For Lolo Fennec being a Furry is a way to show the world their true-self. We talk furries, fursonas, the ins and outs of the furry lifestyle and how to make a fursuit. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Steves.
Lolo Fennec: 01:11
Pointless: 40:51
Top 5 Steves: 53:30
Interview with Furry and Fursuit Maker Lolo Fennec
Nick VinZant 0:11
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, Furies and Steve's,
Lolo Fennec 0:19
some people are shy. And I have my shy tendencies as well. But when I get in costume, it's like, I'm this whole. I'm this person that I really want to be. I've always, I've always really loved foxes. I think they're fantastic little creatures. I specifically chose a fennec fox. So because they're super tiny, just like imagine, like a fairy. It's like a pillow. On your head. I've fallen asleep in seats before.
Nick VinZant 0:42
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest. They're a furry, a furry lifestyle advocate, and a fursuit. Maker. This is furry, Lolo Fenech. First question, I think that jumps out right away, right is what? What's the appeal? Like? What is the reason that people do this?
Lolo Fennec 1:18
I can say from a more personal standpoint, I really enjoy being a character. I love character acting. When I was a kid, I would see mascots like Mickey Mouse, and everything like that. And like sports mascots, and I loved how happy they made crowds of people like it, just seeing them, you know, just express themselves and have fun, it makes everybody around them really happy. So I found a lot of joy personally in wearing a costume and bringing smiles to people. Because it's just, it's fun. You know, I think that's like one of the most satisfying parts about it, plus, being able to express who you are on the inside. And having people appreciate that, you know, like, some people are so scared to. Some people are shy, and I have my shy tendencies as well. But when I get in costume, it's like, I'm this whole, I'm this person that I really want to be, I am much more confident, and comfortable and so much more of myself that my core. And it feels nice to have people appreciate that. Like, you don't have to pretend to be anything else if you don't want to. And people will accept you for you. And I think that's a really wonderful thing to have.
Nick VinZant 2:31
That seems like a completely reasonable answer, right? Like that makes complete sense to me. But why do you think that people have the reaction? I'm assuming that other people will be like, what's going on here,
Lolo Fennec 2:42
even in my, around my home around my house, I'll be outside taking photos because you know, natural lighting, it's the best lighting. So I'll take my projects that I finished out there and get wonderful photos. And surprisingly enough, I live in a college town and people all around, you're always so nice and very curious about it. Very curious minds. So some people will come up and compliment me like, oh my god, that's so cool. Some people will come up and be like, What is this, and some people might just judge me from far away. That's fine. You know, these are all reasonable reactions to things you may not have seen before. And I think so long as you're being cool about it. I'm not going to mind what your reaction is. But I think it's perfectly I think it's perfectly okay to be kind of taken aback when you see somebody in a costume because especially with masks and things you don't know who that person is underneath. And that could be scary. And I think that is a very understandable sort of reaction to have.
Nick VinZant 3:41
Is there like so when did you kind of fully invest yourself in the lifestyle?
Lolo Fennec 3:48
It's been about? I think I'm going on 11 years right now since I joined. And really, I didn't really know it was a thing. I was in college. And I mean, I've always wanted to be a mascot for my high school and my college, but I'm too small. And then I did my research. And I'm like, oh my god, there are people who also love this, like, walking, talking animal stuff. Awesome. And slowly but surely, I started to find other people with the same interests in the community around me. And then after that, I mean, it just came together so fast, people saw that I was making costumes for myself and you know, fursuits really? And they're like, Well, I'm interested, could you make me one could you do this? And that's kind of where it took off. And it's really cool.
Nick VinZant 4:37
I know you make first suits. I want to get into that a little bit later because it's the process of making that making that seems very difficult. Is it? Is it a sexual thing? Is it a lifestyle thing? Is it both like why would you kind of categorize this?
Lolo Fennec 4:52
So for me, it's it's another I mean, it's just another hobby. You You know, the way it becomes a lifestyle, so to say is because of what I do for a living, which is making the pursuits. But outside of that, you know, I'm just every other person, I enjoy various other hobbies, and I have a lot of other interests. For some people. I mean, like, there's always that there's always that question on whether or not it's like a sexual thing. And I think, when you really delve into it, it's whenever there's going to be adults in a space for something. And this can be any community, any fandom, there will always be adult aspects, you know, and that's, I've always had, like the principle belief of like, if you're a consenting adult, and you're not hurting anybody or yourself, I don't really care what you're into. And, yeah, most of the time, that's just that if people want to delve into a sexual aspect of it, they're free to. And if they want to keep it more safe for work more, you know, not sexual, that's perfectly fine, too. And I think that being able to explore whatever side is kind of a nice thing to have, when, you know, the free space is actually it's a pretty queer space, LGBT plus safe, and for people to be able to explore parts of themselves. In that space, it's a really safe space,
Nick VinZant 6:22
if you were to kind of I'm a big numbers person, right? Like, so if you went to a convention, and there's 100 people there, or however many, right? Like, what percentage of people would you say, are exploring this as a sexual Avenue versus what percent are just like, this is something that I just like to do? Like, this is a hobby, like people like to go kayaking?
Lolo Fennec 6:40
Um, that's, that's a really good question. I'm not entirely sure on percentage wise, I feel like there could be a, it really varies, I just went to what's now the third, the world's third biggest for a convention, and that's held in Atlanta, Georgia, it's called very weak in Atlanta. And, gosh, that record breaking number for the Con this year, it was nearly 11,000 people at this con. And when I think about the percentage there, I mean, this is there's a variety of people, they're all different ages. And I would say maybe, you know, it's a smaller percentage of people that want to explore a sexual avenue of it. But then again, I mean, I wouldn't say this is something that is what the fandom is based off of.
Nick VinZant 7:27
I don't mean to dwell on this, right. But I guess from like, my experience, knowing nothing, right, I always thought it was a sexual thing. Is that a common misconception? Or,
Lolo Fennec 7:36
I would say so a lot of a lot of media representation that furries get usually falls into that. And that's because we live in such a weird society where America is kind of obsessed with sex, but also very, like prudish and like weird about it. They're like, Oh, yeah, sex is awesome, we can market it, we can make money off of it. But like, if you're living your best life and being sexual, whoa, you know, it's, it's so it's a complicated place to be. So of course, in media representations, people will take that and run with it, because they can mark it off of it. And they can, you know, get whatever from it, they kind of feel like it's kind of an abusive way to go about it. But, you know, like I said, with most any space that you run into, there's always going to be that adult side, there's always going to be a sexual aspect. You can take most any hobby, you know, if you think about, like, there's even like laundry football. They have like lingerie leaks that I've heard of before. And it's like, you know, I don't often hear people shaming them for that. But it still kind of exists. Because like I said, we're in such a weird society that we shame it, but also want it. It's weird.
Nick VinZant 8:50
That's really true. Right? Like, we don't talk about it, but it's all we talk about.
Lolo Fennec 8:57
Yeah, it's so weird how that works.
Nick VinZant 8:59
And I'm always fascinated to buy it's never what someone is doing. It's always who is doing it, right. Like we you could do this and that's completely fine. But if you do that, weirdo, right, like that kind of stuff.
Lolo Fennec 9:13
And I think it's, it's because especially with furries. Like a lot of the furries that I've met and I know, really dear friends to me, great people. It's like, a lot of us are kind of shy. And, you know, we might be what people tag is like those weird introverts, you know, because it can be intimidating to open up about something that people don't understand. So, of course, people are going to want to alienate us because we're already weird, you know, and then you add the sexual homosexual aspect. And it's like, whoa, furries being like that. Oh, that's too much. What weirdos?
Nick VinZant 9:48
Yeah. Do you think that it would be different if this was like the prom queen doing it?
Lolo Fennec 9:52
What would you mean by that? Could you expand on that if
Nick VinZant 9:54
it was the popular girl in high school that was doing this as opposed to maybe the kid in high school? That was in the back of the class or the one that people labeled as like the weird kid. Right. And I'm throwing out massive generalities here,
Lolo Fennec 10:07
potentially. Yeah. But then again, it's because I don't know when you think about like how celebrities operate and stuff. I don't really keep up with celebrities, but it's I was watching a video the other night, actually. And it's talking about, oh, Selena Gomez and Taylor Swift and all this other drama that comes with that stuff. And I'm just like, I don't really particularly care about all that. And I still think about, you know, what, if these people with these big names were into the furry fandom, like, what would that do? And I still think the same problems would probably exist. And I think it's just because it's so because that stigma has just been so heavily laid down already, and has been on the internet, like furries have kind of been the butt of jokes on the internet for quite a long time. And I think it's because maybe they think it's some sort of easy target. I'm not sure. I don't feel like there's anything that makes us two totally different from everybody else. There are brilliant minds in the fandom there. I mean, one of the people that worked on the COVID vaccine isn't the Phantom. And like incredible stuff, like you have doctors, lawyers, you have your everyday people just enjoying a hobby.
Nick VinZant 11:23
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you're okay. It's a fursona. Right? Is that okay? So explain to me kind of what I get it, but I don't know if that makes any
Lolo Fennec 11:32
sense. So persona is basically a persona. So you like your main character? It's, it's you as a character. So for me, my character is Lolo. They're a Fennec. So Fox with gigantic ears, and stuff like that. And it's just like a visual representation of me, I guess outside of just like my human looking because the big part of the fandom is loving, walking, talking animals, you know, kind of like Bugs Bunny cartoons and stuff like that.
Nick VinZant 12:07
Now, how did why did you choose that one?
Lolo Fennec 12:10
I've always I've always really loved foxes. I think they're fantastic little creatures. I specifically chose a fennec fox. So because they're super tiny. I don't know if you've ever seen one. They're like, three pounds. They're like this big, but they got gigantic ears. So they're like, they're really good listeners. Naturally, they have crazy amounts of energy. And it makes them really silly funny. And I just I felt like that was a good match for my personality. Because at times, I can have lots of, you know, energetic bursts. I can be a good listener. And, you know, I'm, I'm on the smaller side. So like, I'm five, three. So everybody else is taller than me. And yeah, I felt like that was a good fit.
Nick VinZant 12:51
Like when you go to a convention? Or do people fit into certain types, like this person is a dog, they must be like this, this person is a cat, they must be like this. Like, are there archetypes that people fit into?
Lolo Fennec 13:03
I guess kind of sometimes in like, really cute, funny ways. Like there are people who have dog characters who have very doglike personalities who you know, are very playful and silly and fun. People who, you know, like cats, like I have cat seats in like characters that are cats. And, you know, that's the side of me that's like, Oh, I just want to be lazy and lay around. I don't want to do anything. Stuff like that can happen sometimes. But it's not always the case. And that's just because like, sometimes we have this connection to like a certain species or animal. But I think sometimes it could be, you know, how they look. You know, sometimes some people like, for me, I love gigantic ears on Phenix, or animals with big ears because I think that's adorable. I don't always match the archetypes for him. But that doesn't matter. I think just choosing something that you feel represents you? Is the main part of it. Do most
Nick VinZant 13:58
people kind of stick with one throughout the throughout the entire time? Or do people like change them all the time? Or how does?
Lolo Fennec 14:04
People People will change them? Depending on the frequency. I've had my character Lolo. For the entire time, I've been active in the fandom. Only like slight changes to the design over the years, as I'm non binary, so as my character and they've kind of transitioned with me over time. And yeah, some people will will totally change it up. I have like a million other characters in suits. But there's a difference between like just characters and personas. And the best way I can explain that is like the first time it feels like your true self. And then a character is just like an aspect maybe that you want to explore or maybe not even a part of you. Like I have. I have really grumpy characters that are just like intentional jerks. Just for the fun of it. Just to be something different. So yeah, everybody it's it's open to all different kinds of changes and things like that.
Nick VinZant 14:58
The question that I keep this keeps popping back into my head over and over again. Is it just feels like it would be hot.
Lolo Fennec 15:06
Warm it is. So see, it is. It's a very warm hobby. Because yeah, getting into a suit. And depending on what kind of suit you have can definitely make it warmer or cooler for you. And yeah, I gotta say, I think this past weekend at free week in Atlanta, I probably sweated out my my body weight, because of how hot it was there.
Nick VinZant 15:33
That's really the only thing that I have against this is the heat aspect of it. Like, isn't this just uncomfortable? Isn't it just hot?
Lolo Fennec 15:41
It is. But the nice. The nice thing about the fandom is that you know, you don't need a fursuit to have a good time or to explore different aspects of yourself or expressing yourself. There's so many sides of the fandom that you can get into you can you know, be an artist, you can do art, you can do music, you can do dancing, you can really do whatever you want. You don't necessarily need a suit to interact and have a good time.
Nick VinZant 16:06
For some reason, it keeps reminding me of like the stuffed animal version of Ready Player One.
Lolo Fennec 16:12
I do like that movie.
Nick VinZant 16:17
better movie than you think it would be? Right? It's
Lolo Fennec 16:19
honestly, yeah. It surprised me. I didn't think I was gonna like it that much. But yeah, you got a good point. Yeah.
Nick VinZant 16:25
It's kind of like that, right? Like you can be whatever you want to be. And I want to be this today. Do most people come into it later in life? Do they kind of know right away? Like when do most people kind of adopt this?
Lolo Fennec 16:37
So I'm finding and I could be totally wrong. There are actual, like research numbers out there. There's actually like, teams, at conventions, I can't remember what their name is. So forgive me on that. But they actually surveying people at the Collins to get consensus on this kind of stuff. So a lot of the demographic tends to be people who are like in their younger 20s sometimes, because for me, I found out about it when I was like 19. And in college. So right about that age, I would say people have a good idea of what it is and what they're getting into. And expand from there. So it's, I would say it's usually, let's just say my age, so like 18, to maybe late 30s 40s. There's people, a variety of ages, but I noticed a lot of them are younger folks. And I feel like that kind of plays in with learning about who you are, and figuring out what you want. And interacting with the fandom can help you kind of find yourself in a way.
Nick VinZant 17:36
How popular would you say that? It is?
Lolo Fennec 17:39
It's actually really gaining popularity, especially with our numbers increasing at cons, which still blows my mind every time. I mean, I think the current biggest furry convention is Midwest for fest, and that's in Chicago in December every year. And I mean, you even just go to one of these cons and you see, just proud of the 1000s of people. And it just keeps getting bigger and expanding every year, which I mean, that's awesome. It seems like there's more. There's more people like, like being you know, I'm happy to talk about it and to educate people more about the ins and outs of it. And yeah, help people get past that, that big stigma that's out there.
Nick VinZant 18:22
So the first suits, right, like, Okay, is there a difference into how much somebody is adopting it? Versus if they're just wearing the the head the top versus the whole thing?
Lolo Fennec 18:34
Yeah, there's there's, I mean, are you talking about like, comfort? Like, what, what side of that? Are you more interested in?
Nick VinZant 18:41
I don't know.
Lolo Fennec 18:43
I just tell you all about the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, I'll just give you a whole spiel. So based on you know, everybody's different and what they want, what they're comfortable wearing, some people don't know that, you know, some people will jump into getting a suit, and not know that maybe they don't like a full costume. They don't like a full first suit. A full suit is really what that's called. There are different kinds. So you have a partial, and a partial suit is like maybe just the head, the hands and the tail. Sometimes that goes to arm sleeves and P paws. And then you have something like a three fourths suit, which is kind of everything but the torso of it. It's kind of like you get the legs, the feet, tail, arms, hands, but you're lacking the torso. But I actually like to do that because that helps me regulate my temperature better. And then you have something that you have the full suit, which is the full costume. And there's two types with that there is plantigrade which looks like how a human stands right? digitigrade did it you can't say the word right? digitigrade is imagine like if you pick an animal up to stand on its feet. And you see how like their legs curve.
Nick VinZant 19:54
Yeah, I'm thinking of a dog. Right? You pick a dog up and it's like it can't quite stand like that. Okay, I know she's
Lolo Fennec 19:59
right. So, that's known as digitigrade. And that is basically like you create the illusion that you're standing like a dog would. And you have all this padding to create the illusion, those ones I find to be very warm, like, crazy warm. Um, there's also in it's not as common, but they're known as quad suits. They're really cool to see. But again, not common. And it's for obvious reasons. Basically, you're kind of walking on all fours, but you have, you have these sort of stilts for your hands to walk around. So it looks like you're walking on all fours. It's really cool. It's a very unique sort of suit style that you don't really see very much because it is. It's tough. I mean, I feel like that one's a dedication.
Nick VinZant 20:49
That's the thing that I just keep thinking of, right? It's like, this just seems like this not at my comfort level. In terms of pure comfort. Like that seems a lot of work. Also, these look expensive.
Lolo Fennec 21:03
Yes, yes. And it's because they're all handmade, these are not like mass produced items. These are all individual artists, or maybe very small teams that all hand make this stuff, and it's for myself included. It's amazing. And the craft itself has evolved since I've joined the fandom for people who have been in it longer and doing the craft longer. It just amazes me how far they've come. There are all different types of materials that you can do. And nowadays, especially you have, like 3d printing has become a huge part of it. And I'm also into 3d printing. It offers a lot of really cool stuff now and you just see, it just the craft is exploding. It's so cool.
Nick VinZant 21:47
What is it made out of?
Lolo Fennec 21:49
So different things. So if let's go through a head,
Nick VinZant 21:52
yeah, just the whole thing that take me Yeah.
Lolo Fennec 21:55
So for me, you can you can work on, I would say three types of materials. You can do upholstery foam, or like expanding foam, basically like imagine couch cushion couch cushions I can't speak. Yeah, right. Yeah. So you get the you get F bomb and you can carpet with scissors, which is I still do that. You can do Expanding Foam, which you create a mold and you pour a mixture and it creates foam. I do that as well. You can do resin, you can do 3d printing, which is very light and actually really sturdy. It's very surprising. I pretty much work with all of those materials. My personal favorite is working with foam and expanding foam because it's just more forgiving in the process. So you get the you get the base. You make a pattern for it for the fur, and the fur is all faux fur, you just order it online there are different providers that you can go through there's actually a decent chunk you can go through and then yeah, all the individual little pieces and parts you have the things like the teeth and the eyes like you know how are you going to do that you can 3d print, you can resin you can there's just so much you can add to it. Heads can actually be really comfortable. If you if you know what you're working with. I've been able to make all different types like foam expanding foam, resin and 3d printed I can make all those heads very comfortable to wear. Just like imagine like a very, it's like a pillow on your head. I've fallen asleep and seats before people will put fans in my head you can do so much to make it breathable and comfortable.
Nick VinZant 23:40
So the furry part, right like what's that made out of?
Lolo Fennec 23:44
The furry is basically like a fancy plastic. Basically like if you if you really get down to it all faux furs just fancy plastic.
Nick VinZant 23:53
Now what kind of cost are we talking
Lolo Fennec 23:55
about these can range my prices are. They're in a process right now, because I'm working through my queue. And when I'm done, my prices are going to be raised. But for if you're looking into a suit, it can really vary. You can find people who make let's just take a head for example. Some people will make ahead under $1,000. Some people you can find people that will make them for like 800 Maybe or even less if they're beginning maker for people who are professionals, as I call myself you have a professional fursuit maker ahead for me is like 2400 Right now, there are people who you can charge more for heads based on how long they've been in the fandom and the demand that they have. For a full costume sometimes that can range somewhere. And again, it depends on what you want, but it can range from somewhere like let's say 3000 to. I've seen auctions go for like 10,000 before. It really depends on who you're going through. And like I said the demand is a huge part.
Nick VinZant 24:57
Is there anything that for people like because that's I mean, that's a barrier, right? Are there things that for people can do that? Like, look, I want to do this, but like, I just cannot.
Lolo Fennec 25:07
You can't afford all that. Yeah, that's a chunk of money. Yeah, that's exactly why I got into fursuit making actually was because when I started learning about the costumes, I was like, These are so cool. Let me look at him and I see the price. And I'm like, oh, boy,
Nick VinZant 25:22
that's a chunk, right? Like, that's a good amount, especially at that age. That seems like most people are involved.
Lolo Fennec 25:27
Yeah, especially if you're in college and stuff, who that could be pretty pricey. But of course, keeping in mind that these are individual creators that you're supporting. So the prices are very worth it, like 100%. But if you say you don't really have that in your budget, you can learn to make them and there are so many tutorials and bases and things that you can buy online, that just make it so easy to do like there are, I mean, I run a group that helps people make fursuits. I call it my free work in progress chat. Excellent people in there, all different kinds of creators come in, and we help each other we give each other pointers about like, oh, you could do this a little bit better, or I recommend using this material versus this one. Yeah, it's, it's really amazing that now, pretty much anybody can make their own fursuit.
Nick VinZant 26:21
But in terms of like making them like, I would imagine that there's no, like, Hanes isn't making these right. Like, there's no,
Lolo Fennec 26:30
there's no mass, there's no mass producing.
Nick VinZant 26:33
So how do you fulfill that demand? Right? If you've got 1000s of people, and it takes How long does it take to make one the average, if I
Lolo Fennec 26:41
actually take my time, I'm usually I work pretty fast on stuff. But if I take my time, I would say I would love to give people a month of time for like the wait process, just like just a month to do all the things and pay attention to all the details. And some people can do it faster with a month some people take a little bit longer. You know, it all depends on the skill level and everything. But what was your What was your question? Again,
Nick VinZant 27:06
I guess the overall question would be right, like, it seems like you have way too much demand and not enough supply, supply. Essentially, it's like a logistical problem.
Lolo Fennec 27:15
It's actually it's, it's reassuring, in a way when I say that, because when I got into policymaking, I never thought in a million years that I would grow to be a full time fursuit maker, I had no idea I just got into it. Because I enjoyed the craft, I love crafting, and I wanted a suit. It looks like a lot of people found potential in me and it went from there. So there are so many people that have the chance to become makers, and people have now the chance to make the suits themselves. And I think that's kind of how we keep up with it is, you know, opening up more tutorials and showing people like this is the process. It's kind of like a little bit of job security. Because there are 1000s of people.
Nick VinZant 28:00
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Oh, yeah, go right ahead. Is a convention like the meeting place as opposed to like a thing people do.
Lolo Fennec 28:12
It's, it's a, it's a big meetup. It's a big social gathering. In free groups all throughout, like the US and outside. There are free meetups that are much more small scale and local to those are always an opportunity to socialize and meet up with people like your friends and stuff. Be free concepts like a larger scale version of one of those. So it is a it's a big social event. But basically, I mean, I treat it like the one there's the chance to do business and to network, which is a big part of it for me. But also, the other big part is just seeing my friends. I've made a lot of friends through the community and I just love going to see them
Nick VinZant 28:54
do you have any friends who have these like you've never seen their their real face?
Lolo Fennec 28:58
I I've seen all my friends real face. I know that some folks just don't like to. Some people like to keep that separation. Some people don't like to show their face on social media just even as a whole sometimes. There are people in even like anime communities and like b2b communities that also don't like show their face. But yeah, all my close friends I've seen them I know their faces. I know the names.
Nick VinZant 29:20
The to me from the outside that would seem like I don't know why, but like a big thing. Like I'm taking the suit off. Is that a big thing? Or is it like, that's not really a big deal, man.
Lolo Fennec 29:32
And again, that's another one just situation where it varies per person. Um, yeah, I mean, it's never been like a big deal to me. I'm just like, Okay, it's that person. That's what they look like. Cool.
Nick VinZant 29:45
I guess that's the appeal and maybe the disappear. I don't know if that word, but maybe what people would like, people who aren't in it would shy away from it like, well, I don't know who I'm talking to you.
Lolo Fennec 29:57
Right and that can definitely be intimidating. I I can totally understand that aspect. There are people. Let's take mascots, for example, think, like a football game, and you got the mascot running around there. Some people are just purely terrified, because they're like that could be, that could be somebody crazy in there, you know, but like nine times out of 10 it's just somebody wanting to make people smile.
Nick VinZant 30:20
Yeah, that was the one thing like, I didn't know if you were going to come in the suit, or if you were going to not be in the suit. And I was a little wonder, like, how am I going to handle this? Like, I wasn't, I didn't know, it's like, that was the first time getting into an interview that I was ever like, okay? Be prepared, be prepared that they're gonna be, right, because you don't want to like, this is a little like, I don't know what I'm doing. Right? Like, it's like talking to somebody that they can see you, but you can't see them. I think I could see that throwing people off a little bit,
Lolo Fennec 30:52
I can tell you a little bit, something a little bit more personal. So for me having a suit to wear, like I might have briefly mentioned before, it helped with my confidence. Sometimes, I sometimes I can be a very shy and nervous person. And I think over the years, having the ability to put something on is like soothing for me. But also, I've been able to gain the confidence over the years through a lot of support through people that, you know, I'm still a person underneath at all. And I think that's, that's the biggest part of why I did this without my suit head. I want people to just know that. We're just like everybody else. We're just people. We just have a fun interest. That's it.
Nick VinZant 31:35
Oh, what's the best costume you've ever seen? Oh, that's me for costume. Right? Like that is just, it's in my brain. And that's just how I can't get it out of there.
Lolo Fennec 31:45
That's okay. That's, I mean, I still use costume, you know, to communicate it because again, some people aren't familiar with the terms, so that's fine. So oh my gosh, yeah, I've seen some really cool fur suits. There are there's one that sticks out to me. That is the character is just I think maybe simply a White Wolf. Right, just white wolf. But underneath they have these crazy LEDs, these amazing lights that just go through their entire suit in the head, eyes light up, everything lights up, and it's just, it's beautiful. And it's like the coolest thing to see. There's also people who do like animatronics, where, like, you know, they can make like the they can make a face snarl. They can make the ears go back. They can make the eyes blink, like, Oh, it's so incredible what people can do with these things. Yeah, but I'm trying to think I really like to look up very species specific animals. So I like to look up things that aren't common. So like the big common ones are usually like foxes and, and canines and stuff like that. But I love finding stuff that's a little different. Like you'll see frogs and snakes. I've seen a fish. Like it's amazing. There's a there was a big like muscular dolphin. He's one of my favorites. I love him. Like, that's like my favorite suit. So much because like you just look at him. And he has the cute dolphin face. And then he has like this Big Rip.
Nick VinZant 33:11
I don't trust dolphins. I don't trust him. I
Lolo Fennec 33:14
think that's fair. As actual as actual animals. Those guys are a little nastier up to you as heck. But they they're up to something right? There's there's something very intelligent, so scary.
Nick VinZant 33:26
Don't trust a man. I do know trust dolphins. Bear. What is this one? Okay. Oh, how do you can you clean it?
Lolo Fennec 33:37
Yes, you can. Clean I am huge on cleaning them like that is actually I'm actually about to be working on a YouTube series of how to clean your suit. Because I find that some people get a little scared because like they paid 1000s of dollars. They don't want to. Yeah, don't mess it up. I don't know what my language is allowed to be. Here. So yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, I don't, people are afraid of just completely screwing up the suit. And sometimes we'll just do like like thinking but you can deep clean those suckers. Like really you can just the bodies you can just that sounds really morbid. But the body seats, you can just throw in the wash. Easy peasy. The heads you can use like one of the things I recommend it's called a green machine. And it's basically like a fancy carpet cleaner. And you can effectively clean the head like spotlessly without having to soak it in a bathtub. And you can still soak them in bathtubs, some heads. You can even throw in the wash. It's amazing.
Nick VinZant 34:34
What is your favorite piece of furry lingo? Ooh,
Lolo Fennec 34:40
oh, gosh. Some fairy lingo actually. I'll admit sometimes it makes me cringe. I was just like, stop.
Nick VinZant 34:49
I was looking through the list a little bit because when somebody brought this up and I was like, Okay, some of this is kind of like you're pushing it. You're pushing it. You're pushing To me,
Lolo Fennec 35:01
the lingo genuinely makes me cringe. But that's just me. I don't really know if there's any particular piece. I don't know that there's, there's always like a play on like, for, for like everything or like, pause or whatever I think, again, I think for me, I just, I'm not a fan, I just stick to the terms as I know, which is, you know, personas fursuits, stuff like that.
Nick VinZant 35:26
So you knew these were going to be common, right? Do people have sex in the suits? They have sex outside of the suits? How does this kind of work? Please, that
Lolo Fennec 35:35
Yeah, I know that these are the questions. Yeah. So basically, keeping in mind again, my my main principle of consenting adults and not hurting yourself or others, people, people will engage in sexual stuff, you know, but that's their comfort levels. And for some people, I find this actually to be kind of cool. So as a fursuit, maker, the fact that somebody will wear a suit and feel like sexy attractive, is the biggest compliment I could ever get, like, I made something that makes you feel good and sexy. Like, that's awesome. Hell yeah. So if you're, if you want to do the things and stuff, you can go do the things and stuff, but ain't much my business.
Nick VinZant 36:18
But as the maker like, then how do you? How do you design? Like I also there's a hole or a zipper, or like,
Lolo Fennec 36:28
there's different things that people can do, like, from what I understand there's like, like zippers that can be added and stuff like that, for people who want to engage in that side of it. I don't really know too many more of the, like alterations that people do. I know that there's different ones for different makers, but yeah, I mean, it, you know, it suits you can, it can be very customized for what you want, basically.
Nick VinZant 36:54
Do you ever just wear it around the house?
Lolo Fennec 36:57
Oh, definitely. Now, and then, you know, if I'm, if I'm having a day where I just need to shake things up, sometimes I'll pop on ahead and take some funny photos and send them to friends. Every now and then I will
Nick VinZant 37:07
What would you say to someone who wants to do this but is afraid? Oh,
Lolo Fennec 37:11
well, very, you will be surprised at how like, how accepting, like, how many people will just accept you and you'll be surprised at yourself and what you're able to do. I didn't know I could do the things I do until well, I just stepped into it. I had no idea I could, you know work full time as a maker. I didn't know that. I could, you know, be known for dancing, which I used to do, like just fun dancing and see. I think I think just taking one step and just talk to people ask question. There's nothing wrong with that. It's okay to be curious. Yeah, just start small.
Nick VinZant 37:57
Are most people right? Like when you are most people jerks are most people curious.
Lolo Fennec 38:02
I think like most people are just curious. Honestly, like, in most interactions, I used to like, in one of the communities I used to live in, like in Ohio, I used to go out and run fursuit meats, where a bunch of us would get in suit, and we'd walk around town. And a lot of people again, are either like curious, I don't really run into jerks that often. If I can be honest, like, even within my own family, you know, people always are worried like, what if they find out you're a fairy? I'm like, I don't care. Like I'm happy. I'm doing me. Like, if they can't be respectful of that, then like they're not worth my time. So most of the time, yeah, people are pretty cool. They just want to know more about it. And yeah, they got the stigma so they're always going to ask the question, yeah, there's
Nick VinZant 38:49
Oh, it's weird how like a couple of people can kind of ruin things but I do think that most people are like, whatever. Yeah,
Lolo Fennec 38:55
do what you want and I can't emphasize enough is that the world is a crazy place right now. It's kind of scary. And I think that taking the time to do things that make you happy it's just so worth it
Nick VinZant 39:08
that's all the questions I got like I did look over Um, is there anything you think that we missed or kind of what's coming up next for you if people want to get sued or want to learn more?
Lolo Fennec 39:18
Yeah, so right now my my personal Commission's are closed I am booked until December. But there I mean, I am always active on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, what name you all different stuff. I'm very online, very active with the community. I run groups in telegram I will be at Anthro con myself. I'm really excited for that. Excited to see friends again. And yeah, if people are ever curious and you know have questions they can always ask me I don't mind. I do have kind of a threshold though. I mean, I'm kind of limited because was working I work full time I work. A lot of my time is spent making suits or doing art. And that's about like 12 hours a day. So yeah, I'm busy, but I'm happy to answer questions or talk to people if they ever want.
Nick VinZant 40:16
I want to thank Lolo so much for joining us if you want to connect with them, we have linked to them on our social media accounts. We're Profoundly Pointless on Twitter, tick tock, Instagram and YouTube. And we've also included their information in the episode description, the YouTube version of this video, we'll be live on June 1 at 430. And we've included some video there of how the first suits are made. It really is a cool process to see how these come together. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of the show. So do you untie your shoes before you put them on? Or do you use a slip them right on
John Shull 41:02
I don't know if I'm different in the in the fact that I only have two or three pairs of shoes. I don't have, you know, 10 to 20 to choose from. So the shoes that I have, are usually already tied and I just put them on there that goes for boots, all the way down to like cross trainers.
Nick VinZant 41:20
Now I don't know about boots. I think you've got to untie and retype boots. If you're talking about that, right? Because it to me in my mind. If you're wearing boots, then you're going out in the snow, you're doing some hiking, you got to make sure that stuff is ready to go. Otherwise you just wear are you wearing them for show? Are you reason like Oh, I gotta put my boots on today?
John Shull 41:39
No, it's for show that's like wearing them to work. You know, like work shoes.
Nick VinZant 41:43
I don't really understand anyone who wears anything but slip ons toward like, I'm not putting enough effort into it to tie my shoes when I'm going to work. I'm not doing that.
John Shull 41:56
I mean, out of all the things. I was thinking about this a while back, actually, if you think about all that it takes for you to get ready to start your day. It's a hefty list. I mean, you're pretty you're crossing off 11 things before you even get to your car.
Nick VinZant 42:11
Okay, from if you did it, no interruptions, no nothing from when you wake up to when you leave. How quickly do you think that you could do it?
John Shull 42:22
Well, are we going bare bare minimum here? Or like, am I still going through the paces of doing?
Nick VinZant 42:27
Every you've got to treat it like a normal day, right? It's not like I don't have time for that today? Like how long would it take you from getting up? To getting out the door? Probably 15 to 20 minutes. I feel like that's not bad. But I feel like that's a little slow. Like you think oh no, wait, are you is that include going number two,
John Shull 42:47
I was just gonna say if we're adding in bathroom time, then it's probably another 20 minutes. I like I like being able to kind of take my time in the morning, whether it's on the toilet or in the shower. And and that's aside from brushing my teeth and things
Nick VinZant 43:03
I can be everything done out the door, including in 10 minutes.
John Shull 43:10
And that showering to Yeah,
Nick VinZant 43:13
10 minutes. I've got it down to like a science. I know exactly what I'm doing. I wake up, I'm brushing the teeth while I'm in the shower, then I'm gonna go, then I gotta put my clothes on, then I'm out the door, probably 15 minutes, I can do it in 15 minutes. reliably.
John Shull 43:31
I mean, I was gonna say you wear a dress clothes. So I mean, that has to add a little bit of extra. You're just not throwing a t shirt and shorts on.
Nick VinZant 43:37
Yeah, but I know how to put a shirt on. It doesn't really take me very long. Right? Like, if it's taking you more than 30 seconds to put a shirt on. I don't care what kind of shirt it is. You either need to speed that up a little bit. You need to practice a little bit or you shouldn't be wearing that kind of shirt. The fact that is taking you 45 minutes is ridiculous.
John Shull 43:57
Well, I mean, if I was if I'm in a hurry, I could do it in 20 to 25 for sure.
Nick VinZant 44:03
I still think that you're poking a little bit. What are you doing that it should take you 20 to 25? I mean, where did where do you? Where are you losing time? Do you feel like
John Shull 44:12
you're you know, it's warm? I mean, it's probably all with a shower. I mean, like, you know, it's I like to take 10 to 20 minute showers.
Nick VinZant 44:22
Oh, yeah, I don't care about the environment either.
John Shull 44:25
Listen, if my 10 to 20 minute shower is what's going to doom this planet than Hey, I'm sorry to all of you out there because I'm not gonna stop doing it.
Nick VinZant 44:34
You're just gonna go ahead, right like how high would the waters have to rise before you stop? Before you're stopping? Before you're cutting your shower early.
John Shull 44:42
I mean, I mean, listen, I'm not a dick. If I had to, I would. But as of right now, I don't know. They're just raising our water rates to crazy levels. So maybe that'll have something to do with it.
Nick VinZant 44:55
Do you ever take personal responsibility for possibly like dooming the world and Some way, right? Like, No, you didn't have to drive to the grocery store today, you could have combined trips. You didn't have to take that 10 minute shower. You didn't have to buy that thing. Do you feel any personal responsibility towards dooming the earth?
John Shull 45:14
I don't because I feel like I actually live a pretty eco friendly life in terms of some of the sustainable products that I use. And obviously I'm not 100% sustainable. But I feel like I'm probably in the top 25%
Nick VinZant 45:32
I don't think I I want to go ahead and say this that on my main pair of shoes, not my gym shoes, I might go three months without tying them. It can be three months.
John Shull 45:41
Ah, yeah, I like i said i I probably have my gym shoes and it's probably a once a month I'll say three to three times a month is or three. Every three months is a lot. I feel. I mean, don't they become loose? Don't you feel like for ankle support? You have to tie them up? No. Okay,
Nick VinZant 46:02
I've got manly ankles. I guess I don't have dainty ankles like you do over there. Tinkerbell. You have the nicest
John Shull 46:07
calves and all of Oregon.
Nick VinZant 46:10
Well, I live in
John Shull 46:11
Washington. Yeah, same thing.
Nick VinZant 46:14
So he's kind of
John Shull 46:16
anyways. Alright, let's see. Let's give some shout outs Shelley. Shout outs shout out. Honestly, we'll start off with Jonathan E. Burn. Francisco Suspendisse. Qian Alvarez, Bridget Weldon. Rob Osborne. Diane, Irene. It's a pretty two first names, as your name that to
Nick VinZant 46:42
two first names is always tough.
John Shull 46:44
So you never really know. Right? Like,
Nick VinZant 46:47
my wife before we got married had three first names. Middle Name. Well, your middle name is usually always a first name. But she had three first names.
John Shull 46:58
Do you do you want to do you want to go? I know two of them. i What was the third one?
Nick VinZant 47:04
Oh, why don't I just go ahead and dachser so everybody can look her
John Shull 47:06
up? All right.
Nick VinZant 47:07
Let me tell you a wait.
John Shull 47:09
Oh, boy, Val curry. Appreciate you don't mind Nick being a douche bag. Carter Cummings. And one Andres Montoya. Speaking of three names, even though Montoya is not really a first name. All right, got a couple of Bucha ringers for it. What do you think is? What do you think is the proper way to say this sport? Is it table tennis, or ping
Nick VinZant 47:42
pong. So he's going to be ping pong to me. It's always going to be ping pong to me. And I know understand the idea that people would want to call it table tennis from an international perspective. And there may be some people here in the United States where we are that are going to try to class it up and say no, no, no, no, no, it's table tennis. But those people are posers.
John Shull 48:00
Well, that leads me to my next question. Soccer. Is it soccer? Or is it football?
Nick VinZant 48:08
Well, it's soccer here, if you refer to football here, right? Like, it's just like anything else. Right? I got this advice one time. It doesn't matter if the car is blue. If everybody else thinks it's red, you're the idiot.
John Shull 48:25
Yeah, which is kind of asinine, if you think about it,
Nick VinZant 48:29
right. But perception is reality. Did you just throw up in your mouth a little bit? Haven't you been drinking all day?
John Shull 48:36
I was drinking quite a bit, but I stopped about two hours ago. So I'm doing all right.
Nick VinZant 48:43
I can't do that, man. I don't know how you start day drinking. And then like, just kind of stop like, I'm either. If I'm starting day drinking, it's on until I pass out. I'm not even having a beer at like lunch or something.
John Shull 48:56
I mean, I started probably around 11am. And I don't know it was about six, seven hours of straight drinking.
Nick VinZant 49:03
I don't know how you do that. That's just don't you feel awful right now?
John Shull 49:07
No, because my house I follow the Nick VinZant School of not using your air conditioner and it got to be 82 degrees inside my house earlier. And I was sweating like a like a fucking person who hasn't lifted their arm in 10 years, and I'm pretty sure the alcohol was just being drained out of me through my sweat.
Nick VinZant 49:28
It's good to toughen you up a little bit, man. It's good. toughen you up a little bit, and it'll get people to leave your house too. It's just too hot at John's house. That's a great way to get people to leave your house. Just turn off the air conditioning.
John Shull 49:41
Just don't. Surprisingly, it didn't really work. Which is fine, though. You gotta burn them out, man. smoke them out. So this isn't really a question, but I was curious to know, so fast. 10 just came out. Yes, there's 10 of those movies. Now. When did you You start following the franchise? The first one? You You didn't see that you didn't see the first one?
Nick VinZant 50:08
I don't think that I have no, I've seen the first one. But I don't think that I've seen any sense that maybe parts of them, but I have not seen a full Fast and Furious movie since the first one. I mean, and um, this is one of those things that I'm not totally convinced that anyone has. Oh, there's some things that are like, I think that there's some things that are propped up by like, solely, I don't know what, like, how many things can you think of? Or I don't know anyone who has actually ever done that. I don't know a single person besides You, who has gone to a Fast and the Furious movie in the theaters. Like who's keeping this alive?
John Shull 50:52
I mean, that that's, I mean, it sounds like you need to, I think I can name two or three of your friends that I know of that are probably gone and seen a Fast and Furious movie in the theaters.
Nick VinZant 51:03
I don't think that they have i i have also feel like since the pandemic, movies mean nothing to me. I don't I'm not. I don't care. They used to be cultural events. And now I could care less. Even like the big blockbuster, you'd be like, Wow, that's gonna be awesome. Now. Nope, don't care.
John Shull 51:24
I mean, I think the culture has changed a little bit. But I still think movies are big and maybe not as big. But I mean, the Top Gun did like $3 billion, or something around the world at the end of the pandemic. So I mean, and then you had Mar, you had the Avengers endgame. I mean, there's plenty of blockbusters.
Nick VinZant 51:46
But it used to be a car. I feel like a couple of movies a year that you would be excited about, like, oh, that's gonna come out. I'm excited about this. I haven't been. I can't think of the last movie that I can even. I can't think of the last movie that I was actually excited about. Star Wars Force Awakens. That was the last movie that I was like, I'm gonna go see that. And let's just call that five years. I have no idea how long is the last? That's probably 10 years that might be 10 years ago.
John Shull 52:18
The last movie I saw in theaters was the last Halloween movie, which came out the same day on peacock. So it was like really, I could have just saved the money and watched it at home. On peacock.
Nick VinZant 52:32
Yeah, why did you do that? That was a rookie mistake.
John Shull 52:36
I mean, once again, it was something about you know, kind of coming out of the pandemic going into the movie theater.
Nick VinZant 52:41
On to the next thing. 2015 is when Star Wars Force Awakens came out. I was the last time I was excited about going to a movie. And eight years ago, eight years. Eight years.
John Shull 52:50
Damn,
Nick VinZant 52:51
okay. Do you have anything else? Are we ready for our top five?
John Shull 52:56
Excuse me? Oh, god dang, there's 31 days a month of Oh, good. I did it again.
Nick VinZant 53:04
All you care about God dang it. Son you know not know how to read a calendar.
John Shull 53:11
I did it. I did it. In April heading into Okay, fine. Yes, then yes, I'm, I'm excited about our top five and I guess the candle of the month for everyone who was patiently waiting and knows their dates. knows it's coming next week. Now
Nick VinZant 53:27
that this might be the hardest top five that we have done in this regard. We've done a number of ones were like the top five John's we haven't done John. No one cares about John.
John Shull 53:38
John three sixteenths and is whipped your ass.
Nick VinZant 53:42
Oh, you guys, I know you're gonna put him up very high on the list. And I know that he doesn't he doesn't deserve Oh, that's insane. Do He doesn't deserve it? So anyway, our number five. Our our top five is top five. Steve's and this is a competitive list. A competitive list where your boy didn't even make it. Didn't even make it on my list. Probably not even honestly in the top 10. Not really when you think about it. Anyway, so top five, Steve's to number five.
John Shull 54:14
Yeah, so I agree with you that it's competitive, though. I think there is. There's about a dozen of them. That should be you know, up for contention. So anyways, and set one
Nick VinZant 54:24
down. Did you go off of feign influence, or just kind of personal favorites? What would you say that you went with?
John Shull 54:34
Well, I have one personal favorite, which which I don't want to say personal favorite because I think they should be on the top five. But then I then I went kind of overall because two out of my five are non celebrities. But anyways in saying that. My number five is one of those people and it's Steve Forbes.
Nick VinZant 54:56
No, I don't think so. I think he's a very influential So Steve, but I don't think that he's even honestly in the top 10 Because he invented did he start Forbes other than that? I don't know, anything that he did. But
John Shull 55:08
isn't that enough? Forbes has spanned the world.
Nick VinZant 55:14
It's now
John Shull 55:15
I mean, it's it's everywhere. It's been everywhere. And, you know, even digitally now, you know, his company has made the transition to fully being digital. And, and you still know, the Forbes lists, you know, the investment stuff. I mean, yeah, I don't know how you don't put him on the top five.
Nick VinZant 55:34
Because I don't know anything that he did. Other than that, his name is last name is Forbes. Other than that, I have no idea what Steve Forbes did.
John Shull 55:44
I mean, I could look it up I can't name and other than other than what he did, you know, as the executive and for Forbes magazine, and all that, like I put it to me, that's enough because everybody or you know, financially knows what Forbes is, or at least has heard of it.
Nick VinZant 56:03
I know what he didn't do which is inspired an entire generation to go outside and appreciate animals like mine. Number five, Steve Irvin did
John Shull 56:11
for First off, it's Irwin.
Nick VinZant 56:14
Is it Irwin? Yeah. Steve Irwin. I always thought it was Steve Irvin is it Steve Irwin? See, he was very famous, worldwide famous,
John Shull 56:25
but, but once again, or not once again. To me, he was part of a group of animal actors or whatever. Zoo ologists of that time. Yes, he was. He's, he's still remembered. But top five Steve, I just can't see it.
Nick VinZant 56:45
Steve Irwin, I think is a top five. Steve, he had was very influential. He's still remembered today. And it's probably going on 10 to 20 years. And I can't name there's one other guy think Jack Hanna who was like a famous zoologist. But I can't name anybody else who's done what he did. He revolutionized that industry. Jack Hanna, maybe his closest competitor in that regard, but he wasn't worldwide famous anything like Steve Irwin was
John Shull 57:14
I mean Hear me out on this before you completely crush it. But I would I would say that tiger King was just a is just as famous as Steve Irwin was maybe not lashing the pan not influential. But you know the same kind of startup?
Nick VinZant 57:35
No, he was forgotten about he's already been forgotten about because you know him is Tiger king but you know his actual name. Do you know his name?
John Shull 57:44
Joseph. Joe something Yeah, I don't know his last name.
Nick VinZant 57:48
Actually, I think it's Joe exotic but that's not his real and I think it is actually Joe exotic the tiger cave. Like think about that. Like this one guy changed his name to like the judge to allow that should have been like, No, listen, this is going down a dark path.
John Shull 58:03
And we both co have covered Carole Baskin of her days in Florida. I'm not saying she was a peach either. But you you can't plan to kill somebody. So
Nick VinZant 58:13
no, that tends to go badly. Okay, what's your number four. This
John Shull 58:17
is just a terrible this was the one Steve that I didn't want to put on the list. But I felt like he deserved a spot at four or five and that Steve Carell.
Nick VinZant 58:31
I can understand Steve Carell at four. I think that's fair. He's not a top top tier Steve. But he's, I could go as I could go no higher than four. I'm okay with Steve Carell.
John Shull 58:44
I mean, oh,
Nick VinZant 58:46
that's fair of those other like Stephen Colbert, he's more famous than Stephen Colbert.
John Shull 58:52
I mean, I swear to God, if you have a certain Steven, or Steve, as an actor above Steve Carell, I'm gonna lose my mind. But
Nick VinZant 59:03
you don't you don't you don't. You're not thinking of what he has done. You're a flash in the pan. You're not looking at the overall. Mind. Number four is an overall choice, which is Steve Harvey. He's been around a long time. He's had a long, long career. Lot of people know who Steve Harvey is.
John Shull 59:19
So I have him on my honorable mention. I, you know, I you could interchange him for me at five possibly with Steve Forbes. I wouldn't do it. Most likely, but I could hear the argument. I feel like Steve Harvey is known, but I feel almost that he is known more for his gaffes than he is as being like a leader in the industry that he's in. Like, I feel I feel if you were to walk up to 10 people on the street and ask them about Steve Harvey, they would say he's a talk show host or they would say he messed up Miss America and said the wrong name as the winner.
Nick VinZant 59:52
He's like a fantastic kimete influential comedian.
John Shull 59:57
But I mean I maybe I'm Maybe I'm sheltered. I have no idea but I don't. I don't recall him as being that great of a comedian.
Nick VinZant 1:00:07
He's pretty good. He's up there. He's up there. Who's your number three?
John Shull 1:00:10
Well, if we if we had an audio board on the show, I would break the glass right now. Because I'm putting Stone Cold Steve Austin as my number three.
Nick VinZant 1:00:20
I knew that was coming. I would I thought that maybe you would put him as number one. Honestly. He's the problem is is that he unlike the here's, here's why I didn't put Steve Austin on the list. He doesn't transcend out of wrestling. He's one of the biggest wrestling stars not to ever really move into movies.
John Shull 1:00:42
I wouldn't disagree most I wouldn't disagree with that. But also, he is he has TV shows and not saying they're successful TV shows. But to me, there's no difference in saying like Mark Wahlberg, you know, should be on top five Mark based upon just because he hasn't really transcended out of being known as an actor.
Nick VinZant 1:01:06
But movies are a much bigger thing than rest. I don't I don't think so.
John Shull 1:01:11
I don't think so.
Nick VinZant 1:01:13
Every then why isn't the wind The Rock still wrestling?
John Shull 1:01:17
I mean, he did though he did wrestling? Yes. I mean, he's, and first off, I think it's unfair to put the rock as the Bautista let's, let's use Dave Batista as an example. Like there's a guy that was an okay wrestler. And now look at him. He did one movie series and he's set even more as a wrestler. Stone Cold was the face of a generation of kids worldwide back in the late 90s, early 2000s. Everybody knew his name. If you if you were into sports, everybody.
Nick VinZant 1:01:51
I don't think that he transitions out of it though. I think that movies are ultimately the biggest medium that you can do. Maybe music if you're very popular and music is on the same. I think that music movies and top tier athletes are the most famous people. I don't think that wrestlers are not of that caliber. They are though even the most famous. They're not but they're not they're not up to that that high of a caliber for a worldwide audience.
John Shull 1:02:19
No, I know I'm gonna get a lot of shit for this and I probably should. But I think it's hard to discern whether or not or to say you know, comfortably whether or not that a professional wrestler is not like a top tier athlete. If they can be included, like the rock, like even a Chris Jericho.
Nick VinZant 1:02:39
He's not my number three, which is Steve Martin. Okay, see, I
John Shull 1:02:43
put Steve Martin as my number two.
Nick VinZant 1:02:46
Ah, you cave.
John Shull 1:02:49
I did. Kay,
Nick VinZant 1:02:50
I thought you would leave I thought you would leave him off the list despite me
John Shull 1:02:53
No. Earlier when I was talking about Steve Carell and and the other Steven that I would think about possibly putting above him. I was talking about Steven Seagal. But no Steve Martin, by far. You know, I would have actually probably considered him as number one. But number one, I feel like is pretty, pretty self explanatory. Alright, you know, like it's it's pretty set set in stone who should be?
Nick VinZant 1:03:19
Hmm, I kind of disagree with you. Okay. My number two is Steven Spielberg.
John Shull 1:03:25
Okay. I don't mention like, like, could could have been could have been five or five or six for me, by far.
Nick VinZant 1:03:35
You're gonna put Steve Forbes above Steven Spielberg,
John Shull 1:03:39
in terms of influence? Sure. I think you're putting too much credit. And you just sat here and talked about movies, not necessarily meaning that much. And now you're gonna put Spielberg
Nick VinZant 1:03:51
that's exactly the opposite of what I said. I said movies are probably more influential than anything else. In our society. I think movie stars are the biggest most celebrities on the planet.
John Shull 1:04:02
You know, I think I think all that's, you know, I don't know what the word is. I think it's up to the person. I mean, you can say Taylor Swift is the biggest celebrity on the planet.
Nick VinZant 1:04:12
Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't disagree with that. i She's probably in the top five. I mean, she's one of most famous people on Earth,
John Shull 1:04:17
we should do. Top five Taylor's next time. Um,
Nick VinZant 1:04:21
I can't think of any other Taylor's why Taylor Swift would be number one. I
John Shull 1:04:24
wonder who your I mean, our number one has to be unanimous than I would think. Right?
Nick VinZant 1:04:29
I don't know. I don't know. I think that you're not the he to me is number one, Steven, not only because he is pretty famous person but also in terms of influence. And in the sense that that's a one of a kind. That's a generational talent. I don't think there's very many people that can do that. It was your number one.
John Shull 1:04:48
Steve from Blue's Clues.
Nick VinZant 1:04:52
Steve is a mean he's a voice of a generation. Who's your actual number
John Shull 1:04:56
when you weren't even doing a budget on that, Steve? Jobs.
Nick VinZant 1:05:01
Steve Jobs to me is a bullshit pick. Steve Jobs to me is the biggest fake thing. Oh my god, Steve Jobs is fake. Steve Jobs is famous for inventing an iPhone. He didn't invent the iPhone, he was the co founder and CEO of Apple. So,
John Shull 1:05:17
which is in everybody's life, at least in most countries, developed countries in the world, like you have your hand on a product that he had either approved or use his creativity to help build or make? How was he not the most famous Steve ever?
Nick VinZant 1:05:36
Because he gets too much credit for what he did. I don't like the idea that he invented the iPhone, he did it. Somebody else invented the iPhone, that you know what, here's what I'm going to do. I have now decided that look, I want somebody to go ahead and make a small personal vehicle that flies through the year, I have now invented the flying car. So give me all the credit for it.
John Shull 1:05:58
I mean, that's,
Nick VinZant 1:06:00
I think he gets too much credit. And I'm probably blinded by that he because you make you make a good argument. I'll give you the he
John Shull 1:06:06
I'm not saying that you're not incorrect. And maybe how he did that. I've never seen the bios on him. I've never read his book. Maybe that's the way he was. However, he gets that luxury because he was Was he is or was sorry, the co founder of Apple. I mean, which is integral in everyone's life, whether we whether we have an iPhone, or use Mac or whatever. So yeah, so that's why he goes as my number one maybe not a popular pick.
Nick VinZant 1:06:34
I think I think that you have a good argument and you're probably correct in that aspect. I'm blinded by the fact that I don't like it when people like, Oh, you did this? Well, you didn't do it. A lot of people did it. You don't get credit for that. Unlike mine, number one, who is Stephen King.
John Shull 1:06:51
See, his Spielberg and King were I mean, they were like I said them and Harvey were right on the cusp for me. A breaking in the top of my the top half of my top five. But you know, it's maybe if this was 20 years ago, 30 years ago? Yes. But I feel like as, as you've called me out on several times on these lists that we've done on past episodes, I feel like he is he is becoming forgotten as time moves on. Maybe not his titles. But yeah, like him as an actor or not. him as an author. Just in general, like when's the last time you heard anything about Stephen King of oh, man, that's, there's a new Stephen King book, it's always about him tweeting stuff. Now, it's never about what he's releasing or doing.
Nick VinZant 1:07:43
I think, though, that he's done so much stuff, you don't even realize that he's done it. Like, to me, this is why this is my rationale for putting him as number one is, I think, a lot of the other Stevens that we've talked about, they could be replaced with somebody else. They're not a singular, generational talent. He's cranked out more big books than like, anybody.
John Shull 1:08:05
See, I would, I would, I would argue with you on that, at least on my list. My number one and two, Steve Martin, generational talent. No, I mean, he did things. And you can say that he was arguably one of the top actors for 3040 years in Hollywood for his genre. Now I know a lot of people are gonna say, you know, whatever, but that's what I'm saying. And then for Steve Jobs, I mean, if anyone could have could have done it or lead the company they could have but they didn't
Nick VinZant 1:08:39
you may have convinced me. I feel like your argument is better than I'm willing to give you credit probably.
John Shull 1:08:45
I will say this about about your about Stephen King pick or about your king pick is that it's not wrong. I don't know. I don't know where he stands in terms of influence. And you know, volume of books sold and manga and, you know, graphic novels sold every has. He has to be in the top five of all time, though. And that itself is frickin incredible.
Nick VinZant 1:09:09
Yeah, he's way up there. Who's in your honorable mention? Who did you leave off? There's a lot of really famous Steve's Yeah, one of them. You could make an argument. Everybody does know who he is. Which is Steven Seagal. He's a joke. He's a joke now but everybody knows who Steven Seagal is.
John Shull 1:09:27
Well, like I kind of like I kind of said earlier, you know, he, when I was thinking of Steve Carell, I almost was uh huh. He is you know, Seagal is no Steve Martin, but maybe he is more known as you know, more known than, than Carell. But I, I couldn't do it. Um, let's see. So other than the three I've already mentioned, that you had on your list that being Harvey Spielberg and King, I had Steve McQueen, the actor from the 70s and 80s 90s. You know, I feel like he deserves a spot on on the honorable mention. Steve Allen. Steve semi another actor.
Nick VinZant 1:10:02
I thought about that one, but he just couldn't cut it.
John Shull 1:10:05
I didn't want to put this person on on the list, because maybe they're not known worldwide, but I feel like American sports are just you know if they're superstars they're known around the world. But Steve Young.
Nick VinZant 1:10:19
Oh, yeah. But he was always overshadowed by Joe Montana. He was never going to be us somebody that was never as famous as he could have been. Because there was somebody else that that even though he was good, he was still like, one be.
John Shull 1:10:36
Yeah, but I mean, I you know, he won a few Super Bowls. And you know, and whatever I feel like he's etched into, into glory as being one of the most famous Steve's or Stevens. That was kind of it. I was trying to remember, I should probably look it up because I'm gonna put my foot in my mouth. But who was the bouncer from the Jerry Springer show? Wasn't his name's named Steve. Steve Wilkos or something,
Nick VinZant 1:11:02
Steve Wilkos. And he's not in the top 100 Man.
John Shull 1:11:05
Oh, I don't know, man. Once again, I think a lot of people watch the Jerry Springer show and at least know know who he is. That's gonna be my wildcard pick.
Nick VinZant 1:11:15
The one that there was that I thought about it this for a minute, but then he goes by, I thought about Steph Curry, but he goes by Steph. Even though Steph is apparently still a Steve, but to me, he goes by Steph. Here's the one that honestly was probably you could put up a really high top that we both skipped over is Stephen Hawking.
John Shull 1:11:36
You know, I thought I once again I thought about him. And I'm just not sure outside of the sounds so uneducated, outside of you know, his field and you know, just the what what am I looking for the educational community or whatever you want to call it? I just don't know if people give a shit anymore. about space. Yeah, I just don't know. He's just don't know if they care if this was 30 years ago. Absolutely. He's top top 530 years ago, Steve Jobs isn't even on the list.
Nick VinZant 1:12:11
He's the most famous really smart guy since Albert Einstein, though. And Stephen Baldwin as well. Also probably should have been, yeah, should have been on there.
John Shull 1:12:22
I ran through him and I ran ran through his name and I was like, no, no Bolden will ever make a top five list ever.
Nick VinZant 1:12:29
The only other one that I had that I don't think you mentioned was Steve Aoki is pretty big musician. You got Steven Tyler, Steven Perry. Musicians could be on there. The Steve might be one of the Steve might be the most stackless Since Tom's Yeah. Might be Tom's to steep beat Tom's in your mind.
John Shull 1:12:48
I think so. Steven Tyler and Steve Perry. I thought about but once again, as of today, you know, 2023 I don't think I just don't think people give a shit about Aerosmith anymore.
Nick VinZant 1:13:02
Yeah, that's a band. That was a huge band that didn't really stand up to the test of time. I mean, not anymore.
John Shull 1:13:07
I mean, they're still gonna sell out stadiums. Right. But at the same point, I mean, I don't know. I just don't I don't I don't think they resonate well with today's culture.
Nick VinZant 1:13:16
No kids today are listening to Aerosmith. Kids today still are listening to journey though.
John Shull 1:13:22
Well, I mean, that's
Nick VinZant 1:13:25
don't stop believe it. Oh, okay. That's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of Profoundly Pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a rating or review. Doesn't have to be anything big. Just a couple of quick words really helps us out and let us know what you think are some of the best Steve's I I think John has a good argument about Steve Jobs. I just have a personal pet peeve, with people getting way too much credit for something that somebody else really did. But, in hindsight, Stephen King probably shouldn't be number one. It should be Steven Seagal.