Sociologist Dr. Linuz Peitz studies the psychology that drives Soccer (Football) Hooligans. He says the rising tide of soccer violence is all about one thing, territory.
In this episode of Profoundly Pointless we take an indepth look at Soccer (Football) Hooligans.
We talk the psychology behind hooliganism, the most dangerous Firms/Ultras, places that aren't safe to go and how Hooligans will impact the World Cup.
Then, in the Pointless part of the show, we countdown the Top 5 Life Lessons We Learned the Hard Way
00:00 Introducing Soccer Violence Researcher Dr. Linus Petiz
01:11 What Drives Soccer (Football) Hooligans
04:08 Hooligans and Soccer Violence
07:33 Soccer (Football) Hooligans and Organized Crime
10:16 The Most Dangerous Soccer (Football) Firms / Ultras
11:14 Joining a Firm / Ultra
12:34 Where Soccer Violence is the Worst
13:25 Soccer Hooligans and the World Cup
14:41 Pointless
35:26 Top 5 Life Lessons We Learned the Hard Way
Interview with Soccer (Football) Violence Researcher Dr. Linus Peitz
Nick VinZant 0:12
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick Vinzant. Coming up in this episode, soccer hooligans and lessons we learned the hard way
Speaker 1 0:22
it can happen outside the stadiums before games, unrelated to games as well, like groups can meet and can become violent, so you have some of these, these football rivalries that go back hundreds of years, and they're often intertwined with political rivalries, religious rivalries, Serbia, that they have ultras groups who are known, have known ties to organized crime.
Nick VinZant 0:49
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it, really helps us out. So I want to get right to our first guest, because with the World Cup fast approaching, he studies something that's incredibly relevant. This is soccer violence researcher Linus Pites. What is a soccer hooligan? A
Speaker 1 1:13
broad definition would be anyone who'd be involved in soccer-related violence or disorder, and it can involve like an organized component, so you can think of organized fan groups in Europe, often we refer to them as firms, ultras, but you find them all over the world.
Nick VinZant 1:31
I live in the United States, and as somebody who lives here, like this is something that is completely unfamiliar to me. Is this just kind of the equivalent of fans fighting in the stands at an American football game, like we see here, or is this something different?
Speaker 1 1:49
Organized fan groups against each other, quite violent, quite extensive. It can be with the police, you might see riot police in stadiums trying to separate groups, so it can be a lot more severe than just some random people getting drunk and fighting. It can happen outside the stadiums before games, unrelated to games as well, like groups can meet and can become violent. But, so, yeah, it's.. I think it.. you don't have that in the US, from my.. from my understanding.
Nick VinZant 2:19
Yeah, here it generally kind of tends to be people will get in a fight at a game, but it's usually because somebody was being a jerk, somebody spilled a beer on somebody else. It's not usually related to the game itself. Is hooliganism is that more confined to, like, no, this is related to the sporting event that is happening,
Speaker 1 2:42
it is more related to the game itself and to the meaning of game. It's often also related to territory, so you have some of these football rivalries that go back hundreds of years, and they're often intertwined with political rivalries, religious rivalries. So, if you think, for example, of in Scotland, the old firm between the two Glasgow teams, like one team stands Celtic versus Rangers, that's a, that's a representation also of a religious conflict. So there is much more than just about, it's much more than about just 90 minutes of football
Nick VinZant 3:17
here. When there's something that kind of breaks out before the game, or in the game, it's much more isolated to just a couple of people. Is hooliganism, I guess, is that more widespread, like it's not just Bob versus Tom, it's this group against this group.
Speaker 1 3:35
It has a, yeah, it has a strong group component. Obviously, no one wants to back down, so it's a football, is still like soccer in Europe, is still a very masculine environment in the stadiums as well, so as the sort of group notes that you have about aggression, risk taking, showing dominance, values of bravery, not backing down if the other group tries to intimidate you, you, you, and your fellow fans, you stand together, and if there's a fight happening, you, you don't run away.
Nick VinZant 4:08
When we talk about hooliganism slash soccer violence, like, what kind of acts are we generally talking
Nick VinZant 4:14
about?
Speaker 1 4:15
Can be pretty much anything on a spectrum, from deadly interactions, there have been stabbings. If you Google hooliganism and stabbings, you will find every year instances of fans traveling abroad and horrible things happening, sometimes deadly clashes, just fights, fist fights between fans, between fans and police stewards, throwing objects onto pictures using fireworks, yeah, which can lead to matches being abandoned, intimidation, hurling abuse, which can include racist abuse, which can also lead to matches being abandoned. So it's a very broad spectrum from. Physical violence, extreme physical violence, more into sort of disorder, and then intimidation and harm, or rule violations on the on the softer end of the spectrum.
Nick VinZant 5:11
I'm a big numbers person. If we were kind of gonna quantify this as like a problem, 10 is the highest, one is the lowest. Like, where does this kind of sit in terms of a problem you're at sporting events
Speaker 1 5:26
that depends very much on who you're going to ask, so if and where you're going to ask that question, so there is no global trend for this sort of problem. I think every country has its own, or every region has its own status in that sort of thing, so obviously the UK is famous for its hooliganism problem in the, in the 80s and 90s, and we've kind of gone past this a little bit, so it's much more controlled environments now, especially in the, in the top level leagues. Um, in other countries, there's less control, and it's much more common for things to escalate,
Nick VinZant 6:02
you know, the impression that I have, at least the United States, and completely from movies, right? Is it's this firm against this firm, and they're gonna both meet outside of the stadium and stand their ground, like, is that a real thing that happens, or is like, that's movies?
Speaker 1 6:18
Yes, I mean, it is, that can happen, and, but it's rare, I think, especially when you talk about violence that organizes police and the public care about. I mean, if two rival fan groups decide to meet up in the field outside of, I don't know, the day before the game, and beat the hell out of each other for, I don't know, an hour, then no one really cares, I think this actually exists, that people film themselves like meeting up and organizing these sort of battles before, but that's not really what most people, when they think about containing potential disorder and violence at games, what they think about, at least in most European countries that it can happen, so that it can happen that if there's a riot, two rival groups, and one has to come travel all the way to the other stadium, they have to take a certain route to the stadium with police protection, and the other fans are waiting for them near the stadium and are trying to agitate or trying to start something, something that this can can happen and happens, but then it's obviously up to the organizers to anticipate and not let it happen, isn't in the movies where it's basically a free for all and everyone just goes nuts. That's kind of exactly who you want to avoid.
Nick VinZant 7:33
For the people who are in the more organized segments of this, are they also generally involved in other kind of criminal behavior or they just, this guy's an accountant during the week, and on Saturdays he's out there fighting outside of the stadium.
Speaker 1 7:49
You will have both. You will have people who absolutely change when they go to football for them. This is an outlet of things they can't do during the during the day job, and who you would never think that they would be part of such a group like that, and then you have obviously people, yeah, there are elements in organized football groups that have been associated with either some criminal elements or extreme political ideologies, right-wing ideologies, I think there's some clubs in Germany that have issues with that, where fan groups are under observation from the state for knowingly, I don't know, showing Nazi salutes, stuff like that. You have the same issue in Italy, there's a lot of, like, there's their fan groups who are openly fascist, Serbia. There they have ultra groups who are known, have known ties to organized the crime, and yeah, you have the way you deal with that, then obviously becomes a lot more tricky, and how you assess the risk, how you can manage these sort of fan groups when they clash?
Nick VinZant 9:03
How did the kind of, how does the general public feel about this? Are they against it, or do they kind of secretly support it a little bit? Are they more just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe these guys are ruining this game? Are they kind of like, yeah, stick it to them?
Speaker 1 9:19
I mean, I don't think anyone likes violence. I think it's pretty much universally condoned by other fans. Having said that, up until the point where it gets violent, ultras and organized fan groups are also doing a lot for the atmosphere, so they are really important in the stadiums. They are organizing choreographies, which look amazing. They're organizing chants. They are generally responsible for a large proportion of the good atmosphere, which is something that sells as part of the product, right? Even the organizers need people to create a good atmosphere, so it's kind of a balancing. Act, you know, you want, you want there to be a prickly atmosphere in the stadium, that's, that's amazing, that feels good, that gets you to the edge, but you don't obviously don't want it to then turn violent.
Nick VinZant 10:12
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?
Speaker 1 10:15
Uh, yeah, sure.
Nick VinZant 10:16
Where would you say that, like, right now it's the worst?
Speaker 1 10:20
Anecdotally, you will see it in the news, and you will hear the stories of France has had in Europe. France has had issues since COVID started. They had multiple matches abandoned due to pitch invasions, bottles thrown at players, threats of intimidation, and that usually doesn't happen in top leagues. So, that was has been a big issue in France. There are countries that struggle, as I mentioned earlier, like Indonesia, has had issues over the last 20 years, really with football-related violence, stabbings, but then you can find it really everywhere, like if you, if you Google just in Europe, at least, hooligans and stabbings, or football fans and stabbings. You will find something very quickly from this year, from last year. Yeah, it's not one particular place. It's usually like intense rivalries, or yeah,
Nick VinZant 11:14
How does somebody get into a firm? Is this like a formal thing where you're accepted into it, or you just kind of go along with the crowd.
Speaker 1 11:22
I know people who are like members of organized fan groups. You kind of have to, like, some of them are organized like clubs, almost like fan clubs. So, there will be, I don't know, some sort of structure internally that's bit more formalized. For others, it will be more if you go to the stadium, there's a specific section where they stand, that is their section, and if you stand there, you have to either know someone or get to know someone to be allowed to stand there. So, kind of like encroach on their territory, and then have to kind of, yeah, you have to be accepted into the group.
Nick VinZant 11:54
What firms generally have the worst reputation?
Speaker 1 11:57
The Balkan states in Europe have some very fierce old trust groups, and they are linked. There's a lot of national identity, a lot of, a lot of direct connections to the civil wars. So, people who fought in the civil wars are represented in these sort of organized fan groups. So, these are people that are pretty tough, like it. That's not like someone who's pretending necessarily. So, if you have these sort of elements in certain groups, then you're probably a bit more wary about, yeah, interacting with maybe other fans.
Nick VinZant 12:38
Yeah, I mean, does it rise to the level in some places, where, like, oh, you better be careful going over there.
Speaker 1 12:44
Yeah, I mean, I was just before, before this, before this interview, I was just googling out of curiosity, and there was like a news report about some Chelsea fans going for a game to Napoli, so Naples in Italy, and just wandering the city before the match day, and they ran into a group of ultras, Napoli ultras, and they got chased and stabbed. So, you will like, there are towns and there are cities and there are clubs that have a very fierce reputation, and I'm pretty sure you can do your research beforehand and maybe avoid certain areas where you know that if that's their territory,
Nick VinZant 13:25
what can we expect at the World Cup? Is this something that goes along with the World Cup, or is that like, no, it's it's too tightly controlled there.
Speaker 1 13:32
I mean, it's tightly controlled, it's far away for most of the rest of the world, so it's quite a trip. It's very expensive this year as well, all aspects of it, like travel, is expensive, accommodation will be expensive, tickets are ridiculously expensive. So I think they have unintentionally, intentionally priced out large portions of fans in general. Yeah, I think the risk for the World Cup would be quite low, but you still have, like, I know the European Championships, couple years ago, like, when away fans travel, I don't know, couple of hours instead of 20 hours, where it's more realistic that larger groups meet, then you can still have that, but I think the World Cup in the US, similar to the World Cup in Qatar, there was, there were no incidents there to not really foresee major clashes there, but who knows.
Nick VinZant 14:25
I want to thank Linus so much for joining us. If you want to connect with him, we have a link to him on our social media sites. We're Profoundly Pointless on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, and we've also included his information in the episode description. Okay, now let's bring in John Scholl and get to the pointless part of the show. At what age did you first feel like an adult? Like, oh, I'm an adult now,
John Shull 14:55
23 probably. I think
Nick VinZant 14:59
you. Felt like an adult at 23 I don't feel I'd haven't felt like an adult until the last couple of years.
John Shull 15:06
I mean, from 23 on, I mean, I moved out of state. I, you know, I had already been paying all my own bills, like, you know, I don't know, I was living an independent life, like, I, you know, I don't know. I don't know what classifies this is a great question. What classifies somebody as being an adult? Is it their mental state? Is the fact that they can pay their bills? What's the most important part of that?
Nick VinZant 15:32
I think responsibility is what classifies you as an adult. I think that you do not really become an adult until you are also responsible for someone else in some capacity. Now I'm not talking about just having kids, I think that you can be responsible for people in other ways as well. But I think that's when I really started feeling like an adult, when I was responsible for someone besides myself.
John Shull 16:01
I'd still say 23 For me, I would say I know someone who just graduated from college at the ripe age of 26 and I think that person may not be an adult until 40, but we'll see.
Nick VinZant 16:16
Oh, are you taking shots at this person? I feel like that was a veiled shot at someone that you know, probably a relative,
John Shull 16:23
my brother. Sorry,
Nick VinZant 16:25
I figured, God, you're, you're that much younger than older than your brother.
John Shull 16:32
I am, I'm 13 years older than my brother.
Nick VinZant 16:35
Wow, does he look up to you, or does he want nothing to do with you? Does he look up at you as his wise brother, or is he like that's just my brother, John.
John Shull 16:45
Our relationship never hasn't materialized yet, but I mean, think of it like when I was going to college at 17, he was four years old.
Nick VinZant 16:55
Okay. Well, let's move on from that. So, you are definitely in the minority. 9% of people said 18 to 25 61% said 25 to 30, 13% said 30 to 35 and 17% said 35 plus. I agree with the 35 plus people. I didn't really feel like an adult till much later in life.
John Shull 17:20
I mean, I don't.. I'm not going to agree with that, but I guess it's just the.. it's the way people feel. I mean, it's pretty close. 30 to 40 seems to be the majority of the percentages there.
Nick VinZant 17:34
Well, no, 61% is 25 to 30.
John Shull 17:39
Oh, okay, I miss her. Okay, yeah. Well, no, I still.. I still think for most people, but see, then again, I don't like when do people leave the.. like, when do they actually get on their own now? Like, I don't.. I'm not only that being the only thing, but you know, I'm gonna.. I'm gonna.. I'm gonna be an old man and talk about the weather, and say, you know, what about all the generations where men and women became adults at 16 and 17, those days are long gone.
Nick VinZant 18:06
Yeah, but everything's just a product of their time. I mean, you had much less that you had to learn and be responsible for at those times too, right? Like you back then, if you had a high school education, that was like being a college kid now, so you just had much less stuff that you had to learn and be able to adapt to. Now you have to know so much more. Just takes you to need more training.
John Shull 18:29
Yeah, it's just.. it's just different. I would say it's probably been pushed back to 30 plus now. To be honest, you can go
Nick VinZant 18:34
that far.
John Shull 18:36
Art like my 23 is probably someone's 32 now.
Nick VinZant 18:42
I don't know if I could go quite that far, but I do think it's been much different. I would say my 23 is somebody else's 27
John Shull 18:50
I talked to my, I had an interesting conversation with old professor of mine, and I asked him a question, because he's a history professor,
Nick VinZant 19:00
and I
John Shull 19:00
said our teacher, whatever, and I said, you know, he said that he doesn't teach anything past, you know, like the Civil War, and I said, in 100 years, what do you think the history books are going to look like with everything that's happened just in the last five years, and he said, well, they're not going to have history books in 100 years, and I said
Nick VinZant 19:21
big times, yeah. I mean, they're not going to have history books in 100 years, because it's just going to be digital, so they probably won't be books,
Nick VinZant 19:28
but that's
Nick VinZant 19:28
like he's saying there's not going to be a history, he's just saying there's not going to be a book.
John Shull 19:33
I'm just.. that's.. I wanted to ask you that question, because I still think there will always be a place for physical media. I don't think digitally everything's gonna go like I don't, I don't think we'll ever live in a like 100% digital age where there is no physical anything.
Nick VinZant 19:53
I think books might be the only exception to that, because there is something about holding a book in your hand, but I don't think that there's going to be. Physical media, for like albums or movies, or things like that. I think that will go go by the wayside. I think books is the only thing that could survive like that.
John Shull 20:10
I disagree. I think I think there will be, you know, there's always a place for albums, and, and even video games, to a certain degree, even though a lot of the main, you know, a lot of the companies don't make a lot of physical digital or physical media anymore. Anyways, let's get to some shout outs.
Nick VinZant 20:26
Why are
Nick VinZant 20:26
you talking to your history professor? You emailed him, or you just ran into him? Did you email him this question?
John Shull 20:34
He know he reached out to me and wanted to have a conversation
Nick VinZant 20:39
about what
John Shull 20:39
about life and where I am in my, the future, and, and things, and we talked for a while, and just for the record, he said that I'm, I probably would make a pretty good instructor, just FYI. So,
Nick VinZant 20:53
okay, did you talk to him about submarines? Did you want to talk about submarines? Yeah, he did, didn't you? You talked to him? No submarines. He wanted to talk about submarines. You know, you guys could be the sub crew, could go to Subway, talk about subs,
John Shull 21:09
you know,
Nick VinZant 21:11
subs at Subway.
John Shull 21:13
I just want to give some shout outs. So, here we go. We'll start with Oscar Lewis, Sydney Patterson, Scott Osborne. I could see Nick. He has another joke. You just say it. What's your.. what's
Nick VinZant 21:25
waiting? I'm just waiting for you to finish up. I'm just waiting there.
John Shull 21:30
Okay, I don't even want to finish now, because I can. I can already
Nick VinZant 21:35
have.. I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not gonna say anything about your love of submarines, or that your history professor randomly just reached out to you. I don't really entirely believe that scenario. I think there's probably something else that is going on there, but we don't need to go into that.
John Shull 21:51
I mean, I went to a small university where I still keep in contact with a lot of people there. Why? Oh, I don't.
Nick VinZant 21:59
You do. I don't talk to a single person. I like, I couldn't name a single professor. Actually, no, I could name one professor that I had. I could name probably a couple, but that's it.
John Shull 22:09
You went to a university that had what, 30,000 kids, 40,000 kids,
Nick VinZant 22:15
probably around there. Yeah. How many people went to yours? Four or five,
John Shull 22:20
like maybe 2800
Nick VinZant 22:24
man, that's a small university. Were you?
John Shull 22:27
Yeah,
Nick VinZant 22:27
weren't you on like a team? Weren't you on some kind of team? Did you play football or baseball or something? Oh, well, I mean, pretty much everybody had to there at that size.
John Shull 22:36
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's yeah. Anyway, I played
Nick VinZant 22:40
in college. There was only eight other people there. God, I bet you tell people you played in college. Did you tell people you played college sports, and then forget the fact that there was only like 2000 people at the whole school? So it's essentially like you playing in college is somebody else playing in high school.
John Shull 22:56
No, that's but that's actually why I stopped playing, because I realized that it was more competition in high school than where I was, so
Nick VinZant 23:06
plus
John Shull 23:07
I was coming off of an injury. It doesn't matter. All right, Scott Osborne, Milton Chapman, Floyd Everett, Javier Duncan, Juliana Fraser, Gary Wiley, and Julie Tucker
Nick VinZant 23:22
Milton is a war, as a name that you do not hear very often. There's not a lot of Miltons. What? Okay, what are the chances that Milton is over 50 years old?
John Shull 23:38
Probably, probably not very good, because it was, uh, somebody on on our YouTube, uh, their handle was something, and their name was Milton, or Milton Chapman. So I'm gonna say probably not over 50 on that
Nick VinZant 23:53
one. Oh, I'm gonna go over 50. I don't know a lot of Milton's. Doesn't seem like a name that a lot of people are gonna have, sorry, Milton. Sorry about that, man. You're just over here catching strays for no reason. Guys, just pissed off. It's like, God dang
John Shull 24:08
it, Miles is legitimate. He's just legitimately trying to enjoy a show in here. He'll never listen again, which
Nick VinZant 24:16
probably not. Probably not. It's just water. I'm trying to stay hydrated. But do you think that every time that Milton introduces himself, somebody goes Milton, they repeat his name because they're a little bit surprised that it's Milton.
John Shull 24:31
No, I don't. I don't think I don't think Milton's a name where you know someone says it and you just go, oh, Milt, Milton,
Nick VinZant 24:39
Milty, Milto, what kind of nickname do you give me? Milton, Milton, Milto,
John Shull 24:47
you're really going
Nick VinZant 24:48
off Milton, Milty, Milty, what do the kids call Milton, the ton,
John Shull 24:58
what the. You got any Memorial Day weekend plans? You're going to take your family into the mountains and never return.
Nick VinZant 25:06
No, I don't. I don't like talking about my weekends. I don't like telling people what I'm going to do. I don't like telling people what I did do, like when everybody says, like, whenever you know you have, like, the work meeting, and everyone's like, "Let's talk about our weekends, and I'm always like, "I don't want to talk about my weekends, nothing. Whenever I don't care what happened to me, I could be inducted by aliens. If somebody said, "How's your weekend? I'd be like, "A pretty average. That is the only form of that is my least favorite, that is my least favorite form of small talk, is the weekend small talk. I don't want to talk about my weekend.
John Shull 25:49
You just heard what a it is like to have a conversation with Nick. That is, that is what it's like to have a conversation with you, right there.
Nick VinZant 25:57
I don't like to talk about weekends, want to talk about something. It's in the past, already did it. Who cares? Talk about the future, man. I don't look at where I've been, I only look at where I'm going. I'm sorry, you're living in the past over there, talking to your history professor, having email, deep conversations, talking about things that you did 20 years ago. It's over. Move on.
John Shull 26:17
Technically, I asked you if you had any plans for this weekend coming up, but it's
Nick VinZant 26:23
fine.
John Shull 26:24
It's all good.
Nick VinZant 26:25
Do you have some big plans? Like, I don't like.. I don't want to hear about people's plans, unless your plan is like I'm gonna climb Mount Everest and ski down. Like, you need to wow me. No, I'm just like, yeah, we're just gonna go to.. we're gonna go to a baseball game. Like, okay, cool. It needs to be something interesting. If you don't have something interesting to say about your weekend, then I don't want to hear about it. Somebody needs to have had some sort of life-changing event happen to them in order for me to care about their weekend.
John Shull 26:58
How mad do you get when it's like a Wednesday, and somebody's like, "Hey, how was your weekend?
Nick VinZant 27:05
Oh, you can't do that if you're asking me about my weekend on a Wednesday. We're fighting, I'm swinging.
Nick VinZant 27:13
Well,
Nick VinZant 27:13
how is your weekend? And my left hand starts coming up. That's how I feel. You cannot ask me. There is no reason to ask someone about their weekend past Monday at noon.
John Shull 27:25
I mean, yeah, if you're not moved on already by Monday at noon, I want to live your life
Nick VinZant 27:32
well. That's what I don't understand, is right? Like, why would I want to talk about my weekend and all the fun that I had and all the fun that I'm not having now? Like, that to me is more like, remember when you were enjoying life and now you're not. I don't want to talk about my weekend.
John Shull 27:50
All right, so if you ever work with Nick, just remember, ask him about his weekend before noon.
Nick VinZant 27:54
Don't ask me
Nick VinZant 27:55
about my weekend at all. I don't want to talk about my weekend.
John Shull 27:59
All right. Well, that went well. I don't have really.. I'm not sure what I'm doing yet.
Nick VinZant 28:06
You've really been phoning it in the last couple of weeks, like you're not really doing anything anymore, right? Is this a new strategy? Like, you're phoning it in, like you used to have some topics, some ideas, some games you wanted to play, and now you're just like, well,
John Shull 28:25
I mean, I was physical. I mean, we talked about aliens last week, that was fun.
Nick VinZant 28:30
Yeah,
John Shull 28:31
two weeks before that, I tried something, and you just beat it into the ground.
Nick VinZant 28:36
You, I gave you an opportunity to bring it back, and you didn't want to. Do you want to bring it back
John Shull 28:41
now? Would I? You didn't even give me a chance to get it
Nick VinZant 28:44
off. People deserve second chances. People deserve second chances. Okay, do you want to do it now?
John Shull 28:49
Do you believe that? I don't think you believe that.
Nick VinZant 28:51
Oh, I think people deserve second chances. I think people deserve a third chance, and then after that, you're done. Old Grandpappy VinZant used to say, try, try again, try one more time, and then quit. No reason to be a damn fool about
John Shull 29:09
it. Sounds like an amazing person. Pappy Vanzant,
Nick VinZant 29:13
he was actually Grand Pappy Vinzant.
John Shull 29:17
Let me
Nick VinZant 29:18
sell my dead
Nick VinZant 29:18
mother too. Now, want you to make fun of my dead mom.
John Shull 29:22
I would never insult your dead mother ever. That
Nick VinZant 29:28
would you want to just go to our top five? Then, since you phone it in,
John Shull 29:33
I mean, unless you want to talk about Taylor Swift's prenup that came out that her and Travis are gonna sign, because that marriage is gonna last, I'm sure.
Nick VinZant 29:44
Yeah, that's gonna be a really good prenup. I'd still don't think. Do you think it's a real relationship?
John Shull 29:52
Yeah, I mean, I think it's more her wanting it than probably him, and I'm sure most people out. They're like, you're an idiot, but if you look at her history, she, for whatever reason, has always yearned for a relationship. He, to my knowledge, the two that have been public, he was not a very faithful individual. So, you know, we'll see what happens, but yeah, I think it's, I do think it's a real relationship.
Nick VinZant 30:22
I think it's a real relationship, but both of them are actually in the relationship with themselves. I think that relationship, they say, are a mutual agreement that both of them are trying to get as much out of it as they possibly can. She's always been about relationships, because that's essentially, I don't want to talk about Taylor Swift with you. I'm not talking about Taylor Swift with another man. I'm just.. I'm not doing it. I'm not talking about Taylor Swift with anybody. Like, I'd rather talk about my weekend than Taylor Swift. I do not care. Like, good for her. Do what you want, as long as I don't have to hear about it. I don't want to have
John Shull 31:00
you asked me the question.
Nick VinZant 31:02
I regret,
John Shull 31:03
what about Snooki? Remember Snooki?
Nick VinZant 31:06
What's your doing? What's she doing?
John Shull 31:09
She was on a pod not too long ago, and
Nick VinZant 31:12
you say
Nick VinZant 31:13
pod, don't do that. Don't do that. Do not be the person that says guac instead of guacamole. Do not be the person that says doc instead of document. You have the time to go ahead and say the entire word and give it the respect that it needs. Don't try to abbreviate things like your captain cool
Nick VinZant 31:35
anyway.
Nick VinZant 31:35
What was Snooky? What was Snooky doing?
John Shull 31:37
She was on a podcast.
Nick VinZant 31:39
Thank you.
John Shull 31:40
And apparently said that Wendy Williams didn't believe her that she was pregnant, so before her show and during her show, when Wendy Williams had a show talk show, apparently she gave her alcohol to test her pregnancy to see if she was actually telling the truth, that's that's a pretty shitty thing to do, if you're Wendy
Nick VinZant 32:03
Williams. Yeah, when you look at, like, talk shows, they're actually kind of shitty to people. I don't.. that's why I don't write it. I don't.. I don't really.. yeah. Well, okay. Why do you know this? Why is this top of your mind about Snooki and Wendy Williams? Like, what are you doing that you're like, you know what is interesting to me.
John Shull 32:24
I mean,
Nick VinZant 32:25
Wendy,
John Shull 32:26
I like to, I like to try to brush up on things that people are talking about, and that was trending on three out of four of the major platforms. So,
Nick VinZant 32:36
oh, okay, well, cool.
John Shull 32:39
Leave me alone. All right.
Nick VinZant 32:42
I actually felt Wendy Williams. She's something happened to her, I think. Health issues,
John Shull 32:47
yeah. Her brain stopped or something, didn't it?
Nick VinZant 32:51
I mean, that's a big problem. That would be one of those things that, like, oh man, what happened to me? Oh, yeah, your brain stopped,
John Shull 33:03
and you know what, I want to.. I feel like I give you crap for being a terrible friend, but I want to say that you were a great friend Sunday night when the Detroit Pistons got absolutely destroyed in the NBA playoffs. You didn't even. you didn't even gaslight me, you didn't even, you probably, for one, didn't even know it was a game seven, and two, you just, you just stay quiet until I reached out to you. So, thank you, you're coming, you've come a long way.
Nick VinZant 33:33
No problem. I mean, I don't really think that I even need to point out that Detroit is going to lose. It's like, oh, Detroit's in a game seven, yeah, they lost that. There's no need for me to make the jokes. I don't need to make a joke when the whole team is a joke. I don't need to make a joke when the whole city sports relationship is one big joke. I think that they're just regularly messing with you. I think that all of the general managers and players and owners of all the Detroit teams are secretly just screwing with the fans, like, wait a minute, why do we need to be good? These people just keep showing up, let's just not spend money, make a whole lot more, they'll just keep coming. We don't need to be good, it's way better for us to be making millions by sucking, that's their real plan, and you guys are falling for
Nick VinZant 34:22
that
John Shull 34:23
isn't that sports in general, for the most part.
Nick VinZant 34:26
I did see something one day, though, that somebody said that really there's only 10 NFL teams that are actually trying to win the Super Bowl. The rest of them are just trying to make money, like not every team. I do think that that's an interesting thing, in the sense that just because there's a sports team doesn't really mean that they're trying to win, they might just be trying to make a whole lot of money.
John Shull 34:49
I mean, look at the look at English football, look at soccer, like in England you basically have seven teams that can win, everyone else is literally just trying to fight to stay in. Top, you know, the top tier for money purposes, like same in America, like, yeah, the Seahawks, they're never, they're probably not going to be competitive this year, you know what I mean, like it's fine,
Nick VinZant 35:11
Super
Nick VinZant 35:12
Bowl championships, the defending Super Bowl champions,
Nick VinZant 35:16
yeah,
Nick VinZant 35:16
they're sure when you're more competitive in the Lions, I don't get into this, let's just go to our top five. I'm not arguing with you about sports, and you know nothing about it, cuz you're not a champion. Don't know what it takes to be a winner. So, our top five is top five lessons we learned the hard way. I hope your number one is don't be a Detroit sports fan, that should be the number one lesson on yours. But what's your number five?
John Shull 35:38
My number five is make sure you keep some kind of emergency kit in your car at all times.
Nick VinZant 35:46
Oh, you've needed an emergency kit in your car.
John Shull 35:50
I mean, I'd say, like, as recent as two years ago, when I got a pretty severe flat tire, and you know, Bumpkin, Michigan, and you know there wasn't.. it was late at night, the tow truck was gonna get there, you know, an hour or two after that, like I shredded the tire, I had water, I had flashlight out, so the car was still okay, but like I had everything I needed in case, you know, I'd buy the blanket in case the power went out, blah blah blah, like you know, my wife, when we first met in Orlando, my car died, and it was 100 and something degrees, right? And the guy, as he gets my car back up and running, he's like, 'Your car's gonna die in five minutes, like you need water, like blah blah blah, you're on the highway, it's gonna take you 20 minutes to walk to the gas station. I said, 'No, I don't need water, I'm fine. Well, guess what? My car died, I got fucking hot, I got over, I got dehydrated, and had to go to the emergency room. So always keep a kit in your car, just in case, even if it sounds stupid, it's, it'll help for a plethora of emergencies,
Nick VinZant 37:02
you had to go to the emergency room for dehydration.
John Shull 37:06
Let's say it was more my wife forcing me to go, but you know, I remember like dry heaving because I didn't eat, and it was just.. it was just bad, like,
Nick VinZant 37:16
oh, you had a medical condition, you had some medical stuff going on there, huh?
John Shull 37:21
Yeah, yeah, but like, I also think some of it was just me being super pissed off as well, and like cursing the guy, because I'm, you know,
Nick VinZant 37:28
why are you
John Shull 37:29
mad with
Nick VinZant 37:29
him? He's trying to help you out. Oh, you're that guy. It's not his fault that you ran out of your car as a piece of shit.
John Shull 37:39
It's not he, he tried like he tried, basically giving me the keys to success, and I should have just listened to him. Instead, I was trying to be mr. Machine, you know, machismo, and though my, my car, yeah, and he was fucking right, and yeah, I still remember his name, Igor. So, thank you.
Nick VinZant 38:02
His name was he Russian?
John Shull 38:05
It was no, he was Bella. Well, yeah, okay, he was Bella. He was from Belarus. He was Belarusian, but very nice guy. Yeah, yeah, very
Nick VinZant 38:15
nice guy
Nick VinZant 38:15
too. Alan, he's trying to help you out. Wow, hope you learned. There seems like there should have been a lot of lessons that were learned on that day. Number one, carry water. Number two, don't be mean to people who are just trying to help you out. Number three, swallow your pride. You don't have to act like a tough guy. And number four, be prepared. So, it seems like there should have been a lot of lessons that were learned that day. I'm sure there was only one. You got one out of four. That's 25% That's not so bad. My number five is turn the power off before you unplug an appliance. I have never screamed at the top of my lungs before, but when I unplugged a dryer without turning the power off, I screamed, screamed in pain, pain mixed with confusion, mixed with, like, oh God, what have I done? I thought I was dead. I thought I was a dead man
John Shull 39:12
that gave you quite a shock, didn't
Nick VinZant 39:15
it? Oh man, I learned that lesson. Unplug an appliance, right? Turn the power off before you unplug an appliance. You gotta turn the power off before you unplug an appliance. That hurt.
Nick VinZant 39:33
Yeah, I can
Nick VinZant 39:33
still feel it.
John Shull 39:36
Yeah. All right. My number four is never assume an animal on a leash is friendly.
Nick VinZant 39:46
Yeah, yeah, especially when they lunge at you.
John Shull 39:52
That one's pretty self-explanatory. I have gotten bit, yes, but the time that I've gotten bit. Or got bit, it wasn't necessarily like I wasn't really trying to pet the dog, I was just, I didn't give the dog and its owner enough space on the sidewalk, and the dog, like, nicked my, my poor calf, the little dog, but I have gone up, like, with my daughters, where you know, you know how kids are, they want to pet animals, and or whatever, and you walk up, and you know they're not always friendly, like it just, yeah. So never assume, never assume that a dog wants to be pet.
Nick VinZant 40:30
My number four is, don't wait till the tank is on E to fill up, or you might find yourself walking 20 miles on a highway in Texas. I mean, I didn't have to go to the emergency rooms, I got dehydration, I just took it like a man, but still there's a long walk.
John Shull 40:50
Do you think I hear? I hear that a lot, like I'm even that way now, where you know I do keep the emergency kit in my car, but it's like if I break down, I'm probably going to be able to get help or warm or something like in 10 minutes, but I forget that most of America don't live in large cities, so if they break down in Texas and they have to walk 20 miles, like that's a real bad day.
Nick VinZant 41:18
That's it, was a bad day, that was a bad day. I did not make that mistake again. When are you generally going to start looking to fill up your gas tank? Like, at what level are you start thinking I need to get gas?
John Shull 41:33
I mean, probably around a quarter. Right now, with gas being as high as it is, we usually do it at around half a tank, just because you know 3040, 50 bucks feels better than 8090, or 100 but I'd say in a normal, if we were in normal times, at normal prices, a quarter,
Nick VinZant 41:57
I don't go past half a tank, because I live in Seattle, where the world's biggest earthquake is supposed to hit, and I don't ever want to be low on gas, so I don't let it go past half a tank, right at half a tank. I'm filling up. I may even go halfway in between half and three quarters, like I should probably get some gas here. I try to be prepared, John.
John Shull 42:19
I can, Is that a fact that the world's largest earthquake is supposed to hit Seattle metro?
Nick VinZant 42:25
Yeah, Seattle metro is basically due for the largest natural disaster in history at some point, like a magnitude nine earthquake. It's going to hit right under the city. It's going to be a huge disaster called the Cascadia Subduction Zone. If you live in the Pacific Northwest, don't look it up. It's going to be a huge problem. It's going to happen anytime.
John Shull 42:44
Oh, sounds like we should talk about that for an entire episode. All right, my number, my number three is pretty simple. Just always walk in a crosswalk, you know, always pay attention to the, the, you know, the lights, the traffic signals, they're there for a reason. For a long time, I was that, I'll say, douche bag, who, you know, I didn't care if it was a red hand, I'd still walk, I'd walk with traffic, you know, like, or if I was running, and then, and then I got nicked by a car, and realized that people don't give a shit, so here we are.
Nick VinZant 43:28
Oh, yeah, I understand. This is my thing with cyclists and pedestrians, is that you may have the right of way, but don't forget that I have a two ton vehicle traveling down the road at 20 plus miles an hour, like you may be technically right, but you're going to be saying that to yourself from the hospital bed, so watch out.
John Shull 43:47
Yeah, you're not wrong, you're, you're not wrong. That's that's why that's my number three lesson I learned the hard way.
Nick VinZant 43:55
My number three is you should do maintenance. I can't tell you how many times I've learned the hard way the importance of nation maintenance, and I think I've finally figured it out. Like, oh, you should do maintenance on things
John Shull 44:10
like cars, house things, just everything in general,
Nick VinZant 44:14
everything, everything yourself, maintenance, yeah, yourself, everything, relationships, friendships. friendships, cars, houses, dogs, cats, kittens, they all need maintenance. Everything needs maintenance, and you should do it. It'll save you a lot more in the long run.
John Shull 44:37
All right. My number two is you're never as young as you think you are,
Nick VinZant 44:44
and now,
Nick VinZant 44:45
yeah, yeah, I can see that for you. I disagree with that. I think you're actually younger than you think you are.
John Shull 44:52
Now, that's that applies, can apply to anything in life, but just remember, if you're 40, you're not. Not 25 anymore. If you're 35 you're not 23 anymore, like you're older. So, maybe, maybe act like
Nick VinZant 45:09
it. Yeah, I mean, you have to remember how old you are. I don't really have anything else to add to that. What is.. what are we on? Is that your number two?
Nick VinZant 45:19
Yeah,
Nick VinZant 45:20
my number two is, you get what you pay for. I used to always try to go cheap and cut corners, and I finally realized that at the end you're gonna get what you pay for. You always get what you pay for in pretty much everything, whether that's an actual product or like where you live or anything like that, you get what you pay for.
John Shull 45:42
Yeah, that's the I have that on my honorable mention. Actually, is yeah, because the dollar 99 jam looks so much more economical than the $4 $99 jam, but the $4.99 cent jam is probably the one you want, and will probably be better in the long run, you know.
Nick VinZant 46:04
Just for my personal interest, when you say jam, do you mean jelly, or do you specifically mean jam? Do you actually know the difference between jam and jelly?
John Shull 46:16
Jam has preservatives in it.
Nick VinZant 46:19
I think jelly does too. I have no idea what the difference between jam and jelly
John Shull 46:26
is. Well, let's learn. It is pointless.
Nick VinZant 46:29
You want to look it up? Did you already do your number one? Did I do my number two?
John Shull 46:32
No, you just did your number two.
Nick VinZant 46:35
It's really cold. I'm having trouble thinking. My body is shivering. Dress for the wedge
John Shull 46:41
jelly is made exclusively from strained fruit juice. Jam is made with crushed or pureed fruit, giving it a thicker, chunkier texture with bits and seeds. So, yes, jam does not have seeds or anything like that in it,
Nick VinZant 47:01
so are you a jam guy or a jelly guy?
John Shull 47:04
Oh, yeah, I'm a jam guy. I don't, I don't mess around with that jelly crap.
Nick VinZant 47:08
No, wait, I thought jelly was the one that doesn't have like the seeds and stuff.
John Shull 47:13
Yeah, it doesn't, but I don't, I don't want that. Give me the seeds, give me the jam, is so much better.
Nick VinZant 47:20
No, I'm a jelly man. Give me the jelly. I don't want.. I don't want anything to do with jam. It's your favorite kind of jam. What flavor? Say something stupid like
Nick VinZant 47:35
strawberry. I
John Shull 47:36
was gonna go.. I was gonna go with something like Zotic, but it's you, so I will just stay with I like, like a good grape, like a, like a good grape jam.
Nick VinZant 47:46
Wow, those are good, boring. Wow, they're rebel. What else do you do? Crazy on the weekends, sometimes you sleep in till what, 815 Wow, oh, blueberry.
John Shull 48:01
Oh boy, that's so much more.
Nick VinZant 48:03
It's way
Nick VinZant 48:04
more exotic than grape. Grapes are blueberries, way more exotic jelly than grape is. Come on, it's hard to get blueberry jelly. You got to look around for that. It's not just the kind of thing that's just available at any supermarket. You've got to go to, like, a specialty store.
John Shull 48:20
Oh, well, that's why number one, my number one is make sure you eat and hydrate on a night out.
Nick VinZant 48:35
Yeah, it's amazing how long it takes you to learn the lesson that you should drink water before you go drinking,
John Shull 48:43
or like during, even, or maybe chug a glass before you go to bed, but I found myself that eating is actually more important to me, like because I'll down, you know, five to 10 drinks in a couple hours, and I'll be that idiot that's like I just wanted to hit me, like you know. Well, then it hits you, and yeah, and you have nothing in your stomach, and you feel like absolute dog shit for two days after. So, oh
Nick VinZant 49:12
man, I've never had a hangover last more than one day. I've had him go till like eight 830 at night before, but I've never had it go into the next day.
John Shull 49:24
I, my, my bachelor party, I think I was still drunk that Sunday when I came home and was hungover till midweek.
Nick VinZant 49:32
Oh
John Shull 49:34
yeah, I just couldn't kick it, couldn't kick it,
Nick VinZant 49:38
man. Jeez, what a sad, sad state of affairs. My number one is, listen to people who are older than you.
Nick VinZant 49:45
The older I get,
John Shull 49:47
emotional,
Nick VinZant 49:48
the older I get, the more I realize that your parents were right, and that older people actually do have some advice. You don't think it applies because it's a different time. Then you realize as you get older that, like, oh, dang it, my parents and grandpa, grandpa were right, and you don't realize it till you're older, and you're like, ah, I wish I would have listened to him, it's too late.
John Shull 50:16
Well, that makes one of
Nick VinZant 50:19
us. Oh, okay. All right, you have anything in your honorable mention?
John Shull 50:22
Nothing that we haven't discussed already, pretty much.
Nick VinZant 50:25
I got nothing in mind either. Well, let's just stop it. Then you can go get some jelly, email your history professor, talk about your fucking submarines. Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it. Really helps out the show. Let us know, what are some lessons that you learned the hard way? I'm telling you, if you're going to unplug a major appliance, turn the power off. I can still feel that, like I can still feel the electricity going through my body.