Cigar Blender Nicholas Melillo

What goes in to making a great cigar? Follow Cigar Blender and Foundation Cigar founder Nicholas Melillo’s journey from the fields of Nicaragua to award-winning, handmade cigars. We talk how cigars are made, the secret to cigar blending and the future of the cigar industry. Then we unveil a new Candle of the Month and countdown the Top 5 School Supplies.

Nicholas Melillo: 02:09ish

Pointless: 52:43ish

Top 5 School Supplies: 01:17:20ish

nickvinzant@gmail.com (Show Email)

316-530-7719 (Show voicemail)

https://www.instagram.com/nickragua (Nicholas Melillo Instagram)

https://twitter.com/nickragua (Nicholas Melillo Twitter)

http://www.foundationcigars.com/ (Foundation Cigars’ Website)

www.instagram.com/foundationcigars/ (Foundation Cigars’ Instagram)

www.facebook.com/Foundationcigars/ (Foundation Cigars’ Facebook)

twitter.com/FoundationCigar (Foundation Cigars’ Twitter)

Nicholas Melillo Interview: Cigar Blender and Foundation Cigars Founder

Nick VinZant 0:11

Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode cigars, and school supplies,

Nicholas Melillo 0:20

it is a difficult process, what I do is totally handmade. So, if you make any mistakes, so you take different seed varieties, you take different land, you take different positioning of where the tobacco is located, that completely changes the flavor of the tobacco. So from there, you can get 1000s of different potential blend combinations, billionaires, blue collared workers, musicians, artists, all of these different types of people come to this one place that normally I don't think would ever spend time together.

Nick VinZant 1:02

I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it. It helps out the show. And we just like hearing from people, Greg, I got your voicemail. I completely agree. That's something we're going to be talking about in upcoming episodes. And a special thanks to realness, for your review on Apple podcasts. It's really stuff like that, that keeps us going. So I have always been fascinated by how things are made. And how little changes in that process can completely change something. Our first guest has worked in the cigar industry for more than 20 years here in the United States in Central America, and has traveled all over the world. He specializes in blending together handmade cigars. This is cigar blender and founder of foundation cigars. Nicholas Malolo. So is it hard to make a cigar or is it hard to make a cigar? Well,

Nicholas Melillo 2:13

I would say both. It seems easy when you when you see the process, but it's very entailed. And there's a lot of nuance to it. And it is a difficult process. There's a lot of hands, it's totally what I do is totally handmade. So if you make any mistakes, they can cause many problems way down the line

Nick VinZant 2:39

is that when you look at like the quality of cigar, is it the ingredients going into it? Is it the way it's made?

Nicholas Melillo 2:47

It starts with really good black tobacco is what we call cigar tobacco. So we call cigar tobacco, black Dark Air Cured tobacco, which is very different from say what's used in cigarette, which is what we call flue cured or bright Burley's different types of tobacco. Those tobaccos are cured when they come out of the fields say within a week's time, where cigar tobacco is naturally fermented over years. So basically, what we're doing is controlled composting almost. So we take tobacco in hands in 7000 pound piles, and just the combination of moisture from the leaf and pressure from the weight of the pile triggers the fermentation process. So quality tobacco, there, there's a lot to that and that's the beginning of being able to have time and the resources to age tobacco properly. In and having really, you know, great a top tobacco that's, that's where it all starts with having a really good ultra premium cigar, this and then the next is the construction and the blend and how it's put together.

Nick VinZant 4:08

So cigar smoke is really different than you know, cigarette smoke. Is it different than pipe smoke like is it completely its own

Nicholas Melillo 4:17

thing? It is 100% its own thing so complete. You can't use cigarette grade tobaccos for cigar handmade cigars nor can you use pipe tobaccos for cigars so they're completely different seed varieties. They're grown in different regions completely different than handmade cigars. Now machine made cigars is a whole different thing. But I deal with again strictly handmade,

Nick VinZant 4:43

how long will it take you then to make one right from not not counting when the crop the crop is planted? Right but from like right after we start the process like how long is it going to take?

Nicholas Melillo 4:55

So after the tobacco comes from the fields It goes into fermentation, let's say that can range depending anywhere from one to three years, sometimes four years. And then it could age and Bails for another year. And then it's passed to the production floor. And then after the cigar is rolled, they usually cure I'm sorry, Agent human doors, down in where I'm at in Nicaragua for another 90 days before they're shipped. So you're talking three years, I would say on an average. And then how long will it take you to like and roll. So hand rolling, usually, you know, a day, we work in pairs in Nicaragua. So every country has a maybe a little different style, that they they used to roll cigars, they work in pairs, so someone punches where we call the filler leaves the inside of the cigar, and then a roller puts on the wrapper leaf. And usually a pair can make anywhere from 200 to 400 cigars a day.

Nick VinZant 6:05

Now does does the other stuff around the cigar matter? Or is it basically like look at tobacco is X percent of it. And the role itself is like, it just makes it look cool.

Nicholas Melillo 6:15

Tobacco, again, is the pillar, if you don't roll them properly, you're going to have a terrible user experience. So if the if the cigar doesn't draw properly, if it's too loose, it's going to burn too hot, it's going to affect the blend. Construction is crucial and having a good user experience. So over the years, I've seen companies go out of business because they've had major quality control problems that you can't go back to, you know, people are spending, you know, anywhere from five to 20 $30 a cigar people work hard. The last thing you want is when you're relaxing is to light up a cigar that doesn't draw that doesn't burn that doesn't taste properly. So the construction and quality control of actually rolling them. That's what I managed for 12 years. I started in Nicaragua in 2003, with one of the smallest cigar factories in in Nicaragua and I left in 2014. We were the largest handmade cigar factory in Nicaragua. So I was overseeing 105,000 Handmade cigars a day. And my main, my main role was quality control. Excuse me. Quality control was a crucial part of my everyday job.

Nick VinZant 7:35

How did you get started in like, what was the initial kind of draw for you?

Nicholas Melillo 7:39

So Connecticut people don't I'm from Connecticut. People don't realize that Connecticut grows some of the best cigar tobacco in the world. North of Hartford, Connecticut. There is a valley called the can Yeah, it's actually the Connecticut so Connecticut's relationship with Cuba pre 1959. Cuban Connecticut had a very old relationship in as you know, maybe many places in the United States had cigar factories. Here in Connecticut, there was a ton of cigar factories in the early 1900s. All of the cigars produced here use Cuban filler. So the inside of the cigar, and the outside was Connecticut wrapper. We were really known for the outside leaf, which is a whole different growing process. But Connecticut actually means in in Mohawk, Mohegan, I'm sorry, along the Great tidal river. So the Connecticut River is 406 miles long. It passes through four states. It starts on the border of New Hampshire, and Canada. It used to be a gigantic finger lake at the end of the last ice age. It was called Lake Hitchcock. It was gigantic. Eventually that lake eroded and broke and started funneling into the Long Island Sound. But it left 30,000 acres north of Harford is very sandy loam soil hill that was perfect for growing black, dark AIRCARE tobacco for cigars. So this goes back to the late 1600s. And before that, of course, the indigenous communities have used tobacco for you know, we think 5000 5000 years. So So Canet being from Connecticut, I grew up all my family smoked Connecticut cigars, my great grandfather's smoked cigars out of factories in New Haven, Connecticut. My grandfather's so when I was 18, I was the cigar guy. I just fell in love with cigars after sharing one with my grandfather. It was an amazing experience to be able to sit down you know, when you're 18 and have a cigar with your grandfather was sort of a coming of, of age, and like read We'd a high school and I used to go into the cigar shop called Calabash shop. And there was lines out the humidor, there was two women that ran that owned the shop. And this one particular day, I get all the way up to the cash register after waiting in line. And I said, Listen, I'd love to work for you guys. I knew every cigar in that humidor, I know the whole process. I would love to work for you guys. And I didn't hear from him for two months. And a week before I started university, they called me and that's how I got my start in the industry. So I started running the cigar shop while I was studying international business at that university.

Nick VinZant 10:40

They not like But starting your own company that right that was that. Like the always the goal, or was that just the opportunity was there and

Nicholas Melillo 10:49

I jumped out at so I you know, I run this, this cigar shop for all my universe for years. And I met this crazy guy from New York who starred in a cigar factory in Nicaragua. And we met in 98 and kept in touch over about a five year period. I left school and I I always just wanted to travel. So i i circumnavigated the globe, I went to Italy, I lived in Rome and worked with the Vatican, and then bought and around the world ticket and went through India, Southeast Asia. So this gentleman that I had met was on my email list. So I'm traveling all around the world, going to Nicaragua in the early 2000s wasn't really a thing. So I think he as he's getting my emails emerging from, you know, Southeast Asia, he said, Oh, I, you know, Nick will probably come live in Nicaragua. So he, he offered me a job to go work in, in Nicaragua in March of 2003. So I was traveling around the world for a year, I got back to the States for a month, and then moved down to Nicaragua. And, and had been down there the majority of my time over the past 1818 years. So I've helped this company. And then at one point, I said, you know, if, if I'm working this hard, I should probably start my own company. And it was tough to make that

Nick VinZant 12:23

decision. Is it a profitable business? I mean, obviously, it's a profitable business, right. But we'll be talking like, once you get going, this is easy money, or you got to scrape for everything that you got.

Nicholas Melillo 12:34

It's it's definitely not easy, man, we have a very interesting perception, because we're selling leisure and relaxation. So there's this outside perception that oh, man, that would be so cool to work with cigars. And that must be the greatest job ever, behind the sea scenes, it is a very difficult business and the money is good, but it takes a lot of money to get started. And a lot of you know, just think about three years of fermentation, you're sitting on money for three years before, and that distinguishes what makes a really ultra premium cigar. And not you can ferment tobacco much faster. And that's what's happening is a lot of people are, they don't have the money to sit on tobacco for three years. You know, but they can cure it really fast. Get it out in the product. But there's a tremendous difference in flavor. It's, it's almost like my grandmother's pasta sauce. I'm Italian, my family is Italian, it's the difference between pop and open a can of sauce, thrown it on the stove, cooking it and my grandmother, slow he eight hours a day. fresh ingredients and preserving once you start turning that heat up, you start losing a lot of the good goodness, the flavor to the elements. And once you do it fast, so it's slow and steady, which really preserves the natural oils and flavor. And it's the same with cigar tobacco.

Nick VinZant 14:09

This may be stereotyping a little bit right. But working in Nicaragua and Honduras in the early 2000s. I would imagine that came with some extra stuff besides just normal business

Nicholas Melillo 14:19

operations. Yeah, Chow. At first, it's really exciting. And you don't see the challenge. I was 24 and you're in a new place. You're you're in a new culture as time goes on. Things get a little bit more more challenging and culture and I'm in the north of Nicaragua. So I live in a place called esta Li, which is about two hours north of the capital. And it's pretty much a farming city town. And if you're a city person, it's a very difficult place to be after a while. But if it wasn't for the Nicaraguan People, I probably wouldn't be there till today. I mean, people welcomed me in and have treated me like a king and family. And they're very appreciative. You know, the north of Nicaragua, so many people are employed by the cigar industry, so many families from the cigar industry. And it makes a huge difference, because there's not many other options when it comes to jobs.

Nick VinZant 15:28

Did you ever have to kind of go around any criminal elements or am I being overly dramatic

Nicholas Melillo 15:34

here? Yeah, you're being a little overly dramatic. In movies, right. And most people do, you know, and I had that perception moving down there. Keeble, it's one of the safest countries in Central America. So I feel safer in Nicaragua than I do and in cities here in Connecticut,

Nick VinZant 15:58

what is it about that place? Like why is that special?

Nicholas Melillo 16:01

So you know, Castro confiscates most of the cigar factories and 5960. Most of the tobacco fields, so many Cuban families flee in the cigar world at which people don't realize many of the master blenders and master tobacconist, fully Cuba, looking for similar climates as certain growing regions in Cuba, Pinar del Rio, there's an area well, avato these are two very famous growing regions. So Nicaragua, is has the most active volcanoes in Central America. Okay, the Ring of Fire, Nicaragua actually means in narwhal, the local language, the land of lakes and volcanoes. So there's two very large lakes and the volcanic soil is just so rich. And I mean, you can just drop seeds, and things are growing. So in the early 60s, mid 60s, Cubans started bringing Cuban seed to Nicaragua. And they started getting incredible results, destroying the complexity of the leaf. If you see now with Cigar Aficionado, the top 25 cigars 16 of the top 25 were from Nicaragua this past year, and most people don't realize is again that many of the Cuban masters left Cuba, if you're a cigar smoker, you know, a lot of times Cubans are just known because you can't get

Nick VinZant 17:36

them. So like, okay, when I don't know anything about cigars, and I was born without a sense of smell. So my knowledge is never going to be very good. But like, what makes in your opinion, like what makes a good cigar? What should I be looking for?

Nicholas Melillo 17:55

So everybody has a different palette. This is the first thing is is what's the best cigar in the world, the one you enjoy the most. So we're really as cigar shops and tobacconist trying to find the right land for the right palette. So usually, someone that's newer to cigar smoking tobacco is a powerful plant, a very sacred, powerful plant. So you wouldn't give someone a blend that is very strong, or, you know, something that would be even, you know, rated high and Cigar Aficionado. If that's a stronger blend, usually a newer smoker is not going to enjoy something that's that's really strong. So you're looking for something milder. You know, really just looking for something that's not cheating the palate, that's not bitter. That's not, you know, overly strong. Balance is the key. Right? I blend cigars. That's the trick in creating a good cigar is is balance. And that takes just years of, of knowledge and know how and learning. You know how tobaccos work together. But you get you want to find the right cigar for the right, the right palette. So a lot of times people are just not educated or they don't get the right advice from maybe a cigar shop and they're given or they might get a cigar at a wedding. Or they might get one as a gift and then they leave it in their house. It's not humidified, they smoke it a month later it's dry. It's you know, it's it's disgusting. And then they smoke it and think that's what a cigar is. And that kind of deters a lot of people from smoking, smoking cigars, so it's all about finding the right cigar for the right consumer. I hope I answered.

Nick VinZant 19:55

Right like it can be kind of all like you have to find what's right for you like I he drink enough whiskey that like now I know like, Okay, I don't like that. I do like this. There you go. But at the beginning it was just kind of like, well, it's all over the place.

Nicholas Melillo 20:11

Right? Yeah, yeah, it's the same thing. Same thing with wine. Our palates are, are very interesting. It really is the nose, which is picking up a lot of the flavor. You know, our palate has four to 6000 flavor receptors on it. And we're really registering the five major flavors, or is it sweet, salty, bitter? Savory, like acid. Yeah, acidic. I think you're right. Yeah. That sour. That's it. That's it. That's only five. You know, real flavors. Really, your old factory has millions of receptors. So where are you getting the vanillas, the chocolates that that's actually coming from your olfactory. And that's why people getting COVID You know, a lot of times they're losing their sense of smell, you're really losing your sense of taste. Because if you lose your sense of smell, you're basically losing more than 50% of your taste. So that's really when you get into things and you see this with coffee or wine. really developing your your old factory is crucial in really learning tobacco to that kind of next stage. So we don't inhale cigars. But we do something called retro Hayling, which is basically where you're taking smoke and you're exhaling through your nose. And that's where you're kind of your, your, that's when you really start getting into the next kind of level of flavor. Understanding cigars.

Nick VinZant 21:49

Oh, I see. So you're like, but you're not your ex.

Nicholas Melillo 21:54

Yeah, it's just basically being funneled through the bag. It's never going into your lungs. Cigars are not intended to be inhaled into your lungs at all.

Nick VinZant 22:04

To most people smoke cigars the right way.

Nicholas Melillo 22:07

There's a lot of MIS education, I think about cigars. And we're really on a mission over the next five years is to really train people and consumers because it does. It does differentiate have, you know, people staying in our industry, we're such a small industry neck, you know, not many people smoke handmade cigars. It's a very small fraction of the population. And I think a lot of times it is because of education, that people don't stay in it because they they do have maybe a negative experience and they're not being shown properly. They're not being led, first of all to the right blend, you know, and then they're not really knowledgeable of how to cut it and light it properly, which all affects the blend in the taste of the cigar.

Nick VinZant 22:59

So when you blend a cigar, right, like are most cigars blended or is it basically just one crop of tobacco, like how do you blend it?

Nicholas Melillo 23:09

So I used generally for my blends for foundation cigars, I'm using filler. So the inside leaves are generally from Nicaragua. Nicaragua just has such rich, flavorful, tobacco. This is why it's it's becoming more and more well known within the handmade cigar, cigar world. So you take different seed varieties, you take different land, you take different positioning of where the tobacco is located, that completely changes the flavor of the tobacco. So from there, you can get 1000s of different potential blend combinations. Then you take the leaf that goes around the filler, which is underneath the wrapper is called the binder that's holding the filler together. That's usually from different countries. Connecticut, Ecuador, grows cigar tobacco, Honduras, the Dominican Republic, Sumatra, is known for growing cigar tobacco, Brazil, there's an area called Bahia in Brazil, which is one of the oldest tobacco growing regions. So from all these different options, you can create blends and all these tobaccos kind of work differently together. And it's it's really about understanding the different flavor profiles and being able to put those together properly. You know, it's I think the difference of having, I'm not I'm not the greatest cook, but if you give, you know certain great ingredients to make and a real chef, you're going to have two different you know, very drastically different results. So

Nick VinZant 25:03

now you did I think the question that I would have, you know, is like so when you when you go through a blend, like how many will you try out before like, Okay, this is the right one? Like, how long will it take you to get to that final product for that variety.

Nicholas Melillo 25:18

For me like now with just the experience that I've had, I've been able to develop my own techniques that I find work for what I'm looking to do. So generally, I'm developing, maybe seven to 10 at the most different blends. And then from those seven blends, I'm able to maybe make a little tweaks here and there, and then get what I'm looking for. So like the cigar I'm smoking right now, it's called all Mac, it's our homage to actually Mexican San Andreas tobacco, which is San Andreas is one of the oldest growing regions in the world. Also, it actually predates the Cuban scene. But this took me seven blends. So seven blends, and I had the range where I was at made a little tweak. What's happening before that, though, is where we call on smoking, what we call tabacky are those where I'm reviewing bales of tobacco. And I'm inspecting bales and rolling little cigars, and just smoking the bales to check for flavor. So I'll smoke individual components first. And then I'll end up bringing all those components together. If that makes sense. Yeah, it's

Nick VinZant 26:39

kind of like, if there was a line of I use whiskey or scotch or whatever. It's kind of like, take a little sip and like, okay, that one's this place. And maybe we'll go with that one. Can you? Can you pretty much eyeball it. Like, can you look at tobacco in its refined form or whatever? It'd be like, sweet salad. Can you look at it?

Nicholas Melillo 26:59

It depends on if I know who it's coming from. And I know who's growing it. The main test for me is the aroma. So the aroma and inspection of the aroma. Looking at it definitely you you're getting signs, but you need kind of the three major that the touch, the taste, and the visual is going to give you everything you need. So I would never really just go based on looks, although if it tobacco is green, you're going to know it's not cured properly. If it's too dark, sometimes it can get really black. That means it's been overly fermented. So it's almost like you burn it. So you can tell from that I can tell a lot from the vein structure. You're also when you're inspecting leaf for the outside of the cigar, it has to be visually perfect. So wrapper leaf on the outside leaf is much thinner, silkier. And it needs to be perfect color can't be any blemishes. It's the most expensive leaf in the blend, because it has to be almost perfect. And you're dealing with natural. Yeah, you're dealing with crops, you're dealing with, you know, a natural product, it's not being put together in a lab. And it's not a widget which I tell my customers a lot of times, you know, it's it's a very detailed process,

Nick VinZant 28:24

how different is it going to be like, I know these are hard to kind of quantify right? And I my brain thinks in math terms, which isn't really the best way. But like how different okay, you get this exact crop, same region, same guy grow in it, same people working at same, like how different can you expect things to be from year to

Nicholas Melillo 28:43

year? They can be very different man. I mean, we're growing right now in the Connecticut River Valley. Right. So north of here about where I'm where I'm at 40 minutes is, is harvest time, so it'll be up there Friday. Hard luckily this year, we've had a great year. With weather last year was the rainiest Connecticut and 50 years 20% of the crop made it through. Oh, so 20% and most farmers had to plow under the fields because they get insurance money. Otherwise there would be no industry up there. This year the crop is looking great. But you can see a beautiful crop in the fields. It goes then to the curing barns where it needs to go for another 7075 days. If you don't know what you're doing in the curing barn, or you're not paying attention that beautiful crop in the field field can go to crap overnight if you're not looking at it properly it's same thing then when it goes to yours and fermentation You know guys would see me in front of fermentation piles 7000 pound piles and oh man, that's the coolest job. It's a great there's nothing more stressful than having tobacco and fermentation because as it can be destroyed literally overnight if you're not paying attention, and it can then damage the flavor. And it can completely affect the blends that you're trying to come out with. So there's a lot that goes into it, you got to be on it all the time. Otherwise it can, it can go bad pretty quick. And then you're, you're out not only money and investment, but then the time you can't, you can't get back. So you can be carrying tobacco for two years. You have all that time and money. If it goes bad, and you don't have a backup, then you don't have production.

Nick VinZant 30:39

Mother Nature doesn't give you a second chance, does it?

Nicholas Melillo 30:42

It doesn't. It doesn't.

Nick VinZant 30:44

Brutal in its honesty. Right?

Nicholas Melillo 30:47

It really is. And that's why our industry, it does seem really simple from the outside. But when you're when you're in it, it's what seems simple is very detail oriented and complex.

Nick VinZant 31:03

Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? I would love it. Best place to smoke a cigar, front porch, bar, or other.

Nicholas Melillo 31:18

If I had to choose, I would say front porch. Yeah, you know, just for me, again, it depends on what kind of mood you're in. But front porch in a book, or some good company, that that's the place you know, I grew up, my father built a little little house, we called it it was one of these prefab sheds, ya know. So he ended up putting a little pellet stove in there, rug and a table. And that's where, you know, my grandfather, my brother, and I would would have a cigar. And that was happening. So I tend to lean on the more peaceful settings and environments. Although a cigar bar could be cool on a Friday night.

Nick VinZant 32:03

What's really better smoking the cigar or holding the cigar?

Nicholas Melillo 32:12

Smoking the cigar.

Nick VinZant 32:14

There's some Okay, I will admit to this. And I think one of our listeners call me out on this. I don't smoke cigars. But if I've had some edibles, which I really enjoy edibles, I like the feeling of holding a cigar. There's something about it that makes me feel kind of cool. Like what do you think it is about it?

Nicholas Melillo 32:35

That's a good question, man. I never really thought it at length. But it's, it's like almost something that you take your companion almost, you know, you don't feel whereas if you're just alone, and you got nothing, you're kinda like, you know, you got nothing. But a cigar is like, oh, man, this is cool. It's got a cool kind of perception. And I would say it's like your companion.

Nick VinZant 33:01

There's something just kind of cool about it. This this. This leads into another question, though. And maybe this is that this person is not trying to be offensive. I think they're actually asking this question. How can I make sure that I don't look? They use the word douchey holding a cigar, because I noticed looking at people smoking cigars, like some people can look kind of like oh, like they're sweaty all the time. That kind of douchey look, and some people can look like a person looks sweet. How do you how do you rate me write that? You look like a Cuban General. Okay, like that's an that's meant as a compliment, right? Like, you look like somebody who is naturally having a good time smoking a cigar, not like kind of the frat boy party. Cheap

Nicholas Melillo 33:52

cigars. And I think that's the difference is just your comfortability with it. And your confidence in it. You know, if you don't feel comfortable with it, or you're, you know, that comes across very easily.

Nick VinZant 34:09

Yeah, it's kind of like, are you smoking it because you enjoy it? Or are you smoking to look cool and the ones smoking? Cool? Yeah. douchey right. They lose it. You can't lose it. You gotta back it together.

Nicholas Melillo 34:23

No, I'm gonna say that's tough. Like, you can't you can't fake that. Yeah,

Nick VinZant 34:27

it's got to be genuine. If it's genuine, you can pull it off. Now. Okay, so where is the cigar business hours? Is it up? Down? Same as it ever was.

Nicholas Melillo 34:37

Let me tell you, man, since COVID It it it we've been in a mini boom. So I think people being home, allowed them more time to actually learn about cigars and maybe understand them more. And also because now people are working from home. So you We're not in an office all day. So we're you would have had maybe one cigar at the end of the day, or maybe on the weekend. Now people, especially in the summertime, you have your computer, you're in your back, backyard, you're on your porch, you're able to have a cigar while you're working. So it's been really amazing to see the industry strive. I mean, we're not growing in leaps and bounds, you know, that maybe we're up at I think about 3%. This quarter and overall imports of of handmade cigars into the United States.

Nick VinZant 35:34

Is there. Right, like, okay, there's the health concern question, right, that either wherever it is, in terms of whatever it is, right, but is there still? Is there a stigma around cigars? Do you feel like you guys are always kind of fighting that

Nicholas Melillo 35:51

we've been through some really serious battles with the FDA over the past two years, and we luckily, have been able to been carved out and not regulated like cigarettes and machine made cigars. So they've been coming at us, I've been fighting this via our trade organization, cigar rights of America, which I encourage any cigar smokers to join. And we've been really working hard and educating Washington that, first of all, kids don't smoke our products. This is not something where, you know, kids have 10 $20 of disposable income to smoke cigars. What has been increasing is machine made cigars that are being purchased in C stores, convenience stores, and gas stations, because of the legalization of cannabis, that market has exploded, you know, so, and those are generally 99 cent. They're generally homogenized what we call homogenized tobacco, which was actually developed in Connecticut 1955. It's basically tobacco dust, and paper that's made on these huge machines, and rolled out. And those are generally sold in gas stations and convenience stores. To give you an idea of the difference, you know, handmade cigars between Nicaragua, Honduras, and the Dominican, you're probably looking about 320 million units that are imported into the United States, which seems like a lot, but the machine made mark it is at about 15 billion units. So 15 billion, oh, say 300 300 million, so and then that's just machine made cigars, that doesn't include all the other tobacco products, cigarettes, you know, smokeless tobacco, so we are less than a fraction of a percent. When you look at the overall pie of tobacco products. So, you know, we've always argued that we're not selling to, to kids, this is not, you have to be ID D need to go into a cigar shop. And you're not, you know, there are health effects with everything. You know, drinking with, of course, smoking, but, you know, they're compared to something that's being inhaled into your lungs. It's complete, the FDA actually released studies that two to three cigars a week had zero or little health impacts. And, you know, it's, again, it all depends. My grandfather just passed away a couple of years ago, and he was 94. He smoked cigars since World War Two, you know. You know, it's not the greatest argument, but we know a lot of people that have smoked cigars. A lot of art. People argue that it's really a stress really was cigar smoking. Larry David and Seinfeld had a great piece on cars, cars and comedians getting coffee. Yeah. You know, I said, What is it about a cigar that and Larry David said, a cigar is is relaxing. It's this. You have time. A cigarette is? Your Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it's a stress. It's a it's a habit. It's something so when you're smoking a cigar, it's it is time it's relaxation, which I think definitely has, you know, good, good benefits.

Nick VinZant 39:29

Since since you brought up a celebrity we'll go into this one celebrity who knows their stuff?

Nicholas Melillo 39:36

That's a great question. I mean, as far as cigars, some of your Michael Jordan's a big cigar smoker, although he's, I think a big Cuban fan. I think he's just starting now to, to a lot of people are starting to discover the world of Nicaraguan cigars. I would say he knows what he's doing. I think Larry David actually knows his cigars pretty well. i A friend of mine, D nice. He was from one of the first hip hop bands. He knows stuff really well, he's a, he's a famous DJ, there's a lot a lot of guys behind the scenes that really, really know their stuff. So guys that really get into it. Joe Rogan right now is really getting into it his I think he's come a long way over the past, like three years of what he's kind of learning and knowing about cigars.

Nick VinZant 40:35

Is that kind of your experience with people right? When they get once they get turned on to them? Like they go? It seems like something that people get into?

Nicholas Melillo 40:44

Yeah, it's because there's a lot to it. And I think once people have a picture of, of the world, it becomes very, the cigar world, it becomes very interesting. And the process, there's not many processes, you know, this process of handmade cigars is this almost the same that it's been for the past, you know, 200 years. So there's not many industries, I think that still exists that, you know, existed 200 years ago. And really, when you start getting into it, it's it is an amazing world to learn about the process. And then just to who you meet, from the cigar world, you know, working in a cigar store, you meet people that you wouldn't normally meet, or would converge in the same place. And the vehicle is cigars. So I would I would meet and still you'd meet billionaires, blue collared workers, musicians, artists, all of these different types of people come to this one place that normally I don't think would ever spend time together.

Nick VinZant 41:49

Like, is there a price point? That is the sweet spot? That you would say like, Oh, you don't have to spend this much. But you need to spend this much like, is there a price point where somebody either with your business or with others, they'd be like, That's it, you're gonna do pretty well right there.

Nicholas Melillo 42:05

So I would answer that in two part, I would say between nine and $15, you can get really amazing cigars, amazing cigars, top rated, amazing cigars. You could also get a really good cigar between five we make a cigar called Charter Oak, which is my homage to Connecticut, and Connecticut cigar World Charter Oak is the image of actually the symbol of Hartford, Connecticut. And we received the number one best value cigar from Cigar Aficionado. And so you can get a great cigar between five you're not going to get the depth and complexity that you're going to get in the range between nine to 15. But what you're getting is really good for the price point. So it would be more of a cigar that you would you know maybe if you're cutting the lawn, or you're kind of doing things and you don't have the time to really sit down and focus on something that would kind of be more than a cigar. You know for you but between nine and $15 man you're, you know, you're getting an amazing, you know, some of the best tobaccos in the world. I think a lot of the other price points a lot of times it's you know it is marketing. I'm coming out this November with the most expensive cigar that I've ever come out with but it's for a special reason. We're doing the 100th year anniversary of King Tut's discovery. This is a replica of a box that was discovered within King Tut's tomb. So I work yeah, I work with a company a place called high clear that Soloman isn't the school. We actually have the Yale Egyptologists work on all of the hieroglyphs, so they're legit. So I work with Highclere Castle in England, Highclere Castle is owned by Lord Carnarvon, whose great grandfather discovered King Tut's tomb with Howard Carter. He funded Howard Carter and was an amateur archaeologist. So I make a cigar it's the only cigar I make for someone else called Highclere Castle. And they tapped me to make 100 year anniversary of King Tut's cigar in November because his great grandfather smoked cigars, and with smoking cigars when the tomb was discovered. So this is going to be one of my most pricey projects, but there's a lot that goes into it.

Nick VinZant 44:41

How much? How much yourself?

Nicholas Melillo 44:43

30 30,000? Yeah, yeah, no, this is I mean, again, you know, for everyday smokers. You don't have to be spending a crazy amount of money.

Nick VinZant 44:59

That is is one of the questions right and I'm sure you knew we're gonna get this one it's like most expensive cigar you've ever smoked. And was it worth it?

Nicholas Melillo 45:07

The most most expensive one, what I would say was probably a Cuban from 1945. It was a hard to guess that a friend gave me that would probably be the most expensive cigar. It's really about the experience of having something that old what, as far as you know, the blend, a lot of times these older cigars is this misconception, conception that always older is better. And when it comes to aging cigars, and there's, it's not always the case. And a lot of times is that tobacco is it's a it's an alive living plant. With that much time it loses a lot of cellular structure. And a lot of its its flavor, or at least time. So it was good. It was very mild. But I don't know if I would, you know actively if I kind of access purchase, you know, cigars and and smoke those cigars if I was in the in the position to do so even if I had you know, money to spend on cigars are that expensive? How much

Nick VinZant 46:14

would that have been that? That's a good question. It's

Nicholas Melillo 46:18

probably probably in the $500 range from what three to $500 for one cigar.

Nick VinZant 46:25

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, we interviewed a guy who was a whiskey critic. And then I'll combining that interview in my mind with a documentary I watched about whisky and all those guys who like the master blenders, they're like, we like we drink stuff that's six years old. The older stuffs really not that. Not that great. Same.

Nicholas Melillo 46:43

You'll find that with cigar. You know? I've worked with mainly Cubans and it's the same way. You know, a lot of these tobacco guy they they chew on their cigars, you know, but a lot of that is Mystique a lot of it is is the rarity the supply and demand that's what really drives that's what the price is there's only X amount of boxes you know, it's the same with with the cigar I'm doing the King Tut cigar. There's only gonna be 700 boxes. You know, it's it's supply and demand a lot of times

Nick VinZant 47:17

this one this one might require some thought man, movie or TV show in which the person looked coolest holding a cigar like, oh, that

Nicholas Melillo 47:31

that was a cold Christmas. Yeah. Oh, you know what I would say? I would say Gene Hackman, Chris Chris Chrisman Chrisman tied with Denzel Washington. Is it Christmas?

Nick VinZant 47:45

It's either. I think it's crazy. Oh, crap. Once you try to say it you I can't say it crimson.

Nicholas Melillo 47:51

I know. Crimson. What does that even mean? I'll cheer

Nick VinZant 47:55

reddish. I guess I always thought it was a movie about That's Ryan. But again, kill crimson.

Nicholas Melillo 48:01

Have you seen it? No. It's a great movie. Oh, it's in a phenomenal movie. I just Crimson Tide. Gene Hackman,

Nick VinZant 48:09

I know what movie you're talking about. It's the it's submarines and shit. Correct. The reason that I haven't watched it is because there was a movie called Prince of Tides, which was a romantic comedy that I was like, I'm not watching anything about Thai see, right. Oh, yeah,

Nicholas Melillo 48:26

conceivable. There's a great scene at the beginning of the movie before the submerge. And it's Gene Hackman, Denzel Washington. As their I don't know what you call the lookout point. And they're just getting ready to submerge. And he's smoking a cigar and gives Denzel one. And there's this moment of silence. And he said, You didn't mess it up. You let the silence go. Gene Hackman, the dead zone most people would want to occupy the space and would chitchat and you just enjoyed the moment. And they're smoking. You smoking a cigar and he looks badass because he's comfortable. You can tell he's, he's a cigar smoker. And he's cool.

Nick VinZant 49:12

The only one I was thinking of when they mentioned it was in I can't remember if it's predator or Commando, but I think it's predator Arnold Schwarzenegger is like, like, you can see he's got it all the time. Like he had it down.

Nicholas Melillo 49:27

Arnold's a big cigar smoker? Yeah, he knows his stuff. Yeah, to

Nick VinZant 49:31

do it, right. Um, but again,

Nicholas Melillo 49:33

it's what you like to it's like when you know, no, you know, your stuff is what you like, who's to tell you what you should be enjoying and what you shouldn't be enjoying? I think he gets clicky a lot of times when you go into cigar shops, maybe, you know it gets like you know, the real hardcore guys, you know, think they they kind of know everything and it's really about again what you enjoy

Nick VinZant 49:59

that's all Questions that got me? Is there anything else you think people should know? Or what's kind of coming up for you? Where can people find you? Where can people get the cigars? All of that kind of stuff?

Nicholas Melillo 50:07

So WW foundation cigars.com I think I forgot to W but you guys know figure it out. Foundation cigars.com We have a great store locator. We don't sell directly to consumers. So we only sell via cigar shops throughout the country. So you can find on our website, a store locator for a shop near you. We're all over Instagram foundation cigars. I am under Nick. Our agua. That's my Ah, see Graham. I like it and I are like agua, we are actually gearing up to open up a brand new office on 100 acre tobacco farm in the Connecticut River Valley. So it's really going to become the forefront of foundation cigars, this connection between Connecticut and Nicaragua. So I hope to embark on educating a lot more people about the history of cigars and tobacco within the Connecticut River Valley because it's it's really a national treasure. It's the Napa Valley of of Connecticut. And I'm hoping we're gonna get into our new office. It's been a lot of delays here over the past few years with supply chain and COVID. So in September, we're looking forward to moving in and then hope hopefully next season we'll be able to have people come up and and eventually start tours to really educate people about the process. So I'd love to have you up at some time.

Nick VinZant 51:37

Yeah, man ever and not know that Connecticut was big into cigars. I would have never known that.

Nicholas Melillo 51:44

Yeah, they you know, most of the guys are farmers. So they really over the past 100 years didn't do a great job marketing at all. Yeah, too busy working. Work right too busy working. Yeah, a lot of farmers are not necessarily marketing inclined to, to marketing in general. And the state hasn't really done a great job because of course, tobacco politically, tobacco doesn't have any, you know, it's not positive for any politicians to kind of back. So we're, we're kind of taking the lead with some of my friends in the valley and new generations of of tobacco growers there to educate the world about the Connecticut River Valley.