Adventure Filmmaker Elia Saikaly documents the highs and lows of the world’s tallest mountain. Carrying a camera to areas very few people have even seen. We talk summiting Everest, surviving avalanches and earthquakes, high-altitude cinematography, climbing K2 in winter, mountain photography and forgetting to hit record. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Ways to Say Hello.
Elia Saikaly: 02:06ish
Pointless: 55:27ish
Top 5: 01:17:06ish
https://eliasaikaly.com (Elia Saikaly Website)
https://www.instagram.com/eliasaikaly (Elia Saikaly Instagram)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaXi-ChY984NfjsWFXsjCUw (Elia Saikaly YouTube)
Interview with Elia Saikaly: Adventure Filmmaker
Nick VinZant 0:11
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. This is a really special episode. It's our 200th episode and coming up mountain stories. And the best ways to say hello.
Elia Saikaly 0:24
My entry point to high altitude mountaineering and being a filmmaker really started out with a chance phone call. And I got this question, which was, do you want to go to Everest? I need a camera guy. Right? So most people who are climbing that high end of the death zone, they're not being bothered with taking photographs, right? Like you're taking three or four breaths for every step that you take. There's an incredibly complex obstacle you face at the base of Everest called the Khumbu Icefall. You're playing Russian roulette with your life in there. It's known as the savage mountain. I mean, Ketu in comparison to Everest, I mean, Everest kind of feels like Disneyland, all of a sudden, it's like, I see the Dalai Lama, His Holiness, stepping towards me, and I'm just thinking, holy crap. It's the Dalai Lama. And I didn't record,
Nick VinZant 1:13
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or a review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. So our first guest is a climber, cinematographer, filmmaker, journalist, mountaineer and explorer who has survived everything from avalanches to earthquakes, while telling stories about some of the most dangerous places on earth. And what's really amazing is that he has done something that very few people have been able to do. He's gone to these places, all while carrying a camera showing people locations, and experiences that very few people have ever seen. This is documentary filmmaker, Elia Seikaly. How did you get started in this? Was it a love of the mountains? Was it a love of filmmaking? Like, what do you think was the main thing that brought you in?
Elia Saikaly 2:15
My entry point to high altitude mountaineering, and being a filmmaker really started out with a chance phone call? I was 26. At the time, I had already been in the industry for six or seven years, I got into working with cameras, because my dad was an enthusiast. So I grew up around cameras. And I wasn't quite feeling fulfilled in my life. And I just knew that there had to be something more for me. And I got this phone call, it was completely random. And a friend of mine called me up who's a producer? And I get this question, which was, do you want to go to Everest? I need a camera guy. And that was it. And I'm like, I don't even know where Everest is. I've barely traveled the world. I've I've never been to that part of the world specifically didn't know a thing about mountaineering. And I just said, Yes, it was this crazy idea. And I just thought, I mean, how could I possibly say No,
Nick VinZant 3:07
when you got to Everest and realized whatever's was were you like, oh, shit, or were you did you feel ready for it?
Elia Saikaly 3:15
I mean, I was clueless. I'm not gonna lie. I was completely clueless. I was really young, I was naive. I came from a sport background. So when you combine sort of the the Mental Toughness capacity that I had, at that time, with my bodybuilding background and sport in general, and then somebody who could handle the camera, it just seemed like an obvious fit to this person. So did I know what I was getting myself into? Absolutely not. It was it was very overwhelming, right? Everything from the environment, to the culture to the exposure of altitude, every single component of that was overwhelming to me at the time. And it's important to say as well that my assignment was not to climb Everest. My assignment was to film, a friend of mines journey, who was he was trying to be the oldest Canadian to summit Everest. So much. I was going to base camp, and then I trained his climbing partner who's Sherpa. So we trained him to use the camera and then the job was, you know, chumby, the local Nepalese climber He would climb to the summit was Shawn and film. And my job was film all the way to base camp.
Nick VinZant 4:22
When you look at a lot of films, you know about Everest and about climbing, are most of them filming right up to the top? Or are you one of the few people who did do that? Does that whatever the proper English would be in that regard?
Elia Saikaly 4:35
Yeah. I mean, I think it's fair to say that there are a select few of us who do it really well. Right. When you're talking about filming to the top of Everest, you're talking about working in the death zone. And the death zone is this environment above 8000 meters or 26,000 feet above sea level. So it's an area where you're literally deteriorating faster than you can recover. So you're dying, right? So most people Who are climbing that high end of the death zone, they're not being bothered with taking photographs, right? Like you're taking three or four breaths for every step that you take. So as a result of that, you know, you really need a certain kind of individual who can perform in those environments just as a climber, and then stack the complex task of filming, telling stories, worrying about sound and video and chasing talent in this environment that's incredibly hostile. It's a very difficult job to do. And there are not a lot of us that can do it.
Nick VinZant 5:33
Like when you do the filming, or you kind of scouting locations, like I gotta set my camera up here, I gotta be in this place. Hey, wait, right there, let me get this film, or you just gotta like, you take everything as it can go, and you get what you can and make the most out of it later.
Elia Saikaly 5:49
It all depends on where you are, right? So as you're tracking the base camp, that's, let's say, a 10 day journey. So it's very comfortable. It's control. There are beautiful trails and lodges, which are the equivalent of little hotels, so we call them tea houses. And you have a lot of support. And it's it's an environment that you control. So there's a lot that you can do from a storytelling standpoint. The second that you leave Basecamp, then the whole game changes. That's where the climb actually begins. And for the most part, people are not willing to stop for you. Right? So it's very complicated, and you really have to stay on the path because it's incredibly dangerous. There are crevices. There are hidden crevices under snow bridges, you don't see there's an incredibly complex obstacle you face at the base of Everest called the Khumbu Icefall, you're playing Russian roulette with your life in there, right? You're like an ant, navigating this ice fortress, and these giant size pieces of ice known as seracs. These things are collapsing, you've got crevices with ladders, you need to cross like it. It sounds insane, just saying it. But But that's, that's the environment that you work in. So this idea of plotting your shots? Yeah, yeah, definitely you do plot some shots out. But when it when it really comes down to it, you have to stay on the path, because it's incredibly dangerous. And when you get to the final summit day, you're really racing against the clock, nobody wants to stop for you, you race against the clock, because you get this tiny window, where you can sneak up to the summit, touch the top and get down as quick as possible. And so as a storyteller, and filmmaker, you're fighting against all those elements. And you really have to understand that environment, know yourself, well be super competent as an athlete and a creative and just work with all those obstacles stacked on top of you at the same time to make sure you get the shots you do as much as you can with quality. You don't put yourself in harm's way, you don't put anyone else in harm's way. And most importantly, you get yourself and then everyone on your team down safely.
Nick VinZant 7:56
Do you feel like you've captured Everest, in the sense that like, if I stuck at home, can't go there at all your videos and films and stories really shows people what it's like? Or is that just as close as we can get?
Elia Saikaly 8:15
I would like to think that I've done a pretty good job at showing the beauty of Everest in a way that we don't often see. I'm a person who becomes obsessed with the things that I love. And one of the things that I obsessed over was time lapse photography. So when most people are sleeping on Everest, for example, which is what you should be doing, because you have to recover. I'm out every night when the sky is clear. And I'm recording 10s of 1000s of images throughout the season to capture that magic of the night sky. So you don't see a lot of that online. I think I'm one of there are a number of us that do this. But I think that that aspect of my work really translates the beauty of that environment. The other piece, which which I think is incredibly rare. And you know, there's a video that it kind of blew my mind. I mean, it's got like 15 million views on it on YouTube. And I never expected it to go wildly viral like that. But I think it has because it's really showing the upper part of that mountain in a way that is just raw, real brutal, unfiltered, you know, there's no filmmaking, gimmickry. There's no music and voiceover and fast editing. It's just, you're there, you're hanging out on the side of the mountain, you're seeing people suffering, you know, dressed like Spaceman wearing oxygen masks, and my camera just sits there and observes this. So from that standpoint, I think I've done a fairly good job at really putting people there so they can feel what it's like.
Nick VinZant 9:45
I watched that and one of the things that kind of jumped out at me about it was the guy he's dressed in yellow shirt. There's a lot of people dressed now, but he's just he's just sitting there like and then he finds only takes the step is that like every single step there,
Elia Saikaly 10:03
that is the most extreme version of extreme altitude. And that guy is a friend of mine. And what's really crazy about that scene is so I'm standing on what's called the Hillary step in that moment. And for the listeners that don't know the history, the Hillary step is the crux of the climb, and the crux is a technical climbing term for the most difficult part. So imagine in 1953, you have Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay, these are the first two men to summit Everest, this was the final frontier, it had never been accomplished before. And so they pioneered this 10 meter high rock face at 28,700 feet above sea level. So I wanted to film from from that iconic spot on Everest. And what's crazy, what you don't see in the video, is there's a 7000 foot drop right behind me. And my friend, Massoud literally leans on me in that moment, and he's exhausted, and I'm feeling him. And we have a great relationship. And he just leans on me and takes a breath and puts his hand down on my knee.
Nick VinZant 11:06
I was wondering whose hand that was.
Elia Saikaly 11:10
And you get what's beautiful about that moment is you can really feel the trust between us. And, you know, he just felt safe enough to just lean on me. And he knew I had his back. And I'm the camera guy, right. So I'm filming all this. And, you know, it's important to let people know as well that, you know, when you watch a video like that, it's not just me doing that, there's there's a highly orchestrated operation happening in order to make that happen. And that's a combination of the guides who are guiding the expedition, my Sherpa film crew. So the Nepalese high altitude climbers that support my efforts, and quite frankly, like, they are the unsung heroes of Mount Everest, they, they make it all happen. They're the guys that, you know, open up the route and fix the lines and transport equipment. And in my case, as a filmmaker, I can't do it without them. And it's this symbiotic relationship where it's just orchestrated, we knew that we wanted to film from that spot. And so everybody was on board with that. And when this guy got to that moment, he knew that I was there, I raced ahead, I sat on that iconic spot for a couple minutes. And I waited for the team to arrive. So what you see may look simple to a degree, but it's there was a lot of thought that went into that and to do it safely, is the most important part. And that's just a lot of people supporting this idea. And the community online gets to enjoy Mount Everest in that way, as a result, follow up
Nick VinZant 12:33
that really good answer with this question like so do you have gloves on? Like, how are you pressing? How are you pressing record?
Elia Saikaly 12:40
It's insane, man. Like, I'm first of all, so my father is Lebanese. I'm born Canadian. Mother's Canadian. And I grew up in Ottawa, Canada. So the cold is not something that's unique to us. Yeah, right. When we're three or four years old, their parents throw us outside of snowsuits. And they're like, Okay, go play and it's minus 20. So we're used to it. And, you know, in that moment, yes, I have gloves on. But you know, as a high altitude cinematographer, my hands are constantly at risk. It's very dangerous. And I never fully appreciated being Canadian and our Canadian winters until I really started to think about it and recognize the advantage that I had working in these extreme environments when it's minus 20. Because I can only shoot with thin thin gloves on. So I often depending how cold it is, if it's really cold, I have to take off the big down mitt, I will have the liner gloves on, I'll usually have hand warmers inside those gloves. And then I pull the camera out. And then I've popped the battery in, get focused, get the shot, roll, then reverse engineer everything, put everything away, stick the camera back on my shoulder and then keep running upwards. So it's it's a very complex, difficult thing to do. But it's kind of my obsession. I love it. And I think the payoff is amazing when you can share that part of the world with people
Nick VinZant 14:00
so you're actually doing it handheld I thought maybe like okay, he's just he's got like a good GoPro rig or something on there. When you get up to the very tip you
Elia Saikaly 14:08
do. damn well with with My professional background, like, I often tell people, I'm a storyteller not a climber. So I started out in the film and television industry long before I got into climbing. So for me when I'm part of these professional productions GoPros have their place for sure. But I've got a I've got the lightest heaviest rig that I can manage up there. So often if you see a photograph of me behind the scenes, I've got a fairly significant you know, mirrorless camera with an onboard microphone with lots of batteries, my climbing partner percent cause he's got the other half of the batteries. We've got a tripod as well. We've got backup cameras, and in this day and age, it's amazing because you've got lightweight drones, lightweight gimbals mirrorless cameras, you know, providing incredibly high quality images. So So we push that tech to It's extreme in that environment. And then your mental focus and physical capacity all combined allow you to actually record and create images. And in my case, I'm also tracking story. So I'm looking for content, I have to be aware of where the talents at and what they're going through and, and how what's unfolding relates to the story that we're telling. And oftentimes, I'm shooting documentaries. So it's just not enough to just record images, you got to record images with great sound with high quality and the content has to fit into the overall story you're telling,
Nick VinZant 15:33
is there a spot on the mountain and mountain in general terms, right? Like, what is there a spot where generally like, all this is going to be the hardest place,
Elia Saikaly 15:42
anything in the death zone is hard, right, you're dying up there, you can't survive, life cannot exist up there. And it is incredibly taxing on the body. And it's, it's important to help people understand as well that, you know, in the death zone once once you reach this area, approximately 7000 meters, 7500 meters, sometimes lower, you begin breathing supplemental oxygen through a mask and a tank that's, you know, on your back and, and the local Nepalese high altitude workers, often referred to as the Sherpa teams. I mean, these guys, there's mass coordination to ensure that you've got extra oxygen as well in the tents and the food so so everything above 1000 meters is difficult, absolutely everything. And it's also important for the listener to understand that there are multiple ways that you can climb Everest, right? Like everything we've talked about so far. This is this is from the south side in Nepal. So Everest straddles the the Chinese Tibetan border and the Nepalese border. So you can climb from the north side, you can climb from the south side, which is everything that we've been talking about. And then you've got much harder routes as well that less than 1% of people attempt. But in this particular case, yeah, everything above the death zone is incredibly difficult. The most dangerous part of the mountain is what's called the Khumbu Icefall and it's this flowing river of ice that begins to fold upon itself.
Nick VinZant 17:06
Is there a spot on the mountain that like, nobody's ever been able to film or photograph or anything like, Nope, we're not screwing around here like, not that you're screwing around, because you know what I mean, right? Like, nobody's ever seen this before.
Elia Saikaly 17:20
Before. I mean, I would say I've got a couple ideas in my mind that I would love to pull off I, I said earlier, I am a bit of a time lapse, obsessed not. So I often have four or five cameras running all night long. I've never seen imagery from the summit. I've never seen time lapse imagery from the summit at night. I've never seen night photography, like really good night photography from the final ridge on Everest. So that that's from the south summit to the summit of Everest. So those are things that we don't see a lot of. The other thing we don't see a lot of are the most difficult routes on Everest. So you know, for example, the West Ridge, or you know, very complex, what we call lines, these are the paths that you choose to climb up to the summit. Most people climb the easiest route, which which makes sense, you want to keep things safe and maximize your odds of success. The purest climbers like though really crazy people who don't often have, you know, the big social media accounts or who are always in the blockbusters. They're doing really crazy stuff where they're going up unclimbed routes, new routes, doing things solo by themselves. And so imagery from those areas and video from those areas is pretty rare to come by
Nick VinZant 18:36
the thing for me, right, like sitting in my Seattle basement, you know, the stuff that I've seen off of Evers is like the huge long lines, is it still like that where it almost seems like a tourist place? In some ways, right? Is it still like that? Is that changing? Is that an old thing? Or?
Elia Saikaly 18:54
Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. So in 2019, I was producing, directing and shooting a film called The dream of Everest, and the documentary is going to be released next year, actually. And we were at the center of that crazy unfolding on top of the world where you had hundreds of people that went for the top at the same time. We've all seen that image. And yes, I mean, that's that's reality up there. And every year more and more people are wanting to attempt Everest. And the reason that happened in 2019. You know, it's it's a bit of a complex unfolding here. But essentially, you know, you have a weather window on Everest. So what you do is, you know, throughout this one week, which is, you know, traditionally unfolding that last week of May, so let's say May 20 to 25th. Historically, that's when the good weather exists. And because it takes you six or seven weeks to climb Everest, what you need to do is bactine, your expedition from around May 20. And so right now, you've got people early spring heading to Basecamp. And they know that they're going to shoot for the summit around May 20. That varies, of course, sometimes earlier, sometimes a bit later, sometimes there are multiple windows. In that case, there was a very narrow window of two days or so with an extra day on the end, and some days before, but the majority of people went for it all at the same time. And that's what created that congestion. And the other thing that complicates this a little bit more is that there are also key areas on a mountain, where you're, you're naturally going to see a lot of congestion, and they call these areas have a bottleneck. So they're often very technical areas where you just can't move quickly. And so naturally, if you get somebody in a line, they're going to slow down, that's going to cause this ripple effect for a lot of people who then have to wait for that person. And so you start to see these, these lineups build. The other piece of it is that let's say for every three or 400 permits and climbers that want to climb Everest, you have to imagine to that then that means there are five or 600 potential local Nepalese climbers, Sherpas and other cast members who who are up on the mountain as well. So you talking about eight 900 people climbing Everest at the same time, in addition to all of the support staff that doesn't claim that lives at Basecamp. So you know, there are there are over 1000 people living at Mount Everest base camp throughout any given season,
Nick VinZant 21:26
you know, and again, like like, this is me as a bystander, and I asked this question with no judgment or any kind of word with that, like, is it? Is it a bad thing, that there's that many people lined up? I mean, you look at it, and like your first reaction is like, Oh, the sacred place? And there's just a line of tourists. But is it? Right, like, I guess, what do you think is, is it a bad thing is that's just how it is?
Elia Saikaly 21:50
It's complicated, is probably my best answer. And we'll unpack this in our documentary. But you know, to answer that high level for you, personally, naturally, I don't think it's a good thing. Obviously, you know, Everest, in some ways, has lost its charm. It has lost its magic. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's hardly the purest experience that it once was, it has become highly commercialized, which is not necessarily a good thing. And yet, at the same time, you know, the other lens that you need to look at it through is that it's providing incredible opportunity for local people, right, like the local people that work on that mountain are now the ones that are running businesses, they're earning their income, they're putting their children through school, and feeding their families and creating opportunity for themselves. So from that standpoint, if you think, Well, if we changed all that and took all that away, then what would happen? So I think perhaps the you know, the better way to look at it, and to ask is, well, how can we make this all better?
Nick VinZant 22:51
Now? You, Phil, none other mountains as well, though, right? Are they becoming like that, too?
Elia Saikaly 22:55
Yeah. I mean, it all depends on your style. Right? We we talk about style a lot in in climbing. And it's important to differentiate, right? Like you have classic rock climbing, you have ice climbing, and then you have high altitude mountaineering, you've got hardcore, true climbers who don't go anywhere near Mount Everest, who are doing things without even telling people, they're out in the alpine they're doing it as difficult as possible, and making it as hard as possible on themselves. So, so that exists. And then you've got the other side. So with these other mountains, yes, I mean, we are seeing the commercialization of other mountains as well, right? Like one of the popular challenges is something called the Seven Summits. So this is the highest mountain on every continent. And this This was a challenge that was created by two businessmen actually, Dick bass and Frank Wells. And it was just the ultimate adventure between two friends and they popularized this. And then you have quite a number of people that set out to aspire to, to claim the Seven Summits, it is getting busier. I spent the last year of my life working on a project on K two, and k two is the second highest mountain on the planet. It's known as the savage mountain. I mean, k two in comparison to Everest, I mean, Everest kind of feels like Disneyland in comparison to k two it's it's it's it's the wild east, it's incredibly volatile, very dangerous, unforgiving, it has a death rate of one in four people who summit die on descent, right. So this is how serious you know these mountains can be and and we are beginning to see commercialization even in Pakistan on K two. So yes, it is it is becoming more and more commercialized. But you do have the option right? You can stay clearly away from all of those peaks and just do smaller peaks 5000 6000 7000 meter mountains, there are a whole slew of options. You know, for The person that wants to climb mountains,
Nick VinZant 25:01
so, you know, get into the heavier kind of stuff. I guess you've lost friends, like, what is that? How do you keep doing it when you know, the toll that it has taken on some people?
Elia Saikaly 25:13
Yeah. I asked myself that question all the time. And you begin to look at the statistics. And the longer you continue to expose yourself to these environments, the higher the likelihood is, at some point your luck's going to run out. And I have survived multiple incidents, you know, in 2015, I got hit by an avalanche. On Mount Everest, that base camp and over 18 people died that day. And across Nepal, almost 10,000 people, if not more, died that day, because of the earthquake. And on Everest, it triggered an avalanche. And it completely wiped out central Basecamp. So you had this 1500 foot tidal wave of snow that just came down obliterated central base camp and made its way out to the exterior edges of camp. And it was a warzone man. And, you know, at one point, I, I had bodies piled up in my tent. It was insane. I my my friend died during the aftermath. You know, it was it was just absolutely horrific. And base camp is the area where you're supposed to be protected. And I've got this camera. And, you know, I'm observing all this unfolding trying to decide, okay, like, what is my role here is my role to be a documentarian, a storyteller, or is my role to be on the frontlines helping people. And so it becomes a very complex situation. And I have been exposed to these situations over and over and over again, in the mountains. And I, because of the nature of my job, and the stories I tell, you know, I am a journalist of sorts as well, I gotta chase the stories. And so I find myself very close to tragedy time and time again. And you reach a point where you begin to inherit that trauma as well. Because these are incredibly difficult circumstances. And then you inherit vicarious trauma, you know, the pain that others go through, because you're telling those stories, and oftentimes, I found myself, the person in the middle, who's relaying information to families of the deceased, because, you know, there's crazy stuff happening up here on top of the world, and the families at home don't know what's going on. And I'm one of these people that bridges that gap at times. And, ultimately, I have definitely asked myself, I don't know how long I can't keep doing this. Because at some point, my luck will run out.
Nick VinZant 27:47
It's what I've always wondered, right? In that kind of circumstances, like, obviously, it's dangerous people know, they're not coming back. The people, though, really? Does it seem to really weigh on them, like, oh, I might really not be coming back. Do they seem to know what they're really getting into?
Elia Saikaly 28:05
I would say the people with experience come to terms with the fact that there's a high possibility that they can die. And so those that are self aware, that have spent a lot of time in these environments, who are often either local Nepalese climbers, Sherpas, for example, you know, the best guides in the world, filmmakers like myself who are constantly exposed to these environments, you have to be prepared for the worst. And, and I always say, I plan to fail, right? Naturally, I'm optimistic I want to succeed, of course, I want to survive, but I need to be ready for anything. And I need to train my mind to be in a place where I can respond and react calmly. when shit hits the fan and bad things start to unfold. I would say that it's probably a fair statement that somebody who's fairly new at this pretends that that's not reality. And I think that that's a mistake.
Nick VinZant 29:06
Are you ready for some harder slash listeners submitted questions? Absolutely. is ever a steal Evers? No, what do you think is going to replace it?
Elia Saikaly 29:14
I don't think that the allure of Everest will ever change. And it's, it's like it's just hardwired in us because of its symbolism, right? It has that image of the, the the ultimate achievement because there is no higher place on the planet where we can place our feet. So so for that reason, it will always retain its value. It's it's you know, trauma Luma It's the mother goddess of the earth. It's the highest point on the planet. What will replace it? I don't know. I don't think anything can ever replace Mount Everest.
Nick VinZant 29:49
Just filming things ruin the experience for you. And I think what they mean by the sense of like, it's kind of like if you're watching through a lens. Are you still watching? Like does it feel about Like I was there,
Elia Saikaly 30:02
I've asked myself that question many times where I've pondered Am I really a part of this experience as an observer. And I've questioned that because particularly, when you're obsessed with detail in the way that I am, with sound, and light, and picture and lenses, and content, and all these technical details, for sure, it takes you out of the present moment. But the beauty of it is that in another way, it really immerses you in the present moment in a way that is incredibly unique. And I have to say, you know, the camera, for me has been the greatest gift I have ever received, and really have my father to thank for being exposed to it very young. And I say that, you know, as a filmmaker, particularly as a director of photography, you're the person who needs to be right there, right in the action observing all of this. And so whether you appreciate it, like it or not, I mean, you're in it, man, you're absolutely in it, you're in rooms, you're in environments, you have access to story and people and knowledge and, and you're, you know, all of a sudden, in a place that you never imagined that you could be. So when I take that, versus Am I really a part of this experience, definitely, I'm going to choose to be in these extraordinary places. The other thing, just to be part to that is that it's really important that you also live the experience consciously outside of that. So they these days, when I go on an expedition, it's like, I'm doing this job, which is the thing that I love to do. But as soon as I hit cut, right, it's like, um, it's all joy. It's joy. It's all it's wonder. It's shared experiences, it's creativity. And often on the front lines, you're having very different experiences in comparison to the person in this case, for example, who's who's who's climbing only. And for me, that's the journey. And the summit really is kind of the cream on top. Right? Where it's that's a bonus if you make it, but really, it's everything else. That is the reason why I'm there.
Nick VinZant 32:03
Have you ever left the lens cap on?
Elia Saikaly 32:07
Haven't we all? You know, I have a funny story for you about that one of the most treasured experiences that I've ever had, was interviewing the Dalai Lama. And I had this incredibly privileged experience where a very good friend of mine, so his wife, they were living in India at the time, just outside His holiness, His temple in Dharamsala. And they asked me if I was game, because I had essentially said to the look, if ever you have a project, and I can support you, just call me. So I get I get this email, which was pretty wild. And she said, Are you interested in in helping us record this interview with the Dalai Lama? And I'm like, okay. Yes. So so it was, it was this amazing experience, where I was in charge of the technical side of the production that he set up five cameras and lit his room in his temple. And, and I don't get starstruck a whole lot. And I've worked with, you know, sports celebrities and athletes making 40 $50 million a year and, you know, musicians and actors, and you know, mountain selection, you name it, right. And it's like, you get you get pretty used to it. You're pretty desensitized to it. And we're all human beings at the end of the day, but I was I was pretty starstruck here, right. And I'm sitting in the, in the doorway. And all of a sudden, it's like, I see the Dalai Lama, His Holiness, stepping towards me, and I'm just thinking, holy crap. It's the Dalai Lama. And I didn't record, right. And I was thinking I was recording. And then I didn't record and then I noticed the red button wasn't flashing and I thought, Oh, shit, you know, hit that red button. But it was just one of these amazing moments where it was like, wow, like, all that sacrifice. You know, every crazy thing I ever did. You know, all these chances. I took on believing in myself creating this career that everybody said, I was wasting my time. It was too risky, I should get a real job, then all of a sudden, it's like, you're filming his holiness, and you're in this room with him and you're having this amazing conversation? And
Nick VinZant 34:09
did the cameras like that environment? Are they like, Hey, man, it's pretty broke blow like, do you run into a lot of technical problems up there?
Elia Saikaly 34:17
Absolutely. Yeah. And I always say, you know, it's, it's not necessarily the cameras fault, right? Oftentimes, it's it's user error, right? Like I when I was on top of Everest, so I've summited Everest four times now. And I'm actually I've got the Canadian record for that apparently. So I'm on the last an expedition that I was on, you know, there was this moment where the batteries were just dropping from 100 to zero in a couple of seconds. And and this is like the most important part of the climb, right? We're just below the Hillary step. And there's, you know, I would say 10 or 12 people right in front of me, and all my batteries are dead. And percent Kasia who's who's my rockstar clock? I mean partner and best buddy. So PK Sherpas his name. So he's at the back of the line. I'm at the Hillary step. I'm running out of batteries. And imagine this comical scene where I'm like, PK didn't have radios, we should add radios. But I'm hollering at him in a good way to bring me the batteries. And he's such a rock star, which all these guys are rock stars, that he climbs up onto what they call the cornice, right. So imagine these ribs, spires of frozen ice at 28,600 feet above sea level. PK climbs over everybody front points his way with his spikes, which which are your crampons climbs over everybody fully exposed, drops down goes into his breast pocket hands, my batteries. Like this is this is the kind of stuff that happens sometimes, you know, everything fails, cameras, fail batteries, fail things, free sensors, shutters, everything goes wrong. And it's really important just to have backup plans. So if you if you're going to my backpack, I've got GoPros there, I've got an extra mirrorless you know, PK, who's my right hand, man, you know, he's got extra backup equipment. Because we can't come back without the images. Do
Nick VinZant 36:15
other climbers get mad at you because they're struggling and you're filming them? And also doing this while holding a camera?
Elia Saikaly 36:24
I have had moments where where people have made jokes. I mean, we have to keep it right. Yeah, right. In the beginning, when I started doing this, it was like, oh, you know, life or death. And it's really dramatic, you know, and you kind of get to the point 17 years later, where if you're not having fun, you really shouldn't be there. So so we keep it pretty light. And, you know, for the most part, the expeditions at least that I film, we tend to have more experience and in some cases vastly more experienced. So we have an easier time because of our experience on the mountain. And oftentimes I've been filming people with PK chasing me and and and again full credit to our Nepalese film crew who tolerate my antics, where when I move there two or three other guys that have to move with me. And so the talent that we're being filmed kind of laugh at the situation and think, Okay, this is ridiculous. You know, they're chugging up the line. And meanwhile, you got three guys that are going up faster, sometimes backwards, you know, filming everything that's unfolding. So it is comical when you look at it from that standpoint, sometimes. And at other times, and this is, this is important to say and it's it's something that I've had to become good at, where everybody's on board Traditionally, when things are going right, right, we want to be part of whatever it is that's unfolding. The harder part is when things start to go wrong. And as a storyteller, there's the saying, and I hang on to it, which is the most important stories are the most difficult to tell. Right. And I've been in countless situations where even the people that I respect and who respect me, became very angry with me at times, because I had the foresight in that moment to know that what's unfolding as difficult as it is, is incredibly important, in some cases, historically important. And the outside world needs to understand what's happening here or whatever other complex factor related to our project. So I've been under a number of situations where Yeah, I mean, things are very difficult. And it's very hard to film when things are going wrong. And I have had to become very good at that. And I think that the nature of some of the projects, I've got my hands in Everest 2019 being one of them. And my last project on K two, there, there are two projects where when it was at its worst when it was all at its most complex. Not only was I rolling, I was climbing, I was managing the situation in some in some circumstances and helping other people at the same time as well.
Nick VinZant 38:57
Let's let's follow let's follow that up with how do you feel about the movie cliffhanger.
Elia Saikaly 39:04
I love I love Sylvester Stallone. Yeah, I mean it's it's kind of fun. It's like you know that film on K to where there are explosions happening Vertical Limit explosions happening. I mean, hilarious, right? I mean that that is clearly not what really happens. That's Hollywood at its finest and at its best. So you know, you got to accept that for what it is. I suppose for me, I find it highly entertaining
Nick VinZant 39:30
there though a Hollywood movie that like oh, that's what it's like.
Elia Saikaly 39:33
Yeah, I mean, I think so. I mean, there's obviously a vast difference between the type of work I do which which is reality, it's high reality and documentary work versus fiction. One of the really interesting parts of my careers that people license my footage, so there isn't a lot of it. So oftentimes, a lot of the productions on Everest, the producers will come to me looking for my footage. So You've seen my footage on everywhere from CNN, Netflix, HBO discovery, the list goes on and on. And it's a real privilege to be able to do that. But specific to your question the the visual effects team from the Everest film that was set in Nepal during the 1996 disaster. So the Hollywood film, it was, it was really interesting because the visual effects team reached out to me and they were looking for reference footage, which I thought was really cool, because the attention to detail was that, and they had heard the story where, I guess, Neil deGrasse Tyson, who I'm a huge fan of. So apparently, there's a story and somebody else will have to confirm this, but this is what I heard. And he criticized the placement of the stars in the film, Titanic. And so the visual effects team decided to use that as a benchmark. And they said, Okay, we want to get everything right. We want to know what it looks like at camp for at nine o'clock pm at that specific time of year, because we want our visual effects to accurately represent the reality of what Mount Everest really looks like. And I thought, Wow, that's amazing. That's an incredible amount of detail. Because what you tend to see in these films, you see some really bad adaptations of mountain films, because clearly, they're not shooting up there with their actors, for the most part. And so I felt that they they got a lot right in that film.
Nick VinZant 41:29
If Neil deGrasse Tyson sent me that'd be like, Come on, man. Making a movie. And Leo could have fit on that door. And you know that this is a little bit heavier one, I guess it's like, Are there really, bodies left on a lot of the mountains?
Elia Saikaly 41:43
Yes. Yes, there are. It is an unfortunate reality of 1000 meter peaks. More and more, what tends to happen is that the people that are left behind due to tragic circumstances, oftentimes, you have to understand the hostile nature of that environment to begin with. And anytime that somebody attempts to recover a person that is deceased or even saved somebody, you have to remember that you can barely save yourself up there, you can barely place one foot in front of the other up there. And so to orchestrate a rescue operation to bring somebody down is just extremely dangerous. It is possible people do it, I have been a part of a number of recoveries because of my exposure as a filmmaker. So I understand what goes into it. And it's often my Nepalese climbing partners who are orchestrating some of those, those recoveries. For the most part, people have either been brought down or out of respect for the families and the deceased, they've been moved aside, so that at least at minimum, they're out of sight. But unfortunately, it is a tragic reality of that environment. And this is actually one of the topics that I get into in my film that is set on Everest from the 2019 climbing season, so that that film will be released next year. And we do unpack that reality because 11 people lost their lives that year.
Nick VinZant 43:13
Now, that is that the was that one of the most that has ever at the same time
Elia Saikaly 43:17
was to the earthquake technically, was the most and there was another avalanche that I was also present for, unfortunately, in 2014, where 16 Sherpas lost their lives. And I was actually trapped above this, because of the wreckage, which had completely destroyed the Khumbu Icefall the route and so we couldn't get down. And it was just it was It was tragic, because 16 Sherpas lost their lives.
Nick VinZant 43:45
How do you feel about drones? And I think this person both means in the sense of like, Are they good for filming? And should they be up there?
Elia Saikaly 43:52
Drones are incredible technology. They're a tool in my toolkit. I'm a huge advocate of flying drones responsibly. So in the adverse region, and actually you you have to be permitted, you want to do it legally, you want to do it safely, you want to be really careful in that you have to plan for things that can potentially go wrong, you know, drones dropped from the sky sometimes and when you're dealing with extreme altitude and the cold, especially, you know, there's all kinds of mechanical failure. That is possible. And, you know, I'll give you a quick example here. I was on K two this past summer. And I was climbing k two in winter making a documentary about a team who were attempting que tu as the last unconquered, 8000 meter mountain in winter. So I was telling the story of citied and Alice apara, as well as an Icelandic climber named John Snorri. And they disappeared near the summit of Ketu. And they never returned. And we were supposed to be with them. And we were just a couple of 100 meters below them percent Kaji and I and and our climbing friend Fazal, And we turn back because there was an oxygen mix up, we can find our oxygen. So I was very conservative per saying agreed we made this collective decision, we turned around the next season, we went back with CG the son who survived. And I flew my drone at 8300 meters above sea level eight can fly that high dam, I launched from 7900 meters, kind of hoping for the best, I had a couple of drones with me and you buy these drones thinking like, Okay, I mean, no one else is around here. So if it drops, it drops, and we lose it. But yeah, I launched it from 7900 meters. And I flew it up to the area known as the bottleneck. And so this is the most dangerous obstacle, arguably, in all of these 8000 meter peaks. And it's, it's just this gigantic piece of ice that's feels like it's on top of a mountain, and you need to climb under this thing. And if anything comes down, you're dead. Yeah. Right. And it's highly exposed. And so I flew the drone from 7900 meters to 8300 meters, looking for our missing friends. And so as a as a tool, I mean, it's invaluable up there. It's incredible where the Tech has gone. And I look at at all tech is valuable, as long as you use it responsibly, particularly with drones, which which can injure people if you're not responsible?
Nick VinZant 46:19
Are you able to find them?
Elia Saikaly 46:20
Yeah, we did. It was this is the, this is the topic of my last film, K to the calling, which, which is in post production at the moment, we did find them. And I mean, it's kind of a crazy story on its own, where, you know, there was a 13, or 14 Day search and rescue operation after they disappeared. And the Pakistan military got involved. And at one point, the pilots who are friends of mine, invited me to come up into the cockpit with them, and to photograph what they thought could have been our missing friends. And so you know, imagine me I'm there with my cameras, I get this request via my satellite device. And, you know, the Icelandic Chilean and Pakistani governments are working together with satellite imagery. And they identified a few objects that matching the color of our friends down suits. And the next thing, you know, I'm up in this helicopter with these Pakistani pilots, photographing what could be our friends, we were unsuccessful on that attempt, we never found them. But when we went back in the summertime, a couple of days, actually, after I flew the drone, our friends were found. And, and I was there with Alice apara. Son, so she'd, and so she had had an opportunity to bury his father, at 8000 meters above sea level, I couldn't live with the idea that there was this possibility that his father could be found, and that he would not be on the mountain as that was unfolding. It's, it's crazy stuff, you know, and that's what I spent the last year working on. And that's one of my documentaries that's coming out in the next year and a half or so,
Nick VinZant 47:59
I have no brilliant statement to follow that story up. That's one of those where I just keep my mouth closed.
Elia Saikaly 48:07
You know, I got into this 17 years ago, not having a clue that I would ever land where I've landed today. And, and I'm so grateful that I have had the privilege of being a part of these stories, and having the support of people who have believed in these stories. And it's as difficult as it's been, it's, it's, it's just been life altering. And, and I really go into these things not, not for, you know, the glory or the physical conquest. It's like, I'm really trying to tell stories that matter. I'm really trying to make a difference with my work. I want people who, you know, are a part of these stories to feel inspired. I want them to learn new things. I want them to, you know, examine themselves after hearing some of these stories and ask themselves, okay, that's, maybe that's a little bit, you know, I don't want to ever do that. But, you know, what can I learn from that? And what can I apply from some of those lessons and apply to my own life? And what dreams Am I capable of achieving? And when I look at it through that lens, it's so incredibly worthwhile. And it's, it's an amazing feeling to know that the thing that you're doing that is the thing that you love, is positively impacting people on the other side. And that really keeps me motivated to continue to do all this.
Nick VinZant 49:24
What advice would you give for somebody kind of looking to be the next you
Elia Saikaly 49:28
do something else?
Nick VinZant 49:31
That's yeah, that's how you know it's a hard career, right?
Elia Saikaly 49:34
Yeah. No, on a serious note, I would say that I always use the analogy that, you know, going on an expedition is like going on an adventure. Right? And how many times in your life do you get to suit up? Right and to embark on an adventure where you know, there are challenges and there are potential consequences. And there's this potential treasure waiting for you on top of the mountain and the treasure is not the conquest of getting to the top, you know, like the, the real treasure is, is what you learn about yourself while going through all of that. And it's these relationships that you form. And it's what you learn along the way. And it's cliche, but it's really truly about the journey. So I would say, you know, to somebody, if you want to get into all this, it'll be really humble about it, it's so easy to look at images online, and to think, oh, you know, if that person can do it, then I can do it. What you don't always see is the 17 years of grinding, and heartache and hardship and sacrifice and dedication and determination, and everything else that comes along with it. So my advice is, you know, be humble in your approach to it, be very responsible about how you do it, you know, graduate to the point of climbing Everest, so you, you know, starts with education, learn as much as you can take courses, go on small expeditions gain experience. And then ultimately, when, when you're ready to get to the big mountains, just make sure that you're responsible in terms of who you decide to hire, to support your expedition, and you want to sync up, you know, your actual abilities, you know, to the environment, and make sure you have the right person that can guide you through that and the right company. As far as filmmaking goes, I mean, I always tell people, like, you just got to shoot, right, you got to you got to create, you got to get out there, you got to do it. And a friend of mine once told me, and I never forgot this, and I was quite offended at the time. Actually, I was quite young. And, and, and, you know, I'm, I sit in a position today, you know, after all this experience, and I think it's important to be critical of of yourself, and to self examine, and to have a level of self awareness where, you know, when somebody says something to you, obviously, you know, if you're being offended by it, or it's triggering something, well, maybe there's something to learn that in there, right, as opposed to shut it down, not hear it. And this friend said to me, Elia, and I had the oldest ambition to want to be this great, you know, filmmaker, I want to climb Everest and make these movies and, and he said, What have you done?
Nick VinZant 52:03
Dang. Yeah. Ah,
Elia Saikaly 52:07
and it was like, oh, you know, I kind of hurt. But he was right. Right. And I remember that at the time. I wasn't horribly offended. I just thought Ouch. Okay. Okay, well, what can I learn from that, because I really respected this person. And this guy had ran, you know, something like 100 expeditions to the Arctic and the Antarctic, and was an accomplished explorer that worked with some of the best researchers and climate experts on the planet, and very, so it's like, I've really listened to what he said. And I thought, Okay, I'm going to show you what I've done, I'm going to gain experience, I'm going to get out, I'm going to start shooting. And if I want to be this guy that people go to, to film expeditions on Mount Everest, that I'm going to do everything that I have to do to gain that experience. So that I'm, I'm good enough. I'm responsible enough. I'm capable. And it's really about putting in the miles, you got to do the hard work. And so if you're ready for that, if you're ready for that commitment, hey, anything is possible, right? It's really up to just believing that you can and being willing to put in the miles to get yourself to where you want to be.
Nick VinZant 53:11
That's pretty much all the questions we guys anything else you think that we missed? Or what's kind of coming up next for you? Where can people find you?
Elia Saikaly 53:17
Yeah, yeah, thank you. Me find me on Instagram. At LSA CLI at least likely dot coms my my website, on Facebook, tick tock all the channels. What's next for me, I've got a couple exciting expeditions. Nobody really knows this yet. But I'm leaving to Everest in a week and a half for another assignment. The most exciting stuff that I got going on at the moment is I have two really exciting films in the pipeline that I have really poured my heart and soul into, I feel they're really important films. One is called the dream of Everest, the other is called K to the calling. So take a little while to get those through post production, but really encourage people to check those out. And maybe just in closing, I would say that it's just so important to approach these environments with deep respect, deep, deep respect, and to show up responsibly, and to respect the environment to respect the local people, who are the unsung heroes of the Himalaya. And I think you really can't go wrong. If you approach the mountains. That way, you have to respect nature, you have to recognize that there are consequences to your actions, if you show up irresponsibly. And if you line all that up, and you do it, right, I'll tell you like it is life changing. It changed my life going up there. I feel like it is such a gift. And so much of what I do is about giving back and passing that gift on because I know the potential to have someone's life changed by way of experience in these environments. So that would be that would be in closing what I would say to people.