Space Weather lights up the night sky but it could also throw us into darkness. That’s why Heliophysicist Dr. Erika Palmerio studies the sun. She’s trying to find a way to predict the next big solar event. We talk Solar Flares, Coronal Mass Ejections and Radiation Storms. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Things About Fall.
Dr. Erika Palmerio: 01:24
Pointless: 52:05
Top 5: 01:17:11
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Interview with Solar Weather Researcher Dr. Erika Palmerio
Nick VinZant 0:12
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, solar weather, and fall, y'all.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 0:21
Space weather is the weather in space. And it's completely, totally driven by the sun, we can see the solar cycle in the measurements of the cosmic rays. Because when the sun is less active, so At solar minimum, we have a lot more cosmic rays coming. One of the biggest questions in our field is what would happen if the current Dawn event happened today,
Nick VinZant 0:48
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener. Welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest studies the sun, specifically, what's happening on the sun, and how it creates the solar weather that can have such a big impact on our entire planet. This is Helio physicist, Dr. Erica Paul Merio. Is space weather like I think of weather like, or is it really kind of something completely different?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 1:31
Yes, base weather is basically we do more or less the same things. We have to do forecasts, we have different conditions, we have nice space weather conditions, we have more disturbed space weather conditions. So yeah, they can be pretty much compared.
Nick VinZant 1:48
So when we talk about like space weather, what is essentially,
Dr. Erika Palmerio 1:52
exactly so Space weather is the weather in space, and it's completely, totally driven by the sun, but it's not this static ball of gas, of ionized gas, I must I should say, which is known as plasma. So it just not the static ball that is just there. In space, it goes through a lot of activity. And actually, the activity of the Sun is dictated by what we call the solar cycle. So every 11 years, we will have the sun alternating between a state of being a bit more quiet, which we call the solar minimum. And and the state of being much more active, which we call solar maximum. And solar activity manifests through things such as eruptions. And parts of eruptions are for example, solar flares, or coronal mass ejections, CMEs. And other phenomenon. So for example, we have the solar wind streaming all the time from the sun continuously. And all of these things that happen on the sun can obviously affect other objects in the solar system, including Earth. What is it
Nick VinZant 3:11
though? Like, is it radiation? Is it just pure energy coming at us? Like, what is the thing that is happening? I guess?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 3:20
Yes. So and now it's going to be a pretty pretty long conversation, but bear with me and please feel free to stop me at any point. So for example, when we have a solar eruption, we have some magnetic structure, magnetic bundle of magnetic fields that is there that somehow becomes unstable. So solar flare is this very rapid burst of energy on magnetic energy that we see as a very fast brightening on the sun that can last from a few minutes to a couple of hours. And from there, yes, we get radiation coming out in the in the solar system. And at the same time, we can have also a so called coronal mass ejection or CME coming out of the sun. And that's literally a cloud a huge cloud of plasma and magnetic fields that can be thrown in any direction. So sometimes it's going to miss us much sometimes it's going to directly impact us. Now from a flare, we can get radiation and also from a CME eruption when it's still very close to the sun. So it's the full of energy and can accelerate particles, we get this special particles that we call solar energetic particles, that are particles that are accelerated to such high energies that they are giving out a lot of radiation. So when if and when they impact us depending on how strong this level of radiation we have here we can have something that is called a radiation storm and That's what is actually dangerous for spacecraft in, in in space, because this radiation can damage their electronics. And we have had occasions or like some episodes or losing some instruments, onboard some spacecraft or losing a spacecraft altogether. And also this radiation storms, this radiation is very dangerous for asteroids, which also connects me to the next point. So Earth has its own magnetic field that generates this bubble of magnetic production that we call the magneto sphere. Now, the magneto sphere is if you look at it now, let's try to imagine it's basically a bubble that is stretched enormously on one side and the side on which is stretched, it's the side that points away from the sun. And that's because we have the solar wind that I mentioned before coming all the time towards us, us and stretching these magnetic fields away from the sun. It's basically the same concept as if you are blowing your hair with a hairdryer and you will have the hair going on on one side, right?
Nick VinZant 6:15
I was imagining like somebody drawing a tennis ball, like when they draw like the wind going over. And it's like that's how I would imagine it.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 6:22
Yes, exactly, exactly, something like that. So now for example, the but inside this bubble, we have a lot of production from Earth's magnetic field itself right. Now when we have a coronal mass ejection coming towards us, which are these huge, huge clouds of plasma magnetic field, they're their own magnetic field, obviously. And when the magnetic field coming from a CME is pointing instead, southward, and it's hitting Earth's magnetosphere. Something, a process called magnetic reconnection happens where the lines merge and then separate, which means that Earth's magnetosphere will literally open on the day side, the magnetic field will be thrown up back towards the night side. And we have extra particles and all the solar wind materials from the Sun that can flow straight into the poles, which is also what gave us Aurora, which is the I might I mean, at least in my opinion, it's the most beautiful spectacle that can come out of solar activity. And I think it's the only visual literally visual, you know, in in, at wavelengths that our eyes can see, it's the only visual manifestation of space weather. But what else can come when when I'm coronal mass ejection with a south magnetic south board, my pointing magnetic field comes towards us is that we get all these extra particles or extra currents coming in. So we will have elevated currents on ground, which can disrupt things like power, power lines, and energy, transformers, all these technology, things that we are so accustomed to right now, but there is no direct effect on human health on the ground.
Nick VinZant 8:25
So it really kind of like the only thing it could really do to us is kind of like knock out our electronics, which would then cause global chaos.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 8:33
Yes. And one other kind of store that we can add is called a radio blackout, which means that on the day side, radio waves cannot transmit properly.
Nick VinZant 8:46
So there's basically when we get down to it, right, like the solar wind or solar flare and a CME.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 8:52
Yes, these are the main the main things that we have to be afraid of. And obviously solar flares and CMEs are what accelerate solar energetic particles.
Nick VinZant 9:03
So if we didn't have that magnetic field, are we just pictures? Are we just toast basically?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 9:11
I mean, probably yes. I mean, that's, that's literally what's happening on the moon. So the moon as no magnetic field of itself and no, and apart from probably something localized on the on the crust of the moon, but there is no large scale protection. So which is okay, apart from the fact that we couldn't breathe, because there is no atmosphere. But if we don't, okay, if we ignore the fact that we couldn't breathe, yeah, we can't have just someone on the wall stay in there. Because I mean, yes, when we have solar activity, there is enhancements of this radiation, but you know, the solar wind itself is streaming particle As continuously, which are not as energetic, but still, you know, over time radiation would still accumulate, I would say, How's our
Nick VinZant 10:09
magnetic field? Right? Like, there's no danger to our magnetic field or anything? Is there? I hope?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 10:15
No, however, our magnetic field is fine.
Nick VinZant 10:18
So if you were to kind of put like, on a scale of one to 10, with one being like, we don't know what this yellow looking ball in the sky is to 10, we've got this whole thing figured out. Where do you think that we would be kind of in our knowledge of what's going on with the sun?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 10:35
On the sun? I would say six or seven, maybe, let's say six and a half, there is really a lot to still discover,
Nick VinZant 10:45
I guess what's going on with this? I don't know if that's a good question or not. But like, I have no idea what the sun really is, like I get it, but I have no clue what's really going on up there.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 10:59
It's a middle aged star, which means that it's a deep space of burning hydrogen into helium, we can think about this on a bit like an onion, we have three major layers in the inside, which is called the solar interior, and then three layers of on the outside that we call the solar atmosphere. So in the inside, we have the nucleus, which is where all these fusion reactions happen. So when we're burning hydrogen into helium, then we have the Radiative Zone, which is where the energy that is produced with these reactions is radiating outwards, then we have the convection zone, which is where this energy is moved, moves upward outwards through convective motions, where convective motion is basically like water boiling, where we have called stuff going down, hot stuff going up, or am I getting it the other way, whatever. Anyway, we are this convective motions. And then we get to the atmosphere, where, as I said before, the lower lowest layer, which is the one we can see with our eyes protected eyes is the photosphere. Then we have the chromosphere, which is another layer that is kind of low in the sun, and then we add the corona, which is the outermost layer of the solar atmosphere. And it's kind of giant. Like we we normally like even if we look at places, for example, away 30 solar radii, so 30 times the radius of the sun, we still kind of we still call that area the corona. So it's like a very, the sun has a gigantic atmosphere. And then at some point, we will have this transition from the corona to the solar wind, even if obviously, the solar wind is formed, much lower at the sun, but we and then at some point we will have probably after Mercury's orbit, what we call interplanetary space, but then also after the planets, the sun is still influencing all the system and actually the entire sphere of influence of the sun, in terms of solar wind, or you know in terms of like what we study in either physics, which is the subject of studying the sun and its environment. All these bubble is called the heliosphere. Literally the solar sphere, which is not as big as for example, the sphere of influence of sun of the sun's gravity. So for example, a lot of times like when you talk about the solar system like depends on what you're talking about, because the sun's gravity as an influence much farther away. So for example, we know that the comments are born in the Oort cloud. That's way outside of the heliosphere but the sphere of influence of the solar wind so where the solar wind and meets the interstellar wind, that's what defines the heliosphere.
Nick VinZant 14:22
So that's our like, way past Pluto, basically.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 14:25
Oh, yeah. via a lot. Yes. thing that
Nick VinZant 14:29
always gets me whenever we like I hear about space is like this can't be real. All of this, like all this stuff can't be real, right.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 14:37
I know. It's so cool.
Nick VinZant 14:40
No, no,
Dr. Erika Palmerio 14:43
but we we have gone out of the heliosphere. We actually have measurements from outside of the heliosphere. We have had two spacecraft that I've left it or at least two spacecraft that have left it and we have data of which are the two Voyager spacecraft that were launched in 1977? I think that Voyager two so the second one crossed this line of dividing the solar influence from interstellar space in 2018. So pretty recently, and yes, so now we have two probes that are actually measuring the interstellar winds.
Nick VinZant 15:24
So how far like how many million miles is it out there before you finally get past it?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 15:29
So I can do it more or less in in terms of distance between the Earth and the Sun. So we are at 100 Plus, so probably 120, definitely more than 100 times the distance between Earth and the Sun. Whoa, that's pretty far out. And the distance between the Earth and the Sun is 150 million kilometres, which in miles I think should be someday like 98 million miles
Nick VinZant 16:01
ideate. So like, what's nine, what's nine times 109,800 9000 800 million miles, whatever that is.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 16:15
So almost 10 billion by it since that. That's a lot of mathematics for for a Friday. I know.
Nick VinZant 16:22
Right? Tuesday morning kind of conversation that a Friday. But like he's it's absolutely noticeable. Like if you're on this side of the heliosphere? You know it and once you're on that line, it's like crossing into the deep end or something.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 16:42
I mean, yeah. I mean, it's not like a very sharp line, we are the same at the division between the magnetosphere and the solar. So actually, you know, as we can think of Earth's magnetosphere separating us from the solar wind, it's a bit the same of within the case of the heliosphere being separated from the interstellar wind. But between all of these interfaces, there is something that we call a sheath region. So for example, the in the case of Earth protecting us from the solar wind, we have the magneto sheath. And for the heliosphere separating from the interstellar wind, we have the Helio sheath, so it's a region where materials from both sides are kind of mixing up. Because yeah, the division is not extremely sharp. So then
Nick VinZant 17:37
we are we ever affected by, you know, the solar winds or whatever from other stars?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 17:45
No, the only thing that we get from outer space is galactic cosmic rays, which are very, very energetic particles that are coming from who knows where the center of the galaxy some supernovae, you know, so things that are happening outside in the galaxy. So we have these rays that come to us. And actually, funnily enough, we can see the solar cycle in the measurements of the cosmic rays, because when the sun is less active, so At solar minimum, we have a lot more cosmic rays coming because this, the sun is not, you know, as energized. But during solar maximum, we measure a lot of less particles from the galaxy because the sun is shooting stuff out all the time. So it's kind of protecting us.
Nick VinZant 18:44
It's kind of like the weak like a weak spot in a force field. That's the way that I imagine right? Like, it's getting through the force field. It's solar minimum and not its solar maximum. Yes, exactly. Yes. I finally like I understood, I understood that. Like, I got that the math was too hard, but I got that far. Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 19:07
Oh, we have lizard the idea. No, yes, sure. Let's go for it.
Nick VinZant 19:11
Biggest solar weather event we've ever been hit with. What did it do?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 19:18
I can talk for so long about this. Okay, the biggest I know the biggest but it happened so long ago. So Okay. Let's start. I have Yes. History. So if you have ever like if you're like a space weather enthusiast or if you know a bit about the sun, you have you must have heard about the Carrington Event, which was the literally the biggest storm geomagnetic storm that we had to date. Now this storm happened in September 1859. So that was a long time ago. Right? Um, so as soon as the Carrington event because Richard Carrington, this amateur British astronomer was looking at the sun when there was this big flare happening. So he actually did a drawing. Now side note, there was another astronomer who did look at the same event, Richard Hudson, but it's known as the Carrington Event nowadays. Now, as I said, solar eruptions, we have flares and CMEs, they can happen separately. So we can have only a flare we can have only a CME in in the most. In the strongest eruptions, they tend to happen together. So you have the bright new from the flare, and the cloud coming off the cloud. CMA coming off and eating us is what drives down a geomagnetic storm, which is when I said, we had the magnetosphere peeling and opening, we have all the particles coming in, we have Aurorus, we have extra currents going on on ground. So that's all parts of a geomagnetic storm. So the cloud that was released at the eruption that Richard Carrington, so via the flare, right to us pretty quickly, I think, in about one day. And we didn't have spacecraft, we didn't have satellites at that time, we astronauts were not even in the in the books, you know, for at least another 100 years. But what did we have in 1859? The Telegraph. So the telegraph system all around Europe, and the North in North America completely failed. So there are even reports of telegraph operators disconnecting the machines and the machines were still sending messages because of so much electric currents that were just roaming around on ground. Some operators got electric shocks, but apparently not. I mean, there are no reports of that. So that's great. But the point is that we have always asked like, what, so one of the one of the biggest questions in our field is what would happen if the current event happened today, because back in the day, the damage could then be that huge, because we only had the telegraph going on, as you know, as technological infrastructure. And as I said, there are absolute even from from this kind of event where Aurora was seen on TV in the Caribbean. So there are reports from Mexico, from Cuba, and people said that they could just read the newspaper at night because of the aurora lights were so bright. And but as I said, from something like that, there is absolutely no direct damage to the human body only to the infrastructure. And damage to humans can only be an indirect. But yeah, what would happen we don't know yet. I mean, we obviously can do research and speculations but something this strong has not happened since then. On Earth, but we have had some other interesting events. So for example, in, in in 72, I think that the eruption was in August, it was a very strong eruption with related with flare and CME, the CME arrived to us very quickly again, what was interesting to me about that event is that so the radiation storm, the one that comes very quickly because of these particles coming straight at us very quickly after an eruption was so strong that so this happened in April, not in August 1972. And we had Apollo, one Apollo, one of the Apollo's launching in April, and the other one, the next one launching in December of the same year. And it happened at this eruption happened during one of the Apollo launches or missions, the astronauts, it has been estimated they would have gotten enough radiation for actually getting cancer. So and you know, back in the day, we didn't know about, you know, the effects of space weather because again, it's it's such a new it's such a new field, actually, the first CMA observed was in 1970.
Nick VinZant 24:36
Can we predict them at all?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 24:40
So that's what we are trying. And that's what space weather research, the field of space weather in research does. And at the moment, we cannot really predict when our action is going to happen. At least not If not early enough, I mean, you can, you can see some little precursors of an eruption right before it's happening. But officially, yeah, we don't have, we cannot absolutely understand when something's interaction will happen. After it has happened, we can try to forecast its effects on Earth. But obviously, again, we, we do not realize that, for example, for terrestrial weather we have had, like, we've started working on predictions, even before technology. But this thing is pretty, pretty novel. So we have a lot to work on, but also because you know, you have an eruption happening at the sun, and we don't have anything between the Sun and Earth to keep monitoring, right. So it would be something like trying to understand the weather in Los Angeles, by following one cloud that you saw in Central Europe.
Nick VinZant 26:03
Yeah, you can't figure it out. Right? It's like, and I would imagine that even if we could put something up there, it still wouldn't be able to get us a signal fashion that that thing's going to hit us.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 26:15
I mean, for the particles, so energetic particles, they're very quick. So when your operators, you know, I do work, or at least meet up and conversate with people who actually work in the operations. I mean, that's like, they have to be on call. Because if there is, like, you know, like a medical doctor, and I'm like, that's, that's not why I did science. Like they have to be on call. And if there is some first event, they have to immediately warn the astronauts and everything and, you know, and launch alerts, you because these things have to be done extremely quickly, because these particles are quick. Instead for CMEs. Unless it's something extremely fast. I think that the fastest CME that has ever come to us arrived in 14 hours, or 17, anywhere between 14 and about 15 hours, right, which is extremely quick. Normally, they take about three days.
Nick VinZant 27:17
So when I think of like, measurement, right, like I'm thinking of kind of along the lines of like the Richter scale, right, so if you took this event, the court is it Covington or Corrington, Carrington mix of both of those? Right? So where would that be on kind of like the measurement scale?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 27:34
Okay, so that's, that's a very nice question, because our scales do not. The do not like there is a top and above that instinct gonna be that. So I'm pretty sure it would. So for example, for geomagnetic storms, the official scale from Na is from Jiwon, minor storm, I mean, obviously, there is when there is no storm, it doesn't have a name, chi one minor, Storm two g five extreme storm, so I'm under percent confident the Carrington event would have been classified as a G five. But you know, we don't have anything about it. So the strong ones, they're still going to be called G five, because the scale just doesn't cry,
Nick VinZant 28:19
doesn't matter if it wipes the earth out, it's still a G five.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 28:22
And I mean, it's, it's a bit the same for flares, more or less, like solar flares. Okay, let's only talk about the decent ones, because the scale goes very low. And for things that we can barely see, but we have C flares, very weak and flares, kind of medium X flares, very strong. But these, they go on a logarithmic scale. So you know, an M flare is 10 times more powerful than the Z flare and the X flare 10 times more powerful. And then they have named the M numbers inside. So you can have X 1x 2x 3x Four, but for example, for m, you go from M one through n m nine and then you'll get to the X class, while the X class just doesn't end. So it has been estimated obviously, you know, from drawings done 150 years ago that the Carrington Event flare could have been something like x 46, which is kind of crazy. But But yeah, it would still be an X player because this cage just Yep. And
Nick VinZant 29:35
man, but there's no indication that like, Okay, this happens every so often this happens every, you know, like an earthquake, like, all right, well, every 300 years, we're gonna get another one.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 29:45
I mean, we don't I mean, the the estimate is that this kind of very strong events should happen once every more or less 150 years. So it's time now. But the point is that Okay, even if it happens, it could happen on the far side of the sun, and does not come to us at all. So there has been in 2012, a pretty pretty strong CME launch from the sun, but it missed us because it was just not launched in our direction. So this CMEs are very big, but, you know, if you consider, okay, if you consider the sun and all the other planets being more or less on the same plane, close to the solar equator. So now we only consider 360 degrees. I mean, there have been CMAs that have been so so large that they could almost cover 180 degrees, but you know, on average, they covered like 90 degrees, more or less of the, you know, of the full circle. So there are many of them that just don't come to us because they're just going in another direction. So yes, the sun will pretty for sure have another huge eruption. When we have no idea and in which direction, we have no idea. So it could it could happen tomorrow misses
Nick VinZant 31:06
does it like move? Okay, this may be a ridiculous question, or a brilliant question. Does it move the planet, right? Like, I'm just imagining this thing coming and bumping against our shield? Like, does it push us backwards? Or in any direction? Oh,
Dr. Erika Palmerio 31:19
no, no, but it does, like it does compress the magnetosphere. So like there are metal sphere is very, I don't know, I like to think about it as somebody that is breathing with the sun with the solar wind. So if we have like, stronger, faster solar wind, it will compress on the day side, obviously. So the side that is facing the sun. If we have very slow wind and very calm conditions, it will it will bounce back out. If we have a very strong storm, it's going to be compressed, almost coming towards very, very closer to like Earth's atmosphere and stuff like that. But the Earth itself will not change its path.
Nick VinZant 32:03
That's good. I'm imagining like somebody sitting on one of those exercise balls. Oh, yeah, that's kind of what I imagined. It's like, like, go you get a big one. It's going to compress it a lot. But it's still okay. It's still okay.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 32:15
Yeah, yes, exactly. Um,
Nick VinZant 32:18
I guess what's like, what's your biggest? What would be your biggest fear about it?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 32:23
I think that the most the thing that would, that worries me the most is probably astronauts health. Because you know, these people are out there and like, you know, exploring space and the cosmos for us. And I would like for them to stay imperfect as
Nick VinZant 32:41
it kind of sounds to me, like we should be very afraid and not afraid at all right. Like it would ruin society. But we would live through it at least, if we oh,
Dr. Erika Palmerio 32:51
I mean, yeah. I mean, you know, humanity, survived for millions of years without even knowing about solar activity. We didn't have technology back then. But we survived. Yes.
Nick VinZant 33:05
Is our governments or entities like doing something about this, like, hey, one of these is going to hit us and it's going to be a big problem, we should probably prepare for this.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 33:15
So some countries have started to declare space weather as you know, national catastrophe or national disaster class, as if you know, as an earthquake, or, you know, just as something that to be aware of. Now, obviously, I'm more informed about well, Finland, which is where I studied at university, and obviously the US because that's where I live and work now. So I will talk about the US. In the US, we are not the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. I am the
Nick VinZant 33:53
always something it's no a That's what I remember, right? Yes. Which order is always like, wait.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 34:01
Yeah, I bet. I think the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, I'm the worst with acronyms, but I think it's correct. So they are the ones who do the official space weather forecasts and give out warnings. Not NASA. Uh huh. Did you know that? So they have this branch of law called sweep sea Space Weather Prediction Center, where they do and I mean, you can even go to the internet and look at their page. They have some nice overview pages, where they show what the Sun is looking out today with the solar corona is looking like today. We if there are any warnings out what's the probability of a big eruption happening? So for example, as I said, we don't know yet how to predict when an eruption will happen, but for example, what they do know is that they look All the strong regions have stronger magnetic field on the Sun called active regions. And they look at how complex the magnetic field is or how strong it is. And then they say, Okay, if an eruption happens from there, what's the probability that we're going to have a strong radiation event? So things like this, it's all things that you can find on their web website.
Nick VinZant 35:26
But is there anything that we can fundamentally do or like, no technology operates on this, and the soul and space weather would disrupt this, and it's like, there's nothing you can do.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 35:37
Now, I mean, the most important thing is to protect our satellites, because you know, even if, I mean, obviously, I'm mostly interested in the scientific satellites, but, but a lot of stuff works in satellite TV, some TV, I think, the GPS, of course, military satellites, all of these things are like, there are so many satellites up there that, that we, that contribute to our daily life, and we don't even know sometimes. So anyway. So that is, what comes goes into preparedness to space where there is either shutting down satellites on time, so you know that something big is coming, shut down the satellite so that you protect the instruments. And four here again, for down on Earth, yeah, shutting down a transformer going on backup battery powers, you know, so all these things like to try to turn off the main systems until the conditions are back to being quiet.
Nick VinZant 36:41
That seems like a good plan.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 36:44
Yeah, I mean, that's how we want to be prepared. Now the hard part is to, is to be able to exactly predict when something is happening, how
Nick VinZant 36:51
much time do we generally have, though, right?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 36:55
For flares, you know, or radiation coming from flares, and the very initial launch of a CME, about 30 minutes on Earth? Oh, that's not a bit more, a bit more on Mars.
Nick VinZant 37:10
That's not a lot of time. Yeah. And then
Dr. Erika Palmerio 37:13
for the CME, which is the geomagnetic storm, but but for the CME or geomagnetic storm, as I said, about three days, but if it's a very extreme event, tend to 20 hours if it's a Carrington level event, which is not something that we should expect,
Nick VinZant 37:31
essentially, they kind of your research right now, like, what are you working on? What are you finding that kind of stuff?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 37:37
My in my daily life, what first of all, I like to work on a lot of projects at the same time. So as probably most scientists just to spice up your life a bit. But what I work on the most is to what we call space weather research, as opposed to operations, right? Because operations are the people who have to look at this on predict what's going on now, right? Instead, I usually work on older events, or like events that have already happened, and either use very complicated computer models to try to understand from fundamental physics point of view what was going on with that event. And that would be to try to improve our knowledge of solid eruptions and the physics of these things coming towards us and driving storms. Sometimes, instead, some other projects are about doing what we call hind casts. So trying to use models that are a bit quicker, less complicated, and simulating what would happen if I had to forecast this event in real time. So trying to use only data that would be available in real time and see how the forecast would have been. Yes.
Nick VinZant 39:11
Okay. I'm going to show you this thing. We had run requests to show this and to see what you thought about that. This is from the movie knowing. I don't Oh, I do. I've
Dr. Erika Palmerio 39:23
watched that movie. If I remember correctly, that was from a solar flare,
Nick VinZant 39:29
right? Yeah. This is from a solar flare. I
Dr. Erika Palmerio 39:31
was this. I watched this movie so long ago. And it was I mean, I watched it back in the day with colleagues. And yeah, it was, it was a night like after work. We stayed in the you know, meeting room because we had this huge screen where we did your teleconferencing but we used to watch this and yeah, we laughed a lot. It was great. scientific accuracy, extremely low. Oh, this is not what, what would happen from us on our flight.
Nick VinZant 40:04
Like what I guess what about it is wrong? So,
Dr. Erika Palmerio 40:10
kind of everything. I mean, so. So first of all, like, we, we wouldn't have things going on fire like you know as a tsunami of fire. I don't think that's quite that would happen. Yeah that is yeah basically that tsunami of fire I mean very beautiful visuals. But also one thing that it's very important to clarify is that a flare and the CME are two very different things, they are part of the same eruptive mechanism so that they both happen during what we call to be in our understanding of our solar eruption works but a flare like you know, I, you hear a lot like in movies especially, or a flare is coming while the flare is not coming to earth, only the CMYK can come to earth, the flare is just this bright flash that you see on the sun. particles accelerated by a flare can come to earth, but the particles are very invisible. They wouldn't do that.
Nick VinZant 41:32
I mean, there's not going to be a giant sweeping thing of fire
Dr. Erika Palmerio 41:37
of fire nom, I know. I know. I also I also was very shocked to learn that now.
Nick VinZant 41:43
It's something like this, like is this visually in any way kind of accurate about like, Oh, this is happening at the edge of the magnetosphere know nothing about it. Not a single thing, right? No,
Dr. Erika Palmerio 41:59
unfortunately, unfortunately. Like, I know, you know, when people watch the Interstellar, especially scientists that apparently work on black holes, they were like, Oh, that looks so accurate. And you know, beautiful visuals. I mean, the beautiful visuals that we have in, in solar physics are well, the sun itself, which in my opinion is pretty beautiful to look at. And auroras but, you know, when there is a disaster going on you the only thing you can say you can the visual present, as you had to represent, like an actual disaster from solar weather from space weather on the movies, like you would see, probably Mission Control looking at, you know, the signal from a satellite and that the signal just dying. Which is very sad, but not very cinematographic. I would say, very, very, not not very Hollywood worthy. And maybe, yeah, you know, and then the power grids going off, so like, you know, Blackout Yeah, like, general blackout that happens sometimes in movies.
Nick VinZant 43:05
Um, is there anything that you think that we missed or anything like that? Or like dishes, the coolest thing?
Dr. Erika Palmerio 43:11
Is, maybe are We are We monitored the sun Yeah, of like, measurements. Okay, so we look at this on from Earth, in a bunch of channels or wavelengths. Mostly, we look at solar activity in so called extreme ultraviolet, which is a bit stronger than water, Violet, which I'm pretty sure that everybody has heard of the UV. And where we can see a lot like, if you look at a picture of the Sun in UV light, it's completely different than what you would expect from from just you know, imagining the sun in the sky, there is so much activity going on and on these loops of plasma and very, these very bright regions of stronger magnetic field, the active region, you see so much going on, and you can see these eruptions being launched beautifully. So that's what we look at to see you know, when an eruption will happen or like the general structure of the solar magnetic field, then we can look at the corona, which I said was the outer layer of the solar atmosphere, this gigantic, with a very special telescope that is called the coronagraph, which is a telescope that creates a an artificial Eclipse. So basically, the status crops and they are mostly based in space. But they have a thing that is called an a culture that is literally covering the solar the bright solar disk, so that then we can reveal all the very, very, very faint Corona and then we can look, we can look at CMEs so when when, when they arrived, we see literally bright clouds moving away from the sun and becoming Have like by the time they are at about a few solar radii away from the Sun that already 10s of times bigger than the Sun itself, like they grow so fast, and they are, they are very spectacular to look at. And then we have some imagers scattered that look at the space between the Sun and Earth, but nothing that is fixed, looking always at the same at the same space. But then something that is very important is that we have our solar wind monitors at the so called point L one, which is the Sun earth Lagrange point at one, which is one of five very special points in space where the mutual gravity between the Sun and Earth makes them stable. So if you park a spacecraft there, it's gonna be there without using very with using very little fuel. And it's literally a parking spot in space. People who are interested in astronomy might have heard of as to which is the point where it actually the James Webb Space Telescope is now. So l one is between the Sun and Earth just 1% I had of Earth in when you consider the full Sun earth distance. And as to is behind earth. And the James Webb Space Telescope has to be there because it's using Earth as screen from the very bright sun. Because you know, to look at the universe, you don't want all the sun. So that perfect parking that that parking spot is perfect for for James Webb Space Telescope. But we are interested in the sun. So we are on the other side, getting old measuring at the spacecraft, all the solar wind that is coming. So when we have a CME coming, we measure it at L one, about 30 to 60 minutes before it's going to actually impact Earth. So that's another that's the warning time that we have at the moment 30 to 60 minutes where we are sure of what's coming because it has been measured. But obviously, what we want is to have the lead time going to many hours, possibly days, right. So there are some mission concepts of like parking a ring of spacecraft at Venus's orbit, Venus is at 70% The distance between Earth and the Sun. So which means that then the warning time would be would go from 30 to 60 minutes to about one day, you know, 18 to 24 hours, if we parkering of spacecraft there. But yeah, we have a lot of mission concepts coming out. So let's see, I'm very curious to see what will be approved for flying for improving our measurements around space.
Nick VinZant 47:45
That's kind of crazy, the idea that you can just like there's a parking spot in space.
Dr. Erika Palmerio 47:52
And actually from ESA, and NASA will contribute with one instrument they are sending I I think that for now the plan is for 2027 2029 but they will send a spacecraft at L five at the L five point that is 60 degrees. So if your earth and look at the sign, it's 60 degrees to your to your left. And from there, then you can see the solar eruptions coming straight at Earth much, much more easier than looking you know from Earth at something that is coming towards you, which is you know, there are all these projection effects when you look at to the images. So yeah, very exciting that we will have a mission that will be parked there at this L five parking spot and we'll look at solar options for
Nick VinZant 48:44
us and how much how much extra time would that give us
Dr. Erika Palmerio 48:48
it's not much about the time because we're not measuring. Because that spacecraft will still be at the same distance as Earth from the Sun. So it's but but the point is that it's going to give us so much more confidence in understanding where eruptions are like what their propagation direction is, how big they are, are faster going so because when you have to well separated points to look at something into the images, then you can triangulate the thing you're trying to study and you get much less errors. So it's gonna I mean, it's it is going to give a lot of improvements in terms of space weather predictions, but not in terms of measuring the stuff that is coming straight at us locally, but in terms of making predictions from afar.
Nick VinZant 49:44
I want to thank Dr. Pol. Mario's so much for joining us if you want to connect with her. We have linked to her on our social media accounts. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included her information in the app pisode description if you want to see what some of this solar activity and what some of these solar flares really look like, the YouTube version of this interview will be live on September 28, at 4:30pm Pacific. Real quick, I want to take a second and thank one of the sponsors of our show in Cagni in cognitive mission is to help you take back control of your data privacy. We all know that data brokers and companies collect our personal information and then sell it and who knows where it goes in Cognis mission is to take your data back just as easily. Every year, identity theft seems to become a bigger and bigger problem, there has been a 68% increase in the number of data breaches in 2021 alone, and the likelihood of your data being stolen just keeps getting higher and higher. What incognito does is reach out to data brokers on your behalf, requests that your personal data be removed, and then deals with any objections from their side going forward. What data brokers do is if you make a request, they'll remove it. But then they go back. Incognito keeps that from happening through three easy steps, create an account, grant them the right to work, and then they will contact data brokers on your behalf and request that your data be removed permanently. And right now in Cagni is available risk free for 30 days. Anybody can try it. And if you don't like it, you'll get a full refund. We even have a special discount available. All you have to do is go to incognito.com/profound and enter the code profoundly. And you can try in Cagni risk free for 30 days. We've also put a link in the description along with that promo code if you want to check it out. Okay, now let's bring in John shawl and get to the pointless part of this show. What natural disaster Do you are you most afraid of? Like, oh, I'm really worried about this thing happening to me.
John Shull 52:18
I mean, I'm pretty terrified of like an asteroid hitting the Earth.
Nick VinZant 52:23
Oh, yeah. But that seems to be really random.
John Shull 52:27
Yeah, and it's, I don't know. I mean, it is possible, but is it in the realm of like, realistic possibility? Probably not. So, in saying that, I'll probably say,
Nick VinZant 52:39
Wait, why are you so afraid of an asteroid?
John Shull 52:43
I mean, because I feel like there's nothing that you can do. There's literally I mean, I hate to say like use use a movie for a for example. But it's it's there's nothing like Armageddon, right?
Nick VinZant 52:58
Isn't Armageddon the movie where they like send up oil drillers or something? I never understood that premise of the movie. Like, hey, you know what, you can figure out how to get a spacecraft into space. But there's no way you can be all figured out this oil drill man. Like, you may be a genius, but you're not smart enough for it. Like that movie made no sense. Right? Like, I understand that you can learn how to do the build a rocket, but you don't know how to operate a drill.
John Shull 53:27
Yeah, it's
Nick VinZant 53:30
when did you start to become one did you when did you become afraid of asteroids?
John Shull 53:34
Not really. You just asked me. You asked me like what I would like if there was one natural disaster that I would be most fearful of. And I think that would be it. Plus, I did just watch a video and I don't know how old this is. I think it's relatively new of a an asteroid hitting the moon. And it I mean, it was massive.
Nick VinZant 53:56
Yeah. Yeah. That I mean, that's one of those that I don't worry about because it's like you're dead. Don't worry about it, man. Like, what's what's gonna happen to us? Well, you ain't gonna have to worry about it.
John Shull 54:08
I mean, if like I said, if I had to pick a, like a realistic one. Not that that can't happen, but something that could happen every year. Probably like, some kind of flooding.
Nick VinZant 54:20
Oh, yeah. I don't worry about flooding too much. I live in Seattle, where earthquakes are like a real thing. Right? Like the biggest natural disaster of all time. is supposed to happen here. Like at any time in the next 100 years. Like it's a real thing. Like oh, no, you really, you really got to be worried about that.
John Shull 54:39
I mean, it makes it makes no it does not surprise anybody that that of course is where you live. And that is where the world is supposed to start ending.
Nick VinZant 54:47
What is that? Oh, I see what she did. I see how you tied it at first. I was like, what is that? Oh, do you ever wonder if like all of this is real? Like there's no way that this like no there There's not space out there. There's not an asteroid like this is all just a computer simulation. I don't want to get into that whole, like conspiracy theory. But do you ever wonder if like, This can't be real like this? No.
John Shull 55:16
There are times in the morning to where, you know, I'm trying to get somewhere fast and someone pulls out. And then they're going 20 miles an hour. And then I hit every, you know, red light that I go to get on the highway. And there's an accident that just happened five minutes before I got on the highway. You know, just things like that, where I'm like, Is this a joke? Is this the Truman Show?
Nick VinZant 55:38
Yeah, I always wonder like sometimes, like, no, the sun's 93 million miles like, No, it's not.
John Shull 55:48
Just like, Does my wife actually love me?
Nick VinZant 55:53
Yeah, it's weird, right? It's weird because you live your whole life in your head. It's impossible sometimes for me to comprehend the idea though, like, Wait, there's somebody else living on the same planet having all their own thoughts at the same time. Like that's just wild to me.
John Shull 56:10
I mean, I do believe in I don't know that. The technical name of the theory but that there's a clone planet Earth, and we're just, you know, we're just reverberations of of the other person. That's somewhere that was somewhere else. And that's where deja vu comes into effect.
Nick VinZant 56:27
Oh, wait, you believe that?
John Shull 56:31
That's foolish as I probably sound, I think I think there is some validity to it. I don't know if I believe at all. But yeah,
Nick VinZant 56:39
man. That's pretty that's high up there. Right? Like you went from zero to 100. You went from? You skipped zero to 60. And went straight. Right? Like you don't Are you but you don't believe in a lot of other conspiracy theories?
John Shull 56:55
No, no, I mean, I I'm pretty sure I'm one of the beginning episodes of this podcast. I've fought against the science of dinosaurs.
Nick VinZant 57:05
Yeah, you did it dark chapter in your life?
John Shull 57:09
Don't. Some people still haven't let me live that down? Well, you shouldn't
Nick VinZant 57:13
write I don't think that people should be allowed to live things down. I think that you need to be reminded of the person that you once were so that you don't become that person again. And that goes for everybody. Right? Like you need to you need to be checked every couple every once in a while.
John Shull 57:28
I mean, you stay say dumb things you should have to own up to them and right. Anyways, yes, I. I mean, explain deja vu to me. If you if somebody can give me a valid explanation as to why that feeling occurs, then then maybe I won't believe that there's some kind of mirror planet somewhere.
Nick VinZant 57:51
I mean, I'm not going to look it up, because it's not that kind of show. But I think it's like a mess. I think it's like a misfiring of your brain somehow. And that you think this thing has happened before, when in reality, it hasn't. Like, just just like your brain, like, took a left when it should have taken it right. Like it happens.
John Shull 58:11
I do think that everything comes down to your brain, right? Everything. Your brain is a powerful friggin thing. And you're probably right, it's probably just a misfiring or something, something to that effect.
Nick VinZant 58:24
If you could be a brain in a jar, like would you do it? Not for all time. Like this is like, Hey, you can be five years just hanging out as a brain in a jar.
John Shull 58:35
I mean, that doesn't sound fun to me. I know that sounds terrible.
Nick VinZant 58:39
Would you okay, what length of time? Would you be willing to be a brain in a jar?
John Shull 58:44
Like, what am I doing? Just sit hanging out, you're just observing
Nick VinZant 58:46
the world. You can watch it you get your like observing the world in front of like a bunch of TV monitors. You can see whatever's going on. You have access to the internet to be seen in a jar.
John Shull 58:58
I have no desire to do that. I don't care that much about everybody else
Nick VinZant 59:04
to a day. Would you do it for a day?
John Shull 59:08
I mean, I'll do it for a month. How about that? I'll do it for a month, man.
Nick VinZant 59:11
I honestly, I don't think I would do it for an hour.
John Shull 59:16
I mean, I think you would become overwhelmed like that. What's that movie with Jim Carrey? Where he's got or it gets to play God.
Nick VinZant 59:24
Bruce Almighty. Steve Almighty, there's a couple of them.
John Shull 59:29
Yeah, but Bruce Almighty where he you know, has to whatever. He gets God's powers and he just gets everyone's problems and everyone's complaints and it's like, yeah, man, if there was overwhelming
Nick VinZant 59:44
Yeah, if there was a God, he would they would be pretty sick of our shit. Right? Could you imagine? Like, let's not get into religion or condemn it or condone it or anything like that. But could you just imagine if you were like, all powerful God and you just listened to people shit Whole day, like fuck no wonder they left.
John Shull 1:00:05
Yeah, no, I
Nick VinZant 1:00:07
have 7 billion people's thoughts all the time.
John Shull 1:00:11
No,
Nick VinZant 1:00:12
I may have no. Right. You'd be so rude to people.
John Shull 1:00:18
We should probably stop having this conversation. We don't want to become that kind of show.
Nick VinZant 1:00:22
Right? That's just to like, man, that dudes out on the road, right. Okay. Anyway, all right, well, let's
John Shull 1:00:31
all right. Yes, let's do some shout outs, shall we? Let's see, we'll start with Jamie Ford.
Nick VinZant 1:00:36
That's the thing that if a God does exist, there is one person in the universe that is his least favorite person. Think about that, right? In the entire universe history. If there is a God, there's somebody who is their least favorite person of all time.
John Shull 1:00:55
Yeah, it's probably pretty easy to determine who,
Nick VinZant 1:00:59
right like how much would you have to suck?
John Shull 1:01:02
I mean, you can probably narrow it down to a handful of people as to who God hates, you know, dislikes the most, but
Nick VinZant 1:01:10
I'm not I don't think it would be like a big historical figure. Right? I don't think it would be like that. Like, what if it was just somebody from like, Steve, from Biloxi, Mississippi was just the worst person? Like that guy. Just wind all the time.
John Shull 1:01:27
No, I still think it'd be some terrible historical person.
Nick VinZant 1:01:32
I don't think so. I think it would be just some random person.
John Shull 1:01:36
He, you know, God would be like I, I helped create this blob of blonde. Look what they did.
Nick VinZant 1:01:45
Yeah. I just think it would be like somebody that did nothing, though. Right? Like I gave this guy, a 48 inch vertical. He could run a four four. He was handsome, good looking smart. Funny, and he just sat around and complained all the time. I think I'd be somebody like that.
John Shull 1:02:07
I don't think I I don't think God is just up there going. Paul from Connecticut, you son of a bitch. Right?
Nick VinZant 1:02:17
Like but there has to be somebody. Stat Stacy, if you could interview the all powerful being and be like, who did you like the least? I think probably amazing.
John Shull 1:02:32
The answer probably would surprise everyone. I I agree with you that it's probably not you know, the obvious choices. Or choice, I think but that'd be quite interesting. You should throw out an invite. See if if God wants
Nick VinZant 1:02:45
to come on, right. Like I don't think it would be somebody like Stalin. It would be like Paula, from accounting. I hated that lady. I think that'd be amazing.
John Shull 1:02:59
Karen from Arizona.
Nick VinZant 1:03:00
Karen from Arizona was just the worst. That haircut she had was just atrocious.
John Shull 1:03:10
All right, well, let's try this again, showing Jamie Ford. Tony, Ill enough. Nicholas, standard zu ski. And I don't think I'm saying that wrong. No,
Nick VinZant 1:03:25
as a Polish person. I can tell you that you're not.
John Shull 1:03:28
Thank you. Alice Egan. Eriko Nieves Oliver Blaze. And Emilia Francis Ladner Colt Radloff. I don't know how I feel about the name called but
Nick VinZant 1:03:45
it's okay in very small doses, but it has to be very small doses. I can stand in one cold out of every 100,000 people. That's a very specific myth. Yeah, I can only know one cold. I don't want to ever know more than one.
John Shull 1:04:02
All right. Maxwell Piper, and we're going to end here on doc even house.
Nick VinZant 1:04:09
talkies in house. How do you spell dog TOC? TOC, huh?
John Shull 1:04:16
All right. Well, got some
Nick VinZant 1:04:20
bangers. Oh, the suspense. I didn't know where you were gonna go.
John Shull 1:04:25
I know. Right? Bring crafty bastard. You, you? Well, that's what happens when you've been doing this for six years. I gotta keep you on your toes somehow. All right. Got a few of them actually.
Nick VinZant 1:04:38
Oh, man. Maybe next time, right? Like don't don't shoot your whole wad at one time. Right?
John Shull 1:04:44
Speaking of shooting your watch. Would you rather have sex as much as you want for five years and the prime of your life or be guaranteed to have sex once every two weeks? For the rest Have your life? Well, I'd rather
Nick VinZant 1:05:01
spaced it out. Right? Because even if that's five years in the prime of your life, it's only like 22 to 27. So you're going for an incredibly long time without it. Now, I don't think I'm going to be interested in having sex past the age of 50 more than maybe once or twice a year, quite frankly. But I don't want to go from like 30 to 40 and not have it.
John Shull 1:05:25
I don't know. Twice a
Nick VinZant 1:05:27
week is a lot. Wait, what was the how many times was it?
John Shull 1:05:31
Once every two weeks? Oh,
Nick VinZant 1:05:34
that's yeah, that's easy. All right. Right, that's like, Yeah, dude, would you like a winning lottery ticket? Or would you like to lose forever? Like, yeah, I'll take the ticket. Come on. No, you didn't think that through?
John Shull 1:05:49
No, I think I did. I as much as you want unlimited sex for five years. During the prime, the prime doesn't have to be 27 or 22. Through 27. It can be 30 through 30. You know, whatever. Five, it can be four to 35 through 40.
Nick VinZant 1:06:07
Yeah, I don't don't really I mean, if I was to say how many times I want to have sex right now in my life a week The answer would be once, twice, honestly, like, I really don't really want to do it that much more than that. Right. So even in the prime of your life, like I don't understand. You're just doing it out of boredom. At some point.
John Shull 1:06:31
I get I think you're speaking for yourself. But that's that.
Nick VinZant 1:06:34
How many times a week would you honestly want to have sex right now at your age?
John Shull 1:06:40
I mean, we're still in the prime of her life.
Nick VinZant 1:06:42
And if I What if I did? Well, on the downside of the prime, that's no.
John Shull 1:06:47
Well, yes, definitely. We're sliding down the slippery back of like, those
Nick VinZant 1:06:52
tires are starting to be worn out.
John Shull 1:06:54
I mean, if I didn't have children, young children, it would be four to five times a week.
Nick VinZant 1:07:00
Oh, yeah, that's still right. Like, that's still not like you're gonna say four to five times a day. So that's not like right later, you could have unlimited buffet. Well, at some point, you're, you don't want to want to eat anymore.
John Shull 1:07:13
See, well, I mean, I need the buffet. All
Nick VinZant 1:07:15
I know, but you wouldn't go back breakfast. Like, I know one person who actually went to a lunch buffet and stayed through dinner. And they charged him again. And he paid it and they stayed there. Oh my god there for eight hours. Which is incredible. He's like, You did what? It's like, yeah, I just I just I was still there
Unknown Speaker 1:07:36
would
Nick VinZant 1:07:39
be being at a restaurant being like, sir, you. You have to pay again. And they're just like, Okay.
John Shull 1:07:47
I mean, I just feel like did they get there one and stayed to like six? Because if they did, that's pretty incredible. That's impressive.
Nick VinZant 1:07:56
I don't remember the exact hours. It wasn't like they got there at three and then it switched over to dinner buffet at four. They were there for I want to say they were there for two solid hours of the lunch buffet and then two solid hours of the dinner buffet. Which is right like,
John Shull 1:08:16
that's incredible. Yeah, it was bad. I you know, it said I haven't been back. I haven't been in a buffet since the pandemic and it's not because I haven't like wanted to go I just haven't gone like the pandemic. You know, it didn't stop me from going. I just haven't gone to a buffet I need to change that.
Nick VinZant 1:08:36
I don't I'm not really very interested in buffets to be honest with you. My interest for buffets has waned, or waxed, gone down whichever one of those is not as interested in buffets that I was the younger man.
John Shull 1:08:52
Would you rather would you rather be with the hardest looking person you've ever seen, but be the poorest you've ever been? Or be with the ugliest person you've ever seen? But be the wealthiest you've ever been? Well, both of those problems
Nick VinZant 1:09:07
are going to correct itself. If you make it be with the hottest person you've ever seen, but if you're the poorest, chances are they're not going to be around very long. And you could be with the ugliest but if you're the richest, well you can fix that solution. So the ugliest when riches would be okay. Right? Like yeah, you can. You can buy a lot of things with a lot of money. Take that in whichever direction you want to go.
John Shull 1:09:34
See if you're just listening to this podcast for the first time. This is what Nick does to these questions. He doesn't just answer he has to he has to think about it. And you but you do it so fast. It's like a gift I mean you are able to break down something so quick in in just explain it. It's it's a good quality to have.
Nick VinZant 1:09:52
It's probably actually my only talent. If you think about it if I was to like pinpoint one talent would be to be able to size up a city duration and make a decision very quickly. It doesn't get me anywhere, besides like having a quick answer for your questions, but that would probably be that and picking out a watermelon. I'm pretty good at that. Those would be my two greatest talents in life, neither of which has produced any sort of success.
John Shull 1:10:21
The last one here. It's interesting that we were talking about God earlier, because I literally wrote down these questions this afternoon. But would you rather have a beer with Jesus? Or a beer with with your favorite celebrity?
Nick VinZant 1:10:34
Oh, well, Jesus. Why wouldn't you? Why would you? You're gonna pick like, Taylor Swift over Jesus.
John Shull 1:10:42
I see. That's, I know. It sounds funny. Right. But I feel I think it'd be split down the middle. I really do. I think so. I do, I think I think it would be I mean, I'd have to think about it,
Nick VinZant 1:10:54
you have a chance to speak with an all powerful being and you're gonna go ahead and choose like Dwayne The Rock Johnson instead, like, hey, Jesus, sorry about the rocks here.
John Shull 1:11:07
I mean, for me, I'd have to think about it
Nick VinZant 1:11:10
that would immediately vault you into probably the most disliked person that have won the greater power has ever, ever created, they would be like, that was my biggest mistake of all time, who John Shaw was, I gave him a chance to talk to me, or Hulk Hogan, and he chose Hulk Hogan.
John Shull 1:11:34
I'm just I'm just saying it would be difficult. And I don't think I'd be the only one. That would have to double think it.
Nick VinZant 1:11:41
I think you probably are, dude. I know. Thank
John Shull 1:11:44
you. So man. I mean,
Nick VinZant 1:11:47
maybe not the only one. But I would say 99% of people are going to be like, yeah, man, I talked even if they're not religious. Like you wouldn't want to just be like, Hey, man, what happened back there? Right, like going on around here? Or, or you
John Shull 1:12:03
could have a chat with like, George Washington or somebody like that, or you know, or have a beer with them.
Nick VinZant 1:12:08
You don't think that Jesus is going to know about them? He could answer any question that you wanted. You could even talk to Jesus about your most biggest fan celebrity and he would know better than they would. You're not thinking this through.
John Shull 1:12:26
But they're not there in the flesh. You know what I mean?
Nick VinZant 1:12:30
The all powerful being of the universe is there in the flesh, and you're gonna be like, Nah, man, stone cold. Want to find out about the stunner?
John Shull 1:12:40
Let's mean stone cold open and a couple of beers. Cod. Man gonna have gonna have a hot toddy with Jesus over here. No,
Nick VinZant 1:12:48
what I would honestly do what I would honestly do. Your decision would doom the human race. If I was an all powerful being and I gave you the choice to talk to me or to stone cold, Steve Austin, and you chose Stone Cold Steve Austin, I would immediately blow up the planet and be like, this whole thing is gone. Right? This whole thing was a mistake.
John Shull 1:13:16
Made if that's what you're basing it on. That's that. That seems like a drastic emotional
Nick VinZant 1:13:20
thing. That would be you know what, and I think that whoever else is up there like it his buddies he's talking to? They'd be like, Yeah, that's what you had to do. They would be like he did what?
John Shull 1:13:32
No, I don't think it would even matter. I think,
Nick VinZant 1:13:35
What celebrity would you choose to talk to you over Jesus?
John Shull 1:13:40
I mean, there's I like, it's all I said was, I'd really have to think about it, who I would choose. That's all it said.
Nick VinZant 1:13:49
I just can't believe I'm worried about our society. I'm worried. I feel like calling Child Protective Services for your children.
John Shull 1:14:00
I mean, I'm just I'm Yeah, I wasn't gonna I don't think maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like it would be 5050 I feel like 50% of people would say that's a stupid question. Of course, you'd have the invite and you take a day Jesus up for a drink, but then the other 50% of people are would be
Nick VinZant 1:14:17
Hmm, okay. Do you have any other bangers
John Shull 1:14:20
Do you know, that's it, man.
Nick VinZant 1:14:21
He really didn't like Jesus is going to be there and he's just gonna appear at somebody, like think about this. Jesus is just going to appear in front of you. And he's like, poof into existence and be like, Hey, John, I'm Jesus. I created the universe. Do you want to talk to me have a drink? Or would you like to talk to Pauly Shore? And you'd be like, Oh, well. I am a fan of Pauly Shore. Like, could you imagine that? Dude, you knew and you wouldn't do it.
John Shull 1:14:53
I mean, that's part of the thing. Maybe God and or Jesus is this pompous person who you wouldn't even want Have a beer with anyways, you still
Nick VinZant 1:15:01
want to find out about the universe, right? You're not going to ask any questions. What would the first question you asked to Jesus be?
John Shull 1:15:09
Am I? Oh, no. I mean, I would probably have something stupid like, so what am I going to die? And how am I going to die? No, I don't think that's stupid. If you'd be like, well, it's gonna be when you walk out of this bar, and you're gonna get hit by a car.
Nick VinZant 1:15:24
I think the thing that I would ask would be like, is there any chance I could go again? Any chance? I'm going again? Maybe like, Nah, dude. You got about five left, actually. So y'all mean crap. We're not religious either. I'm not a religious person. But I do think the concept of whatever let's just move on. This is a neck for people who may be listening for the first time. We're not a religious or a political show. We just got sidetracked on this. It is kind of interesting. Like, what would you do? Like well?
John Shull 1:15:54
Well, I mean, Jesus is there or the rock walks and I'm probably gonna go out some tequila with the rock for an hour.
Nick VinZant 1:16:00
What do you think Jesus is gonna drink? What do you think he's gonna have for a drink? Like if you sat down for a beer with Jesus, what do you think he's drinking?
John Shull 1:16:11
Probably something like super like probably something super strong. Like maybe just whiskey just out of the bottle. I
Nick VinZant 1:16:19
think he goes beer. Do you think he goes hard liquor?
John Shull 1:16:23
He goes hard liquor. I think I can
Nick VinZant 1:16:25
see Jesus having like a whiskey or a tequila
John Shull 1:16:32
Yeah, but knowing Knowing my luck, you know, he he be like, What do you want? Cosmopolitan, please. Oh,
Nick VinZant 1:16:39
God, what if Jesus drinks like a sex on the beach? He's Jesus. Well, everybody's gonna start drinking sex on the beaches. I'll tell you that.
John Shull 1:16:48
You can drink whatever he wants to. Unless the rocks there and then I'll be talking to somebody else. God, I
Nick VinZant 1:16:55
mean, I hope that's just didn't do much, right. You're worried about an asteroid? Well, they're sending it now.
John Shull 1:17:04
Who was they?
Nick VinZant 1:17:06
Whoever it is, okay. Oh, is
John Shull 1:17:08
that your whole thing? That's it, man. Okay, so
Nick VinZant 1:17:10
our top five is top five best things about fall? Sure. Number five.
John Shull 1:17:17
Well, my first question to you is has the weather officially started to cool down in Seattle.
Nick VinZant 1:17:23
I mean, it's Seattle. So not that much not like in other parts of the country, Seattle, if you would like this whole rant has a very temperate climate, it rarely gets below 30 And rarely gets above 75. It's very, very reliable climate because it's right next to the ocean so it doesn't swing up and down, like other places that I've lived.
John Shull 1:17:46
Sounds terrible. But all right. The seasons in Michigan have changed quite a bit and it's still 60 to 70 degrees come Halloween. And that is that is kind of absurd. Because I remember when I was a child, that would be 40 degrees and snowing some Halloween. Halloween. Yeah, it's my dad walk around with his Bud Light in his, you know, jacket, telling me to go back to a house again to get the same candy because I gave out the nice candy bars instead of the shitty ones.
Nick VinZant 1:18:16
Yeah, you wouldn't do that. That's good parenting. Go back.
John Shull 1:18:22
I remember one time I went to the same house and the person goes, Did not just see. That's a no must have been the other Pillsbury Doughboy. Ah,
Nick VinZant 1:18:31
you gotta give it like 30 minutes.
John Shull 1:18:33
Well, you know, anyway, it's my number five. I'm speaking of what we just kind of alluded to, I'm going with the cooler weather.
Nick VinZant 1:18:43
That's your number five. I have a hard time not putting that a lot higher is the change in the weather?
John Shull 1:18:50
Well, I actually don't mind the hot weather. And I think people always say, Man, I'm ready for the cooler weather. And then when you get up and you have to start your day and it's 40 You know, 3040 degrees. Then you're like, Man, I wish it was still warmer outside.
Nick VinZant 1:19:04
Mornings mornings when it's dark and cold. That's that's tough. That's to me. The hardest part about falling winter. The change in the morning to change in the sunlight. My number five is hoodies. I love wearing hoodies, man. And you can start rockin hoodies in fall it's hoodies every day.
John Shull 1:19:24
Yeah, I don't actually disagree with you on that. Fall fall clothing is it's better than summer clothing and way better than winter clothing.
Nick VinZant 1:19:34
Yeah, fall I think is the most comfortable clothing season. For sure. Yeah. Because even though summer you could make an argument that that's the most comfortable you're wearing the least. I'd like to be you know, I like to be little wrapped up. I don't mind a little blanket. I like little lounge pants. Right? You can't do that in summer. You can't put a blanket on it. Someone can tuck you wet shirt on in summer.
John Shull 1:19:58
Just pull up Put the nifty bed.
Nick VinZant 1:20:01
I don't mind being tucked in. You wouldn't want to be tucked in right now.
John Shull 1:20:06
No, I don't actually like, I don't like, like the feeling of being tucked in.
Nick VinZant 1:20:11
It bothers you. The last time somebody tucked you into bed, it's probably been like 30 years if you think about
John Shull 1:20:19
Yeah, I don't remember the last time I've ever been tucked in. I don't
Nick VinZant 1:20:23
remember the last time but I'm sure it was when our moms were little kids. They tucked us into bed.
John Shull 1:20:29
Knowing that now, nobody my wife doesn't even know I'm in the bed half of the time.
Nick VinZant 1:20:34
No, she knows.
John Shull 1:20:35
Oh, all right, my number. My number four is just the colors of the season change. And it kind of goes a lot I was trying to figure out a way to fit in like candles in there and like smells. But I went with color change instead because it really is. The leaves in the grass. It's it goes from these dark blues and greens to just death and destruction. Jesus just goes poof you don't have a beer with me and everything turns gray.
Nick VinZant 1:21:06
That's how it works man also that is like the weenie just answer that I thought that you were gonna give. Like I really love the fall colors. I don't want to hear about fall colors. I don't want to hear about pumpkin spice lattes, fall colors or anything like that. That's the worst part about fall to me is you gotta hear everybody talk about the same stuff.
John Shull 1:21:27
I don't want to hear it. Well, you're gonna hate my number one then.
Nick VinZant 1:21:31
My number four is the holidays. I like the holidays. I'm a firm believer that the year ends the week before Thanksgiving the years essentially over right before Thanksgiving the week of when the when the week of Thanksgiving the year is over. You have no more responsibilities at work. Nobody's paying attention. Everybody's checked out for the rest of the year.
John Shull 1:21:52
I don't know what business you're in.
Nick VinZant 1:21:55
Well, most of the world
John Shull 1:21:58
Yeah, I know. Fuck. My number. I'm just gonna move on from that. My number three is like late night fires.
Nick VinZant 1:22:08
Hmm
John Shull 1:22:11
just sitting around firepit with when it's it's not too cold to have a fire but it's just cold enough to where you know you get in your fall gear and you sit around a fire Yeah, some cold beers. It's it's probably one of my favorite things to do all year.
Nick VinZant 1:22:26
My I agree with that. I do like sitting by fire. I enjoy sitting by a fire. Yeah, there's something very nice about that. My number three is football. Not because I like football that much but because there's just it's an event there's always something kind of going on with football like oh, you can do that at the very least. That kind of brings like an excitement to the year I think that football does that.
John Shull 1:22:53
I mean not only does the fall bring football but you have hockey, basketball. Baseball Playoff soccer year round nobody cares
Nick VinZant 1:23:01
about that the Polo championship badminton regionals. Okay Don't Don't hate all bad, but I loved on it and honestly, that's one of those sports I wish we played more like I love badminton racquet ball, that stuff's fun as hell hitting the ball with a racket Washington bang off of things. It's amazing.
John Shull 1:23:22
All right, my number two is kind of piggybacking on what you said is just the holidays. I don't agree with you that the years ends at Thanksgiving but you know, you kind of you kind of start the season right with Halloween and Thanksgiving and then the whole month of December is just you know, Christmas and then you go into New Year's it's it gives you something to look forward to. Especially when the weather at that point, usually pretty shitty.
Nick VinZant 1:23:48
I can make an argument that if you're not in kind of like retail, or anything like that, that your year kind of ends with things with Halloween. The years kind of over with Halloween, like I'm not really doing anything after that, like November and December, nobody's getting big projects done.
John Shull 1:24:10
Well, that's good for them. I guess.
Nick VinZant 1:24:13
My number two is laziness. Laziness is one of my favorite things about fall because you don't have to do anything. You can just be inside. You don't have to do anything. And the weather's not so bad like it is in winter, where you can't really do anything or it's very difficult to do something. Fall to me is the laziest season.
John Shull 1:24:35
Yeah, because you're not necessarily getting the snows that you have to go and take care of. But it's usually cold enough to where you don't want to do anything then like you said, there's football on something to do.
Nick VinZant 1:24:49
It's the laziest season in my opinion. That's I like that right? Like I don't really have to do stuff like summer you always feel like I be out there doing something.
John Shull 1:24:57
We gotta we'd go into the shit out of my shell. All right, gotta go
Nick VinZant 1:25:01
mow the lawn. You got to go to the beach. You got to go to the whatever but in fall, you're like to do that.
John Shull 1:25:10
Alright, my number one is the fall food.
Nick VinZant 1:25:14
Oh, I don't care about fall food at all. Oh man, what's up? What are you eating in fall this so special?
John Shull 1:25:21
Oh, I mean you name it. I mean we could talk about Thanksgiving alone. crock pot meals, hearty meals. You know just things kind of what you were like talking about laziness meals where you just want to go to sleep right after eating them.
Nick VinZant 1:25:40
Hmm. The only fall food that I like is chili. That's the only one that I'd be like, no, no, no, you got to wait for fall for some chili. Or assuming good like good thick soup. But other than that, I don't care about it.
John Shull 1:25:54
Chili soup like you know, it's usually obviously to kill to cold the grill outside so you might do some cooking on the stove. Just
Nick VinZant 1:26:05
my number one is what I think the only number one should be which is just not sweating.
John Shull 1:26:12
I've said that I don't mind sweating. I've told you that. I don't I don't I kind of like to sweat. It makes me feel alive.
Nick VinZant 1:26:17
Yeah, but just like doing nothing sweating. Like just being there being hot sweating. I don't enjoy that at all. Well,
John Shull 1:26:24
I mean, people can go to YouTube and I sweat just recording this.
Nick VinZant 1:26:29
Yeah, I can see it. Do you? Do you have anything your honorable mention?
John Shull 1:26:37
Um, I have like a Fall TV specials like holiday specials. I'm kind of a sap like I look forward to you know, like the the holiday movie marathons or? Or like the Charlie Brown Thanksgiving show, you know, are some of the artists musicians that do one off concerts in the fall? I like those.
Nick VinZant 1:26:58
I don't I've never paid any attention to those. I could care less about any of those things. I mean, not at all. Like it's surprising how little I care about it that like, Oh, that's a thing. Like, to me, I was actually shocked that that's something that other people actually enjoy. Oh, well, except for maybe the Thanksgiving Day. Maybe the Thanksgiving Day Parade or the Christmas parade? I can't remember it. That's like the only thing that I'd be like, Well, I'm gonna watch that.
John Shull 1:27:25
And then I also have on here, I didn't really know how to put this down in a concise manner. But I have I have like, like, themed food, like pumpkin spice at Starbucks. Or like Halloween cookies. You know, like, different different, like fall themed food that you can that seasonal seasonal food. There you go. fall seasonal food.
Nick VinZant 1:27:50
I think I hate stuff like that. Because I hate anything that I don't care about that I now have to either hear about a lot or pretend like I care about.
John Shull 1:27:59
I mean, the pumpkin spice phenomenon. God, it was a little much a few years ago, but it's it's it's not bad. I mean, it's not like it's a terrible product.
Nick VinZant 1:28:08
I just don't want to hear about it. I don't want to hear people say those words. Like oh, PSL. strike them down, Jesus. Oh, okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless, I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a rating, quick review. We really appreciate it. It really helps us out. And if you get a chance, and you really liked the show, we have been nominated for best interview podcast in the 2023 signal awards. So we've put a link to the voting site in the description. Really appreciate your support. Thanks. I'm so awkward at things like that. Because John and I just we're not good at any kind of self promotion. We're just terrible at it. And I feel like when we ever we try to do it, it just comes off weird like that. But anyway, let us know what you think are the best things about fall. And if fall I would I would honestly make a case that fall could be fall could be the best or at least the second best season. Let us know what you think.