What does your handwriting say about you? Graphologist Emma Bache studies people’s handwriting to reveal their real personality. We talk graphology, the red flags hidden in handwriting and reading between the lines. Then, it’s Taylor Swift against a host of other Taylors as we countdown the Top 5 Taylors of All Time.
Emma Bache:
Pointless: 34:24
Candle of the Month: 58:22
Top 5 Taylors: 01:02:38
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Emma Bache's Book: Reading Between the Lines: What your handwriting says about you
Interview with Graphologist Emma Bache
Nick VinZant 0:12
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode handwriting, and Taylor's
Emma Bache 0:21
graphology is the art of analyzing somebody's personality through their handwriting. So, you know, who knows whether either of them would have committed these crimes, if they haven't met each other? No, because they're all different things. The middle zone is to do with how somebody copes on a day to day level, it's also to do with their ego, and how practical they are.
Nick VinZant 0:44
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener. Welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest studies handwriting, specifically what your handwriting says about you. This is graphologist Emma Bache. What is graphology?
Emma Bache 1:14
graphology? is the art of analyzing somebody's personality through their handwriting.
Nick VinZant 1:20
What are you really looking at, though? Like, what about somebody's handwriting is telling you what their personality is, like,
Emma Bache 1:28
I'm looking at absolutely everything. I'm looking at the size, the individual size, the individual bit of letters, the zones, I'm looking at slant, I'm looking at the spacing, I'm looking at the pressure of the pen, I'm looking at all the little anomalies of every individual stroke, I'm looking at the layout on the page, and all these things together will give me a pretty good picture of the personality.
Nick VinZant 1:53
Yeah, what kind of things will generally tell you? Are we talking about kind of like big broad things, in the sense like this person is organized, this person is not organized? Or are we talking about really specific things like, this person's mother never really loved them. And it's reflected in their handwriting or something like that? Well, it's
Emma Bache 2:13
not going to tell me whether their mother really loved them or not, because that's, you know, gets into a little bit of a crystal ball. I mean, I wish I could do that. But um, it might, I might show up that they have mother issues, it might show up that how they are at mothering themselves, and they could be a man. So it shows up broad personality traits, but also more individual. I mean, for instance, I can tell the difference between somebody who's had a glass of wine and somebody who's an alcoholic, I can tell the difference between somebody who is strong willpower very ambitious, and somebody who's actually very aggressive and violent.
Nick VinZant 3:00
What is it about the writing, though, that is telling you something like, why would somebody's personality characteristics be reflected in their writing,
Emma Bache 3:09
because handwriting is a fine motor coordination. And when we pick up a pen or pencil or any writing instrument, with our hand, then actually it's our brain that's doing the action, not the hand is merely is merely a conduit to what how the brain is operating. And of fine motor coordination is influenced by how we expand or constrict our personality, which then goes on to the page, but also have very transient thoughts and feelings and physical, you know, physicality, how we're actually feeling. And also our emotional mental state, everything is, is reflected in that fine motor coordination.
Nick VinZant 3:56
Now, can you look at like any piece of writing? Or does it have to be somebody like sitting down and dedicating kind of to really writing something important, right? And then the example would be like, does it have to be a letter to somebody? Or can you look at like a post it note that somebody scribbled off like, get milk today
Emma Bache 4:13
shouldn't be a graffiti on a wall, it can be a doodle Eve, but that's another whole subject owner know, something that has been written more subconsciously like, like a post it note or a letter that I'm looking at historically, rather than what I don't like is somebody who writes something for me in front of me knowing that I'm going to analyze it. Sometimes I have no choice. If I'm writing at an event, then that happens. But the more subconscious the better. It is, and no, it can honestly it can be graffiti, so.
Nick VinZant 4:50
So how is this kind of viewed is this kind of viewed as like, Yep, this is an exact science. Is this a pseudoscience? How is it kind of it's not
Emma Bache 4:58
an exact OSI and I do it's not a pseudo science either. It's an inexact science in that in its basis, there are scientific justifications as to what our brain processes when we pick up a pen. But it's also it's an art in that I, as a human, of analyzing this person, but I'm putting everything together. But I mean, it's no less an inexact science, as many forms of forensic or psychology is. And that's what grifola G is, it's another form of psychology, it's another form of looking at an individual and trying to unravel what's going on beneath the surface. Why would
Nick VinZant 5:43
you say that? What would it what it is about it is the reason that it like it wouldn't be more accepted?
Emma Bache 5:49
Well, it when you say more accepted, it's because because it is an inexact science. And possibly because I live in England as well, we tend to be quite skeptical about things maybe more skeptical than the Americans definitely. And certainly more skeptical and say the North Europeans. People don't want to believe anything very easily unless they have an absolute tangible proof of something
Nick VinZant 6:20
that makes sense to me, right? Like I could see, because I do believe that little choices that people make really tell a lot about them, like you could walk into somebody's house Intel a lot about who they are. But I can also see it in the terms of handwriting of like, I put no thought into this thing that I just wrote and just did it as quickly as possible. You know, like, I could see it telling you a lot and I could see it kind of telling you nothing depending on the framing of
Emma Bache 6:46
it. But on the other hand, you can plant things in your house to give an impression to somebody that you're somebody that you're not. And a lot of people do that with with particular things they might have. Whereas the handwriting, honestly, it's it's You can't hide things from me, even if you try and hide things, then the speed of the writing slows down into something else. And handwriting changes all the time, because we change all the time. So if I'm analyzing somebody's handwriting, right now, it is how they are now, not how they were yesterday, or even four hours ago, and certainly not tomorrow morning. Now, they might be the same. But you know, depending on whether it's morning or night, or, or who they've just spoken to how they feel physically and emotionally, who they're writing about who they're writing to. All those things have have an effect on your personality
Nick VinZant 7:43
as a gruff ologists? Like what kind of work are you mainly doing?
Emma Bache 7:47
Um, I would say that probably 30% of my work is doing after dinner and keynote speaking and working at events, which is what I just did in San Francisco. But I also do quite a lot of forensic work. And then I would say, quite a lot of my work is helping large companies some American with recruitment. So I'm helping to draw up a shortlist to get absolutely the right candidate for the for the applicant.
Nick VinZant 8:17
So if somebody wants to hire say, like the new CEO or a high ranking position, they'll send you samples of someone's handwriting to look at well, yes. And
Emma Bache 8:25
I'd also need to look to see who's going to be working in the team, because after all, I can I need a brief the company or the individual who's employing to see what traits they're looking for and what they're not looking for. But I also need to see whether that individual is going to gel within the team.
Nick VinZant 8:43
Is it ever used by courts at all?
Emma Bache 8:45
Occasionally, yes, I do not work as an expert witness. In court. However, I am used by lawyers and security companies and individuals who may want to get the police involved with a possible crime that's been committed. And I also look at handwriting to see in my professional opinion if it's been forged or copied by somebody which of course that sort of work unfortunately tends to go up in times of economic downturn because white collar crime goes up
Nick VinZant 9:20
oh like third wanted to see if somebody really signed this thing. They want to match this handwriting to that handwriting that kind of stuff. Yeah.
Emma Bache 9:29
But but also there is that but also to look at criminal tendencies and people I mean, for instance, I've I'm there's a documentary came out in May, which is still there about Ian Brady, who you may have probably haven't heard of, but in the 1960s was terrible case of a man and a woman who were sort of lovers but actually he was gay and it's quite complicated, but they they kidnapped sexually abused and murdered a whole load of children in the north of England. they buried them in the malls in Lancashire, which is sort of wait a wild, sort of out of the way sort of fields and things. And they were captured but not before they've killed a lot of children. And they're both dead now, but they did a documentary on Ian Brady, who was the man and Myra Hindley was the woman. But it was about Ian Brady, who was actually even though he had a very bad upbringing and quite tragic upbringing. He was highly intelligent. And he was also a prolific letter writer. So they contacted me to see looking at his handwriting, there's letters as to whether there was any clue in the personality as to why we've done this. And whether I thought he was a sociopath.
Nick VinZant 10:47
What was your diagnosis? So
Emma Bache 10:49
what was quite chilling, what was quite chilling, exactly what was quite chilling was that I was looking at the original letters, they weren't copy, they were original. And he was mostly when he was in prison. And he was writing to, you know, people who took an interest in him or were writing to him. And I think there was a social worker involved and everything else. And what I saw was that he was certainly narcissistic, he was certainly obsessive compulsive. He was highly intelligent. He had a temper, but he, I, in my opinion, he was not a sociopath or a psychopath. And it was almost as though he was, I mean, deeply controlling. And then the woman that was very much the partner in crime also abused and murdered these children, boys and girls, and they tape recorded them when they were torturing them. What does that say? rific. She was not his intellectual equal. And he he basically controlled this woman. So, you know, who knows whether either of them would have committed these crimes? If they hadn't met each other?
Nick VinZant 11:59
How did you become a gruff? ologists? Like, how did how did you get into this,
Emma Bache 12:03
I've always been interested in psychology, I've always been interested in what makes people tick, and what literally is underneath surface. And a friend asked me to do a long, long time ago, 36 years ago, was to do a weekend workshop in it, and I loved it. And because of that, I then in joint vehicle, the British Institute of Technology, and I did a three year course with them. But I've now started to do my workshops at home, teach LP, because it was such a big influence on me just doing that workshop. That's really what got me hooked. So then
Nick VinZant 12:40
will you try to adjust your own handwriting? Oh, no, somebody study this know about it and be like, no, no, no, don't slant that a or whatever. When
Emma Bache 12:48
I was some training, I've become quite because obviously, we looked at each other's handwriting and everything else. And I'd become slightly paranoid neurotic about what people thought, but a, I'm too old, I don't care anymore. And be I really don't mix with other good colleges. I seriously do. I mean, I knew the names of other colleges, but I very much work on my own. And, you know, I have enough confidence my inability I do. I think, obviously, you get to my age, and you don't care what people think.
Unknown Speaker 13:20
You don't care. I
Emma Bache 13:21
mean, it's one of the massive advantages of getting up.
Nick VinZant 13:25
I feel like it starts at like, 30. And you just like, I just don't give a shit. Well,
Emma Bache 13:31
trust me, it's just really there.
Nick VinZant 13:35
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted question?
Emma Bache 13:37
Yes, absolutely. Let's do it. What letter tells
Nick VinZant 13:41
you the most about someone what letter kind of just tells you nothing.
Emma Bache 13:46
That's not the way I do it, because I'm looking at every single little individual thing about the writing, which we've covered before, but I'm also looking at the whole thing together. However, having said that, there's only one letter in the alphabet that goes to all suizo. And if you think about the baseline, the actual line or the imaginary line, and the little bit above that middle zone, and then the loops at the top is alpha zone, and then swinging loops at the bottom is lows and there's only one letter in the alphabet that that would go through all three and that's the letter F, but that doesn't make the letter F any more important than anything else. So no, there isn't there's no letter
Nick VinZant 14:24
is there a difference in those zones, right? Like where you can really see like, Okay, this zone, the top zone, the middle zone, the bottom zone, right? And I think a bit of like on the line kind of up towards that and then below that, yeah, speaking right is like, is there one zone that you would like okay, that's the one you really
Emma Bache 14:40
know because they're all different things. The middle zone is to do with how somebody copes on a day to day level, it's also to do with their ego, and how practical they are. The opposite tends to be thought processes the intellect maybe their beliefs if they've got a strong religious belief or and also to do with it cue as well, lower zone is more to do with their physicality and actually their sexuality as well. I mean, you know, if I'm giving honestly, I'm giving a talk or something like that, you know, especially the man, sorry to say they want to know about their lower zones, and they will, they will desperately, you know, adjusting the length of their lifts,
Nick VinZant 15:21
then there's a if you have a low low if you have a lower loop, does that mean that you may be heterosexual as opposed to homosexual? Or like, how does that what is the lower
Emma Bache 15:33
said the sex drive is sexuality? So if, if you put this out, everybody's gonna, um, well, I, there are certain traits. And I'm afraid I mean, this does sound very sexist and judgmental, but whatever. Male homosexuals often, often, but not always have particular traits, which I'm not prepared to say. But that's not to say that all gay men have this trait. Although when I see it,
Unknown Speaker 16:08
you have a suspicion. I've never been
Emma Bache 16:11
proven wrong. Let's just put it that way.
Nick VinZant 16:14
So have you ever had a circumstance then where like, you've been doing something and you see somebody's writing and like, oh, I don't know if they know that we're maybe you learn something that the person didn't know. Or somebody that the person was friends with? Didn't know you're talking
Emma Bache 16:29
about the gay thing?
Nick VinZant 16:32
Or just anything?
Emma Bache 16:33
Oh, yes. Oh, no, no, no, for sure. Oh, no, no, no, absolutely. No, no, no, no, yeah. It was about 10 years ago, and I was working to very large event, very large dinner, and I was sitting at a table and people were coming up to see me. I mean, there were hundreds of people that before dinner during dinner after dinner. And this man came up. And he was very nice. We were chatting format. Anyway, I looked at handwriting, and he just wanted to know. And you know, I just told him, I mean, I can't remember the specifics. But I do remember looking at his handwriting and just like, just singing, he was gay, but wasn't relevant commitment. You know, I assumed that. So but we just talked about other things. And we got on very well, anyway. Then he left, I saw loads of other people. And then a couple of hours later, this woman came to my table, and she said, Oh, you know, my husband came to me and said that, he'd come see you and you outsi brilliant and said, Oh, you must go and speak to Emma and everything else. So I looked at her handwriting. And you know, we talked about her and everything else. And I said to her, I said Who was your husband? And she said she described him? Okay. And I thought oh, okay, interesting. And then she said, Look, I need to talk to you in confidence about something and I could feel myself getting quite sweaty, you know, because I was like, and, and she said, I just you know, we've been married for 40 years or something. But I just feel as though there's something about him that I didn't know. And she said, I don't know what it is. But I always feel as though there's something that that and I honestly, I just had to lie, and I just said I've got no idea.
Nick VinZant 18:16
Oh, yeah, you can't be like, Oh, do you know? Oh, you can't see this G that's clearly like, yeah, that's you gotta bail. Yeah,
Emma Bache 18:29
I got no idea. You know, I did. But I remember thinking after it's good, my god,
Nick VinZant 18:36
does it matter? If somebody is right or left handed?
Emma Bache 18:39
It matters in that I can't tell. I've already told you I can't tell sex, but I can't tell the age of the person. And I can't tell if the right or left handed? And the answer to your question is it might matter. In the when we're taught to write certainly in the West, we're taught to write with a slight right slant. That's the sort of normal, you know, it doesn't matter if you have a left side, by the way, but that's what we're taught to write. However, if you're left handed, which is about 10% of the population, and some of that left hand, people write like this or the right, so as not to smudge the writing. And so if I see somebody who's got quite a severe left slot, or even a little bit of a left slot, it would have a different interpretation if it was written by left hander than if it was written by a right handed person. So it is quite important that I know but being realistic, often, I don't know, because I've given this handwriting and they I'm not told, or if it's a historical piece, I don't know.
Nick VinZant 19:44
But it wouldn't be like, Okay, you have this evaluation with somebody and that turns out like they're a jerk. They're mean they do all these bad things. But then you found out that they were left handed and actually no, they're actually really nice. Like, would it be a jerk? ematic 180
Emma Bache 20:01
No, not really, because because the left the handedness thing would affect the slot, you know, the slant of the writing, and starts really to do with, you know, our how sociable somebody is maybe their communication style. It would only be if they had very severe left slant, and then I might have to make investigations or whatever. So generally not. But it can explain certain things. I mean, as I explained before, no one trait means anything of on its own. However, every single trait means something so put together. It's very important, if that makes sense. I mean, on the workshop that I did, we were looking at, it's quite fun that we will look at Mother two A's as handwriting. Okay. So if you're going to say somebody who's nice, I mean, Mother Teresa sort of out there is that in somebody's mind, and it was the final thing. And yeah, these, you know, meant to be a nice person, but she's not incredibly, not totally nice, quite materialistic, actually. And, you know, there are lots of things that are surprising, not awful. But, um, these people, mainly middle age, I was trying to teach as a final thing of the weekend, I say, like, this is somebody who's famous, they're dead. It's a woman. I'm gonna give you, you know, 45 minutes to write a mini report on this person. So I went where I came back and said, what they said, up is just, I mean, I was actually weeping with laughter. But, you know, this terrible things, which I didn't agree with, you know, particularly they said, Oh, well, she's obviously a sloth.
Nick VinZant 21:46
Say that about Mother Teresa.
Emma Bache 21:48
But it was just the very idea of all land, right, the Fed looked at, do you know what I mean? I was, I was literally weeping with laughter. And I said, Well, you know, like
Nick VinZant 22:05
but that's like, something was so dark. That's one of those things that is just truly truly funny. Well, just truly,
Emma Bache 22:14
but but actually, what they were picking up on what they were picking up on, was the fact that there was a sense of duality there. But there was also the paste in us and the depth of the writing of the lower zone, pointed the fact that she was a little bit more materialistic than perhaps her reputation would go so that's what they were picking up on.
Nick VinZant 22:37
I know that you've analyzed some of the handwriting of some famous people like what who have you looked at what have you kind of found Well, I'm
Emma Bache 22:43
sometimes asked to analyze you know, pop stars or you know, Beyonce or whatever, but which, you know, has limited interests me but as well as criminals and things I will to analyze quite a lot of politicians whether their own our own politicians in it, Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak, Tereza May, I mean, whoever else has a very fleeting moment in our running our country, but also in America. Trump, you know, was incredibly famous for his shenanigans, perhaps as he did, but his handwriting was very individualistic, you always use a thick black felt tip pen, he sort of semi printed his writing. And so and then Biden has other different issues problems going on. So I and I've also analyzed Kim Jun and Putin, and which is interesting.
Nick VinZant 23:40
So now I'm super curious, though. What did you What did you think of I guess, what characteristics Did you find from Trump and what from Biden?
Emma Bache 23:48
Well, Trump again, our perception of Trump, you know, because people said, Oh, well, he's a sociopath, isn't he? Well, we tend to use that word with anybody that we think is negative we don't like and whatever the plenty of unlikable traits with Trump. Now he wasn't a sociopath. But again, he was narcissistic, but he had total conviction in what he believed he was saying, you know, I mean, I know people say he was a liar and everything else. Well, yeah, he did lie, but I think at the time, you've thought he was saying the right thing. So you know, he was a great self publicist, narcissistic and Biden is harder to read and and perhaps a little bit more thoughtful there. Having said that, Trump did think about things before he said them, although he may have acted as though he didn't. But Biden was perhaps tries trying to cover up more things, but there were physical problems that I see with by and I'm not medically trained, so I can't say exactly, but certainly he's an elder Man, but I think physically he has physical problems.
Unknown Speaker 25:05
Yeah. So can we do?
Nick VinZant 25:08
Can we do this real quick. So I sent a sample of my handwriting to you what kind of, broadly speaking, broadly speaking, I guess what kind of jumps out okay, now
Emma Bache 25:18
you've written you've chosen to write it online paper, which may say something about yourself anyway, I would normally say don't write online paper. However, the fact that you're you have very much stuck to the lines, and the fact that the letters are very much joined together, you like logic, you know, so it might be even quite difficult interviewing me, but you like logic in your life, and you like familiarity, you're very much a team player, you actually quite enjoy the routine thing. But the strokes are quite, it's quite heavy pressure. I mean, I know that I'm looking at the copy here. But I can tell it's quite heavy pressure. And, you know, there's a sense of duality to you, and you're very well balanced between the intellectual and the physical. And also the practical, you can get it maybe you like to think things through quite carefully. And so if you are suddenly presented with something, which is out of the blue, you might find it quite stressful. So you would find new situations quite stressful, stressful. And if you look at the page, you've got a much wider right hand margin than you have left. And if you think of that, going towards the right is the future and progression. And the left is what you know, in the past, you take, you know, you like to take your time with new people, new situations, and so anything other than that would take you a little bit more time than the average person to get used to it. You're very loyal, dependable.
Nick VinZant 26:52
I would say that that's pretty much all right on about my personality, is there any kind of like section of that, where you would say like, oh, looking at this specific part told me this or like,
Emma Bache 27:06
the letters themselves a very joined up. And most people have a combination of sort of printed and joined up cursive, whatever. And that's your it makes it much speedier writing, but that is to do with your logic and the fact that you're a team player, and you like routine, and there's a regularity to every aspect of your writing the size and the spacing, and, and the shape of the letters, which really makes you sort of conservative with a small c and liking, you know, enjoying routine, which isn't for everybody, it has to be said. And when I'm looking at the sweet zone is the opposite of the middle zone, the lower zone, and again, I would say look at the letter F, you know, it's all it's all very well balanced, which which makes you you know, balanced between the intellectual and the physical. And the fact that it is quite regular, you know, makes you a team player, rather than somebody who you know, needs to be on their own. And on that subject, if you look at the spacing between the actual words, it's sort of, it's not too wide, it's not too small, and it's very regular. So your sociability is quite normal, and you enjoy other people, but you don't, you don't feel a need to crowd them.
Nick VinZant 28:28
That is basically my personality.
Emma Bache 28:31
Well, it's a good one. I mean, you know, I wish I could say the same about myself,
Nick VinZant 28:34
is my is like my writing pretty normal.
Emma Bache 28:38
Oh, gosh, normal. I know what I do. Don't ask me what normal is. I've got no idea. I mean, I think you probably mean average, as opposed to normal. Look, when I'm looking at writing, I am looking for things that I'm looking for anomalies. I'm looking for things that scream out to me because they go against the norm of your writing or maybe against the norm of other people's writing. I would say there's nothing in your writing that would make me back off in any way. Okay, I can see. Riley is it? Okay, the if you look at the capitals, the L and the art, the art of Riley is a little bit more. Right with slanting than the L. Which might mean you're getting to the end of the page, though. And so you'd like speeding up you're right and speeding up. But it might be that you feel more communicative at that time towards laelia that you say is the the baby
Nick VinZant 29:40
of the family. Riley is the baby of the family. Yeah,
Emma Bache 29:43
but it's an interesting question that you ask because sometimes, and actually in my book, we talk about little individual things. Like I might say, you know, there might be a sentence that says like, you know, Peter likes J julienne Jennifer or something, and I'll say you have a who does he really like? Because the might be one of those names, which is much larger than the others or more of a right slot. And it's just like little funny little things like that you can see. And it's like some people might write their family name smaller or larger than that than they're given me. Which might mean that if they, if somebody was called Peter Jones, for instance, and Peter was very large and strong, and then the Jones was much lighter, and you could hardly read or maybe cross through, it might mean, I mean, it's not it's not a really big thing. And I probably wouldn't mention it. But it might mean that they have more of a problem with the family that they come from, as opposed to their personal self. That being or obviously, if you see somebody who's just got married, and they, you know, whether they're a man or woman they scraped through there, then you name it could be, you know, not a good sign.
Nick VinZant 31:09
So that's pretty much all the questions I got, I know that you've got a book out if people want to learn more, which the name young,
Emma Bache 31:15
why have a blinded reading between the lines, which is published by coworkers on your phones on Amazon. And it's really a book for everybody. It's a book for people aged eight to 100 Neat, and it's how to analyze your own handwriting. And it's how to look at your spouses or friends or relatives writing. And each chapter it gives a different personality trait to look at, and the slant and the spacing. And there's a chapter called red flags. So danger signs to look to look out for. And end of each chapter. There's a little exercise to do to see how much you've learned to think so although it's informative, it's also fun, and it's a great Christmas present. By the way,
Nick VinZant 32:01
I want to thank Emma so much for joining us if you want to connect with her, we have linked to her on our social media accounts were Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included her information in the episode description if you really want to learn more about this, her book Between the Lines is fascinating, especially the part about red flags. It's interesting because I think once you notice something about someone's handwriting, you really notice. Real quick, I want to take a second and thank one of the sponsors of our show in Cagni in cognitive mission is to help you take back control of your data privacy. We all know that data brokers and companies collect our personal information and then sell it and who knows where it goes in Cognis mission is to take your data back just as easily. Every year, identity theft seems to become a bigger and bigger problem, there has been a 68% increase in the number of data breaches in 2021 alone, and the likelihood of your data being stolen just keeps getting higher and higher. What incognito does is reach out to data brokers on your behalf requests that your personal data be removed, and then deals with any objections from their side. Going forward. What data brokers do is if you make a request, they'll remove it. But then they go back. Incognito keeps that from happening through three easy steps, create an account, grant them the right to work. And then they will contact data brokers on your behalf and request that your data be removed permanently. And right now in Cognito is available risk free for 30 days. Anybody can try it. And if you don't like it, you'll get a full refund. We even have a special discount available. All you have to do is go to incognito.com/profound and enter the code profoundly. And you can try in Cagni risk free for 30 days. We've also put a link in the description along with that promo code if you want to check it out. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of the show. Have you ever judged somebody by their handwriting? Like you saw their handwriting and thought oh,
John Shull 34:34
I think it's fair to say that I have. But on the other side of that I am one of those people that always gets complimented on my penmanship, which has always led me to believe that people must think that I cannot write well.
Nick VinZant 34:50
I do feel like there's a lot of compliments that people give you that maybe that they think that you're actually an idiot and I don't mean you but a lot of things that people will say it's like well did you think got was a moron.
John Shull 35:01
No, I mean, listen, I take it kind of personally, or at least I did. When somebody would, you know, stop in my office or wherever and say, You have really nice handwriting, but they always usually say that it's a gender identifiable. They're like, You have really nice handwriting for a man.
Nick VinZant 35:17
I don't actually now that I think about it, I don't really know any women that have bad handwriting. Every woman that I've ever known had good handwriting. I think because they think about things more than men do. Men are much more spontaneous. We're not going to think too far through something.
John Shull 35:37
If I really want to throw people off because I'm ambidextrous. All right, left handed, which is not as clean as my right hand.
Nick VinZant 35:45
Wait, you can write with both your right and left hand.
John Shull 35:48
Yeah, um, it's called ambidextrous.
Nick VinZant 35:52
Have you ever written two things at the same time, then? Can you write with both hands like that? That's called time saving there.
John Shull 36:00
I've actually never tried that. But I will get I will try it tomorrow. Not that it matters to anybody, but I will try it.
Nick VinZant 36:05
How can have you never tried it?
John Shull 36:09
I don't know. I just I've never thought hey, I'm gonna write down the same thing with the left and the right hand. I've never thought to do it,
Nick VinZant 36:15
you know, but you wouldn't have to you could make like, you could journal about your day on one hand and write a list of things you have to do tomorrow on the other. You read all those books about submarines? What good is it doing? You
John Shull 36:28
know what I had my top boss of my company last week?
Unknown Speaker 36:32
He's gonna get here we go. Here. We somehow
John Shull 36:36
somehow got onto the topic. He asked me if I if I was a reader. And I said, Yeah, I read quite a bit. He goes, Oh, what do you like? And that's spiraled downhill from there real fast. He is. I don't he was not like you. He was not impressed with my submarine. knowledge or the fact that I love submarine books.
Nick VinZant 36:57
You get one book per vehicle. One submarine book, one plane book. One car book. Can't be read that many books about cars. How quickly do you try to go through a grocery store though? Are you a linger? Are you like, Man, I know where it is. It's aisle 7/3. Shelf, I'm out of here.
John Shull 37:18
Well, this gives me a chance to to kind of avoid kudos. One of our probably within our first year of doing this podcast, you asked me a question. If like, how long do I spend eating dinner and I said, Oh an hour or whatever. I like to enjoy my meal. And you were like, you know, you, of course you jumped on me and you were like, and anyone out there that's listening. This will get this if you have children that are above newborn status. But it's like, once you have kids that start eating at the table with you, it's over. Like you just want to get in, get out and just move on with your day.
Nick VinZant 37:51
I don't like to eat around people. I eat by myself at the end of the day.
John Shull 37:56
I will I'm the same way it's actually become kind of a running joke in any shop I've ever worked at that. Oh, Sean's not going to eat today unless he goes into a closet somewhere and eats his lunch because I just I don't like eating in front of people. I just don't.
Nick VinZant 38:10
I agree. I don't like eating in front of people either. I like to eat at the end of the day, no matter what. Like, I don't care how late it is. Even when I work nights. I'm not eating dinner at six o'clock. Like I'm gonna wait until like, midnight when I get home to eat dinner. And I want to do it by myself.
John Shull 38:28
Yeah, I'm the same way. I'm the same exact way to wrap up that story. Moving fast forward now to today, John. I'm gonna tell you I just tried to get in and out. And if I if I don't have to take my kids, that's a bonus. Oh, I
Nick VinZant 38:42
don't think that I've ever spent more than not including waiting in line. Not including waiting in line. I don't think that I have honestly ever spent more than 15 minutes in a grocery store. Even if I'm shopping for like the week. not fucking around, man. Like, I know what I want is what I'm getting. Let's go.
John Shull 39:03
That's pretty fast. I tried to put it out an hour. That's my, that's my time limit.
Nick VinZant 39:07
You got to spend an hour in the grocery store.
John Shull 39:10
I mean, maybe maybe half an hour to an hour. I mean, if if I'm by myself, I'm gonna put a half an hour if I have the family with me, it's an hour.
Nick VinZant 39:19
See, I don't look around when I go to the grocery store though. Like, I'm not like shopping for things. I'm not changing my mind. Like, I need bread. All right, that one. I'm not like comparing nutritional labels and thinking looking at the ingredients and reading the thing if it's like, made by elves in the forest, and this one's made by whatever.
John Shull 39:40
I mean, I still appreciate a good supermarket. So I'll actually like pick different stores to go to and I do like looking around I do.
Nick VinZant 39:49
What food item are you going to kind of peruse. really check it out. Be like hey, for example, like I'm going to do chips and snacks like I'm going to look at E Different kinds of snack.
John Shull 40:02
I mean, I mean, the deli counter, that's always you have to take a look see what's in meats? You know, the meat counter?
Nick VinZant 40:11
Really, I don't go to those either of those.
John Shull 40:15
I mean, I mean, so what do you eat?
Nick VinZant 40:17
I don't go to any I don't go to any counters. I'm getting the stuff out of the like the the bins. Right? Like, I'm not going over there to talk to Steve the butcher. Do you know the butchers first name and the grocery store? Do you know a butcher by name?
Unknown Speaker 40:31
I do. Yes. How many?
John Shull 40:36
I mean, I know their names. It doesn't mean that we're like acquaintances. But I mean, I can name I can think of three names right now. At the same grocery store or different grocery stores. Same chain, but at separate stores.
Nick VinZant 40:49
Do you like do you walk up to you like, Hey, what are the names? Give me a name. I need a name for reference.
John Shull 40:54
Brian is probably the most common one. And he works. It's called Meijer, throw it out there at Meijer the one right by my house here in Michigan. And he knows kind of when I go grow. I go grocery shopping the same day every week.
Nick VinZant 41:10
Okay, and you're like, hey, but do you introduce do you come up to him? Does he come up to you? How does this work? Are you like, Hey, Brian.
John Shull 41:17
I mean, it's sometimes it's 5050. Some sometimes if he's in a good mood, he'll be like, Hey, John, what can I get you today? And then he'll, you know, he'll already know here. He knows what he wants. I don't have to tell him but
Nick VinZant 41:30
10 pounds of beef.
John Shull 41:33
No, no, that I get out of the bins. But you know, like, if I want like a different kind of steak or a piece of fish or something. You know, it's, yeah.
Nick VinZant 41:43
Maybe I'm antisocial. I don't talk to anyone. But I'm also of the opinion that no one wants to talk to me. And I consider it a mutual thing. You don't want to talk to me. I don't want to talk to you. Let's just go.
John Shull 41:55
I have learned as I've gotten older that I kind of put a mask on as I was younger, like I really am an introvert. Like, I don't really want to talk to people unless I want to talk to them. Yeah, I
Nick VinZant 42:08
think most people are probably like that. They don't want to talk to people unless they want to talk to people. I mean, even people who want to talk to people, though. Anyway. I was trying to go somewhere. I didn't feel like it was getting anywhere. Oh, you ready? Get started your ShoutOuts
John Shull 42:23
gonna give some shout outs and then after that I have a it's either gonna go up in flames or you're actually going going to enjoy the segment. Oh, is it new? Um, yeah, it's new for us. It's not new in general, but it's something new that we've never tried before. But I think okay, you're gonna you're gonna hate it, but we'll see. We'll see. Okay, so, so, anyways, it's not that exciting, but the nicey sell it, sell it. The subject itself, I think you'll hate but I'm curious to see if maybe you'll just play along. Anyways, let's give some shout outs here. We'll start with Sam Hogg. Two G's at the end of hogs. Yeah, I
Nick VinZant 43:02
thought so. I thought so. There's not You're not going to find a lot of people who are named after like an animal. Hog. Good. Good. I don't know anybody that's really named after animals. That has an animal last name. Do you know anybody that has an animal last name?
John Shull 43:21
I mean, just for the sake of not having dead air on the podcast, I'm going to say no.
Unknown Speaker 43:26
Give it a second. Like, like, I
John Shull 43:28
don't know anyone with the last name, but like, I feel like I should know a moose or something.
Nick VinZant 43:33
I don't know. I don't know anybody who has an animal last name and not and has to be a common animal. Not like I'm actually named after the lower reticulated arachnid spider.
John Shull 43:47
Sort of spider. Do we know a spider?
Nick VinZant 43:49
The only one that I could possibly think of is maybe somebody with the last name beaver.
Unknown Speaker 43:54
Or deer. But I can't think
Nick VinZant 43:57
of anybody who has an animal last name.
John Shull 44:00
There is a baseball player. His name was Rob deer. I know that
Nick VinZant 44:03
but spelled like, you know a deer is one of those words like sweat and sweet that I really get confused as to how you spell deer.
Unknown Speaker 44:11
D R.
John Shull 44:12
Yeah, it was D E R. T E R. So as dir Yeah, that's also weird to say. D E R.
Unknown Speaker 44:24
It just doesn't really make sense. Now I
Nick VinZant 44:26
can see an ar e like John Deere. Let's look this up people with animal last names. Is there anybody?
Unknown Speaker 44:37
Oh,
Nick VinZant 44:39
come on. Come on. We should have known this. There's a couple Tony Hawk.
Unknown Speaker 44:45
Michael Yeah. Michael J. Fox.
John Shull 44:51
Okay. Okay. Yeah, Tony. I mean, I don't think it's much bigger than them to
Nick VinZant 44:57
know bird. I don't count Bert Larry Bird
John Shull 45:02
Oh jesus yeah we suck it's actually a lot of
Nick VinZant 45:05
them it's one of those things you don't really like no Martin technically Martin anybody with last name Martin would be a Martin is a fox. Okay, we should say this we're not a top five that's a great one top five people with animal names
John Shull 45:21
Hey Thank you Sam OG for leading us down that five minute pass.
Nick VinZant 45:24
He doesn't count because he had an extra G trying to be fucking cool.
John Shull 45:27
Oh boy. All right, Coulter King. Liam Weatherall. John Scofield fantastic first name actually a new a Jimmy Scofield.
Unknown Speaker 45:38
Okay. Doesn't tell us all about it.
John Shull 45:40
Charlie Awana mocker. Devon Napoli, Molly Wilkinson. Brendan Murphy. Dylan Ray. And Edward. Hollis.
Nick VinZant 45:53
That is Dylan Murphy's name always have a burp at the front of it or was that just for that one
Unknown Speaker 45:57
specific.
John Shull 46:00
There get the sound
Nick VinZant 46:01
of a bird. A fart is funny, but I can't I hate the sound of a bird.
John Shull 46:09
I actually I don't mind either. I mean whatever. You know you do you write
Nick VinZant 46:13
only like a nasty like if you're drinking a nasty beer. And that's like swill beer and you get that giant Bert built up. It's like, oh, otherwise, I hate the sound of a bird. That's disgusting sound to me.
John Shull 46:26
If you ever burped while, like inhaling beer or a pop or something?
Unknown Speaker 46:31
No, I'm not a burper I don't think that I burnt more than three times a week.
John Shull 46:39
What are you as spitter? Swaller.
Nick VinZant 46:44
I just don't burp that much. I'm not a burping kind of guy. But are you a burger? Are you more of a burger or Florida?
John Shull 46:52
I mean, let's be honest. I'm both.
Nick VinZant 46:55
Yeah. So all kinds of gas cars. Every which way I
John Shull 47:00
got my armpits, my nostrils all orifices, happens.
Nick VinZant 47:05
No surprise. There's not more sounds that come out of your nose or your ears. Really? Right. Like if you think that's all that's going on in your body. You think that sounds are just coming out of any open area.
Unknown Speaker 47:15
Can you hear me blink?
Nick VinZant 47:18
If I blink right next to the microphone. Can you hear that?
John Shull 47:21
Oh, yeah, it sounds amazing. You can hear it. No, you can't hear it.
Nick VinZant 47:25
You blink next to the microphone. See if I can hear it. Try to I could hear something. Did you bump your face against it? No. Maybe you're a more powerful blinker than i Okay. Well, man, how does? How could anybody listen to this?
John Shull 47:44
I have no idea. But I guarantee you that whoever is still listening, this is like, Oh, can I hear myself?
Unknown Speaker 47:51
Right? It's a good question. I
John Shull 47:53
mean, we're not Award Nominated for no reason here.
Nick VinZant 47:57
Oh, that's right. I don't think we've told the people.
John Shull 48:00
I don't think we have either. You guys I feel I feel like you're a better presenter than me.
Nick VinZant 48:05
So we were nominated for best interview podcast. It's the second time we've been nominated for best interview podcast. We're gonna lose. We always lose. But we've been nominated.
John Shull 48:17
But I mean lesson we're up against. I mean, I mean, these are serious awards. Right? The signal awards. Yeah. You can still vote I think to the 14th. Their viewer voted upon. I mean, we're going up against John Stuart. I think Tina Fey's in there, Stephen Yun. Oh, so, human
Nick VinZant 48:37
Yan, Netflix person. We're up against like, well, Netflix.
John Shull 48:41
Well, he's actually Glenn from The Walking Dead. That's where people know him.
Nick VinZant 48:45
So they got some famous guy to host their thing. Yeah,
John Shull 48:49
but I used to want to finish last. That's all I just I just want to finish above one other podcasts that has 50 people working behind it. That probably makes six figures a year. And I just want to not finish last. The load
Nick VinZant 49:01
the most recently I checked is that we weren't in last place which is shocking to me. Julia, Julia Louie Dreyfus is on there. Right? Like, how could we ever beat those people? If I was them and saw us on that show? Last on the list? I'd be embarrassed. I'd be like who is these?
John Shull 49:22
Oh, is that why Jon Stewart took his podcast off there. That one
Nick VinZant 49:26
must be right. Like wouldn't you want to take it like oh, it's me. Oh, like imagine if you're a Kevin Hart like Kevin Hart. We're up against Kevin. Oh, yeah. Kevin Hart's on there. And it's like Kevin Hart. Jon Stewart. The guy that you just mentioned about The Walking Dead, the lady from Seinfeld and then like us.
John Shull 49:46
I mean, I I've stuck with this podcast for six years because you do great work fine. We do great work.
Nick VinZant 49:53
We do do. I mean it is like Well,
John Shull 49:55
wait. Oh yeah, it is five years isn't it at all It is yeah, well, well we're on our way to six so and you still look as handsome as that first episode that I couldn't see your face on? No. All right, so you're gonna hate this the more I think about this, this was a terrible idea, but it has this jump into it. And it goes along with the theme of our top five.
Nick VinZant 50:21
Okay, but now let me ask you this. Now this is a candle of the month episode, if I hate this completely and totally Are you willing to bet your candle of the month on it?
John Shull 50:31
To everybody else except you? Yes. Okay. Okay. I'm glad you I'm glad you remember those candle the month I have a special Blue Key candle. Anyways. Alright, so I everyone's aware of the Taylor Swift Travis Kelce. I don't know love story that you want to call it. So it got me thinking. We always talk about celebrity nicknames for couples? Do we actually do we actually know them?
Nick VinZant 51:02
Okay, you're gonna quiz me on Celebrity. This is one of the things in the universe that I care. Absolutely nothing about.
John Shull 51:08
I know. It's just what, which is why it's so amazing.
Nick VinZant 51:11
And I am personally of the opinion that this relationship and most celebrity relationships are completely fake. I don't think that they're real. I think that their public relations relationships. 100%, right. Especially like, oh, look, they got a new relationship. And they also got an album coming out. And they got a movie coming out, like, oh, how does that happen? I don't think most of them are real at all.
John Shull 51:37
Well, I'll tell you what, if you hate the first one, I'll go into my camera in the month but let's start here was probably the most famous one. Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore what were they called? For their near decade of dating each other
Speaker 4 51:52
Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore. I have no idea. Asked me.
Nick VinZant 52:00
Oh, that's not any good. Sound like Bennifer I remember that one. That one was good. Ash was not very good. I'm gonna give it a one out of five score as that's going to be a two.
John Shull 52:12
All right. How about this one? Speaking of Brad Pitt, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie,
Nick VinZant 52:18
oh, Brangelina. Everybody knows that. That's a five salon now.
John Shull 52:22
You're actually having more fun with us than I thought you would. So I'm going to keep rolling here. Kevin Federline, whom at one point in my life, I thought he was the luckiest man alive in Britney Spears.
Nick VinZant 52:35
Go I don't know, K fed. But that doesn't make any sense.
John Shull 52:39
That was his nickname, Federline.
Nick VinZant 52:41
Oh, that's terrible. That's a one. That's a one.
John Shull 52:45
If you haven't seen Britney Spears lately, by the way, and you're into celebrity gossip, she looks like somebody that needs some serious help.
Nick VinZant 52:53
Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's gotta be a tough life. Man. I feel bad for people who are really famous and then they kind of grow up in a world not knowing who they are. What's going on. I feel bad for people like that. Glad you make fun of them.
John Shull 53:07
I didn't say a word. I'm thinking about it. You're thinking about it. Well, not going out to dinner with her. I tell you that. Unless she's checked for knives. Anyways. Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes
Nick VinZant 53:22
I don't know. I don't know. I can't even
John Shull 53:24
think a lot of them. Probably the coolest dual nickname Tomcat.
Unknown Speaker 53:31
Oh, but that's
Nick VinZant 53:34
I both understand that. It's like okay, but that's like when you went to the most obvious place and you went such to an obvious place that it made it bad. I'm gonna give that a 1.5 because I hate it because I would never be like what's Tomcat doing?
John Shull 53:48
Okay, fine. The last one here. Taylor Swift. Encounter Kennedy.
Unknown Speaker 53:57
K Swift. Taco. That's okay. As a five.
Nick VinZant 54:05
Give that. Have you ever been legitimately interested in any celebrity gossip? Like you were actually interested in it?
John Shull 54:14
I mean, only in this the celebrity realms that interest me like no, not the pop stuff. Not the not the music, not the models, you know, wrestling sports. I mean, like last week, when they announced that they had arrested to pox killer. I mean, oh, yeah. I mean, that that's not gossip, because it actually happened. Right? But I mean, it's kind of become a circus since he was murdered, you know, searching for his killer and all that.
Nick VinZant 54:40
That's that's like 30 years ago, but did they get big? He's killer. Big he's
John Shull 54:46
killer. I think they're still looking for babies killer.
Unknown Speaker 54:50
That's kind of crazy.
Nick VinZant 54:51
I've always thought about when people like are killed when in regards to crimes. I've never understood how police can not solve it. And I've never understood how they can solve it. It's amazing to me both regards.
John Shull 55:03
I mean, I think it having been in the industry that you were in and that I'm still currently in when you talk to police officers, and detectives, some of them like they know sometimes who did it, but you just can't piece the evidence. Yeah. Right. And you and you have to prove it obviously in a court of law here in America. And yeah,
Unknown Speaker 55:24
okay. All right. Are you ready?
John Shull 55:26
I have by the way, I just want to say that did not go as terrible as I thought it would. So kudos to you for not railroading it from the get. Yeah, let's
Nick VinZant 55:32
just long as we never do it again. Fair enough. Is there any other ones that were really good? There's got to be another one. You didn't have benefactor? Who was benefiting as
John Shull 55:40
well because you already you said it. But it was Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez. I had Abra Levine and check Kroger. Which how in the hell did that ever happen? It
Nick VinZant 55:53
was in Chad Kroger
Unknown Speaker 55:54
and like a religious band.
John Shull 55:57
No, man, he was the lead singer of Nickelback.
Nick VinZant 56:00
Oh, I get him confused with a guy for creed.
John Shull 56:05
Creed also wasn't a religious band man.
Nick VinZant 56:11
Creed wasn't a religious banned. I think it was dude. Religious it's named creed
John Shull 56:17
to stop it. I'm gonna check Kroger and Avril Levine's nickname was Chevrolet. Or sure real?
Nick VinZant 56:23
Is creed, a real Christian band?
Unknown Speaker 56:27
Oh, he's pissed about it. Yeah, he's
Nick VinZant 56:30
pissed about it.
John Shull 56:31
That's some gossip that you probably fell for.
Unknown Speaker 56:33
Yeah, that's the very first
Nick VinZant 56:35
thing that he says that's like gonna be on his tombstone. Not a Christian band. Like, Well, dude, don't be making lyrics like that and have the name creed and then expect not right. Like, okay, if you're going to walk like a duck and talks like a duck Don't get mad when people call you a duck. And he's all pissed because people call him a
John Shull 56:53
duck. Anyway, okay. He's had a tough life to.
Nick VinZant 56:57
A lot of people have had tough lives. I don't ever want to hear okay, I'm gonna go on a rant. Now that you said this. I don't ever want to hear from any celebrity, whether they're an Actor, a Musician and athlete. Anybody talking about how they work so hard. It's easy to work damn hard when you're making a lot of money. What's tough is working hard and not making a lot of money. I don't ever want to see some celebrity talk about how hard they're working. Like there's a difference between hard work and hard work. Like hard work is having two kids making 50 grand a year.
Unknown Speaker 57:27
That's fucking hard work.
John Shull 57:29
paid for and brought to you by the Nick VinZant for 2024 campaign
Nick VinZant 57:33
said about this. I just hate that every time some celebrities like oh, it's just you know, we're all working so hard. It's pretty easy to work hard when you make 10 million a year. That's not hard work. There's a difference between working hard and hard work.
John Shull 57:46
I will never forget. And this is a 32nd story. months within the pandemic. Justin Timberlake was quoted as saying, I don't understand how all these parents do it being apparent 24 hours a day is tougher than tough. I
Nick VinZant 58:05
don't think like that's probably got to be some of the hardest stuff that anybody has to do is making between like 25 and 100 grand being a parent like That's hard work. I don't want to ever hear somebody like oh it's such hard work on this movie said we got paid 20 million so shut the fuck up.
John Shull 58:21
Can we get my last show going because I gotta cancel the month to get
Nick VinZant 58:25
to the horses first
Speaker 4 58:27
to know now I could do it again. There wasn't a whole lot to it
Nick VinZant 58:40
I think my heart Let me try let me try it's time the outlaw candle connoisseur Rides Again.
Unknown Speaker 58:53
candle of the month.
John Shull 58:56
Here we go. It's a very spooky candle. I don't know what I was trying to do there.
Nick VinZant 59:02
I don't know how did you go Hispanic, he went Hispanic in the middle of that.
John Shull 59:09
Anyways, head over to the magic Candle Company. I think I've talked about these folks before they do a lot of themed candles all varying praises. One thing I really like before I get to the scent that I'm going to say for candle a month is you can usually get most of their candles in small large and get rooms braids you get wax melts. Oils, so you just don't have to get candles but regardless my candle the month this month with a being October pumpkin king by the magic Candle Company and one thing that this candle has that I've always wanted to find in a candle that I have not been able to find till now is a pumpkin candle that smells like pumpkin puree
Nick VinZant 1:00:00
What are most other pumpkin candles smell like?
John Shull 1:00:02
That can be a little dry like It's like this is like having somebody just rub pumpkin puree over your body over and over and over again.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:11
Is that good?
John Shull 1:00:14
I mean hey, well, I actually getting down
Unknown Speaker 1:00:17
at the house Jeff. Anyways.
John Shull 1:00:21
Check them out magic candle company.com I think they are an online store only. But they have all kinds of deals, especially with the holiday coming up and Thanksgiving after that. And they have a lot of they've I don't know if they've actually purchased the rights to be able to sell some of these candles, but they have like Stranger Things line they have like Hocus Pocus, some of the horror movie franchises but you know, to me, nothing is better than good old pumpkin puree and a candle.
Nick VinZant 1:00:52
What is a horror movie candle
Unknown Speaker 1:00:54
smell like?
John Shull 1:00:55
What you know, like like, I actually don't know if they have it this year, but I know last year, they have like a Jason Vorhees scent, which was like piney and Woody, because you know, that's where the first Friday the 13th
Nick VinZant 1:01:07
Ah, so I didn't know his theme candles. Is that a big business?
John Shull 1:01:13
Yeah, of course. I mean, themed anything, right? I mean, that's how Etsy that's how Etsy shops make all their money, I think is because they illegally make products with certain bicolor likenesses on them. And, you know, that's, that's, that's it.
Nick VinZant 1:01:26
I really don't understand how you can burn that many candles in your nose like still works all the time. Like, I would think that you it'd be like listening to music that allowed volume all the time. And I would just I would think that you'd be deaf. The smell of death.
John Shull 1:01:41
I mean, to be fair, you know, when when when I when I got COVID That really did a number on my senses. But one thing it seemed not to touch after a while. That was the first time I've had it, by the way, which was the worst was my smell. It came back after like, a month. And now I have like Spidey smell.
Nick VinZant 1:02:02
What did you do without being able to smell? What did the candle kind of sewer do? Because they've been stripped of your superpowers. What do you have? Because I don't buy
John Shull 1:02:10
did you still think I messed up? I don't think I missed a podcast during all that.
Nick VinZant 1:02:15
Oh, so you just made up candle of the month so you just lied to the people? No,
John Shull 1:02:20
this was two plus years ago. I don't think I was doing candle the month two plus years ago.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:25
Huh? Busted.
John Shull 1:02:28
Okay, yeah, yes, this has been a fabrication since day one.
Nick VinZant 1:02:32
It's all a lie. The main thing about candles? Um, are you okay? Are you ready for our top five?
John Shull 1:02:40
I am and I know you hate it. You do not let you you are not into this, but I think it's going to be a good one.
Nick VinZant 1:02:45
Okay, so our number five is top five tailors. But we're breaking our rule. And then it can be tailor or the first name or the last name.
John Shull 1:02:55
Which I always thought you could anyways, I didn't
Nick VinZant 1:02:57
realize you've gotten mad at me before because I did the last name. Probably because
John Shull 1:03:02
you were talking shit about something I picked or something. Right.
Nick VinZant 1:03:06
Right. I also I always like those kinds of rules, the ones that only apply to this specific set of circumstances that I'm okay with at that time.
John Shull 1:03:13
Yeah, I mean, come on, man. Okay, it's what we're doing here. All right. All right. My number five, you got to put her on the list. And that's Elizabeth Taylor.
Nick VinZant 1:03:22
You have her at number five.
John Shull 1:03:24
I do. I'm telling you. I think there's a lot of tailors out there that you're not thinking of.
Nick VinZant 1:03:31
I have her higher on the list for a reason that I'll explain later, but I have her higher. I think that five is obviously too low. My number five is honestly the guy that I would say is kind of symbolic of a lot of tailors. He's somebody that you've heard of, but you're not sure exactly which one that one is. It's Taylor Lautner The Wolverine from Twilight. Or the Wolfman, werewolf,
John Shull 1:03:57
Michigan zone Taylor Lautner. Oh god. I actually don't have him on my list.
Nick VinZant 1:04:05
Even though it's Michigan zone, you're gonna make a big deal about his Michigan zone and then be like, Nah, we don't he's not that gris.
John Shull 1:04:12
So we've had we've done less like this what name is a four and we've had, you know, six singular movie or franchise actors on there, or actresses, but other than that, I don't know what he's done. Other than Twilight.
Nick VinZant 1:04:25
I think he's done a couple of things, but nothing that was ever anything like that, but a lot of people really struggle with that. I think there's a lot of people whenever you talk about any kind of franchise whether it's a movie or a TV show, it's really hard to do multiple things I think that you kind of get synonymous with that and then nobody wants to touch you.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:45
Like this podcast Yeah. Never for
John Shull 1:04:51
man see, so this is where it gets extremely tough man. I mean, it is. You are splitting hairs with tailors after after really? I In the top five. So my number four, I'm gonna put James Taylor on the list at number four.
Nick VinZant 1:05:05
That's who I have to I have James Taylor at number four. One of the, like a happy songwriter. All of his songs are happy songs.
John Shull 1:05:13
To me, not a whole lot different in terms of what he contributed to the music industry than say, like a Jimmy Buffett. They're both well known for some of their anthems. They've been around forever. I mean, obviously, Buffett, he, you know, did all the things in the Caribbean but very similar ask artists to me, but you have to you have to put James Taylor on the list.
Nick VinZant 1:05:34
But Jimmy Buffett is more famous than James Taylor.
John Shull 1:05:38
I yeah, I would agree with that.
Nick VinZant 1:05:39
Yeah, his songs at least, but they were both kind of that same musical style of like, didn't weren't really writing about hard times. They were writing about having a good time. James Taylor was like a musical, Mr. Rogers.
John Shull 1:05:53
Oh, my God. Alright, my number three, I actually have two people at my number three. Okay. And that's going to be Roger Taylor and Taylor Hawkins. Both drummers, one from Queen and one of the Foo Fighters.
Speaker 5 1:06:07
Also both people who I don't know who they are. Okay. Well, it sounds like you. I don't know
Nick VinZant 1:06:14
who Roger Taylor or Taylor Hawkins is?
John Shull 1:06:18
Well learn about the Foo Fighters or, or queen then I guess,
Nick VinZant 1:06:23
queen, I'm going to look up Roger Taylor. I actually thought Roger Taylor was a bond guy. I mean,
John Shull 1:06:30
you should at least know who Taylor Hawkins was.
Nick VinZant 1:06:33
Don't come to me with drummers, man. Come on. Now. There's very, you very, very rarely, very rarely, no more than two people in a band. It's a big deal if you know more than one really.
John Shull 1:06:49
Sure, but I also think that like these weren't normal musicians like these are these these are legends of music.
Nick VinZant 1:06:57
I don't think I'm gonna put Taylor Hawkins is a legend of music. Not somebody that I would know who they were Foo Fighters. I only know Dave Grohl. Okay, how about this? How many people can you name in a band? And I'll go through the list. Guns and Roses.
John Shull 1:07:14
slash Axl.
I mean, those who are those or anyone else in the band,
Nick VinZant 1:07:20
I think Duff but that might have been another band. You to.
John Shull 1:07:27
Oh, I mean, obviously, I'm not a big YouTube fan. But bonobo and the guy with the weird sunglasses and the soul patch.
Nick VinZant 1:07:37
I think his name is the edge. I could you imagine introducing yourself as the edge? Like no, no, it's not even a nickname. It's just I'm the edge. Like
John Shull 1:07:49
at the that sphere in Las Vegas. That thing looks pretty dope. I
Nick VinZant 1:07:52
think looks pretty sweet way to see a concert. Yeah, that looks like a good but okay. Would you agree with my sentiment that that's like, there's very few bands that you know to people very, very rare. Well, you're gonna know three of them.
John Shull 1:08:06
Yeah, I don't disagree with you. But that's not really the argument here. The argument is Roger Taylor and Taylor Hawkins. They are legends of music.
Nick VinZant 1:08:16
No, yeah. And you know, they did all that stuff.
John Shull 1:08:19
With What's your net worth was just stopped back
Nick VinZant 1:08:22
on who is it's collaborated with? What's its face?
John Shull 1:08:26
What's your number three
Nick VinZant 1:08:27
Lawrence Taylor. Number 56. For the New York Giants. Okay, so
John Shull 1:08:32
that he's my number two. Okay, strictly because he changed the game of professional football American professional football forever. He is. He's a top 10 player ever, in my opinion.
Nick VinZant 1:08:46
Yeah, I've heard he's a really good player. I know. He also did a lot of cutting drugs, a
John Shull 1:08:50
lot of drugs, a lot of drugs.
Nick VinZant 1:08:54
He's kind of just leading up to my overall argument for my number one, but that's so now I think I know who your number one is going to be. But who's your number two?
John Shull 1:09:02
He was my number two.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:04
Oh, my number two is Taylor Swift.
John Shull 1:09:09
That's my number one.
Nick VinZant 1:09:11
I I would agree with you if you took pulse of the moment. Taylor Swift is the most famous Taylor by a long margin. I think that she is levels above. Lawrence Taylor, James Taylor, the two guys from a bands that you talked about miles above Taylor Lautner. But my number one is Elizabeth Taylor. Because I think that people who were really famous in the past, were levels above fame that we have now. Because there wasn't like 50 movies or a whole bunch of songs. Like there's only a couple of things. So whatever came out like you were really famous.
John Shull 1:09:50
I don't disagree with that. I do think in 50 years, 100 years, though, when we look back on, you know, like the Beyonce is a Taylor Swift to the world. are of the generation I mean that they're gonna be remembered like as as an Elizabeth Taylor. I don't know the criteria you're judging them on is correct, but it's fine. It's, you know,
Nick VinZant 1:10:14
I mostly just refused to put Taylor Swift is number one.
John Shull 1:10:17
I know you do use Swifty
Nick VinZant 1:10:19
I don't understand that have you ever been really into like a celebrity?
John Shull 1:10:25
Not not where I would like to classify myself as a you know, as a nickname now friends will tell you that I was in love with Tom Brady at one point in my life, which is probably true. Yeah. But I'm I'm also going to say that that was just me being an immature, early 20 something old. But that's probably it. I mean, wrestle. I mean, wrestlers the rock stone cold. Sure, but like, you know, I would never paint my fate. Well, I mean, maybe I would paint my face, but it doesn't matter. So I guess maybe, maybe,
Nick VinZant 1:11:00
huh? Do you have anything in your honorable mention?
John Shull 1:11:03
Not really. I mean, I put Taylor Kish in there. Friday Night Lights, several of these. He was also in that that terrible Disney movie that bombed out the Prince of Persia or whatever it was Prince or John Hart or something to Mars? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. John Korea, it doesn't matter. But no, that's kind of it. Yeah, I
Nick VinZant 1:11:25
don't have anybody. I think there's a president, Zachary Taylor. The other one that I noticed is the game who was a rapper, but his real name is Taylor.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:35
So Oh, okay. Yeah, I would put the game
Nick VinZant 1:11:38
on there. I would actually put the game above Taylor Lautner. If and if I could get away
John Shull 1:11:42
with it? Sure, well, we'll allow it the game's big
Nick VinZant 1:11:47
deal. Ah, okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless, I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. Doesn't have to be anything big. Just a couple of quick words really helps us out. And we've also put a link in the description. If you want to vote for us for the signal awards, we would really appreciate it our goal is just not to get last place. We just don't want to be completely last. And let us know what you think or who you think rather, is the number one most famous Taylor. I do believe that people in the past were more famous because there simply just wasn't that many people. There wasn't as many options. But it's probably Taylor Swift. It really probably is. Although I think this is my personal opinion. I think that the era of this celebrity is coming to an end. Because we're all kind of sick of this, because it's inescapable in a lot of ways. And I would not be surprised if the Taylor Swift Travis Kelce relationship is what finally pushes us over the edge.