Do you know what to do if everything goes wrong? From the African desert to the Amazon rainforest, survival expert Melissa Miller has been dropped into some of the most dangerous environments on Earth. We talk wilderness survival, urban survival and what really happens on the hit TV show Naked and Afraid. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Pieces of Summer Clothing.
Melissa Miller: 02:24ish
Pointless: 31:50ish
Top 5: 52:37ish
https://www.instagram.com/melissabackwoods (Melissa Instagram)
facebook.com/melissabackwoods (Melissa Facebook)
For more information on BLADE Show, The World’s Largest Knife Show: www.bladeshow.com
Melissa Miller (Naked and Afraid, Survival Expert) Interview
Nick VinZant 0:11
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode survival tips, and summer clothes,
Melissa Miller 0:19
foraging was probably my first little dive into the world of wilderness survival. I mean, I've went two plus weeks without eating before, I've made it up to two and a half days without water before when it comes to survival things can get very ugly. Very fast, Naked and Afraid I was on it three different times. I survived in South Africa for 40 days, I've eaten turtles, monitor lizards, IV in Antelope testicles. I've eaten warthog brain,
Nick VinZant 0:51
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance to subscribe, leave us a rating or review. Our goal over the next couple of weeks and months, is to try to make this show a lot more interactive. So if there's anything that you think if there's anything that you like, or that you don't like, guests that you want to hear from topics we we want to talk about, we really do want to hear from you. So our email address is right there. We're on social media Profoundly Pointless tick tock, Twitter and Instagram, and even in your podcast app. Leave us a comment, let us know what you like or don't like, because we've been doing this show for almost four years now. And it just feels like it feels like something is missing. And honestly, I think that something is you. Like, we want to know more about what you think. So our first guest teaches people how to survive extreme situations. And she has been in some very extreme situations, everywhere from Africa, to the rainforest, she has survived for weeks on end with basically nothing. And you might recognize her from the TV show Naked and Afraid. The inside look at how that show comes together. And what the situations that they're in are really like, is fascinating. This is survivalist Melissa Miller, when it comes to kind of survival skills. Like how prepared Do you think that most people are?
Melissa Miller 2:30
Oh, goodness. And in terms of for a catastrophic event? Unfortunately, not not much. The whole prepper type thing seems to kind of be something that is actually coming a lot more commonplace nowadays. But you know, people, a lot of people look at it and just think that people who you know, go out of their way to be prepared or know that survival skills, they kind of think that they might think those people are a little crazy. But it's a great skill to have that because when the time comes that you need it, you're really it's really a time when you really need
Nick VinZant 3:02
it. And it's definitely one of those things like if you don't know it already, it's kind of too late.
Melissa Miller 3:07
Yeah, it's good to have some a few basic skills, especially in terms of just emergency preparedness. Absolutely. You know, you just never know when you're going to be in a situation where having that basic knowledge and that basic foundation is going to save your life.
Nick VinZant 3:24
So some of those basic things like what are some things that you think that like, Look, you should you should probably know this?
Melissa Miller 3:31
Well, when it comes to outdoor survival, just knowing what to do if you get lost and knowing just some basic ways to keep yourself alive for at least a couple of days until search and rescue team can come find you what I
Nick VinZant 3:45
guess what do you do if you get lost, the only thing I've ever heard is like well follow water.
Melissa Miller 3:50
If you get lost hiking, honestly, the most important thing you can do is stay where you are. And I know that sounds contradictory, but people will come find you if you are absolutely totally and utterly lost. If you're at that point where you're off grid and you're on a hiking trail, and you have no idea where you are, stay put and figure out how you can how you can survive the night because people are going to come find you within you know, you're gonna get reported missing or whatnot, people are going to know what's up. But before that, before any of that make sure to always let people know you're going out for a hike, let them know, Hey, I'm going to be here. And that way, if you do get lost, they will know exactly where to go.
Nick VinZant 4:29
So in your kind of experience to help, at least me put things in perspective, say 10 is I could go out into the wilds of the wildest places right now and be completely fine. And one if I'm five feet away from my kitchen, I'm probably not going to survive. Like where on that scale of one to 10 Do you think that most people probably are? I want to
Melissa Miller 4:52
give people the benefit of the doubt so also for three I don't know most people I know cannot do a set can't even deal without like the basic of without their phone.
Nick VinZant 5:04
I think that honestly though, that's like a fair assessment, like I grew up camping hunting fishing in Kansas in Colorado. And I don't know if I would last 48 hours. I really don't.
Melissa Miller 5:17
It's it's hard, especially being outside wilderness survival, it is a whole different territory. When you don't have the right equipment, you can you can die really quickly. It's scary. There's a lot of things that happen really quickly, like being too cold, hypothermia and dehydration. And yeah, most people aren't prepared. And honestly, to be prepared, it takes a lot of practice, it takes a lot of research, and it takes a lot of time, it's an investment to be prepared in a scenario like that, you know, just knowing how to survive in the wilderness.
Nick VinZant 5:51
So how did you kind of like how did you get into this? I grew up
Melissa Miller 5:55
a big nature lover my whole life. And it really stemmed. I started to work at nature preservation several years ago, and I started to teach wilderness survival classes, I just got really heavy into it. And I would say that just all stem from a general love of nature, you know, I grew up fishing, hiking all that. And yeah, I think for Gene was probably my first little dive into the world of wilderness survival, and learning about edible plants and fungi, berries, all that stuff. So edible plant species that you can find outside.
Nick VinZant 6:30
That's always really worried me because I thought like, Oh, if I get lost, I have no, like, should I eat that? Can I eat this? Like, is there a way that you can tell like, you can eat this, you shouldn't eat this, because it seems like the consequences are like, if you pick the wrong one, it's really bad.
Melissa Miller 6:48
I highly, highly recommend, don't just go out there and do it. It's definitely something that takes a lot of time and practice and you want to make sure you're eating the right thing. There are poisonous species in your backyard, there are deadly speed she is out there in the woods, in the local park, you just always got to be on top of your game. So yeah, do tread with caution, I would say I have an entire you know, I have a lifetime of experience with being outdoors. It's something I've always been very in tune with. I've always it takes a long time to learn that skill. And it doesn't just come from reading a book, it really comes from being out there and knowing how to properly identify plants and fungi, especially fungi, that's when you really can get dangerous because the fungi are, as we all know, are things that can make you very, very sick.
Nick VinZant 7:35
Now, did you have somebody kind of show you how to do a lot of those things? Because like, I've looked at different species and stuff like that, and in the book and things like that? Well, to me, it's like reading IKEA instructions in the sense of like, well, this could be this way. But it also could be that way. Like it's it's meaningless to me in a way.
Melissa Miller 7:55
Yeah, you know, it's just it's one of those things that the more you get out there, and the more you look at plant species and learn how to properly identify it, the better you will get if you just walk out there with a book and expect to not identify things, it doesn't work like that. It's something that comes with time. You know, I taught classes on foraging, and I did a lot of research and even I, Nick even I'm still not 100% Sure I don't I am always very cautious. And even when it comes to things like mushrooms especially I am not fully comfortable, especially when I'm not in my like local area. I won't mess with things when I'm in a different state or especially to different country.
Nick VinZant 8:34
We had a guy on here who was a fungi researcher and he said the same thing is like, Look, I've been studying these and have a doctorate in it. And there's still some stuff like I I don't know exactly what that is. Right? Um, so like, when you when it comes to survival, I guess what would you say are kind of like the most important skills for people to be able to have,
Melissa Miller 8:59
there are your necessities so food, water and shelter, the most important thing that you're going to want to learn is how to how to get good shelter and how to make sure that you are warm enough to make it through the night I would say shelter and fire because that is the number one killer when it comes to a survival situation is hypothermia and weather conditions. Especially let's say you're walking and you know 70 degree day and it rains you get wet. That goes to 50 degrees at night, your body temperatures what your body temperature is gonna go down to like 40. So making sure that you're staying dry that you have shelter to cover your head from rain, and fire and then water and then food but number one is always having a plan to know how you can get some form of shelter to where you're not going to go into a form of like hyperthermia. It's the number one killer in these wilderness survival cases. You know people they get to cold shelters even
Nick VinZant 9:57
before water, me knowing nothing I'd be like well I'd better find water because
Melissa Miller 10:02
yeah, so Nick, this is really common, there's this really popular rule, it's like the rule of three, it's a survival thing. So in in extreme conditions, your body can survive three hours without proper shelter. Three days without proper water, and three weeks without food, I mean, I've went two plus weeks without eating before, I've made it up to two and a half days without water before, but I, I've always established shelter first, because in a very cold, or in a very extreme weather situation, you can you can perish without proper shelter. So shelter is always the number one priority. And then knowing how to do fire or trying to know, like, always carry a backup fire making method and being aware of ways to make fire in nature is very important to keep warm.
Nick VinZant 10:52
Are we talking, I got to build myself like a three bedroom condo out here, or die, just put some leaves on myself, like how good is the shelter does it need to be to be like, Alright, that's good enough,
Melissa Miller 11:04
I would say the most important thing when it comes to shelter is familiarizing yourself with different types of insulation that you can put on the ground to sleep on. Because the ground will sap your energy at night when you're sleeping on it. So being aware of where there might be dead leaves or moss. So you can put that on the ground and lay on that if you have to overnight it and then just knowing how to create a very simple shelter. Probably the most simple shelter I can think that a super easy to learn is a lean to pretty much you can make one by taking a bunch of sticks and kind of I'm sorry, my I can't raise my arm. But I'm trying to show you
Nick VinZant 11:42
your okay door. For people who may be listening to this at home, Melissa hurt her collarbone. So she can't raise her arm very well, it's
Melissa Miller 11:50
what a common way is people will take like two sticks like this. And then they'll take another one like that. And then you would put more sticks on it. And it kind of creates like a little tent shape. That's another that's pretty much a very basic lean to
Nick VinZant 12:04
know, you mentioned like wilderness survival. Are there other kinds of
Melissa Miller 12:08
survival, there are all different types of survival. So I actually I currently work for a magazine called recoil off grid, and their focus is urban survival, in the case of a catastrophic event where we lose the power on the grid. And it focuses on different types of urban awareness, urban survival situations,
Nick VinZant 12:30
I guess, in urban survival, like what's kind of what are the big things there that people should be aware of?
Melissa Miller 12:38
Well, civil unrest, and basically, total shutdown of the government, I think, is the biggest fear that people have when it comes to that. So basically, imagine a situation where all forms of law enforcement and government go away completely. And you basically need to figure out how to survive in a every man for himself situation in a urban environment. And we would like to believe that we would like to believe that humans would come together and work together. But when it comes to survival, things can get very ugly, very fast, especially if people are in a situation where they're fighting for resources, like food and water. So yeah, urban survival, it's a very scary situation. And that is why you kind of have these people that like, you know, they'll stock up on ammo, or they'll stock up on food, you know, people look and go, Oh, you're crazy. But gosh, if, if God forbid, or really crazy situation happened, where we lost, you know, a form of have we the government lost control, or people, you know, we got into this kind of,
Nick VinZant 13:47
yeah, no, I know what you mean. Ya know what I mean? And that's, that's the kind of thing I mean, look at the beginning of the pandemic, when we had like food shortage, not even a food shortage, but the idea of a food shortage and liquid kind of people did. I'm not one of those, like, Doomsday people necessarily. And if that's your thing, that's your thing, whatever, whatever people want to do. That's your thing. But I do kind of have that feeling like, oh, maybe we should kind of be ready for something. Like my wife and I, we've got earthquake kits in the house.
Melissa Miller 14:20
I think, you know, I'm not a huge prepper myself, like, I don't have this crazy bunker, but I do have some essentials. I do have some emergency food stashed away. And I think that people, most importantly, in terms of preparedness should be familiar with basic medical and emergency response situations, and that you should always have a good medical kit on hand. I know it sounds crazy, but like I in my car, I have a full med kit. I have a full trauma kit, you know, just make sure you have these, you know, medical things on hand. I think those are, in my opinion, a very important thing to have in terms of emergency preparedness
Nick VinZant 14:58
for people like yourself have and this is a generalization. So keep that in mind. Right? Like, are people afraid that these things are going to happen? Are they more just like, prepared? Because from, for my example, like we have earthquake kits, but I'm not really worried about an earthquake. Do you think that for a lot of survivalists like are they more prepared? Are they really worried that these things are going to happen?
Melissa Miller 15:27
I'm definitely just more prepared. I think there's this big misconception on like, every, like, there's a prepper that's just sitting there looking out his window blinds, thinking that something crazy is going to happen. No, the community is not like that. They're there. They're focused on being prepared. And just in case something happens, I don't think. And it's kind of like if you're prepared, you don't have to be worried.
Nick VinZant 15:51
There's definitely something along the lines to have like, You're crazy. Until you're not that you're basically crazy until you're a genius is how I feel a lot of that stuff works. Now, like for some of your experiences, you mentioned like two and a half days without water, how many weeks without food? Like, how did you end up in these situations,
Melissa Miller 16:10
there's a Discovery Channel show it is called Make it unafraid. It's this, it's this crazy concept of a show that is focused just on primitive survival. They throw two people out in the middle of the wilderness, and you have to survive, they give you like, you get like two to three items, and you have to survive completely enough to survive without and that's all. And it's a very intense situation. I don't think honestly, I don't think there's any other situation that could possibly be more intense than being thrown out in the middle of the woods with literally nothing, you don't even have clothes. And it's not meant to be like a provocative, sexy thing. Because trust me, it is not sexy at all. It is like a disgustingly gross situation. It's meant to be all about survival. So you have to make like your own clothes or figure out ways to fight off the bugs. So that's my, that's my extreme experience in that realm is being on the show, Naked and Afraid I was on it three different times. I survived in South Africa for 40 days, with nothing but I had a knife I had my bow and arrow. And then I did it in the Amazon jungle. I had a knife and I had a fishing line. And then I did it in the Florida Everglades and we had a fire starter and a knife and like a pot, so very limited equipment every time and it was very extreme situations.
Nick VinZant 17:36
The thing that I've always wondered about those shows is like well who's filming that? Are they they have camera people out there.
Melissa Miller 17:42
Very limited camera crew, it is a sound guy, it is a producer and it is a camera guy so you literally have a crew of three people and they get there around 10am and then they leave at 5pm and then it's just you and a video camera and your partner for the entirety of the night so it is very real it's very raw and yeah, you're out there alone. I've had situations where you know it's me and two of my one situation was me and two other partners and we had a fire in our knives and we could hear lions outside of our shelter and there was nobody else in sight so it just like a very real situation. And it is very scary at times
Nick VinZant 18:23
are they just eaten in front of you that's what I would like Bob the camera guys just got his granola bar sitting here and I'm like digging in the mud for
Melissa Miller 18:32
know that so the crew is not allowed to eat me they're not they're not allowed to eat in front of you they're not allowed to like smoke in front of you know that would be that would be torture because yeah all you're thinking about authors to read so I'm only signed up for it so i guess but yeah, that would be pretty lame but they were like eating stuff in front of us but now they're not even allowed to like drink water from us.
Nick VinZant 18:56
Like I can just see like cute and Melissa 10 days in starving hungry tired cold and like here's Bob with his McDonald's and three coats showing kindness. Um,
Melissa Miller 19:10
no feel bad for us. If anything, they actually always tell us like oh we feel bad for you. So I don't think they would want to do that to us.
Nick VinZant 19:18
Be pretty tough when it comes to like things that people need. Like what kind of stuff would you recommend like alright, you should have this you should have this you should have this.
Melissa Miller 19:30
If you told me like hey, you're going to need to survive in this area for like a few days before emergency crew finds you I personally with my skill set would prefer like a waterproof fire starter, a good outdoor knife and like a pot for boiling water. Like if I was you know narrowed down to three solid items that could get me through a couple of days. I would want those three items because I can use that knife to build my shelter I can use that Firestarter to create fire. To create heat for myself, and I can use that pot to collect water and to collect into cook food and to cook water to sanitize it.
Nick VinZant 20:09
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?
Melissa Miller 20:12
Oh, okay. Yes.
Nick VinZant 20:14
What skill took you the longest to learn?
Melissa Miller 20:17
Oh, I'm probably be able to create, to build and create a friction fire outside. It involves knowing how to procure the right materials and use the right woods. And it also involves really a specific way, a specific technique to create a bow drill friction fire. That took me quite a while to learn how to do that,
Nick VinZant 20:42
or a lot of those skills. are they hard things to do? Or do people just need to? You just need to know how to do it.
Melissa Miller 20:50
I would say it's about 90% experience. It's not necessarily hard. It's just tedious, very time consuming, and a lot of trial and error, especially when it comes to things like primitive trapping and friction fire.
Nick VinZant 21:05
And primitive trapping is basically kind of like building like rabbits snares or something like that, right?
Melissa Miller 21:11
Yes, yeah. And doing it out of things like map natural materials. So when I say like primitive trapping, I mean, building like an animal trap with like, you have a knife. And that's all you can use in your building everything from natural materials, it's very hard and very time consuming. You know, you see people make like something like these primitive fish baskets. And you'll see him do it on TV. And that something like that takes it takes a whole day just to collect and find the right materials to make it you know, not let alone another day to like weave it and make it properly. So everything it takes time. It's not hard, but it just takes a ton of patience, time, trial and error.
Nick VinZant 21:52
Brains are brawn.
Melissa Miller 21:55
It's definitely brains. I would say we have brains 100% knowledge. Patience is a mental thing. You have to have the right mentality. And but endurance I will say endurance and Fitness is important as well, though I don't want to dismiss, you know,
Nick VinZant 22:10
this one might hit on the nose. Why do you keep getting injured?
Melissa Miller 22:16
Because I like to live a dangerous lifestyle. Yeah, it's a comment. I mean, my hobbies are wilderness survival and like extreme mountain biking. So I guess when those two things combined, you know, downhill mountain biking and wilderness survival. It tends to be kind of a recipe for getting injured.
Nick VinZant 22:40
Of the three places that you were on Naked and Afraid or other places that you've been to, like, what would you say is like, Oh, this is the hardest place to survive.
Melissa Miller 22:48
Hands down a hands down the Amazon rainforest. Rain is super hard to survive. And because it's really hard to keep fire and you need fire to boil water. And you need yet you need fire to cook food. I always tell people I would rather do 60 days in South Africa than 20 days in the Amazon jungle it is it is so much harder to survive in a wet rain. four
Nick VinZant 23:15
most common mistake people will make
Melissa Miller 23:17
not learning how to properly do fire. I think fire like I said fire is my favorite part of primitive survival. And not not knowing how to do fire because you need you just need fire for food. You need fire for water. I would say another big one is not getting shelter up in time. Because if it rains, then you're screwed. If you don't have if you don't have a proper roof over your head, you're just screwed. If you get what overnight you're going to freeze even if it's like 70 degrees during the day, you can be so cold at night if you do not get a shelter over your head as soon as possible.
Nick VinZant 23:58
Have you ever been in a situation where you're like, Oh, this is it?
Melissa Miller 24:02
Oh, yeah. So when I first did Naked and Afraid I got lost in the Amazon forest. I was looking for some food and I got I got totally lost. And I started like doing circles. And it was it was so scary. I started thinking my parents. And then I'm like Melissa, what? And I had to stop and like tell myself what what do you do you stay in place stay in place. This is what you've been teaching people for like years stay in place when you get lost. So I stayed in place. I found a log I sat on it. And like two hours later, I hurt my producers were able to find me by calling my name. It was Yeah. That was one of that was the scariest I've ever been in like a survival situation. And another time was in South Africa. When like I said it was me and my two partners and we could hear we could hear in lines chuffing. I mean there were probably a ways away. We did have a fighter But we could hear them and I was like, it was really scary. Like, you know, when you're we found we later found out that they were actually lines that had previously killed a ranger and in a poacher, so we were pretty upset that they put us in an area with to mandating
Nick VinZant 25:19
small oversight. Small right most dangerous animals, plants or insects.
Melissa Miller 25:30
It's actually believe it or not, it's the smallest things that will drive you the crazies out there. So I'm not particularly afraid of like larger animals, but it's always the little ones that would freak me out the most like when we were in the Amazon, we were in an area where the bullet out was present and they have like the most painful bite on Earth. I would say, though, in terms of larger animals, probably god this is so bad because I was like literally go swimming in the water all the time. The producers hated me because they thought I was gonna die. But the alligators I was like a very alligator infested area. And I would say that they're pretty, pretty dangerous. But I think people when the more you learn about animal behavior, the more you realize that animals they don't want like anything to do with you. They just want you to leave them alone.
Nick VinZant 26:23
What is something that you see other survivalist or survival myth that is out there? That you think like, oh, that's you can't that that's not the right thing.
Melissa Miller 26:34
That you can just create fire by rubbing two sticks together, but there's a ton of weird survival myths out there on yes sucking sucking you can't suck Venom you know out of when a snake bites you. Yeah, that's a that's a really big one.
Nick VinZant 26:48
Here's the one that's either a brilliant question offensive or just weird, since this show is Naked and Afraid. What person man or woman is greater risk of getting something snagged.
Melissa Miller 27:02
So definitely the man in fact there is like, I know that a lot of the Amazon tribes they have actually like it's a it's a contraption where they'll like tie a rope and they'll secure their penis and their sometimes their balls on the in the Amazon tribes they'll secured against their stomach because of fish potentially coming to nibble. Yeah, yeah.
Nick VinZant 27:27
Yeah. Fish.
Melissa Miller 27:31
One of my partners, when we were in the Amazon, he had his balls bitten Several times he I would just go off fuck like your idea of like swearing, he'd be like, I fire it just false. And I just, I felt so bad. So men definitely have much more exposed and especially in a Naked and Afraid situation. Would you say
Nick VinZant 27:52
like in the survival communities like, oh, who would probably like our men more equipped? Are women more equipped? Or is it pretty much just equal?
Melissa Miller 28:03
And I'm not. So I'm not just saying this, because I'm a girl. But I do think that women have an easier time with the survival situation. And I think it's just because genetically our bodies are built to, we have naturally we also have more fat stores than men. And we, from my experiences on the show, women tend to deal better with caloric restriction than men. And I think a lot of that that is just set up in our biology. We also are, and I don't want to confirm this, but I've heard many times that women just have a higher pain tolerance, because, you know, the fact that we have to give childbirth to so I personally think that, at least on the show, it would seem that women had the ones that I came across handled a bit more of a easier time, actually. And I will say that we also have just I think throughout life, I know I personally had experience with like diet and more dieting and more calorie restriction. So I was like, prepared, you know, compared to like, my, one of my partners, and one of the challenges who was used to eating like 4000 calories a day. I was like, Oh, this is just like an extreme diet. Well, I've never done that extreme of a diet, but you know what I mean? Yeah, I think I think biologically women's bodies are set up a little bit better, to tolerate pain and to tolerate a starvation.
Nick VinZant 29:31
Strangest thing you've ever eaten. While out there.
Melissa Miller 29:35
There's been so many weird things that I've eaten. Well, let's name a few. I've eaten turtles, monitor lizards, IV in Antelope testicles. I've eaten warthog brain, warthog, eyeballs. I've eaten all sorts of snakes, lizards. And that's just to name a
Nick VinZant 29:55
few which one tasted the best?
Melissa Miller 29:59
The most Omniture egg, it was like so monitor lizards are these type of eggs found in Africa. And it could have just been because I was really hungry but man, it was delicious yolk. I also had liver like antelope. It was like the liver and that was really good. And surprisingly, the Warthog brain to me, it tasted quite delicious. It was like this fatty tissue. It was it was kind of like it's like weird because normally in my day to day life, I would not want to eat any of that stuff. But when you're hungry, it tastes everything kind of tastes like a delicacy.
Nick VinZant 30:36
That's pretty much all the questions that we got is what's kind of coming up next for you.
Melissa Miller 30:41
Well, Nick, I have a whole summer of mountain biking planning. And as of most recently, I'm getting ready for blade show. I work for this company called blade show and we are the world's largest knife show. And it comes to Atlanta, Georgia, June 3 through fifth. And it's like 1000 Knife companies, you know 10s of 1000s of people there you got swords kitchen knives, there's like after parties demos invalid like a lot of blacksmith all the forged people all the people from the show fortune fire there and all the there's a lot of Naked and Afraid people there a lot of outdoor knife like a lot of outdoor celebrities come there. So if you like knives, you should come to Atlanta, Georgia, June 3 through fourth. And I'll be at blade show as well too. So people can Yeah, come see me there. That's that's the big project in the work right now is our is our life show. So