Interview with Ben Johns: Professional Pickleball Player
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode pickleball and difficult foods
Ben Johns 0:20
Pickleball is very much strategic choosing what to hit the correct shot at the right time is almost entirely what sports about, is it hard to be number one, I think it's a little bit hard in that you're always being pursued, like you don't really have affordance to go as a participation sport as the number of people that play it has a scary amount of potential. So imagine that bounces in there and you're at the other kitchen line. So I'm making contact with the ball 10 feet away from you, and I'm hitting it 50 miles an hour at you. I mean, in baseball, that's equivalent to a 300 mile per hour fastball.
Nick VinZant 0:54
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it, it really helps us out. So when we first started talking about this, I thought it was going to be a pipe dream that like oh, yeah, we might do it. But no, it looks like we're actually going to be able to set up an interactive voicemail system that will let you guys the listeners be a much bigger part of this show. And we'll probably be doing that Fingers crossed. No, we're gonna do it by the end of this month, meaning July. So our first guest is the best player at a sport that is just skyrocketing in popularity. And when I say the best, he has been ranked number one in the world, in singles, doubles, mixed doubles. You name it, he's pretty much the best in the world. And the best ever add it right now. This is professional pickleball player, Ben John's. So have have I not been paying attention? Or did pickleball suddenly become really popular?
Ben Johns 2:07
Yeah, that's exactly how it went, I'd say. Back in 2019 2018, it started to see definitely a lot of growth. And but people still hadn't really heard of it. And then suddenly, between 2020 and 2021, it kind of became the cool thing to do. It's just kind of a sport for everybody. So yeah, it really has taken over a lot of people.
Nick VinZant 2:27
So I mean, when I have thought of it before, and this is probably just because I have relatives who live there. But like I thought of it as like, alright, this is the 67 year old retirees in Arizona who are doing this. But is it everybody really like? Is it younger people or is it just kind of getting more popular amongst a certain crowd?
Ben Johns 2:44
It caught on with older people first because it has something very attractive. And that's the it's very easy to begin to play. Even if you know you're mobilities limited or whatever. So when people kind of gravitated to it in that sense, it's also pretty social, which they seem to like it at that age. But then people kind of start to realize, hey, this isn't just for for old people, it's actually just a ball for anybody to play. And the same things apply to the old people. It's like you don't need to be athletic and play. Even though you can also be super athletic and have a really good time with it. As far as who plays it. Now, in some cities, I see it as kind of the one of the cool hipster things to do almost like, Oh, you don't play pickleball yet? What are you doing? Definitely kind of a young meetup thing just just for fun.
Nick VinZant 3:27
Is this going to be you know, the trend sport for a little while? Or do you think that this is going to continue to keep going?
Ben Johns 3:33
You know? That's a good question. You know, I feel like a lot of people that play it, because of how they're addicted to it, or how enthusiastic they are about it. They're very bullish on it, or they're optimistic. And from my point of view, I'd say, you never really can tell that with anything like this. Like, there's just too many factors that go into it, you can't predict stuff. But what I will say is, I've been around a lot of sports for a while since I was a kid. And I've never really seen a sport like pickleball as far as how people really get addicted to it one like they just don't want to stop playing. And also just that it covers such a wide demographic of people. So I think it has that going for it and other things fall into place correctly, then it could continue to do very
Nick VinZant 4:20
well. So did you get in before the before the craze or did you get swept up in it?
Ben Johns 4:25
Yeah, so I started really, it's beginning of growth, in my opinion, and that was early 2016. And that was kind of marked by some first initial big professional tournaments. So the very first US Open offer pickleball was held in early 2016. And that was my first tournament. So I got into the competitive scene right when it was growing, and I'd say gotten bigger with the public like where everyone is more aware of it more like 2020 Basically,
Nick VinZant 4:56
from what I buy my you know, three second Google Search You're basically the best player ever. Number one, singles, doubles. Right against pets, like every single type of pickleball competition, your number one.
Ben Johns 5:10
Yeah. So how we distinguish it is we play doubles, singles and mixed doubles satisfying. Girl guy doubles, basically. So there's three divisions. And yeah, I've been top ranked in all three of them for about about three years now, which is kind of the longest it's been. But I mean, what I will say is, it's very hard to say like, best ever, when you know, the sport itself as a professional sport is so young. So in a very short span, I may be the best. But that would be surprising to maintain that for a very long time to the future.
Nick VinZant 5:46
That's what I was wondering about it, like the pros who are in it, the pros who are like yourself, like the people who are really good. Whenever you have a young sport, are they really? Are they still going to be really good? 10 years from now? Right? Like I think of like George Mikan, who was a fantastic basketball player, but would he be in the NBA now? You know what I mean? So do you think that, like, are the pros now? Where is the sport? And since like, oh, they'd still be good later? Or is it such in its infancy that like, man, if you're just pretty good? You're going to be a pro question.
Ben Johns 6:22
Yeah, it's definitely very unpredictable. How I think of it now is there was kind of a that not really a turning point, but an inflection point in pickleball, where it started to rise very rapidly in terms level. And I'd say five years ago, compared to now is going to be more dramatic than five years into the future. It doesn't grow, you know, linearly or anything close. It's more a grows and jumps. The do I think the players will still be drastically different in five to 10 years. Absolutely. And I think players that are getting out can adapt to those times. Yes. But just like any sport, I think the further on you get, the better the players get. That's just the natural course the sports, people figure them out, they get better, they get more athletic, all those things. And I'd say right now Pickleball is the best players are generally the ones that are adapting the most quickly. Why are
Nick VinZant 7:18
you good at it? Like, is there something physical and that like you are the perfect size for a pickleball? Player? You've got the fastest? Like, what about you makes you good at it?
Ben Johns 7:30
Yeah, so right now, pretty much all the really good professional players are former tennis players, they're former D one tennis players, we have former professional tennis players like they were very good tennis players. And that's the background that helps a lot. I had not that high of a tennis background, but considerably high, along with a considerably high table tennis background. And that's another good background score for it. So the blend of the two definitely helped in terms of just a lot of the skills and not many people have that blend of a high level of those two sports, where most are operating on one. So two definitely helps me a lot. And then the other thing is kind of before when I said it's it's about experimentation. To be at the top, you need to keep getting better because everybody is. So you're really kind of experimenting and figuring out new things and learning from other really good players at the same time. Maintaining what you do have
Nick VinZant 8:25
to get bored being number one. Is it harder to be like is it harder to be? Is it harder to get to being number one or is it harder to stay number one
Ben Johns 8:39
another good question. Yeah, it's a little bit of both. You know, a lot of people say or at least something I like to say it's pressure is a privilege and it's definitely a privilege to be where I am I definitely enjoyed a lot and it's fun to strive and still try to get better and all that is a hard to be number one. I think it's a little bit hard in net, you're always being pursued like you don't really have upwards to go. That's also a little bit of mindset, you know, there's certainly still goals you can pursue and there's certainly still a lot of improvement to be made as a player. So it's not really necessarily lack of motivation, but it's can be a difficult spot to be in at times because there's a lot expected of you at all times.
Nick VinZant 9:20
You're getting everybody's best day all the time. Yeah, hi,
Ben Johns 9:24
I have a target. I have a target on my back
Nick VinZant 9:28
is like how is it different from other Racquet Sports right and I can think of like tennis, badminton. Ping pong racquet ball, like how is it different from those are
Ben Johns 9:40
pretty much everyone that plays thinks it's a blend of some of those and it is it's totally a blend of racquet sports. So for instance like size, it's the same size court as a badminton court, but the net is lower than badminton and obviously using different equipment. A wiffle ball is the ball that we use. So that bounces a lot lower than a tennis ball, you can't impart as much spin on it. The paddle is it doesn't have strings. So the paddle is more like a table tennis paddle than it is a tennis racket. And it's in between the legs of the TOC. It's a blend of that right there. And those three are the biggest blend. I think any of the other racquet sports I barely know like squash, racquetball paddle all those they have walls that you play off of. And we don't have that in pickleball. So I'd say it's most similar to badminton, table tennis and tennis,
Nick VinZant 10:29
what's the best part of the game to be good at, like serving, returning, if somebody was going to be good at this aspect, like, oh, the guy who's good at this is going to be really good.
Ben Johns 10:41
So it's actually it's a cool sport in that in contrast, something like tennis at a very high level, at least, the surf doesn't matter. We surf below our waist underhand, basically. So it's not a very big impact, like tennis is, you know, it's a huge impact of your surf. It's also difficult for players that are just learning the game. So it's kind of a detriment to the sport, in my opinion. So think about doesn't have that, as far as your question goes. Pickleball is very much strategic, which is another reason people like it a lot. It doesn't really matter how good of an athlete you are, like, it definitely helps don't get me wrong, like coordination and coordination, you have to have some of that, obviously. But the point is a somebody that is a worst athlete than you can easily be by doing the right things strategically. And that comes back to shot selection, just choosing what to hit the correct shot at the right time, is almost entirely with sports about plus a little bit of conversion, of course. And people find that frustrating, you know, like tennis players that are very good will lose two people to play pickleball, even though they look like complete non athletes, and it's frustrating, and you want to keep playing in order to get better, because you don't understand why you're not good. So you can put up, you know, an NBA or NFL athlete, and they feel like they should be good on the court. And they're just not, not yet at least. So that's why I think they like playing it a lot. And that's why it's very interesting. That's also why it's a big sport, among other professional athletes. There's a lot of NFL NBA players that play that I know, and quite quite a few other random people.
Nick VinZant 12:10
So it's an athletic sport that you don't actually have to be athletic to play.
Ben Johns 12:15
Exactly. You can be as athletic as you want, there's some moves you can make in it that are very athletic, but you don't have to be in order to be good.
Nick VinZant 12:23
So then, is it? Is it strategy? Are you beating somebody with the strategy? Like, I'm gonna go left corner, work in left corner and then go right corner? Or is it like placement? Like you got to be able to hit the ball? Right to this low case? both?
Ben Johns 12:38
It's both it's definitely both. Yeah, absolutely. If you choose the right shot, you're gonna find your placement is naturally a lot better, because you chose the right shot. So it's kind of they go hand in hand, for sure. And there's some people that can, you know, get over those obstacles with pure athleticism. And it's just that disparity between the two, how much one affects the other, it's a lot less high in pickleball than it is in most other sports. For instance, you can now athlete so many in basketball a lot easier than you can our athletes. And
Nick VinZant 13:09
that makes sense, right? Because I played like sports against my dad when I was a teenager. And like basketball, well, I just had to jump. But in racquetball, like, he would just work me by like, I'm gonna put it in this corner, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Like financially, is pickleball at the place right now where like, you can be a pro pickleball player and just be a pro pickleball player.
Ben Johns 13:34
Yeah, so that's, that's been definitely a very recent thing. In the past two to three years, it's become a lot more viable to that. So myself along with, I'd say, I don't know. 10 other guys 10 other girls are at the top enough to make, you know, a decent wage to very decent with nothing but playing pickleball. So yeah, I mean, that's what I do. And that's what some other people do. But it's obviously not as big of a player pool as say tennis. We have the top 200 players doing just fine.
Nick VinZant 14:01
And we talk in five figures, six people hitting sevens.
Ben Johns 14:07
Yeah, so that would be more like massively based on where you're ranked. And it's really just a handful of players. They're getting paid well. Your your mid to very top players can be making six and the top of the top could be making seven
Nick VinZant 14:23
now. And it's a sport you can play for a long time. Right? Could like somebody be like, old man, Ben John's coming in. He's 55 and still working people.
Ben Johns 14:35
Yes and no. So right now, the best older player when we consider older is the number two player in doubles. And he's 44 which is he's an extreme outlier. There's not really almost anybody else like him. Almost all the other pros are below 35. That he's he's very good at especially for his age. So right now you can see that a little bit and the more players that come in, the less we're seeing it so I'd say within probably five years, you're not really gonna see anybody really competing at a high level over 35 Unless they're just absolute freaks like, you have Djokovic, and Nadal and Federer. And
Nick VinZant 15:11
if you're going to be athletic in this sport, is it better to be like strength power, your top two
Ben Johns 15:17
or agility just moving quickly and covering a lot of cord in a very quick way. And quick hands. So hands speed helps a lot. And that's not really something you train as much as you have. Which just doesn't really increase that much via training.
Nick VinZant 15:34
Now, are you big for pickleball? Player? Wikipedia said six one is that that's about the size you want to be, are the best people smaller, bigger.
Ben Johns 15:44
Because we don't have a huge sample size of players, you know, there's a lot of other skills that go into it. So you can't really say this is the best height. And I mean, you came into it in tennis yet. But it definitely ranges from I'd say the majority are between five, nine and six, four. To me, I'd say height helps. So I think you kind of want to be optimally anywhere between six and six, four,
Nick VinZant 16:11
we'll go into this a little bit earlier than we usually do. Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Sure. Let's go for it. Would pickleball be a cooler sport, if it wasn't called pickleball?
Ben Johns 16:24
I think it would be a lot easier to convince people to play the sport if it wasn't such a silly name. But the reality is there's too much based around and out to ever change that now. So it's stuck with that name. But yes, it would be I wouldn't say necessarily cooler, but it would be a lot easier to get people on board more quickly.
Nick VinZant 16:42
Is it better to have a really good forehand or a really good backhand?
Ben Johns 16:47
Yeah, definitely varies player to player, but you can do more with your forehand. Generally, it just generates more power, it's got more reach. So if you can take one or the other healthy and good for him,
Nick VinZant 16:56
everybody's probably got a good forehand. But are there a lot of people who really have a good backhand?
Ben Johns 17:02
I would say yeah, you're right in that there's more players for the good forehand and a good backhand but it's not that desperate, like as disparate as you think there's definitely some some very good backends out there. Yeah, largely depends on the player just because how the paddle mechanics work. It's there's not a huge disparity between one and the other.
Nick VinZant 17:20
Now, do you put spin on it? Are you just you're hitting it back?
Ben Johns 17:23
Yeah, yeah. So there's there's definitely all kinds of spins, side spin topspin, backspin slice rolls, there's their spin at all times, it doesn't look like table tennis because there's a limit to the friction you can have on a on a pickleball paddle. So like table tennis, they use advanced rubbers to grip the ball like severely. That's why the ball ends like it does. We have a limit on on the basically the grip on the paddle so it doesn't grip the ball nearly as much as tennis strings or confidents battle. So there's a lot less of a spin influence, but it's still very important.
Nick VinZant 17:53
Does it have a ceiling though, in your opinion? Right? Like I understand that, yes. Pickleball can get bigger. Clearly, clearly people enjoy it. But can it be? Right? Like is the goal of pickleball? Like, we're going to take over and push hockey out the way? Or do you think that it's always going to be maybe like the biggest of the secondary kind of sports?
Ben Johns 18:16
Yeah, so I mean, it depends on you know, what, how you tear sports, you know, how big can something get? I'd say personally, this is just my opinion, and it could be completely wrong. Because nobody can really and Hispanic sports gonna continue to grow. But I would say it is not going to be a spectator sport like your your NFL is your NBAs MLBs as your tier ones. It's not even gonna be a spectator sport like your tier twos, like hockey here, or whatever. It's good for spectating. But it's not amazing. It's not like, it's not as big of a chord as tennis, you can't have a stadium as big and make it look as good. So I think there's a bit of an issue mechanically with the sport there. However, I'd say, as a participation sport as the number of people that play it has a scary amount of potential like it's as playable as any sport.
Nick VinZant 19:06
No, that makes sense, right? Like, just because of the logistics of it. You can't fill an arena of people watching a pickleball. But if you sell it to TV, well, what does it matter? Like TV is kind of where most of the money is made anyway. Sure. Yeah.
Ben Johns 19:19
I mean, it can still it can still do well. Yeah, it can still be well, like tennis does, it would be a smaller court. So probably a little bit of a smaller stadium. So that's where I'd see it peaking, right, like say a little bit below tennis, in terms of viewership, but in terms of participation, I would expect it to exceed tennis.
Nick VinZant 19:35
So how does your older brother feel about you being better than him?
Ben Johns 19:42
So my brother, six years older than me, he played professional tennis, and we played every sport together basically growing up, and he was always better because he was older. But I got into pickleball before him two years before him and once he was done with professional tennis, I Got into play pickleball and basically from the start once he decided, hey actually want to be really good at this and play, play the sport. We basically trained him and crafted him into a player. That would be my my doubles partner. So we always had the goal of playing doubles together as soon as he decided to get good. So no, he doesn't mind me being better than him because he's got the best partner you could ask for, I guess.
Nick VinZant 20:24
But you know how brothers are man? I got brothers and sisters. There's a little bit like, I'm happy for Ben. I'm gonna beat Ben. Yeah, no, definitely.
Ben Johns 20:38
He's played me many times before and likely is mostly on the same side of the net these days. But he has never been I'm sure he would like to
Nick VinZant 20:46
favorite place to play.
Ben Johns 20:48
I'll give you a variety answers here. So I'd say my favorite place, location venue, tournament wise is San Clemente California. PGA tour runs a tournament there, that's just gorgeous location, really well run the crowds. Amazing. So that's like my favorite tournament to play, especially locations. Great. So for the business, I mentioned, we're taking them on trips we played in Ecuador, and that probably had the best view I've ever seen while playing it was just silly. And let's see, played in Hawaii. And that was pretty, very nice, too. As far as general location, it wasn't the view is just like the whole environment. So those are my three,
Nick VinZant 21:31
who's who's kind of in your rear view, like, who's the player who's coming up? And like, Oh, I gotta watch this person, because they could they could take the title. Yeah,
Ben Johns 21:41
I wouldn't say there's a define one person, especially because we have multiple divisions. So there's, there's different people that are good at different things, mixed doubles, doubles, singles. So I don't really have a specific person in mind. And honestly, I'd be more wary of the people I don't I'm not yet aware of than anybody specific now. Because we get new players all the time that are super talented and want to play. And there's only there's only more than coming, right? So I have a vision in my mind of what the ultimate athlete for pickleball would be. And that's the guy I'm wary of not not who we currently have.
Nick VinZant 22:16
I think this this audit this question is like from a 12 year old, I think, does it hurt when you get hit with the pickleball?
Ben Johns 22:24
That's a legitimate question. That's very legitimate. It stinks. That's about it. There's a strategy and double sometimes we actually do try to hit each other in the body. Because you're so close to each other that it works out that way. And that's not against etiquette. That's just part of the game as long as you are aiming for the face. So yeah, It'll sting a little bit on the body might leave a little bit of a mark for a day. You won't want to be getting hit in the face, though. Yeah. How?
Nick VinZant 22:52
How fast? Like, has anybody ever like clocked it? Like how fast are you guys hitting the ball?
Ben Johns 22:57
Yeah, so usually, groundstrokes will be going maximum probably 50. And overhead is more in the 70 to 80 range
Nick VinZant 23:08
with a wiffle ball.
Ben Johns 23:10
Yeah, with a level ball pops off quick. It makes some powerful stuff. So yeah, I know, I've been clocked on overheads, but at like 70. And I'm sure some people can do it harder than I can. And yet, the biggest thing is not so much the speed is how close you are with your kitchen, the kitchen. The kitchen is the non volley zone. You're 14 feet away from each other minus however long your wingspan is. So that ball can be on you in a hurry.
Nick VinZant 23:35
Oh, there's an area light is the kitchen. It's right next to the net. You can't volley in that area.
Ben Johns 23:40
Yes, yes, exactly. So there's the net. And on each side, there's a seven foot area where you can't hit the ball out of the air while you're in there. So imagine that bounces in there and you're at the other kitchen line. So I'm making contact with the ball 10 feet away from you. And I'm hitting it 50 miles an hour at you. I mean, in baseball, that's equivalent to 300 mile an hour fastball.
Nick VinZant 24:01
That's damn, is that the kind of reflexes where like you're not even thinking it's just straight up reaction.
Ben Johns 24:09
Yeah, it's mostly reactions. But that is an extreme case. Like most people are not trying to tag you in the body from that close anyway. And if I didn't if I hit it, right, and if you didn't move before you saw me, like as soon as you saw me start the swing, like you tried to move as soon as I hit the ball, you have no prayer video, it won't happen. You're just you're gonna sit there and take it. But more normally it's traveling slower than that when you're getting volleys and you're able to react but it is it's reactions. You aren't really thinking that much.
Nick VinZant 24:38
Does being a professional pickleball player help you? And I think you know what they're talking about. I do.
Ben Johns 24:52
Yeah, that's that's a great question. I actually thought you were gonna ask that one before you said it. As soon as I saw your face today. I know what he's gonna ask. Right. So I was actually in School University of Maryland, the past five years. I graduated in May. And a lot of people would ask me like DD Use this. Is this like a pickup line at college at school? And it's not all right. I've never even tried to use it. I don't know how it would work, because I would just never bring that up. Just like Excuse me, miss. I don't know if you notice. I play pickleball this sport you've never heard of, and I'm really good. So yeah, I've never brought that up. So it doesn't help. I mean, maybe I'm sure it helps some people if you spin it the right way. I just have not tried.
Nick VinZant 25:37
What's the best pickleball trash talk? You're gonna trash talk to somebody? What do you what do you come in with?
Ben Johns 25:43
I'm known to be pretty silent on court. So I can't tell you that I have that much that are the guys that do. My personal favorite is more like rejection. So they say they try to attack you and you just hit a stiff counter. It's a clean winner off of their attack. Like it's a rebuttal like, you might get a finger a finger wag, like like a matumbo. And just like no, no, no can do that. Not over here.
Nick VinZant 26:09
I just the total shutdown.
Ben Johns 26:14
Yeah, my favorite guy that talks trash. One of his best slides, just something like, You can't do that. If you attack me, it's a winner. And then he's just like, can't do that. No, no, no.
Nick VinZant 26:28
That's crushing, right? There's nothing better than like giving somebody your best shot. And then you just nothing happens. You
Ben Johns 26:34
just like, that's the thing right there. Right? It's not about hitting a winner. It's about rejecting their winner and just turning them down to say, no, not over here.
Nick VinZant 26:42
You know, obviously, is there a huge difference in the paddles? Like, what are you looking for in a paddle? Yeah. So
Ben Johns 26:48
I mean, originally, the sport started out with wooden paddles. So it got a lot more advanced from there, let's say so yeah, these paddles reach prices up to like tennis rackets. Now they're like in the two hundreds sometimes at the very advanced pro level. So my sponsors here, you'll their former Table Tennis Company, and they got into pickleball recently because they saw the growth. So yeah, they're, they make some pretty advanced stuff. And obviously I endorsed them. So they're, they're the best guys. But yeah, there's lots of paddles out there. There's lots of technology for spin power, other stuff, different dimensions, it's all kind of up to you with what you want to play with based on the player you are.
Nick VinZant 27:26
You use a yellow pad or like, what is it? What are you looking for when you get one? Right? Like, oh, I want one that's like, what do you look
Ben Johns 27:33
for? Yeah, so I actually designed it with them. And just give it to me, like I actually decided with them. So it's a carbon fiber surface, which carbon fiber is the best surface material we use, because it grips the ball well, which you can of course spin with. And it's very stiff, not so stiff, we lose a lot of power. It's so that good power, but stiff enough to where when you miss it it like not in the sweet spot and on the center. It's not a super bad miss it so it's forgiving, basically. So it's forgiving. It's gotten in pop and it's got good spin. That's that's the basic, three things that you really
Nick VinZant 28:05
want. So, you know, we were talking kind of before we started recording, but you know, this business is pickleball. Really, it's that big that you can run a tour company like how does this work with with this, I found that amazing that like,
Ben Johns 28:20
yeah, it's one of my favorite things like within pickleball. It's such a, it was just an interesting hole in the market for us. So me. And a friend of mine started a business a couple years back, called up pickleball getaways. And we basically just take people on all inclusive vacations, either to resorts or touring around the country, with pickleball. So it turns out that because people get addicted to pickleball, they want to go on vacations, but they don't want to stop playing pickleball while they're doing it. So as I'm doing this interview, I'm actually in Croatia for a tour. I just finished one in Portugal, and that's a renewal of my summer. So we got 32 clients, each one Portugal here, previous week, 10 days, 10 days here in Croatia with a new 32. And I'm going back to Portugal for another 32 Because we feel the first one so easily. So yeah, basically, it's just we play pickleball in the morning with some instruction. And then we toured the country in the afternoon to evening, and some different hotels slash resorts. So it's kind of an upper scale, all inclusive vacation with the whole
Nick VinZant 29:21
Is there a country that's like, oh, man, they love them some pickleball
Ben Johns 29:27
Yeah, that's that's funny, because a lot of people actually ask, the only part you didn't really touch on is the international aspect, like is pickleball big elsewhere? And the answer is actually no, not at all that us is by far the biggest pickleball like they're fanatical about it. But they've never even heard of it and other places in the world like where we are. There's no pickleball players, there's no pickleball courts. So we have to use like temporary nets and temporary lines and stuff like that. And that's why like nobody else is doing anything. It's hard to do. You need the right surface you need to bring equipment set up the courts. So that's kind of why we're the only ones
Nick VinZant 29:58
or people in other countries that Look at it like, what are those guys doing?
Ben Johns 30:02
They're just walked by. And there's a couple days ago, I was laughing because in the space of like an hour, I bet like five people walked by, and we're just sitting with their cameras like, what are they doing? Like? These are just I mean, are they dumb Americans? Is this a made up game? Dude, should I know about this? They were obviously just absolutely confused by what was going on.
Nick VinZant 30:24
That's pretty much all the questions I got, man. What's kind of coming up next for you? How can people kind of keep in touch with you? Yeah, so
Ben Johns 30:30
I got a packed schedule, usually about 20 tournaments a year, I got this vacation business, I got various other things. But I pretty much go almost entirely through Instagram, so And John's underscore PB and so people stay in touch. And I can update my tournaments there. And whatever else I'm up to. So it can really be anything at any given time of the year.
Nick VinZant 30:50
Cool. When is pickleball season? Like, when's the tournaments and all that stuff? I would think it was in the summer. Yeah. Last season. This
Ben Johns 30:57
is kind of year round. We don't like we have a pro tour. And they haven't really figured out yet how they want the season to go. There's not really a huge downtime. So my biggest downtime has been in the summer, actually. So I missed one tournament to be over here in Europe. But in June, July, we only had one tournament scheduled, whereas August onwards, I'll be playing two to three every month.
Nick VinZant 31:18
I want to thank Ben so much for joining us. If you want to connect with him. We have linked to him on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on Twitter, tick tock and Instagram. And we've also included his information in the episode description. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of the show. When's the last time somebody gave you a good talking to like, sets you straight in life?
Unknown Speaker 31:46
It's been a while I don't remember the last time I was given like a good talking to I do listen to a an inspirational speaker, you know, like on YouTube from time to time. That's the last time I remember thinking to myself, like, this guy's talking at me like he's talking to me.
Nick VinZant 32:06
The last time you got to good talking to you. What was it about
Unknown Speaker 32:09
probably, in my early 20s, with my father when he was and this is the last one I really remember. And basically, basically, he was just telling me, I mean, I was going out a lot, probably four to five times a week and just getting hammered drunk every time. And he kind of just pulled me aside as I was going to head out and just was like, listen, you're not being very smart right now. And fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life. And I'll never forget, it wasn't really a talking to but that one sentence. I've just never forgotten it.
Nick VinZant 32:42
Do you feel like you learned anything? No, I
Unknown Speaker 32:44
actually think it's worse. No. Yeah, I mean, looking back on it. I was I was reckless. I was young, blah, blah, blah. You know, he probably didn't present it to the right way. Probably could have been a little nicer, a little more calmer about it. But you know, I still remember it. Obviously.
Nick VinZant 33:04
I got one this weekend, who got to talking to you from the white. She was looking at me and she's like, Listen, I'm gonna tell you this right now. You're getting fat.
Unknown Speaker 33:15
You guys are so brutal. Man. You're so brutal over and then came
Nick VinZant 33:18
straight out? Well, well, the thing is, is that the night before I had had, like, look, we were we were engaging in edibles and alcohol. And I was like, I think we need to give each other more talking to us, right? Like we got to hold each other accountable about stuff that we want to do, because we made these lists about stuff that we want to do and like, You got to hold me accountable. And then the next day, she's like, you're getting fat.
Unknown Speaker 33:42
So is this one of those moments where the night before you were you were just bullshitting and then the next morning, she was like, you're getting fat and your eyebrows are stupid, and your fingernails are too long?
Nick VinZant 33:55
No, it was just like, you gotta been constructed criticism, right? And you got to come at people and she was like, you're getting fat. Your gut is getting a little bit out of hand. Like I can see it too much. And it's not acceptable. And I was like, okay, still stings as an adult. Yeah. Especially when you need when you need it. You're like, Ah, fuck, man.
Unknown Speaker 34:14
I well, I mean, for a guy always a buck 50 I think your wife should come see somebody that's 300 pounds and say that, but, man, I'm sorry. I you know, I've never felt bad for you. I kind of feel bad for you right now.
Nick VinZant 34:29
Yeah, but I needed it. Right? Like it was good for me. So I'm 180 pounds, but I don't carry weight. Well, like I'm somebody that if I get a little bit out of control, like Oh, my body magnifies whatever shape that I'm in.
Unknown Speaker 34:46
She might have been a little overboard them and that can really mess somebody up when you call somebody just outwardly fat or tell them they're,
Nick VinZant 34:53
they're kinda that's not what she said. That's what I heard. Right? Like, I'm not one of those people. Like it doesn't matter. Have you massaged the language a little bit? I know what you really say it.
Unknown Speaker 35:03
It took me it took me until about six months ago to realize that I probably should not have worn shoes medium clothes the in my entire life. I tried on a shirt that was, you know, a couple sizes too big. And I was like, Man, this is actually quite comfortable. So, anyways, it's
Nick VinZant 35:20
you can't go down that road though, man because I do that with pants. And the next thing you know, you're rockin like 40 fives and you look ridiculous. Like you. You can't go down the comfort road too early in life. Because there's no common back once you start going down that comfort road. I gotta
Unknown Speaker 35:38
tell you, I I'm in a wedding coming up this weekend. Actually, and, you know, dress pants are always, you know, four to six inches bigger usually? Oh, no, I don't actually well, because because they do the actual waist right? They do it like above your, your your belly fat, like kind of just south of your belly button. And when I when I said a
Nick VinZant 36:03
minute, wait a minute, are you hitching them up? Are you pushing them down? Like which direction are you already going? And you're going to be an old man because there's either going where people have their pants to high or they're starting to push them down a little bit where like, Look, I know that your belt buckle is just about half an inch above where your private parts are. You're not fooling anybody with that.
Unknown Speaker 36:24
Well are you doing I mean, I usually wear my I'm gonna wear my my jeans on my waist, right? But for dress pants, for some reason, they always measure me probably where they measure every man on your actual waist, which is just south of your belly button there. But every time I see it, it just reminds me that I am not a small man.
Nick VinZant 36:48
Okay, you ready for shout outs?
Unknown Speaker 36:51
What's going on? What is it? 36 I've
Nick VinZant 36:59
lost. I've lost track. Everybody's just waiting for it to stop.
Unknown Speaker 37:02
I don't think so. No one's really complained. At least not to me. All right, Cameron bars appreciate you Ronald Miranda. Austin Rogers, Mildred Toray Phil minor. Below era Bochy, Sean Kelly and Shawn Masterson to Sean's back to back there. Lucas Vega and Clint Wim sedie. Come on down.
Nick VinZant 37:28
Are the most other Shawn spelled the same way? Are they spelled differently? They are they're
Unknown Speaker 37:32
both spelled s e a n which is what caught my eye.
Nick VinZant 37:37
I always think of Shawn sh a wn is the main spelling of Shawn that I think of.
Unknown Speaker 37:42
Yeah, I would agree with that. And then s Haun is also a subset.
Nick VinZant 37:49
Oh, I don't know if I was gonna rank my Shawn spelling's I would go sh a wn s EAN and then sh. Au N.
Unknown Speaker 37:58
Yeah, I agree with you on that top three.
Nick VinZant 38:01
Okay. All right. It's your it's your time to shine my excited are you how much you've been thinking about it for a month? I guarantee he's been thinking about it. I gotta tell you
Unknown Speaker 38:10
it's so weird because now when I like order candles, I think about ordering them obviously. But with the thought of bringing them up possibly on this podcast, so this one's This one's pretty basic.
Nick VinZant 38:23
Can we introduce it? Are you just gonna for people who don't know what's going on like, Oh, you gotta get theme music or sorry
Unknown Speaker 38:28
I just get so excited man this is Alright it's
Nick VinZant 38:30
time for candle of the month with the outlaw candle connoisseur himself.
Unknown Speaker 38:36
What's your candle? I can't even intro it and keep a can't believe it's a serious thing. I can't either but it's kind of taken off alright so just rising Lee Yeah, so this one there's a sale going on right now head over to Bath and Bodyworks I purchased two of these because I'm I'm just a fan. Smelt this at a friend's house Believe it or not. But it is passion fruit in banana flour to three week candle like I said it's on sale. I don't know if it's gonna be on sale throughout the week, but you can get it right now half off. Bath and Bodyworks they have a lot of other great sense to but I'll I'll just stop at that one. But there's there's tons of Grayson's out there.
Nick VinZant 39:18
So if you smelled it at a friend's house, did you then ask them what kind of candle that is?
Unknown Speaker 39:23
Oh god. Yeah, I I mean, I was I was like, the awkward hover too. I'm like, this is you know that, like no one's around me. You know? Finally someone comes over and they're like, oh, what what do you what? What you're doing in a separate room just smelling the candle. I'm like, I love candles. Tell me about this candle. So
Nick VinZant 39:43
wait a minute. You just went into the room all by yourself and somebody's house smelling candles?
Unknown Speaker 39:49
Well I've no i We know them. It's not like it's you know, it's not like I was invited.
Nick VinZant 39:53
Oh, wait a minute, who's the main friend who's the first friend? Are you the friend with the guy or is your wife more the friend with the girl
Unknown Speaker 40:00
My wife is friends with the with the girl. However, like we know the family, it's not like it's not like, she's friends with the girl or the woman and I'm just there, you know? Like it's like I'm just there kind of randomly.
Nick VinZant 40:13
Does this person have a man? Significant Other in their life?
Unknown Speaker 40:17
Yes, but But he was not at the time.
Nick VinZant 40:21
So you're in another so you're the only guy there at the party. I want to know her. You're going through why isn't it weird? You're going through another woman's house who your wife is friends with? Your smell and things in the room and stuff? She probably thinks you're looking at her underwear. No, man, we're
Unknown Speaker 40:38
just kids just come in from the outside. I walked in the house. I got the sense. I gotta smell like oh, let me let me you know, maybe the candle is right around the corner. So I I walked down the hallway, kind of into a family room area. There's the candle wasn't like a wait a minute, like I was sniffing the underwear drawer.
Nick VinZant 40:58
But yeah, how many rooms away? Are you from the rest of the group? Are you in the room directly adjacent to the rest of the group? Are you two rooms past where everybody is?
Unknown Speaker 41:09
I mean, two, they were in the kitchen, which is like at the other end of the hallway. So technically, I was like five rooms away.
Nick VinZant 41:16
Yeah, you're snooping in the house. Looking for since
Unknown Speaker 41:19
I was that they went to take the kids to get a snack. I told them I was going to take our kids you know, stuff to the living room. And as I was walking in the living room was following the scent. And that's that's how it happened.
Nick VinZant 41:35
Did you go past the living room to get to the room?
Unknown Speaker 41:38
No if the candle was in the living room. Okay. Anyways, getting back to the candle the month it's packed. Once again, passion fruit and banana flour. It's a three wick candle from Bath and Bodyworks check it out. You won't be disappointed. Alright, let's see here. I've got a couple of bangers for you. What's more overrated waterslides or roller coasters?
Nick VinZant 42:05
Oh, roller roller coasters. Probably I think at least now in my life where I've hit an age where like, somebody explained this to me one time like something in your body in your inner ear starts to change and like you have a hard time with roller coasters and like getting dizzy much easier as you get older. And now I can't I can't even think of a roller coaster like I start to be like
Unknown Speaker 42:30
I haven't been on a roller coaster. It's gonna be 10 years next year. That's the last time I was on a roller coaster. It's been a while. So
Nick VinZant 42:36
it's probably been about the same for me. But I would say roller coasters are generally no a waterslide actually, is the more overrated because if you've been on one waterslide, you've basically been on all water slides.
Unknown Speaker 42:50
Yeah, water slides are, are very overrated. And they're just not. You know, you wait in a line on a hot summer day. You finally get up there, you get on it, and it's over. And it's not even though half the time you have to do most of the work, right? I mean, it's not. It's not a lot of fun.
Nick VinZant 43:06
No, it's very hard to get a good water slide. Like, oh, yeah, that yeah, that's a water slide. I've been on one before.
Unknown Speaker 43:14
Let's see, or would you rather know the exact date and time and you're gonna die, or just live life and when it happens, it happens.
Nick VinZant 43:23
Oh, just when it happens, it happens. Right? Because I think that even if you know the exact date and time that you're gonna die, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the exact date and time that you're going to be critically injured, or have your life changed forever. So like, All right, okay, cool. I'm not gonna die until Tuesday at nine o'clock. Well, that doesn't mean you're not gonna be critically injured Monday mornings.
Unknown Speaker 43:45
That's okay. You know what I was not thinking about the whole, you know, right. But
Nick VinZant 43:51
that's like one of those things that like you wish, like on a monkey palm or a genie, or whatever they call it. It's like a bad wish. And they're like, Well, I told you, you'd never die. But you're going to be a vegetable until for all of eternity.
Unknown Speaker 44:06
Let's see here. Once again, the world's pretty depressing, but when this episode comes out, it will obviously Fourth of July here in America will have passed. So I wanted to know, did you end up buying any fireworks? Did you Did you do anything to fun for the holiday?
Nick VinZant 44:22
I did. I bought the little popper fireworks that you can get like just about any single place that you just throw down in the middle of the room. Right? Like $2 You can't hurt anybody and I decided I was gonna bust those out during bath time, which was a mistake.
Unknown Speaker 44:38
Oh, man, talking about scaring the proverbial crap out of somebody.
Nick VinZant 44:44
Yeah, apparently if you throw 10 of them into a room while two children ages five and three are bathing and not expecting it. It's a slightly traumatizing experience in a small space. So maybe that was a poor decision making.
Unknown Speaker 44:56
Yeah, that's a decision. Yeah. That's not a good thing but I'm proud of I kind of want to give you a high five for that because that's a good dad move right there. Right? No
Nick VinZant 45:06
solid solid dabbing but bad parenting.
Unknown Speaker 45:09
Yeah, I could give you a talking too, but I'm not going to because I accidentally sprayed my kid in the face with a hose on on. You know, the hose nozzle was on Jet the other day and she walked right into it. So I can't really say anything.
Nick VinZant 45:25
I peed on my son's head once.
Unknown Speaker 45:29
I think I've heard rumblings of the story. But if you want to tell the floor is yours.
Nick VinZant 45:35
We were outside riding bikes and I went in into like the back of an area to pee outside, like all guys go and pee outside and he rode his bike up to me crashed his bike and fell directly into the stream. Like before I could stop like I look. Hey, and then he just crashed right into it.
Unknown Speaker 45:52
So did you keep going or did you stop immediately?
Nick VinZant 45:57
Well, I stopped immediately. I mean, he's my son. Like, I'm not not gonna just pee on mo dude's head but Well, I did laugh and he,
Unknown Speaker 46:05
you know, peed on my wife's face once. But, you know, that is what it is.
Nick VinZant 46:10
Let's just have no explanation and move into our top five. Let's do it. Okay, so our top five is top five hardest foods to eat. True. Number five.
Unknown Speaker 46:18
Spaghetti.
Nick VinZant 46:21
Are you serious?
Unknown Speaker 46:22
Yeah. Really? I mean, really? It could be any any any, like, pot, like, pasta, loaded with sauce type of thing. But yeah, it's, it's very delicate and very difficult to eat, especially spaghetti specifically because, you know, how do you roll it up? How to, you know, how do you get it on the fork, etc, etc. It's too, too much thinking to eat.
Nick VinZant 46:42
My number five is also spaghetti but not because it's necessarily hard to eat, but it's hard to eat without making a mess on yourself. Okay, that's really what's difficult. Like my list is based on things that you can eat in public and not look like you're some kind of bear going through a trash can.
Unknown Speaker 46:59
Well, that's, that's where you, my friend are mistaken. Because I look like a bear. And every time I'm in public, people think I'm just eating out of a trashcan. Once you number four ice cream cones, just they're just a pain in the ass. And no matter no matter how, how delicate, you are eating the cone, you're always going to bite it in the wrong place. And then you're going to have a couple of, you know, leaks or the ice cream is gonna start melting. It's just, it's difficult, man. It's not it's not fun. Half the time.
Nick VinZant 47:30
When I see a man eating ice cream out of a cup. I see a man who has given up on life. Like, I don't care. You as a man need to struggle through the cone. I don't care how big it is. How what the problem is, you as a man have to struggle through the act. My number four is a mango. Oh, just a pain in the ass.
Unknown Speaker 47:53
You know, I was gonna put on a pomegranate but I put that in my honorable mention. Mangoes a close second to me. But yeah, they're both pain in the ass things to eat,
Nick VinZant 48:04
and then difficult to eat. Alright, let's number three
Unknown Speaker 48:06
oysters. Okay, once again, it's a lot of work for very little reward. But yet, if I have the opportunity, I'm going to eat some oysters. So
Nick VinZant 48:15
we'll get let's let's, let's get to this later, because I have that a little bit higher in my list. My number three is wings. Okay, pain in the ass. And you can see a lot of people who don't eat wings. Well, you look at most wings. And there's a good amount of meat that's left there on that plate.
Unknown Speaker 48:32
I you know, kind of how we started the podcast. things, you know, talking to us I got to talking to is that when I was in college by a guy about how to properly eat chicken wings, and I've never forgotten it, and I still do it to this day. What's the proper way you have to create you have to crack I don't know what each bone is called. So I'm probably going to confuse people but you have to crack it at the top. And then you basically break it off into two bones. And then you can just suck the meat off each bone.
Nick VinZant 49:01
I usually struggle with like the top part of the chicken wing, right? Where there's usually like too much stuff on the drumstick. Like I could have done a better job there. But if it's the actual wing, I can clean that up pretty well. Okay, is it your number two are my number two my
Unknown Speaker 49:14
number two and it's the only time I've ever been eating where I've thrown an entire plate of food into a harbor. And it's because of crab legs.
Nick VinZant 49:24
Mm hmm. You threw it away.
Unknown Speaker 49:28
I was so frustrated because the party that I was with the people that I was with. Everyone kind of started making fun of me because and I'm not even sure I can properly describe it to you how to how to crack crab legs over the podcast, but I can tell you that from being ridiculed, and just pure embarrassment. And we were right next it was in Boston naturally. We were right next to the water. I just I dumped the whole thing into the water and just walked away. I was so upset and embarrassed and And it shouldn't be my number one, but I don't eat crab very often. Or crab legs. So that's why it's number two.
Nick VinZant 50:07
You handled that. Well. I did not how much? How much did you pay for it? I feel like I wouldn't do that only because I paid a lot
Unknown Speaker 50:14
of money. Oh, it was like $30 Yeah, it's probably 2030 bucks. I mean, it was a decent amount and there was fries and everything with it. And I kept the beer I walked away with the beer, but I dumped the food.
Nick VinZant 50:26
Once you get rid of the fries,
Unknown Speaker 50:29
I you know, I was I was on a different kind of stay. I'm sure the fish ate well, I'm sure they very well that that night, they're in the harbor.
Nick VinZant 50:34
My number two is corn on the cob slash popcorn. Because it's not necessarily hard to eat, but you get some of that stuff stuck in your teeth. Even flossing sometimes won't get it out. You get popcorn in the wrong spot in your teeth. And you've almost feel like you gotta go to the dentist to get that out.
Unknown Speaker 50:54
I mean, I can't argue with that. I've had moments eating popcorn where the kernel gets stuck in the back. And like the more times you bite down or put pressure on it, you can still feel it getting jammed deeper and deeper into the tooth. So yeah, you know, that's a good thought, actually. Yeah, too.
Nick VinZant 51:13
I've had some ones with popcorn where I've like flossed and still is in there and you've got to get like the little pick thing that they give you and you only keep for like a week after you go to the dentist to get it out for sure. Yeah. Cournot it's deadly. What's your number one?
Unknown Speaker 51:31
So, I'm gonna preface this I wanted to put sushi. But then I realized that sushi is a me problem, because I don't I'm not very good with chopsticks.
Nick VinZant 51:41
Well, you can just use your hands. Sure if you
Unknown Speaker 51:45
could also go the Neanderthal route as well. So my number one
Nick VinZant 51:49
you are going to tell you're going to tell me that if you're eating sushi at your house, you're using your chopsticks. You're not picking it up with your hand.
Unknown Speaker 51:57
I'm not no I'm using the chopsticks or I resort to a fork.
Nick VinZant 52:04
By yourself eating sushi in your house. You're not it's not going to pick it up with your fingers.
Unknown Speaker 52:08
No.
Nick VinZant 52:10
Why?
Unknown Speaker 52:12
I don't know. Because some I mean, a lot of times there's sauce on the top or there's, you know, it's I don't know, I guess I don't really have a reason I just I just I you know, I tried to fit in with the culture. I try to use chopsticks and I'm unsuccessful most times.
Nick VinZant 52:26
Okay, all right. No, I get that sometimes you can't let it win.
Unknown Speaker 52:29
So, my number one our hardshell tacos.
Nick VinZant 52:35
Interesting.
Unknown Speaker 52:39
Once again, it's kind of like the ice cream cone thing to me is, you know, no matter how you bite into a hardshell taco, you're gonna fuck it up. Because either the taco is gonna break entirely, or, or the fillings are gonna fall out. It's just it's so frustrating and difficult to eat.
Nick VinZant 52:57
I guess I don't really have very many hardshell tacos. I'm more of a softshell taco guy. So maybe that's why I haven't had much difficulty. My number one is seafood. And I'm including in that basically all seafood like you talked about like crab legs, lobster, mussels, oysters, all that stuff that is basically way more of a hassle to eat than it actually is enjoyable. Like the work to reward effort the return on investment it's just not there for me for any kind of seafood like that. It's not worth it.
Unknown Speaker 53:29
It isn't worth it. But it kind of is but it got to be in the right mood or I'm dumping you in the harbor just it's the way it is.
Nick VinZant 53:39
Even shrimp like it's just too much effort all the time. Like ah I got all this stuff I got to deal with pain in the ass. What's the one you're honorable mention?
Unknown Speaker 53:52
Let's see. Well I mean I talked about sushi what else here I think that's I think that's pretty much it for me. Chicken Wings also but yeah, I don't either. I guess well and some of the fruits I guess the pomegranates the mangoes but not a whole lot.
Nick VinZant 54:10
The only one that I could think of that we didn't really talk about well actually two nachos can be problematic especially if you're in a group and you don't exactly know who should be and how much and peanut butter peanut butter can get you in a little bit of trouble. I don't understand have water. Well, I mean you can get stuck in your throat a little bit peanut butter can be difficult.
Unknown Speaker 54:37
I don't really get the peanut butter the nachos. Even if you're not with a party they can get to be a little difficult just because of you know they get messy or if you're drunk or you have a Super Bowl party and make a bunch of uncooked pizzas and then serve them to people can turn out to be kind of nasty.
Nick VinZant 54:57
Ah, okay, that's gonna go ahead and do We're for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it. It really does help us out. And we're going to be I don't know how it's going to work exactly. But we're going to, we're going to debut this voicemail system this month. And I just I can't wait. I can't wait to start hearing from people. Because, listen, we appreciate the comments. We love interacting with you guys on social media, but I think making it much, much more a part of the show is something that that I think will be really cool. I'm looking forward to. So hope you join us and let us know what you think are some of the hardest foods to eat.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
