It’s freezing cold, she’s got knives on her hands and feet and she’s high in the air climbing a slick piece of ice you really don’t want to fall off of. Still, Competitive Ice Climber and 3x National Champion Catalina Shirley couldn’t be happier. We talk competitive Ice Climbing, the dangers of falling and golf gloves at the Olympics. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Holiday Movies.
Catalina Shirley: 01:19
Pointless: 23:04
Top 5 Holiday Movies: 41:48
Interview with Ice Climbing Champion Catalina Shipley
Nick VinZant 0:00
Nick, welcome to profoundly pointless. My name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode ice climbing and holiday movies, I
Catalina Shirley 0:21
definitely think we're seen as kind of, like, maybe the crazy uncle of climbing. All of the holds are, like, so precise that if you don't hit them in like, exactly the right way, you'll pop off of them. People sometimes run into trouble because they assume, Oh, ice is just ice. You know, I progressed through the grades in the same way that I would lead climbing outside. Um, but ice like you really need to learn how to read it, and the only way you can do that is by climbing it. I
Nick VinZant 0:51
want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance subscribe, leave us a rating or a review. We really appreciate it. It really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest. This is three time national champion Ice Climber, Catalina, also known as Cat Shirley. Looking at ice climbing from the outside, this looks like a crazy thing to me, like, Why? Why are you doing this?
Catalina Shirley 1:27
I mean, I think the biggest draw for me is that it like allows me to go places that I would never otherwise get to experience and see. So I'm a competitive Ice Climber, so I have been traveling all around the world for that since I was a freshman in high school. So I'm going on nine seasons of that now, and it's taken me, like, to some really cool, crazy countries, and never took quite the hot spots of those countries, but instead to, like, kind of really little towns, like way off the beaten path. And I think because it's kind of seen as, like, an extreme sport, maybe a little bit more dangerous, maybe a little out there. It definitely like attracts a kind of people who are like, really go getters, who want to kind of live their life to the fullest and really just experience everything the world has to offer.
Nick VinZant 2:14
Do you feel like ice climbers are different, even amongst climbers, I
Catalina Shirley 2:18
definitely think we're seen as kind of like, maybe the crazy uncle of climbing.
Nick VinZant 2:26
But is it? Is it really that extreme?
Catalina Shirley 2:29
I think yes and no. I think there's a lot of aspects of the sport that are, like, pretty low key, and people probably don't see that all the time. I think, like, where it gets a little sketchier is when you start, like, obviously pushing the limits, like outside, through like mountaineering, albinism, like different objectives. And so once you get past that kind of like wi five, wi six grade, you're getting into ice that's either, like, super overhanging, which is pretty rare, or like super delicate, thin, like smears, or narrow, like fragile pillars. And I think that's where things get a little more exciting. Is it? How
Nick VinZant 3:12
popular is it?
Catalina Shirley 3:14
It's definitely growing in popularity. I think kind of for a long time people have been ice climbing, but it's always been this really niche thing of, like, you know, mostly crusty old guys going out into the mountains, like climbing, Everest climbing, rainier, that kind of thing. And there hasn't really been as much, like, obviously, the competition stuff is fairly new in the last like, 20 to 30 years. And, yeah, like, crag ice is, I think, kind of becoming, like, more common that people will just go out for a day. So you're a ice Park is a really great place to do that. And so people, like our ice farmers out there, that's actually their job, and their job is to, like, in the middle of the night or the really early morning, like, turn on, kind of the taps to form the ice and then kind of out here on the front range we've now we have an ice climbing specific gym. It's called the ice coupe, and that's one of only, like, three or four gyms in the US that has dry tooling, which is like indoor ice climbing in it. But yeah, there's like, a huge push to try to get it into the 2030 Olympics. And so I think it's like, just going to gain popularity, obviously, up until that happening. And then hopefully, if that happens too, I think it'll kind of explode from there. We'll see
Nick VinZant 4:36
to kind of go back so we can go forward. How do you ice climb like when you so you're approaching an ice climb outside? Like, what do you like? How do you go about doing this?
Catalina Shirley 4:47
There's kind of a lot of like considerations that go into it. I mean, it's like entering the back country in any way. So you've got to check for avalanche danger, check for weather hazards, anything like that. And then, typically, they have, like, a pretty long approach, much to my dismay. So you gotta walk a long time. You finally get there to the ice climb. Obviously, like climbing is very much a sport that you have to do with other people. So it's typically like teams of two or three will go out to do ice climbs. And when you start climbing, you are using ice screws. So these are screws that kind of vary in length from like, you know, pretty short, to, like, pretty long. And then typically, like, people will pitch out these longer ice climbs. So that means the route ends up being longer than what your rope is. So when you get to kind of the top of your rope, or the top of, like, the designated pitch, you can, like, build an anchor with a couple of ice screws, and then you belay your partner up to you, and then you're, like, together on the ice route. And then they can either switch over and take the lead, or you can go up again.
Nick VinZant 6:00
How can, like, how do you know that that ice is going to be able to hold you? Yeah, there's
Catalina Shirley 6:06
definitely like, things that you want to look out for. Like, temperature plays a huge role. Like, there's kind of like a sweet spot for ice. If it's too, like, mushy gushy, like slushy, then it's not going to hold an ice cream very well. But if it's super brittle to it might fracture, and it'll be a little bit harder for the screw to go in. So generally, like around the teens and 20s are, like, a good temperature for ice. And then a lot of it too is like how it's formed, if that makes sense, like, some ice, like, does form, like, really, like, thin chandeliers. Or it's like, pretty fragile, and you can tell that pretty quickly from when you're climbing on it, like, you'll swing into it and it'll, like, shatter and like, sound like glass. Or you'll swing into it and it'll do what's called, like, dinner plating. So you'll get like, a big, like, dinner plate sized chunk of ice will, like, peel off and fall down. It's kind of like assessing, like a snow pack, almost like you kind of have different layers, and they're formed differently, like, based on temperature and precip and like, oftentimes some layers are really good and some layers are not as good. And so it's a little bit about like, being able to read the ice and being able to, like, pick through any ice that's bad to get to the hopefully better stuff that's underneath. How
Nick VinZant 7:28
often would you say that you go up to a climb and then you end up backing off of it because of the ice?
Catalina Shirley 7:34
It's pretty common, more common than you'd probably think. Yeah, and I definitely am, like, a very conservative climber as well, like, I will only climb something if I know that it's well within my ability level. So I'm definitely not, like, projecting. I'm not the kind of person who's like, going to be, you know, really pushing the limits of humanism. Like, I'm more interested in just romping in the mountains and then pushing my limits and comps.
Nick VinZant 8:00
I'm a numbers person, so if you said, like, okay, one out of how many out of 10 times would you say you back off because of the ice quality?
Catalina Shirley 8:09
Maybe three or four out of 10,
Nick VinZant 8:12
that's fairly high. That's more than I thought that you would say that like, Oh, can you fall or like, No, you really can't fall outside.
Catalina Shirley 8:22
You really can't fall outside both due to, like, the nature of the ice screws, like they actually hold, I think, better than people think, like everyone, like looks at it and they're like, No, that doesn't really make any sense. But actually, they oftentimes will hold, and that's great. But the like, real danger that you get into with, like, falling on ice is because you're wearing like, a, it's like a boot, almost like a ski boot, so it's pretty firm, and then you have a crampon underneath that as well. And so it's really easy if you fall to, like, catch the cramp on and, like, break your ankle or break your your leg, just from, like, the force of hitting the ice. If you fall, it's really hard to give like a soft catch ice climbing, but it's really easy to, yeah, injure yourself doing it. And obviously you've got knives in your hands and knives on your feet. And, yeah, you fall, it's generally not the greatest day. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 9:19
so the ice screws, though there's something that they are they more okay, this thing could hold me, or this thing will hold me. Some
Catalina Shirley 9:28
people place them, and it's a little bit more like mental pro than actual Pro. Like it's to maybe make your mind feel good. And obviously it's better to at least try and play something, even if you're not 100% sure it's going to hold or place them like, a little more closely together. If you think there's like, a chance you could fall you start to, you start to, like, mitigate that risk however you can.
Nick VinZant 9:53
Is it more physical or is it more technical?
Catalina Shirley 9:56
Oh, I love that question. I. I think it's more technical. So, yeah, I mean, obviously it takes, like, kind of a base level physical strength, kind of same as rock climbing, like there's, there's some degree of, like, being able to pull yourself up by your arms, primarily that you need, but so much of it is just about technique, especially in the competitions, all of the holds are, like, so precise that if you don't hit them in like, exactly the right way, you'll pop off of them. And so just being able to, like, read the holds and read the route is like, what kind of defines like a mediocre comp climber from, like, a really great one. And you see it like in ice climbing, more than a lot of sports and competitive ice climbing, you see people who are more experienced shining like far above, people who just have, like, the advantage of being really strong, and it's super awesome. Actually, the winner of all all of the World Cups she swept every single competition is over 40 now, and she's able to do that because she's just so good. She's been doing it so long, and when she climbs, it looks like she's not even trying. Like, obviously she's trying really hard, but her technique is just so good, and she's just such, like, a smooth and fluid climber that, like, yeah, that that experience, like, really, really shines, like, far and above, like, any amount of strength you could have. I really, I really believe that
Nick VinZant 11:29
is it so focused on technique that it's the kind of sport where a woman could beat a man, even though men have that strength advantage.
Catalina Shirley 11:40
I think it absolutely is, yeah, that's something that kind of my coach has always, like, instilled into me and into our whole team. Like when we were youth competitors, like there was no, no division between men and women, typically he would have us just all compete boys and girls together.
Nick VinZant 11:58
So when you go, like, when you do a route, is it generally what you think it's going to be as you start going up it? Or do you really have to adapt on the fly?
Catalina Shirley 12:07
I think it's more more about adapting on the fly. So I typically like look and try to identify, like, any moves that I think will be the most difficult. And I draw those out and try to have, like, a solid plan for what I'm going to do. And I typically like, try to have a solid plan for the first, like, two to three bolts, so the first, like, you know, 20 to 30 feet, um, just so I can, like, get off to a good, fast start. Um, but a lot of it is about, like, adapting on the fly, like, oftentimes you get out there, um, and once you start climbing, you realize that, like, maybe a hold isn't exactly what you thought it would be. Maybe it's worse, or maybe it's better. And oftentimes you run into like a hold that can be taken multiple ways, too, and that, like, really, I think, is also what separates like a good competitor from a great competitor, is when, when they get to a move that they can't do, like, do they just get kind of holed into, like, trying the same thing over and over again, until they either time out or pump out and fall off? Or do they try to think outside the
Nick VinZant 13:10
box? Can it be the situation that, like, use my hand as an example. Say, you hook the tool on the middle finger, and you were supposed to hook it on? What's that finger, the index finger, the finger next to the middle finger. Like, if you hook it here, you can do it, but if you hook it here, you can't do it. Yeah,
Catalina Shirley 13:29
sometimes it seriously, is like, two millimeters off, and it's not going to be any good because the pocket is like, so small. Or there's just one good spot, and that's the only good spot.
Nick VinZant 13:42
What makes you good at it? Like, what would you say? This is the put all humbleness aside, right? Like, what would you say is the reason that you're good at it?
Catalina Shirley 13:49
I think I'm good at it because my mental game is really strong. Um, which wasn't always the case. Like, for a long time, I used to get super nervous when I was competing. Like, I think there's a lot of kind of fears that stack up. Like, obviously there's kind of the underlying, like, human just fear of, like falling, and then like, on top of that is like, kind of the fear of, like, not doing well in the competition. So I always, like, kind of put a lot of pressure on myself to, like, do really well, and especially if I was, like, traveling somewhere far away, like, nobody wants to, you know, fly to Korea to fall off the third hold. And so, yeah, I used to get really nervous. And then something just kind of, like, almost clicked for me, of like, you know, you're like, why are you doing this? You're doing this for fun. Like you don't need to be so worked up about this. And I think with ice climbing too, just because it is such an unpredictable sport, like you can hit a hold a millimeter off and fall off because of that. And that happens to everyone, like that happens to the best in the world. And so I think, like my, my real mindset shift was just going. Going from the thought of like, Oh no. What if something like bad happens? What if I hit the hold a millimeter off and I fall because of that, and that's it. Instead of thinking like that, I started thinking like, almost the opposite of, like, you know, what if that doesn't happen? Like you could do really, really well here, like you could potentially win this competition if that doesn't happen. So just that little shift of, instead of like, kind of thinking of the worst that could happen, I started thinking of like the best that could happen.
Nick VinZant 15:30
Are you ready for some harder slash? Listener submitted questions, yes, best places in the world to ice climb.
Catalina Shirley 15:38
I mean, I I'm partial to urae because I grew up so close to it. But if you are looking to get into ice climbing for the first time, like try it for the first time, seriously, go to urae. I think it is the highest concentration of accessible routes, certainly in the United States. So go there. The guides there are awesome. I'm actually one of them, so that's fun, um, but, yeah, go there. Get a guide. They'll set u top ropes, and there's absolutely no stakes. Climb a couple pitches, enjoy it, and then walk right back into town for hot chocolate. It's five minutes away.
Nick VinZant 16:15
Do people free, solo Ice cream? Ice cream? Yeah,
Catalina Shirley 16:19
it's absolutely a thing. Is that not for me, but will
Nick VinZant 16:24
there be people who are regular climbers, so to speak, and like, Oh, I'm not doing ice climbing, though.
Catalina Shirley 16:30
I mean, I there's definitely crossover. I think it's there's just so few ice climbers, even compared to rock climbers, that there's not, like, a ton of crossover.
Nick VinZant 16:39
This one's a little in depth and maybe kind of tricky, but imagine you are at climbing high school. Who's the cool kid at climbing high school, the rock climbers, the TRad climbers, the ice climbers, like who's the cool kid at climbing high school? That's
Catalina Shirley 16:57
probably not the Ice Climbers. It's probably probably the boulders feel like they're the cool kids. They've got their, you know, beanies and oversized sweatshirts, and I don't know, they're pretty they're pretty laid back, they're pretty cool, like nobody really has has an issue with them. I think the the ice climbers are kind of the weird kids, the ice climbers and the dry tours they're
Nick VinZant 17:20
not sitting at, like, the main cool kid table. Where are you guys at? Where are you guys at? You're not, like, eating lunch in the bathroom. No,
Catalina Shirley 17:29
I think we've got our, like, little little table of just us. We've got our little, our little, quick
Nick VinZant 17:35
little table of just us. Do you think it can can you get down to the cool table? Or is no ice climbing is always probably going to be its own little thing. I think ice
Catalina Shirley 17:43
climbing is always going to be its own little thing, which is part of what I love about it, to be honest. Like, I think it's just not super mainstream, because I think there's just so many people who look at it, even if they understand it completely and just say, I have no interest in that. I would never want to do that. Like, good for you, that you love it. But like, why would I go be cold to like, you know, climb up ice with with knives like that just doesn't sound like something that sparks joy for me.
Nick VinZant 18:13
Yeah, that the cold is what gets me. Is it usually really cold?
Catalina Shirley 18:17
Yes, I can't lie about that. It is usually really cold. What do
Nick VinZant 18:20
you put on your hand? You're not climbing bare hands. Are you? No,
Catalina Shirley 18:24
we climb with little gloves. We actually, most of us use golf gloves, which is kind of strange, but nobody really makes like a glove for competition, like dry tooling, but with the competition stuff, you really need like, to be able to, like, feel the tool and be able to, like, grip it as best as you can. And so even just having a, like, a thicker glove there, like makes it so you have to squeeze the tool harder, and then you like, pump out. So the golf gloves actually, like, they're both grippy and they're super tight. You want to, like, skin tight to your hands.
Nick VinZant 19:00
Man, I thought it would be like, the foot the wide receiver gloves or something like that. I guess I don't use I don't go golfing. So what do I know? Um, yeah,
Catalina Shirley 19:08
I don't go golfing either. It's always funny, I walk into the golf store and I'm like, I need a right hand and a left hand. And they're like, you know, you don't right? And I'm like, from ice, what
Nick VinZant 19:17
I do with climbing ice? Are there different kinds of ice, or is ice
Catalina Shirley 19:23
ice? There's definitely, definitely different kind of kinds of ice, super variable based on like temperature and precip and how it forms. And I think people sometimes run into trouble because they assume, Oh, ice is just ice. You know, I progressed through the grades in the same way that I would lead climbing outside. But ice like you really need to learn how to read it, and the only way you can do that is by climbing it. And so climbing it on top rope is like the best way to kind of gain that experience before you're ready to start leading. So I think the common rule is like you. Want to top rope at least 100 pitches of ice before you even start. Like to consider leading ice. And then from there, like you should really be slow and kind of be climbing ice that you know is like, well within your wheelhouse, just because conditions are so variable, like something can be graded wi three one year. But then if you hit it, you know, too early season, too late season. Like, maybe it was a bad pre SIP year, it can look really different from the pictures. So like with rock climbing, you're like, oh, you know, 512 it's always 512 like, maybe if it's a warm day, it's slightly slippery 512 but it's still 512 but with ice, like, it genuinely does vary every single year. And so it's really important to, like, know, current conditions more than just like, oh, you know, I've climbed this route before I climbed it last year. I know what it feels like. Like, no, it can look completely different. Will it be different
Nick VinZant 20:53
hour by hour? Generally? Like, no, it's set up this way this year. It's going to be this way this year and maybe a different way next year.
Catalina Shirley 21:01
Um, it definitely does change a little based on the time of day. Like, typically you want to, like, start and finish in the shade, if you can, unless it's, like, a really cold day, because, like, the sun can start to, like, melt it and change it, and you don't really want it changing while you're on it, but it typically, like, once it's in it's kind of that way for the season, unless, like, it falls down or it gets, like, some drastic temperature, like fluctuations and, like, melts and refreezes in a weird way. So I wouldn't necessarily say hour by hour, but probably, like day by day,
Nick VinZant 21:41
that's pretty much all the questions I got. What's kind of coming up next for you? Where can people find you, that kind of stuff?
Catalina Shirley 21:47
Yeah. So actually, I have a really exciting season coming up. For the first time ever, I am going out on the Whole World Cup circuit. So that's five competitions starting in January. I'll be starting in Korea, then heading to sauce Fauci, Switzerland, then heading to France, then back home to Longmont, and then over to Edmonton and Canada. And so those are all a week or two apart. And so I'm going to be doing this awesome tour of Asia and Europe and North America, competing, trying to hopefully get on the podium again for the US at the World Cups. And yeah, my Instagram is the climber cat there, and underscores in between the and climber and cat. Um,
Nick VinZant 22:35
yeah, I want to thank cat so much for joining us. If you want to connect with her, we have linked to her on our social media sites. We're profoundly pointless on tick tock, Instagram and YouTube, and we've also included her information in the episode description, and if you want to see her ice climbing, the YouTube version of this episode will be live on November 14, at 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of the show. Are you trying to become Biff from Back to the Future? Is that your goal? No,
John Shull 23:13
but looking at my my bodily features, I could see it, and that's a compliment to me.
Nick VinZant 23:19
Okay, if you go get a haircut. When you go get a haircut or try, do you bring a picture of like a celebrity or something, and say, I
John Shull 23:27
want to look like this once when I was a teenager, who was it?
Nick VinZant 23:32
Who'd you bring? This
John Shull 23:34
is embarrassing as all hell. Actually, do I do? I have to say I already said it didn't i
Nick VinZant 23:40
No, huh? You just said it was embarrassing. You didn't say who it was. Who did you want to look like?
John Shull 23:47
Just, I want there's a actor from the late eight now, well, he's still an actor, but he was big in the late 90s, when we were impressionable teenagers. The name was Devin Sawa, okay? And he was the guy. He played Casper in the movie Casper.
Nick VinZant 24:03
Oh, and he wanted to have a haircut like him, huh? He
John Shull 24:09
had these, I don't even know what you'd call them now, these bangs that, like, you could mold, you know, you could, like, curl them in the front.
Nick VinZant 24:21
Okay? Oh, I see what you're talking about. Hey, man, if that's what you wanted,
John Shull 24:27
well, I got them, except they didn't look good on me. So okay,
Nick VinZant 24:31
look, we all have, I don't know if I've ever really had, like, No, I had a butt cut when I was a freshman in high school. And looking back on it, that was pretty terrible. Like that was like, Oh, that wasn't, that wasn't a good look for me.
John Shull 24:44
What's a butt cut? I'm
Nick VinZant 24:45
not even familiar with that. You go straight down the middle. It's like, over to the sides. Oh,
John Shull 24:50
so just a part, but a butt, yeah, but a butt cut,
Nick VinZant 24:55
that's fine. I would make an argument that the bowl cut and the butt cut. You. Are the two funniest types of haircuts. Well, a mullet too. Those are the three funniest haircuts. I'm
John Shull 25:07
not entirely sure where that picked up steam and how that became an actual style, either.
Nick VinZant 25:13
No, it never should have been. Okay. You ready to get started?
John Shull 25:16
I thought we were already I thought we were already going. I thought we were nine, a little bit, but
Nick VinZant 25:20
not really. Okay. Do you prefer cubed ice or crushed ice? I mean,
John Shull 25:26
I'm not gonna make this easy on you. I prefer different kinds of ice for different kinds of things.
Nick VinZant 25:32
Okay, okay, go on.
John Shull 25:34
I mean. I mean, like, if I'm getting crushed ice, it'll be with like a fountain pop, but if I'm having like a gin and tonic, I like the bigger cubes of ice.
Nick VinZant 25:45
I think that that's actually correct. I think that's exactly the way to do it. I'm not getting crushed ice unless I'm getting a 20 ounce fountain drink or bigger. Otherwise, it's cubed all the way. But I would say I like crushed ice better overall.
John Shull 26:00
I almost prefer, like, the pellets, like the crushed ice. With our pellets, you know, we're, like, if you go to, like, a, like, an ice cream shop and you get a slushy, and there's, like, the big pellets, like, those type of ice cubes are made, are just awesome. Oh,
Nick VinZant 26:17
okay, all right. We are not alone. 57% of the audience prefers cubed ice. 43% prefers crushed ice. So it's close, man, it's close.
John Shull 26:32
You are not alone.
Nick VinZant 26:33
It's always good not to be alone. I always want at least one other person to be familiar with whatever circumstance I'm generally going through.
John Shull 26:42
There was a point in my life where I wanted to be the best or or have a world record of something. It could have been anything. I just wanted to be the one person with something. But as I get older in life, I don't really care about that anymore.
Nick VinZant 26:58
You just wanted a world record for something. I mean, what? Like, how far did you go with this? Did you put any initiative into it? Or was it just a wish that a wish and a hope, like, someday I'm just going to stumble into this.
John Shull 27:10
I mean, like, I guess I'd have to identify a talent or something that I could do well enough, better than anyone else in the world, but I don't think there is something that I can do better than anyone else in the world.
Nick VinZant 27:21
The only thing that I would say that I like, I would put myself up against anybody else is dealing with customer service. Oh, I think that's one of the reasons my wife married me, because she heard me talk to customer service. I'm great. You ever need customer service? Have me call for you. I'm fantastic at it.
John Shull 27:42
I mean, can you, can you get, can you give us a run through? Like, are you? Are you intimidating? Are you accommodating? Like, how do you do it? The, why are you so good at it?
Nick VinZant 27:50
Cuz I just, I'm good at painting people into corners and then using logic, for example, like they say, well, that's not our policy. Well, it's not a policy handed down by God himself. You can change it if you want to. You just don't want to, and then you use silence. You just stop talking. Silence is the greatest negotiator, I think, that you'll ever find. Just don't talk, and people will fill that silence and do what you want.
John Shull 28:19
Okay, all right? And how many have you ever had a call where you have actually not been successful? No,
Nick VinZant 28:28
wow, I have never spoken to customer service and not gotten what I wanted.
John Shull 28:36
Wow, you may be the only person that I know of that has an immaculate record when it comes to customer service. I'm batting 100 or 1000 or whatever it is. I mean, you've never hung up. You've never gotten angry and hung up. Nothing.
Nick VinZant 28:49
No, no. I come prepared. I come with facts. I come with the policy. I got into it the other day with a bike company. They didn't want to refund the bike. And I said, Listen, I understand that you've done these tests before, but the frame bent on this one. Did you test this specific bike? So you didn't test this specific bike, so you don't actually know if this bike is many is faulty or not. And they refunded all the money. And I kept the bike
John Shull 29:19
see that. I think that's where a lot of people get. You know, when they get to that level, they just get angry and aggressive, like, I mean, that's how I would get sometimes, as you know, you know, the person you're talking to doesn't really know usually the product. But I'm happy for you. I'm happy I'm happy that you keep a level head and you get what you want. It's
Nick VinZant 29:40
my, I would honestly argue it's probably my one true talent. Anyway, moving on, shout outs, yeah, let's
John Shull 29:47
get some shout outs here, as I brought up Devon Sawa, anyways.
Nick VinZant 29:54
All right, I've even heard of that actor before. Never even heard of him. For
John Shull 29:58
those of you who might be who. Wondering who that still is. He was the main guy out of the final destination series as well, the main actor in most of those, also an idol fans back in the day. But anyways, alright, oh,
Nick VinZant 30:13
they had you had a full man crush. Then alright? Rj baldinelli,
John Shull 30:18
dan fight star, Chris Welch, Daniel Galina, Liam, Kelly Keegan, Michael lazardo Velarde, Sam Woodward, Alex Berg, Tommy Foley, Jonathan Madison, Ron horow and Matthew McCafferty. You get the I know I feel like we're kicking off a new season of the podcast with this episode. I don't know why, okay, like, all right, out there, you know? I mean, I was thinking, I was thinking before I logged on here to to do this with you, that we started this podcast in 2018 when Donald Trump was president, went through the Biden era, which we're still in, and now, God willing, we'll be doing this well into Donald Trump's, you know, second presidency. It's just insane. And I say that to say that we've been around a while doing this thing. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 31:24
that's all I have to say, is, yeah,
John Shull 31:25
yeah. It's, it's, man, it's, it's wild. So it's, you
Nick VinZant 31:30
wouldn't think it's been that that long, right? I do think that that's the weird thing about history. Life just goes on, and whatever circumstance you think that you're in, if this is unprecedented and all these kind of stuff. It's really not like everybody's been through it. You just, I just think life just keeps moving. You just keep moving.
John Shull 31:49
History is just it just repeats itself, right? There's no matter what you believe in politics, this has happened before. Life has happened before. Volcanos just because it's 50 degrees in Michigan on November 11, it's happened before, you know, like history just repeats itself.
Nick VinZant 32:07
It just goes around.
John Shull 32:10
Alright, have some, I don't know, some weird ass things to talk about that you know. Okay, okay. First question is, do you believe when you look up at the sky and, let's say, you see something shooting across the sky that you can't explain? Okay, what's the first thing you like say, or with somebody too? What? What would be the first thing you say to that person, like, hey, that's an alien or it's a shooting star. Where does your mind go right away? Like, the first thing you think of when you see something in the sky that you can't explain, oh, a shooting star. Well, according to a poll done by an independent research company, apparently over 80% of the people they pulled out of the 10,000 immediately think it's some kind of alien.
Nick VinZant 32:58
Yeah, I mean, that's not
John Shull 33:02
that's insane to me.
Nick VinZant 33:03
That's that's a lot higher than I would have thought. Like 80% of people think if they see something in the sky, it's an alien. Yeah, it's nuts. I don't know about where they get all this information from polls, not to go back into the election, necessarily. But like, Who are these people? Have you? I've never been polled for a single thing. Nobody has ever asked my opinion about a survey in any way. Have you
John Shull 33:27
not before this election, but I can, you know, once again, not to get into politics. You know, whatever side you're on, I think we can all agree that the amount of and I live in a swing state, Michigan, oh yeah, you got hit. I mean, every single hour you were getting a different text, let's see the rip of the week, because apparently, a famous person now is dying every week, if not every other day, goes out to Tony Todd, just beloved actor, probably most notable for playing the
Nick VinZant 34:04
yeah, I've never heard of him. Jesus, I've never heard of
John Shull 34:08
him. Candy Man, the horror franchise. Candy Man,
Nick VinZant 34:11
oh, that's I Yeah. I don't watch that kind of stuff. So that like, yeah, no, I don't want anything to do with that scary movies. Man, wow, especially like a scary, scary movie, new
John Shull 34:20
rip dead, dead at 69 um,
Nick VinZant 34:29
what age would you? What age would you go like? Oh, that person was young
John Shull 34:34
now, like, if they just well, who was, uh, who was the kid, the kid who was the guy that just passed away from one direction, like, he was in his
Nick VinZant 34:42
mid 30s. Oh, he was in his 30s. That's really young to me, that that
John Shull 34:46
was pretty and that's still, do you know? You you probably don't know, like, the circumstances, like, did he really just fall off his balcony? Was he? No,
Nick VinZant 34:53
I think, I think that there was drugs involved in some capacity.
Unknown Speaker 34:58
That's not, yeah. Yeah, well, that's
Nick VinZant 35:00
okay if somebody's if somebody's in their 60s, are you like, are they that's young? No.
John Shull 35:06
I mean, no, not really. I mean, I'd probably say, you know, 30s and 40s. I'm like, dang, that's really young. And then 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, by then, I feel like you've had a pretty good life, you know, or you've lived a decent amount of years to have had a good life. I
Nick VinZant 35:24
would actually say anything under 75 I'm a little surprised. And think like, oh, they went early.
John Shull 35:31
Wow. 75 okay, 75
Nick VinZant 35:34
I think I, I think they went Young. If it's anything under 75
John Shull 35:39
Well, I mean, you look at some of these celebrities that are still kicking Clint Eastwood 90 something, that's
Nick VinZant 35:46
insane, yeah, making a movie too at 94 Well, you gotta do something like keep living your life. Uh,
John Shull 35:54
let's see. Do you care about the the apparently, the biggest movie of the year coming out this week or next week. The wicked No,
Nick VinZant 36:05
I haven't seen a movie that I've honestly been interested in seeing since dune and that might be the only one since Avengers, Infinity War. I can't there. I mean, I can't think of hardly any movies that have gotten me interested enough that I've been like, Yeah, I can't wait to see that, or wait for that to come out. Dune and Avengers, Infinity War. And I don't think that there's any other movies I can think of that I've been like, I can't wait to see that movie.
John Shull 36:38
I think that I agree with you. I feel like it, it's just weird. Like, I used to be in the movies and I got into TV shows during the pandemic. Now I'm just kind of everything. They come at you so fast. Now, there's so many of them that it's just hard to keep up on anything. So I know I don't get excited about any really. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 36:58
and they're all slightly the same, like, they're all slightly the same movie, right? It's like, this time he's a mechanic, now he's an electrician, this time he's a plumber, like, it's, they're all kind of the same so,
John Shull 37:15
so basically, what you're saying is, it's like the Hallmark, but it's of all movies, is what you're Yeah, it's all
Nick VinZant 37:21
the same movie. We're all watching the same movie at this point.
John Shull 37:25
Well, let's, let's end on, on a, on a, on a fantastic note. Here, I saw one of the most frightening things I've ever seen happen on an athletic field. And I didn't see it in person. I saw the replay, but the Canadian Football League, a quarterback, uh, his name is Chad Kelly, broke his leg, stands up on it, realizes it's broken. Or, I don't really know why he stood up, to be honest with you, but he stands up, realizes it's broken, falls to the ground, and you can see him try to, like, basically, hold his leg straight so it doesn't fall. And nobody, no, I saw the clip. I didn't see the entire clip, like, until trainers got out there, but not one person on the field, not even one of his teammates, are like, Hey, dude, should I, like, maybe just hold your ankle or something
Nick VinZant 38:21
like, hold this together for you, but
John Shull 38:23
it's just, you know, it's it. If you haven't seen the video, it's heartbreaking and terrible. He's going to be okay. Well, I mean, he broke his leg. I don't how great he's going to be, but
Nick VinZant 38:33
was it sticking out of the skin? No.
John Shull 38:35
I mean, it didn't look like it, but it's, it's definitely, I mean, he definitely, probably broke his tibia, fibula, because this is flopping in the wind, and he's like, holding his own leg together, trying to wait for the trainers to come. And I'm just sitting there watching this clip, thinking, like you can hear his teammates, like, like, Oh no, like you're yelling. It just made me think like that just is terrible. Somebody helped the guy. Come on, Canada, what are we doing?
Nick VinZant 39:07
Canada is such a hospitable place, too. You think they would be have better manners, but I guess not. I don't really ever want to see people's legs get hurt. I can't watch that. I can watch an arm break, okay, but legs not at all. Can't watch it,
John Shull 39:22
yeah, yeah. I mean, I can't really watch I don't want to see anything break. I mean, legs are obviously the most visual, because they're, like, the biggest usually, but just, and
Nick VinZant 39:33
it's always grueso looking. It's always like, Oh, that shouldn't bend that way, yeah, arms or shoulders. It doesn't really look that bad, even in slow motion, but like legs that looks always looks so terrifying like, oh God, that looks like it really, really, really hurt,
John Shull 39:48
alright. Last, last question here. This is a holiday related question. But Christmas lights and Christmas tree, if they're up before Thanksgiving, you. Should they be?
Nick VinZant 40:01
Yes, I've got no problem. I think that there is a movement that is happening in decorations right now. I think that people are putting up decorations earlier and earlier, and I'm completely okay with it. If I could have gotten away with it, I would have put my Christmas lights up November 1.
John Shull 40:19
Wow. Okay. I
Nick VinZant 40:20
mean, no problem with it whatsoever.
John Shull 40:22
So I'm going to say this, and I stand by this, is that I probably would have been pretty critical of that five years ago. But you know what? I'm fine with it now. You want to put them up in August. Put them up in like, I don't care if it makes you happy, probably would make me happy walking by your house to see you know your your stuff out there. I'm now Christmas tree. Christmas tree needs to be after Thanksgiving, but decorations I'm okay with before,
Nick VinZant 40:50
I'll agree with you that Christmas tree needs to wait until after Thanksgiving, but I could go Christmas lights as early as the first to no day in November. And if you don't do Halloween decorations and you want to skip straight to Christmas lights, if somebody threw their Christmas lights up in October, I wouldn't have that much of a problem with it.
John Shull 41:13
Or you could be like my wife and just buy lights for our big pine tree out fronts that just change colors so we never have to take them down. And we can have Fourth of July lights. We can have Halloween lights. Can have Thanksgiving colors, Christmas colors. Is
Nick VinZant 41:29
that just because she knew that you weren't going to take them down in an orderly fashion, and we're going to complain about it, and so she just said, I'm going to put these up there, and you're just going to
John Shull 41:37
have to deal with it, pretty much. That's, that's, yeah, yeah, that's the root story there.
Nick VinZant 41:41
Laziness won't get you anywhere, John,
John Shull 41:46
let's move on, please.
Nick VinZant 41:47
Okay, you ready for him? Top five,
John Shull 41:49
I am, it's, it's, I'm ready to get roasted. But yes, I'm, I'm ready. Okay,
Nick VinZant 41:55
so our top five is top five holiday movies, and this can be either Thanksgiving, Christmas or New Year's themed, all the holidays, basically, moving forward, what's your number five?
John Shull 42:08
So two things before I start this list. One, this is just my personal preference list. So okay, I
Nick VinZant 42:15
mean, it's going to be a garbage list.
John Shull 42:17
Probably I didn't go based upon any lists, any top 10 list. Secondly, it was really hard for me to find holiday movies that I would put on a top five list that aren't Christmas related. So get ready, it's going to be a heavy list of Christmas related movies. For me,
Nick VinZant 42:34
there's not as many Thanksgiving or New Year's Eve movies as there is Christmas. Yeah,
John Shull 42:39
by but by far. So in saying that my number five, and this is more of a because it's just there in my face and it's been there, but that's a Christmas story.
Nick VinZant 42:54
I have that a little bit higher on the list, but I understand what you're going for. It's, it's, I mean, more tradition, exactly.
John Shull 43:03
And they still have the 24 hours on TBS. And, you know, anyone who grew up blue cloud, blue collar in America, for in the 1990s they looked, you know, you looked forward to that 24 hours of a Christmas story. So that's, you know, that's why it's on my my top five, not, not the greatest movie, by any means, but it's tradition. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 43:26
yeah. It says something that you did. I remember the memory of the movie more than I remember the movie, like sitting and watching it, those kind of things. My number five is Klaus, a recent edition, but that's a really good Christmas movie that should be rocketing up the ranks that
John Shull 43:46
like the one with Vince Vaughn.
Nick VinZant 43:51
No, no, it's animated.
John Shull 43:53
Okay, I I'm unaware of it. Then I guess, oh,
Nick VinZant 43:57
it's a really good Christmas movie. It's, it's, I could see it becoming a top 10 overall movie for a lot of people when, I
John Shull 44:07
mean, when did it come out? Because if I'm not, I don't
Nick VinZant 44:09
have any particular spot. I don't know,
John Shull 44:12
okay, well,
Nick VinZant 44:14
I don't know who's in it. I don't know the names of the people in it. I don't know any of the characters. I just know I like the movie.
John Shull 44:20
Alright? I mean, listen, that's, that's, it's your list, man, you do you do your research. I never seen it. Do you research,
Nick VinZant 44:27
and then you would have
John Shull 44:32
my number four. Once again, a tradition. I don't know how else to put it, but National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. It's my number four.
Nick VinZant 44:43
That movie I feel like grows on you as you get older, because you can identify with the different generations represented within it. Like at first, you're the kid, then you're Clark Griswold, then you're the grandparents, and you can kind of resonate how you. Person feels in that movie?
John Shull 45:02
Yeah, it's, I mean, I think you and I are both in the Clark Griswold stage of our life, and that is 100% accurate. Everything that he feels in that movie is 100% real.
Nick VinZant 45:15
Yeah, it's weird how watching it now you're like, oh my gosh, I'm turning into Clark Griswold,
Catalina Shirley 45:25
except, except
John Shull 45:26
maybe for kidnapping, you know, your boss at the end. I don't know if I would do
Nick VinZant 45:32
that part, but the decorations like I got on my wife chastised her about our lack of Halloween decorations compared to the neighbors like this wasn't acceptable. It's the only time I've ever had to have like a sit down conversation with my wife about her wifeing,
John Shull 45:48
wifeing.
Nick VinZant 45:51
How did that go? It was taken well, okay, they were valid critiques. They were valid criticisms. So it went over very well.
John Shull 46:00
Alright, what's your number four? You've
Nick VinZant 46:04
got mail. I would put You've Got Mail higher on the holiday list if it was more specific to a holiday. But You've Got Mail is fantastic holiday movie, fantastic Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, they go through all of it. Oh, I
John Shull 46:23
mean movie, okay, don't I mean, I don't. I don't think that one doesn't stand out to me, but it's, I'm happy for you. You're gonna like my number three. It's a to two for, uh, both Thanksgiving ask movies, but I have planes, trains and automobiles, and Dutch. That's my number as my duel number three.
Nick VinZant 46:45
I don't know what Dutch is. So Dutch is,
John Shull 46:49
I don't know late 90s, early No, early 90s. Late 80s starts at O'Neill. And essentially Ed O'Neill is picking up his girlfriend's like son from boarding school, and they have to drive across the country to get to Thanksgiving. And it's Ed O'Neill, like, married with children. Ed O'Neill. He's hilarious. And it's, it's just, it's just a fun movie to to watch. And obviously you have to kind of like Ed O'Neill's humor, but he's great. So
Nick VinZant 47:20
my number three is a Christmas story. Talks about it already. I put it there solely based off tradition. I don't personally think it's that great of a movie, no, but
John Shull 47:30
it's, I mean, it's definitely a tradition. I'm glad you kind of re brought it up because I wanted to say that I've actually been to the house, and you can rent to the house out as an Airbnb. And I think we should do that sometime.
Nick VinZant 47:43
Is that the movie with the lamp, though, right? It's got the lamp.
Unknown Speaker 47:47
Yeah, absolutely, yeah,
Nick VinZant 47:48
yeah. How much does it cost? I'm not paying more than, like, $100
John Shull 47:53
No, it's more $100 yeah, it's like, four or 500 bucks. I
Nick VinZant 47:56
think, oh, no, I'm not doing that. Then I'll walk past it.
John Shull 48:02
Um, alright, so this is probably the only controversial one I have on my list, and I think it's because it doesn't get the respect it deserves. But my number two is the Santa Claus with Tim Allen, oh, really, once again, personalism. It's, you know, it's a tradition type movie. It's, it's just, it's just a good hearted movie about Santa, like, I don't know I'll spend Tim Allen's great. It's a great cast. It's just, it's really good. I
Nick VinZant 48:38
don't think I've ever seen that. My number two is Muppet Christmas Carol. You got, oh, you got a problem with the Muppets?
John Shull 48:48
No. I mean, I don't have a problem with the Muppets. I just, it's fine. I don't know if it, I don't know if it'd be number two,
Nick VinZant 48:54
it's better than Dutch. I think the world would agree with that.
John Shull 49:00
Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't disagree with you on that, but you know, once again, it's personal preference. Can have it wherever you want on the list. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 49:09
okay, what's your number one?
John Shull 49:11
So surprisingly, to everyone who knows me listens or maybe has followed this podcast for the last few years, Die Hard is not on my top five list. Not it is not. I
Nick VinZant 49:26
thought for sure you were going to put Die Hard as your number one.
John Shull 49:29
I put it on the honorable mention maybe a couple years ago, if you know, I think we did this list few years back. I put it on there, but said no, I stayed with a pretty conservative pick, and my number one is, It's a Wonderful Life. Such a
Nick VinZant 49:44
boring movie, such a boring movie. But
John Shull 49:48
it's I not even in color.
Nick VinZant 49:50
They
John Shull 49:52
do have one in color, but regardless, they do. I didn't know that. I think the theme of my list is tradition. And I think the older I get. Right? The more tradition matters, and it's a wonderful life is it has a it's an it just has a great message. Like, I don't know what else to say about the movie, other than it's fantastic, I can
Nick VinZant 50:11
understand that. It's definitely something about getting older and becoming a parent that, like, tradition starts to suddenly mean a lot that like, Oh, this is what we do. This is the tradition that we go through.
John Shull 50:22
Yeah, and I mean, has one of the best, one of my, one of my favorite actors of all time in it, James Stewart.
Nick VinZant 50:29
My number one is not just the greatest holiday movie. I think it is really one of the greatest movies ever made, planes, trains and automobiles. I might be one of the greatest comedies ever made, and it has an emotional message that keeps you watching that movie again and again. I watch it every Wednesday before Thanksgiving.
John Shull 50:53
I mean, obviously I put it on my list. I love the movie. I would say, I would think one of the greatest ever. Actually, I think it's hard to really discern that from a lot of comedies of that time that were just like that, just just not a Thanksgiving, you know, holiday theme. I mean,
Nick VinZant 51:14
I think that's a the symptom of John Candy, that he is consistently underrated in his movies. He's underrated by the critics because he's not a critic darling. All the snobs don't like him, but John Candy's who doesn't, and the popular people, the people who doesn't like John Candy,
John Shull 51:33
oh, my God, I was just about to sound real dumb there. Where's that?
Nick VinZant 51:37
John Candy was No, I
John Shull 51:38
was gonna say, you know, one of the more versatile actors of his time, because he did Cool Runnings.
Nick VinZant 51:46
I mean, was he ever in any dramatic movies? He was always in comedies. No, he
John Shull 51:52
was always in that, I know of. I mean, and they, they were good comedies, right? I mean, the great outdoors, Uncle Buck. Oh, yeah, obviously, yeah, playing trains. He did that the God, he was at home alone.
Unknown Speaker 52:08
He was, yeah,
John Shull 52:10
there's there. His band gives,
Nick VinZant 52:13
Oh, that's right, the polka band, yeah, Spaceballs, yeah. He's, that's an actor that I would say that I missed. Well, you have anything in your honorable mention, and
John Shull 52:26
it all comes back around because he, he was the co owner of the Toronto Argonauts, which is the Canadian football team of the quarterback I was talking about earlier that shredded his leg. So all comes kind of full circle. Uh, let's see Otto mentioned, Die Hard, Home Alone, frosty Rudolph. You know all of those classic cartoony type movies or movies gremlins. Love gremlins. That was hard to keep off the list. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 52:56
that's up there. That's a good movie. And then
John Shull 53:00
Trading Places, which is another, yeah,
Nick VinZant 53:04
that's a good one.
John Shull 53:05
Eddie Eddie Murphy's hilarious, and that Dan aykroyds I feel, I think I feel about Dan Aykroyd, the Phil the way that you feel about John Candy, like I love Dan Aykroyd, and I think he is so underrated and will never truly get the credit he deserves in Hollywood.
Nick VinZant 53:21
It's a Canadian thing.
John Shull 53:23
And then I just, I, I have a few more, but I'll end with Scrooged, the Bill Murray version.
Nick VinZant 53:30
Oh yeah, that's a good one. That's pretty good. There's some Lego movies that I like. Think they were related to, like Star Wars, like LEGO Star Wars, something with Christmas. I don't remember what the names are. The only one that I had on there that you didn't was soul food. I like that movie and the best man holiday. I like both of those movies
John Shull 53:52
thinking on it. It's, I mean, has there been a good Christmas or not? Or holiday movie made in the last decade, Klaus, that
Nick VinZant 54:04
would be the only one that I could say, that you could make an argument that Klaus is probably the only one that's been good in the last decade. Any of those, like Bad Santa, there's a difference between entertaining and, I think, good.
John Shull 54:15
What's the one? Oh, my God. What's the one where Ryan Reynolds is, like, he's really fat in the beginning, and then he loses all the weight. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, yeah, I don't remember it either. But any of
Nick VinZant 54:28
those, like romantic comedies, like, I don't really have any interest in them, they're all the same movie. I'm
John Shull 54:34
going to bring up one more that's on my honorable mention because you didn't bring it up. But Jingle all the way with Arnold is also a good tradition movie. I hope that. I mean, we're official, we're in it, man, we are in the holiday season. So
Nick VinZant 54:52
right after Halloween, my level of effort in all things decreases by 5% a week. May. Maybe 10 and then probably 10% after Christmas, I'm putting in 10% less effort every single week until the new year.
John Shull 55:09
Well, I was talking to my wife, and for those of you that don't know Nick like he's an outdoorsy kind of guy, and I'm gonna I might get on skis for the first time ever. Because why? My calf still isn't fully healed, so why not just break my pelvis?
Nick VinZant 55:25
Oh, my God. Why are you gonna What are you gonna do? Don't take a lesson. Just go out there. Man, it up.
John Shull 55:31
Yeah, I have some friends that we're talking about just going out and, you know, they they'd put me on the kitty Hill, or something, the beginner Hill.
Nick VinZant 55:39
So, yeah, well, you just make sure they film it, dude, you're going to be there with me. Where are you guys going?
John Shull 55:47
Bye, I can't disclose that. I don't want the hordes of people showing
Nick VinZant 55:52
up. Oh, a hill, like a hill in Michigan, yeah, of course, we're going to go to a small
John Shull 55:55
hill, assuming we get snow, because it's been 60 degrees here every day. Here
Nick VinZant 55:59
we go. Did you mention your basement yet? No, not yet, but it's coming along. Okay, see, and that's the end of the show. Soon as this is a hard and fast rule, as soon as John brings up the weather and his basement while he's wearing a sweater,
John Shull 56:17
I wish I had, like the effects where I could, like, create snow coming down on me right now.
Nick VinZant 56:24
I have things to do. Oh, okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of profoundly pointless I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. Really does help out the show and let us know what you think are the best holiday movies. I just Planes, Trains and Automobiles to me. I know people talk about the Godfather Citizen Kane, but I think that might be the best movie of all time. It's got everything, comedy, drama, characters, suspense, all of it. Perfect movie you.