Celebrity Hair Stylist Wendy Iles

From Heidi Klum and Jennifer Lopez, to Sharon Stone and Elton John, Wendy Iles is a hair stylist to the stars. We talk hair secrets, working with celebrities, building a company and finding the courage to chase your dreams. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Farm Animals.

Disasterologist Dr. Samantha Montano

Dr. Samantha Montano studies disasters. And from Covid-19 and Climate Change, to hurricanes and wildfires, we've been having a lot of disasters. We talk pandemic preparedness, looming threats and disaster movies. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Most Important Things in Your Bathroom.

Fetish Wrestler Miss Scorpion

She'll pin you down, rub her feet on your face, put you in a chokehold and you'll pay her to do it. Miss Scorpion joins us as we explore the world of Session Wrestling. We talk wrestling holds, ballbusting and Peter Pan requests. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Kinds of Nuts.

Interview with Session Wrestler Miss Scorpion

Nick VinZant 0:11

Hey everybody, welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant coming up in this episode, a unique kind of wrestling, and the best nuts.

Miss Scorpion 0:22

They want to be overpowered by a strong, perhaps muscular woman using some elements of martial arts skills. And some people, they just want it, they just want to feel it a little bit, but then other people that you are like, you're really putting him in a lot of pain, especially. And this is any men listening, especially for the ballbusting clients. He wanted me to run over his penis with my car.

Nick VinZant 0:51

I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, like, download, subscribe, share, we really appreciate it, it really helps us out. Our first guest is fascinating. absolutely fascinating. There's no other way to put it. So let's get right to her. This is session wrestler Miss scorpion. What is session wrestling,

Miss Scorpion 1:13

I would put us in the wider domination world. And a typical exchange would be somebody coming to see me for an hour. And they want to be overpowered by a strong, perhaps muscular a woman using some elements of martial arts skills.

Nick VinZant 1:35

How did you kind of get into it?

Miss Scorpion 1:38

I had a good business. I was running a cookery school and catering business. But it left me very tied as to where and when I could earn a living. But in the meantime, just for my personal interest I'd gone on am a dominatrix course just for because I wasn't home in London, I want to explore like the kink side of things. So I've gone a dominatrix course with a lady in London called Kim Rob. And I thought it was going to be like, Oh, this is how you spank somebody, this how you tie somebody up, I thought was going to be quite generic. And this is how you do things sort of for a home user. Obviously, I really, really really hadn't read the course material at all. And I got to hit and it was really about becoming a pro Dom like a professional dominatrix. Like to our core. beginning I was really like, have my notebook and I was like, Okay, yeah, Uh huh. So I need my name. Okay. Yep. Mm hmm. Being a good girl taking all my notes. And by the end of it when she was going into like, and these are the sorts of thing sorts of services that different people are offering. I was literally like, jaw on the floor. You're like, I am in way of my head here. It was like a certain aspects of it. I was like, this sounds really good than others when she was like, okay, yes. So some people they offer like cysteine as a service, or they're doing like water sports or hard sports, and I was just literally like, the greenest person on the planet. Like, what's that?

Nick VinZant 3:13

You didn't quite know what you were getting signed up for? Hmm.

Miss Scorpion 3:17

I was literally like, she must have thought you Why did you not read what this is gonna be about? But I was we talked more she said, you know, you could be really good at this because I was used to running my own business. I'm used to dealing with people like a one to one like consultation aspect. I'm really highly motivated. And it would sort of tick the boxes for me regarding what I wanted from a business. And so I explored the sort of more what I would call the more traditional dominatrix work world a little bit. And, but it wasn't really for me, mainly because Nick involves wearing high heels a lot. And I really, really, really hate wearing high heels. I don't if you ever have you ever worn high heels yourself? I have not. I have not even just tried them on one day. And you'll be like, Oh, yeah, okay. Couldn't do this professionally.

Nick VinZant 4:18

So because of that you kind of trained you geared more towards the wrestling side of it, then.

Miss Scorpion 4:23

Yes. As Kim said, oh, there's this thing called session wrestling. I was like, Oh, what's that? And she explained it to me. Okay, so it's more of like a physical domination. And I trained jujitsu and Thai boxing and boxing in my early 20s. So I was like, Oh, it's just jujitsu. She was like, Yeah, I was like, right. Okay. I can definitely do that. That for me is just such a natural fit for me is just you just bullying people which I do used to do for free anyway, like rugby, tackle your friends when you're on a night out and things like that. You're just doing it. You're getting paid, and you're wearing really, really good outfits that don't involve heels.

Nick VinZant 5:04

So like a typical, is it? Is it a session? Was that the the correct word or what word? Should I use them?

Miss Scorpion 5:11

Yeah, a session. Yeah.

Nick VinZant 5:13

So a typical session, kind of walk me through that, like, What is? How does that go?

Miss Scorpion 5:19

Let's go for Nick as the newbie as an example. So Nick, when he gets in touch, he says, I've seen loads of your videos online, but I've never had an in person session before. I will be in London. In two weeks time, please, book an appointment with you? And I'm like, Yes, of course, you can, you've already really got in touch with a really kind of nice polite email, which is very important. If there's any guys listening who are thinking about sessioning, the initial email, very important. So I will go back and say, okay, the specific so Okay, you've watched some videos with a thing, some things in a video that you really like that you want to try. So you might say, Oh, and I really like, like legs and feet, I'd really like to try what we call like these things called head scissors, where you're basically getting your neck crushed by some nice firm legs. And very popular in my world. They want to feel like my feet on their face and be forced in what are their little abbreviation remarks before quote, unquote, to like, worship my feet, like kiss my feet and things like this. So we'll already have before the session starts, I'll have an idea of what you want to try. So and then you might have an outfit request. I am. So lots of people have come to me like shiny pantyhose, you guys would call it in America tights for us. So I will, within reason fulfill an outfit request. My best outfit request ever has been to dress as Peter Pan.

Nick VinZant 6:57

That's really injured. That's a good one, though, right?

Miss Scorpion 7:00

I think in in the American market. There's lots more cosplay requests than in the UK. In Europe. It's not so much about the outfit. Yeah. So when I got the Peter Pan requests, I was like, Oh, this guy's really thought about this. This is good. Did you do the hat and everything? Everything? He ordered that outfit for me and brought that outfit? I was had top to toe in Greenfelt,

Nick VinZant 7:24

that is a strong look.

Miss Scorpion 7:31

Yeah, I mean, I, I haven't had to wear it for anything else yet. But you never know.

Nick VinZant 7:38

Now, is it? Do you just tackle them? Like, are you wrestling back and forth for control necessarily?

Miss Scorpion 7:46

Like it seems like an adult. And so in the Wrestling World, there's sort of different degrees of how intense your exchange will be. So what are the main categories or main categories are like a fantasy session that the newbie might be like, I'm not going to resist at all, I just want the fantasy of maybe you want me to wear my jujitsu uniform, that's a popular request as well, especially for someone that's into feet. So I'd be wearing my like jujitsu gi, and you would offer any resistance at all, I would just put you in positions, I'll be putting my feet on your face. And that's at a level that some people are really interested in, they don't want to feel any pain. They just want this real fantasy, this, this feeling of domination, but it's very much more emotional. And then after that you would go to semi competitive where, for me the rules for that are and you can you will actively defend yourself. But you don't try and put any moves on me. Very often. When I'm setting with people, they don't have any martial arts experience. So for them to try and put submissions on me is actually really, really dangerous because they don't know how like, joints operate properly, and what is the correct amount of like, okay, we start off with gentle pressure and then gradually increase. And so generally semi competitive is the level that I would, I would allow a new person to wrestle at, because it's much, much safer. And that's so the next option after that is like a fully competitive session where you could put attacks on me as well. But that's where you're most likely to get injured. Like I've had a few injuries when I've allowed people to do competitive sessions, so I generally don't take competitive sessions anymore.

Nick VinZant 9:46

In a competitive session. Is it really like you and another person potentially really, like trying to wrestle each other? Or is it still kind of like,

Miss Scorpion 9:56

yeah, I'm trying but I'm not really trying all the people That sexual muscle they know like someone comes in and you just see it in their eyes that they're like, this is like the UFC to them and no girl, no, go for it. And you just think, Oh, I'm gonna have to like, you give them a talk at the beginning. It's normally someone that's new and you say, Listen, you know, this is a fantasy scenario. We don't want anyone to get hurt. Yes, we want to have like a really physical session. But just like, breathe. But you get into it. And you can tell especially when you they're so hyped. they've watched so many videos for so many years, and they're really, really hyped. And then you just have to say, like, Whoa, like, timeout, like you need to, you need to relax. I've had people like, I had a guy and I was I had his back and I had him down on the, like, he was facedown on the floor. And he just, he was like a power lifter. He came up and he I was still on his back. And he slammed me onto the floor with him on top of me. Did that to me like three times. And I was just like, okay, you damage my shoulder? Thanks. Yeah, that was the last competitive session. I did. Actually I was about two years ago. I was just like, now like, I don't need to do this. The most annoying thing is like the flying elbow to the teeth. Ideal.

Nick VinZant 11:15

Now when you when you kind of do the wrestling moves, are we talking about like college wrestling? Like Olympic wrestling kind of stuff? Or are we talking like WWE? off the top rope? Kind of wrestling?

Miss Scorpion 11:29

Good question. There this again, it depends on the person. So I, I have training, I have some training in what you would call your college wrestling over here we would be at court like our Greco Roman or something, or freestyle, and I have some Brazilian Jiu Jitsu training. So that's more your submissions. Like an like people have watched UFC they've seen like a rear naked choke or an armbar or something like that. And by also have some pro wrestling training as well. And in the fetish world. There's particular moves, which people really like, and they're probably the more like old school moves. Like, did you watch any pro wrestling when you were younger? Uh, huh. Did you watch like the Iron Sheik and he was like, with a camel clutch.

Nick VinZant 12:20

I the camel clutch is familiar, right? That's the one where like, the person is on the ground, and you've got their chin and their arms are like, on your knees or something? Yes.

Miss Scorpion 12:30

Yes, exactly. So that's a really popular one people like things where their bodies stretched out, or you great find them and like split their legs is anything where they're in some sort of like tortured agony? Yeah, because then quite a lot of my clients will be like a masochist as well. So they're quite like some pain element to it.

Nick VinZant 12:54

For those kind of clients, like, on a scale of one to 1010 being the highest one being the lowest, how much would you say that you're necessarily hurting them?

Miss Scorpion 13:05

Again, it depends on the person, some people, they just want it, they just want to feel it a little bit. But then other people that you are like, you're really putting them in a lot of pain, especially. And this is any men listening, especially for the ballbusting clients. This there's there's a lot of pain being dished out there. And even sometimes I'm thinking, Wow, you can really take it.

Nick VinZant 13:29

So you're really kind of getting after it.

Miss Scorpion 13:31

Oh, yeah. I've had like people, a guy on all fours and like soccer kicked him to the nuts. Oh, yeah.

Nick VinZant 13:40

So look, we don't that will be a request. This this is something that our personal views on this podcast is whatever you want to do, you're not hurting anybody against their well. However you get down is however, however you get down. But in I think the thing that stands out to me is I'm not are they? Are your clients deriving pleasure from the pain or from the domination? Like what is it that keeps them coming back?

Miss Scorpion 14:08

Are we talking specifically about the ballbusting guys, or just them in general? Or the months in general?

Nick VinZant 14:13

The ballbusting is something that I have not heard of before. So I'm, I'm curious. I'm not. I always I mean, I've seen things I didn't think it was one of those things that like oh, people actually did that. And again, like however you get down is however you get down. I guess I don't I don't quite understand it. They're just looking for the pain of it.

Miss Scorpion 14:35

Yeah, yeah, but they wouldn't be it's the pain and then they'll have specifics about who is administering the pain as well. So I think it's like a big hairy man offer to kick them in the balls, it wouldn't be quite the same as like, what they perceive to be like a hot woman. Ah, is is that a common request? Um, I'd say maybe like one in 2120. But I do make ballbusting videos and they are very popular. I think the fantasy of the ballbusting is a lot more popular than the actual reality of it is like, because I guess that's a big thing. Like when when they say a woman has you by the balls, that is like her. It really means every single man knows what that means.

Nick VinZant 15:30

Right? You're, you're in total control of your most prized possession. Yes,

Miss Scorpion 15:35

exactly.

Can you like from a physical standpoint? I don't know what words to use here, necessarily. So give me like, some leeway on this phrasing. I think you know, you can ask, are you? Are you uh, are you a bigger woman? Like? Are you physically imposing like, do you? Do you look more? Or is it more that you look like you could really do something? Or can you really do something right? And in terms of like, dominate?

You asked me if I'm Matt hench. I'm all for the mice. I'm five foot seven. And I weigh about 70 kilos, which is probably like 150 pounds. I'm probably I know, I guess some people would look at me and think I'm physically imposing have pretty hefty size or like 25 inch thighs. In the summer, I have a six pack, not now because it's cold. And I like eating chocolate cake in when it's cold. And yeah, I'm reasonably buff. But also i'm, i'm really trained in martial arts. So my favorite thing is, guys, they'll come this like a guy. And I forget it was when I was working in Switzerland one time, he was this young, like kind of cocky French guys about 25. And he was like, in his email, you can always tell them the email, they can be a bit cocky. So be like, I'm very fit. I play football, like four times a week, and I go to the gym. And, you know, you can tell in between the lines of saying, so I'll kind of let you beat me. I would like, Okay, all right. And then we get into the session. And it always happens like about, I have like a bit of a I like to start a session in a certain way with a guy like that. So I like to score the first point really, really quickly, like literally within 30 seconds. And you can tell they're like, Oh my god, I thought they were gonna have to like, let me score a point. But I'll just really like stick it to them early on. And then the next point, I like to really kind of make them suffer. So I'll have them pinned down in a really awkward position. And maybe they'll think they can get out. But I'll just keep them there and really tie them out for about five minutes. And then I'll like, maybe shit, talk them a little bit. And then I'll put the submission on a bit. And then I'll see they're about to tap. So I'll let it off a little bit. They'll put it on a letter or put it off until they're like begging. And then I'll like I'll score my second point. And then you just see that eyes just this look that I just like, Oh, fuck.

Nick VinZant 18:25

Good for you. Good for you. Yeah, you're

Miss Scorpion 18:28

just like, Oh, no. And then. And then they always say the same thing. They're like, I thought the videos were fake. And I'm like, I see that in your face. And now you've got another 55 minutes and I'm gonna fuck you up.

Nick VinZant 18:43

Like, so I'm probably would be one of those guys where I'd be like, all right, sure. Right, because men are just naturally we're used to being a woman. Right? We are definitely like that. And I don't know, if I was there ever. Like, oh my gosh, she's fucking me up. Okay, I'll just kind of ask this directly then necessarily, like, if it's a sexual thing. How are they? Where are they getting the release? Like, are you doing that? Are they going home and doing that? Do you have a like a side room? They go do that or how does that kind of work?

Miss Scorpion 19:16

And that is in my presence. There is no release whatsoever. What I'm sure the very second they step in their house. They're doing whatever they need to do. But no, I do not. I remember someone emailed me and they were like, Oh, so I'd like to wrestle with you. And then after you've beaten me, could you like, get me off? And I was like, Listen, Mister, I will beat you. But if anyone's gonna get off after I win, it would be me. I when I get what I want. However, I will do whatever I want my own private time. You are just getting beaten and then hoof out the door.

Nick VinZant 19:56

Is that is that your personal um code so to speak, or is that kind of common throughout the industry are the different, different wrestlers do? Do it differently? Like some might engage in that?

Miss Scorpion 20:09

Everyone's totally different? Yeah, everyone's totally different. Like, for example, and that is one thing I really, really love about working the fetish interest industry, because they're like, the options for what you can offer are gigantic. And you can literally just pick and choose. So for example, I used to offer competitive wrestling, which very few wrestlers do. So that was like something unusual that I did. And then I have some experience with bondage wrestling, where you like wrestling, and then you tie your the person actively tie them up as you're going, which is something that other people wouldn't do. But then other people might do more stuff in the what I would call like, the sexy end of things. And so, and then maybe they do like strap on and stuff as well, which is something I'm just like, no nudity, anything that involves clothes on, I will consider, I might still say no to some requests. But that is my like, big limit is the the nudity.

Nick VinZant 21:13

Was that always the case? Or was that something that developed later on?

Miss Scorpion 21:17

No, that's always been my limit. When it comes to me doing this work. Like I really, really love it. And it's always been this, for me is just a really natural boundary that is makes it very, very enjoyable for me. Like I know that anybody could walk through my door, and I could have a session with them. But if there was like, oh, what about if it was like slightly sexier? I'll be like, Oh, well, not him and not him and not him and not you either. And now not him either. So that just makes it is. Now I don't want to do that professionally.

Nick VinZant 21:57

How do you kind of protect your safety? Like, are you doing this out of your house?

Miss Scorpion 22:03

So I either session from I have a studio in London or a session when I'm like touring, which could be in Europe or the US or further afield. I get deposits from people, which will be so that's traceable, you know, like electronic payment is traceable. And then I have like, other screening processes as well during your initial email phase.

Nick VinZant 22:27

Have you ever had somebody show up? And then you just been Nope, nope, sorry.

Miss Scorpion 22:32

I had I think I've only ever had I had one guy turn up and his personal hygiene was really bad. And even though so when he arrived I said to him, okay, so there's a shower, in you go and I heard the shower go on. But he came out and his personal hygiene was still really bad. And I was like, Oh, they have a tricky one really, because I I looked at his skin and I thought maybe he has some sort of like medical condition because some people, especially if you do Jiu Jitsu you know that some people, people smell different. However, I was okay, because for that session, he requests I wear a cat suit. So I knew we wouldn't have any skin on skin contact. And he'd also requested to get tied up. So I just tied him up really quickly and sort of like died around the place. So I didn't have to have any any contact. Now how much what are your rates essentially?

Nick VinZant 23:20

Like how much does somebody charge for this?

Miss Scorpion 23:24

Do you want my rate in euros? shekels pounds dollars?

Nick VinZant 23:30

Well, as an American, I am solely I am ignorant of anything else going on? Can I have any other thing in the world?

Miss Scorpion 23:43

That sentence ends that the the my dollar rate, I think at the moment is 375 an hour. So that would be in pounds, you're about 250 maybe 260.

Nick VinZant 23:57

So this can this can be a pretty comfortable full time living, I would assume

Miss Scorpion 24:02

you have to work hard at it because it's there's quite a lot of people doing it now. And you can't just I can't expect to sit in London and like it maybe if I'm in London for a month I'll I'll have maybe maybe 10 hours of clients in a month. But I'll be in London to film. So that's like my main income is the filming.

Nick VinZant 24:25

Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?

Miss Scorpion 24:30

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Nick VinZant 24:31

What is your typical client like?

Miss Scorpion 24:34

Are there's really I think there's I think there's a bit of a myth around the type of man that goes to see a dominatrix or you know, somebody like me who's in the domination world. My clients, I won't see anyone under the age of 21. So my clients age from 21 up to the oldest person I've ever seen, which was arranged for me by somebody else was 75. I didn't really Who's gonna be 75? I got there and he was 75. And I thought Damn, I do not want a session with you again, because I was worried that he was going to like die.

Nick VinZant 25:11

If they if they fit a certain professional kind of model like, are they usually more or?

Miss Scorpion 25:17

No, there's no particular socio economic grouping, you will see slightly more people who have got slightly more money just because of you know, it's in the day, it's a luxury service. But I've had someone come to see me that worked as a, like a pop washer in the kitchen. He would just save up and he would have like one session a year. What is your fate? Do

Nick VinZant 25:38

you have a finishing move? And if so, what is your favorite? Ooh,

Miss Scorpion 25:43

okay, good question. My favorite move is the rear naked choke with the body triangle likes my ultimate favorite, because you're like crushing their ribs. And then you're like, crushing their neck as well. And you're in such a dominant position when you're on their back to. It's really, really good. I used to use that. And I remember when I was training Jiu Jitsu at my, at the gym in London. And I mean, this guy, we're about the same standard is this. This French guy, we're both blue belts. And so we'd always have like, a pretty good like, ding dong match. And then we were rolling, but the other people in the class like watching us, and I caught him in this move. And you could tell he didn't while it's happening. He was making nice noises for like a minute like that eventually taught, but he said a really funny comment. He was like, Oh, I feel like I feel like that's my terrible French accent. I felt like James Bond when it we think it's Xeni on a top like, crushes him to death, I don't remember during mid scene. But I couldn't stop laughing because in the session Wrestling World that is like, a scene that got a lot of guys into session wrestling, because it was like, they saw this like sexy, powerful woman, like crush this guy. And they were like, God, damn, that is like, that's what I like. I've just seen what I like on film.

Nick VinZant 27:11

I would imagine it's kind of a world where people would be like, I did not know that about myself.

Miss Scorpion 27:17

Yeah. And I think it's like, suddenly you saw something and you're like, Oh, hold on a minute. This is I've had these feelings like, especially when, because those people who were like kinky that they that these feelings have been coming up from when they were very, very young. So you kind of had these feelings, but you can't, you can't really like put your finger on it. And then suddenly, you've watched a movie or you've read a comic or something. And you're like, Oh, that is that.

Nick VinZant 27:46

Are your clients? Are they shy about it?

Miss Scorpion 27:50

I'll give you some examples. So so one guy, he really really loved pro wrestling. And so I would meet him like a pro wrestling ring. And I would wear like, the shiny wrestling boots and the shiny tights and the shiny leotard. And we do some of like the like the camel clutch and things like that some of the progress and moves that we discuss. And, and I was like to like, chat to people. Afterwards, I was chatting to him. And one of the things he said he was like, all cold like really, really enjoyed this. But I'd be so so ashamed if my friends found out what I was doing. And I was like, you'd be ashamed if your friends found out you like rolling around with a hot woman in a sexy outfit. He was like, Oh, well, when you put like, that doesn't sound quite so bad. I was like, exactly.

Nick VinZant 28:38

I've never understood this social stigma around people's various kind of kinks. like everybody's got something. Yeah,

Miss Scorpion 28:47

yeah, I think there's, there's there's so much there's so much shame and stigma around desire. Yeah, they base it really hard for people. I know, like a guy that I dated like a little while back. He was really, really, really, really submissive. And he grown up in this like, tiny little town in Devon. And he was literally like, before the internet, and he lives literally like, I'm the only person in the world that's like this, you know, especially when we're in such like a male dominated society, like he would have been growing up in like the late mid mid to late 70s. And to be to say, Oh, I want a woman to be in charge. Like, what's wrong with you?

Nick VinZant 29:32

I would imagine can it be therapeutic for people?

Miss Scorpion 29:35

Yeah, he ended up having some like massive addiction problems because of because of these desires. And him literally been like, I'm the only person on the planet, there's must be something wrong with me. And then he went through a lot of therapy. And he's like, Oh, it's okay. I'm submissive. This is this is alright. Obviously it's slightly longer process than that. But yeah, hugely cathartic for him? Good for him? Yeah. Yeah. But sadly, there is a lot of shame around it for people for some some of my clients and like, I'm sure it's the same for other session methods I know. And dominatrixes and other fetish providers will be the only people that our clients will really speak to about their desires. most frequent request, most interesting request. most frequent request, I'd say it's definitely like this scissor hold thing. So it's just wanting to feel like the power of the killer. sighs Yeah. So maybe they want to feel like your legs, like crushing their ribs or their neck. Yeah, scissor hold. Google it. And then most interesting requests was the second one.

Nick VinZant 30:57

Yes, yes.

Miss Scorpion 30:59

Does this mean most interesting requests that I have fulfilled? Because you get like, you get loads of like, requests that you're like, Ooh, that's a bit kooky, but then you think you're probably a time waster. So yeah, some of them are like, madness. Yeah. Like the man, I'll give you the Okay, I'll give you one which was definitely a time waster but hilarious. And he wanted me to, he wanted me to run over his penis with my car. Which is, when you really think about it, I was like, Well, how are you going to do that? Like, I'm assuming he's an, you know, even if he's a very well endowed man, yeah, you'd have you like, on the edge of the pavement? And I'm gonna think, or am I gonna have to bury him? And then that's just sticking out. I didn't reply to his email, but I have saved it in the special folder, which I will be creating my book from.

Nick VinZant 32:04

Yeah, that's logistically, how do you even you'd have to be you'd have to be gifted in that regard, I think. Yeah. And also, like, you got to do it in a you couldn't do it like in public, necessarily, at least not without a lot of people wondering.

Miss Scorpion 32:25

Yeah, yeah, I was like, I think logistically, that's gonna be tricky, so I'm gonna say no. And yeah, so most interesting quest that I have fulfilled. I think the thing is, once you're in this world for a while, everything becomes like okay, yeah, so, okay, I get maybe maybe the pizza pan won, because the outfit was really like, really cool. And I had to be pizza pan. But I also had to do like pizza pan impressions. Which I will not do for you now. Because I haven't you know, warmed up my voice or anything. By to pizza pan impressions. Yeah, and he had a real foot fetish, then he would like the game was he would try cuz I had like the green tights and then like the green felt shoes, he would try and like wrestle, and he would try and take my felt shoes off.

Nick VinZant 33:15

Oh, that's another one I've like I've never quite just under was never my thing, necessarily was. I don't really have one at least so that's why I'm kind of like, come on. I want to know what it's gonna be. Like, someday.

Miss Scorpion 33:35

But they just think they just think it's normal. So like, in British culture in like, the 80s and 90s. It was like, big tits. Everyone, like big tits. And it was like, if you'd said, Oh, but that girl's got like a really like a really she got a really nice but like a nice big, but people have been like, but really like, a big tits culture here. So you're a bit strange. And she said, Oh, I think she's got really nice big feet ever been like, Whoa, okay. Now becoming accepted. And also in the 80s. If you'd said, Oh, I like that girl. She's really muscley people have been like, oh, you're gay. But now CrossFit. And everyone's like, Damn, that girl is like Bob, she's so sexy.

Nick VinZant 34:19

In it strange how things change like that. Right?

Miss Scorpion 34:23

So Nick, that is your homework to work out what your thing is.

Nick VinZant 34:28

Oh, I'm like, oh, someday I'll have a thing of like, I did not know that about myself. Um, um, is this a growing or shrinking industry?

Miss Scorpion 34:40

kink in general is becoming more acceptable. Like we're kind of discussing like, I think I was having this conversation like 30 years ago. People have been like, Oh my god, I heard the craziest, craziest thing. And now people be like, Oh, sure. wrestler. This is interesting. Oh, I was talking. I have another friend who's a sex worker. can go, it's like, people are becoming a lot more open. So I think there'll be more people who perhaps would have kept it as like their dirty little secret will now be getting like brave enough to explore it.

Nick VinZant 35:13

That's really all the questions I got. Do you have anything, anything you think we missed? Or what's coming up next for you? How can people get a hold of yet,

Miss Scorpion 35:21

because at the moment, the corona situation in the UK is really, really bad. So I'm just sort of sitting it out. So maybe I'll go back in session in May. But in the meantime, I'm making films again. So I'm back filming. And I'll just do that until, until I can go back again, filming the bigger part of my business. Anyway, I'd

Nick VinZant 35:42

say that's maybe 70% of my income. I want to thank Miss Scorpion for joining us if you want to connect with her, we have a link to her on our social media accounts. We're Profoundly Pointless on Instagram and Twitter. And we have also included her information in this episode description.

Stunt Driver Olivia Summers

From blockbuster movies to super sleek TV commercials, Stunt Driver Olivia Summers has been behind the wheel for some of your favorite action scenes. We talk stunt driving, life in Hollywood and parallel parking. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Things We Won't Brought Back.

Independent Journalist Brendan Gutenschwager

You've seen the chaotic scenes splashed across your screen. But what's the real story behind the protests, riots and rallies gripping the nation. Journalist Brendan Gutenschwager was there, filming on the front lines from Portland to Washington D.C. We talk news coverage, media bias and protest chants. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Utensils.

Birder Jason Ward

Staring out the window of a homeless shelter, Jason Ward watched nature come alive. It was in that moment that he found his passion. We talk Birding, the rejuvenating power of nature and scary bird movies. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Birds.

NFL Agent Chris Turnage

From multi-million dollar contract negotiations to recruiting horror stories, we're exploring a different side of football. NFL Agent Chris Turnage joins us. We talk agent life, the secret to successful negotiations and the dark side of the NFL. Then we countdown the Top 5 Dipping Sauces.

Robot Psychiatrist Dr. Joanne Pransky

Robotics expert Dr. Joanne Pransky is the world's first Robot Psychiatrist. What does that mean? Join us and find out as we talk sad robot companions, missing human connections and a cyborg future. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Fictional Robots.

Acrobat Scott McDonald

As a kid he ran around pretending to be a Ninja. Now, he defies gravity on a Cirque du Soleil stage. Acrobat Scott McDonald joins us. We talk circus life, movement culture and overcoming fear. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Flavor Combinations. Please leave a review if you like the show.

Graphologist Emma Bache

Are the secrets of your personality revealed in your handwriting? Graphologist Emma Bache joins us as we explore what your handwriting says about you. We talk What does your handwriting say about you? We talk handwriting analysis, hidden secrets and psychopaths. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Small Things That Say A Lot About You.

Futurist Brian David Johnson

Will 2021 be better than 2020 or worse? Futurist Brian David Johnson joins us to breakdown what we can expect in the new year and beyond. We talk the world post-covid, the rise of sentient tools and how you can change the future. Then, we countdown the Best of 2020.

Algorithm Expert Marc Faddoul

From social media stardom and job applications, to crime prevention and bank loans, algorithms are playing an ever greater role in our lives. But do we really understand what we've created? Algorithm and Artificial Intelligence Researcher Marc Faddoul joins us. We talk social media algorithms, disinformation and computerized bias. Then, a special online Top 5.

Star Researcher Dr. Anna Frebel

The secrets of the early Universe are locked inside their ancient cores, she's trying to find them. Astronomer and Stellar Archaeologist Dr. Anna Frebel joins us. We talk discovering 13 billion year old stars, what the beginning of the Universe was like and which star would require the most sunscreen. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Space Related Things.

Ice Climber Will Gadd

Hanging hundreds of feet in the air, Will Gadd swings his axe into an icicle clinging to the side of a frozen waterfall. It's a world filled with danger, self-discovery and unimaginable beauty. We talk Ice Climbing, managing risk and his next big project. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Deli Meats.

Blake's Naked Story

As a Nudist, Blake lives in two worlds. One where he feels free and another where he's confined. It's what inspired him to become a leading Nudist Advocate. We talk nudism, judgement and inspiring the next generation of nudists. Then, we bare it all in a special Top 5.

World Champion Tree Climber Mark Chisholm

Whether he's racing up a rope, leaping from limb to limb or skillfully swinging a saw, Mark Chisholm has spent his life in trees. We talk the secret to competitive tree climbing, life as an arborist and the best trees in the world. Then, it's a special sporty Top 5.

Marine Archaeologist Peter Campbell

Ancient shipwrecks, sunken cities, pirates and treasure, this is the life of Marine Archaeologist Peter Campbell. We talk ancient discoveries, dangers beneath the waves, stolen artifacts and Atlantis. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Things You Know You Should Do But Don't.

Fetish Companion Katana Thorne

It's an old profession but she's added a new twist, fulfilling fantasies on the edges of imagination. Professional Companion Katana Thorne joins us. We talk sex work, fetishes and more. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Scary Monsters.

Wildfire Researcher Dr. Mike Flannigan

Lives lost, forests burned, billions of dollars in damages. We are facing a future filled with flames, Wildfire Researcher Dr. Mike Flannigan is trying to figure out how to stop it. We talk climate change, fire tornadoes and historic wildfires

Interview with Wildfire Researcher Dr. Mike Flannigan

Speakers

Nick VinZant: Profoundly Pointless Host

Dr. Mike Flannigan: Wildfire Researcher

Nick VinZant 0:13

Hey everybody, welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, fire tornadoes and Nicolas Cage

Dr. Mike Flannigan 0:23 on average, we're going to see a lot more fire. And the thing is, there's no vaccine for wildfires, we have to learn to live with these fires, and associated smoke. These are high intensity fires. And flames can be hundreds of feet in size. And these are the ones that are possible to extinguish. And this is where we're moving. Because you know, people say, hey, if we keep on getting more fire, the trees won't be able to handle it. And they're absolutely right, the trees will disappear. But what will replace it shops or grass. So in some respects, we're moving to a grass world as we see more and more fire, grass is gonna be the winner, and grass can burn every year.

Nick VinZant 1:05 I want to thank you guys so much for joining us. If you get a chance, like, download, subscribe, share, we really appreciate it, it really helps us out. So I don't want to sound dramatic. Because I think if you turn on the news, if you look at social media, the world is ending every day. Right? But the more I talked to our first guests, the more I learned about this subject, the more I just kept thinking, Man, this sounds really bad. We should really be doing something about this. Because it is something that we've heard a lot about recently, historic fire after historic fire lives lost forest burn billions of dollars in property damage. But there is a solution. It's just going to take a lot of work. Our first guest is an expert in wildland fires, and what we can do about them. This is Dr. Mike Flannigan, when we look at wildfires now I keep hearing this, it's historic, its historic, are these really historic? Or is this the new normal for us?

Dr. Mike Flannigan 2:13 Now, I would use the term unprecedented, as well as historic for some regions like California and Australia should go back in time before our modern records. There are indications that, you know, the landscape did burn frequently. But, you know, there was a lot of grass in the valley. It's now a culture. So it's kind of comparing apples to oranges. So yes, these are, we're in uncharted territory. You know, some people like to say new normal, I don't like that, because there's nothing normal about this new reality, perhaps things are going to get worse and worse. So that's why I don't like normal,

Nick VinZant 2:54 when you say things are going to get worse and worse kind of helped me understand in terms of Alright, one, everything's fine. teen, this is the worst it could possibly be. Like, where are we at right now? Where do you think we're gonna be in the foreseeable future?

Dr. Mike Flannigan 3:11 Where we're, you know, we're probably seven or eight. But there's, there's room in the scale may go beyond 10. That's what we're afraid of. And I don't want to give the impression now, like, there was terms like apocalyptic in the newspapers, when those orangey reddish guys from all the smoke. Not every year is gonna be like this year, okay, some years are gonna be cooler, some years gonna be wider. But on average, we're going to see a lot more fire. And the thing is, there's no vaccine for wildfires. We have to learn to live with these fires, and associated smoke. So you know, why am I saying all this? Well, the research that I have done, and May my colleagues have found a relationship between temperature and wildfire. And here I'm talking about the warmer get the more fire we see. And people say, Well, why is temperature so important? And here I'm not talking about individual fire like the campfire or the Creek Fire, where wind and the day to day weather plays a major role. I'm talking about a larger area, like California, over a longer period of time, like a month or fire season. And there's kind of three reasons and you may find out fire people love threes. The warmer it gets, the longer the fire season. The fire season stirred earlier this year in California, as it did in Australia. Last year's fire season for them. The warmer get the more lightning you see the more lightning you see the more lightning talk fires. You see, enlightening played a major role in the Australian fires. And in this historic unprecedented California wildfire season. The third reason is probably the most convoluted the probably the most important as that Pure warms. And this summer, it was a record breaking heat wave for the southwestern United States, including California, the more efficient The air is, it's sucking the moisture out of fuel. And unless there's some rain to compensate for this drying effect, our fuels will be drier. And this is critical because the drier the field, the easier it is for fires to start, whether it's by a lightning strike, or by a campfire, it's just easier to start and spread. And it means more fuels dried out, that means there's more fuel to burn more energy to be released. higher intensity fires, like those Pyro cumulonimbus, we've seen fire generated thunderstorms, very intense, erratic, dangerous, these are difficult to impossible to extinguish. So as we continue to warm, our fuels are going to be dryer or lightning. And California has moved to a year long fire season. So that's why we say we're going to see more fire in the future.

Nick VinZant 6:03 And just to kind of clarify, when you say fuels we're talking about basically like, plants and trees, right?

Dr. Mike Flannigan 6:10 Yeah, so you know, when a fire starts, I'll use the forest as an example to start from the forest floor. And there's usually a bad needles leaves, it's dead stock, that's where the fire typically start. And so that can carry up into the shrubs. And then right into the trees, particularly the conifer trees in Scotland. And then the Crown's of the trees, the tops of the trees get engaged. And we call these crown fires, these are high intensity fires. And flames can be hundreds of feet inside. And these are the ones that are possible to extinguish directly through retardant or foam or water from planes. Even though it makes a great pitcher. It's like spitting on a campfire. If the fire is large, and the conditions are dry, and the fuels are dry, the only tool fire magic has called a burnout operation, which is very effective, you get in front of the wildfire, where it's going to go, you start a new fire, but backing into the winds, what's lower intensity, and you can manage it, and the wildfire and the burnout meet, it's got more fuel. So very effective, the problem becomes, if the winds are shifting, then it's a dangerous operation because the fire you start may slip to a head of fire, the higher intensity fire that you may no longer be able to control. So now you've got a wildfire and new fire that you can't control. It's fire management's challenging. And it's gonna be even more challenging in the future with climate change it climate change is definitely the cause, right? When we look at this, is there any serious debate about this? Or have basically all the researchers like yourself kind of coalesced around this idea? Like, yeah, this is climate change is fueling this, I'd say there's consensus, there are still some people who do not believe that climate change, I want to make this distinction clear. It's not solely climate change. But climate change is the biggest player, here we go, the way we manage our landscapes does play a role. And I'll give you an example. There's been a drought in California, a multi year drought, and millions of trees have died. And sometimes this happens with outbreaks of path. And so you now have large volumes of dead fuel, a fire come through, it leads to these high intensity fires. So managing your landscape does play a role as well. A research done by some of my American colleagues suggests that about 55% of the increases we've seen, are responsible to climate change. So it's the biggest player. Now, to give you perspective, what's going on in the western United States, every burn has quadrupled, that have increased by a factor of four since the 70s. California has increased by a factor of five since the 70s. So we're on this trajectory of more and more fire, and I don't see anything changing. And you know, if you are downtown Los Angeles or downtown San Francisco, the likelihood of your place burning down to a wildland fire is almost zero. But that smoke from these fires can smoky out for weeks and air quality can go you know down the tube. And the more we know about wildland fire smoke, the more we know it's really bad for our health. Is there anything we can do there any good news? Absolutely, that there are things we can do. So, you know, maybe I'll start here with you know, whether you're in Australia, the Arctic, the Amazon or California, there's three ingredients for wildfire to Know how you need these three things. It's just like the recipe, the stuff that burns the fuel, needles, the leaves, the shrubs, the trees, how much you have, what type, how dry it is all important aspects of that feel factor. Second, ignition. We've talked a bit about lightning, but people also start fires. And the third is hot, dry when the weather or conducive fire weather dry and windy will work as well. And you get all three and you get a wildfire.

Nick VinZant 10:32 So what can we do?

Dr. Mike Flannigan 10:33 Well, first thing, from a climate change perspective, we can stop emitting greenhouse gases, or at least reduce greenhouse gas emission. But the thing is, even if we stop today, emitting greenhouse gases, we're the earth is gonna continue to warm for 50 years or more because of the lags in our climate system, particularly the ocean. So we're going to continue to warm. So taking away the climate change aspect, we really can't do much about the day to day weather, look at the ignition, we really can't do much about lightning. But human caused fires, we can do something about and we can reduce every human caused fires preventable. And a number of these fires in California, Oregon, this year and other years have been started by either people directly, or our infrastructure power lines, for example. These are preventable, we can bury powerlines Yes, is expensive. But how expensive was it? What's the cost of burning downtown like paradise, California, all human caused fires are preventable. Things like building materials, and how you plan your community. You want fire breaks around the edge of your community, whether it's golf courses, baseball, diamonds, green grass is a very effective firebreak. So you can plan it so that you have this buffer zone where it's unlikely to burn or if it does burn is lower intensity and fire management. So around communities, you can reduce the risk by reducing the fuel load, or the fuel type if it's particularly flammable. And you can do this with prescribed burning, cutting down trees, you can use goats and other animals for grazing just to reduce the amount of available fuel for that fire. Now, there's been a lot said about prescribed burning. And yes, it does produce smoke. And but the argument is a little smoke now versus a lot of small player. But in those areas that are particularly sensitive. Like some of the parks, where you have a lot tourists, you can use mechanical treatments and reduce the field load.

Nick VinZant 12:51 When you talk about like, you know, the development aspect of it, are we building in places that we really shouldn't be building? Or are we just getting bigger, and this is kind of the natural process of that

Dr. Mike Flannigan 13:03 It's both there was something that LA Times about three or four years ago that we're continuing to build in wild lands and fire prone lands. And and they kind of used the analogy of building in flood plains. And it's not a complete analogy. But we are building in areas that we should think twice about a bridges, what we call the wildland urban interface. That's, you know, at the edge of communities, you're in the woods, and I've lived places like that. And it's gorgeous. You've got trees, you got wildlife, you got flowers, wild flowers. But the problem is that some of these places, you're at much greater risk from wildfire, unless you take some precautions. You have a much riskier environment and insurance companies. if they haven't already, they will say, No, we will not insure your home for a wildfire. Because the risk is too high.

Nick VinZant 13:59 Is there a general way that a fire is going to spread? Like is there a pattern to it? Or does it just burn everything around it?

Dr. Mike Flannigan 14:07 So it depends on how dry the fuels are, as to know where where it will spread, how intense it will be. And the wind helps the wind and topography help dictate where it will spread. So if you were a grass field, and the grass is all bad, it's yellow. You drop a match, there's no wind, it would be a circle. It just spread out in all directions. But once the wind starts to blow, well that takes the shape by the lips. And the most intense part is that the head of that fire, and that's the directional spreads. We have miles of fire growth that were quite well most circumstances so we can have a pretty good idea. If you have a weather forecast. We know what the topography is and we know the fuels.

Nick VinZant 14:56 Do fires generally like to go uphill. downhill,

Dr. Mike Flannigan 15:01 generally uphill. And that's because the winds generally during the day met the fact that burning period, normally is the winds go up Valley upslope. And that's why canyons are so dangerous. Lots of people. You know, I was in San Diego County last year, you know, I was in a number of canyons. And if a fire started the base of that Canyon spread up, you're trapped, you have no escape route. So yes, fires typically spread up hill, and you think about the flames are bent over closer to the ground, depending on the slow so that it gets more radiation. It's more efficient, spreading up hill as opposed to downhill.

Nick VinZant 15:43 Are we developing new firefighting techniques? Or is it just more people, bigger trucks, bigger planes? Like Are there new ways of doing it? Are we just improving upon the old ones

Dr. Mike Flannigan 15:55 Going back in time there was programs Smokey Bear program, and not Smokey the Bear but Smokey Bear. And you know Smokey Bear has a couple of messages on is that fire, only you can prevent forest fires. And that's a great message. So that's talking about human caused ignitions. The other part is that it's inferred that fires bad fires are enemy we have to put out. And that's not the case at all. Okay? fires natural in many of our forests in Canada. And that's just Mother Nature work. Anything is beneficial, it kills disease, and insects. And it's the cycle of life that just resets the clock, lots of trees and other species are adapted to fire. And we've been okay, we don't want more fires, we put them all out. And that's creating a real problem. Because these systems are used to fire you've now removed it. But with climate change, fire is coming back, and we can't stop it. So principle behind fire management is to determine if it's a wanted fire or unwanted fire death, I actually said wanted fire. And then places in Canada and national parks and in the States and Canada, and some of our jurisdictions say, make a determination would that fire be beneficial, then we'll monitor now a fire starts two kilometers or two miles from Redding, California takes half a second to state that unwanted fire and UI hit hard, you want to hit fast, you want to report it right away. So that if you get to the fire when it's small, you know the size of an office or a typical yard. It's easy for for fire match. But once the fire gets the size of a football field as hot, dry and windy, the fuels are flammable, like conifer trees, we now have a serious problem. Okay, so there's a window, sometimes that window is as small as 15 minutes, you got a 15 minute window, think about structural firefighters, they get a call and your house is on fire. If they get there within 15 minutes, they can put that fire out. If you get there after 15 minutes, your house may be lost. The same thing about a wildland fire if you get there quickly you can put up to get there layer the horses out of the bar. And that fire is now running. And you know, you got to start planning accordingly. But you your opportunity to put out greatly decrease that your you'll be able to pull it out anytime soon.

Nick VinZant 18:39 We have some listener submitted questions. Are you ready for some listener submitted questions?

Dr. Mike Flannigan 18:45 Sure.

Nick VinZant 18:45 What is the worst place for fires? Currently,

Dr. Mike Flannigan 18:48 this is kind of a value judgment here. The worst place in terms of how frequent they are or how much impact in terms of impact, I would have to say. Currently California and Australia not too far behind on Arctic for different reasons. And Amazon, okay. You know, if we think we continue to burn the Amazon, and the land clearing tool for agriculture and grazing for cattle, this forest with all its biodiversity may flip to cereda, which is like a Savanna. And this is hard to imagine but that's where we're heading now in the Arctic. Because there's a lot of peat fires going on. And Pete is organic material is 40 centimeters or more in depth. And if you've done any landscaping, sometimes you've got bags with peat, peat moss. Well, these are carbon that has been building up over thousands of years now they're burning and releases significant amounts of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. So the argument here is you know, the warmer we get more fire with the more fire we see the more greenhouse gases As we get which feeds the warming? So that's why I said that in Australia. While there's lots of people, number of people die, the smoke impacts that call from smoke was actually higher than the direct fire death toll, which was in the 30s.

Nick VinZant 20:17 How is the Arctic burning?

Dr. Mike Flannigan 20:19 So these are mostly lightning fires. And they, I'm not sure if you're aware, but there was a record breaking heat wave in Siberia. And once again, that relationship between temperature and fire, and there was a lot of lightning fires. They detected lightning near the North Pole now, because there's lightning detection since global systems. So if this virus Dart, and this peat, the fire can smolder and actually burn through winter, we call they've been coined zombie fires because they keep on going, even though they should, they shouldn't. And so they just continue to smolder, smolder. And when conditions right, it's flaming combustion, and it just burn and burn and burn. And in fact, in pea fires are common in Indonesia. And some of those peat fires have been burning for 30 years or more. And they just continue to smolder until the water table reaches to them, which maybe never, so I didn't see, it sounds pretty bad. And, you know, I do want you to be aware and your listeners, that the amount of area burned globally, it's about 400 million Hector's that's the size of modern day India. Okay. It's a huge area. And much of this is done in Africa, Australia. And, unfortunately, the Amazon. I love its cultural and some of its clearing fields. And the actual Larry Bird numbers, different estimate from remote sensing, you know, have been trending down globally, because it changes primarily in Africa, converting wild lands, to egg culture or urban areas, and some new policies to restrict burning of fields. So the numbers gone down, but we're seeing increases in places like western United States, Australia, Canada, Siberia. So even though the actual area bermed has been decreasing, globally, the impacts are increasing significantly. And 2020, maybe turning the corner, because 2020 seems to be higher than previous years. But these are estimates from satellites, and you have to take them with a grain of salt.

Nick VinZant 22:41 So is it just are the trees and plants changing at all? Is that contributing anything?

Dr. Mike Flannigan 22:48 Yeah, it's situational. It depends where you are. I'll give you some examples, or at least one example, from Hawaii. Hawaii is a great place. And but they have fire. And when people say fire, and if you've been to the Big Island, dry sighs Yeah. Well, that makes sense. But no, almost every island in the chain has had fire. And in part, so it's natural, but some of its more recent due to human caused fires. And because invasive grasses, okay, they're competing with native grasses. But these grasses are very flammable. They live and then they get, they die. And then they burn, but their root system survives. And then they come back even stronger, and the native species aren't used to fire are competed. And the worst thing is a change from a species to these, you know, invasive, exotic species that's promoting fire that's happening in western United States that's happening around the world. And this is where we're moving. Because, you know, people say, hey, if we keep on getting more fire, the trees won't be able to handle it. They're absolutely right, the trees will disappear. But what will replace it? shops are grass. So in some respects, we're moving to a grass world as we see more and more fire grass is going to be the winner, and grass can burn every year. Many of our forest systems in North America are used to fire but fire is too frequent. They cannot regenerate. So we may lose some of our forests in the process here if we continue to see more and more fire and arguably it's already happening in places

Nick VinZant 24:29 is there have been any place where you thought like oh, there's no way that place is gonna burn. And then it it has recently like it's changed so much that places you didn't think could burn are burning.

Dr. Mike Flannigan 24:41 So some of the dip into Australia a number of times some other rain forest. Yeah, this is never gonna burn. But you know, I guess the same could be said we're close to where you live. There's some temperate rainforest. You know, this will never burn the dripping wet as hell So green, but severe drought actually can burn and Wilburn. And we're starting to see that on Vancouver Island. You know, on the, on the west side is, you know, like the Olympic Peninsula, it's very wet, typically, but in the summer, you get these bunkers, of dry weather, you get some lightning strikes, which seemed to be more common now than they used to be. We do get fires in these areas where, hey, you know, it's too wet.

Nick VinZant 25:30 Or at least I thought it was. Have you ever been in a situation where you thought you weren't gonna get out of it? No. And this is interesting. Firefighters in Canada do not carry emergency shelters. Okay. Our Americans, cousins usually do. And the reason is, we believe we should never be a position you have to deploy, you should always have your safety routes. You should never be a dangerous spot that you have to do emergency shelters. So it's a little different philosophy. I've never felt unsafe. I think I've seen extreme fire behavior. Pyro cumulonimbus just incredible. But I was on this, I was upwind downwind from the from the system. So I was, you know, like watching a tornado. From a distance you find it and you know, it's moving away from you. But if you're on the other side and so No, I've never felt threatened. what's what's Pyro?

Dr. Mike Flannigan 26:44 Pyro CB for short. It's a fire generated thunderstorm. And you may have seen pictures of it from some of the recent California fires. In fact, the National Weather Service issued a tornado warning a fire generated tornado warning this summer in California for the first time and on record. So the pictures you would see would be kind of smoky, you know, close to the earth. And then you kind of see that white below we call a flower look of a cloud sometimes with an animal sometimes not. That's a fire generate thunderstorm. Pyro cumulonimbus, Pyro being fire cumulonimbus being the term for thunderstorm. So fire generate thunderstorm, these are erratic, high intensity, very dangerous and difficult to well, essentially impossible to extinguish through direct attack.

Nick VinZant 27:42 What do you what are you working on? Not right now research wise, what are you looking at?

Dr. Mike Flannigan

So I do a lot of climate change work and I'm still working on climate change. I'm also looking at using machine learning artificial intelligence if you have a smartphone if you use any of the software, if using artificial intelligence to have a way of doing an early warning system, to identify when we're going to go through those periods of severe extreme fire weather, and where we can expect new fires to occur. So we can put resources on whether it's planes, helicopters crews, in the appropriate spot. So we're ready for it. And let's get the resources there. So we can deal with these fires quickly. So we don't have homemade escape buyers, threatening communities.

Whiskey Critic Richard Thomas

From $11 bottles to $100,000 dollar glasses, Whiskey Critic Richard has tried over a thousand different spirits. We talk hidden gems, great values, industry secrets and more. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Cheap Beers.

Interview with Whiskey Critic Richard Thomas

Speakers:

Nick VinZant: Profoundly Pointless Host

Richard Thomas: Whiskey Critic and founder/editor of website The Whiskey Reviewer

Show notes and topics covered

• How should you drink whiskey

• What is the best value whiskey

• What does a $100,000 dollar whiskey taste like

• What are the best whiskeys you have tried

Nick VinZant 0:12

Hey everybody, welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant coming up in this episode, good whiskey and cheap beer.

Richard Thomas 0:22 And it was just very good stuff, not great stuff, but very good. And it was only $11 a bottle. And for $11 a bottle, it was the best buy on the planet. A lot of times what a novice in particular is doing is they're Miss identifying the effect of too much alcohol on their senses as being this, you know, like kind of harsh taste. And this caused the whole business to crash. Both in Scotland, Ireland, United States, Canada, everybody was sitting on top of a ocean of whiskey.

Nick VinZant 1:04 I want to thank you guys so much for joining us. If you get a chance, like, download, subscribe, share, we really appreciate it really helps us out. So if you're anything like me, you've been drinking at least a little bit more over the last couple of months. Now I I always go cheap. I drink the cheap stuff, because I'm just generally a cheap person. But it got me thinking about Alright, well, what's what's really good? What do the experts say? Is the really good stuff to drink. Our first guest is an expert in whiskey. He runs the website, the whiskey reviewer, and he has tried thousands, thousands of different whiskies. And not only does he have this fascinating insight into what makes us particular drink good. But he's also got some inside secrets about really what goes in to making all of the different drinks that you see at the liquor store and at the gas station or wherever you buy your alcohol. This is whiskey critic, Richard Thomas. So how many whiskies do you think that you've tried in your lifetime?

Richard Thomas 2:21 That's a difficult question to put a finger on. But I did a book called American whiskey, which was about, you know, distillers from coast to coast. So I've done notes on over 800. And so therefore, including the stuff I haven't done notes on, because it hasn't been commercially released, or, you know, I was just enjoying dinner and didn't want to bother with it, or what have you. That would probably push it into the four, low four digit number range, somewhere between 1200 and 15.

Nick VinZant 2:52 Wow. But how different are most of those? Right? Did they all kind of run together eventually?

Richard Thomas 3:00 Yeah, well, within a particular category, maybe? You know, it's kind of like if I were to be talking about comparing bourbon to scotch, which are the two big ones. Yeah, I mean, basically, if you try to do 300 Bourbons, and then you try to do 300, scotch whiskies, they will be very different from each other. And you will not be mixing the two in your head in any way, shape, or form. Our own perceptions of what we taste and smell and experience can change with a lot of other subjective factors, like basically, you know, what did you eat? How are you feeling physically? And then of course, there's just simply what you like, what you don't like, some people have genetic issues, like, you know, there's a genetic tag i was i was reading about last year. And I would point to people about this if they didn't like particular things that really, really amps up the negative response to bitter flavors, which means there's a whole, you know, swathes of food and drink that just, they don't like it, period, and there's no way that they can, because these things are very variable, and you have to try to take your time with them in order to, you know, mitigate that.

Nick VinZant 4:21 So when you like when you evaluate a whiskey, what are you doing, kind of walk me through the steps that you're looking at, like, how do you go about tasting it, that kind of stuff?

Richard Thomas 4:32 Well, you know, basically, I will pour now pour a simple DRAM size or shot size, so we're talking like 30 to 50 milliliters. And the first thing I will do is give it just a preliminary nosing just to see if the alcohol content is too strong. This is especially the case because cask strength, and entry proof whiskies which can be very potent indeed, have become more and more powerful. popular in recent years, and sometimes No, basically, it's a, it's a good bargain, especially if the quality of whiskey in question is quite high, because you've got more stuff in your bottle, you know, like a concentrated cleaner, as opposed to the regular strength, I mean, you know, bring it up, and it burns your nostrils. So there's that check, which is basically like, Okay, do I need to dial this down or not. And then, you know, you do the same kind of thing that you would be told to do on any distillery tour or guided tasting with a brand ambassador with someone like me, which is, you know, you start by nosing it, you keep your mouth open a little bit to allow for that olfactory circulation. And you get acquainted with it that way. And you take a little sip, and then you notice it some more, and then you start sipping on it. And, you know, you draw that out, because as you proceed through it, you know, you'll pick up on things that you didn't notice at first, it's, it's really much like, you know, you get acquainted with people, especially with a new whiskey, it's basically like going out on a first date, getting to know someone, so you take your time with it. When I'm doing an evaluation of something that's new, it usually takes me 45 minutes to an hour.

Nick VinZant 6:21 So the first step necessarily, like that's not really gonna give you an idea of what it tastes like.

Richard Thomas 6:27 Yeah, I mean, spirits in particular, are very high proof. Even, you know, like basic spirits that are bottled up like 40%, alcohol by content, or 80 proof. They do have a tendency to, at least initially overwhelm your senses. A lot of people, for example, when they're dealing with bourbon, there's this flavor call that they like to call barrel char. A lot of times what a novice in particular is doing is they're Miss identifying the effect of too much alcohol on their senses, as being this, you know, like, kind of charish taste.

Nick VinZant 7:10 So why whiskey? What about whiskey drew you into it?

Richard Thomas 7:15 Well, that's, that's very much tied into my youth. I mean, I was born and raised in Kentucky, and I am a Gen X her. So you know, I'm a very mature kid of the 70s in the 80s. Now, in this state Back then, I mean, that was like the Nadir of the whiskey business around the world in the 70s. The taste of the boomers in particular began to change. It's something that people in the alcohol industry talk a lot about, actually, you know, they moved away from whiskey and towards clear spirits like vodka, and got more and more into wine as well. And this caused the whole business to crash. Both in Scotland, Ireland, the United States, Canada, everybody was sitting on top of a ocean of whiskey that they couldn't sell, you know, it was looked at as a very kind of working class blue collar kind of drink. So it wasn't a celebrated as this, you know, source of regional and national pride the way that it is today. And so for me, the beginning of all of this was one day when I was 17 years old, I was looking at feature on a map called Glen's Creek. And I thought that that would make for some good outdoor exploring. So I drove my car over there, I parked it on a road called McCracken pike and I got off my bicycle a lot of back and began pedaling around for way that I thought I could safely access Glen's Creek because it was all on private property. And I didn't want to get you know my mind, but shut up rock salt, by some angry local farmer. So I'm trying to figure out how to get down there. And as I'm pedaling along, I came across a trio of what looked like abandoned industrial sites, one of them very industrial looking, but the other two were quite different because they had these you know, one of them was a kind of pho castle that was falling into disrepair. When I came back from this trip to like, what the heck was going on down there? I discovered that these were three distilleries and the fact that two of them were even as you know, kind of, you know, already falling into disrepair, semi ruined, you know, complexes were quite beautiful. And that kind of gave me my first hint that there was more to this story of Kentucky bourbon than I had been led to believe. And those three distilleries in the road today are now Woodford Reserve, capital and key and the Glen Creek distillery. They're all they've all they've all been renovated.

Nick VinZant 10:00 So how do you tell the difference between something that's bad necessarily or just not for you?

Richard Thomas 10:10 Well, that actually is a really good question. And my usual answer to that, because I'm not a snob, is, um, you know, basically, if you like it, it's good. That's, that's the simplest way to get at it, if you will like it, it's good. And, you know, it's I encourage people to not let people like me, for example, influence their thinking on things too much. You know, I, in fact, I think that, you know, if you find a critic who is very snotty about these things, and insists that I know the difference that everyone should adhere to, as far as what's good, and what's not what's excellent, and what's terrible, and, and they tell you that only one type of glassware is really all that good. I mean, you know, Jimmy Russell, he was, you know, quite an institution in the Kentucky bourbon industry. I mean, you know, he's the master distiller wild turkey for decades. And the first time we ran into Jimmy was hanging out at keman, which is the local horse track, you're in Lexington, Kentucky, and he was drinking as well turkey out of a Dixie cup. So some things you know, are good tools that help you get the most out of your experience. And of course, having nice trappings is fun. But at the end of the day, snobbery is defining how much you love something by how much you hate it. So, and I would rather not spend any time hating on anything. So as far as what's bad, I mean, I tend to approach it from I don't think most people will like this, you know, as you're reading, but different people say about different things, and developing your own tastes, you should try to gravitate to the people who mirror you the most. And then you have a good buy.

Nick VinZant 12:05 I mean, I remember when I kind of first hit legal drinking age to go into a store and actually buy it. It seemed like there was just a couple of brands, you know, jack daniels, Jim bean, and maybe one other thing. Now you go in there, and there's aisles full of it. Like how do you sort through it all?

Richard Thomas 12:23 Oh, well, that's, that's where the having the internet around is certainly a big help. Because you know, as you're sitting there looking at it, you can just whip out your phone and plug certain stuff in and find out what's what. One of the bigger issues these days with the plethora of brands that are sitting on the shelves and liquor store now is, you know, who made what, which comes up a lot. I mean, basically, just because it says that we're from old timey whiskey distillery doesn't necessarily mean there really is a old timey whiskey distillery. A lot of companies are basically just bottlers. You know, they'll buy stock whiskey aged out of distillery. And that isn't theirs. And, you know, they'll take charge of blending it, which is an underappreciated art in the United States. I mean, basically, you know, when you ate a barrel of whiskey, how it's, you know, to always come up within certain parameters, but exactly what you'll have at the end of that process, you know, it's not necessarily fixed proposition, the best example, in fact of trying to control for that would be Maker's Mark, those guys spend a lot of money on labor, in terms of doing what's called barrel rotation. So they have their warehouses, and they're moving their barrels around the warehouses in a pattern that is designed to achieve, you know, the most consistent maturation possible, so that the difference from one barrel to another is almost nil. And so when they dump all those barrels into a tank, and the tank feeds into bottling, they don't actually have to do this process of trying to try and tune it. So you know, they put a lot of investment in how they age it so that you know, in terms of moving stuff around in the labor that's involved that so they don't have to do a lot of work at the end of the process, when they have to bottle this stuff. Most other people do it kind of differently, where they'll have like a nine floor warehouse. And you know how the barrels at the top of the warehouse come out will be very different from how the barrels at the bottom do and that's predictable. But two barrels that are sitting right next to each other because of wood or any other factor could also come out quite differently. And taking like 500 of the things in a batch and fine tuning that so you wind up with a consistent product but you know bottling run after bottling Run after Baldwin is both uh, you know, there's a lot of skill and a little bit of art to it. And a lot of Americans don't appreciate that very much the way that the Scots do because the Scots the idea of buying whiskey from like, you know, 20 or 25 separate distilleries, each with their own separate identities, and putting it together into a single product is normal. So over here, you don't get that. And so you have a lot of companies that do this business, they'll source the whiskey and they'll bottle themselves. And, you know, if you don't actually look up who they are, what they're doing, you don't really know what is what it is that you're actually getting.

Nick VinZant 15:40 I didn't know that I just assumed that whoever's name was on the bottle was controlling the whole process of making it all the way to shipping it.

Richard Thomas 15:48 Now there's a there's a distillery in southern Indiana these days, they call it MGP. It's leftover from the breakup of the secrets Corporation, some 20 years ago. And basically, they are at this point, the single largest producer of basically, I guess you could call it whiskey available on the open market, I like to call that stock whiskey. So more or less if you're, if you want to start up your own whiskey brand, and you don't want to build a distillery and you need to get hundreds of barrels of whiskey that's been aged for at least a few years to get started. More than likely, you're going to go to MGP and ask them for a lot of brands that are around especially in rye whiskey are based in this way. And for a long time, they were pretty much the only source for this stuff. But as demand for their own products picked up. They increasingly had to close that spigot, because they needed their stock for themselves and for their own products. So there was no need to sell to anyone else. But nothing, you know, because the demand is so high other players have entered the market. I mean, there's a distillery. It's now one of the largest in the state down in Bardstown Bardstown bourbon company. And their primary business model is being a contract distiller for sourced brands, um, you know, basically, they've, I think the last time I talked to them, they had 30 something clients, and, you know, more or less, they were just like, you know, they, they, they make a deal. They make what the client asks them to make they agent in their warehouses, and they either ship it to the client for bottling or arrange bottling, you know, themselves. And, yeah, that's, you know, like, when you look at the liquor store, and they're, if they're doing 30, something brands, it's a pretty good bet that several of them are now customers of Bardstown bourbon company, and several more, our customers GP up in Indiana, and a few more or sourcing from somebody in Canada or sourcing from, you know, some small, smaller distillery that might be closer to them, or what have you. So a lot of brands, you know, they don't actually own a distillery, or they want to, but they, you know, that's another thing that's a part of this, you know, a lot of the smaller companies is basically, you know, they want to get it still in business. But that's a lot of investment, and hardware. And then you have to make the whiskey and you have to put it up for maturation for two years, four years, six years, eight years. It's a lot of money to tie up with the process. And certainly you don't want to start building up your brand. Only once you have a good product to sell. Because that could be a decade later.

Nick VinZant 18:51 That makes sense. Because I always look at these companies and like, wait a minute, this is a new thing. Yeah, they start making this 10 years ago. And that kind of exact question, right? Like they just so you can essentially start up a brand and six months later, you've got a 10 year old whiskey.

Richard Thomas 19:08 Yeah, yeah, you can do that. At this age finding 10 year old whiskey that's, you know, stock whiskey, you know, in barrels is available for that kind of thing. That would be hard to do and very expensive. But you could find four or five year old stuff, and you know, buy a bunch of it and bottle some of it now and then do your 10 year old A few years later, something along those lines. That's what a lot of people are actually have been doing. Since 2014 2016. You know, a decent American whiskey, it's mature at about four years that's properly aged at six to nine. middle aged at about 9012. And it's really old about 15 years, and scotch and Irish. is even more so. So it's a business where you really kind of you can't even, you don't have to be thinking about stuff that's so far in the future that you have no way of really knowing what's going to be happening by the time that you get there.

Nick VinZant 20:15 Yeah, that would be a definite challenge, right? Like, let's make the product for 2032. We actually have a bunch of listener submitted questions that I think kind of cover a lot of topics as well. So Okay, are you ready for some listener submitted questions?

Richard Thomas 20:31 Hit me,

Nick VinZant 20:32 most expensive whiskey you have ever tried.

Richard Thomas 20:39 Just a few weeks ago, I was writing a piece about what the most expensive scotch whiskies in the world are. And one of the things that got like, at the top of this list was this 50 year old MacAllan. But you know, it was it's both 50 years old and a 50 year old collectible, because the version that I'm talking about was bottled in 1983. So basically, it's like, I think when this stuff the market, it could be remembering this wrong. But like in 1983, it was being sold for 50 British pounds a bottle. And nowadays, if you want to get this stuff, it's over 100 grand. Holy. Yeah. I've tried that. And I think that is the most expensive thing that has passed my lens. Was it? Was it worth it? Like, I didn't buy it. I didn't buy it. And in fact, at the time that I tried it, it wasn't where it was, it was worth five figure amount of money, but not a six figure amount of money. But yeah, it was one of these things where I was at a show and someone was like, Hey, I have a little flask of the 1983 50 year old MacAllan. And so we sat down, and he's the kind of person that would have it would be bringing it to this kind of place. And so yeah, I got to try it. And it was the blind. But you know, keeping in mind the fact that the amount of money that it costs them was the equivalent of buying a nice new car. And now it's the equivalent of buying like a super luxury car. You know, the questions of whether or not it's worth it entirely and scaled what your disposable income is. I mean, you know, if you have the kind of money where you think that dropping 300 or $3,000, on a bottle of alcohol is, you know, not going to hurt you. It's not going to be painful. But yeah, it's totally worth it. But if that is a lot of money to you, and it's a painful expense to park with it, then No, it's not. You know, those things are very relative whether or not it's worth it. You know, is it was it worth it? Yes, it's worth it. Is it worth $100,000? a bottle? I don't have $100,000 to spend on anything. So no, not to me.

Nick VinZant 23:17 That makes sense. And I guess like the person, the person buying it for $100,000, that's probably like, 100 bucks to somebody else.

Richard Thomas 23:24 Yeah. You know, people are just fazed by things like that, not me.

Nick VinZant 23:30 Is, is when you look at though, like the price range of whiskey, is there a sweet spot in there where you can get something that's a really good quality, but not that expensive? Like, is there a sweet spot pricing wise,

Richard Thomas 23:44 there are certain items that are a little pricey, but I think they're worth the amount of money that you would pay for it. One example of this is, mixers, 10 year old rye, which is a single barrel. I love that stuff. And if you can get it for $150, because some retailers will mark this up steeply. But if you can get it for 150, I think it's worth 150. And there are a lot of things that you know, that are in that kind of range where they're like $100, or $150 or $200. And for most people that is like, you know, a birthday present to sell, or Christmas presents itself kind of price range. You know, it's it's expensive, but it's not terribly so it's not you know, it's the kind of thing that you know, you can splurge on it realistically,

Nick VinZant 24:35 what's your favorite, cheap whiskey, like the kind of rott gut stuff?

Richard Thomas 24:44 Um, my drinking is, I guess you could call it subsidized because, you know, people sent me things that they want me to try them. But let me try to think I that's the question I haven't thought about in a long time, like what's actually really, really cheap. You know, like, sometimes Simple like Jim Beam white label, you know, it's I treat it as sort of the benchmark for what bourbon is supposed to be because it is the best selling of the bunch. And it's not very expensive. You know, where I live, it's about $13 a bottle. And I mean, you know, seriously, there's there's craft beer, getting a six pack will cost you more than that. And it's not remarkable, but it's still just plain good stuff. You know, when I get asked, like, what is an example, right gut, one of the things I like to point to is this stuff called Kentucky gentleman. And there are actually two different types of Kentucky gentlemen, one is a bourbon and that is a very subpar bourbon. And then underneath it is blended whiskey. And the blended whiskey really is just awful. I do not like it at all, but there's a lot of cheap stuff that is good. And presents big, big bargains for the amount of money that you spend. Of course, the best examples of that are disappearing one by one, there used to be this thing here in Kentucky, it was the kind of it was something that you know, if you're coming, coming from out of state, you should go to a liquor store trying to find it and buy a cap case and take it home. It was made by Heaven Hill, it was Heaven, Hell, six year old bottles bought, which was only a Kentucky really, you couldn't get it anywhere else. But here. And it was just very good stuff. Not great stuff, but very good. And it was only $11 a bottle. And for $11 a bottle, it was the best buy on the planet. They don't do that anymore. You know, worried about it started to get around. And so more and more often, you know, you weren't sure people had it, because tourists would grab it. Which, you know, I appreciated that very much. I was basically like, well, it makes my life a little harder. But that's okay, you know, more people enjoying it, that's fine. And, you know, I I know how to take care of my needs. So that's okay. And then, you know, haven't held caught on to how popular this stuff was getting and decided that they could do something with that in terms of marketing. So they would do it. They turned it from a six year old into a seven year old. They released it nationally and they raised the price from $11 to 40. And that's that's the kind of thing that happens with these, these sleeper whiskies that are really cheap, and they're really good. These days, they can't stay that way for very long as a few years of people buzzing about them.

Nick VinZant 27:57 better better way to add water to whiskey straight water or an ice four.

Richard Thomas 28:04 Oh, well given that I spend a lot of time not you know, out in the summer and not in air conditioning, I have absolutely nothing against putting big blocks of ordinary ice into a glass of whiskey. And I do tend to look at that as primarily a climate thing. You know, like when it's when it's wintertime, you know, autumn early spring I'm not drinking chilled anything. So I switched strictly to putting a splash of water

Nick VinZant 28:43 coolest person you've ever had a drink with

Richard Thomas 28:47 just just the most all around cool time I ever had drinking somebody before. was a you know I was up in Scotland and I was meeting with Alan Winchester is the master distiller at the Glenlivet and that was just one of those situations where between him and who else was there that was the coolest you know bottle of scotch at overkill just simply because you know the conversation was so great. The time was so interesting you know it's just a very very well spent kind of thing where you came out you disrespect that was that really hit the nail on the head that was just an awesome time.

Nick VinZant 29:32 Last last question for me if you had to give a top three what would be in your top three?

Richard Thomas 29:41 Well, my top three I get that a lot like what are your favorite things to drink? What are your things to do this that or the other thing and I tend to think of it in terms of go to you know, it just basically like because go twos are more accessible, right? Like I could I could talk about the the all time mind blowing experiences like you know, the the super expensive MacAllan that I just mentioned before or drinking 28 year old Irish single pot still whiskey straight from Port pipe at the new Middleton distillery, things like that. But you know, that's not like normal stuff that everybody can appreciate. And what's on my shelf right now in terms of go to what have I got out? Let's see Well, before I mentioned the mixers, 10 year old rye, I've the mixers, 10 year old, single barrel bourbon, and that's on my shelf. And that's the priciest thing that's there. Right now I've got a large toasted barrel because it's new, and it's wonderful for kind of like a desert whiskey. I've got conus brimstone, which is super smoky. If you're into that kind of thing. Wild Turkey Rare Breed rye. And I brought this up because they just reinstituted it. knob Creek, small batch nine year old. And you know, any of those things would be on my list of go to favorites.

Nick VinZant 31:14 That's really all the questions I had. what's coming up next review? How can people kind of find out more about you?

Richard Thomas 31:21 Well, let's see. So my writing is here, there and everywhere. I'm the owner and the editor of the whisky reviewer, which is this point of fairly well known whiskey issues website. And of course, they're the books that I've written or contributed to the last one, which, like I said, we launched that aquarii is American whiskey. And right now in writing fairly steadily for chilled magazine, and Vine, Pear.

Nick VinZant 31:52 I want to thank Richard so much for joining us if you want to connect with him. We have a link to him on our social media or Profoundly Pointless on Instagram and Twitter. And we have also included in the RSS feed that's on this podcast