Traditional Hand Tap tattoos aren’t just tattoos, they’re a unique, ceremonial experience specifically designed to connect someone with their history, ancestors and culture. Hand Tap Tattoo Artist Lane Wilcken has honed his craft for more than a decade. We talk the process behind Hand Tapped tattoos, the unique story behind each tattoo and connecting with those who have come before you. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Hardest Minor Life Decisions.
Lane Wilcken: 01:18
Pointless: 28:41
Top 5 Hardest Minor Life Decisions: 48:13
Interview with Hand Tap Tattoo Artist Lane Wilcken
Nick VinZant 0:00
Nick, welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode, hand tapped tattoos and the hardest, minor life decisions
Lane Wilcken 0:24
in our traditions, ultimately, tattooing came from our ancestors, who are deified into Gods. There are not many things you can do in this life where you can have the same experience that your ancestors had. You know, feel the same type of pain, hear the same rhythms, and in our tradition, the practitioner chooses the design for the individual, not the other way around.
Nick VinZant 0:51
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it really helps us out. So I want to get right to our first guest. This is hand tapped tattoo artist. Lane Wilkin, what is a hand tapped tattoo?
Lane Wilcken 1:11
A hand tapped tattoo is something that's usually done as a ritualistic practice, and among Austronesian people, we do hand tap tattooing as a ritual practice to adorn ourselves with manna. If you play video games, sometimes you might see Manna used for magic. Manna is a spiritual authoritative power that can be inherited or bestowed upon individuals, and we do that through tattooing. So it's a little bit different from going into a tattoo shop, where it's more focused on the art, this is focused on the symbolism, the meaning and the relationship that is denoted by the markings. How
Nick VinZant 2:00
does the process of doing it like? How do you do a hand tap tattoo? So
Lane Wilcken 2:05
the tools that we use in hand tap tattooing are very different from what you would see in a tattoo shop. It's different from Stick and poke. It's different from a machine. These are usually wooden handles with bone combs of needles attached perpendicularly to the handle at a wide angle, and the those carved bone needles are dipped in a soot based ink placed over the skin and tapped right into the skin like this, in and out, like a sewing machine. It's not easy, because it's not, it's it's not like a machine where you just kind of set a depth, so to speak, and you find the sweet spot, and you go every tap I am feeling, how deep to go to the skin? Yeah,
Nick VinZant 2:57
that's what I was going to ask you, right? Like, looking at it like, okay, that doesn't look super hard, but what's the intricacies of it? Like, why is this something that really has to be passed down and taught to people?
Lane Wilcken 3:11
Well, one is the skill set of the tools is, is considered proprietary knowledge, if you will. This is handed down from teacher to student. We kind of guard our our creation methods for making these tools, because that is considered sacred knowledge in our traditions. Ultimately, tattooing came from our ancestors who are deified into Gods. So it's a sacred process. And so my tools, because they've come through my teacher and his teacher before him, you know, continuing on through the generations of time, the tools are considered to have a lineage, and they have a genealogy, if you will. And so that's something that we kind of guard because it's considered sacred, that lineage is considered sacred, and not anyone can just take it up. You have to be chosen. So I'll have, for example, people that will approach me say, hey, I want to learn how to hand tap. I want to learn how to hand tap, but you might not be the right person for the job. I choose my apprentices. All of my tattooing, siblings and teachers, they choose their apprentices. It's not the other way around. It's not like you going to a university, applying for a job, for a job, or getting accepted into a school, or anything like that. We choose who gets to learn when
Nick VinZant 4:50
you give somebody one of these tattoos, is it just about the tattoo, or is other things that come along with it as well?
Lane Wilcken 4:59
Well? But before people come to me, I have to have them do a little bit of genealogy. Because even though, like, take the Philippines for example, even though we're considered all Filipino, that's a nationalist kind of identity, that's a national construct. But within our islands, and that there are over 7000 islands in the Philippines, and there are, at the very minimum, of 132 distinct ethnic groups in the Philippines. But we do have our own nuances and distinctness. So you can have a design that's found among many cultures in the Philippines, but the size, the placement, the orientation of that design might denote what ethnic group it belongs to. So to avoid me tattooing somebody with designs that are not part of their ethnic group. And I would, if I did that, I could inadvertently be assigning them to a different ethnic group, and that means assigning them to a different set of ancestors, which would be incorrect. So there is this literacy, I would call it, in our designs that most people don't understand. You have to be literate in the designs. This is the type of conceptual language that we adorn our bodies with.
Nick VinZant 6:32
Yeah, it's not just like a pretty picture, so to speak, like somebody who's getting a tattoo at the shop down the street is just getting like, I like this thing. So you have to be very specific about exactly what you're putting on someone's body, right?
Lane Wilcken 6:47
And in our tradition, the practitioner chooses the design for the individual, not the other way around. So in western tattooing, you can go into a shop and you can say, Oh, I like that. That's pretty an example I like to use is someone can walk into the shop see some tattoo flash like they'll see a rose, for example, Oh, I like that rose and and I'm a botanist, so I in my favorite flowers, the rose. I'm going to get that put on my hand, so I can always remember my love for roses. But in our traditions, that's already been done by our ancestors millennia upon millennia ago. So as part of that continuity of culture, we try to be as traditional, for lack of a better term as possible, so that we assign people to the right ethnicity for one, but also establish a relationship with the correct ancestors. It's thought that when we tattoo and and for context, Nick we, before we begin any tattoo, we have to do prayers and offerings to our ancestors, to invite them into the space. In our culture, it's considered rude to talk behind another person's back, which, you know, is common in a lot of cultures. But even with those that are spirits, those that have passed on, we still want to invite them into the space so that we are not talking behind their back when we tattoo again, this is a conceptual language that we're putting on people's bodies, and so it's a form of talking about them and and so they have To be invited
Nick VinZant 8:40
when we talk about kind of the symbols and you deciding the tattoo, are there certain themes that you go with, like certain designs, certain patterns that you go with? Well,
Lane Wilcken 8:52
placement on the body. You can have a triangle on one part of the body, but if I put it to a different part of the body, for example, it changes the meaning of the design. So there's a literacy even with placement. And then there's composition as well. In a lot of our compositions in the Philippines, we denote the three major levels of our cosmology, the sky world or the heavenly world, the earth world and the ancestral realm. And so usually when we do our compositions, there's going to be elements that denote those three realms. So there's, again, with the literacy of the designs, there's an understanding of cultural concepts, as well as just oh, you know, if you have somebody that goes to a tattoo shop that does tribal tattoos or whatever you want to call them, and they just say, Oh, this is for your family, they're probably just giving you a very superficial. Cultural level of understanding. Each of the markings has a meaning behind it or concept behind it, but sometimes even oral tradition that's attached to it. So some of the designs function as mnemonic devices to remember cultural concepts, but even oral history. Some of our designs that we do very commonly, or usually when people come to us for the first time, we start out with foundational designs that are what we consider a foundational design to denote our earliest beginnings or our origin stories in the Philippines.
Nick VinZant 10:44
Is it the kind of thing where you could look at the tattoos that somebody has and know where they're from, who their family is, what they believe, those kind of things exactly.
Lane Wilcken 10:52
There are some designs that denote your role in society, in the community. We don't have things for like insurance agent,
Nick VinZant 11:04
yeah, yeah,
Lane Wilcken 11:08
accountant, right. No, no designs for accountants. But if you're an artificer or crafts person of some sort, then there might be a design that represents that if you are a obviously a warrior, or if you've taken human life, there are designs for that. There are designs for those that are healers, or traditional healers. So you could potentially walk into a village in the old days, and you could recognize who's in charge, who you need to steer clear of, who you would go to for help. How
Nick VinZant 11:51
long would you say it took you to get good at it? That long? A long time.
Lane Wilcken 11:59
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, thank God for all the people that let me practice on them in the early days literally practice because, yeah, some of my earlier work was rough, and so in the early days, there was hardly anybody doing this type of work. This would be around 2012 is when I first started tattooing. And in my head, I always was stressed out when I started, you know, keep the calm demeanor. I want the person to remain calm. If I'm panicking, they're going to panic. But in my head, I was just like, don't mess up. Don't mess up. Don't mess up. I I don't think I became comfortable with doing the work for about four to five years. Wow, that long. It was very stressful. Now I enjoy it. I enjoy doing the work because of, you know, I'm at a level of proficiency where I don't have to think about how to tattoo that. I can just tattoo it. And yeah, and my students, they stay with me for a very long time as well. One of my students, Natalia, she practices in Hawaii. She sat with me for seven years and some of my other students that haven't graduated yet, Johnny's been with me for going on seven plus years now. Shane, one of my my students, he's been with me for four years now. They they stay with me for a very long time so that they are proficient, not just with the skill set to tattoo, but all the the lore, all the knowledge, all the oral traditions, conceptual ideas that go along with the designs, so that they're proficient with all of that as well. It takes a while to accumulate all of that knowledge. So it's working knowledge, not just random factoids.
Nick VinZant 14:18
Yeah, yeah. You have to be able to apply it, not just know what the book says, so to speak, from a technical aspect of it, what's the hard part of it, knowing how deep in the skin to go, or what like, I guess that's
Lane Wilcken 14:33
one of them. That's part of it, knowing how deep to go in the skin. And everybody is a little bit different. Some people's skin is thicker than others, for example, and in the Philippines, we have sometimes quite a bit of the racial mixture when you have not to sound racist or anything like that. But Europe. Skin tends to be tougher to tattoo.
Nick VinZant 15:02
Yeah, differences. People are different. Yeah,
Lane Wilcken 15:05
you come from a colder climate. Your skin's got to be thicker, just out of necessity, just to survive that, you know, you go down to the tropical areas. People's skin is is a lot more supple and has a lot more elastin. So working with different types of skin, especially when you have people that are mixed and I'm mixed myself, I'm part European. You You never really know what they're going to pull until you get into it and then knowing when to hit harder or when to hit softer, how many teeth on the tool you can get away with. Sometimes you have to go with a smaller size tool, if they have, you know, thicker skin. So I don't have to just I don't want the process to be brutal. I want it to be as pleasant as possible. So if I have to hit them too hard, that's not going to be a good experience. I'm probably not going to do very good work. So having the discernment to to recognize, you know, the skin type, and work with that skin type, that is just one aspect that my students have to learn with the technical side of things, and obviously you cannot go to Walmart and pick up these types of tools, so becoming proficient with creating them, we like to use the Traditional bone implements of our ancestors, because the idea behind this is continuity of culture. And so when a person comes to us in in the words of my Kumu Sulu ape, Ki oni, there are not many things you can do in this life where you can have the same experience that your ancestors had. You know, feel the same type of pain, hear the same rhythms, see the same markings, receiving it in a ritual setting. There's not many things you can do in this life where you can have the same experience that your ancestors had hundreds, if not 1000s of years ago.
Nick VinZant 17:19
Are you ready for some harder slash? Listener submitted questions. Sure. Does it hurt? It looks like it hurts. All
Lane Wilcken 17:27
tattooing hurts. But what the general consensus is, I would say 99% of the people that we work with say that hand tapping is more tolerable than the tattoo machine. In other words, it doesn't hurt as much. And the reason for that is, with the machine, it's those needles are going in now your skin so fast that it's a blur. It's a lot more invasive. So when I'm working, it's tap, tap, tap, tap, much fewer punctures to achieve a line than with a machine. And it's rhythmic, the rhythms that I use when I'm tapping, what my teacher calls the song of the tools. Those rhythms are also passed down while we work and they they, a lot of people will sometimes remark how that song is familiar to them and it's soothing to them. So it, it does hurt, but people, usually, after the first five or 10 minutes, are able to relax through it, and I have had quite a few people fall asleep while I work.
Nick VinZant 18:49
Can anybody get one?
Lane Wilcken 18:54
So that's a good question. Can anybody get one? It really depends on the practitioner. You know how magnanimous they might feel with our practice. We we will tattoo foreigners, so to speak, but it's fairly rare. Usually there needs to be some type of connection to our culture. Um, even if it's just like a close friendship with Filipinos, you know, where you participate or support our culture, because we have to take into account that you're putting somebody's ancestors on that person's skin. So it's the prerogative of the practitioner if they want to figuratively adopt you into their family, if that makes sense, yeah,
Nick VinZant 19:53
it's a much bigger deal. It's not the same as just putting a cat on somebody's leg, right long. Longest it's ever taken you to do one
Lane Wilcken 20:01
the longest ceremony that I did was 11 hours long, and we tattooed this young woman from just beneath her breast all the way down to her ankle. And that took a whole day. What
Nick VinZant 20:19
would you say is, like the average,
Lane Wilcken 20:22
most of the time, I want to work within a person's endorphin response, which, for males, it's about two to two and a half hours, and for for females, it's about three and a half hours to sometimes five hours, once that endorphin response wears off. The skin usually gets a lot more angry. It'll get inflamed or swollen a lot more. And so I like to work within that endorphin response so that the experience is as pleasant as it possibly can be made and and the skin doesn't give me a lot of pushback,
Nick VinZant 21:01
hardest part of the body to tattoo,
Lane Wilcken 21:06
the butt. The butt's hard to tattoo.
Nick VinZant 21:10
Well, it's too soft, right? I would think the softness of it makes problems.
Lane Wilcken 21:14
It's it's soft and very elastic. So my stretchers have to pull the skin for me to keep it nice and taut. A lot of people think, Oh, they're holding this person down because it's so painful. No, they're they're pulling the skin apart so that I can go in there and make and the tool can enter the skin and exit the skin cleanly without doing a lot of damage. So with the with the butt, it's very, very elastic. You have a lot of mobility there. So they have to really, really stretch hard. And even then you would want, you want to have a very, very sharp tool to do that work, so that the tool can enter and exit cleanly. The first time I ever stretched was for a but
Nick VinZant 22:07
it was difficult that can be a real positive or a real negative, right? Like, depending on exactly what you're looking at, you might not want to
Lane Wilcken 22:15
be well, the first time I stretch was for Sua, I say a toy to, he's a, he's a to fungal Tata from Tonga. And he was doing a Samoan body suit, which they tattoo the buttocks, and he was doing the inner butt cheek. And I had to basically part the Nile and hold that. And because it is very elastic, you know, it's like planking stretching the skin is like planking for hours at a time. And so, yeah, you're trying to hold the skin, and you're shaking your arms. Don't want to work anymore. So my stretchers for conditioning, my my students, they plank so that they can have that strength to hold the skin while I work.
Nick VinZant 23:10
Yeah, that's one of those things that's that's not hard for a couple of minutes, but when you're talking hours, that gets really hard is what's the easiest part? Is there an easier part of the body?
Lane Wilcken 23:21
Oh, the body? Oh, the easiest part of the body. The easiest part of the body would be the outside of your calf. The skin is very taut there already. How
Nick VinZant 23:33
much of it is about the experience of getting it? For people, is it about once they have the tattoo, or is it about the experience of getting the tattoo.
Lane Wilcken 23:42
Well, getting getting it in the ritual setting, is that's an experience you that a lot of people will never trade. You know, even if they have a harder time through it. It's that experience. You know, you can go and get a tattoo from any tattoo shop, but having this type of experience, like, like I mentioned, you know, my teacher, Sulu API, Kyo, Nai Nunez, he says, you know, there are not a lot of things you can do in this world that where you can have the same experience as your ancestors. And so that is a big part of it, is getting it in the proper context and setting. But then afterwards, yeah, there is this sense of cultural pride and deeper feeling of connection with their with people's ancestors. Sometimes people afterwards have dreams of ancient ones that will come to them and recognize that they got markings as well. It is a very spiritual experience sometimes, sometimes when we're working, it'll feel like the room is crowded, even if they're just a few people in there, it'll feel like you're being watched. A few times we've had. Like a grandmother's perfume waft into the room, then we'll all smell this perfume that came out of nowhere, and the recipient will start crying, and I'll say, Do you smell that? Yeah, that's, that's, that's my grandma's perfume, or or things like that. The other day we had someone that we were working on, and all of a sudden the smell of tobacco came into the room, and ancestor enjoyed smoking tobacco. So we would smell that, you know, when we make the offerings we invite the family, of course, that are unseen. So it's not when I when I first started doing this, I was really surprised by these types of experiences. But you know, now that I've been doing this for a while, it's more commonplace than not to have these type of very visceral experiences, not just, Oh, I think I feel my ancestor. No, there. It's something tangible that happens.
Nick VinZant 26:09
Um, that's pretty much all the questions we got. Is there anything that you think that we missed, or anything like that? I think,
Lane Wilcken 26:15
I think if I if I wanted to share, I want to share one last thing, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, because I know that everybody that listens to your podcast isn't necessarily Filipino or Pacific Islander, but you know, whoever you are and whatever culture you come from, I would encourage you to take another look at your own culture. You know, even if it's been generations where you, like a lot of Americans, we tend to be very divorced from our ancestral cultures, living in this conglomerate that is America or the United States. But take the time to search for your ancestors, and if you search for them, they'll come and they'll find you, and they'll help you recover whatever practices you had in the past. Most cultures throughout the world had some form of body ornamentation. And if you take the time to do the research, do your due diligence, and dig in a little bit deeper than normal, you'll find what your people used to do, and when you find that, and you're able to have the same type of markings that your ancestors had, even if it was a millennia ago, there's something really powerful about that, you know, being connected and having that continuity in our culture, we define ourselves. We create our identities around our communities that we belong to. Here in the United States, we tend to be very, very individualistic, and that's okay, but you you are cut from a stone that is very, very old. You come from people that all of us come from, peoples that are very, very old cultures. And it is just really gratifying when you're able to make that connection again. Wherever your your people come from.
Nick VinZant 28:11
I want to thank lane so much for joining us. If you want to connect with him, we have linked to him on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on tick tock, Instagram and YouTube, and we've also included his information in the episode description. And if you want to see more of this interview, see really what this process looks like. The YouTube version of this episode will be live on March 20, at 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Scholl and get to the pointless part of the show. Do you think dogs from other countries can understand each other?
John Shull 28:50
I think animals might have a different dialect. However, I do think dogs all understand the same dog language.
Nick VinZant 28:59
Okay, but if you run into somebody that doesn't speak any of the language that you speak, can you communicate with them? I
John Shull 29:08
feel like I use my hands and I point and it's gotten me to whatever I've needed in the past. So yes, okay,
Nick VinZant 29:17
on a scale of one to 1010, being the highest, one being the highest, one being the lowest, 10 being the most complicated. Like, how complicated of a conversation Do you feel like you or how complicated of a thing can you convey to somebody that doesn't speak the same language that you do?
John Shull 29:33
Oh, a two, maybe a maybe a three on a good day.
Nick VinZant 29:37
I was gonna say three is probably the highest that I could go.
John Shull 29:41
You're gonna make fun of me for this, and maybe I deserve it. But I've actually picked up a lot of especially Spanish and French by getting, like, soccer channels, but they only come in in those languages. So I picked up, like, a lot of words from watching, you know, four. Foreign Language sports broadcast. I
Nick VinZant 30:02
did that with, like, kung fu movies at one point. I mean, that's an over exaggeration. I could understand, like, a couple of things from Kung Fu, like, oh, that's Hello,
John Shull 30:10
um. What was the point of this that we we have, I just
Nick VinZant 30:14
wanted to see what you thought like if dog, if I wanted to see if you thought that dogs could from different countries, could understand each other. And I actually looked this up. Apparently, yes, they do. There may be some differences, like they can't fully understand each other, but there may be some language differences, but they can get the gist of it from body language. I
John Shull 30:34
mean, what's the difference between a person who's 95 that can barely communicate talking to a five year old, it's, I feel like it's the same principle. They kind of understand each other to a certain degree. It's just not everything's there. Oh,
Nick VinZant 30:49
I mean, I have a five year old, and sometimes I have trouble understanding what he's talking about.
John Shull 30:54
How do you feel at your age having a five year old? Do you feel like it's taking the years off your life? Do you feel better? Do you feel more tired? Oh,
Nick VinZant 31:03
I don't know if being 43 is that old to have a five year old. I think that it would have been 20 years ago like you would have been ancient. I actually feel like one of the younger parents in my social circle right now, I know people who are probably in their 50s that have five year olds. People are doing it, like people are having kids a lot later in life, and I wonder how ultimately that's going to work out for us. Like, I think that you have essentially two choices in life. You can play with your kids or you can pay for your kids. And it's very difficult to do both. You're either young enough that you can play with them or old enough that you can pay for them, but it's really difficult to have both of those available to you. I think
John Shull 31:43
my wife has this saying that I hate to repeat, but she's absolutely correct. And really, everything in life, once you become an adult, comes down to time or money.
Nick VinZant 31:54
That's the weirdest thing about life, I feel like, is you're never presented with the opportunity to take advantage of the thing that you have. You're young, but you don't have money, you're old and you have money, but you don't have the energy to do the things. I think that's like, the great joke of life is that, like, let's give you this and then let's also put you into a perfect situation to not be able to take advantage of the thing that you have.
John Shull 32:17
Alright? Is it? Shout out, time. Go for it, but go for it. Big OS, big house, alright? Marcus young, sendo, Garcia, Kristen West, Martin cam Chev Neela, perus zervica, Robert Colombo, Faye de Hoff. Valentina tataru, sure. I screwed the shit out of that name. Oh, yeah. Badly Bridget L, Charles le, sure. The third. Love it when somebody has, like, an official name like that on social media. Third, yeah, that just makes me smile. I don't. I have always
Nick VinZant 33:01
felt a certain way about naming kids after, like the third, the second or the fourth. I think that takes an amount of arrogance that I don't have.
John Shull 33:11
I'm actually supposed to be a second. But I think I've mentioned this at some point in the last eight years of doing this is that my father apparently was either too pissed off or too under the influence when I was born and just said, Fuck it. We're just gonna name him John with no suffix, hmm.
Nick VinZant 33:29
But what if you feel like, is there any chance that he was planning on naming you John Sr, he wanted to name him after you. Wanted to name you after him, but then he looked at you as like, No, you
John Shull 33:43
know what's insane is when I came out of when I was born, rather I was, I was a premature baby, so I was only, like, six pounds and I was,
Nick VinZant 33:53
How'd that work out? Yeah, caught up. Hey, you caught up. Sure
John Shull 33:57
did. Sure did cheeseburgers. All right. Where were we? Think I'd like two names left, Katie Stein and Catalina Shirley. Okay, shout outs this week. All right. Have you read Vegemite?
Nick VinZant 34:18
I believe so, because I went to high school with a kid whose name I am going to mention, because he deserves to be called out on this even 20 years later, Ethan Gibson, who lived in Australia but moved back to the United States, his sister didn't have an accent, but he somehow did just totally Fake, and he was always leaning way into the Vegemite thing, because, yeah, I'm Australian. Like, No, you're not. But anyway, he hears this, I hope he does. Still getting called out. Everybody knew you were a liar, Ethan.
John Shull 34:54
What if Ethan has lived in Australia since, like, graduating high school, and he he
Nick VinZant 34:58
hasn't, I think that he lived. In Kansas somewhere. But yeah, I've had Vegemite and it was, like, disgusting. Yeah,
John Shull 35:04
I had it for the first time this past week. And yeah, I'm not, I'm not a fan. It's definitely an acquired I wasn't even around any actual Australians, so I'm not sure how it even got brought into the mix, but it is quite disgusting.
Nick VinZant 35:19
So I'm not entirely sure his name is Ethan Gibson. I know it's Ethan, but I don't know what. So if there's some other, sorry, some other fake Australian, Ethan Gibson, if you get caught, if you catch a stray, but
John Shull 35:30
well, because it is your birthday, I did a little research here. And you share a birthday. Let's see who you share birthdays with.
Nick VinZant 35:38
You're moving along. You could get, like, more than, Oh yeah, you can get it. Oh,
John Shull 35:41
I was excited. I wanted to celebrate you, because I can't be there with you. So I want, I wanted this episode to be a celebration my birthday of your and I know, I know 43 is not a, you know, it's not really a celebratory number, but you should be celebrated. So hopefully, thank you. You're getting everything you want today.
Unknown Speaker 36:01
I did.
John Shull 36:04
Anyways. Uh, let's see you share a birthday with James Madison, former US president. Oh, okay, who else? Oh, I've never even thought about this. Lauren Graham, I don't know who that is. Alexandra didary Hill, don't know who that is, okay? Well, both pretty famous actresses, but it's fine. And then then it starts to go downhill from there, bad kid Paris, who's apparently, according to famous birthdays.com she has the most famous birthday, March, 16 birthday. She's 14, and apparently, a YouTube star.
Nick VinZant 36:38
Oh yeah, there's a whole generation of people you don't even know. And I'm Why is there a YouTube star named bad kid Paris that doesn't seem like I have a whole problem with childhood YouTube stars that, to me, seems worse than childhood actors, because that's just parents completely exploiting them. Like,
John Shull 36:55
let's see here. Blake Griffin, former NBA basketball player, oh, Joel. Joel. Embiid. Oh, a lot of basketball players. I think I may have saved the best for near last. But you share a birthday with Flavor Flav
Nick VinZant 37:11
Oh, wait, how old is flavor play? He could potentially be the exact No, he's older than I am. Oh,
John Shull 37:18
yeah, he, he turned the ripe age of 66 today. Holy crap.
Nick VinZant 37:23
He's that old. I would not have, I would have, I would have guessed, in his 50s.
John Shull 37:28
Then a couple others, couple others. There's actually a lot of kind of famous people born today. Alan tudic, famous. I mean, he's, he's had a minor role in pretty much every Disney movie that's been made post 2005
Nick VinZant 37:43
Alan Tudyk, yep.
John Shull 37:46
Vladimir Guerrero Jr, nope. And I'm ending with Danny Brown. Oh, yeah. You know Danny or Alan Tudyk, no,
Nick VinZant 37:58
I know. No. Alan Tudyk now like, oh, okay, he's a resident alien, is what he's famous for,
John Shull 38:04
a lot of other things, but, and then you also share a birthday with local Detroit legend rapper Danny Brown as well.
Nick VinZant 38:12
So, oh, okay,
John Shull 38:15
so there's that.
Nick VinZant 38:17
Thanks. You're welcome. Well,
John Shull 38:19
out of all those, that
Nick VinZant 38:20
only counts as referencing my birthday once, though. So that puts you at number four, that whole thing doesn't count. Only counts as
John Shull 38:27
I have at least five or six more skits that I have. Oh,
Nick VinZant 38:30
okay,
John Shull 38:32
I'm not, I'm not going to see, let's see. But you know, I just, I think part of the reason that I that I truly care this episode about your birthday is, I don't think we've actually ever taped on your birthday that I can remember.
Nick VinZant 38:46
I mean, it's not that big of a deal. It's just a coincidence. But see, that's the thing, and
John Shull 38:50
I've been thinking about this more as I get older, and my cholesterol is getting higher and my heart beat is skipping every one or two times. Is that we should celebrate even the littlest of things in a birthday. Oh,
Nick VinZant 39:01
yeah, I think that I do generally love any kind of an excuse to celebrate something. But the thing about I never quite understood about your birthday is you're really nine months older than you are, right? Because it's not like you were just, I mean, you were born that day, but like you were alive before then. So really you're, you don't know what your actual birthday is. God damn
John Shull 39:23
it. Why can't? Why can't you just make it simple? I'm just saying
Nick VinZant 39:26
you don't know. You don't actually know what day your birthday is. You know what you're saying you came out of the womb, but you don't know when you were actually like, came into existence.
John Shull 39:36
So the moment the sperm hit the egg is, what you're saying whenever
Nick VinZant 39:41
you became, when you first became a fetus, right? Like, that's really your birthday. So really you're, like, eight or nine months older than you think that you are.
Unknown Speaker 39:51
You know, it's not like, it'd
Nick VinZant 39:52
be like, if you were just staying inside the house, like you're still there, you're still in the house. I mean. Yeah, I'm just saying you're eight or nine months older than you really are.
John Shull 40:04
You bring really good you make a good point. But I just don't know. That's not complicated, all right. Last
Nick VinZant 40:12
thing here is you don't know your birthday. No one knows it, no matter how
John Shull 40:15
old you are. And I know it's your birthday. There's number five. It's pretty good. I don't know if you saw the picture posted yesterday by Bill Belichick. I did not, but he has shown so I think you're aware that he is with it. Would
Nick VinZant 40:29
I have? Because I know what Bill Belichick
John Shull 40:33
is doing. Hold on, because he has proven to all of us out there that it doesn't matter what you look at least as men, it doesn't matter what you look like, it's how much money you have, it's how much there's a photo of him and his 23, or four, two year old wife or girlfriend as an ad pops up, of course. What was
Nick VinZant 40:54
it for? What do you been searching? What kind of car was it? So I can tell what you're searching,
John Shull 40:58
but he is, he is. I don't even know what that is, but they're on a beach, and he's like, holding her up, and it's just, it's a 70 year old man, at least. Like, what are you doing? What are you
Nick VinZant 41:10
doing? I understand, like, the appeal of it, right? Like, I get it. But what do you have in common with a 20 year
John Shull 41:18
old? He is 72 years old, and she's 24 I'm getting you her exact age right now. God,
Nick VinZant 41:27
like, that's his looking hands. I guess if both people know exactly what time it is, whatever time it is, is okay, but like, this is going to be a loving, meaningful relationship that you can truly like both grow together as people and enrich each other's lives. Like, what are they talking about? Like, what are you talking about with a 20 year old as a 70 year old person?
John Shull 41:48
It's just 2023 her name's Jordan Hudson.
Nick VinZant 41:52
That's insane. Like, what are you talking about? Like, what medic like, Honey, we can't save the beach so long. I gotta go pick up my medication.
John Shull 42:01
My thing is, like he has to be dying, right? Because, while dying, like, if you're her, why else would you, I mean, no offense, but he's 50 years older than you. Why? Why just, why? I don't even know, why just, why
Nick VinZant 42:16
don't I don't understand it more. I guess I don't understand it from either perspective, like I get it from her perspective is maybe she's in it for what we would assume that she's probably in it for, right? But like him, what are you getting out of this? So
John Shull 42:34
he, he was married to the same woman from 77 to Oh, six. They have three children. Imagine being those children. I mean, I guess you'd be proud of your dad at that point, right? Like, good for you, really.
Nick VinZant 42:46
Like, I would be like, Dad. What are you doing? I don't know. I would have I would be like, Dad, good for you. But, like, what are you doing? Like, what are you talking about? Like, you don't have anything in common with that person? They're 50 years younger than you are. Yeah, I mean, I think Ken is pushing it honestly. If you
John Shull 43:08
were to, like, you know, ask you or I if we wanted to switch roles, I don't know if I would say no to that.
Nick VinZant 43:14
But, I mean, I wouldn't say no to, like, a knight, of course, at that age, if I was a single man, but like, in terms of just being in a whole relationship, like, and the thing is, what I don't get is like a person of his wealth and fame, it's not like he would have a hard time, right? Like, it's not like he gets one shot, one bite at the apple, like he could have a different one all the time. So why keep going with the same one they like? What are you going to talk about? Well,
John Shull 43:42
so here's the crazier or one of the craziest stats I read about. So he, he's the new head football coach at North Carolina, yeah. And he, he has 14 players that he will be coaching that are the same age or older than his girlfriend. That's, yeah,
Nick VinZant 43:59
I don't come
John Shull 44:01
on. I mean, that's a Shannon sharp. Come on, man, yeah.
Nick VinZant 44:06
Like, you can do whatever you want, but I would be like, a little I would like, No, I would just feel, I would feel a certain way about it. But I guess he doesn't his life, so their lives let them do what they want.
John Shull 44:17
Yeah, well, I hope I'm expecting to see because it is your birthday, that's six times I'm done now I'm done, but I'm expecting to see some kind of photo pop up on social media of you doing that to your wife at some point today. So
Nick VinZant 44:30
not doing that. Number one, I know, like, you can only do that with that amount of age difference. Like, no, you could. I could do that with my wife right now, if I want to absolutely. Why would I? Like, I'm a 70 year old man. I don't want to do that. Like, Hey, honey, why don't you lay on your back and pick me up with your legs. Like, I'm 70. I don't want to do that. Like, why do you like? What are you doing in common? Like, Honey, let's go to the beach. I don't want to go to the beach. I need to take a nap. And I've got 15. Doctor's appointments that I need to go to today. Do you want to go out to the club? Yeah, I'll go out to the club, but we need to be home at nine. Like, there's just no,
Unknown Speaker 45:08
I just
Nick VinZant 45:10
do. You know life here? You know what's crazy is, apparently
John Shull 45:13
they met in February of 21 so she would have been what,
Nick VinZant 45:20
uh, 19. Oh yeah, that's they were
John Shull 45:23
seated next to each other on a flight.
Nick VinZant 45:26
Oh god,
John Shull 45:29
she fell in love with him. And this is per TMZ, by the way. Uh, he, she fell in love with him, apparently when he, uh, offered to sign one of her textbooks. Okay, I'm done. I can't. All right, let's just move on to the top five, please.
Nick VinZant 45:44
Man, some decisions show you who people really are. Like, Oh, I feel a lot differently about him now. Anyway,
John Shull 45:51
I mean, whatever I'd you know they're all, yeah, your heroes are always the worst people. Oh yeah, that he was our hero. But,
Nick VinZant 45:58
and I know what you mean, all right, I
Unknown Speaker 45:59
have to do it.
Nick VinZant 46:03
Oh, we had top five already, yeah,
John Shull 46:05
I think so. Oh, wow,
Nick VinZant 46:06
you're really phoning this in. I mean, you used to have a couple of things you would talk about now you just, like, we have we
John Shull 46:11
talked about, oh, that was it, okay, benjaminite, Bill Belichick, I mean, what else the people, I mean, we got talking about, you
Nick VinZant 46:19
got the birthday. And again, that was good. That was, that was, that was probably, that was a good one
John Shull 46:23
too. You know, Robert F Kennedy Jr, but I prefer not to this episode. Let's just
Nick VinZant 46:27
move. What did he do now? I can't even keep up with all of the things that people are doing anymore,
John Shull 46:32
so I got rid of it. I got ridiculed. And I it's probably, it's probably warranted saver. I yeah, I just can't listen to him talking. I'm not saying what he's saying is good or bad, or that I agree with it or don't agree with it, but like, I just, I just can't listen to him like it is, like nails on a chalkboard to me, like I just can't do it.
Nick VinZant 46:58
That's one of those things that Okay, so like, I went to school for mass communications, into mass communications, you learn about the debate between John F Kennedy and Richard Nixon, and how people on the radio thought one had won, and people on watching on TV thought the other had done a better job. So the idea being that like people's perception of you, how you sound, how you look, really does have a big influence. I don't think this is shocking news to anyone, but like, hearing that person talk is incredible that he got to the position that he's at, because you would think like, whoa. No no, no, no, no, no no. Like, no no. Just because of that, it would be like Gilbert Gottfried. Would never be like Gilbert Gottfried. I don't know if he's still alive, but Gilbert Gottfried would never become President of the United States, talking like that, like you could never do that, or president of anything.
John Shull 47:49
I just know Gilbert Godfrey died in April of 2022
Nick VinZant 47:53
Wow, a long time ago. So
John Shull 47:56
not really
Nick VinZant 48:00
a Time Lord, sorry, their time. Lord,
John Shull 48:01
you were 40. You were turning you had been 40 then, but hey, it's your birthday. 43 today. All right, I'm like
Nick VinZant 48:06
I said. I'm actually nine months older than I really am. That's just all right, top five. Okay, so our top five is the top five hardest minor decisions that you have to make in life like these are not big life decisions. These are just difficult, minor decisions. So
John Shull 48:23
mine, I kind of have a theme, and they're usually family related. What I'm in? Okay? So my number five is getting, like, picking out outfits, but not for myself, for my children, like trying to get them to agree to close, even though I asked them. Then you pick out clothes, and they say, No, we want you to do it. That sets the tone, right off the bat for how my morning's gonna go with my job. Oh
Nick VinZant 48:53
gosh, I don't have to do that at all well, because I
John Shull 48:56
I have two boys. Oh god, you know, yeah, so, oh yeah,
Nick VinZant 49:00
boys, it's like you're gonna wear like they don't give they don't they don't care at all.
John Shull 49:04
And no, well, my my youngest is worse than my oldest, and it's it can put me into a sour mood before I've literally even opened my email to start looking at work stuff. So wow,
Nick VinZant 49:16
you are such a pansy. Look at you. You're such a fancy now, can you have your whole life dictated by two small, little things? Look at the hide your flavor savers. Awful.
John Shull 49:29
You can't like that. Can grow that and whatever this is.
Nick VinZant 49:33
Well, it doesn't matter if the only thing you can do is that, then you shouldn't be doing that, like, right? Just because it's all you can do doesn't mean you should be doing it.
John Shull 49:41
I saved it for you for your birthday. There
Nick VinZant 49:44
you go. Okay, all right. Anyway, my number five is where to park. Whenever I'm going into a parking lot, I hate making a decision about where I'm going to park like I just hate deciding where I'm going to park. Should I park there? Should I park here? Why Park. There, and I live in a fairly crowded city, so like, it's kind of a decision every time. And I hate deciding where to park.
John Shull 50:08
Obviously, we've talked about my parking anxiety. So I mean, that's a that's a good one. I don't have it on my list.
Nick VinZant 50:13
You don't. I thought I wondered if it's going to be your number one. No, because a major life decision for you. Like,
John Shull 50:19
I went to the grocery store this morning, and it was pretty busy, but I parked literally the last spot and just walked because I don't care, I don't want to deal with it.
Speaker 1 50:32
This is the way I just, this is the way Don't, don't
John Shull 50:35
want to deal with it. No. Number four, alright, my So, my number four hardest minor life decision, once again, is, and this is going to sound kind of gross, but it's deciding whether to shower at night or in the morning.
Nick VinZant 50:52
Oh, always shower at night. I don't understand people who don't shower at the end of the day, like you're just taking all that filth with you into your bed, and then if you shower in the morning, then it's just still in the bed the next day. I do not understand not showering at night. Well, to me, that's disgusting.
John Shull 51:12
For me, it's like, if I shower at night, you know, I'll wake up the next morning, obviously, and I'll start to feel a little dirty, or I'll say, Yes, I'm going to take a shower in the morning, and then I wake up, of course, and I have to rush around, and I don't end up showering until the that night, because I'm just rushing around. So it's understanding frustrating can be frustrating.
Nick VinZant 51:32
I think it's because I don't have a sense of smell that I'm always worried about potentially stinking. But I shower constantly, two, two or three times a day.
John Shull 51:41
Geez, two or three showers? Yeah, three times. Maybe
Nick VinZant 51:44
occasionally I'll shower once a day, but always twice. Almost. I don't understand it's not hard. Like, how long does it take you to take a shower legitimately? How long does it take you to take a shower?
John Shull 51:59
Five to 10 minutes. I could take a
Nick VinZant 52:01
shower in 30 seconds.
Unknown Speaker 52:05
You can't. I
Nick VinZant 52:06
bet I could take a shower, okay? Maybe not soap, shampoo, wash your face, shave, like, do the whole thing, in terms of, like, the bare minimum, using soap, the whole body, even trying to get the back washing your hair two minutes, two minutes. I guarantee you, I could do it in two minutes. No problem. I feel
John Shull 52:29
like this is a challenge for an upcoming episode. See who can shower the fastest. See
Nick VinZant 52:34
who can shower the fastest. I
John Shull 52:36
mean, you're gonna be me, but I mean, I've taken fast showers. I just like to enjoy my time in the shower. That's what
Nick VinZant 52:44
it's about. But that's what I don't understand. Like, you're going to bed with all the day's filth, and then you're never going to be really clean again until you wash those sheets.
John Shull 52:54
Yeah, it makes it's kind of like brushing your teeth. Like, why? Why wouldn't you brush your teeth at night, instead of only in the morning, right
Nick VinZant 53:02
in the morning, which is what the normal situation is. Although I don't know anybody who ever brushed their teeth three times in a day. Like, do you brush your teeth during the day? Or just know,
John Shull 53:12
I know, you know, obviously I work in TV, so some of the talent will brush their teeth during the day, but I don't, yeah, I brush twice, once in the morning, once at night. Makes you feel all right.
Nick VinZant 53:24
Okay. Do you floss
John Shull 53:27
probably once or twice a week? Oh, I have lost more than that. I have sensitive gums so
Nick VinZant 53:32
Oh, my God, maybe you have sensitive gums because you don't flaws. I'm not talking about this with you. The point is you're
John Shull 53:40
fucking up your life, okay, number three or four, or whatever, my number four is
Nick VinZant 53:43
buying shoes. Buying new shoes is always a big decision, because you gotta like, Okay, do I like the way that those look? But if they're not, the ones that I usually get, are they going to be fit my foot the way that I want? Buying shoes is a big, minor life decision.
John Shull 54:04
I mean, sure, I, you know, oh,
Nick VinZant 54:06
sorry, they're
John Shull 54:07
perfect feat. Oh, yeah, my number three minor life decision, like, where do I stop? When do I stop? To get gas? Do I let it go all the way down, you know, to empty? Do I get to a quarter of a tank? You know, things like that? Oh, I used
Nick VinZant 54:24
to let it go all the way down to see, like, how much I was getting out of a tank. But now that I live in Seattle and I'm paranoid about the big earthquake that's going to hit, I don't let it go below half.
John Shull 54:37
Are they suspecting a major to
Nick VinZant 54:40
hit? Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be like the biggest natural disaster of all time. Oh, well, that's depressing.
John Shull 54:47
Well, regardless, living in Michigan, where it's winter six months out of the year, yeah, I, I don't want to be pumping gas when it's negative 10 outside. So it all, it all goes like you have to think. About it, which is just annoying to me. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 55:02
I don't let it go past half a tank. But I'm also a man. I'm not worried about saying outside the cold your fingers. What's your number three? You look toesy. Wozies gonna be little chewy.
John Shull 55:16
Stop. Stop listening to you. Stop listening. My
Nick VinZant 55:20
number three is any kind of maintenance decision, like, where are you going to get your oil changed? What plumber Are you going to get? What kind of handy man? Those kind of things that you're just like, oh, it's going to be a pain in the ass. I got to make sure I get the right one. And I really don't know who's right. So
John Shull 55:36
that's kind of similar to my number two, which is like, having to deal with appointments or calling, you know, bills or like, you know, getting rid of cable, like just, just phone calls and daily nuances that you know should be simple that are going to end up costing you two to three hours. My
Nick VinZant 55:55
number two is what to eat. Okay, what am I going to eat that day? What am I going to eat? For this, what am I going to eat? And it obviously escalates to the highest level of frustration. And when you're deciding what restaurant to go out to,
John Shull 56:09
well, I mean, I guess I'll just throw it out there, that's my number one. Far and Away is, is what to eat. You know where to eat. You know how many meals a day if we're trying to diet and eat well, like, you know, it's just, oh my god, it's, it's fresh and, God forbid, like it's dinner time, and no one wants to make a decision like, that can ruin that? Can ruin weeks that can ruin weeks, right? There
Nick VinZant 56:34
it can you, can. You're gonna hear about it, right? Like, if you don't eat the food that you want to eat, that's why most of my family, my wife and I eat totally separate dinners.
John Shull 56:44
So why you had Taco Bell the other night? I didn't believe you till you sent me that photo, and then I was like, okay,
Nick VinZant 56:50
all right, yeah, I had four bean and cheese burritos and two tacos. It was a good day. It was a bad next day, but it was a good day that day. My number one may be a personal thing, but it's easily the most difficult minor life decision that I have to make, and that's when to leave for the airport. I never know when to leave for the airport, both in terms of like if you're flying out or if you're gonna pick somebody else up. I just never know when there's and you never time it right. Like, I don't think that I have ever correctly timed the decision about when to leave for the airport.
John Shull 57:30
So I on my honorable mention I have, like when to get ready for a ride. Share, you know, like you, when do you go outside? Or, you know, whatever, which is similar. I am, admittedly, one of those people, though, that's I will get to an airport three hours early, if I have to, like, I will get there. No, it might be different with children. I've never flown with my children. I would imagine we'd probably be running late. But wait, yeah, that would be early by yourself. Oh, yeah. I mean, okay,
Nick VinZant 58:00
you have a one o'clock flight. The flight is leaving at one o'clock and is gonna board 45 minutes in advance. It used to be 30, but now it's 45 so they're gonna board at 1215, what time are you making sure you arrive at the airport?
Unknown Speaker 58:14
You're by yourself. I mean, I
Nick VinZant 58:17
be honest. Don't try to cheat it
John Shull 58:19
11, at least by 11, if not 1030
Nick VinZant 58:22
oh, wait a minute. Okay, 1030 is ridiculous. 1030 you're getting a little bit paranoid there. 11, I can give you,
John Shull 58:29
well, I mean, at least if you get there early and you get through security, which, once again, I haven't been in an airport and flown in in eight years, so I don't know, but I feel like they've streamlined it. But say, say you get hung up, right? I don't want to have the worries of, like, waiting in a line. I did that one time in Orlando, and I don't know if I've ever been on edge more like, am I going to make it? But then you find out they're just, they'll just reschedule you. Anyways, it's not that big of a deal.
Nick VinZant 59:01
Oh, I've never missed a flight. Have you ever missed one? Oh, no, I've
John Shull 59:04
always been early, but my wife has missed several, and apparently it's not that big of a deal. So no,
Nick VinZant 59:10
it's probably not that big of a deal. But if you have like other things, yeah, I would, God, I would probably get there. If the boarding was 1215 if I'm by myself, I might push it till 1115 I might push it till 1115 but my thing is, is, like, it's not like you're doing something besides, then, like you're just sitting around wherever you are, being anxious about how you should have left for the airport already. Like, to me, it doesn't make a difference if you're waiting at your hotel or if you're waiting at the airport. Like, why not wait at the place with less stress?
John Shull 59:40
Well, that's the thing to me, is I've always been one of those people, whether it's a flight or if there's a hard deadline for something, I'd rather just get it out of the way. Like I don't want to be sitting somewhere thinking about it, like I can just be wherever I need to be and be prepared or ready for whatever. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 59:58
I have a relative. That will wait till the last second. And I'm always like, what were you doing, though, like, what were you doing? It's not like, like, Hey, maybe I could get in this awesome mountain bike ride, or I wanted to go see this festival. No, you're just like, I was just at my house. But why? Never stressed at your house? I don't understand. Okay, I don't have anything honorable mention because it's my birthday and I'm gonna go do other stuff. Oh, okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate. It really helps us out and let us know what you think are the hardest minor life decisions, the things where this isn't gonna change my whole life, and maybe not even gonna really change my day, but I just can't make this decision. I think a lot of people are gonna say it's what to eat. I just struggle a lot with when to leave, to go to the airport.