Vampires, Werewolves, Zombies, Manananggals, Monster Scholar Dr. Emily Zarka studies them all. We talk monster origins, how monster stories have influenced society and which monsters might be real. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Worst Halloween Candies to Get.
Dr. Emily Zarka: 01:14
Pointless: 23:30
Top 5 Worst Candies: 38:26
Interview with Monster Expert Dr. Emily Zarka
Nick VinZant 0:12
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode monsters, and bad candy,
Dr. Emily Zarka 0:21
I think we're all scared of something. And I think that trying to recognize why we're afraid of what we're afraid of tells us more about one another. Because that's an example of where belief in a particular monster, like a werewolf, or where hyena did actually lead to real human deaths. The zombie is very much I hate to say alive, but alive and well in those spiritual traditions. And that that is still something that happens to this day.
Nick VinZant 0:48
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So our first guest studies monsters. This is Monster scholar, Dr. Emily Zarqa. What do you think captivates us about monsters?
Dr. Emily Zarka 1:17
I think that monsters are all about storytelling. I think that we do storytelling for entertainment purposes, but also to educate one another and to build community. So for me scary stories at their root are about the power of imagination and a desire to share information. I think we're all scared of something. And I think that trying to recognize why we're afraid of what we're afraid of tells us more about one another. Sometimes these connections, unfortunately, can lead to some pretty real and terrifying results like discrimination or even death. And I think that's because monsters provide convenient scapegoats a lot of the time for negative human behavior. And I mean that not just because not just the people who are being accused of being monsters or monstrous, but people making that those accusations, I like to say a lot of the time, the monster is more about the person pointing the finger at the monster and calling them evil or bad than it is about the monster itself.
Nick VinZant 2:15
Did people ever think that any of these are real?
Dr. Emily Zarka 2:19
Absolutely. There are monsters out there that some people still believe are real, you could get into a whole conversation about cryptids. But historically, when vcare so collections of illustrations and like short descriptions of different kinds of creatures across the world, we would see in those volumes, stuff we would recognize today, like horses and cows. And then we'd also see some things that today we know to maybe not be true, like dragons, or even the bass Liske. So there was a large period of human history, I would say that people thought a lot of these monsters were real. And part of that wasn't just because they were there's a stereotype those people were like, uneducated, in some capacity. And I think that that's doing them a disservice. I think that the world was a lot smaller, before more people could communicate at the speed in which we could communicate. So when you don't have this rapid sharing of information, and you hear a story from someone across the world that like a crack and sunk their ship, it seems believable enough, like maybe you see peace, the survivors telling you that, who's to say that you shouldn't believe them.
Nick VinZant 3:23
When you talk about like monsters, right? Like who are kind of the big ones, the ones that really stand out to you.
Dr. Emily Zarka 3:30
The ones that stood out to me just because they're one of my personal favorites are the undead of any kind. I like to say that in every culture that fairies, they're dead, there are some kind of reanimated corpse monster, I think because of course, what happens after death is a mystery. And that we like to again, fill in the blanks of our imagination and try to make sense of the world around us by telling stories and monsters are part of that story. So vampires would be the obvious example. But I'm also really intrigued by where people so where tigers were hyenas werewolves, not only because of how ubiquitous they are across the globe, because that's an example of where belief in a particular monster, like a werewolf, or where hyena did actually lead to real human deaths, which is tragic and interesting in a lot of ways. And I like to think that by studying those stories, and those, you know, real werewolf trials, for instance, that we can hopefully become better people by trying to avoid those same mistakes in the future
Nick VinZant 4:29
when you look at kind of the monsters that have existed and I think of like vampires, Frankenstein, the mummy, etc, etc. Is there one, one or ones that kind of stand out to us, like people have had kind of the harshest, real life reaction to this,
Dr. Emily Zarka 4:43
I think werewolves again, and where people accusations and witchcraft accusations and places they're still today in the world where those accusations of malevolent sorcery can lead to like imprisonment or death, which is terrifying. So famously in the 16th and 17th centuries in your are up, there's what scholars like to call the werewolf trials, where various real individuals were being accused of shape shifting into vaults. And they were actually put on trial for that. And you might hear these hugely exaggerated numbers of you know, 10s of 1000s of people that happened to and that's not really true. The best gas is a couple of 100. But that still people who were directly accused of being a wearable who actually died, and were found guilty of that accusation, which is, you know, impossible. So I think that it's interesting to consider that especially because a lot of the time, again, with wearables, as an example, you would be accused of being a werewolf in, you know, medieval Europe, not just for shapeshifting into a wolf, but for engaging in other deviant behavior, like serial murder, or cannibalism. Those people would also be accused of werewolves, and we see something similar but different, actually, in Africa. So there's a concept of the where hyena, and some parts of Sudan, Tanzania, Ethiopia, and parts of Morocco, where we can actually connect the accusation of hyenas shape shifting into humans. So the human skins the false one, which is really interesting to actual, like, discrimination and death of the Ethiopian Jews or the betta Israel. We can like kind of clearly trace the xenophobia happening in those places. And that led again to very real life consequences.
Nick VinZant 6:27
Most of our audience is kind of in the United Kingdom and in the United States In the United States. Are there places where you say when the in the United States like oh, this is always, for some reason, really stood out in Britain or the United States, where it hasn't like stood out in other places.
Dr. Emily Zarka 6:45
Britain is really interesting, particularly in England, I keep talking about werewolves, I'm sorry. But um, werewolves legends didn't really exist in England after a period of time because famously, The King ordered for all wolves to be killed in England. So when you don't have the wolf, it's really hard to you know, make the werewolf story. I think here in the US though, the big ones that come up are Bigfoot or Sasquatch, which people will swear up and down that it is real. And I'm not here to dismiss their experiences with that. And then I would say also the chupacabras, which originated in Puerto Rico, but now is more tied, I would say to like the south, west and Mexico in particular,
Nick VinZant 7:26
real kind of quickly, if we look at it, could you kind of sum up the history and what this monster has meant? I know that's kind of a big thing. But vampire vampires.
Dr. Emily Zarka 7:39
So vampires is such a broad category. If we're talking about sort of the Eastern European vampire. That is where a lot of what, at least in the Western world, we would conceptualize as like vampires today. So potentially shape shifting, you know, with things blood sucking can only walk around in the daytime, those things actually date to again, Eastern European folklore, legends that started being recorded around the 1700s. And what I think a lot of people forget about vampires is that these creatures get a reanimated corpse that somehow preys on the lifeforce of a human has been around for 1000s and 1000s of years, if not millennia, which is crazy to think about. But what we recognize today as a vampire, really only started when, alongside literature and the printing industry, where people started going around to these small communities and taking these legends and writing them down. And then those books would then be distributed, and even translated and distributed. And we see the vampire really come into the like Byronic anti hero or demon lover trope in the 19th century, along with the rise of Gothic literature for one thing, and then of course, vampires look really cool on film. So we have some early vampire movies pop up in the 20th century, as well. And I hate to say it cuz it's a cliche, but the vampire never dies. We've basically consistently seen some kind of vampire fiction for hundreds of years now, and I don't think that's happening anytime soon. In terms of what it means, I think it means different things depending on the characteristics of the vampire, including things like gender, and race and age of the vampires, for sure. But for me, vampires are about consumption and corruption. Unlike many other monsters, there's, you know, at least in European folklore, the idea that a vampire can turn a living human, into a vampire as well. And I think that this idea that we're all you know, one bite and one heartbeat away from turning into a monster can be both terrifying, but also exciting. I think for some people, there's a form of escapism, I think and imagining ourselves as monsters, or at least open to that. And while I think core as a whole is cathartic, not just it's not just To scare people in my opinion, I do think that we like to be entertained. And vampires look more like us, I think than some of the other monsters out there. So it's easier for us to transcribe meaning onto them.
Nick VinZant 10:11
They seem to be the only one that sexualized.
Dr. Emily Zarka 10:13
Yes and no, I mean, there's some weird stuff out there.
Nick VinZant 10:17
Particularly in general, there's always somebody, and if that's your thing, that's your thing. But in general, they seem to be the one like, why is that just because they like, oh, you know, like, that kind of looks like us? Or is it something about the vampire that seems to
Dr. Emily Zarka 10:32
I think that's part of it. What's actually interesting is before the vampire is like lovers sort of emerges. The werewolf is lover was actually something that's fallen by the wayside, which is interesting. But again, I think we can attribute this to the 19th century, to this idea that Gothic literature really solidified the character of you know, the brooding, handsome or beautiful but reclusive, seductive sort of monster character is that singular figure, and vampires can enter into homes very easily. So that I think is, again, easy to write into something. I do think that vampires as sexy they also is because of how vampires prey. It's about the age reach of your show is but it's incredibly phallic. There's this idea of penetration that's happening, even if that's just from a bite mark. And again, I think there's a lot of instances of you know, biting on the neck or the chest in the heart. And so when you already know things might be happening in like bedrooms, or more private enclosed spaces. So when you have penetration happening, and you know, a private space, I think that it's really easy to turn that into a sexual narrative.
Nick VinZant 11:44
That's why you take one step, it's not hard to get to, um, Frankenstein.
Dr. Emily Zarka 11:49
The question when I teach Frankenstein to always emerges is who's the real monster in Frankenstein? Because the idea of Dr. Frankenstein and I'm putting on an air quotes because it Mary Shelley's original text, he's not actually a physician, or even a philosopher, he dropped out of college. Fun fact, he's more of a natural philosopher, or what we recognize as a scientist. I think so is it Frankenstein? Who's the monster? Or is it his creation? The creature? Who's the monster and I think that that's a really one of the reasons that Mary Shelley's creation has been so endearing is that it's easy to cast both creator and creation as monstrous. And I think, again, that's another allegory, we can put on too many different things and questions about science, creating things that we don't understand or art for art's sake, what is beautiful, how should we be treating our creations? I think those are really interesting as well. But of course, Mary Shelley paved the way for science fiction. And I think that science fiction has always been very futuristically speculative. There are instances in science fiction that people like to say have predicted, like real things and real technologies that actually happen. So I think that for Frankenstein, we see revivals of Frankenstein, Frankenstein's creature repeatedly since that original publication and I think again, that's because it's as technology keeps advancing. So the Frankenstein and Frankenstein's creatures a really easy way to talk about potentially the dangers of technology and things like religion and procreation in lots of different ways. My favorite example though of Frankenstein, and Frankenstein's creature, actually comes from the show Penny Dreadful. I don't know if you've ever seen that I
Nick VinZant 13:37
just I can't watch anything scary like if it's above animation It's too scary for me.
Dr. Emily Zarka 13:42
I definitely spooky and scary but obviously coming from a completely different mindset. But there's Frankenstein is portrayed in that film, I think really accurate accurately to Shelley's original character and I think personally, it's the most accurate representation of the creature both in appearance and in personality. We have the black hair the yellow eyes, the black lips but Taliban is the name of what the creature names itself in the show is also incredibly sensitive and kind really just find a bind trying to find connection in the world. And when that backfires that's when he sort of really goes on his rampage and you know, swears to destroy everything that Frankenstein cares about, which is essentially the true novel not you know, the lumbering bolts in the neck kind of Frankenstein. So I'm partial. If anyone's a fan of Frankenstein, and Frankenstein's creature out there, I'd say definitely check out the Penny Dreadful series, or at least just those episodes.
Nick VinZant 14:35
Is there a main zombie or zombies has always just been a plural thing?
Dr. Emily Zarka 14:40
Oh, um, zombie has always been plural in the sense that zombies do MB I have actually emerges we can connect that monster directly to the transatlantic slave trade. There were some older spiritual practices in parts of Africa, about sort of Soul stealing or soul control. But it's the zombie is a concept solidified in Haiti during the slave trade there as both a way for people to find community for desperate individuals who would come all different backgrounds to sort of have the religion of voting to fall back on. But also zombie was considered a betrayal in the sense that if you were already enslaved bodily in life, what's the worst thing someone in your own community could do to you would be to enslave you after death. So when majority of the enslaved peoples population was moved to the US, that's when we see the zero NBI become the zombie with the E at the end that we more recognized today. So I think that zombies have always had the potential to be plural. Because the idea of how you create a zombie is a malevolent sorcerer, or magical practitioner, excuse me spiritual practitioner called a bow Corp, who takes control over the soul in the body. And I had the privilege of being able to talk to some real voodoo and voodoo priests and priestesses when I was filming the documentary exhumed history of zombies for PBS. And I was informed by those individuals that the zeal The zombie is very much of hate to say alive, but alive and well in those spiritual traditions. And that that is still something that happens to this day. So do you have the you know, resurrected running around cannibalism, zombie in those traditions? No, definitely not least my understanding. But I think zombies as a whole is a really interesting way of tracing modernity, not just looking back to the transatlantic slave trade, but if we see the zombie emerge from the Haitian zombie to the Romero zombie, to something maybe like the pandemic zombie and the what I was calling the hive zombie. As more and more people start to be present on the earth, we see the zombie number go up like extremely if you've seen a zombie movie in the last like 20 years, you can see this difference, right? You maybe have a couple 100 Or like a swarm become a couple 1000. And then I always think of something like World War Z, where you have what appears to be millions of zombies, just swarming. And I think again, overpopulation is something that we can sort of attribute that increase to
Nick VinZant 17:19
most overrated monster most underrated monster.
Dr. Emily Zarka 17:26
Oh, that's hard, like from a specific text or just in general,
Nick VinZant 17:29
I would say just in general, what you think would be like, Oh, that one's underrated. This one's kind of overrated like enough with that one already.
Dr. Emily Zarka 17:36
I don't think we see that much of them now, but I don't personally think like Cyclops or gargoyles are not cool. They just don't like really do it for me. I do think Yeti is a little overrated only because the original yetis were not actually supposed to be malevolent, or like bad or dangerous in any way. Underrated monster, the first thing that pops into my head. I think this would be a weird one. I think the Monongahela is underrated. It's a Filipino self segmenting vampiric monster that I'm obsessed with her. I think that they're absolutely crazy. I also think that some of the more modern monsters are a little underrated. And I think that that's because we haven't really explored their full stories yet has been about creation and been around long enough. So something like Slenderman or siren head, which largely emerged in you know, smaller online communities and then became part of larger pop culture texts really fascinate me. And I think modern folklore in general is underrated because this is an unprecedented time for folklorist. Whereas before, you know, we might have an idea of, well, the first time this monster appears in print, like maybe, maybe we can find that text. But the way folklore happens, and Monster stories happen organically and verbally between individuals, it's really hard to pinpoint like, this is exactly the period of time in which this monster originated. But that's different today, because we have timestamps on the internet. So we know not only the exact year that like Slenderman was invented, but literally the day and the time. And I just think that's so cool. I guess as just a history nerd, and someone who's a monster scholar has really been able to pinpoint or even locate the people who created these monsters. And I just, I think monsters are just super cool. And I think it's really I'm curious to see where they go in the future.
Nick VinZant 19:29
Why do you think that that is, though, because in my mind, right, like we had all these creations in the 1800s or whatever, right? Like Dracula, Frankenstein, all that and then there was nothing until like Slenderman Why do you think that is the seems like there's huge gap between where somebody like myself would be like, Oh, that's a new one.
Dr. Emily Zarka 19:48
I think we still see some trends. Like there was a big like the kaiju trend in the mid 20th century long, like the big bugs kind of situation. So I do think there have been a few smaller ones, but part of Why I think those at the 19 century monsters were so popular and they're so ubiquitous today is because after many of those original stories took off, there were also like stage adaptations, or operas or art and, you know, sequels created. And some of again, the first horror films involved those monsters. So I think that not only were they working with some really strong, original characters, but it was stuff that people had not just read about, but they had maybe seen, like an illustration of or seen on stage. And I think that that's easier again, to keep alive in the imagination. Whereas if you think of something like Slenderman, yes, there have been a couple, you know, movies, some better than others, but they don't have that longevity, at least yet. And I think that it, I'm curious to see what sticks around, you know, 1020 years from now, I just did an episode from Austin, about the SCP Foundation, I can see that one growing quite a bit, because it's a lot about government conspiracy, and you know, hidden knowledge. And some things are maybe supernatural, or natural things are real, maybe some art, maybe they can be contained. And I think that as misinformation continues to be an issue in our world in a lot of ways that we might see arise, and that kind of secret society type organization,
Nick VinZant 21:17
is there any trend in the sense where like back then, so to speak? These used to be things that people like, oh, maybe that's real. Like, now the one seemed like, There's no way that's real. Has that changed? Or have I just made that up?
Dr. Emily Zarka 21:31
I think there's always been skeptics, and there's always been believers. And I don't see that changing anytime soon. I mean, you could, I've done this right where pointed out like, hey, the DNA testing of this, you know, example of Yeti fur has been proven to be this type of bear. And there are still people who will swear up and down that that's just one sample or that, you know, that's just a lie, someone's telling. And that's been around for forever. Again, going back to those witchcraft or werewolf accusations. I'm sure there were people rolling their eyes are adamantly saying like, of course, this person isn't, you know, practicing a level of magic. But there are people who definitely believe so I just again, think that as we become more technologically advanced, and as communication spreads more rapidly, and things like science evolved, that maybe it's easier to dismiss certain things than it was in the past. But I do still think that there are people out there who want to believe that monsters are real. And I think that's a really interesting question.
Nick VinZant 22:22
That's pretty much all the questions that we have what's kind of coming up next for you? How can people learn more that kind of stuff? Yeah.
Dr. Emily Zarka 22:28
If you want to learn more about me, you can of course, go to my website, Dr. Emily sarker.com. I try to date it a lot of the time, but you can always contact me there and find some my current projects I'm working on. I should be appearing in. I almost just dropped into multiple syllabi. You might be hearing me on some other streaming platforms in audio format soon, which I'm excited about. And hopefully we can speak more of but Monstrum just wrapped filming for our fifth season, and we are definitely going to be making more. So definitely go to the story YouTube page to find the latest videos from Ostrom.
Nick VinZant 23:03
I want to thank Dr. Zarca so much for joining us if you want to connect with her, we have linked to her on our social media platforms. We're Profoundly Pointless on tik, Tok, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included her information in the episode description. If you want to see more of this interview, the YouTube version of it will be live on October 26 at 4:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of the show. Okay, if you had a choice between being like a vampire, Frankenstein, mummy, werewolf, that kind of thing.
John Shull 23:46
Which one would you be? I feel like I would want to be a vampire first. Yeah, yeah. And then a werewolf.
Nick VinZant 23:57
I could potentially be convinced to be a werewolf instead of a vampire. But I think that I would be a vampire first.
John Shull 24:07
I just feel how the media has portrayed all of these creatures. That vampire is always seem to at least live the best lives to begin
Nick VinZant 24:16
being a vampire doesn't have a huge downside to it. Right? Like, Oh, can't go out at night, or can't go out during the day. It's not that big of a deal anymore. Right? Like, I mean, we did that. So I feel like Vampire has the least downside. Well, who would you least want to be though?
John Shull 24:35
I mean, out of the generic Halloween monsters. I mean, probably a zombie Frankenstein. Something that's kind of dead already. That just doesn't seem appealing to me.
Nick VinZant 24:48
I feel like last on my list would be Frankenstein. Because Frankenstein is basically like a zombie but he's still mentally there. At least a zombie. I don't think that you have any kind of mental capacity. A day like you're not really like Frankenstein, you know, you're a monster and you know, like you're never going to fit in. I feel like Frankenstein would struggle with the world more than the zombies would they just don't care.
John Shull 25:13
And then you think about werewolves what I really want to be a werewolf. I mean, you're gonna, you're gonna have to buy new clothes all the time, because you're just gonna be ripping out of the, you know, the current ones when you're a human.
Nick VinZant 25:24
That's always the big concern. That's what I never understood about some superheroes is like, you got to carry a change of clothes with you everywhere.
John Shull 25:33
I mean, maybe being a ghost would probably be my number two, but even that was it's just, you can't live uh, you know, you can't live a normal, great life because you're a ghost.
Nick VinZant 25:43
The only way that I would be a ghost is if I also had the capability of talking to other ghosts. Otherwise, I wouldn't want to be a ghost. Like, it'd be kind of cool to mess with people or see what's going on, hang around that kind of stuff. But after a while, that'll get pretty old. You'd be pretty lonely unless you could talk to other ghosts.
John Shull 26:00
Yeah, would get I think, from what the first week when you're, I don't know, flying around and nobody can see you and you're doing things that you know, you wouldn't be able to do if you were able to be seen now. That would be cool for maybe a week. And then yeah, you would just go into the state of depression.
Nick VinZant 26:19
Yeah, you wouldn't want to be a ghost for very long. Unless you can hang out with all the other ghosts, then it'd be pretty cool. Then you could have some fun with it. You could travel. Go see other ghosts. Like go do this mess with this person.
John Shull 26:31
Just scare people for no reason. Just laugh at each other. Sure. Yeah. Sounds great. It's a good
Nick VinZant 26:36
time, man. Have a good time. Are you good under pressure? Do you feel like you're good under pressure?
John Shull 26:41
I feel like you'd have to describe the moments of pressure. But I mean, I can get stuff done if that's what you're referring to.
Nick VinZant 26:49
I feel like under the pressure of being asked that question. You kind of cracked a little bit. I'm gonna say that you're like a six and a half to a seven under pressure.
John Shull 26:59
Alright, well shout out time. Let's see. We'll start with the gym doubt. Or doot.
Nick VinZant 27:05
You know him?
John Shull 27:08
I know Jim doubt. Yes.
Nick VinZant 27:12
You met him? He was at my wedding.
John Shull 27:14
Yeah, Jim. Hi. Good. Good to see Jim. Dang, dude. Dylan Ray. Hannah,
Nick VinZant 27:21
are you afraid? Do you forget people that you meet? Do you feel like you genuinely forget people? How long? How long does it take you to forget someone that you've met?
John Shull 27:30
Like, for instance, Jim, somebody I met one time, and I was probably under the influence of things. I mean, how was I supposed to remember his name? I have never even thought of him outside of that.
Nick VinZant 27:43
But in general, how often would you how long do you think that it takes you to forget somebody like you'll have to be reintroduced introduced to them and you forgot their name that kind of stuff.
John Shull 27:54
Probably a year, maybe less.
Nick VinZant 27:58
Oh, I was gonna say like a day or a week for me. I can forget somebody's name. I can forget somebody's name instantly.
John Shull 28:07
Names I'm not good with but if I if I see them, or if if they pop back up on my phone. I can usually go back to like knowing and recognizing them.
Nick VinZant 28:18
I can't remember names for shit. I can remember a little bit about somebody but not named.
John Shull 28:23
Okay. I'm kind of a nickname person. So if I come up with a nickname for you, I kind of go along with that one. Instead of knowing your actual name.
Nick VinZant 28:31
Do you think people want you to call them nicknames? Like, you know what, at what age do you not want to be called by a nickname anymore?
John Shull 28:40
I guess it depends if it's a flattering nickname or if it's not a flattering nickname.
Nick VinZant 28:46
Well, I don't think any nickname is really flattering.
John Shull 28:49
Sure. So some are good and some are good. Like David or T is the baseball player is forever going to be called Big Papi. That's a sweet nickname.
Nick VinZant 28:57
It's a sweet nickname, but it's also like it's bigger dude. Yeah, like this. There's always a slight bit of condescension and every nickname
John Shull 29:09
I don't disagree with you, but I don't agree either.
Nick VinZant 29:14
Okay, that makes sense. I'm gonna say once you're out of college, you don't want to have be called by a nickname anymore.
John Shull 29:21
Is you're gonna be like, it's your cup iced? No, or just faded is it just faded? I've had this cup for 12 years. For those of you who can't see this, this cup definitely looks like it looks like it's been around for 25 years.
Nick VinZant 29:36
Oh, yeah, it's been faded and washed. It used to be a great cup still good material, probably drinking all kinds of plastic chemicals. It's been sitting after that's gone through the washer 150 times but as far as safe for the body.
John Shull 29:49
I don't even remember where I left off after gym so I'm just gonna continue. Justin Tubbs Jen Thompson, Edward noec Sean Howard. two names for two first names for his name their Patrick Cook, Ethan shuck. Dylan Ray and Romane Ahmed
Nick VinZant 30:10
Dylan's another Dylan's another one of those names. That's a decent name, but there can only be so many of them. You don't want to have a lot of Dylan's
John Shull 30:18
Yeah, you don't. I think I know two Dylan's in my life right now. Two of them.
Nick VinZant 30:23
That's enough. That's all you need.
John Shull 30:25
That's enough Dylan's But say you're starring in a horror movie? Would you rather be the person that gets killed off first? Or be the survivor of the movie?
Nick VinZant 30:37
Well, I ultimately I'd rather live. I mean, I don't ever want to die. Like
John Shull 30:42
you're in a movie you're in. It's not like it's real life. You're in a movie?
Nick VinZant 30:46
Well, then I'd want to last or long around as long as possible. That means I got the brightest career. But right. Oh, see, that's
John Shull 30:53
that's a great point. Like think a scream of Drew Barrymore. Right. She gets killed off in the first 10 minutes.
Nick VinZant 30:59
Didn't even know she was in it.
John Shull 31:01
Oh, my God, of course. Okay, okay. Scream scream is probably the most notable franchise for doing that with, you know, semi famous celebrities. Like I think Jada Pinkett Smith was in the second one, and she gets killed off pretty early her and Omar Epps.
Nick VinZant 31:18
Well, they always kill, they always kill off people of color much quicker. Right?
John Shull 31:24
Well, that's actually and that's been debated to like, why does that happen? I'm sure there's all kinds of research and studies out there that prove as to why that happens. But yeah,
Nick VinZant 31:35
to answer your question, no, I'd like to live through it. Right. I like to be the last person I generally have. If I have a choice between being alive or generally choose being alive.
John Shull 31:44
Now, I think I'd want to go out first, like, just have me be the leading scene there. And I want to be the depth that you remember, I don't want to just be the big guy that wanders through the woods in the middle of the movie that just gets my head cut off. And then on to the next kill. You know,
Nick VinZant 32:00
I wouldn't want to be one of the middle people killed in a horror movie because I feel like those deaths are always unusually brutal. Like the first couple of them. They're just surprised deaths. They're not usually that bad. And then as you get going through the horror movie, it's like they were ripped apart by wild animals. Like they were stabbed 1000 times with a screwdriver like the deaths just get worse. So I'd rather go in the beginning of though.
John Shull 32:30
I don't think I've ever asked you this question on this podcast, even though we've done what six Halloween is together now, but you not being a horror movie fan? i My question is pretty simple. Have you ever seen a real horror movie? And if so, what's the last one that you've watched?
Nick VinZant 32:47
I don't think that I've ever seen it. I went no, maybe I went to see the movie scream in a theater. Maybe. But I also might have went and seen one of those parody movies and I can't keep it straight. But other than that, I've never watched any kind of horror related movie. I'll look up the plot on Wikipedia if I'm really interested in it. But I couldn't I can't watch it. I watched the Haunted Mansion from Disney and I was like it was pushing it a little bit. This is pushing out like scary, man.
John Shull 33:22
I'm not judging anybody, man, if that's your if that's your flavor, that's awesome. But I mean, you haven't seen any of the university in the Nightmare on Elm Street. Friday the 13th So I mean,
Nick VinZant 33:34
no desire to do that whatsoever. I have absolutely no desire to be scared.
John Shull 33:39
Well, you know, it's that's all right. It's we'll move on. My second part of my question here as a homeowner, do you pass out candy do you walk around with your kids and you say Don't you know just put out a bowl what's what's your candy? Putting out strategy on Halloween night?
Nick VinZant 33:58
I go pretty much all effort. I put out candy then I go trick or treating with my children. Then I come back and I hope that maybe we get some visitors because I don't want to eat all this candy. So I go pretty much all what do you not? Do you not do anything?
John Shull 34:13
No. So we we started with? Well, we went full on, you know, handing out candy that we had when we had the babies. So then we would go trick or treating last year was a first year while we were trick or treating. We put out a bowl of candy. And according to our doorbell camera some little bastards took the whole bowl within like five minutes of us leaving our driveway so I
Nick VinZant 34:34
have no problem with that. I get rid of the candy either way, what do you care if it's one kid, five kids or 20 kids just get?
John Shull 34:41
I mean, you kind of feel I mean, I don't know. I was I was kind of angry about it. I mean, you put out I don't know how many 5060 pieces of candy for hopefully all the kids and one fucker takes it all it's you know, it's not fair.
Nick VinZant 34:57
I mean, I'm okay with it. Do right be aggressive in life?
John Shull 35:03
So what you're saying is you applaud that kind of behavior?
Nick VinZant 35:05
Well, either way, I mean, the kids only going to get so much candy. If you load up at one house, then aren't they just leaving it for everything else? I just see it like you either get it all here, you get it a bunch of different places. What's the difference?
John Shull 35:18
Well, this year we have my neighbor's gonna keep a watchful eye on our bowl. So
Nick VinZant 35:22
what a waste of time that is, how old
John Shull 35:25
is too old to look forward to scaring kids on Halloween? Like, if you're a 45 year old man, and you go, or woman, and you go all out on Halloween, just just to get some scares out a little kids. Is that is that is that push that is that too much?
Nick VinZant 35:40
I don't generally approve of scaring children. Right? Like, you're gonna have to have a pretty good reason while you're doing this thing to scare children. I wouldn't have to say I generally don't agree with.
John Shull 35:53
I mean, there's I mean, I'm sure you get it in your neighborhood and people listening, have it in there, you get those few houses that you know, go all out. And they're gonna have jump scares, and shock scares as the kids are walking up to the door. And it's like, my kids, four years old man, and she you know, you don't have to get her.
Nick VinZant 36:10
You got to turn that off. Right? Like if you're trying to do that for like 12 to 16 year olds. That's the thing that I don't understand. The only kids that you should be interested in scaring are the kinds of kids that are old enough that they shouldn't be trick or treating?
John Shull 36:24
Well, that's funny. You mentioned that. That was another question I had for you while we're on this Halloween theme is what is too old to go out trick or treating without children?
Nick VinZant 36:34
I mean, I think you should probably be done by high school. I think high school should be done if not earlier than that, right. But I also think that people are in too much of a hurry to, to grow up. I feel like adults should go trick or treating now, go have fun. Like if your adults showed up at your door. If an adult showed up at your door, clearly without children, would you give them candy?
John Shull 37:00
I'm sure I've done it. So I'm gonna say yes. I mean, there was. I want to say there's 21 Because it's right after the pandemic, like right after 2020 the, you know, the real, real bad year, the pandemic and we had one one kid show up, and he's like, trigger tree. I looked at my wife, I'm like, hell is this fucking guy? Damn
Nick VinZant 37:21
near 30. But what age though, would you what? At what age? Would you not give a trick or treat or candy? 20s 30s 40s
John Shull 37:31
I'm not sure that I would turn somebody down. I don't know if I could do that. I mean, I feel like that takes a lot of gall to look at somebody walking up to your door and have them go through all that just to go. I'm not giving you one little KitKat bar because you're a 67 year old man.
Nick VinZant 37:48
I'm not giving anybody between the ages of 25 and 35. Candy. That's the age where it's like it's not ironic enough. Like, No, you shouldn't be doing this.
John Shull 37:58
I mean, it's a lot. I mean, it's definitely a lot when somebody comes up and they're now with children or even part of a group.
Nick VinZant 38:06
How many of you have coming up to your house that aren't children are part of a group. Do you have that many adults coming trick or treating where you're at?
John Shull 38:13
I mean, I don't know if they're adults, but other definitely teenagers. Matt, you know, but they you know, they look 50 so
Nick VinZant 38:22
good today look older, man. That's pretty damn sure. Ah, are you ready for our top five?
John Shull 38:27
I am. It's gonna be a spooky top five. No, it's okay.
Nick VinZant 38:31
No, it's not. So our top five is top five worst candies to get trick or treating. What's your number five.
John Shull 38:39
So that's about as generic as you can get. But I had to put it on and my number five is just unnamed candies. You know, like the ones that would come in like the wax paper?
Nick VinZant 38:48
Yeah, like the strawberry looking things.
John Shull 38:52
Yeah, just it's you just know by when you get a handful of it that it's just gonna be crap from the get go.
Nick VinZant 38:58
You don't even want it. You don't I don't even want it. I'd rather you just said you didn't have any candy. Um, my number five is taffy. I don't want any kind of taffy or any of that kind of candy. Like whose Taffy it shouldn't be chocolate. Or Halloween candy should basically just be chocolate should all be chocolate. And that's essentially it.
John Shull 39:22
I mean, I would bet that both of our lists it's gonna you're gonna be hard pressed to find any kind of chocolate on a top five words candy list.
Nick VinZant 39:31
No, I think all Halloween candy should be chocolate or have some chocolate in it. Anything else is kind of in the wrong path.
John Shull 39:39
All right, all right. My number four are the wax bottles with the juice in them. Do you remember those? Seemed like seemed like a good idea. But we're such a pain in the ass for what you actually got the juice was always okay. But getting there was just a pain in the butt.
Nick VinZant 39:57
You can't have more than like three to five have of those. Like, I don't want to have 20 of those things like, oh, okay, I'll have one more of those that was kind of different, but then I'm done. It's over with after that
John Shull 40:09
one. It's just like it's just a pain in the butt. And then you know, you go to bite the wax off, and then sometimes you bite into the body and then the juice spills out all over the place, and you just have a mouth loads of wax and it's just, it's just not worth it. Not worth it at all.
Nick VinZant 40:23
No, no, my number four is bitter honey. Okay, yeah, nobody wants that.
John Shull 40:31
I've actually never gotten a bit of honey if I do remember if I do, I don't remember it. I just threw it away or gave it to my dog.
Nick VinZant 40:39
I really have a bit of chocolate said have a bit of honey.
John Shull 40:43
rather have a lot of chocolate.
Nick VinZant 40:46
Okay, number three. Number three. My
John Shull 40:47
number three is probably not going to be a popular choice. But I'm going with pixie sticks as my number three.
Nick VinZant 40:54
Yeah, I don't I don't know if that's number three. But I certainly don't want anything like that are those like dipping things?
John Shull 41:02
So specifically pixie sticks when they came in? And maybe we're I'm aging myself here, but the paper tubes were like when you went to go like, bite it off. If you if you were if you were a jeweler like me, then it gets all nasty and coagulated and nothing comes out and it's just, it's just a pain in the neck.
Nick VinZant 41:24
I don't really want to deal with any complicated candies. No, I don't want to have to there's there should be no more than one step and eating candy. I don't want to dip it. All right, let's open it eat it. That should be the only two steps. My number three is any kind of like suckers, or lollipops or anything like that. The only thing that I could maybe see is like a Tootsie Pop or as chocolate in the middle of it. But anything other than that I don't want any suckers or lollipops or anything like that.
John Shull 41:53
Oh, man. I mean, I don't agree with you there man. suckers are good suckers. Or I don't remember what they're called. But they're the green apple with a caramel on the outside of it. Those are delicious.
Nick VinZant 42:06
I don't want any kind of I don't want anything that I'm not chewing. That's my rule.
John Shull 42:13
My number two and this is such cliche, but it's true. Because this candy is fucking terrible. And that's candy corn.
Nick VinZant 42:25
I don't know if I've no. But was it always that bad? Or is it become a thing where like, now we hate it. Like, oh, it's just the candy that everybody makes fun of? It's the Nickelback of candy. Or it's like really everybody doesn't mind it that much. But it's not that bad. It's just got a bad reputation.
John Shull 42:44
The Nickelback
Nick VinZant 42:47
it's what candy corn is
John Shull 42:49
those funny. Um, I do believe you know, public public opinion has kind of taken over for candy corn, but it's just not very good. I will say some of the variants like chocolate candy corn. Other kinds of cake or stomach bubble but are tolerable, but not It's not regular candy corn. What's it gonna taste like wax half the time?
Nick VinZant 43:10
My number two is that bubble gum? Double Bubble. That was just hard is a brick mic.
John Shull 43:18
You're insane. You're talking about the little rectangle. you'd like us to get the comic strips on the outside. Yeah, but
Nick VinZant 43:25
it was just like a rock. Any kind of like cheap gum that they would give you is just like a rock that you couldn't do anything with.
John Shull 43:33
Now cheap gum I'd give you but not mad. Don't throw a double bubble in there, man.
Nick VinZant 43:38
It was. It was I don't think that was the comic strip one. There. What I know what you're talking about the comic strip gum, but I don't think it's double bubble.
John Shull 43:48
I could very well be wrong. I insane that I would have gone nowhere. That's probably the only candy that actually eat on a regular basis is GM
Nick VinZant 43:56
Bazooka Joe. Okay, yeah, that's Bazooka Joe was the comic. Was that the comic? I don't mind Bazooka Joe. But any of that other kind of like double bubble. Well, it was just like grinding through pebbles. That was yeah, no, no. Okay, whichever one
John Shull 44:13
this should be everyone's unanimous number one because they are and I was looking up some lists before doing this and it was the unanimous number one. And those are circus peanuts.
Nick VinZant 44:26
Oh, wait, but not like actual peanuts. Like the candy circus peanuts.
John Shull 44:30
They're like they are so they're shaped like peanuts, but they're orange. And they're they have like a like a taffy texture. Yeah, like they're like they look like they're gonna be soft, but they're not soft and they taste bad. And when I was a kid, there was always this house. That would give you them but they weren't in bags. They weren't in packaging. So like they would just dump a handful into your bag of circus peanuts. Yeah, and by By the time you get back to your house, they'd either be stale or hard. And it just they were like I said, I've said this about six times already, but they were intolerable to even try.
Nick VinZant 45:11
Why would you go back to the house?
John Shull 45:13
I mean, you never know. Right? Why do you get back with old girlfriends and boyfriends? Because maybe, maybe they're gonna change, you know, you never know.
Nick VinZant 45:20
Kind of give it one more shot. Maybe today's the day. No circus peanuts are terrible. That's the kind of thing that I would just never in my life if I ever thought about eating that or known someone who enjoyed them, like who's keeping that candy in business.
John Shull 45:37
I know one person who enjoys them, and I question his tastes on almost everything.
Nick VinZant 45:43
Yeah, that's pretty standard. If you're going to eat something like that, you got a lot of bad tastes. Um, my number one is, um, any kind of cracker or cheez it. Or anything that kind of comes in a bag that people hands you anything like that. I don't want any of that stuff on Halloween. It's essentially chocolate or nothing, just give me chocolate.
John Shull 46:04
Just said, my top five is anything that's not chocolate.
Nick VinZant 46:08
Anything that's not chocolate is basically the worst kind of Halloween candy.
John Shull 46:12
I would always get excited actually, if I got packets like that, because you never knew what was in them. I, you know, I didn't want the one Tootsie Roll, which are also kind of terrible, too. By the way, Tootsie Rolls are not very good candy. You know, one thing that I never really, like, maybe it was just the area I grew up in are the houses that we went to. But I didn't get a lot of full candy bars.
Nick VinZant 46:36
I had one or two houses that would give a full candy bar. But I don't think that I ever came back with more than three full candy bars on a night a trick or treating.
John Shull 46:45
I mean, we had there was one person that lived like four houses down from us that would just hand out single pennies. And now looking back on it. I'm like, what a pissed off person to give out single pennies.
Nick VinZant 46:57
Like what am I going to do with that? If I go to 100 houses I could get $1? Like, what are you gonna do with that?
John Shull 47:05
I mean, obviously different times. I mean, this was the early 90s. So pennies had a little bit more value than they do now. But not not much at all.
Nick VinZant 47:14
You could never buy anything with that. Never there's there can't be a single person in the entire United States of America who has ever like, gotten enough pennies or money on Halloween to actually buy something.
John Shull 47:29
I'm sure there is I'm sure someone's going to post it somewhere for us and say hey, you were wrong, Nick so and so got 42,000 pennies went all the way night or something
Nick VinZant 47:40
sack of pennies. I mean, you got 42,000 I don't know how much money that is. That's like foreign toy dollars, actually. What's your honorable mention? Do you have any honorable mention?
John Shull 47:50
That's a lot of work for me. Not a word. I have hot tamales.
Nick VinZant 47:57
Okay, I don't mind a hot tamale. I can shake it up a little bit. It's just that's an approved shake it up candy to bring me back to like, Oh no, I actually want this again that
John Shull 48:08
I put Smarties on the list because, oh, one package of Smarties is kind of pushing it but when you get multiple packs of Smarties and it's just I don't know they're just not not at a candy to me Smarties.
Nick VinZant 48:22
I would put that in there like you can have a couple category like I can have a couple of Smarties a couple of Tootsie Rolls, a couple of like a candy in a box like a milk dud or whatever else comes in there. But that's about it. Otherwise, it's got to be m&ms, Reese's Pieces. KitKat, tic tac, tic tic, Twix, Twix, Detroit tax
John Shull 48:43
exempt Max and paddywax. Um, what else do Yeah, that's kind of I mean, that's that's kind of it. I also put on here like any caramel candy, but that's just my preference. I'm not a big caramel fan. So
Nick VinZant 48:59
I never like caramel on the outside of anything. I can handle caramel on the inside, but I never want it on the outside of something.
John Shull 49:05
And for God's sakes, if you're listening to this, and you listen to anything we ever say, which is your own fault. Don't give fruit do not give fruit out on Halloween. That's just a terrible idea
Nick VinZant 49:17
what it was like blueberries now somebody gave me blueberries I'd be okay with that. Like, here's the thing of blueberries
John Shull 49:22
for fruit. Nobody in this country is heading out, you know, one blueberry a half, you know, eight ounces of blueberries per kid with the price of blueberries but that was that's just a terrible idea.
Nick VinZant 49:35
And then you had a watermelon slice. What are some What if you went to somebody's house and they had a watermelon slice?
John Shull 49:40
The only way that I'm okay with getting you know, treats like that is if you know the people well. And if it's like in a hot climate.
Nick VinZant 49:51
What fruits Would you accept as Halloween gifts? Or what what what fruits Would you accept as Halloween triggered? Freeze. Like if they gave you this kind of fruit, you'd be like, okay, all right.
John Shull 50:05
I wouldn't accept any actually. And last year that we had some apples and bananas. Nope.
Nick VinZant 50:13
I would accept blueberries, watermelon, mango.
John Shull 50:20
I mean, if you're asking me my personal preference, I mean, I mean, I take most fruit. I think I like fruit. So,
Nick VinZant 50:26
I'm not taking any oranges or apples. You gotta give me some exoticness. There has to be a little bit of it exotic ability to the fruit. Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. It really does help out the show. It supports us a lot. So even a couple of quick words really helps us out and let us know what you think are similar, just the worst candies to get the kind where you would I just don't even want this. Like why would you even have this I would honestly take a mango or some blueberries. You give me like a watermelon? I would rather have watermelon than any of the candies that we talked about. Any of John or eyes