Like a headhunter for the heart, Elite Matchmaker Michelle Apples helps people find love. We talk the key to finding the perfect match, dating advice, the best/worst dating apps and what men and women are really looking for in someone. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Kinds of Soup.
Interview with Elite Matchmaker Michelle Apples
Speakers
Nick VinZant: Profoundly Pointless Host
Michelle Apples: Matchmaker
In this episode we talk about
How do you become a Matchmaker
How do Matchmakers find you a match
What is the best dating app, what does a professional matchmaker think is the best dating app
What is the worst dating app, what does a professional matchmaker think is the worst dating app
What are men looking for in a woman
What are women looking for in a man
Dating advice from a professional matchmaker and dating coach
Social media and dating
Nick VinZant 0:12 Hey everybody, welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, we're finding the perfect match and the perfect soup.
Michelle Apples 0:21 And then I started a job that was an events club for single people. So I started with that, and then just would match people up. And from there, they ended up getting married or I was part of proposals, and now a bunch of them have babies. Well, I think we live in such an instant gratification culture, where people are just trying to go on like 10 different dates with 10 different people in one week, and they're not really looking at one person in front of them. Because a lot of times I feel like you like the idea of someone but don't actually like the person. So that's the number one mistake I think women make. There's three things that a woman is looking for. When she's looking for a man and I think that's communication, I think that's affection and security.
Nick VinZant 1:06 I want to thank you guys so much for joining us. If you get a chance, like, download, subscribe, share, we really appreciate it. It really helps us out. So I think that everybody is basically just looking for love. Just looking for love. Our first guest helps people find love. This is professional Matchmaker, Michelle apples. So how did you become a matchmaker?
Michelle Apples 1:30 Well, I started into matchmaking actually, a few years ago, I was working mostly in events. And then I started a job that was an events club for single people. So I started with that and then just would match people up and from there, they ended up getting married or I was part of proposals and now a bunch of them have babies. So it kinda just fell into place. And then when I moved to Toronto actually knew a lady who owned a matchmaking agency and we reconnect After a long time, I used to do some modeling for her. And she and she had a job opening. So here I am as a matchmaker,
Nick VinZant 2:07 what makes you good at it, though? Michelle Apples 2:10 You know, I think I do have a gift of discernment. So I can tell a lot about the person without them saying a lot. So that helps a lot. But I think I've just had really a lot of relationship experiences not all good, but I've learned what not to do, because I've had a lot of head relationships. Or I've seen a lot of bad relationships in my life. So I've learned a lot of what not to do. Nick VinZant 2:33 Are you just matching like good people with good people, though, because I feel like, that's relatively easy to do. Like, what's harder is matching shitty people with shitty people. Is that, does that make any sense?
Michelle Apples 2:46 Yeah, I mean, it's definitely difficult because you're dealing with all sorts of personalities, and all sorts of like ranges of people from different, like avenues of life. So that's definitely hard, but it's really just getting getting to know people on a deeper level and knowing what they like made rather than what they want.
Nick VinZant 3:06 Do most people know what they need?
Michelle Apples 3:09 No. That's why it's my job to figure it out.
Nick VinZant 3:13 Why don't we kind of understand more about what we actually need and want?
Michelle Apples 3:18 Well, I think we live in such an instant gratification culture, where people are just trying to go on like 10 different dates with 10 different people all in one week. And they're not really looking at one person in front of them. So I think it's just that we want things right away. And we're not really willing to like have the patience and the persistence to like, go for the long run, right? When you match people, do they usually end up in a relationship that works when it's with somebody that they thought they would match with? Or is it sometimes the complete opposite of what of what they thought? Yeah, a lot of times it is the complete opposite where they're not sure about The person when I first send over, like their profile, and then I'm like, just give it a chance go out and see how you feel. And they end up being like, wow, that person was so amazing in real life. Or they'll look at someone and be like, I don't know, he's a couple years younger than me, and they'll go out and realize he's actually amazing person. So it's that Yeah, there's definitely a lot of that where people are very skeptical at first and then go out and realize they actually like what they think they didn't.
Nick VinZant 4:25 What are you looking for when you put two people together?
Michelle Apples 4:28 I think like, first off, I really look at like, are they wanting the same things like, you can't match someone with someone else and one person's looking for a relationship and other the other person's looking for something casual, it'll never work out. So I always look at like, are they both wanting the same thing? And if they are, then I look at interests I look at like who they are as people. My job is really a people job. So it's getting to know so much about them. Like I always say I become my clients best friends because I'm always gonna calling them I'm always asking them questions like our first meeting, I'm asking them things that you wouldn't ever ask someone the first time you're meeting like past relationships, like, give me all the drama that you've like been through in your life. So you get to know them on a deeper level.
Nick VinZant 5:14 So they're not just filling out a questionnaire, right, like you're actually going and having conversations and, like, personalized service.
Michelle Apples 5:22 So that's what makes matchmaking so different than like going on a dating app, as I'm getting to know you as a person as as an individual. So I'm able to personalize the service to you and what you're looking for and your character and personality rather than like, hey, just fill this out. And I'll like, try to find
Nick VinZant 5:40 What's your typical client like is your typical client who comes to you as a man? Is it a woman? Are they wealthier, average? What are they like?
Michelle Apples 5:50 I think this is the thing that surprises most people is it's such a variety, whereas like, my youngest client is 29. My oldest client is 67. I both male Some females, most of them are on the wealthier side or more successful side because of our service prices, and they're not cheap. So we are dealing with more elite people than not, but that, that being said, it's not close, I'm not closed off to working with someone who doesn't have that status. It's just usually someone without that status isn't willing to pay that price tag for that service.
Nick VinZant 6:21 When we talk about a price tag, like what on average is that is the cost of a matchmaking service?
Michelle Apples 6:26 Yeah, I mean, it ranges by packages. So the lowest package you could get is 3000. You can you know, and then it customizes up up from there. So most people, you know, aren't paying $3,000 for a dating app sort of thing. So you're, you're really investing in it. And I think that's really what helps it work and be so successful though is because when people are coming to me and paying that amount of money for the service, they're actually investing in themselves and looking for something serious, you know, they're not, they're being really intentional about it. You know, they're not just throwing them there. picture and profile on a dating app, but they're not actually really looking for something serious.
Nick VinZant 7:03 When you're looking for a client's significant other. Are you looking only within like your client database? Are you like walking around at restaurants, so to speak, like, oh, that person looks good.
Michelle Apples 7:15 Yeah, I kind of do all of the above. Whereas we collaborate with a lot of other matchmakers, which I think is really unique is we're not, they're not my competition anymore. We're just collaborating, which is really cool. But also, like, I'll go to networking events, I'll go meet people. I'm such a social person myself. So I've had clients where I've been like, Oh, I actually dated a guy, but I like it didn't work out for me. But I think YouTube would be perfect together and set them up with guys I've went out with in the past or just met people at different networking event. And then we have a huge database as well. So it's kind of like I'm like a headhunter for the heart. So I go out and I find it in any way I possibly can.
Nick VinZant 7:56 What quality Do you think that two people have to kind of share
Michelle Apples 8:00 Oh, that's a good question. I think, I think it's just you have to go into it with the right intention. So, being intentional is like a quality that I would say, like going and looking for in a relationship. That's what needs to happen. Because if one person's too casual and the other person's intentional, it's gonna fall apart. Or it's like you both have to want it enough to actually put the work and effort into it.
Nick VinZant 8:25 How many times though in like your matchmaking, have you made what you thought is a really good match, but then the people just blew it
Michelle Apples 8:33 It's happened a few times for sure. I don't know, like a specific number. But yeah, you just never you never know how people are going to connect or like I do find right now. It's such a sensitive time in our world where it's like, people are very offended over a lot of things. So it's like you kind of have to be careful in that sense, because someone might say something that offends the other person. And so people are very easily offended these days.
Nick VinZant 9:00 How quickly should someone know if this is gonna work out or not?
Michelle Apples 9:03 I'd say like date two, I would say like the first day everyone's trying to put on a like good impression or they're nervous or something. I always say if you're curious, then like, go on a second date and see if you're like, absolutely not. That was the worst experience of my life then don't. So, you know, I would say if you're curious at all, give it a shot. If it's a definite No, like, nobody wants to waste their time going out with someone that they know, it's never going to work out.
Nick VinZant 9:31 What is the most common mistake that men make? What's the biggest mistake that women make?
Michelle Apples 9:38 I'd say the biggest mistake that women make are is they overanalyze everything right away. Like they get so invested so fast, whereas like, I have clients that have been on like one or two dates, and they're just like, all in their head about everything that's happened. And it's like I would say, like the first day it's not, it's not like an interview to get married. It's Interview just in case you want a second date. So it's like, relax, enjoy. Do you actually like this person? Like, don't go away with it and be like, Oh my gosh, like, I'm like, I'm overanalyzing everything in my head. It's like, no, go away. And actually ask yourself these questions like, did I even like this person? Because a lot of times, I feel like you like the idea of someone but don't actually like the person. So that's the number one mistake I think women make. And I think for men, the number one mistake they make is they want all the options instead of looking at what's in front of them. Whereas like, all Macs, have like a man up with someone and they'll be like, send me more profile, send me more profiles, and I'm like, No, like, concentrate on what's in front of you. And then we'll move on if this doesn't work out. But I think like you can't be effective in 10 different places at one time. So you need to concentrate on what's in front of you if you actually want a serious relationship.
Nick VinZant 10:54 How do you get the guys though, to just basically look beyond what the woman or the whoever they're Looking for looks like
Michelle Apples 11:02 I like, I think like, it's building that trust with clients. So I have a lot of male clients that now trust that I've actually done the work to know who this person is. If I say, Hey, I think there's something there. I think like, they are a good catch for you, they'll usually trust it and go for it. But I think that it's hard because you're looking at a profile and I think, you know, it's just like online dating a picture only says so much, right? You can meet that person a, they might not look like their profile picture. They might not have a personality. Whereas like, I learned that lesson so so early in life, or I was once like obsessed with this guy for so long. And then I went out with him and he was like, the biggest dad I've ever met. And I was like, I wasted so much time thinking that this guy was so attractive and there was nothing else there. So I titled it, like help them understand who this person is and the character and why I think they would fit together better.
Nick VinZant 11:59 Is it easier Now or is it harder than it was a couple of years ago because of technology essentially?
Michelle Apples 12:05 Oh, I think it's definitely harder. I think that there are so many options out there. And so people always like, what's the next best thing? Is there something better out there? Like, I don't want to settle for this, because maybe the next one might be better. So it just makes it this just a rat race. So like, trying to find the best thing and knowing that there's so many more options still out there.
Nick VinZant 12:28 Have you ever had somebody that you are just, I can't look buddy, I can't do anything for you.
Michelle Apples 12:32 I definitely have like, I, I can always do something for you. But it's whether or not I think you're going to be successful at it or not. Or if I do have clients where I'm like, what you're looking for is not what you need. And it's this is never going to work out long term because of what you're asking me and the criteria that you've set. So I try to coach them but you can only help people who want to help themselves. So a lot of times they will appreciate it. But they won't take it and that's fine. We'll work together as long as your contracts up but like, you know going forward Other than that, I can't do much for you.
Nick VinZant 13:09 Is there really someone for everyone?
Michelle Apples 13:12 Yes, I think that there is someone for everyone but I think it's like not having this crazy expectation or this small box of what that person has to be. Where's like I think like, you know, even my past relationships sure I could have made them work but I didn't want to make them work or like they didn't feel right for me. But I think like you can you can find someone but I think you have to look at yourself first and realize like, hey, am I putting this like box around people whereas like people are real people are flawed people are human, and especially with technology these days and social media and, and how everyone looks so perfect and flawless. Well, that's not reality. So it's like realizing that people are real and flawed and like you're not going to ever have a perfect person.
Nick VinZant 13:55 So I always thought this was interesting. I don't remember if I made this up. I read this somewhere. But it's basically like this 80% rule that if you present a guy with a woman or a significant other, that's 80% of what they want a guy would be like, oh, wow, that's a great catch. But if you presented a woman with 80% of what she wanted, they would not think that that's that they could do better. Is that? Is there any truth to that?
Michelle Apples 14:22 gently? I definitely think that I find women more pickier than men. Like I've worked with both females and males. I do find women are way pickier than men. So I feel like men, yeah, if you have most of the criteria, they're usually pretty good. I mean, I definitely have some pickier clients that they're like, nope, 100% criteria. That's all I want. But yeah, with women, I think like they look at such small details. Whether it's like, oh, like for example, I was on a call with the client this morning. And she's like, Oh, he's he's younger than me. I've always dated older men. I don't know about this. And I'm like, but you just texted me this morning. said how amazing and good looking he was and how much how comfortable and natural it felt on your first date. And you're really going to risk that by having the wrong perspective of, oh, he's a couple years younger than me, like everyone matures at different legs speeds, right? So it's like, he might be a couple years younger than you, but he might still be like, those guys that you're typically used to dating. Is it harder to match ugly people or beautiful people? and relatively speaking, right, relatively speaking, is it harder to match the uglier people or the beautiful people? I think? I don't think it's either or I think it's more so how picky they are. Whereas if someone comes to me and they are drop dead, gorgeous, they usually have a lot higher standards than someone who is more of an average looking person. That makes sense, right?
Nick VinZant 15:53 Have you ever had to basically crush someone's expectations though, like hey, this, you're not Not gonna you're not, you're a two you're not you're not finding a ten.
Michelle Apples 16:03 Yeah, I guess I know, like, because we deal with a lot of wealthier people. Like, I have older gentlemen that are looking for very young women. And it's like, Yes, I can get that. I know it's not going to go anywhere long term like you're expecting it to. But I can find you that and I can find you a 10. who's really young, but she's not after you for the right reasons. Yeah, that makes sense, right? Like a 75 year old is looking for a 10 who's 25 Yeah, that's not gonna. That's, I can find you that but you're not going to be satisfied long term. And it's not going to last long term.
Nick VinZant 16:43 Should a working relationship ultimately be easy?
Michelle Apples 16:47 I think easy is a bad word for it. Like I think that people need to go into relationships, knowing that they're going to be work and hard, like, work is never easy, right? But it's like How are you looking at this? Are you looking at it like it's work? Are you looking at it like oh, this is a challenge and I like challenges.
Nick VinZant 17:05 What is the most interesting quirk someone has ever had as a deal breaker like person cannot have green eyes or anything like that.
Michelle Apples 17:17 Hmm that's a good question. I don't know if I've had really like in like anything specific that was like an ordinary I think your typical like the number one deal breaker is probably smoking. But other than that, I haven't had like weird things like I've definitely had like a shorter males like very particular on like, the woman has to be shorter because they don't want to feel short and they're already quite a short person. But yeah, nothing out of the ordinary so far. Once I'll get that now that we've talked about it. Now you'll pick one up,
Nick VinZant 17:56 it's like they have to have one green eye and one brown eyes. Like what? I can't I can't help you, buddy. I can't help you.
Michelle Apples 18:04 I mean, once I, once I read a profile, and it was a new client coming on, and it was like her, the woman he's looking for has to have like her, her dad has to have a German background and her mother needs to have like a European back. And I was like, excuse me. So like, that was kind of weird. But, you know, once I actually talked to him on the phone, it was like not so much like that. It was just him trying to get the idea of what he was looking for across
Nick VinZant 18:32 what dating app is the best. Which one is the worst?
Michelle Apples 18:35 I would say in my personal opinion, I would say hinges the best. And the worst, you probably match.com
Nick VinZant 18:46 that's how I met my wife.
Michelle Apples 18:49 Yeah, that's so funny. I just feel like I have the weirdest people approach me on match.com and they're like, I just want to touch your hair. I just want to like and they'll message like five times if they want to touch my hair, and I'm like, Where's this weird?
Nick VinZant 19:05 See, but I guess this was in 2011. So maybe they changed it right? Yeah, some of them are kind of like, Whoa, plenty of fish was the one that always that seemed like the bottom row, right?
Michelle Apples 19:21 Yeah, it's funny you say that actually I was when I was doing more events. I actually threw the birthday party for the guy who owns plenty of fish. So it's crazy that that all just kind of happened in my life before I was ever into the like, dating matchmaker world. What?
Nick VinZant 19:38 What is the guy who starts a dating app like,
Michelle Apples 19:42 like he was pretty nerdy, like he had a game of thrones birthday party. So everyone was dressed up there was like someone dressed up in a big dragon costume and like, it was interesting. Like, I was like, wow, this is such an elaborate party, but you know, he was definitely like he had a very hot one. But he was more introverted. So yeah, it was interesting.
Nick VinZant 20:05 Who ruins more relationships men or women?
Michelle Apples 20:09 I think women just because I think that women tend to like overanalyze everything or get upset and not communicate properly. And I think communication is so important in a relationship. And if you can't just communicate your thoughts, rather than make up stories in your head, like, eventually, you're just going to drive yourself crazy.
Nick VinZant 20:31 Do the good ones get taken early?
Michelle Apples 20:34 Yes, and no. I feel like good guys. Like, a lot of women don't like them too good. But I think like the good like, like if they're good, but not in a sense of like, good, but like too nice, then then they usually get taken really early.
Nick VinZant 20:49 Yeah. I feel like those ones. That's what what is that? Like the compassionate protector? Right? Isn't that what essentially every woman is ultimately looking for? Do I know what I'm talking about? Or am I just making things up?
Michelle Apples 21:03 Yeah, I think there's three things that a woman is looking for when she's looking for a man. And I think that's communication. I think that's affection and security.
Nick VinZant 21:13 What do you think is the hardest challenge that people have to overcome in relationships?
Michelle Apples 21:17 I think it's just finding new rhythms. Like you're, you're making a life with someone that is so different from you, right? And it's like, being able to really vibe with that person and, and just know that you're such such different people and to be able to like, not just accept that about that other person, but also encourage that because that's what makes them them.
Nick VinZant 21:40 What do you think is, is the most interesting part of your job?
Michelle Apples 21:44 I think the most interesting part is like really like, I feel like dating is so exciting to people you know, but also one of those things. It's a love hate relationship, like people love dating, but they also hate dating, because it is just like your time like finding rhythms with someone else and That's always challenging. I really love my job because it is such a painful job. I love people I like I love that the first interview I gonna ask you about your whole dating history before I even really know you.
Nick VinZant 22:11 Have you ever had some people that are just huge disasters? Just like oh my gosh, what am I gonna do with you?
Michelle Apples 22:19 I won't say no.
Nick VinZant 22:21 Makes sense. Unless I just had a lot of money like I would have definitely have to be really committed. And like everything else has not worked before I would turn to a matchmaker. Is that kind of how it works out?
Michelle Apples 22:35 Well, I think like, and again, I'm dealing with very successful people and people that have gotten to a certain level in their career, where it's like, I don't think the average person will go to a matchmaker but I do see that there's so much value in someone say that owns a company has 300 employees, they're not going to go just put their face on a dating app now because all their employees might see them on it and they have the reputation to maintain Or, you know, they or they have some elite status in the city and they don't want to just like, put themselves on a dating app. Right. So I think in that sense, it makes so much sense. Whereas like, yeah, if I didn't, if I had a reputation to maintain, I probably wouldn't go just throw myself on Tinder and hope that I don't see anyone I know.
Nick VinZant 23:18 Yeah, it'd be kind of weird if you were like a professional athlete on Tinder or a politician on Tinder, wouldn't it?
Michelle Apples 23:24 Exactly. So then they come to me instead
Nick VinZant 23:26 Now, do you deal with all sexualities? Or do you just specialize in certain ones?
Michelle Apples 23:33 Yeah, so we actually, I haven't personally worked with anyone other than male female relationships. That that's not me saying I would never but it's just not something that hasn't happened.
Nick VinZant 23:46 What do you do with your clients in terms of social media? Like do you tell them to scrub it? Do you tell them to clean it up? What do you tell them to do?
Michelle Apples 23:55 I think social media is a huge like, that's the first thing you do when you are about to meet someone is you look on social media and see who they are. So I definitely have a look and see like, the first thing we do is Google people and see what comes up. So it's like really hot. Like, I need to know that. Like, if someone if I'm going to match you with someone, they're not going to go on and be like, Who is this guy? What is he doing? Or girl, vice versa. I always tell people not to look up people in on social media before going out with them. I think it just takes so much away from dating. Because it's like you already know everything you need to know about this person you already have made up in your head, whether you're a year, you know, like low vibe with this person. So I always try to tell people like Don't, don't look them up if you can.
Nick VinZant 24:43 After a first date, though. When Can someone make like the friend requests the follow?
Michelle Apples 24:50 I would say wait a couple dates. Because again, you get like such an idea of someone and again, it's an idea where anyone can perceive themselves as anything on social media. Yeah. So do you really want to like go in and understand who this person is on a platform and then see them in real life and be like, wow, this is two different people or get to know them on a human level and then add them. So I would say like, give it a couple months and then have them.
Nick VinZant 25:17 Do you have any favorite pickup lines?
Michelle Apples 25:21 I don't really like pick apply. So no.
Nick VinZant 25:24 If you were to like, look at people, broad characteristics in terms of, they're nice, they're funny, they're kind. They're loyal. They're a jerk. Which broad characteristic of people is the easiest to find a match with which one is like the hardest one to find a match for?
Michelle Apples 25:42 I think the hardest would be like someone who's very introverted and stiff. Because like I've had clients where I'm just like, do you have any like non professional photos of you doing like, some sort of activity or something that makes you look like Like you're a little more fun and engaging because right now people are looking at you and saying he's an introvert. Now he All he has is professional photos. He kind of seems stiff.
Nick VinZant 26:09 Who's the easiest
Michelle Apples 26:10 I think like someone who's like a little goofy, because then you can you know, like going into it you can already be yourself.
Nick VinZant 26:19 Um, that's pretty much all the questions that I have what is there anything else that you think we missed? Or what's coming next for you?
Michelle Apples 26:27 Yeah, just working away. I mean, COVID-19 has definitely changed the dating game. So just happened to readjust with all that and do a whole virtual dating thing and, and so yeah, just working through this pandemic that we're in and knowing that one day we'll be back to normal.
Nick VinZant 26:47 I want to thank Michelle so much for joining us if you want to connect with her. We have linked to her on our social media accounts. We're Profoundly Pointless on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. And we have also included her information on the RSS feed that's on this podcast.