The fireworks explode in an instant of blinding light and thunderous sound. But designing a fireworks show takes months of preparation and years of training.
From the Macy’s 4th of July Fireworks show to Burning Man, Pyrotechnician Steven Yoss has been behind the scenes at some of the world’s biggest fireworks shows. In this episode of Profoundly Pointless we talk the art of designing fireworks shows, the science of making fireworks and what happens when things go wrong.
Then, in the Pointless part of the show, we countdown the Top 5 Actors and Actresses You Know but Can’t Name.
00:00 Introducing Pyrotechnician Steve Yoss
0:59 Designing Fireworks Shows
04:32 How Fireworks are Made
07:41 Fireworks Dangers
09:37 The Best and Worst Fireworks
11:51 Fireworks Colors
13:51 Fireworks Injuries
15:51 The Best Fireworks Shows
19:49 The Future of Fireworks Shows
20:51 Pointless
46:51 Top 5 Actors You Know But Can’t Name
Interview with Pyrotechnician Steve Yoss
Nick VinZant 0:13
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this show, fireworks shows and actors that you know, but don't know
Steve Yoss 0:24
it's every time they make it, it'll be a little bit different, it'll never be the same effect twice, and you get to witness this one little thing, and then if you're not there, it's gone.
Nick VinZant 0:34
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it. Really helps out the show. So, I want to get right to our first guest, because he gives us an inside look at what Fourth of July fireworks shows are really like. This is Pyrotechnician Steven Yoss. So, what is a pyro technician?
Steve Yoss 1:00
You know, I would say it is a professional who is qualified and is properly trained on the safe execution of doing fireworks displays.
Nick VinZant 1:10
How much training goes into it?
Steve Yoss 1:13
It's a license, just like any other profession, whether you're a CPA, which I also am, or a lawyer, or a medical doctor, you know you're getting a license from the state that shows and demonstrates that you have gone through the proper training and have the proper background to be able to do this, and in my particular case, it's a lifelong thing. I grew up in the profession, my dad, while not a licensed pyrotechnician, has been in the community for pretty much his life, which means it's the entirety of my life, I grew up doing this, and then when I turned 18, that's when I really kind of started shooting shows, and that, at least here in the state of California, is the minimum age to be able to handle pyrotechnics, and for the first several years, it was just apprenticing, it's just basically learning from other people, and I would say that it is very much a tradition that's been handed down 1000s of years, really kind of going back to the invention of black powder to today, from person to person.
Nick VinZant 2:05
Would you say it's a difficult job?
Steve Yoss 2:08
You know, when you're a crew member, you know it's often working with the pyro itself. It's a very physically demanding job, you know. We like to say it's fire work, you know, because it is work. The equipment we're working with, the mortars themselves are very heavy, you could be working with anything from stuff that weighs, you know, a couple of pounds to hundreds of pounds, you know, a 10 inch mortar, which is a steel gun, has a side in wall, probably about a quarter inch of cold rolled steel in a sanded mortar box, can weigh 1000 pounds easily, the
Nick VinZant 2:37
mortar is what fires the firework, right,
Steve Yoss 2:40
it's it's the, it's the tube that ultimately the firework will leave from, and when a firework goes off, you know, we have a firework seated at the bottom of the mortar, and when we light it, it produces a ton of gas, like a tremendous amount of gas, and that creates a concussion at the bottom of the mortar that ultimately projects the shell out of the mortar itself up into the sky, and we know roughly, you know, the size based off of the diameter of that shell, how big it'll go, meaning how wide it'll shoot, how high it'll go in the air, how long it'll take to get to the apex, and all of that's determined by the firework itself, and ultimately the mortar you use.
Nick VinZant 3:16
So, is this a math equation at the end of the day, like if you put this much stuff, it'll go this far, it'll be this big. Like, is it predictable, or is there an unpredictability to it?
Steve Yoss 3:29
It's not 100% formula, it's art and science, but we roughly know, you know, if I do this and this and this, it's going to yield something that'll look something like this. Now, just like a baker baking a cake, I mean, you can, you know, have some variations on that, but for the most part, we know roughly what it's going to be, and what I would tell you, the rough calculations, this isn't perfect, but the rough is that for about every inch of diameter of shell, and typically you'll start off the smallest shells are going to be about three inches, and those are our finale shells going all the way up to the largest standard production size is 12 inch, but I will point out they can go much bigger than that, much bigger, but roughly for about every inch of caliber it's roughly about 100 feet of burst, meaning it'll go 100 feet wide, it'll go 100 feet in the air, and it'll take a second to get there, so roughly, let's say like an eight inch shell, which would be a fairly large Fourth of July production shell that we would use, that'll roughly go about 800 feet wide, it'll take eight seconds to apex, and it'll go about 800 feet in the air, roughly.
Nick VinZant 4:32
The fireworks themselves are these basically just big black cats, like the kind of thing that somebody could buy, or is it? No, it's a fundamentally different type of fire.
Steve Yoss 4:44
We have two major classifications, three technically, but really in production, there's two major classifications. It actually comes from the Department of Transportation. We have 1.3 and we have 1.4 and 1.3 is aerial pyrotechnics, which is non-consumer. Um, these are these are.. I want to point out, they're not high explosives, they're normal explosive devices. It's not like c4 it's not like Detcord or something like that. These are artistic effects, and it's important to note that our fireworks are art, and what we're going for isn't necessarily a blast, but what that blast produces - beautiful colors, sound effects, things of this nature, and those fireworks are designed for that, but aerial fireworks, which is the 1.3 which is the stuff we're typically dealing with here. You know, your consumer should never handle those. I'm not going to say that they're unsafe, but they do require particular training and safety awareness to be able to work correctly, and they also require in almost all instances of mortar, which again most consumers are not going to have, but these shells are, I mean, they're fundamentally different in terms of how they operate, and they're typically single, single thing, like you might end up getting a fountain or a cake or something like that from a consumer grade that might have lots of different effects in it. Our effects are single purpose, you know. So, it's like a, you know, let's say five inch red dahlia, or it might be a, you know, three inch red, white, blue peony, but it does one thing, and one thing only.
Nick VinZant 6:12
How do you make the fireworks? Is it gunpowder,
Steve Yoss 6:16
black powder? You know, we use different chemicals to be able to create the different effects that we want it to be, you know, so like we have different effects that'll make crackle, we have different effects that will make it bright and yellow or bright and blue, you mix different chemicals together to ultimately get the effect that you're going for, and it's the process of kind of pulling it all together that you'll ultimately create what are called stars, and stars are those pyrotechnic effects that have been rolled in certain chemicals, they end up as kind of, if you can imagine little balls, and those end up like pixels in the sky, you know, like when you're looking at fireworks and you see the individual lights coming down, those are those are what we call stars, and you make those by hand, it's important to note, every firework, every firework out there, everything is made by hand, it doesn't matter if it's made by myself or it's made by a manufacturing facility. Everything is made by hand. There is no real kind of like mass manufacturing of this, and somebody's hands ultimately made every effect that you've ever seen, and one shell might have taken that person three days or even longer.
Nick VinZant 7:19
Wow, it takes that long.
Steve Yoss 7:22
Oh, it could take way longer than that. You know, I have a good friend, his name is Jim Widman, that he's also a member of all of this. He's a current record holder for pretty much every large caliber firework you've ever seen, and he'll often work on a single shell for months to get that one perfect shell that goes off.
Nick VinZant 7:41
How careful do you have to be? Like, is there a wiggle room, or if you make one mistake, there goes the house.
Steve Yoss 7:50
We have tables of distances that we have to follow. So, if you're doing this, this, and this, you need x number of feet between structures. There's strict criterion guidelines about what that manufacturing space has to have certainly no flame. Period. You know, but the other big thing that we have to think about is static electricity. You know, what's the atmospheric pressure? You know, because certain things, for example, will create atmospheric pressure, which is going to create more static. Lightning, you know, is a huge consideration. You know, I would tell you, anytime you're manufacturing them, at least for myself, the first thing I'm thinking about is egress, you know. If something happens, how can I get away from here? This is absolutely not something you want to do just in your house or your backyard. You need to have a dedicated space to be able to do this, correct?
Nick VinZant 8:32
So, when it comes to actually shooting them, is this computerized or is this old school? There's somebody there with a match,
Steve Yoss 8:40
currently for our company, with very few exceptions, almost everything is shot electronically in that way, and that really kind of allowed us to be able to do things with much tighter choreography, where we can choreograph the effects and the time that those effects go up in the sky to be able to produce fireworks shows that are cued specifically to music, and so when you see, you know, again, like the 1812 overture, and you hear the cannon fire going, you know that cannon fire occurring is occurring at the same time we're shooting pyro in the air, and it's perfectly synced up. It's not that you can't do that with electronic firing, which is a manual process where the pyro literally shoots each shell, but they're doing it remotely. The computer is just going to do it with such accuracy that really kind of separates, I would say, the ability to be able to choreograph these shows to a much tighter timeline.
Nick VinZant 9:33
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?
Steve Yoss 9:36
Yeah, sure.
Nick VinZant 9:37
What is your favorite firework? What is your least favorite firework?
Steve Yoss 9:41
Great question for me. Firework is about art, you know, and really what I look for in a great firework, and I mean it. There's so many different types of effects that are out there that you can consider. For me, what I really want to look for is is just the quality of the shell itself. So I look for symmetry. You know, is it balanced? Does the left look like the right? Does top look like the bottom? You know, was it laid out correctly in the shell? I look for color, vibrance. You know, I really like beautiful, vibrant colors. I look for effect stuff I've never seen before, like chase sequences, where a firework, for example, they can call it - we call it ghosting - where we'll roll the shells in one color, let it dry, and then we'll roll them in another color, and as the firework burns, it can change colors, for example, from blue to red, you know, those, and sometimes it will actually chase around the firework itself, you know, where it'll kind of vibrant, bright flashing, which is kind of cool. I look for, you know, kind of unusual shapes, you know, we've got these jellyfish shells that'll kind of like be exactly like jellyfish, you know, things of this nature, or you know, certain certain odd shapes, you know, certainly the stars, the boxes, the hearts, those are always kind of fun to see and do, and from a manufacturing perspective, they're very challenging to create and make, so that's the kind of stuff I really look for. I've been again around Pyro my whole life, and just your standard just burst in the air, you know? Those are obviously fun, and they're great, but I'm to the point now where it's really about the art and about creating stuff that that hasn't been seen before, or stuff that's very unusual or very unique, the stuff I don't like. What I don't like, I would say is probably just unnecessarily loud things, you know. And often in our community, how big can you make it? How big of a boom you could make it? Sometimes you'll hear the term in the community, thump junkies, you know, the people that just want to hear a big boom and a big flash, that's cool, you know, that's cool once or twice, but frankly, you know, it's kind of a waste of pyrotechnic composition when you can make something a little bit more flashy and a little bit more brilliant.
Nick VinZant 11:51
Hardest color to make, easiest color to make.
Steve Yoss 11:55
I'm not going to probably be able to answer this as succinctly as probably people who are more apt for manufacturing that could, with respect to colors, though I've often heard that getting a really good blue is difficult, and I think one of the easier colors to make is red, because there's several different ways I think you can get to red.
Nick VinZant 12:14
What show do pyrotechnicians like yourself like? What fireworks show do the people who really know consider the bet
Steve Yoss 12:22
from a production perspective. What I really enjoy is bringing that happiness and joy to the crowd. You know, you can't watch a firework show, not smile. You can't watch a firework show and not not point and ooh and ah, and that, that for me, as I've told people, you know, when we shoot that firework show for that 10 minutes, you know, I'm Mick Jagger, I'm Paul McCartney, I'm the guy who actually gets to bring that happiness to people, and then I get to fade and go back into my normal life, which is wonderful. Now, beyond that, though, to answer the other part of your question, as a pyro, what I really get excited for again are going to be these these membership-driven organizations, the WPA and PGI, because often at those events, and at winter blasts for the WPA or the PGI conference, that sense of being able to see that kind of one off, like it's so very, very awesome, because you know that firework, I mean, it's not like a piece of art that's going to Hagen Museum that will be there forever, it's every time they make it, it'll be a little bit different, it'll never be the same effect twice, and you get to witness this one little thing, and then if you're not there, it's gone. What I really love about pyrotechnics is the immediacy of it, you know, if you're not there, you missed it, and a firework will never do justice on a video recording or a picture, you might look okay, but like the what you'll see when you're actually there at these membership events where your buddy made that effect, I think to me is ruined. One of the things I really enjoy.
Nick VinZant 13:51
Have you ever been injured?
Steve Yoss 13:53
Thankfully, no. But I will point out I've also got years of experience and safety and training, and I'm very, very conscious of the safety side of this. I'll tell you again, growing up in this, and shooting pyro with my dad most of my life, I remember something he told me very, very, very young, and I've never forgot it. There are no second chances.
Nick VinZant 14:14
Biggest firework you've set off, most amount of fireworks you've set off.
Steve Yoss 14:19
In terms of size of fireworks, I routinely shoot large diameter shells. My Fourth of July show, which is for the city of Lake Elsinore, here in Southern California, our show features three inch to 10 inch. So, a 10 inch firework is largest routinely I work with, and we'll have a handful of those shells on our show, and I've been part of shows that have had larger shells, 16 inch shells, 20 inch shells, 20 twos, 20 fours, but those aren't ones that I've myself physically worked with, but I've been there, and when they go off, man, they are something to be seen, and it's important to note, with respect to shells, we're working in cubic space and the. Difference between, like, a 10 and 12 inch is almost 50% you know, in terms of cubic volume, it's bigger. So, as these kind of go up in diameter, they don't just - it's not a linear thing - they get like exponentially bigger, in terms of in all possible ways, in terms of burst, in terms of effects, in terms of everything, cost, you know, for that matter, as well. Now, in terms of most number of fireworks, my Fourth of July show on the for the city of Lake Elsinore, that'll end up having about 400 queues. So, a queue is like you hit it and something happens, and so we'll end up having 400 cues, and one queue could end up having multiple shots associated with doubles or triples or things of this nature. And I've worked on bigger shows than that, the Macy's Sports Is All I show, for example, in New York, each barge has 1000s and 1000s of fireworks on each one, and there's like six barges for that show.
Nick VinZant 15:51
Favorite show you've ever worked on,
Steve Yoss 15:53
for me, there's like certain memories, you know, that are very like, like stuck in my head that I can remember, that were like, oh my god, you know, like that was like for that time and place, like the coolest thing ever, and I've had the pleasure of working with my dad for all of these years. He's been a member of my crew since I've had my license, and you know, shows that in particular that kind of stick out in my mind for one reason or the other. First show I ever worked on was the Macy's Fourth of July show. I was 18, I was just graduated high school in May. My dad took me to New York. We worked on that show, and I remember standing on the barge, and I've been to firework shows forever, but it was the first time I'd ever worked a show, and I remember standing on that barge, and it's raining down the firework debris, you know, because you're shooting within the fallout zone. We, whenever we shoot a show, we know the perimeter in terms of like when the plyo is going to come down, and you're wearing a hard hat, and everything, just seeing these, these borders go off in such volume and frequency. I just remember I was hooked for life, you know. It was like, oh, in the smell of the sulfur, you know, the gunpowder that's going off. I was just like, this is this, I'm going to do this rest of my life. There's no question in my mind about it. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to do this forever. I'm also part of the group that does pyrotechnics at Burning Man every year, which is takes place as a large temporary city that's constructed outside of Reno, Nevada. And I've worked on that event for almost a decade now, and I remember the first time going and actually doing fire art with pyrotechnics at the same time, same thing, it was like, you know, just like this is outstanding, this is something I want to do forever.
Nick VinZant 17:26
When you're that close, is it different than what the audience would see?
Steve Yoss 17:32
Yeah, absolutely, for a couple of technical reasons, and I'll tell you the technical reason here, and then I'll tell you what it's like for me now when I'm working on a firework show, so when you're part of a crew, and I would encourage your listeners, if anybody's interested here, I mean, this is something normal people do. You know, I'm a normal person, I have a normal nine to five job, as do almost everybody in the profession. This is not something, call up your local display company, give me a ring, you know, and and you can come out, work on a show, anybody can, anybody can do this. In fact, there's a shortage of operators, a desperate shortage pretty much nationwide. If you look at most of the people in here, there's a lot of gray hair, and this is a very physically demanding job. And there is a huge need for a younger generation to step up and get their license and come stew to show we don't have enough operators to shoot the shows that we could possibly shoot. And the first thing you notice is that fireworks are in d most of the time. When you're watching a fireworks show, you've got the audience and you're standing in front of the actual pyro itself, but you're looking at it in the same way that somebody looks at a canvas and a museum, you know. And when you're at the firework site, you're seeing these things go off in that third dimension, which is vertical space, and it's kind of fun to actually see the vertical separation between some of these different fireworks that you just don't get when you're watching it, you know, 1000 feet away, you're just seeing it happen all in front of you, but when you're standing underneath it or next to it, you're seeing happening in another dimension that you just can't physically see, unless you're actually standing there, and you're also getting the impact of the actual firework going off itself, the thump, you know, there's a visible and an auditory and a kinetic thing when you're standing near this in that fireworks fallout zone operating that show, you got your hard hat on, you got your firework turnout on, you got your earplugs in, you're physically feeling these things go off, you know, they're going 1000s of feet per second, in some instances,
Nick VinZant 19:22
every Fourth of July, we always hear about fireworks shows where something goes wrong. What usually goes wrong, like what mistake do people make?
Steve Yoss 19:31
And there are certainly accidents that can occur, but a big instance where I see this is that culture, it's that safety, lack of safety mindset, and lack of professionalism with respect to producing these shows and allowing for that culture to, you know, come and create an environment where, like, a safety event can occur.
Nick VinZant 19:49
What is the new thing that's going to come out of fireworks shows? Like, do you think that drones could ever replace them?
Steve Yoss 19:56
I think it could be a great compliment to to a firework. Show, and they offer a different type of experience, you know, and they're a different tool, you know. Why do I have five different types of screwdrivers in my workshop, you know? Because I reach for the tool I need for the job that I want to do. Now, saying that, as somebody who likes drones and has shot shows that have included drones, personally I really like fireworks, and although I, as a technologist, I enjoy the technology behind this, and I think they're really cool with respect to what they do. I don't think it's a matter of replacement. It's really a compliment. It's, it's not an.. and it's.. it's an or. You can do both.
Nick VinZant 20:34
I want to thank Steven so much for joining us. If you want to connect with him, we have a link to him on our social media sites were Profoundly Pointless on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, and we've also included his information in the episode description. Okay, now let's bring in John Scholl and get to the pointless part of the show. If you could go back and give your younger self advice, what age would you go back and talk to yourself?
John Shull 21:04
Probably 2425 I'd say.
Nick VinZant 21:08
Ooh, I would go a little earlier. I would try to go back and talk to myself at 16 or 17. I feel like 2425 is too late in some circumstances. It is really odd to me that you basically have to make all the important decisions in your life way before you're actually ready to make them.
John Shull 21:27
I wish I could have told myself, like the biggest thing that no one ever told me, and that was basically just like, relax, like life's gonna be okay, like you don't have to, you don't have to rush towards one outcome when you want to do 50 other things, you know what I mean. If that makes any sense, I just relax, like things are going to be okay.
Nick VinZant 21:50
I feel like people who know what they want to do really on early on in life have a huge advantage, like a massive advantage if you kind of know from the beginning what you want to do. I don't think most people figure that out for a long time.
John Shull 22:07
I think from 18 to 25 is probably what most people would say.
Nick VinZant 22:12
Yeah, I think it needs to be earlier than that, though. I think you need to tell yourself with one or two years left of high school to really kind of set yourself on a path. The problem is I don't think that you're ready to listen. Do you think you would even listen to yourself?
John Shull 22:31
No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't have listened. It's funny, my wife and I say this joke all the time, that like if we had met any sooner, and we met in our mid 20s, if we had met any sooner, we wouldn't have been together. We were just different people watching different things, and I feel like that's the same, like when you're in high school, right? If you're an athlete, and maybe I'm speaking for myself, like you're like, 'Man, I'm gonna go play college sports, I'm gonna be a pro, but what's the reality is, you have no shot unless you're LeBron.
Nick VinZant 23:01
I think it depends on what you really are trying to go for. If you're trying to squeeze every inch out of something and maximize your potential as a person, I think you have to start on that really early. If you're kind of trying to just live a good happy life, then I think you can relax a little bit, and your priorities are always just going to change, like, what were you, what do you, what's more important to you, to find out what you're really capable of, or to live a happy life, and you have to go back and forth between the two of those. You don't get both.
John Shull 23:33
When did this become an introspective deep thinking podcast?
Nick VinZant 23:38
About eight years ago, you were just never paying attention.
John Shull 23:41
No, I always try to bring stuff up, and you did nothing but squash
Nick VinZant 23:45
talk about dad stuff. It's so hard to turn diapers.
John Shull 23:52
I mean, it's nobody wants to, nobody
Nick VinZant 23:54
cares about your kids. Nobody cares about my kids. No one cares about your kids. I don't care about other people's kid. No,
John Shull 24:01
I care about your kids.
Nick VinZant 24:02
Do you want to hear about, like, what my kids do on a daily basis? Like, is that interesting to you? Like, hey, guess what Riley did yesterday.
John Shull 24:10
I mean, if you were to send me a text or call me and be like, "Listen, man, I just just want to talk to you about my day, I probably be all right, cool. Like, that's what I'm here for. That's what friends are for.
Nick VinZant 24:20
Oh, I disagree. I believe that your friends are there to, like, give you shit and to check you in reality, and the reality is, like, dude, look, I, it, we have been friends for a very long time. I am not entirely sure of your children's names.
John Shull 24:39
That's fair. I mean,
Nick VinZant 24:41
Joe, it's Joanna.
John Shull 24:48
Wow, this is not entirely
Nick VinZant 24:52
sure what the other one's name is.
John Shull 24:53
That is kind of a bad friend move, but that's fine. Like, it's cool.
Nick VinZant 24:58
Do you know my kids' names?
John Shull 25:00
Yeah, I sure do.
Nick VinZant 25:02
It's Joanna's, but Joanne is the older one. What's the younger one?
John Shull 25:06
Miranda,
Nick VinZant 25:07
God, see, the problem is Melissa stuck in my mind, and I couldn't say
John Shull 25:13
it. I know my friend's children's names, I'm not.. I don't have an issue with that. I get caught up on the ages, like if you were to ask me the ages of your kids,
Nick VinZant 25:22
oh,
John Shull 25:23
I guarantee you I'm probably gonna be wrong. I'll be close, but I'll be wrong.
Nick VinZant 25:27
Okay, I think yours are five and seven,
John Shull 25:31
seven and six, close enough,
Nick VinZant 25:34
close enough, same, same, same difference. Could you guess mine?
John Shull 25:38
Eight and eight and six,
Nick VinZant 25:41
seven and nine, really seven and 10. So you don't know me any better than I do. You are, you are you slightly hurt that I didn't know your youngest child's name?
John Shull 25:51
No, I'm not hurt. I mean, I'm not hurt at all, for real. Like, I'm, I'm cool, like I'm not upset about
Nick VinZant 25:59
it. I don't know of any of the people that I know that I consider to be good friends who have children. I couldn't name any of their children. Yeah, I couldn't name any of their children.
John Shull 26:14
I mean, that's that is borderline like halfway bad friend, but that's that's whatever you want to do.
Nick VinZant 26:24
Well, you just say how your kids,
John Shull 26:27
yeah, but I mean, you know, when they're born, you know, like if you ever see them, the problem is we live 3000 miles away. It's not like my kids and your kids hang out all the time, you know, or or have ever interacted, because I mean, we just live that far apart, but, like, you know, Facebook, social media, talking to you, you know, but we don't really talk about our children's names on the podcast, because of whatever reasons, like,
Nick VinZant 26:54
yeah, you don't bring up the name of your children, you just say my youngest, my oldest,
John Shull 26:58
yeah, like I'm cool, like, yeah, that doesn't make or break a friendship for me. If, if someone doesn't know my kids' names, I'm.. that's fine.
Nick VinZant 27:09
Okay? You kind of look like..
John Shull 27:11
don't you?
Nick VinZant 27:12
I do know your mother-in-law's name. I do know your mother in law's name. How many boxes of wine did she put down this weekend? Three,
John Shull 27:20
three, and three and a half nights, and I say it was a half a night, because she killed like a 12 pack of White Claws or Trulys or something.
Nick VinZant 27:34
The amazing thing to me about that kind of stuff is I think that I live a fairly healthy lifestyle, and also regularly exercise and take care of myself, and I can't say that I feel great on a day to day basis. I do not know how people who don't take care of themselves are even alive, like if you're 60, drinking three boxes of wine a week, like how
John Shull 27:57
73
Nick VinZant 27:58
how are you even alive?
John Shull 28:01
You know what's. I don't want to turn this into my mother-in-law podcast, but she really is a specimen, because not only did she do that, she's.. she also is.. she's on a GLP one, and she's lost 200 no, 165 pounds.
Nick VinZant 28:18
Dang, that's a
John Shull 28:20
Sunday. She does the shot, and then within five hours is drinking Trulys or White Claws. I'm like, I don't know if that's what you're supposed to do, but that's what she did.
Nick VinZant 28:34
This goes back, I think, to the conversation that we started at the very beginning. Is there is a huge difference between what it takes to optimize something versus just to keep it going,
John Shull 28:47
I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, you're, I mean, she's 73 right? I mean, you know, without being too negative, you know, the she's in our twilight years, and I think she's just doing what she wants to do, now, mind you, if I, if I see 73 which probably isn't going to happen, but if I do, like I would hope that I'm able to walk and move in, you know, things like that, but just based upon the person, I guess.
Nick VinZant 29:17
Oh, when I'm no longer able to really do the things that I want to do, I'm going to drop dead. My family has a long history of that, of being really healthy, and then something happens, and then they just drop dead two weeks later. Like, nope, I'm done, which is the way it should be. Don't be lingering forever.
John Shull 29:36
I just hope you and I reunite in whatever's out there after, and just keep our friendship alive.
Nick VinZant 29:48
Still won't know kids' names.
John Shull 29:51
I mean, I won't know your kids' ages well. Now you told me, so I know them. But
Nick VinZant 29:55
what were they?
John Shull 29:56
10 and seven, seven
Nick VinZant 29:58
and nine.
John Shull 30:00
Oh, see,
Nick VinZant 30:01
already got it.
Nick VinZant 30:02
Okay,
John Shull 30:02
yeah. All right, let's give some shout outs here to people that I do know their names, and I won't remember them after I say them, but here we go. Meredith McDaniel Hendricks, hole.. I like Hendrix.
Nick VinZant 30:17
I know a couple of Hendrix is actually.. I know three Hendrix is,
John Shull 30:23
are they, are they male or females? I only asked because this, when I was profiles, this is a woman, Hendrix.
Nick VinZant 30:32
I could see it, I could see it, but I would think that is more of a male name, but I could see a female being named that, kind of like Logan, Logan is more of a male name, but I can see a woman being named Logan,
John Shull 30:46
I can't, but we'll move on. Emery Rush, Malaya Moon Boone Schwartz. Oh my god, that almost reminded me of a certain Dave Alianna Welch Welch, Andy Branch, Keenan Sexton, and Jillian Cantoris.
Nick VinZant 31:10
Okay, okay.
John Shull 31:12
Well, I tried not to be too depressed while looking at current event topics, but it's all depressing. So, we might as well just start with the I think that I think there was two big events this past week, excuse me, the first one was, you know, we have a trillionaire now, we have an official trillionaire in the world,
Nick VinZant 31:33
that to me is obscene, I do not understand how someone with billions of dollars can live with themselves. To me, that's like walk, going to the grocery store, and you see people who are struggling. Some people don't even have food, and you walk out with just half of the store. That I don't, I don't think I could live with myself. If I had that much money, I would feel so guilty and ashamed to have taken so much from other people. It's obscene.
John Shull 32:10
I mean, I agree with you. I think it's terrible. I, I'm on the, I'm on the fence here, because part of it, part of me is like, man, you know, people have done studies like he's, he's a trillionaire, right? If he gave $5 billion to the world, it would solve world hunger, but he won't, because the rich don't give anything, really. My other part of that is, is like, he doesn't shop, he doesn't know what, what he doesn't know anything in terms of, like, he doesn't go to Kroger or Meijer or CVS and see people struggling, you know? When he drives, he doesn't care about people standing on the side of the road, like I'm not saying he's a bad person in a sense, but like he doesn't understand, he doesn't know what life is like, he's a trillionaire, he literally could lose $500 billion and he would still be richer than 99% of the world.
Nick VinZant 33:10
That to me is why it's just an obscene thing, and that because you don't get to that amount of money by earning it, you get to that amount of money by holding other people down by taking from other people, like I don't understand how you could sit there with a billion dollars in your bank account and then lay off other people, or to say, you know what, not going to give you this 2% raise, like I don't, I think that you have to have a total moral lack of character to get to that point, and not see other people as people.
John Shull 33:47
Yeah, I mean, you all, I mean, my wife, God bless her, I'm not sure what this has to do with anything, but it's kind of interesting. Like, just look at what he named his children, like that's not normal. I don't even remember what they are, but it's like a bunch of, you know, a minus x equals space bar, like, like clearly he's not, not on, you know, not in touch with reality, though that's hard for me to really justify, because feel like you have to be in touch with some kind of reality to keep making billions of dollars,
Nick VinZant 34:22
I think you have to see people as essentially like computer inputs, like they are not people, they are math equations, and I also think it's fascinating, the sense is that you have the person who has a trillion dollars and he still ain't happy.
John Shull 34:36
Yeah, I mean, I, yeah, that's a whole, that's a whole other topic. I don't think the rich people are truly happy. No,
Nick VinZant 34:46
no. And I think that's why they devote so much time to making money, is because they think, well, like, maybe I can just, if I make more money, maybe I will get to this point, or at least, if I have all of this money, I can justify. The decisions that ultimately did this, like, no, I don't have a relationship with my children, but I did that, I don't, because I made $20 billion and you don't, and I think the idea is like, we don't need them, I'm totally, I think I think it is obscene to have that amount of money.
John Shull 35:17
Well, I saw this, and I thought this was interesting, and once again it's not really funny, but that SpaceX now accounts for half of the aerospace and defense sector, which you know, if you go back and look at it, I mean, that's what him and President Trump said they were going to do, so here we are, so really we're to blame, the people are to blame, the people are to blame,
Nick VinZant 35:41
but the thing that I also don't understand is that if somebody is worth that amount of money or has that much money, like, how much money do they actually have in their bank account?
John Shull 35:51
Well, and that's the other thing, is you're correct on that, right? Yeah, he might have that in assets, but how much, how much liquid does he actually have right? I mean, I'm sure he still has billions and billions, but
Nick VinZant 36:05
I would think so.
John Shull 36:07
I, what is after a trillionaire? Do you know? I'm not smart enough to know. Oh,
Nick VinZant 36:11
I think it's like a quadrillion, a quadrillion.
John Shull 36:14
Do you think we're ever going to see that in our lifetime?
Nick VinZant 36:17
Only if we have massive, massive inflation. I think, though, that there is some statistical analysis that even though that he is worth this much, if you did it based on the price of inflation, he's still not technically the richest person ever. I think there's some people who are like, but this was like kings back in the day,
John Shull 36:36
yeah, you know, like the
Nick VinZant 36:37
Sultan of whatever, who owned, yeah, I think he's still not the overall wealthiest person, but it's just like I would be embarrassed and ashamed if I had that much money.
John Shull 36:53
Oh, well, Elon, we'll give you our address if you want to make a check payable too. We'll be fine, just
Nick VinZant 36:58
checking Venmo, dude, it's 2026
John Shull 37:02
Yeah, right. Let's see, the other big event, and I don't even know how to describe this, was the White House UFC event, which, you know, I mean, as so I don't watch all of it, but as an event, I mean, you know, they had real fighters, like it was a sanctioned UFC event. I forget one of the guys' names. I think Hockett. Have you ever heard of a UFC fighter?
Nick VinZant 37:28
I could honestly not name you a single UFC fighter. I mean, I could historically, yeah, I could, but current fighter today I couldn't name you a single one.
John Shull 37:38
Well, this guy, I believe one is Matt, and I, this was kind of like the stamp of, like, yeah, this administration is dumb. So, anyway, so the guy wins, I think, and he's he's known as kind of a rebel in the in the UFC world. They're interviewing him, he's saying some really stupid shit, he's not getting a reaction from the crowd, and then he ends with going and Michelle Obama is a man and like he gets no reaction, like puts his hands up and walks away, and I'm like, and mind you, you know we know what this administration is, but like to my knowledge, no one came out after and was like, "Oh man, that was a really bad thing to say, like we don't condone it, like instead it's just like, yeah, he was on the White House lawn, just fought, said Michelle Obama's a man, and like, that's all people remember from the event.
Nick VinZant 38:29
My, I didn't see any of it, but I can imagine what it looked like in my head, and I don't imagine it looked like class,
John Shull 38:42
I mean, the only reason why it looked like class, it was like a, like a FIFA World Cup group stage match between Senegal and Iraq, where you know neither of those teams are traveling, their fans are not traveling, but yet there's still 55,000 people in the stadium,
Nick VinZant 38:59
like, where
John Shull 39:00
did they get those people from, like, blah blah blah, like, yeah, there was people there, but they were either the elites or they were people that were cheering everything that I don't think had an idea, you know, yeah, it was just gaudy, man, like, I don't know how else to say it, like, it was just gaudy,
Nick VinZant 39:17
yeah, I can picture it, was something that I did not realize is that most of either people, when you see people in the front rows of events, whether that's like sporting events or concerts, they're usually paid people, like they specifically staff, like there's organizations that specifically staff of big events with like paid act, not actors necessarily, but like paid people to put them there,
John Shull 39:45
seat fillers, essentially, right? Seat fillers,
Nick VinZant 39:47
right? Like, they.. it's not normal people who are in those events, like, oh no, those are paid, like, there's corporations that do that. I did not realize that,
John Shull 39:58
yeah, that you know, it's. I thought it was going to be like the weekend of 250 I didn't realize, like, it's a whole month and a half, and then after a month and a half of just events, like, it just.. it was, yeah, you know, presidents, American presidents have done some pretty crazy things, but President Trump, I think it's going to be up there when it's all said and done,
Nick VinZant 40:21
I do not. As a history major, you can believe whatever you want to believe. We don't get into politics on this show, but history will not treat him kindly. It will not.
John Shull 40:33
Yeah, will not. Anyways, those were the two big ones. Obviously, I don't know if you, if you want to talk at all about the World Cup, you don't have to, but you had the privilege of going to a group stage game, Belgium
Nick VinZant 40:48
versus Egypt,
John Shull 40:49
and it was cool. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's insane. Oh, one other thing, now that I'm thinking about it, not that you care at all, but the, you know, how you always shit on sports, like, yeah, hockey, baseball, this and that. So, the ratings came out, the NBA finals and the NHL finals were basically roughly the same time. The NHL finals averaged 1.6 million viewers a game. NBA was over 20 million per game. Now, mind you, they were, I think, they were on like ABC, you could watch them locally, hockey was on ESPN, which obviously you need a subscription for, but just that's that's a crazy discrepancy, and the NBA Finals averaged more than the United States first game did for soccer and the World Cup, I think that game averaged 16 million, so just kind of to show you know, basketball, basketball kind of an NFL does double what basketball does sometimes, so
Nick VinZant 41:53
yeah. Well, and that's what's interesting to me, is that last year was that how the NBA is declining and all that stuff. I do think that was a little bit of an aberration, and that you had the biggest media market, people were really interested in New York Knicks, and then you had Victor Wembanyama, who a lot of people wanted to see. So, I think it'll be really like, okay, what's next year like? That was definitely a tune-in thing. Nobody cares about soccer. I couldn't even.. I don't even know who played in the Stanley Cup Finals. I don't even know,
John Shull 42:21
Vegas and Carolina,
Nick VinZant 42:25
oh, two, definitely two cities famous for their hockey.
John Shull 42:28
I mean, Vegas has, has won it, I think they've been around for eight years, they've won it twice, like a lot of people
Nick VinZant 42:35
in Vegas playing hockey, though. Outdoor rinks,
John Shull 42:39
yeah, Vegas is about to get a baseball team. They have a football team, like, you know, we have made Vegas, you know, we've made Vegas a sports city, which, yeah, I still don't think of Vegas as a sports city, but well, it's a much
Nick VinZant 42:53
bigger sports city than Detroit is. Better sports city than Detroit is, they have championships,
John Shull 42:59
well well, as well. I'm glad you had fun. I'm, I'm considering making the four hour drive near a city that's hosting one, but tickets aren't going down, so we'll, we'll see if I do that.
Nick VinZant 43:14
We got pretty lucky, so I'm comfortable sharing it, like we paid 300 a ticket, so the whole thing cost me $1,200 because we didn't care what game that we went to, so
John Shull 43:29
but you saw two world class teams, like it's not like you saw, like I said earlier, Senegal and Iraq, which, by the way, they're all world class athletes, like not to say that those athletes from those teams aren't good, but like you saw Belgium and Egypt, like they are top-tier teams.
Nick VinZant 43:46
It is a boring game to watch, but when something does start to happen, it is very much like, oh,
John Shull 43:57
and then they shoot it 40 feet over the bar, right? And you're like, oh, okay, yeah, I have a question. Yeah, I have a question, and you can, though, you have to answer this, because it's not personal, but it talks about money, but, like, concession-wise, our, the prices for concessions compared to
Nick VinZant 44:12
ridiculous,
John Shull 44:14
compared to, like, a right, like a sports, like a Seattle Seahawks game.
Nick VinZant 44:18
Oh, yeah, so I will compare it to a Mariners game, which we've been to recently. Mariners games, you're going to be looking, you can get tickets for like 10 bucks if they're, it's, you know, dead of the summer and they're playing a team that nobody cares about. You're usually looking about 10 to $30 a ticket, and Mariners are super, super big on families, so they actually have like a cheap menu where you can get hot dogs for 499 like you can actually get full lunch at a Mariners game for 15 bucks. The price of concessions, I paid $70 for two hot. Dogs a drink and a pizza, and what killed me about it was that people working the concession stands are all volunteers. FIFA is the biggest racket that I have ever heard of in my life.
John Shull 45:16
I mean, yeah, I mean it's pretty known that them in the NCAA are, you know, notoriously the worst in the world, but $70 was the, was the pizza, at least like a large pizza, the
Nick VinZant 45:30
one of the, no, I mean, it was, it was decent enough, you'd be like, okay, that's a decent sized slice, but one of the hot dogs that we got was like, oh, that's borderline and edible, like it was clearly burnt,
John Shull 45:40
my God, man, $70
Nick VinZant 45:43
that's ridiculous. The tickets I was okay with, the concession prices I was pissed off about.
John Shull 45:48
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and then they do these hydration breaks now. Well, they don't, it's not, but you know, Fox has done it now to where they go to commercial break, and that was one of the things I think a lot of the die-hards like about soccer and hockey is that they're fast sports, like they don't stop, and now, like, they, you know, and I think it was like $25 million an ad or something for ad time during this hydration, hydration breaks, like,
Nick VinZant 46:15
oh yeah, oh, people in the stadium were kind of, I mean, I don't really have a problem with giving athletes water.
John Shull 46:23
No, no, I mean, they don't. I don't either, but like I guess money
Nick VinZant 46:30
off of it is ridiculous. Yeah,
John Shull 46:31
like Telemundo on them, like they don't cut to commercial breaks, and maybe it's because they couldn't sell ads, which I'm sure that's not the case, but they don't cut to commercial break to, you know, fucking rocket mortgage or Allstate commercials.
Nick VinZant 46:46
Now, are you ready to go to our top five? I mean, do this forever. Sorry, let's go,
John Shull 46:50
let's do it.
Nick VinZant 46:51
So our top five is top five actors and actresses that we know who they are, but we don't know their names, so I'm not entirely sure how we're going to do this, because if some people are going to say names of people we don't know who they are, but let's just go with it, okay? Who's your number five?
John Shull 47:10
So I actually have a pretty good list, and I think people are gonna be like, oh yeah, I know who I know who that is now. So my number five is Liev Schreiber.
Nick VinZant 47:22
Oh, I don't agree with you on that one.
John Shull 47:26
I don't agree.
Nick VinZant 47:27
He is the guy who was saber tooth in some of the Wolverine movies. He was in Ray Donovan, Ray Donovan, that's the name. He's, yeah, the
John Shull 47:37
narrator for the NFL show on HBO, the one that goes like through training camp, can't remember the name, Hard Knock,
Nick VinZant 47:46
Hard Knocks, yeah,
John Shull 47:47
but like I don't know, I, I know him best as like he was in the original Screen movie, like yeah, he was the original, he wasn't the bad guy, he was like the, the air quote bad guy, but yeah, so I'm comfortable with putting him as my number five. I, if you think that's controversial, I have some names at the top that I think you're going to be like that doesn't make any sense.
Nick VinZant 48:13
Okay, the one thing that amazes me about Lee Schreiber is that I never understand how it's that's his voice narrated, yeah,
John Shull 48:22
right, yeah.
Nick VinZant 48:23
I'm always like, that's not him. It didn't sound like him,
John Shull 48:27
crazy, but it is.
Nick VinZant 48:30
My number five is Richard Jenkins,
John Shull 48:34
okay, Step Brothers.
Nick VinZant 48:35
He's the dad from Step Brothers,
John Shull 48:39
okay? Yeah, okay. Probably another actor who's been, he's been in a ton of stuff, but like, you don't know his name,
Nick VinZant 48:49
don't know, have no idea. Like, I had to look up that his name was Richard Jenkins, but I was like, Who is that guy? Okay, so number four,
John Shull 48:57
uh, William Finkter,
Nick VinZant 49:00
no idea,
John Shull 49:02
men. In all, I mean, he's been a what's what's what do you call it, not an accommodate actor, like he's been, he's been in 50 major motion pictures, but he's always been like a secondary actor, but like when you see him, you're like, oh yeah, that's William Fictor. Like, he was an Armageddon. He was one of the main pilots in Armageddon. He was in that movie, George Clooney. Yeah, I just looked like,
Nick VinZant 49:30
yeah, he's been a ton of stuff. He was last
John Shull 49:34
name is amazing, Finter,
Nick VinZant 49:37
Finter way too close to Sphincter. I would have changed that if I was him. Guarantee that guy was just named Fink, or the Sphincter, at some point,
John Shull 49:46
probably. Yeah, if
Nick VinZant 49:47
he hears this, his eyes are twitching. Uh, my number four is Keith David Dead, American fiction.
John Shull 49:58
I mean, I know who that is. I could see why a lot of people don't, for sure.
Nick VinZant 50:03
He's like, oh, that guy. Okay, okay. Number three,
John Shull 50:07
Peter Stormare, and once again, guy who's been in a tons of stuff, but most famously, probably he was the bad guy in Fargo, the movie from the early 90s, like the Russian hit man.
Nick VinZant 50:24
Oh, I know who you're talking about.
John Shull 50:27
Yeah, so
Nick VinZant 50:27
he's been in a lot of stuff then.
John Shull 50:30
Yeah, I know about his appearance, like you know, he always speaks with, like, an Eastern European accent, and most of his roles, like, you just know who he
Nick VinZant 50:41
is. I think that he was the devil in Constantine, too. I think that's the guy that I'm thinking about. My number three, also from Fargo, John Carroll Lynch was in Fargo, Zodiac, Drew Carey show. He was in
John Shull 51:00
familiar,
Nick VinZant 51:01
you will, as soon as you see this picture, be like, "Oh, that guy, John Carroll. Yeah,
John Shull 51:10
yeah, yeah, he was a.. yeah,
Nick VinZant 51:15
yeah,
John Shull 51:15
that's a good, that's a good one.
Nick VinZant 51:17
I really thought about putting him up at number
John Shull 51:21
one. That's a pretty good one.
Nick VinZant 51:22
If people at home who aren't watching this, we'll put a picture up for people who watch this, but if you're just listening to it, look up John Carroll Lynch, and your reaction will be like, "Oh, that guy,
John Shull 51:33
that's funny. All right, my number two is Michael Pena.
Nick VinZant 51:39
Oh, I think he was.. what was he in? I think I know who you're talking about.
John Shull 51:44
I mean, he was in Crash. He was in that 911 movie with Nicholas Cage, World Trade Center. He was in The Martian. He was an Ant-Man.
Nick VinZant 51:53
Yeah, I know he's about,
John Shull 51:54
like, but you know, he's.. he's obviously Latino, so he plays a lot of the Latino stereotype characters. But, like, yeah, he's another guy. When you look him up, you're like, "Oh, Michael Pena. I, of course, I know who he
Nick VinZant 52:06
is. I, I would almost say that's either the perfect number two or you're pushing it a little bit. People would know who he is.
John Shull 52:15
That's fair.
Nick VinZant 52:17
My number two is Dean Winters.
John Shull 52:21
Yes, man, I only.. I know Dean Winters because I remember watching a show he was first in called Oz on HBO back in the late 90s, but now he's
Nick VinZant 52:32
the mayhem guy for Allstate, I think.
John Shull 52:36
Yeah, he's Mayhem for sure. Yeah, without a doubt.
Nick VinZant 52:40
He was a bigger act, but I haven't seen him in anything since he started to me. Just collect that check, and he's like, "Good enough, man.
John Shull 52:47
Like,
Nick VinZant 52:49
after.. Oh, who's your..
John Shull 52:51
So I went old school with my number one, but when I say the name, it'll jar everyone, but my number one is Eric Roberts. Hold on,
Nick VinZant 53:06
that's why it's a good number one. If I'm like, who the hell is Eric Roberts?
John Shull 53:10
So, before I bring up a photo of him, you're a Batman guy. He was the bank manager in The Dark Knight. Do you remember that? He's, you see, that there's a coming through.
Nick VinZant 53:21
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay,
John Shull 53:25
yeah.
Nick VinZant 53:26
What else was he? Do you remember anything else?
John Shull 53:29
Well, he was the mask back in the, in the, in the late 80s. Remember that movie, The Mask?
Nick VinZant 53:34
Yeah, he was always kind of a traditional bad guy.
John Shull 53:38
Yeah, and he's, he's done a tons of music videos as well, from the killers to rap videos. He's just always been around. He was like, Who is that creepy looking guy? Well, now you know his name's Eric Roberts.
Nick VinZant 53:50
My number one, I don't know how you're gonna feel about this, because she might be too big, and that's why I put her at number one, because, like, oh, she's a big actress, she's the biggest of all these people. Olivia Coleman, Hot Fuzz, she was one of the cops in Hot Fuzz, she was in broad shirts, she was the crown, she's English, always plays like English people.
John Shull 54:17
So, here's the thing, I, I wouldn't give you shit about this, even three years ago, but she did the crown, and then she did something right after that, where she won a bunch of awards, but you, but you take away the last three years, like, I, you know, I still, when you said the name, I had to think for a second, like, so,
Nick VinZant 54:36
right, yeah,
John Shull 54:37
I'm cool with it,
Nick VinZant 54:38
you might know her name, but you do have to think a little bit more than other actresses of her level, and that's why I went with her as number one. She's like, oh, she's.. oh no, she's really famous. Who else do you have? Do you have anybody else in your honorable mention?
John Shull 54:55
Well, a couple of the controversial ones I put on there for my honorable mention, James Matt. Kavoy.
Nick VinZant 55:01
Oh no, I know exactly who that is. No, I disagree with you on that one,
John Shull 55:07
Judy Greer. If you're familiar with her, no,
Nick VinZant 55:11
don't know that one.
John Shull 55:13
And then these ones I just put on and cross them off, because I was like, I think people know who these are, but Joaquin Phoenix,
Nick VinZant 55:21
yeah. What? No,
John Shull 55:22
yeah,
Nick VinZant 55:24
Joaquin, yeah. Isn't he.. wait, is he the one who's dead or is he the one who's alive?
John Shull 55:32
He's alive, but he's..
Nick VinZant 55:33
he was in Gladiator. He's gladiator.
John Shull 55:35
He was the.. oh no, that's
Nick VinZant 55:37
way too big. That's way too big.
John Shull 55:40
All right. Well, then I won't even go into the other two I put on there, because I know I wanted
Nick VinZant 55:44
to. I want to hear with your other two terrible Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks on there,
John Shull 55:49
Brennan Fraser.
Nick VinZant 55:52
You're God. Thank God you scratch these off. Those are ridiculous.
John Shull 55:56
Keanu Reeves,
Nick VinZant 55:58
everybody knows who Keanu Reeves is people know,
John Shull 56:04
but
Nick VinZant 56:04
now, now, if Keanu Reeves had a much more boring name, would people still know who he is? That to me is a big question. If his name was like Tom Jenkins,
John Shull 56:17
sort of boring neighbor you as Tom Jenkins,
Nick VinZant 56:21
well, if you look, the people that we don't know do have kind of boring names, like Richard Jenkins, Keith David. Yeah, Keen Phoenix is a much different name. The only one that I had that you didn't have was Steven Tobolowski. That's yes, it is. If you look it up, you'd be like, "Oh, that guy, he was the annoying character in Groundhog Day. Generally kind of an annoying doofus guy.
John Shull 56:53
True, both
Nick VinZant 56:54
Steven. Oh, yeah, okay,
John Shull 56:56
yeah, yeah. The glasses are what get me. If you look up, you'll know exactly why Nick has him on his honor. Mention,
Nick VinZant 57:06
okay? That's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. We really, yeah, appreciate it. I don't know, my, you have your mind just completely blank like that, like no, it just, it just checked straight out on me. But we do really appreciate any rating or review you can give us, really helps out the show. And let us know who you think are some of the biggest actors and actresses that you know who they are, but you just don't know their name.