have been a buffet as much as I can eat. Just keep dishing it out like now with a food court. I feel I feel that would be my answer now because what's the old adage? It was quantity over quality when I was younger. As I get older, it's quality over quantity now, I
Nick VinZant 34:38
actually completely agree with that. I really thought that you were gonna say buffet overall and I would have gone buffet, probably all throughout my 20s and maybe my early part of my 30s but now I would say food court I appreciate a food court much more because you can still get various different things But you don't have to go in like all in. The only
John Shull 35:02
problem with either of those things is the pandemic kind of killed off most, most good food courts in my area,
Nick VinZant 35:12
it's harder to find a good buffet than it was a couple of years ago. I would also say that my cheat now, the only exception that I would make a sushi buffet, if there's sushi buffet, that's no question in my mind. Like I'm going for that. That's the most money I'm willing to spend on a buffets for sushi buffet. Anything else? I'm not spending over $15
John Shull 35:29
I'm quite impressed that you eat sushi.
Nick VinZant 35:32
Oh, I love it. I love it.
John Shull 35:34
Okay, okay. Um, I don't even know I'm I'm flabbergasted by that with your childish eating habits. But sushi is amazing. So yeah,
Nick VinZant 35:44
dude, I don't understand. I feel like you're taking a shot at me there. I don't really much appreciate it.
John Shull 35:48
I mean, well, if anyone views the video of this, I look like a seven year old little boy who just came in from playing outside in the snow. So why
Nick VinZant 35:56
would you need to wear a hat like that inside? I have never understood why you would need to wear that inside.
John Shull 36:02
I mean, I don't need to wear it inside. I'm wearing it for this recording. Because I want to and I'm you know, it's a it's a statement piece. You know what I mean? It's like, Oh, okay. Detroit Lions baby Super Bowl winners. Let's go. Have they ever won a Super Bowl? Have never even been to the Super Bowl. Okay, so
Nick VinZant 36:21
probably shouldn't say Super Bowl winners. Oh, I have results of our poll. I have the results. Sorry to interrupt you. Yes. 63 63% of people said they prefer a buffet over a food court. I would imagine that that is a younger audience. I do think that the older audience would go food court over buffet.
John Shull 36:38
Yeah, I would. I would definitely agree with your assessment of our demographic there. i But then again, you stick me in a buffet setting and I'm hungry.
Nick VinZant 36:48
I mean, what do you think's gonna happen? I would rather have a really crappy buffet than a really good dinner. Yes,
John Shull 36:55
I would rather have a crappy buffet option for $15 or more than a nice meal. All right. Shout outs here to the people that matter not you and I, James Scott, Vince Leary. Ed Russell Kailyn Midwood, Uri Mendoza, Sam Miko and that's a Miko not Michael, I have to make sure I say that. Jorge suns con Connie Rabbani. Bonnie. She's actually a fantastic person, but her name does happen rhymes. So I mean it is
Nick VinZant 37:35
that's got to be tough when you have a name that rhymes. Like you would
John Shull 37:39
think that like my name would be one that people wouldn't mess up, but it always gets messed up. And there's a little bit of a rant like John Shal. John show. Like your name is kind of scary, too, because I think a lot of people say VinZant or VinZant. Do you get a lot of vans dance. I
Nick VinZant 37:58
get a lot of vans and my name is Vi N Zant. But I think that there were some famous people who are Van Zandt. And so everybody just corrects it to that, because your brain just goes to the category it automatically just groups everything into the category and it's in that category. You're one of them.
John Shull 38:13
And by one of them, you mean peoples who names rhyme? No
Nick VinZant 38:17
people like if okay, I know that. Like once I think that somebody once your brain is able to put something in a category it's going to just put it in there regardless of where it is. So even though my name is VinZant it gets put in the Van Zandt category.
John Shull 38:30
Okay, yeah, all right, Van Van Zandt and see that's how it goes. It's just I actually have I have you in my phone still is Van Zandt? Believe it or not? Is it still misspelled? Probably, yes. Just not gonna change it.
Nick VinZant 38:47
And stuff like that. If you and your somebody's phone number into your account contacts, do you put the one in front of their area code?
John Shull 38:54
I do not know.
Nick VinZant 38:55
I do. I put the one in front of the area code as to start like one. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.
John Shull 39:03
Yeah, I don't just because I mean, what's what's the point? I also have a house phone. So
Nick VinZant 39:09
can you you do have a landline? Which is ridiculous. Can you give me the cadence that you use when saying your phone number? Give me the cadence so I go like Sure. 321-407-2526 What is your phone number cadence?
John Shull 39:27
249-557-4673 Huh,
Nick VinZant 39:33
okay, okay, that's that's kind of the same but a little bit different. I think people have different phone number cadences. Okay. Anyway, I
John Shull 39:39
actually think it's kind of interesting to believe it or not, I will. Yeah. Anyways, let's end this. Bill Creighton, Marian Varga and Samuel Byas. Appreciate, okay,
Nick VinZant 39:51
I like a URI. I like a URI. A URI never had a problem with a URI.
John Shull 39:58
All right, well, so these bang arrows here came from an inebriated afternoon, couple days ago. So we'll see how these go. Who is the more overrated actor playing a Christmas personality? It'll make sense once I get to America Will Ferrell as elf, Jim Carrey as the Grinch, or Chevy Chase out of National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. National
Nick VinZant 40:24
I mean, Chevy Chase made his own character so I think that he gets a pass in that regard. Jim Carrey is perfect for the Grinch. And I've just never really liked Will Ferrell. I don't really like any Christmas movies. I could care less about any Christmas movies. I don't care about Christmas movies. I don't want to see Christmas movies. I don't like Christmas movies. I think it's what you do when you don't like it's it's pandering to me. I don't like it at all. Because they're not good. They're just like, I'll put Christmas in it. And then we'll make it crappy. And everyone will be like, well, it's
John Shull 40:57
Christmas. Feel like you could say that for any seasonal movie? I mean, there are some, you know, as I'm trying to think like, It's a Wonderful Life is good. As a good message, I think to me, it's like anything, it's after the originals have been made. And then everyone else tries to piggyback off of that, by oh, let's have It's A Wonderful Life. Part Two. Like you can't do that. Or it's a Christmas story. It's a Christmas Story story or something like, Come on, man. All right, well, we can choose to have fun with this one, or you can shut it down. I feel like you're going to shut it down. But we'll try it anyways. You have to kill one, marry one, and be in a relationship only with one obviously that excludes an elf, Santa Claus, or a reindeer?
Nick VinZant 41:46
Well, I mean, I'm gonna kill the reindeer. Because otherwise it's gonna get real weird. Real fast. So yeah, kill the reindeer. I mean, you're gonna dip into the elf, right? Like, why not try it? Right? Like it's you have a couple India. It's probably like some kind of thing. Just venture down that road and never talk about it again. So you marry Santa Claus. Probably a very pleasant, pleasant person. What are you going to do?
John Shull 42:12
I had it in my mind that I was probably going to kill off Santa. Because he can't be that happy and jolly. I would probably marry the reindeer because that's just get out of the way. And then I don't have to worry about you talking anymore. I don't have to you know I can we'll just feed you. And you'll just stay out in the yard. Like I can
Nick VinZant 42:32
live in the house. You're gonna have sex with a reindeer? No.
John Shull 42:35
We'll get it out of the way. That's not let's not let's not you know, let's not go let's not make it creepy. Hear I'm you know, that's just
Nick VinZant 42:44
there's no let let there's no us in making it creepy. That was just you. You didn't think this through at all? Why wouldn't you just kill the rain? Because
John Shull 42:54
the other two are they talk? Right? Like they're like they have to live with you. The reindeer who I would prefer you know, just because I married the reindeer doesn't have to mean that we have you know, do anything.
Nick VinZant 43:06
You adapt to explain to people why you're married to a reindeer. And I think my
John Shull 43:11
reasoning would be fine. Like it doesn't talk. It's sits out in the yard. I don't have to worry about you know, yelling at me complaining. I don't have to cook dinner.
Nick VinZant 43:22
I mean, I kind of understand but like, No, I'm not. I get it. I get what you're trying to go for. Right like I get it. But yeah, it's just kill the reindeer. That's much easier.
John Shull 43:36
I mean, if I have to, you know, get on with with one of these creatures, then obviously you kill the reindeer. I have a one off a Santa and I married the elf.
Nick VinZant 43:48
And we never did specify was a female alpha male.
John Shull 43:53
I mean, listen, I don't I didn't either. I guess either, or, I suppose.
Nick VinZant 43:59
No, I think that you marry Santa. I mean, you're not going to be that nice and have a bad many other problems. Yeah.
John Shull 44:09
Okay, but that seemed a lot better. Like when I was discussing it after a few beers. Maybe? Maybe it is still a fun question. I don't know.
Nick VinZant 44:17
I have always been fascinated by the idea that like it really just depends on whenever you ask someone a question or ask a group a question. It just completely depends whether that's a work setting a personal setting, how the first person answers it, whichever way that that person goes, sets, the set of standard of your question was stupid or good. And you could ask the same question in a different setting and it's brilliant. You ask it in this setting, and some of the first person goes negative with it and you're doomed.
John Shull 44:45
Yeah, or it's like the lemming effect. One person answers one way and then everyone. Oh, yeah, well, I'll write that in that like, it's like
Nick VinZant 44:53
we talked about earlier. What now it's in the category. Once it's put in a category now it's in the category
John Shull 44:59
It's you know, it's yeah, it's yeah. Anyways, I'm still thinking about really?
Nick VinZant 45:04
Yeah, you've why you wouldn't marry and reindeer. Okay. Whenever do you live your life?
John Shull 45:10
Let me live my life. Alright. Have a I have a question more? It's more of a question to ask. I think I know the answer, but I want to get your opinion on it. Say you haven't put up Christmas lights? And it's two weeks before Christmas. Is that is it? Should you have the mentality of it's never too late? Or should you just scrap it and go on to next year?
Nick VinZant 45:38
It's, it's never too late unless it is within one week of Christmas. If it's within one week of Christmas, and you haven't done it, and there hasn't been some kind of extemporaneous reason like you lost a family member, or you got stuck in Antarctica or something like that. I think you can go ahead and put them up. But if it's within one week of Christmas, then there's no reason that you just have to keep them down. Like you messed up, right? You can't show up to the game in the fourth quarter without warming up and think you're gonna get to play. You just skip the whole game, right? Don't show up at work at 445 and be like I'm here.
John Shull 46:15
When you're five,
Nick VinZant 46:16
right? Yep, I agree. You shepherds.
John Shull 46:19
Alright. That's it, man. Let's move on. That's
Nick VinZant 46:23
it. Okay, so our top five is top five mall stores. And these are the most iconic stores? Like do you remember the stores at the mall? Specifically? Right? You know, you think about the mall. You think about these kinds of places? What's your number five.
John Shull 46:39
So there was surprisingly was a ton. There's a lot when you think about it, of stores that started off as mall exclusive. And then they tried branching out. Usually most of these places I'm going to talk about weren't very successful outside of malls, and had to go back in. But regardless, we'll start obviously, with my number five, which is lids.
Nick VinZant 47:02
My number five is also lids.
John Shull 47:05
Yeah, okay, yeah, that's out of all of the options, we have the same number five, which is a little, usually that doesn't happen. No,
Nick VinZant 47:14
not usually on the fifth one. But I think lids is number five. Because you're either going to, you're going to at least look in there or every guy is either going to look in or go into lids, even if he has no interest in buying a hat, you're gonna look at it at least.
John Shull 47:29
And it's always the most crappiest small store. It's just, it's not a very well put together store. However, no organization is terrible. But you got to walk in there at least you know, if you're walking by it, like you said, As a man, you have to just check in you have to duck in real fast. Do you number four. So this one is just based upon its iconic newness. I don't it's not a store that I would go to. But however, Build A Bear workshops.
Nick VinZant 47:59
I thought about Build A Bear. I thought about Build A Bear. I think Build A Bear is probably actually keeping malls alive in some places.
John Shull 48:08
I mean, I've been there. I think one of my siblings had went there and gotten a bear. It's, you know, I'm sure everyone has gone there or bed near one at least once in their life. How
Nick VinZant 48:19
are you going to be okay with marrying a reindeer and embarrassed to go to Build a Bear?
John Shull 48:25
I mean, once again, I feel like my reasoning for marrying the reindeer out of the other two options was sound. Because
Nick VinZant 48:33
Oh no, those things it like made sense. And then until somebody brought up one point, and then you're like, Oh, crap. I mean,
John Shull 48:39
I wasn't thinking sexually, like if we're, you know, I wouldn't, you know, wouldn't be a sexual relationship. What's your number? Duer.
Nick VinZant 48:48
My number four is a tie between JC Penney's and Macy's because that was the only reason that you are going to the mall as a little kid was because mom had to go to either JC Penney's, and if you are classy, or if you're having a classy day, like, No, we gotta get you something for pictures. Then you were going to Macy's? So those stores always stayed out of my mind. JC Penney and Macy's.
John Shull 49:08
I'm going to come back to that to those actually. Higher and higher on the list. Okay, okay. Kind of interesting that you have, huh? All right. My number three is is a tie actually my one of two ties on my list. This is Spencer's and hot topic.
Nick VinZant 49:25
Ah, I have those higher on the list. Okay, I have those higher on the list.
John Shull 49:31
I mean, I Spencers was great for gag gifts. They always had like the weird stuff. Hot Topic is hot topic. Yeah, there once again, I feel like a hot topic is more iconic than Spencer's. But I had to I had to group them in kind of as one store. Okay,
Nick VinZant 49:49
my number three is the massage kiosk at the mall. Because I'm always wondering like who the hell is getting a 10 minute massage from some random person in the middle of mall I didn't even know fascinated by that. I
John Shull 50:04
thought about putting that in like the the ear piercing.
Nick VinZant 50:08
So the key Yes, yeah. But I
John Shull 50:12
was like those aren't really I guess they are shops because it's uh, you know they make money, but I did. Yeah, but the mind.
Nick VinZant 50:18
I can also do like the phone case one where they have like 15,000 Different kinds of phone cases. You know, and they're all like somehow they're all crap.
John Shull 50:29
My number two, the Hallmark store.
Nick VinZant 50:33
Okay, I can see it. I can see it. That was a story that like you had to go to, like, Oh, I gotta go to Hallmark with mom. Yeah,
John Shull 50:41
we gotta go a $8 card in the 90s which was expensive for grandma who's not gonna even give a shit.
Nick VinZant 50:48
Can't even read it anymore. But she had to go. Yeah,
John Shull 50:52
yeah, you had to go man. I've the Hallmark store anyways, watch number two.
Nick VinZant 50:57
I thought about putting this in number one for a long time. But my number two is to borrows pizza.
John Shull 51:03
See once I left off like food court stuff because to me, like those aren't stores within the actual mall, but they are stores but whatever. Good good choice to borrow is. I mean, it's the pizza. It's the mall pizza chain. That's what it is.
Nick VinZant 51:18
It is it? I think it's easily the most iconic food place in the mall is tomorrow's pizza.
John Shull 51:24
That and I think Panda Express before that, like they're close for me Panda Express. And so borrow in the mall.
Nick VinZant 51:30
The only one that I would put. I wouldn't buy Panda Express. Maybe you went to a nicer more than I did. But I would go Spyros pizza and then I would go like wetzels pretzels or the whatever kind of pretzels store was there? That was the only place in the world you could get pets pretzels was a mall? Yes.
John Shull 51:48
I wanted to put this on my list. It's funny you say that? I did it because I thought it was hyperlocal. But we had a place at a mall at the mall, which was a child called a pretzel peddler. And man, you would pay like four bucks and get like little dunkers and all this cheese and good times. That
Nick VinZant 52:05
was the only place you could get a pretzel baseball game or the mall. What's another one? I would say Jamba Juice. Well, there's always like some kind of smoothie place before they got really popular. Yeah,
John Shull 52:17
Orange. Man. There was one Orange Crush or something. Yeah, there's always one orange. Julius. Yes, Orange. Julius Julius. Yeah.
Nick VinZant 52:27
Now I can still remember the location of this of Barros pizza at the mall. We used to go to remember exactly what he said as big as pizzas. Okay. What's your what's your, what's your number one? I
John Shull 52:39
mean, I kind of alluded to it. It's I mean, it has to be JC Penney's and Macy's. I mean, I remember going to the mall you like you'd start in the middle and then you'd go hit one at the one end. And you have to walk all the way to the other end. So go the other store, and you had to hit both. You had
Nick VinZant 52:56
to? Did they have Did you ever have a mall with a Sears too? Did you have to go to Sears? Well, yeah,
John Shull 53:00
Sears for sure. But the Sears is there the I feel like they're thriving. Now. Sears came back for whatever reason. And I feel like Macy's and JC Penney are kind of you know, yeah, but I guess you I guess you could really couple all three. And as one. I did want, I felt I actually put an asterisk here. If we were doing like home based Leno, like personal number ones, and not trying to be 100% You know, 100% and real about this. I would have put Steve and Barry's as my number one. I don't even know what that is. It was the place where you could go get like $5 graphic T shirts like Michigan State T shirts and all these all they were were green and white. And they just said Michigan State like that's it or like, Oh,
Nick VinZant 53:44
they're just cheap cheap T shirts. There was always like the weird sporting goods store that was in the mall. That was like they kind of had nothing, but they had everything at the same time.
John Shull 53:56
Yeah. Yeah, did like Dick's I think Dick's Sporting Goods I believe started or malls, but what I just
Nick VinZant 54:04
will never understand. I will never understand naming your store after body parts. I
John Shull 54:11
mean, what? It still makes me laugh because I'm a child. But, you know, we would say hey, we're going to Dick's to get some balls. Like you know, or something stupid. When
Nick VinZant 54:24
I was in Orlando, there was a store called BJs and I always thought that my business plan if I was ever like a regional manager would have to put all the BJs next to Dick's you wouldn't people would go there just to laugh. Like why are you coming here? Well, we're gonna go to that place to get my store picture taken and well, I guess we'll go buy something too. I think that's a marketing plan. My number one is hot topic. I think Hot Topic is the quintessential mall store because you're either gonna go in there and see something or you're gonna go in there and see someone like it's entertained. That's the most entertaining mall stores Hot Topic.
John Shull 54:58
Yeah, but by Far that and Spencers obviously.
Nick VinZant 55:01
Yeah, those are like quintessential ones right. And something
John Shull 55:05
Oh my honorable mention. I think it's up there too. And that's GameStop.
Nick VinZant 55:09
I have Gamestop on my honorable mention. What else do you have on your honorable mention?
John Shull 55:13
Let me let me open my list here. Yeah, so FYI, II
Nick VinZant 55:17
know Yeah, yeah. For your entertainment for your
John Shull 55:21
which would be like, Hey, I'm going to get a DVD that cost $5 At Walmart, but it's $18. There. Right. Right. It was like all crap. I don't know how they've stayed in business if even if they are in business. Famous footwear.
Nick VinZant 55:34
Okay, yeah. footlocker. Foot Locker could make foot lockers and oversight that probably could have made a run way up at the top. Then
John Shull 55:45
this one, a personal one again, but I remember many Christmas Eve is my father trying to figure out something creative for my mother for Christmas. So we would go to Things Remembered.
Nick VinZant 55:58
Hmm, like sentimental things. I'm going to get some crap but try to pull off like I care.
John Shull 56:04
I'm going to pay $40 to have you and your sisters named edged into a cup and give it to your mother.
Nick VinZant 56:13
I don't want any of that crap.
John Shull 56:16
I don't either. I don't even Yeah, no.
Nick VinZant 56:19
I would rather get nothing then get something like that. If I had a choice between you want like world's greatest dad coffee mug? Or nothing? Like Well, nothing, because at least I don't want to wash the cop or find reason to keep it.
John Shull 56:33
Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, right. I mean, if I'll take it if it's from the heart, but if you know if I know you went out eight hours before Christmas morning and bought it. I mean,
Nick VinZant 56:44
yeah, that doesn't count. Right. Um, I have built a bear in my honorable mention. I have Gamestop the buckle I think could make a strong run. I just always hated that store because you couldn't get within. You could not get more than three feet into that store before somebody talked to you.
John Shull 57:02
I mean, I had a few written down but like the buccal gap. Era Postel Oh, yeah. But you know, I don't know. Those aren't eidetic Yeah.
Nick VinZant 57:15
Yeah, because they existed other places that you knew that you could like get those someplace else. Yeah, that's all I got.
Unknown Speaker 57:24
That's it. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Nick VinZant 57:27
Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance. Leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. It really does help out the show. And let us know what you think are some of the best mall stores. There's a lot when you get to thinking about it. I think Hot Topic is still kind of the iconic one. But let us know what you think man. There's definitely some other ones that can make a run for it.
Our glaciers aren’t just melting, they’re changing the planet. Affecting gravity, sea levels and the shape of continents. Glaciologist Dr. Timothy Barthalomous studies how glaciers move. We talk glaciers, climate change and what’s happening to North Carolina. Then, we unveil a new Candle of the Month and countdown the Top 5 Christmas Decorations.
Dr. Timothy Bartholomaus: 01:15
Pointless: 38:29
Candle of the Month: 58:28
Top 5 Christmas Decorations: 59:49
From intricate flowers with detailed petals to giant dragons carved from 300 pound blocks of ice, renowned Ice Sculptor Shintaro Okamoto turns ice into art. We talk Ice Sculpting, chainsaws and the joy and pain of watching his art melt away. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Winter Animals.
Shintaro Okamoto: 01:24
Pointless: 35:17
Top 5 Winter Animals: 52:06
Nick VinZant 0:00
Hi welcome to Profoundly Pointless, my name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode I sculptures and winter animals,
Shintaro Okamoto 0:21
in a way, I think there's a, there's a ghost that you always carry, you know, when you're creating something static was an ice, it's gone. And there's something very liberating about it, how warm ice and cold ice interact is very different. And these little sciences that we know, we manipulate to the max to create what we create. And then I use a chainsaw, no matter how big how small the sculpture is, I would say about 70% of the work we do we use a chainsaw,
Nick VinZant 0:51
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest creates some of the biggest, most intricate and awe inspiring ice sculptures in the world. This is World Champion ice sculptor, Shintaro aka Moto, what is it about ice like why ice? To me
Shintaro Okamoto 1:26
ice is the most under investigated underappreciated material, you know, ice is, is is ephemeral, it's it's a, you know, constantly changing, you know, deteriorating disappearing material, I see ice is more of a performance piece, you know, all the work that goes in there to create something, but I think I think the real power happens once he leaves our studio. You know, ice has a volume, but no color, other, you know, with the transparency. So, you know, it relies on its silhouette and contour. It's Crystaline in the sense that it really resolved its volume through light. So we have to think about, you know, refractions is has, I think a real fitting place in places like events industry, because it's that one time, you know, of the moment, kind of physical Ising, the time passing kind of thing, you know, that
Nick VinZant 2:28
makes sense to me in the sense that art that ice is art is always changing is that something that kind of draw drew you to it, in that regard, that this sculpture that I created at eight o'clock is not going to be the same as the sculpture is at nine o'clock.
Shintaro Okamoto 2:42
I mean, that constant changing is definitely attractive, you know, no matter how much we kind of have, idea, a plan of what it will do. It's always defies expectations, you know, because there are so many variables to what what, what will change ice from the room temperature to airflow to, you know, sunlight, or how much people are touching, interacting. And, and to me, it's just humbling because, you know, my, my formal training as a painter, something that's incredibly on the up, you know, static on the other end of it. And, and then once you create something, it stays and lives with you. And on a personal level, or, you know, I see what I learned from but I'm always running to move on to, to kind of you know, grow from that point. It's, you know, when you making something I think that stays you're thinking about what next can you create, and in a way I think there's a there's a ghost that you always carry, you know, when you're creating something static was an ice, it's gone. And there's something very liberating about it. And it has allowed me to just really focus and enjoy the process
Nick VinZant 4:05
is ice from a technical standpoint, is it fundamentally harder or easier to work with and other sculpting mediums as
Shintaro Okamoto 4:12
a sculpting process is very similar to any other hard material carving, you know, it's essentially reductive carving. But you know, the tools that we use from chain saws, chisels, drills, saws, you know, it's about, you know, taking away the negative material and you know, creating a form that lives within a space. So if you have a very sharp material you know, it's it's a very similar process. It's a big difference with I think any other material is that you can execute incredibly fast. So what it takes for in days and weeks, months with stone or wood, we can realize it in hours. And I think that's something very, very different.
Nick VinZant 5:03
Why is that? Is it just because ice is a more malleable material? Or because of the techniques that you're using? Like, why are you able to do it faster?
Shintaro Okamoto 5:10
I think with a sharp, sharp tools, it's very receptive to cutting, you know, I mean, I mean, I think that's the interesting about ice as a material is there's this constant kind of polar dichotomy to it, that it's, but it's because it's, it's hard, but it's soft, it's, it's strong, but it's fragile. And, you know, depending on how ice gets hit on the surface, at what angle, it reacts very differently. You know, it's heavy, but it's it's buoyant, you know, it floats in water, you know, it's a very interesting material.
Nick VinZant 5:52
Yeah, I would imagine that you could crack it all the way through quite easily.
Shintaro Okamoto 5:57
You can I mean, if you have an ice pick that has a force in one singular, you know, point it can shatter. But if you take a sledgehammer and try and break ice, he actually doesn't break that that easily. You know? So how you hit and where you hit, ice behaves very differently.
Nick VinZant 6:18
Did you step into another medium? Could you go work with wood? Or go work with stone? Like, could you? Could you translate to another medium easier than somebody could come into ice? Do you think
Shintaro Okamoto 6:28
the act of carving is very similar? The tools we use to carve is very similar. But like with any material, it has its own tendencies that we all have to learn. So it does a crossover? Well, yeah, I think it does cross over well, and, and then the rest is all small things, you know, you know how ice behaves in below freezing environment is very different from how ice behaves in above freezing melty environment, how warm ice and cold ice interact is very different. And these little sciences that we know, we manipulate to the max to create what we create.
Nick VinZant 7:16
So where do you get the ice from? Like, does it have to? Is it a special kind of ice or is it just man I just fill up. This is just regular old ice,
Shintaro Okamoto 7:26
it is a special kind of ice. You know, in the industry standard is the ice, there's the carving blocks, it's a crystal clear ice, it's crystal clear because it's it's free of any air bubbles, that's trapped inside that would naturally happen when you're freezing still still water. You know, if you have a bucket of water in a freezer or below freezing environment as is you'll get very cloudy white ice, like ice, again, conventional freezer in your refrigerator. Right? Those are tiny air bubbles, so it gets trapped inside. Because, you know in the process basically, when you're freezing from all sides, the last place that freeze is the middle of your water. And at that point, as water freezes these, these air bubbles from the air from HTO. You know, as he becomes more static, kind of kind of kind of release itself. And you know, there's no place for that to go. So you get these cloudy ice, clear ice happens. Where you we have two things One Direction freezing. So it's not freezing from all around but from for our machines and our machines, not a special machine that we build, but it's an industry standard machine. But it freezes from bottom up where there's only a coolant in the bottom and all the rest of the sides just have installations to kind of keep the temperature focused, so freezes bottom up. And the second thing is moving water agitating the water as it freezes by, by freezing one direction, you're keeping the impurities in air bubbles on the surface of the ice as he freezes. And by moving the water it kind of brushes the surface of the water constantly and releases to air bubbles as it goes. It's a slower process than freezing still water. So it takes about about three days a cycle, an industrial machine makes two blocks per machine. Usually, each block is about 300 pounds about you know for little over 40 gallons of water. And I mean that's that's how you making me. i It's often said that he kind of mirrors how Lake ice is made, because Lake ice is kind of inverting that that idea. Lake ice naturally is kind of moving circulating within that lake. So the water is constantly moving and it's freezing from top down. You know the bottom is the warmest you know, you know relatively so oftentimes an old times that you know once you cut the whole snow part of the top Ice you get a very clear you know blueish ice that you can pull out
Nick VinZant 10:05
Will you ever use kind of like natural ice will you ever do that
Shintaro Okamoto 10:09
I have I'm gonna have an opportunity there are you know very choice i sculpting competitions exhibitions way up doors you know they're famous ones are like the ice Alaska up in Fairbanks, Alaska to Yellowknife up up in Yukon Territory in Canada, you know and where you can get naturalized and it's where very hardcore ours Carver's will love to come get together and it's, it's come become a pilgrimage for a you know, top ice carvers to, you know, eventually get to where you get to carve natural big blocks of ice to to carve something. I've always had a chance, you know, opportunity to carve glace glacial ice in the past, you know, I Carina ice ice berg, that was really interesting. As if that's a there's a different ice where ice resulted from, you know, just 1000s of years of compacted snow and raining whatever into it. It's actually not a great carving ice. It's got a lot of sediments and volcano ashes and all these things that will really damage your tools right away. And it's very, you know, porous and brittle and unexpected. But it's you know, it's definitely a fun experience.
Nick VinZant 11:29
So then when you work on the ice, like what, what temperature you like, ideally like you're trying to work on the ice and this temperature of a room.
Shintaro Okamoto 11:37
There are two ways of carving though we we all come across we are either a wet Carver or dry Carver dry Carver's are those who carve in the freezer, or below freezing environment. Wet Carver's are those who carve outside the freezer, you know, my father, who taught myself and you know, many of the, the carver's that have grown to, you know, become principal Carver's, for us in our studio, we all were taught. As wet Carver's, first, there's a lot more variables to to planning, think about because your ice is melting as you're carving. Now, clear ice is slow melting ice, much, much slower than kind of the conventional kind of cloudy white ice, you know, being clear of air bubbles means he's got least amount of surface areas, and the rate of melting other than the temperature is really the exposure to that surface, where air can can really react to the temperature more. So crystal clear ice is very slow melting ice and, and you know, even in the hottest days and you know, in the above 90 degrees, it's, it's, it's workable. And of course, we just have to plan that much more to it, you know, you have to really plan your steps, you know, you need to save your details to the very, very end, you know, what you want to think about where you want to exaggerate certain forms. So you can kind of really hit that spot right when you're done. A dry carving is then is visibly different. Uh, a game, you know, when you're doing something very, very, you know, meticulous detailed. A dry carving, carving in the freezer will definitely free as of, of, you know, worrying about losing losing those details. So at that point, you can really focus on on the you know, the forms and and really push the boundaries of the materials. But sometimes it's harder to see where you're going to get because when you cars inside the freezer, your your eyes tend to get a little bit you know, hazier. So in which case we have to kind of blow torch the surface or heat on the surface to to get it all clear up, I think you'll learn a lot more as a woodcarver. It's it's kind of a old school way Old World way of carving something and, you know, just like anything, you know, the old ways it just everything's just more manual. You know, it's everything's little more right at the tip of your fingers and you got to be on your toes to get everything everything done. So you know, but we do both in our studio.
Nick VinZant 14:28
Is there a rivalry between the wet and dry Carver's like oh, look at this guy. Yeah, wet car where you can't carve dry.
Shintaro Okamoto 14:37
Well, I mean, if you get wet carve, I mean, everyone who dried carves. I mean any wet Carver's can go in the freezer and be like, Wow, this is so great. You know, it's not melting so I can have so much more fun. But I've come across many dry carvers, Carver's have only carved inside the freezer. Just panic when you're carving outside because, you know they Haven't had the the foresight that brain muscle to really know to plan your your course of action, you know, because your ice is melting. So I think there's definitely advantage when you know how to carve, do you
Nick VinZant 15:16
have to kind of anticipate how the ice is going to change like, Okay, I'm gonna make this feature, but I know I have to make it like this and then let it melt down and then it will look the way that I want it to. Yeah,
Shintaro Okamoto 15:29
this definitely certainly way to modify and manipulate, accommodate, adjust the design based on melting. But mainly, it's really again, like knowing ice as a material, oftentimes what we do, you know, we run an arts business, you know, we carve something and has leaves the studio, it needs to be wrapped, it needs to be transported, oftentimes disassembled in parts, and then deliver to a site and then reassembled and then go through the duration of the event. And, and live through its peak, you know, viewing in those hours. So we know we have to think about all of that as we're carving it. So if you're carving something pointy, will often not take it to that point, but give a little bit of bluntness, you know, blunt tip at the edge, and that gives strength so that when you hit it, it, you know, when you wrap it, or as we hold it, it doesn't just break off, but he has enough taper that as he starts melting, or even even then, like he has, you know, he has suggestions of point already, but strength given by its volume, and the way he melts, really kind of follows that form some Carver's may keep it chunky and say, Well, this is gonna look great, you know, a couple hours into it. But I'm realized that it's, you know, if the silhouette, if the, if the lines are correct and tight, it it melts that way. You know, if you carve chunky, it stays chunky, even as it melts away and disappears. And I always believe that with ice sculpture, it's the first impression and as he melts away that memories told kind of stays, you know, so it's it to me I experiencing ice sculpture is really more about the memory of what it is then what really is that
Nick VinZant 17:45
kind of leads us into some of our listeners submitted questions. So are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?
Shintaro Okamoto 17:51
Yeah, let's do it.
Nick VinZant 17:52
So this first one is kind of along those lines in the sense that do you look at the fact that it melts as sad or what makes it special,
Shintaro Okamoto 18:01
I certainly am in a camp of of it being very special, that it melts away on a personal level, it's, it's that it's that practice of letting go for me that I really appreciate. You know, it's, it's, I get to really focus on the process, the beauty of working with ice is not the fighting of it disappearing, it's really the embracing of it disappearing, that's what makes it special. It's really amazing when people see our work and and be so amazed at how much work you put into something that's disappearing. And that that gap really activates the sculpture and that I think the art experience like nothing else a sculpture Do you know
Nick VinZant 18:51
follow up that insightful and thoughtful answer with how do you get rid of it like do they just let it melt? They just throw it in the bathtub like what do you do? Yeah,
Shintaro Okamoto 19:00
there's a lot of logistics there there's definitely an art of its own and disposing ice but essentially it's about breaking it and you know controlled contain breaking and again that you know that's similar question of is is sad to break it can come into play but I think all of us who work with ice also find it incredibly liberating to break it away to If anything, it's like this stress reliever you know, we often joke how you know we see these like, you know, break rooms where, where people can go into like, abandoned cars and smash things to relieve your stress. It's very close to that. You know, it's great to go in there and just break everything. I mean, if that's if our job is to just break well, we got it can be really fun. We can use various tools to break our eyes but our favorite tool of choices as Simple good ol ice pick,
Nick VinZant 20:01
is there anything that you can't do in the sense that like, oh, I would really like to do this, I would really like to do this sculpture, but you just can't do that with ice.
Shintaro Okamoto 20:10
There's a lot you can do with ice. I mean, the only thing is we can defy gravity. I mean, as I say, that's what I say to my clients, you know, we get to work with, you know, car designers, and, you know, design a runway and lighting designers and we've made chandeliers, you know, out of ice and hanging from the trusses. And there's so much that that, that the we been challenged to do and it's really about solving problems. What was
Nick VinZant 20:42
your personal favorite piece thing that you've done this, like, Ah, that was that was, that was my favorite.
Shintaro Okamoto 20:47
My favorite pieces are all public installations. You know, just because it's where we get the show slice of magic of what we do. And having the people who didn't expect to encounter our work, to, to find in their passing or days to, to see your work, and then interact with it, and interact with real physically, you know, where, where our pieces are, where we're where we invite people to touch our eyes. That's another thing that I always love is I love people touching our work, you know, in kind of, you know, art world etiquette, you don't touch art pieces, you know, you don't touch sculptures, but when people touch our sculptures, and then be like, Oh, wow, it's ice, it's really ice. And it's really this big. And why is it here, you know, and again, I love making ice sculptures in this city that I work in, because we've got to do some really cool things. And we get to have a lot of people, you know, experience our work, I've done pieces for we've frozen 1000 pairs of flip flops, in the middle of Union Square, where people were invited to, you know, try to melt the ice away and to grab, you know, parents of flip flops, or, you know, we've done you know, you know, cityscape, inspire pillars of ice, where people can walk around, like amaze. Just really cool things and to be able to again, share with people who are unexpecting Do you
Nick VinZant 22:39
think that can this love raise to the level of kind of high art? And when I think of kind of high art in terms of like Weronika or Mona Lisa, do you think that this medium can raise to that level of high art?
Shintaro Okamoto 22:52
I think so. Art is is is documented and and understood in such spectrum today. And it's, it's, I think it's ultimately where we choose to engage ourselves in.
Nick VinZant 23:10
So this one here? Yeah, this is essentially a shoe like, how did you do this?
Shintaro Okamoto 23:17
I mean, this is a great example of really having that little sneak peek of though magic or where you create something, you know, this is a you know, a video piece collaboration, we deal with hype Hypebeast, where we were I got to carve, you know, the Air Jordan, um, you can see the video, it starts from a block of ice and we you know, I cut it to the overall volume of, of the block. And I did a simple grid transfer of the image. And then I use a chainsaw, no matter how big how small the sculpture is, I would say about 70% of the work we do, we use a chainsaw, electric chainsaw that we use. And I cut the negative space. And then I do the basic leveling of the kind of the volume, the angles, I pushed the chase as much as I can. It's amazing. You can see how amazing level of finesse you can get from something as brute as chainsaw. You know, there's a lot that you can do. And then once we have the shape, pretty much said I use what we call a chipper, which is basically like a multi prong ice pick, which has been kind of a preferred tool, very similar to chisels, but much easier to maintain and eats ice much easier. So why use a chipper or chisel to get the final overall volume? And then I use die grinders to really fine tune shape, and dine grinders have different bits that heads they can create the shape. Like in this video I have Burr, which is this tiny prickled bit it says orange had bit that you've seen a video that really shaves off all the corners and edges of the shape that I've chipped away. And I really tend to smooths out the overall shape. And I really kind of finished the total complete outer volume of the shape. And then from there, I use finer bits like knife bits and needle bits, we call them. As you can see from the name, they had a finer tip. Sometimes I'll finish off with small chisels to, you know, push down certain areas. So I look like if overlapping ones on top of each other or going under. That's about it. And then I finish it off with either a torch or sometimes even a splash of water and get it all nice and clear.
Nick VinZant 26:11
I noticed that but what why is the bullet Now why does the blowtorch make it look like that? Like I'm looking at it? It's a little bit. I'll just use the word I kind of cloudy and then you hit it with that blowtorch. And I'm like, Oh my God. Yeah,
Shintaro Okamoto 26:24
yeah, well, you know, the fine. The final tools that we use are Sol Sol fine that in between the tool bit marks, snow gets inside, you know. So the haziness comes from the snow. And you know, in this instance, he was nice, cold day. So, you know, there's some Frost's that can remain or maintain on the ice surface. So we often do a finish with either water or blowtorch to get the true clarity to really kind of basically melt down the snow particles that that sticks to the ice. And once that's cleared up, we once we put it in the freezer, you know, all those wet surfaces will dry up right away, and it becomes a stable, you know, final state, you know, state is in a stage of the sculpture.
Nick VinZant 27:22
Now, how long would that how long did that take you to do? The sculpture itself
Shintaro Okamoto 27:27
probably took about an hour itself to really carve it, I would like to go fast as I can, because I'm carving outside the freezer one. So I'm wet carving here. So ice is slowly melting. But I can go that fast, because I took my time to plan my tools. You know, I can go that fast, because I did my drawing. So I think it's a very fair thing to always calculate what how much planning goes in there to, you know,
Nick VinZant 27:58
yeah, there's a huge difference between the time that like, I'm actually physically working on it versus the preparation for it. Yeah. Like, it's really impressive. I have no artistic ability, or whatever, like just just as this a whole car.
Shintaro Okamoto 28:15
Yeah, that was a fun collaboration I did with Porsche. And this was cool, because I know I got to carve the replica of the sculpture. And then we blow torched it down to nothing. But then the director then played it backwards. As if the fire is what's making the sculpture. So that was his, that was his narrative. And, you know, gave me this, this, this this concept, and I just thought it was so brilliant, you know, simple and direct and really kind of turning itself.
Nick VinZant 28:56
I'm amazed at the amount of intricacy that you can get in there now. So, okay, I don't know anything about art. So this question is might not make any sense. But like, how do you get kind of the perspective on it in the sense where like, you can see the angles, it looks three dimensional? Like, do you have to account for the way that light is going to hit it?
Shintaro Okamoto 29:21
You know, creating a sculpture? I mean, to do anything, right? Anything you do you break it down to small pieces. And it's about it's about putting together the building blocks to get to your goal, right. So for sculptures, it's a 3d piece, we can break it down to series of 2d pieces, you know, so you understand the front, the side yeah, right, the backs and tops, you take those measurements, you and then You You piece them together, and you naturally get the 3d piece achieved that that said, I you know, in our studio I think almost all of my Carver's that I work with, they're painters, and maybe because one my backgrounds, my background is in paint painting, I'm a painter, I think everything in paintings. I think too, you know, as a painter as a draftsman, you know, you, you, I quickly learned that you carve as well, as you draw, you know, you need to know how to draw, and especially because what we do, we don't make sculptures that investigates the material vise, you know, what we do is not just abstract pieces, you know, it's not what we want to do only, we recreate pieces, what our clients bring to our table every day. And one day we'll carve a replica of, of, you know, of you, you know, or, or, you know, we carve a replica of a Porsche, or, you know, Air Jordan sneakers, or a logo, or a building or whatnot, you know, or a kangaroo, you know, and knew you need to have this basic knowledge of proportions of things in the world, we often talk about that, you know, you kind of have to know, these things, you have to have a very deep, I think, sixth sense of what things kind of, is shaped like, you know, we all have this general curiosities of, of shape, in everything. And that's a very, very special thing that I was looking for with people that I work with, you just have to be curious about
Nick VinZant 31:54
everything. So what is this tell me about this, and
Shintaro Okamoto 31:58
this was a collaboration we've done with Hunter boots, people love seeing things frozen inside ice, you know, when you see something frozen inside ice. Again, there's another sense of timelessness, you know, there's a, you know, frozen in time, that's literally there, you know, um,
Nick VinZant 32:14
that's pretty much all the questions I've got, is there anything that you think that we missed or anything like that,
Shintaro Okamoto 32:20
ice sculpting ice carving, I think is fascinating, because it kind of exist outside of, I think what people understand is, is a, an art world, you know, it's it's essentially an outsider art genre. You know, it's, it's a sculpture that's often mostly done by non art trained artists, you know, because ice carving, most often come across, especially in America through culinary lineage. It's many of those Carver's are people who were ex chefs. And it's a very passionate community. It's a very innovative community, because most all of our tools are something that developed from taking tools off the shelf from from hardware stores, and then modifying it to work with ice, and then sharing that with ice community at large. So I fell in love with this craft, I think a lot less about the craft itself, but really people and and even for today, you know, I have so many mentors in ice community, who are constantly pushing the material. And I really owe to them more than anything with what we get to do every day, and I don't take it for granted all the knowledge and skill set that we have, that it's in the it's really in the you know, the pillars and foundations of so many crazy as people who work with ice.
Nick VinZant 34:08
I want to thank Shintaro so much for joining us if you want to connect with him, we have a link to him on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram, and YouTube. And we've also included his information in the episode description. If you want to see more of some of the sculptures and how he creates them. The YouTube version of this episode, we'll be live on November 30. At 12:30pm Pacific. One show change that I probably should have mentioned a long time ago, but just kind of forgot about is that we're restructuring the way that we do the show. We're still going to have exactly the same kind of guests and exactly the same kind of conversations. It's just that we're going to group things along monthly themes. So October we did spooky. November was sex and money. December is going to be all winter and then going into January, we're going to look at the future. Okay. Now let's bring in John Shaw, and get to the pointless part of the show. Do you have any artistic talent? No. What areas of life? Do you feel like you just have no talent in probably
John Shull 35:23
anything to do with art?
Nick VinZant 35:25
I feel like I have no talent artistically. I can't repair or fix anything or build anything.
John Shull 35:33
I mean, am I good at cooking? Probably not. But I like to do it. So I mean, do I have talent?
Nick VinZant 35:40
No, I can't cook. But I don't have a sense of smell. So I have a really good reason for me not to be able to cook so I don't care about it. Like nobody would ever look at me and be like, Who's Who should cook this? We'll have him do it. Like, No, I shouldn't be the one doing that.
John Shull 35:56
What are you? Are you afraid to cook?
Nick VinZant 35:59
I have never cooked for anyone else.
John Shull 36:02
Except your wife? No,
Nick VinZant 36:05
not even my wife. I have never like cooked for my wife. I browned meat or something like that. But I don't have a sense of smell. So like, why would I cook for somebody? Why would be like, well, who should do it? Right? Like we need somebody to look something up? Well, you wouldn't have the blind guy do it? Well, that's not the ideal choice.
John Shull 36:25
I feel like that's going to completely like, you know, far left or right. Example there. But
Nick VinZant 36:32
an example right, it's also losing a sense that is crucial to that thing.
John Shull 36:37
I honestly feel though that if this if the roles were reversed, and I just admitted to you that I had never cooked a meal for Melissa, you would be dragging me through the mud if I had a smell or not know
Nick VinZant 36:51
cuz I like to me, though that didn't make any like, I don't see why that's a big deal. I
John Shull 36:57
mean, it's I think it's more of a thought it's more of taking the time and effort to try and do something for the other person, whether it's good or not. I just I'm more I'm more amazed at the fact that you've never cooked a meal for her. How did you get away with that?
Nick VinZant 37:13
Why? Because I don't have a sense of smell. Why would it like Do you want me to make something for you? That's not going to taste good? No? Okay, then like, that's a pretty easy situation to solve.
John Shull 37:23
I'd still take it I you know, if you came to me, you're like, to me, that's just
Nick VinZant 37:27
a waste of time. I don't understand that at all. But he wants you to do something poorly for
John Shull 37:32
me. But here's the thing, maybe you're actually an outstanding cook, but you've never tried it.
Nick VinZant 37:37
I'm not. I've made meals for my children. They're not any good. That does a cow. Kill. It doesn't count. It's the same basic principle, if you will. I don't understand why you would want someone to do something for you. If you know that they're not good at it.
John Shull 37:52
I understand. You're saying I don't think you've given it a fair chance. That's all I'm saying. You
Nick VinZant 37:56
want grilled cheese. I'll make grilled cheese. I've made my wife grilled cheese. I'm not going to sit there and try to make her like pasta. buzzoole
John Shull 38:04
Alright, so we'll start with Robert miles. Winston Wolf. little alliteration there. That's cool. Jim knots. Matt Taylor. Christian wager Lee. David Perez, Brian Poon insky. Michael Vivi air, Rene. Vela. And Brian rea says, appreciate all of you.
Nick VinZant 38:30
Okay, okay.
John Shull 38:32
Got it. I was Chris that was crisp and clean. Huh? Got some bangers for you. Okay. This one's a weird one. And I'm not really sure most of these came to me while I was sitting, thinking after a couple of pops over the weekend, so I don't know how these are going to turn out but
Nick VinZant 38:58
are they legible? Like did you write them down?
John Shull 39:02
I wrote them down on my phone but the words are were so Miss jumbled, but I think I got it. Why didn't
Nick VinZant 39:08
you just use voice to text?
John Shull 39:09
I mean, you've been an abbreviated Do you think things through because I don't
Nick VinZant 39:17
know Not really. But I still use voice to text if you use voice to text do you hold the phone out in front of you or to the side of you? Ooh
John Shull 39:28
probably out in front I don't I don't use I don't utilize that very often. Oh, I've become
Nick VinZant 39:33
too lazy to even like type out text messages. I want voice to text the whole way.
John Shull 39:38
You want the BlackBerry back is what you want.
Nick VinZant 39:41
I loved my Blackberry was a great phone. Still the best phone ever had so easy. Alright,
John Shull 39:46
let's see. So this one, I believe this is what it was. Would you rather be a kid your entire life or an adult your entire life?
Nick VinZant 39:57
How old is the kid? I need to know specifics right? There's a big difference between a five year old I don't want to be a five year old all my life. I could be maybe an 18 year old all my life.
John Shull 40:06
No, I'm gonna say 12 or 43.
Nick VinZant 40:13
That's like a hard age range to well, 43. Man, I mean, ultimately, you want to be able to like experience life and do all kinds of stuff. You don't want to go through life as a 12 year old. That's not because you won't be able to do a whole bunch of stuff. Right? You couldn't explain to people that no, I'm actually 47 I just looked like a 12 year old. So I'd rather be 43 Especially if you were going to be like a mortal, on that immortal, but your whole life at 43? That's a pretty good deal. That's what I know. This is an easy answer. I think I would much rather anything under 70 I would rather spend my whole life under 100 That I'd rather spend my life as an adult, you can do all the adult things.
John Shull 40:51
I think there's a sense of honesty of being trolled your entire life. You can just have fun, no risk, no real responsibility, could eat and drink all the crap you wanted.
Nick VinZant 41:01
Because yeah, but you're gonna be like looking like a 12 year old when you've been alive for like 50 years, man, you're gonna be pretty tired of playing at the playground. I
John Shull 41:10
mean, listen, Benjamin Button, calm down over there. You look like you're 12.
Nick VinZant 41:14
I'm just saying, well, that's a compliment. I'll take that. You know,
John Shull 41:17
that leads me to something else here. All right, I was. I was age profiled over the weekend, and I'm a little upset about it. I'm at a grocery store checking out. And I had a bottle of tequila that I was buying. And the woman comes over. She wasn't going to check my ID. She looks at me and she goes, you don't have any gray hair. So I'm going to need to see your ID.
Nick VinZant 41:43
Okay, sounds like she's doing her job.
John Shull 41:45
I look 40 I clearly do not look 21 and under, but because I don't have any gray hair. So my question is, I don't know if that's a compliment. Or if I if I look so young that like it's just not attractive anymore? I don't know. I don't know.
Nick VinZant 42:02
Well, it's probably an insult if you're under 25. But if you're like 40, and somebody's checking your idea, that's a compliment. Okay, all right. Yeah, it's an insult if you're that age, but like 22 and somebody's like, you look like a 16 year old and you're like, Oh,
John Shull 42:18
I kind of gotta have annoyed for like a quick second. Because I'm like, I have some gray hair or rare some gray hair. Well, I I just wow,
Nick VinZant 42:28
rare. Good way to do it. I don't mind it, actually.
John Shull 42:32
So clearly, I she wasn't looking at my hair. She just wanted to find an excuse to card me, which is fine. I don't mind like I'm all for it. But you know, don't. Don't come at me. It's what I'm saying. Why
Nick VinZant 42:45
don't you let these minor inconveniences affect your life? Because, like, why did you Why do you let this affect your life? This would not affect me for any second, right? If somebody carded me, and was like, hey, I need to see your ID for a second. One second, after they hand it back to me. I've already forgotten about it. Like, you can't dwell on these things, man. Okay, move on with your life. When At what age?
John Shull 43:06
Do you start to get annoyed when you get when you get carded? Never
Nick VinZant 43:10
because it's just somebody's doing their job. It's like I would if I was 97. And somebody was like, hey, we need to see your ID. I'm like, okay, cool. Here it is. Like, what's the big deal? Do you know why you never get into your life?
John Shull 43:25
Do you know why you never get carded? Is because you buy the shittiest beer and they know someone who's super old is buying that beer. Maybe
Nick VinZant 43:32
because I don't really stress out about little situations. So that keeps me looking younger and then I get carded over things
John Shull 43:39
I didn't say that I was stressed out I was just I was just like huh like you're already punching in the you know the okay and then you look at me and then now you want my ID or
Nick VinZant 43:50
they probably remember that they have to scan it for bike store policy and they just thought of something to say to us so they they didn't have to hear you get all pissed off about also like I could just say this store policy I didn't need to card you or they could be like oh you look young and then you'd be like oh I guess I do and then handed right they're just sucker new in man they're just why
John Shull 44:10
didn't you just make me sound like Santa Claus for a second oh
Nick VinZant 44:16
well you probably like oh I do look young today right like your a gap or gap
John Shull 44:22
I did actually I did like I did. I did turn it around and I was like, I'll be carded anytime oh that's a great thing and
Nick VinZant 44:29
yeah see right they suckered you right in you played right into their hand now they got your ID all your information they probably opened a bank account in your name and pretty soon you're going to be living on the street all because of this one interaction.
John Shull 44:40
But I did get the tequila and it made for a fantastic
Nick VinZant 44:47
I can't drink tequila man anymore. I just even the word
John Shull 44:52
I had to get something and it was a wrestling Pay Per View night all boys so you know it was it was a good night sad. At last, that means
Nick VinZant 45:02
whacking off in the base.
John Shull 45:06
I don't know where you're going with that. I'm just like, I have no idea where I was going with this one. But
Nick VinZant 45:13
we're gonna get upset about getting carded and then go home and buy a wrestling pay per view. Like I'm an adult. Time to get this wrestling pay per view.
John Shull 45:20
Hey, just so you know, wrestling is a global thing. It's just not you know, a lot of a lot of us out there, so be careful. They man, your thing. We've had a professional wrestler on the podcast.
Nick VinZant 45:32
Isn't he? Good? Now? You got and I thought he was doing really well.
John Shull 45:36
He was he he's still around.
Nick VinZant 45:40
He was okay. Anyways,
John Shull 45:42
would you rather wrestle an alligator? Or a gorilla? Probably a gator, right? Yeah.
Nick VinZant 45:50
Because they don't have a hands, right? Like, I can probably do better against a alligator because I could just get on top of it. Like, if I just held on what's it gonna do again on a gorilla has arms and hands is gonna tear you apart. But
John Shull 46:05
I feel like if the gator gets you, you have a less chance of doing anything than if a gorilla is in the same position. Like I feel like, I feel like a gators gonna wrap you up and drown you as well. At least, you know, a girl is probably gonna smash you're facing, but at least for a half second, you may have a better chance of trying to escape. I
Nick VinZant 46:27
don't Yeah, but I think that the gator has less of a chance of getting you. Maybe you have a point in that regard. I think it's completely over if either one of them gets a hold of you. But I think you have a better chance of like evading the gator for longer. The gorilla is just going to absolutely wreck you,
John Shull 46:44
man. It's yeah, like I said, I don't know where any of these have have come from. But good ideas come in the middle of just thinking
Nick VinZant 46:55
oh, yeah, that's amazing. If you just stop and let your brain run for a couple of seconds. Like how many thoughts are just ping pong and around? Oh, man, you don't know what's gonna happen?
John Shull 47:03
Which we never do, right? Like we just never. We never do. I
Nick VinZant 47:08
do every Friday and Saturday night. Take a bunch of animals and just stare into the night and think about thoughts
John Shull 47:17
engage in those activities. All right, last last one here. It's more of a question than a than a banger. But what kind of Christmas tree do you have? You'd go cut one down. Do you have a fake one?
Nick VinZant 47:29
I have a fake one. Right? fake trees and titties are my favorite things. Why get the real one when the original when the fake ones can be superior? That's so much less. That's so much easier. I don't have to go pick it out. I don't have to worry about is this going to be a good one? I don't have to worry about how much it's going to cost getting rid of it. Just go get the fake tree and be done with it. And if you want the scent, then buy a candle I'm sure you've got many recommendations of candles that smell like trees.
John Shull 48:06
I mean we can start if you want there's even a pine tree one.
Nick VinZant 48:10
Can you just give us a one and not go down the road of recommendations just give us a good tree scented candle.
John Shull 48:17
A good tree said to Canada Well, first one that comes to my mind. It's I've looked at the name pine star I think it's called Pine star by Yankee Candle. It's just it's just amazing. And it just smells like pure pine. However, if you have a fake tree I am going to recommend they actually sell like things that you can put in the tree. That will give it an aroma of being in smelling like an actual tree.
Nick VinZant 48:47
Okay, what do you got? Do you go buy a real tree every year carry that damn thing home?
John Shull 48:53
I used to and then the pandemic happened and we bought a fake tree. And that's one of the good things that actually came out of the pandemic for me is I learned how much of an idiot I was forever wanting a real tree.
Nick VinZant 49:06
Yeah, I mean, a fake tree is way easier. I could care less about a real tree like Is it real? Is it fake? It's a tree that way.
John Shull 49:14
Don't Yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, I get it like it's all part of the of the ship but you know, there's no needles that drop it's easy to take up. It's easy to put down. It's yeah, it's just it's easier.
Nick VinZant 49:28
I think it's cheaper to I'd much rather have a fake tree
John Shull 49:31
because you're gonna make fun of me for this but when we did do it, we used to go to a tree farm and cut down the tree. So there was funny thing there was multiple other men like my end women like like myself and others who would physically cut trees down and by the time you're done cutting a tree down. I didn't give a shit how big it was. So let's just get it in the wagon to get back to the car. I
Nick VinZant 49:53
can't actually imagine you cutting down a tree. Did you use an axe or saw
John Shull 49:58
a saw? It's actually a hand I saw it that it's actually it's not bad. You always have that one. That one, you know, over overzealous person who brings a chainsaw.
Nick VinZant 50:09
You don't really need a chainsaw to cut down. It's cool one inch tree. No, but anyway, you should have used an axe. The only appropriate way to cut down a tree is with an axe, because that's how a man does it. I don't care what else you're doing, it should be done with an axe with and quite frankly, the forearms need to be shown. That would be my rule. If I was ever like running a lumberjack place or a tree place they'll ever look everybody cuts down the tree with an axe. And you've got to roll up your sleeves because if you don't, you're not doing it correctly.
John Shull 50:41
All of your lumberjacks that have their forearm showing while sweat and got to
Nick VinZant 50:44
have your forearm shown, if you don't have forearm showing, and you're using it not using an axe, you're not cutting down a tree. It's not the right way to do
John Shull 50:50
it. Don't know what kind of business you're gonna be running there. But sounds like you're gonna have a lot of applicants. So good luck. Clearly.
Nick VinZant 50:56
You've never seen the Brawny man.
John Shull 50:59
Yes, I think so. Yeah, I have terrible reference. But yes, I have. Ah,
Nick VinZant 51:04
who do you think would win in a fight between Ms for Who do you think would win in a fight between the brawny guy and Mr. Clean? Like which one of those guys do you think can handle his business better?
John Shull 51:15
Well, I mean, I remember Mr. Clean smiling a lot. So on basis of that alone, he seems way too happy. So I'm gonna go with Mr. Brown. You
Nick VinZant 51:24
don't think that he has like he does. He's not aggressive enough. Do you think Mr. Clean is too much of a nice guy. Yeah,
John Shull 51:29
he reminds me of a former coworker of ours. Oh,
Nick VinZant 51:33
yeah, he does. Actually, now that I think about it. I think Mr. Clean would actually win. I think the brawny guy puts on a good show, but I think Mr. Clean is the guy who can get down to business when he needs to.
John Shull 51:44
I mean, did they was there ever a celebrity deathmatch, that that pitted them against each other? There has to be someone that did this. There
Nick VinZant 51:51
has to be I still think Mr. Clean would win. I think he can take out the brawny guy. Okay, do you have any other bangers? Any other
John Shull 52:00
thoughts? No, no, that's, that's it. We learned enough about you from this episode. Okay,
Nick VinZant 52:04
so our top five is top five winter animals. What's your number five.
John Shull 52:09
So my number five I'm getting I don't even want to put them on the list. Because I detest these animals. But they have to be if you're talking about winter, ask animals. They have to be on the list. And that's penguins.
Nick VinZant 52:23
Oh, penguins should be much higher on there. I paid her fantastic winter him.
John Shull 52:28
I agree. But I don't like them for whatever reason, and they're lucky to get on my top five.
Nick VinZant 52:35
Why do you have such a problem with penguins?
John Shull 52:37
I spent they're overrated animal. They're like dolphins to me. Like they're just overrated animals that have been propelled to the top of the animal food chain by us humans. And I just you know, I just don't get it.
Nick VinZant 52:49
They're cute and they walk funny. I agree with you about dolphins though. I don't trust those. I don't trust dolphin.
John Shull 52:56
I mean, super obese people waddle and we don't put them in a zoo and laugh at them while
Nick VinZant 53:02
they have suits on. Do they look like they have a tuxedo on? And then maybe we would?
John Shull 53:07
Do they eat raw fish and make weird noises. My
Nick VinZant 53:10
number five is a walrus. I don't think that walrus is good enough credit as an animal. They're kind of sweet.
John Shull 53:17
They're huge. Man. They are gigantic. I didn't have to be alone get there like 1000 pound animals like they are large creatures.
Nick VinZant 53:24
The problem is, is that I think that people get seals, sea lions and walrus is all kind of mixed up slightly and you think that the walrus isn't that much bigger and then you see a walrus and you're like, holy crap.
John Shull 53:35
That's funny. You mentioned that that's my number four is a seal
Nick VinZant 53:41
Oh, I don't know how is that a winner animal?
John Shull 53:47
Oh, they my only basis for putting them as a winner animal is because they're you know, every time you see a documentary about you know, the North Pole, or the South Pole or somewhere where it's cold and they only show orcas feeding and the cold waters are always going after seals. So
Nick VinZant 54:05
I would never consider a seal to be a winter Animal Man. They very well it to be exact opposite to be honest. Not
John Shull 54:12
be. But that's my perception of them.
Nick VinZant 54:15
My number four is a reindeer.
John Shull 54:18
See I left off render once again. I feel like they're friggin overrated. Man. Overrated animals.
Nick VinZant 54:25
If you had a bunch of like deer, like animals lined up like an elk or moose, a deer and a reindeer, could you actually pick them out and be like, No, that's a reindeer not an owl.
John Shull 54:37
The moose I think I could only because by the way, I feel like I'm gonna get hammered on social media for the seal number four. And I've been pretty impressed with the amount of people commenting. So bring it I guess. But regardless, I'm saying that to say this. I believe moose are way bigger than both of those species. That's how I think you'd be able to know the difference. I
Nick VinZant 55:05
couldn't tell the difference between a reindeer and a caribou. I don't know if they're actually even a different thing. I don't know if I can tell the difference between a rainbow caribou and an elk. But I can tell the difference between deer and moose is gigantic. I've seen a moose in like real life. And it's like, whoa, Just get the hell away from that thing.
Unknown Speaker 55:24
That thing's pissed.
Nick VinZant 55:26
They're mean animals. They're very mean animals. They'll follow you man. Don't mess with a moose, though people are worried about bears, but you should really be worried about moose.
John Shull 55:37
Alright, right. Well, my number three. Not a transition from that properly. I have an orca as my number three.
Nick VinZant 55:46
I don't know really what your classification of winter animals is to be honest with you. I think that you just thought of place the animals that live in cold places. And we're like, I guess that counts. Just
John Shull 55:57
go to bed because I'm gonna get butchered on this. But I don't know for all I mean, I know that you know, orcas. They're like a Pacific Northwest animal and they go into the Atlantic Ocean down near Antarctica. They're in cold water. Which all waters gold.
Nick VinZant 56:13
You know, Antarctica is South Right? Like yeah,
John Shull 56:16
when I say North I meant I meant that they go south. Sorry. Yeah, that's towards
Nick VinZant 56:20
Antarctica. But yeah, Arctic. I still get confused. Let's just say my number three is a real winter animal a Snow Owl. Not only do I think a snow animal is a sweet winter animal, but I think it's probably the it's probably one of my bits. My favorite owl easily.
John Shull 56:41
Once again. I was are overrated.
Nick VinZant 56:45
I don't have a problem. I mean, I've got Do you think what do you think is more sick of hearing people make noises at it? A owl or a wolf? Woof.
John Shull 56:56
That's a great question. I feel like I was don't give a shit. I don't know why but when you look at an owl they just look like they don't give a shit what you're thinking.
Nick VinZant 57:05
Yeah, they seem like they're probably smarter and that they don't really care too much of they're like all these idiots. But a wolf seems like they probably get a little bit annoyed. I've been this places where the like a zoo with a wolf and they specifically but like, Don't howl at the wolves. Alright,
John Shull 57:21
my number two is a moose.
Nick VinZant 57:25
Okay, okay. Moose is respectable. I don't know again. I'm not sure what qualifies. Is it a winter animal? But that's, that's fine. But I think he just picked animals like what is it big and lives nor pick it?
Unknown Speaker 57:42
Yeah, I mean, why not?
Nick VinZant 57:43
I mean, all it's really none of this really makes any sense. If you think about it. It's not like all these animals are aren't alive during the summer. She's kind of like we just decided like that's a winner animal. i My number two is a penguin specifically an emperor penguin. I think of that as a winter animal.
John Shull 58:01
Yeah, I mean, like overrated. I don't know how I mean, those are the only good penguin was Danny DeVito
Nick VinZant 58:10
he was a good penguin. Right like he was born to play that is like who's gonna be the penguin like well, Danny DeVito everybody they've as soon as that roll was announced that he just was like, Well, I'm gonna be that guy. So
John Shull 58:24
what am I Oscar now?
Nick VinZant 58:25
Did he win an Oscar for no no it terrible Oh, because he didn't deserve it. I don't think not enough credit goes to actors who played like roles that we'd like I think we have the same number
John Shull 58:37
one you you have to there really is only one dominant winter animal and that is the polar bear. Polar
Nick VinZant 58:44
Bear. I 100% agree that the polar bear is the dominant winter animal because not only do I think about it and associated with winter, but I also think of it as like the North Pole. Those Coca Cola commercials it's the dominant winner
John Shull 58:56
and you know it's gigantic. It has snow that are further that reflects what it lives in the snow. I mean, come on man. What
Nick VinZant 59:07
What color is a polar bears for?
John Shull 59:11
This is a trick question. My first initial reaction is to say white or gray but I'm guessing it's gonna be like brown or something.
Nick VinZant 59:24
A polar bear skin is actually black and the polar bears furs also translucent. Wow. So it has clear fur. Oh, it does look black. That's kind of crazy.
John Shull 59:41
Everyone listening to this airs. Now googling what a polar bear looks like.
Nick VinZant 59:45
The hair of a polar bear appears white because airspaces in each hair scatter light of all colors. And it is mostly around the color white so that's why it appears to be white but the pair is actually translucent, which is It's crazy to think about. Okay, what's your honorable mention? You haven't even mentioned
John Shull 1:00:04
other animals. So I have an Arctic hair. Bunny. Okay, okay. Okay. Arctic Fox.
Nick VinZant 1:00:13
Okay, um, yeah, the animals with the word Arctic in front of it. She just decided
John Shull 1:00:17
I was actually just trying to think of of one but I can't
Nick VinZant 1:00:21
think of another one. Yeah, I
John Shull 1:00:23
don't think I can think of another one. Arctic owl an Arctic owl. Yes. But not the kind of owl that you decided to put on this. Yeah, I mean, not Not much. Not many others. Not really.
Nick VinZant 1:00:39
Okay, we got an Arctic hair and arctic fox. That's it. Oh, an Arctic turn and Arctic woolly bear and Arctic Wolf. Okay, that's probably enough. Arctic, the Arctic grouse. You know what animal I would put in there that I'm just now looking at is the musk ox like that. Okay, gas ox with a bunch of hair. That looks pretty sweet Dara buffalo. It's not a buffalo to musk ox. It's a very different thing. I'm not getting into this whole debate with you about the buffalo. For people who aren't familiar with it. John thinks that he can outrun a buffalo which buffalo can run at 40 miles an hour. I doesn't make any sense to anyone why he thinks that he can outrun something. He's just math again. He's
John Shull 1:01:25
gonna cut me off before I finish this. But it was a it was a bet or want to be bet that I could I think I said I could finish a 40 with a 10 yard head start standing still
Nick VinZant 1:01:39
before a Muslim No you couldn't and then part about the Head Start with something that you just now added in there because you're trying to cover up for it and make it easier slightly realizing that there's absolutely no chance I don't think that you could run 40 yards to be honest with you. So you're crazy. I don't think that you get I don't think that you could Sprint 40 yards right now without hurting yourself. You could go outside dead sprint 40 yards right now and not pull a muscle. Yep, I don't I or trip or fall down? I don't agree with that at all do though.
John Shull 1:02:07
I'm only in my mid 30s. If any, if any mid 30 person no matter. Your conditioner shape, can't sprint for eight seconds. Then you got other issues.
Nick VinZant 1:02:17
I actually know very few people who are in their mid 30s who do not regularly who don't play professional sports that could run right now dead sprint and not hurt themselves.
John Shull 1:02:33
I mean, obviously I do a quick warm up like I would do a stretch so I don't tear a hamstring like I did one time.
Nick VinZant 1:02:39
Exactly. They don't even need to get hit right yeah, I don't need to I won't get hurt. I won't get hurt. I would I have been hurt doing the exact same thing and I won't get hurt. Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. It really does help us out and let us know what you think are some of the best winter animal. There really doesn't seem to be any classification or qualifications for the winter animals that we chose. It's basically entirely subjective but I do think that polar bear is the best winter animal. I don't know about some of John's choices. I wouldn't consider that consider them to be winter animals but whatever.
In the world of Financial Domination you have to pay to serve. And for Dominatrix Ruby Enraylls people are willing to pay big. Go inside the world of Financial Domination as we talk fin dom experiences, humiliation and money management. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Worst Car Sounds.
Ruby Enraylls: 01:20
Pointless: 31:25
Top 5: 51:40
Nick VinZant 0:05
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, financial domination, and car sounds,
Ruby Enraylls 0:14
everyone has a different style. I'm less of a demanding type dominatrix and more of a like you want to do this for me because of XYZ. And I would describe most of the like financial domination scenes as less like planned than most other scenes and more like sexy harassment 2020 We got real weird, let me tell you, people were really bored in 2020 and 2021. I want to
Nick VinZant 0:51
thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance to subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest is a dominatrix who specializes in a certain kind of domination. This is Financial dominatrix Ruby on Rails. What is financial domination?
Ruby Enraylls 1:22
I sort of depends on who you ask. But it's dominating someone financially. Like it's either taking direct control of their finances, or having them buy you shit.
Nick VinZant 1:35
Like how much money are we talking? I guess
Ruby Enraylls 1:37
some people only spend like $5 at a time some people spend 1000s, what would
Nick VinZant 1:45
you say would kind of be the average, like if you looked at your average client, okay, they're gonna probably be spending this much. Financial
Ruby Enraylls 1:51
domination is not really like charging, if that makes sense. Because the whole gravitas behind it is that you are not charging for a service somebody is willingly giving you something, or you are engaging in some sort of like mental domination, where like, they feel forced is the wrong word. But they feel inclined to do something
Nick VinZant 2:26
for you. They're either giving it to you or like you're demanding
Ruby Enraylls 2:30
it, everyone has a different style. I am less of a demanding type dominatrix and more of a like you want to do this for me, because of XYZ. So what's the appeal? A lot of the people that I play with it's a rush to do it. I mean, if you've ever gone shopping and spent, you know a certain amount of money, it's like a rush. A lot of people have a shopping addiction. And for a lot of people, it's really humiliating to give a woman money for something they wouldn't, you know, ordinarily have, like I have people who give me money to have fun that they're not having.
Nick VinZant 3:17
Does it go along with other kinds of fetishes and kinks? Or is this kind of like no, this is usually they're just going to be into this or is this kind of come with like a whole bag, so to speak,
Ruby Enraylls 3:28
every single person is different. But in my personal experience, it tends to go with other kinks. Like humiliation is a really common one. So and that takes all sorts of different flavors like humiliation is just an umbrella. I would put I'm forced by in that category for spinning in
Nick VinZant 3:55
air. Yeah, yeah, like forced but not forced. Right?
Ruby Enraylls 3:59
Yeah, like Oh, Mistress forced me to do this thing I'm asking you to make me do. And like Kolding is often in that feminization. Sometimes, you know, quote, unquote, blackmail?
Nick VinZant 4:15
So is it? Is it sexual?
Ruby Enraylls 4:17
That's directly No.
Nick VinZant 4:19
So how does this kind of ultimately work to where someone is doing their thing, so to speak?
Ruby Enraylls 4:26
Well, a lot of BDSM is like that, where it's very indirect, where like, you're not necessarily doing something with like, buy something I mean, something directly sexual with some one like in a traditional sense, like a vanilla sense. And by that, I mean like, you know, intercourse that kind of deal. Like you may be doing something that is completely unrelated and unrecognizable on the surface to someone who's vanilla as sexual at all. You're like, why would you give a woman money? and find that hot, I don't understand why would you spend more money than is, you know, in your budget? That makes no sense. But I think what thin subs find hot about that is that it wasn't necessarily something they planned on doing, it wasn't necessarily something they, quote unquote wanted to do at the beginning. They felt like they had no control over the situation they felt, you know, quote, unquote, manipulated into it. And that is the part that they find sexy. And sometimes they feel like lesser than the woman, but they look up to her, if that makes sense. So, and in the end of that act, or like, in the end of like, you know, and interaction, which sometimes can go on for like weeks, right? Um, then somewhere in the middle of that they might do
Nick VinZant 6:06
their thing. Let's refer to it as doing. Um,
Ruby Enraylls 6:09
yeah, do their thing is good. I like so that would be the
Nick VinZant 6:12
like, what I kind of don't quite understand is like, okay, so if they're doing their thing, like, what are they doing their thing to the act of like giving you 10 $10 or something like that, like, do it to that, or they're doing it to the idea that they were, they're doing it to you? Like, what are they doing their thing, too, I guess, would be the question of
Ruby Enraylls 6:34
the whole thing. Like the, like, it's the idea. They're doing their thing, too. I like how I'm just like,
Nick VinZant 6:44
visual visual aid. Oh, yeah.
Ruby Enraylls 6:47
Oh, yeah. Someone's gonna do their thing to that later. Um, because there are tons of videos of that of women just doing this and saying, you are going to give me X amount of money for because I exist, and you want to make me happy. And that's a whole genre of porn, just by the by. And that is a thing that people do their thing too. But I some of the people that I play with, like to be humiliated, like that, but what I? So to answer your question, what they're doing, you're saying to lots of different things,
Nick VinZant 7:27
lots of different things, but the whole thing at the same time, like it's all an experience that kind of comes along with it,
Ruby Enraylls 7:34
I think it's being humiliated. D, would
Nick VinZant 7:36
you say that kind of financial domination is fundamentally different than other kinds of domination?
Ruby Enraylls 7:41
Not necessarily, I think it's just more popular because a lot of, you know, more popular for women to try to get into. Because they saw it as like, oh, it's an opportunity for me to just make a social media account, posted pictures of myself, and then men will give me money. But it's much more nuanced than that. And I mean, like, if you just insulted guy on the internet, and say, you know, give me you know, money for my Starbucks, like it might happen. But financial domination is not as common. A fetish for people to have as people think the thing that makes it sometimes different is that oftentimes people will go too far with it. And then it will end up being sort of a destructive thing, where like, they will get themselves in trouble, like spending significantly too much. But that ends up also being a fetish, right, like toeing the line of like, Is this actually a life problem? For me?
Nick VinZant 8:51
How do you kind of, I guess, be responsible in that sense of like, okay, this person wants to give me $250, but they really can't afford it. Like, how do you kind of make sure that you're not taking like taking real advantage of somebody like, Well,
Ruby Enraylls 9:07
I think, in some cases, it's impossible to know, unless you really know the person. And if you're just having a one off interaction with someone online, it's really difficult to know. Right? And that is kind of a matter of personal responsibility. Yours and theirs, right? Like if somebody is going around on wine interacting with any attractive woman, and saying, like, please, Mistress, let me give you $200 I'm just going to find someone who's going to take it right. Yeah. So like and the way that I interact with people like I try to not be I try to not be pushy and less like it's a fun interaction and at the The end of the day, if someone is really like, no hard stop, like, I just don't care, I don't care. I mean, like, I'm not going to force somebody truly, to do something that is bad for them.
Nick VinZant 10:09
Can you kind of get a sense of somebody's like, Hey, man, this might be their last 500 bucks or something like that? Can you kind of get a sense of that?
Ruby Enraylls 10:18
Not from a one off interaction, right? Like, in some cases, certainly. Yes. But like that's like, you know them face to face, right? Like, how can you tell over the internet? Like from like a random Twitter account? There's no way to know, where do
Nick VinZant 10:35
you kind of like are most of your clients then? Is it a virtual thing? Or is it in person? When you look at the financial domination?
Ruby Enraylls 10:43
Most financial domination stuff is online. So there's no way to know for sure. If
Nick VinZant 10:48
we were to kind of like look at a normal or not normal, but your average kind of client interaction and if we need to, like pretend I'm the client or whatever, like, how does this usually go about they contact you? What kind of how does this work? So
Ruby Enraylls 11:01
some terminology, just basic, BDSM terminology, and a scene, the person who's doing the things is usually called the top and the person who's having the things done to him is usually called the bottom. A bottom is not necessarily a submissive, and the top is not necessarily dominant. In my case, I trend towards dominant in pretty much everything. But anyway, that aside, I'm typically like, when I engage in financial domination scenes, they are like, kind of playful. Like, I will poke at some, like, fetish that someone has, like, let's say, someone, like, has a fetish for like, cuckolding, right? Um, I'll make some joke about like, oh, it would be so terrible, if like, you paid for me to go out on a date with my girlfriend. Like, it'd be awful if you did that, like. I can just imagine all the fun things we might do. You'd be enabling us to do that. And depending on how they engage with me, um, I'll take it in a different route. Like, if they engage with that line of Atlanta thoughts, then I'll continue with it. And if they're just like, No, that is not what I'm into today, like, then all sorts of try, you know, nipping away at something else. And I would describe most of the, like financial domination scenes as less like planned than most other scenes and more like, sexy harassment. Which is, I think what a lot of people like about them is that it is very unexpected, kind of, like when you get like a hot picture sent to you from someone that you're dating. It's
Nick VinZant 13:22
less kind of a thing that like, we're going to do this between like 10 and 11 o'clock and more kind of a thing. Like, I'm going to send you a message randomly throughout the day. Be like, pretty sure this coffee or something like that kind of along those lines. Yeah.
Ruby Enraylls 13:35
Yeah. And I'm less like, pay for this coffee kind of girl and more, like, I'm bored. I'm gonna harass you and see if he'll buy my girlfriend a pair of shoes.
Nick VinZant 13:45
And then and then they'll usually like that's the thing then Right? Then they'll go ahead? How long will these kind of if you were to take like an interaction with somebody from kind of start to beginning of that interaction? Are we talking like, one message to message three message? They're done? Are we like, do these things go on for a while? Or like, what's the time frame?
Ruby Enraylls 14:07
Every one is different. Sometimes it'll be like, instantaneous, like, here, you got Mr. So bought the shoes. Or, like, sometimes I'll have to chip away at it. And it'll be like, a couple of days. You know? And like, I don't mean like constant a couple of days. I mean, like, I'll send them a message every now and again. But it's usually like not that many by my standards. So And I suspect that like if I really, truly cared and like was deeply invested in it if I like did more of the leg video call and phone call nature, it would be way less interaction but I find the messaging back and forth and likes Actually harassment thing to be very entertaining. Dee
Nick VinZant 15:03
Dee, do you personally kind of enjoy it from a sexual aspect? Like, is this something that you're into for lack of a better phrase? Or is it like, this is something that I do, and I'm good at?
Ruby Enraylls 15:16
I mean, it's both. That's how I view all the domination stuff is like it is sexy amusement. So I like when people do things for me. And like, one thing that I particularly like, is when people like, quote, unquote, get more than they asked for. So it falls into that bucket, even if it's like, I don't know, I really just only intended to buy you one coffee, and I bought you for
Nick VinZant 15:48
Oh, but okay, I'm just gonna ask you it. Like, did you ever do your thing? To this to like, the interactions that you have? Um,
Ruby Enraylls 16:03
yeah. I mean, I've done that to like, all sorts of different interactions. So with, like, things one wouldn't imagine, right? Like, just from a vanilla standpoint, you're like, why would you do that? And it's less like, the, for me, it's less about the Lego somebody gave me money or bought me a thing, because who cares? It's stuff, right? Um, and more about the like, Oh, you did that.
Nick VinZant 16:34
That's funny. I don't know what it says. But it says something like, I can't put my finger on exactly like the terminology of what it says. But like, Oh, I get what that kind of implies, right? Like, I get where that? It's, um, you feel powerful?
Ruby Enraylls 16:49
Yeah, it's having somebody wrapped around your little finger to the point of where they will bend over backwards. And, like, do something that they personally find really degrading, and is also expensive. So and that they then afterwards feel like regret for is fun. And hot. Right? So and like, if they're truly like, I really can't afford this after the fact. And like, I don't care, whatever. Have you ever had somebody asked for their money back? From financial domination? No. I mean, in general, no, I think the whole thing about the financial domination thing and people getting in over their head is very similar to the thing about submissives, who enjoy pain and who like feeling the bruise and the staying, and like showing off bruises, right? It's like a reminder of the experience, which is fascinating, and not really a thing I understood at the very beginning. Like, if I spend too much on like, that's a mistake. I'm not doing that again, like, and I feel regretful I don't feel shame about it. I just feel like an idiot.
Nick VinZant 18:03
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Sure. Is this in any way related to sugar dating?
Ruby Enraylls 18:08
Um, I don't think so. I think that some Sugar Babies like to view it as similar and I've seen in a lot of communities online, a lot of discussion of some transition over. But in my opinion, no, because it's not really financial domination, if you aren't really dominating somebody,
Nick VinZant 18:38
has anybody ever asked you to just take complete control of their finances? frequently?
Ruby Enraylls 18:42
Yes. That's interesting to see what people spend money on.
Nick VinZant 18:46
So like, go over there, go over their taxes and stuff. Like what are you doing when you get asked that?
Ruby Enraylls 18:53
Yeah, spreadsheets of expenses and stuff like that, and budgeting, honestly.
Nick VinZant 18:59
So what is that now? Is that like a sub genre of it? Is that called something different? Or is that no, that just falls under
Ruby Enraylls 19:06
that is a sub genre of financial domination. And I can't remember what it's called off the top of my head. But yeah, that is definitely like an established sub genre. With some people that is a lot of overhead.
Nick VinZant 19:21
What we will get in that kind of situation like what will you be doing you'll just you manage their finances entirely.
Ruby Enraylls 19:27
I like to set people up with a plan personally. Um, and usually I like to leave people in those situations where like, if they do happen to overspend on financial domination, they're not left like destitute. So I've put people in situations where like, they actually have like large amounts of savings afterwards that they're not allowed to touch. And
Nick VinZant 19:50
so you'd be like assigning you can spend this much on this this much on that, like, how does that kind of I
Ruby Enraylls 19:55
mean, like, you just help people make a realistic Budget, right? And help people plan things out. And like, it's also not that hard to look at how to consolidate debt, right? Like if someone has a whole bunch of credit cards, the interest rates on those are astronomical. So you can I mean, depending on what other options you have, you can consolidate those just directly through I mean, you could get a home equity line of credit. If you own a house, or a different type of loan from your bank, there's a bunch of different options. Oh,
Nick VinZant 20:37
it sounds. That's what's fascinating. To me. It sounds like you're doing like a really good job when you manage their finances.
Ruby Enraylls 20:43
Well, why? Why would I do a bad job? For someone that is serving me? That's stupid.
Nick VinZant 20:51
I guess I just kind of thought along the lines of like, okay, I'm gonna tell you what you can spend, I didn't think that you would be like telling them, Hey, invest in a 401 K or something like that?
Ruby Enraylls 21:01
Well, I do that too. Like, hey, you should open a savings account at like these places, because they have great rates, and great returns.
Nick VinZant 21:11
I find that so interesting. For some reason that like being a good accountant, I thought it would be more just like along the sexual lines of like, I'm going to manage your money. I
Ruby Enraylls 21:21
mean, personally, like someone is of no use to me. If they are like, destitute, they've, you know, ruined their job. Like, they have a huge amount of debt. And like, they can't keep up with payments on anything that's not useful to me. Like, they're way more useful to me if like they've sorted all that shit out. And they're free of everything, right? And they have like, a large amount of savings if they ever happened to make a frickin mistake. Like, right, civility is totally priceless.
Nick VinZant 21:53
Ain't that the truth? I think the reason that I had the reaction to it is because one of the first people we interviewed on the podcast was a dominatrix. And she had the best tax advice. And she actually I use her accountant. I assume you'd like you can spend 500 on food this month or whatever, not like, Hey, you got to really, you got to diversify your bonds or something like that?
Ruby Enraylls 22:16
Yeah. Well, I mean, I use either Vanguard, or, Oh, God was the other one. I use Wealthfront, or fidelity. Fidelity does not charge fees. I don't use the apps because they are like the apps like Robin Hood. Um, because in case anything happens to be unstable, they kind of upset the market, if that makes sense. Like your trades won't necessarily go through. I know a lot of people in finance and a lot of people in tech. So
Nick VinZant 22:55
yeah, what is your most frequent request?
Ruby Enraylls 22:59
My most frequent request is misters, to whatever he wants to do. whatever pleases you is, honestly my most frequent requests at this point in time, I used to get like when I was younger, I used to get very hyper specific requests about like, oh, I have this like XYZ fantasy and like, I don't know, a lot of my requests are, like, let's have a good time together. Or like, I don't know, sometimes I get requests of like people wanting to learn something new. So I get tends to fall into one of those two buckets.
Nick VinZant 23:36
Is there one that you would stand that stands out to you or like an experience in the financial domination aspect that you would say that was either my most interesting or one that kind of jumps out at me like I still remember this interaction with this person.
Ruby Enraylls 23:50
Trying to think back to like 2020 because 2020 was funny 2020 We got real weird let me tell you, people were really bored in 2020 and 2021. Cuz the market again was like up and people were just like wasting money on fire. So I ended up with a lot of things. Like I recently discovered that like part of my Amazon wishlist, I didn't set the settings right. So I kept getting multiples of everything. So I have like, more Halloween costumes than a spirit Halloween. Like, way more like one person bought everything that was on there. And then there were multiples of everything else. So like, it's insane. I mean, I like have someone who several people actually who like now have large amounts of savings as a result
Nick VinZant 24:58
of of Utah. taking over their accounts. Yeah, how much? Like how much of money? Have you saved them? Do you think if you had to put a number on it?
Ruby Enraylls 25:08
Um, 10s of 1000s. It
Nick VinZant 25:10
kind of seems like people should just do this from a business standpoint. This isn't my thing, but I'm starting to be like, do you want to? Just like, it seems like you're doing a good job. I'm most amount of money somebody's ever given you at one time?
Ruby Enraylls 25:29
Ah, oops. Not sure I want to say that on.
Nick VinZant 25:36
Can you say? Three figures? Four figures? Five figures? Six, seven. Can you put a figure on? Definitely
Ruby Enraylls 25:45
not seven? I don't think six either.
Nick VinZant 25:49
What would you say? Like what? What's the most frequent denomination? Are we talking like? Under 100? Over 100? What are people? Definitely
Ruby Enraylls 25:57
over 100. Like for financial domination is usually get least for me over five.
Nick VinZant 26:05
Are women interested in this?
Ruby Enraylls 26:08
Oh, yeah, surprisingly, I mean, women are interested in everything. Right? Like anything a man is interested in a woman is interested in too. Like, we just, that was not a thing I thought originally, and then I have a friend with a very strong foot fetish. Which like, was kind of eye opening to me when I first interacted with her at a party. But that made me ruminate a bit on, um, you know, women having kinks. But do you have?
Nick VinZant 26:43
Do you have clients? Who are women?
Ruby Enraylls 26:47
I have a lot of clients that are women.
Nick VinZant 26:49
If you had to put a percentage on it, are we talking like 70%? Men? 30%? Women? 6040? What do you think it would be?
Ruby Enraylls 26:55
I'd say it's probably more like 9010.
Nick VinZant 26:59
That's still more than I would have thought it would be? Yeah,
Ruby Enraylls 27:03
but it definitely comes in waves. Where like, I'll go a bit without seeing women and then like my entire schedule women, what
Nick VinZant 27:12
would you say make someone a good financial dominatrix?
Ruby Enraylls 27:16
Ah. I mean, I think what makes anyone a good dominatrix actually is having compassion. And being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes from a standpoint of like, understanding of what exactly you are asking of someone, and exactly what the kink is, right. So like, it's, again, it's not as simple as like, Oh, he's just gonna give me money. And it's not as simple as like, I'm just going to make him more panties. So there's a bit of complexity to
Nick VinZant 27:56
everything. Um, that's pretty much all the questions that we have. Is there anything that you kind of think that we missed or anything like that? Right? Like, when somebody talks about like, Okay, do they usually want it combined with something else? Like, will you usually say to somebody, you need to send me $250 And then put on women's underwear? Or is it more just kind of confined to like, send me $250? So I can go out to eat or something like that? Like, do you come out? All depends on the person? Like,
Ruby Enraylls 28:22
yeah, it all depends, like, sometimes it's just standalone. But in that instance, it will be standalone. And sometimes you can, can or do add an element of humiliation into it. Right? And that humiliation can be like, honestly, anything.
Nick VinZant 28:51
Are these people that are doing this, like, are they? They single? Are they usually in a relationship with somebody else? Like do you get the sense that these are men with girlfriends, women with girlfriends, etc. I
Ruby Enraylls 29:04
think most of the people that I interact with tends to be at least in like the financial domination situation. are single. It does get a little bit weird when they're in relationships, honestly. And some people some dominatrixes take it in the direction of like, Oh, I'm so much hotter than your wife blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like I also think that's derogatory towards women and I'm pretty anti anything that's derogatory towards women. So yeah,
Nick VinZant 29:44
that kind of gets
Ruby Enraylls 29:45
into that's a no no for me it gets into some and that's not a no no for me like oh my God, how could you ever but like I just don't like saying things that are mean towards other women because I think that we Should just sort of keep it towards being mean to people who are doing things for us who like it when we're mean to them not to just everyone. And also like, Why drag somebody into this? Who did not fucking consent to it like, yeah, it's just, it's just enabling bad behavior. Yeah, I had somebody asked me once, to, like, encourage him to like jack off into his wife's coffee without, like, her permission, and I was like, absolute fucking Lully not. Um,
Nick VinZant 30:35
that's pretty much all the questions that we have is like, if people want to learn more about this, if they're interested in being a client, what should they do that kind of stuff. Um,
Ruby Enraylls 30:45
my website is Ruby loves you.com. And beware of catfish pretending to be me on basically any website. I
Nick VinZant 30:55
want to thank Ruby's so much for joining us if you want to connect with her, we have linked to her on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on Tik Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included her information in the episode description. The YouTube version of this interview will be live on November 16, at 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now, let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of this show. When you left school, do you think that you were ready for real life? Do
John Shull 31:31
I think I could have made it? Yes. Do I think I was ready when I left high school? Absolutely not. And it's kind of a bigger rant for me. However, I don't think they teach common sense. And things you need to know in high school that way for a person graduating high school just to be able to get right out. And in, you know, join the world. I
Nick VinZant 31:54
think that you learn how things are supposed to be I don't think that you learn how things actually are. Nobody like tells you like, look, no, this is how this really works.
John Shull 32:05
Nobody you know, you don't take a cooking class, I don't think anymore, you should be able know how to manage bills and money. The difference between credit and debit and in percentages.
Nick VinZant 32:18
I think though, that honestly, those kinds of things are things that people tried to teach you. You just weren't ever in an age myself included, to pay any attention to it. Because you had plenty of opportunities to learn those things, right? Like you could have been with your parents and learn how to cook. Or if you ask them, like how do you balance a checkbook? I think that you had the opportunity to learn those things. You just didn't do it. I
John Shull 32:39
mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'm sure something was said by my economics teacher about aprs and financing, and of course, right? You're, you're a young person, you're just like, oh, that doesn't matter, and then come to find out it does,
Nick VinZant 32:52
right, you're never able to listen to the things that you're supposed to be paying attention to. It's only like 10 years later that you realize like, oh, I should have probably learned that. I think the biggest thing that I kind of wasn't prepared for was, I had always thought that okay, the people older than you are going to know what they're talking about, like your managers are going to know what they're doing hard work is going to get you where you you want to go. And like none of those things were true. Like nobody ever told you the truth that like, look, you're going to be surrounded by people who are in positions of authority, but they're actually idiots. And all this hard work of the American dream, kind of not really true.
John Shull 33:31
And I don't want people to think that we're being hard or you know, or like just having a grim outlook. But it's absolutely true that a lot of times your bosses at least to start out with when you're a younger person and impressionable probably aren't going to know as much as you think they do or give you the advice that you think they should give you. But part of that, to me is a finding yourself, right. However, I think that's different than being in school, graduating, and trying to go into the real world. I've always haven't gone through a four year college. I'm not sure what college really does, to be honest with you. Yeah, it kind of tells you maybe what you're interested in. But I feel like most four year universities, you can do the same thing, and be done in two years and start your career.
Nick VinZant 34:23
College I think is essentially a personal reference without a person behind it. It's a piece of paper that says you can be trained to do a job. That's That's what college ultimately is at the end of it. I don't think it's for most professions. I don't think it's about learning how to do the actual ins and outs of anything. I think it's about saying, Hey, you now have a piece of paper that says you can be trained how to do another job.
John Shull 34:47
Here you go $85,000 Later, or I don't even know what college costs for four years and probably
Nick VinZant 34:53
$100,000 piece of paper that says yes, I can be trained. It's essentially somebody signing off on you. That's really all College is someone who's signing off on you saying this person has some level of intelligence, they can take a task and they can complete it. That's all college is. It's not about learning anything.
John Shull 35:12
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's fair to say. I still think that most colleges are money grabs, and it should not cost $150,000 to become a doctor. But what do I know? Well, yeah,
Nick VinZant 35:28
man that's like that's, that's a whole political rant, we can go on for days, right? Like you set up a system in a certain way. If the whole the system is set up to make as much money as possible, everybody's going to try to make as much money as possible,
John Shull 35:39
you know, it'd be a lot more fun is if the Hunger Games were real. And they put like, 20 Aspiring doctors in a in an arena. And we're like, the last one standing gets an automatic, you know, degree, you don't even have to go to school.
Nick VinZant 35:54
I think that's a terrible idea. Because then you're going to be operated on by a doctor who's just the toughest person there. That's a terrible idea. That's one of the worst. No, it's terrible. Like, if you want to apply that to another profession, no, any I want somebody who knows what they're doing doing just about anything. I don't ever want some idiot doing something fine. Let's
John Shull 36:15
stick 20 bank tellers in an arena, then? Also,
Nick VinZant 36:19
no, now you're messing with my money. I want somebody who knows what they're doing. This whole idea is a terrible way to do things.
John Shull 36:26
But it would be fun, right? It'd be entertaining. And
Nick VinZant 36:30
well, yeah, but can we just do it with people who don't need to do fundamental aspects of societal things?
John Shull 36:36
People don't have to die like we can just Taser them or I don't care
Nick VinZant 36:39
about them living or dying. I don't want them handling my taxes.
John Shull 36:44
Here's a follow up question for you. So if there was any profession that you think requires school, or coming right out of high school and having known a certain skill set? Would it be somebody in the financial industry? No,
Nick VinZant 36:58
I think that that's all just a bunch of people essentially legalized gambling. I don't think that anybody in the financial industry really knows what they're doing, like picking stocks. I think that's basically just gambling. But I think that you have to have people who know what they're doing, whether that's like a doctor, or a carpenter, right. Like you got, you'd have people need to know how they're what they're working on.
John Shull 37:20
Yeah, I mean, once again, anyone can hammer a nail into the floor, but
Nick VinZant 37:25
that's not fucking true. I couldn't, I couldn't build anything. I couldn't build a damn thing. I have no skills whatsoever. I
John Shull 37:32
mean, listen, I'm not the most skilled person. But I feel like if that was my only job was to learn how to do stuff like that, then maybe, maybe I could do it.
Nick VinZant 37:41
My grandpa is used to say work with your brain or your back. pick which one you want to do?
John Shull 37:48
Oh, that's actually great. I thought about that. For our second time. I was trying to think of some funny to say, but that's actually
Nick VinZant 37:54
it's a really great saying. And it's not one of those things where like, you make it up, it's you're saying, but you just attribute it to your grandpa, because then people will listen to you like, that's what he really used to said, like, decide early if you want to work with your brain or your back. There's no shame in either one, man. Everybody's got to, like some of the most important jobs in society are some of the blue collar jobs, right? Like you think plumbing ain't important until you flood your house.
John Shull 38:18
You got shit coming out of a valve somewhere that you don't know why that's happening. Suddenly,
Nick VinZant 38:21
the plumber is the smartest man in the world. You got to have a guy. Everybody needs to have a guy. It's
John Shull 38:27
a whole nother rant. But I've never understood why we seem to demean like that, like certain jobs like a plumber, right? Like, it's always the same picture that they always put out as this big oversized person with their ass crack hanging out, like trying to fix the toilet. Like, I've never seen a plumber like that. And actually, they're very needed and helpful.
Nick VinZant 38:49
It's just all perception. Right? Right. Yeah. I mean, maybe there is some like, Okay, some jobs, you could learn how to do maybe easier than other ones. But I don't think that that's necessarily true. I've tried to learn how to do any kind of trade work and I couldn't put together a desk from IKEA. It's just I mean, it's just perception, right? Like some jobs are perceived as being easier so they pay less money. A teaching is one of the hardest things you can do. We don't pay educators shit.
John Shull 39:16
Oh, it's less than we don't we don't go on rants, especially politically motivated ones. But I gotta tell you, that is one thing I would I would campaign for forever is teachers need they need more. I mean, they should be paid a lot more money. I
Nick VinZant 39:30
just have a firm belief to finish this whole conversation up. I just have a firm belief that you are never taught or learn the one thing that you need to actually know or learn. whatever situation you're in, in life, you're never taught the one thing that you need to know, or you never learned the one thing that you need to know. And then 10 years later, you're like, Man, I wish I would have known that. Okay.
John Shull 39:54
All right, let's get some shout outs here. We're gonna start off with Eric Ingerman. Josh O'Brien Hey, Carl here. Devin Garimella don't don't see a lot of Devon's usually. Albert Ragland, Austin Smith, Christopher Lewis, Gabrielle Mayer, George Mata and Anthony caster. Appreciate all of you and listen, if you haven't subscribed to our socials, you should check it out because they're pretty awesome. And we're about to hit a couple of milestones on a few of them. So I don't want to I don't want to jinx it because Nick thinks I Jinx everything but you do. If you haven't subscribed, you definitely should. I know you always kind of give it a shout out anyways, to do so. But I'm asking you to John, Mother effing Shoal is asking you to this time. Okay,
Nick VinZant 40:45
well, I'm watching this subscriber or follower or whatever account you're talking about racking up because you Jinx everything and saying, I don't I'm not gonna jinx it, you know, and then this is jinxing it.
John Shull 40:56
I'd say, Sir, I'm going to lead us into my second this, you know, I'm gonna make this a question. Or you can say a statement. I used to be superstitious, like when I was a younger person, I am not anymore.
Nick VinZant 41:12
I'm not superstitious. But I have a firm belief in the idea that once you try to grab something, it slips away from you. Because I think that once you kind of sit back a little bit and reflect on your success or possible success, you get a little bit lazy. I think that once you kind of acknowledge the possibility as it's ramping up, it slips away from you, because you kind of check out a little bit. That's what I think. So
John Shull 41:38
I just watched a show called bodies on Netflix, you should check it out. If you haven't, it's a couldn't get into that, actually. Oh, you actually checked it out, even though it's it kind of has a horror horror, like elements to it a little bit, not much, but a little bit,
Nick VinZant 41:52
you've got to okay, if you start a show, when are you? When are you going to back out of it? Like how far will you get into a show that you're not going to finish before you decide this isn't for me?
John Shull 42:04
I don't actually because I am one of those people that will spend two days trying to figure out if there's a show I want to watch. And I watch all the trailers, I see who's in it. I sometimes I'll read the Wikipedia to see like how it actually ends, and then I'll watch it like I'll commit. I do have to tell you though, that the limited series that are coming out, like like bodies, I think was like six episodes or whatever, I think there is going to be a season two but whatever. That's so much more appealing to me than like investing my time in like a 20 episode season of something.
Nick VinZant 42:38
I can't imagine myself watching a TV show that has multiple seasons that goes beyond three seasons, I can't even imagine it. I pretty much only watched limited series like I want this whole thing to be done in five episodes or six episodes.
John Shull 42:54
Yeah, I mean, I, I don't disagree. I think it's smart. I think the filmmakers and TV show folks are getting it, you know, Quicker, quicker results, less attention span and see what happens. Anyways, what I was getting to originally was one of the characters in there basically says that nothing is by chance, everything is predetermined. And the older I get, I'm starting to absolutely think that way that you know, you're born with certain genetic, you're basically born with a map of your life before you even before you even say a word. And that's why I don't think superstitions are necessarily applicable anymore.
Nick VinZant 43:34
I can kind of see that I agree with it in the sense that your life is kind of all mapped out for you pretty early on. It's basically a combination of genetics and your environment. And unless you get really lucky, it's pretty easy to see where you're going to kind of end up you're going to basically be your parents, unless something really changes. I kind of think that all people are basically the same. The person at the top would be the person at the bottom if they were faced with the same same circumstances and vice versa. I don't think that people are really special. We all would make the same decisions given the same resources and abilities. I
John Shull 44:10
mean, should I still think people who are special and wealthy and powerful still aren't special, so it doesn't matter. Oh, all right. Couple of things here for you one. I feel like I had a good intro there. But now I'm just going to ask you a couple questions. Okay. The what's the more regrettable tattoo a full on like just full sleeve but it's just the black ink like there is just, you know, it's just literally a black sleeve of ink. A forehead tattoo. Or a tramp stamp?
Nick VinZant 44:43
Oh, a forehead tattoo dude, I mean, that's pretty easy answer like that's right on your face. Anything else you can be hidden up. I would love to know like a percentage on what percentage of people regret the tattoos they got.
John Shull 44:58
That's the thing I feel like because you know you see A lot like I'm gonna use jelly roll as an example, the artists, the singer, the dude has all kinds of face tattoos. And you're telling me that if he loses a lot of weight, he's a bigger guy. Like, those aren't going to look fucked up. Or Or if he gets older, they're just not going to naturally fade and they're going to look terrible. face tattoos
Nick VinZant 45:18
are really hard things. I look if tattoos are your thing, they've just never personally been mine only because I could never think of anything that I really wanted to get. But like, face tattoo is a big move. A big move. Yeah, listen,
John Shull 45:34
like you said, I'm not hating on you. If you have them, like good on you. I just I have to tell you that. Not that my opinion matters. But I don't think I've ever seen one like a person with a face tattoo. Like on their forehead where I've gone. Okay, that's awesome. That's alright, I can see that. It's always like, Oh, shit. Like, that's, that's not a good look.
Nick VinZant 45:57
It's kind of crazy that in hindsight, Mike Tyson's face tattoo was is probably the best fake face tattoo.
John Shull 46:07
And that's not saying much, by the way. So
Nick VinZant 46:09
that's just not something I would personally do. I'd like to hear from somebody who's gotten a face tattoo like, Man, how do you just make that decision? That's a tough one.
John Shull 46:17
All right, second, second matter of business. Travis Kelce. Taylor Swift. Do you think it's real?
Nick VinZant 46:26
I think that it might be real, but it is the most manufactured PR relationship that I've ever seen. It's weird how all of the cameras just happened to be in exactly the like John and I both worked. John still does. I used to work in news and I started out as a photographer. And the interesting thing to me about it is you can see that all of these leaked photos or secret photos, or film photos all suddenly have these perfect eyelines. Like, all of this is staged, it's all played up. Maybe it's real, maybe it's not. But it's certainly a played up thing.
John Shull 47:01
Yeah, it's I don't think it's real at all. However, I say that because kind of loosely following Taylor Swift's love life for the last two decades. It seems like she really falls head over heels for whoever. And it always ends the same. So I have no I have no faith that this one will be different.
Nick VinZant 47:20
I feel like that's just all
John Shull 47:22
public relations. Could be could absolutely be. She
Nick VinZant 47:25
fascinates me in one regard only and that is a symbol and writes about as a symbol for a life that she has never lived in the sense that most of her songs are about being kind of your average person in high school. And she was in country music, but I think that she was born to a wealthy family in Philadelphia, New York. Never had any country roots never lived any kind of normal middle class upbringing, she essentially sings about and portrays a reputation of a life that she has never lived.
John Shull 47:59
While you said that very eloquently.
Nick VinZant 48:01
Yeah, that's the one thing that I don't understand about it, right? It's endlessly singing about a life that you have never lived. It's pandering.
John Shull 48:09
I almost don't even want to continue. I feel like we should just end the show. Which this whole show. Okay. All right. Last question. This kind of ties into our top five. I was just wondering this. What is your dream car?
Nick VinZant 48:23
One with four wheels?
John Shull 48:25
That's such a bullshit answer.
Nick VinZant 48:27
I don't care. I could care less about cars. I don't have a single dream car that I've ever thought of. Every time that I have gotten a car I bought three cars. And in all three circumstances I went to the dealership I was like, Alright, this is the one that I want. Give me the most basic model like well, we have this does that don't care? Like well, we want to get power windows on the truck. No, I can reach right across. I don't have it I could care less about a car. The only card that I need is a vehicle that has four wheels and gets me to where I'm going reliable a reliable car is my dream car. I could care less.
John Shull 49:01
Why did I Why did I just know you were not gonna have any kind of interesting answer at all to that they're
Nick VinZant 49:06
all the same to me. No, I don't I think that all cars my wife's car, which is a Toyota Highlander. Priya me. So Highlander. You don't have a Prius with four people. Toyota Highlander is the best car anyone would ever possibly need. Like you don't need anything in life beyond that. It's I think it's like $45,000 has everything you need. I don't think that you need to. I don't think you need anything more than a $45,000 car.
John Shull 49:36
The question wasn't what vehicles practical what's what's good for normal people? It's just you've never once in your life been like, Man, I really would love an Aston Martin or a Lamborghini.
Nick VinZant 49:47
No, I have never cared about cars.
John Shull 49:51
Okay, I don't think you have to care about cars to ever want something luxurious like that. But
Nick VinZant 49:59
you Nothing. Never. Okay, all right.
John Shull 50:03
Well, I mean, you still made it half interesting, but not really. So
Nick VinZant 50:07
what's your dream car?
John Shull 50:10
I've always wanted a Lamborghini and I, I effed up because when I first met my wife in Orlando, she bought me like a Groupon to where you can drive one like around a track somewhere. And for some reason, I didn't do it. And we ended up giving, we ended up giving it away to somebody else. Like one of our friends or something. So I could have at least gotten in it probably gone up to 150 180 miles. Well,
Nick VinZant 50:36
you could have driven it not just written with somebody else in it. No, like, I
John Shull 50:39
mean, from what I understood, I could have driven it so wow. That up? I did. I mean, obviously my dream, would it be able to get into a Formula One car, but I'm not even sure I could get my ass in the cockpit of one of those things, let alone be able to drive it successfully. So it's all good. Look,
Nick VinZant 50:57
I think that Formula One has way too many kinds of sexual innuendos to the cockpit in the pole position.
John Shull 51:04
That's all racing. That's not just Formula One.
Nick VinZant 51:07
Nobody talks about being in the pole position in NASCAR. He's first. They don't have to class it up with special words. Like he's in the pole position. You mean he gets to start first?
John Shull 51:19
I'm not going to hate on NASCAR. It's turn left going 200 miles an hour. He still got to be talented. However, give me cockpits pole positions. I'll take that all day.
Nick VinZant 51:30
I'm sure you will. I'm sure you will. Are we at our top five or do you have another one? No, we're
John Shull 51:37
ready to roll.
Nick VinZant 51:39
Okay, so our our top five is top five worst car sounds. What's your number five. There's a lot of really bad sound. Yeah, car makes you like oh, I don't want to hear that. Yeah,
John Shull 51:50
I hope us saying these brings back terrible memories for some of you out there. So I'm gonna start with my number five. And that is basically slowly hearing the air go out of one of your tires. Oh, it is and you can be driving. You can be feeling the tire up. You can be trying to check it out. But when you just hear that song. And then it just talked. Oh, you're fucked. And it is. It's so deflating. Because then your mind just goes to you know, do I have a spare? Do have a jack? You know, if you're at the dealership or whatever. It's like, well, then I have to spend $800 on new tires. It's just it's a terrible, terrible sound. Oh,
Nick VinZant 52:32
yeah. Because that's just like, how much is this going to cost me? Yeah, how much is this going to cost me and it's just endless complications to throw change a tire new cars, maybe four new tires. Yeah,
John Shull 52:45
pro tip out there for all of you who may not have a car yet. Tires cost a lot more than you think they do.
Nick VinZant 52:52
Yeah, that's why I buy cheap cars, man. I can go get four new tires for the car. I have it cost me four and $50.
John Shull 52:59
Yeah, but that's that's it? I mean, okay, that's not expensive, but not I mean, but when you're, you know, when you're a young person or even an old person, you don't have that kind of income. And you're like, Well, I've done now. Fine four and $50 so I can drive my car like, tires,
Nick VinZant 53:12
expensive, man. But next to the road. You got to be watching out for him. My number five is a seatbelt alarm. It just annoys the crap out of me because I'm gonna put it on. Just let me do it at my pace. Those
John Shull 53:25
are I mean, they are terrifying and it's just Ding ding ding
Nick VinZant 53:32
It's always like I'm doing something. It's terrible. It's
John Shull 53:38
yeah, it's by far. That's probably the most annoying like not her like not harmless sound in a car I bet.
Nick VinZant 53:47
Ah, I have one a higher on the list that I would say is the most annoying non harmless one. Or not like that. That means something's like it's not something bad necessarily like something wrong with the car wash number four. When
John Shull 54:02
your air conditioning or heat goes out, and you can just hear the vent just tucked in, nothing comes out and you're like, is there a bomb in my engine? Way? Why isn't there any air coming out? Why does it sound like there's a monkey in there just fucking around, you know, just hitting the thing over and over and over again. It's just a shitty sound. Therefore,
Nick VinZant 54:22
just go for 60 Air man.
John Shull 54:25
I don't even know what all what just rolled down the windows
Nick VinZant 54:28
for windows down at 60 miles an hour for 60 air you never heard for 60 year.
John Shull 54:33
I haven't No, but it's it's the worst man because yeah, I don't have to explain why but it's just not a good sound to have when you're driving or in a car.
Nick VinZant 54:43
What's the fastest that you will drive with your windows down?
John Shull 54:46
Oh, I mean, trust me. i Well, I haven't had air conditioning in my car. ever actually, since I wasn't a Florida so i mean i Wow. 85 I mean, I'll go I go on the highway with it. It's Fine,
Nick VinZant 55:00
I would never I would the most I'm gonna go is like, busy arterial Street. I think people know what I'm talking about, right? It's like the main street. That's not a highway. I'm not going over 45 With my windows down.
John Shull 55:13
I will say this though, that somebody commented, I used to have my hand like out the window. Then somebody wants commented and uh, how bad that made me look. So now, now I don't put my hand out out of the window anymore.
Nick VinZant 55:27
What do you mean your hand out the window? Like how far like it's just resting on the window sill? Or, like, you're sticking it out there? Like you're?
John Shull 55:33
Yeah, you know, like you have it out or you have it hanging over the side of the door. No, I know. I get it. Now. I get it. I don't do it anymore. It was a lesson that needed to be learned. And I learned it. You
Nick VinZant 55:45
should have your hand hanging out the door.
John Shull 55:50
You know what I should have learned after I got stung by two bees within a week doing that, by the way, because I was driving and literally one of them. I mean, this is what years ago, but I was driving and I felt something in my arm. I look and there's a damn be stuck to it going down the road.
Nick VinZant 56:04
Why did you start doing this? What was? Once
John Shull 56:09
again, it's kind of like what we mentioned earlier, or what we were talking about earlier. My parents did it. So somewhere in May I started to do it. And then somebody along the way, tried to be cool. Like dad. Well, you know, he probably had a sickness hand though. At least he had a reason I didn't. So I
Nick VinZant 56:26
did have a truck one time that the door got bent and I had to climb out the back window. guy to get it in and out of the back window of the car. It had like a little I don't know what they call those on a truck. But you had like the back window could spread apart. Yeah. And I had to get in and out through the back window. Like
John Shull 56:43
on a regular basis. No, yeah,
Nick VinZant 56:45
I was gonna weigh in or out. Do what I do. Like I didn't give a shit. It was kind of fun. All right, all right. What's your number one like a, like a spy movie, like jumping in the back. My number four is a loud exhaust. I hate a loud exhaust. I can't stay in that sound.
John Shull 57:03
So that's actually my number three. I so I don't I've never driven around with one. But obviously you hear them all over. It's just there's so many things you can do to mitigate that and people don't for whatever reason, I've
Nick VinZant 57:14
never understood the idea of like upgrading it just so that this exhaust sounds louder if you do something to the car that makes it faster or handle better. Okay, that's one thing, but just going in there and be like Nah, man, I'm gonna pay 100 bucks. So this thing sounds
John Shull 57:27
twice as loud. Just makes no sense at all no
Nick VinZant 57:31
sense to me. My number three is the scrape of hitting a curb. Like when you hit it and said like and you everybody like oh, he just checked it.
John Shull 57:41
Do we have so my number two is pulling into a parking spot and like running over the parking block or the roll like hitting it with the front? Yeah, and then you have to like put it in reverse and it's like yeah, it's so bad. It's so terrible.
Nick VinZant 57:57
I live in a place Seattle where there's a good amount of bad drivers like a good amount of like oh my god that person can't drive because Seattle used to be pretty bad with traffic so you wouldn't really get going that fast that much and I don't think that people were accustomed to that now that the speed is kind of increasing you can move around pretty well. But I saw somebody like pull just flat out turn completely miss where they were trying to go like the driveway and just bash right into the curb. And like go go home and then when the car goes up and then they come Oh, that's a terrible sound hitting the curb. That you're number two.
John Shull 58:36
That's my number two. Yep.
Nick VinZant 58:37
My number two is when you start the car and it's already started that like Oh, that's terrible sound.
John Shull 58:47
That is terrible. That is Yeah, or like when you turn it off too soon, like before you put it in park or something on accident and it's just
Nick VinZant 58:58
oh yeah, like you're still moving and you throw it in park and it just like you're good yeah, that's terrible.
John Shull 59:05
That's a bad one. Or like if you're driving shift and you met and you miss it the clutch or something or just miss it in general, like and I'm just making that grinding sound drive. You know how to drive a stick? Not successfully. I feel like I could probably take me a half a day to learn. But yeah, I think I could I know I could.
Nick VinZant 59:27
Okay, so you've never driven one is you don't just I've tried I've tried so then No, you don't
John Shull 59:34
think I tried driving your truck one day?
Nick VinZant 59:38
Oh, maybe every car I've ever had has been a stick shift. I'm
John Shull 59:41
pretty sure I drove it and I'm pretty sure I almost were you had to be in it with me Don't you remember this i i missed the clutch and we didn't go up hill we kept going back backwards.
Nick VinZant 59:52
Oh, maybe I do remember this. Or
John Shull 59:54
maybe like drive it and maybe we're doing something and like you asked me to bring you your I don't remember but I really remember being in your truck and just biffen it in the in an Orlando parking garage? Oh, I
Nick VinZant 1:00:06
know what this was You did me a favor. I was at a town or something like that and you move my car. And then somebody else had to do it because you didn't know how to do it.
John Shull 1:00:15
I'm like, why is this fucking thing going forwards? It was bad, man. It's not a lot of
Nick VinZant 1:00:21
people who can drive stick now. Okay, what's your number one?
John Shull 1:00:24
Oh, man, every time this happens, I just my stomach turns into knots. That's when the gas light comes on. Hmm,
Nick VinZant 1:00:35
I can see that as being a number one. My number one is silence. Because that means your car's not working. That silence is the worst, worst sound that a car can make.
John Shull 1:00:47
I appreciate you for that. But no, I It's I used to be so paranoid of the Gaslight that when it came on, I got to the nearest gas station no matter what I was doing. Like, you know, because you have what, like 40 Miles most cars have 40 miles left or something? Yeah, yeah. As soon as I would come on, I would book it. Like, like, I was like literally going to the engine was going to die and sees if I didn't get it to the gas station.
Nick VinZant 1:01:15
Oh, you panicked?
John Shull 1:01:16
I panicked? I didn't precautious you were panic. No, I'm Yeah. And then I met my wife. And she was like, Dude, you're an idiot. Like, it can be on for like, 40 miles, you
Nick VinZant 1:01:26
have nothing to worry about. Oh, you didn't know that.
John Shull 1:01:29
I know. I that is something I did not learn until I got I'm gonna sound like such a terrible person. I also did not know that the arrow on the gas, you know, the gas meter. The gas gauge tells you which side your your gas is on your fuel tank. I
Nick VinZant 1:01:51
would make fun of you. But I didn't know that until I was probably my mid 20s.
John Shull 1:01:56
Yeah, I mean, that would be me too. But you know, late 20s 2627. I had no idea
Nick VinZant 1:02:00
if I remember, right, like I took a picture of it and like posted something to social media. And everybody else was like, oh, yeah, idiot. You didn't know that. Like, I thought I had stumbled across some great discussion
John Shull 1:02:11
from my wife. My wife was like, yeah, you've you've lived 25 years without ever knowing that. How did you ever live?
Nick VinZant 1:02:18
I had no idea. I had no idea. That's what that was. But now I look at it every time and feel smart. Yeah, well, me too. How many of you read it? Have you ever fully ran out of gas? Never.
John Shull 1:02:29
And if I ever do, you might as well just hit me with your car because that means that I've given up on life.
Nick VinZant 1:02:34
Mm hmm. I did one time. One time I completely ran out of gas because I wanted to I was traveling across the country and I wanted to be like, I wonder how close I can get this down. Let's I can I can make that I can make that. I didn't I didn't make it.
John Shull 1:02:49
No, you did it. But you're here to tell the story. So it's good. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 1:02:52
it's not that big of a deal. The car just kind of sputters out and you like pull over. You're like, well, I guess I'm walking. We go walking. He was walking was fine. What's in your honorable mention? There's tons of a man. Yeah,
John Shull 1:03:05
I'll name just a couple that grind my gears. Specifically, one is the grinding of your brakes when they're gone.
Nick VinZant 1:03:13
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like the the pads are down. You hear that? Yeah.
John Shull 1:03:16
And you're like, My engine is going and then you go to the dealership or the mechanic or like, no, actually, your brake pads are just gone. What's more annoying than that, though, is like hitting the brakes in them squealing that's pretty annoying. Oh,
Nick VinZant 1:03:32
yeah. Yeah, I'll give you that one out there. That's
John Shull 1:03:36
bad. Also, this doesn't pertain to everybody at all. But I once had a car that the gas cap. I couldn't get it on. So for like, a year, I would drive and it would just hit the side of my car. tink, tink Tink. That's quite annoying.
Nick VinZant 1:03:55
I could put on a really specific one. In the sense that God I just literally forgot what it was though saying what it is. Oh, I would put on okay. I would put on there the sound of your door closing half a second after you realize you left your car keys in the car. Yeah, that's to like, God. Dang it. Well, nowadays
John Shull 1:04:20
when you do that the vehicle makes a noise. It'll like beep at you that you left the keys in the car. Oh, I don't have that kind of car. Well, I know you drive uh, I don't know a danger Ranger or something. drive
Nick VinZant 1:04:33
across Subaru. Crosstrek absolute base model 22 grand, great car by the way.
John Shull 1:04:38
God, you're such a you're such an outdoorsy guy, a Toyota Highlander. How would you say Subaru? Crosstrek maybe? Yeah, same thing. So good
Nick VinZant 1:04:49
for you. Yeah, I can drive all over the place with that. Um, I don't appreciate I don't like the sound of a real car horn honk. Not like Hey Jimmy, car horn honk or like Uh, like I'm pissed off when somebody lays on it. car alarms, I generally hate the sound of car alarms
John Shull 1:05:07
more or less the old school ones. I mean nowadays once again, I don't think I've I've heard a new vehicle, a newer vehicle with an actual car alarm. I don't think I have. I don't
Nick VinZant 1:05:17
think anybody ever pays attention to him. No, even your own car alarm you're not running out there being like, what is it? What's going on over here? Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance. Leave us a quick review doesn't have to be some big thing. Just a couple of quick words. It really helps out the show and let us know what you think are some of the worst car sounds. I can't stand loud noises. I hate loud exhaust and when somebody's just laying on that horn, but I really think that the worst car sound is just nothing at all. Let us know what you think though are some of the worst car sounds to hear