Look younger, regrow hair, eliminate wrinkles, have perfect skin and hair: cosmetic companies make a lot of claims. But do you know what’s really in the products you put on your body. Cosmetic Chemist Valerie George knows what cosmetic products work and which ones don’t. We talk the best skin and hair products, balding, toxic cosmetics, ingredients to look for and the real secret to looking younger. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Band Names and unveil and new Candle of the Month.
Valeria George: 01:44ish
Pointless: 41.50ish
Top 5: 1:00:11ish
nickvinzant@gmail.com (Show Email)
316-530-7719 (Show voicemail)
https://www.instagram.com/cosmetic_chemist/?hl=en (Valerie George Instagram)
https://www.instagram.com/thebeautybrains2018/?hl=en (Beauty Brains Podcast)
http://www.simplyformulas.com (Valerie’s Formula Company - Simply Formulas)
http://www.simply-ingredients.com (Valerie’s Ingredient Company - Simply Ingredients)
Interview with Cosmetic Chemist Valerie George
Nick VinZant 0:00
Hi welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode chemistry and ban? Well, I
Valerie George 0:18
think a lot of ingredients are used for marketing fluff. If brands just say, what's the newest hottest ingredient, let's get that in the product. Many years ago, they had formulas that contained an ingredient that under certain conditions converted to formaldehyde. If we invested the amount of research that goes into other areas for hair growth, I think we'd find something, you know, people are suspecting, you know, that things may help hair to grow back. Really, the only way to turn back time on your skin or to really look younger is,
Nick VinZant 0:55
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. So our first guest is a chemist who specializes in creating formulas for the things that we put on our skin and our hair. And it's really interesting to hear, from a scientific perspective perspective, what works, what doesn't, and what is just marketing. And even if you're somebody who doesn't use these products, I think it's really interesting to learn just how the beauty industry really works, how these different things can affect the body. And for men. Why we haven't figured out how to cure baldness yet. This is cosmetic chemist Valerie George, basically like as a cosmetic chemist, what are you doing?
Valerie George 1:47
Well, I can be doing a lot of things. It depends what my family thinks I do. And then why I actually do in the lab, probably two different things. But for the most part, I am working on a lab bench with cosmetic ingredients. And I'm creating formulas for brands to sell to consumers.
Nick VinZant 2:06
You're using ingredients like what are the ingredients, I don't even know like really what I'm putting on my own bought body honestly.
Valerie George 2:15
Yeah, it's a bunch of different stuff. It could be natural ingredients like oils, or butters or gums, which help thicken formulas, it could be an emulsifier that helps oil and water come together because like Italian dressing, you know, which likes to separate. And then you have to shake it before you use it. The same thing would happen to a cosmetic product unless you emulsify it like creamy Italian dressing. So we may be putting emulsifiers in, we're using preservatives, we're using silicones. We're using petrochemical derived materials that maybe help skin stay moist, or help up product be more pleasing when you apply it. So instead of it being really dry and dragging it might be really slippy and lubricating feeling. So it's a bunch of different stuff. And I think there's probably at least 25,000 ingredients on the market that someone can choose from.
Nick VinZant 3:04
So that's the thing, right? Like you hear 25,000 different products, which for me is like Good lord. Like how much of this stuff this works? How much of this stuff is like, well, we could sell it because it's got a pretty picture on it.
Valerie George 3:20
Yeah, well, I think a lot of ingredients are used for marketing fluff, if if I have to be honest, a lot of them do really great things. A lot of them have great research behind them. But I think a lot of brands just say what's the newest hottest ingredient? Let's get that in a product. And let's talk about it. I think a little bit of that is changing because consumers are smarter. And they're saying well, how much did you put in and then the you know, the brand is being forced to disclose that. But as a chemist, I would say probably a lot of it is, you know, doing the things like it's helping form the structure of the product, it's helping the product feel good when you apply it, it's helping the product, do what it's supposed to do. And then a lot of the other stuff is just marketing fluff, I would say.
Nick VinZant 4:05
So I guess from your if I'm understanding correctly, so I can theory from a chemistry point like this should do something.
Valerie George 4:13
It's either doing something for the formula, or doing something for the consumer when they apply the product. And in theory, you know, when used a certain way, in a formula or used a certain percentage, it could be doing something maybe sometimes it's doing nothing and it's strictly marketing fluff.
Nick VinZant 4:31
Is there anything that you would say like, oh, people should not be doing that, like from a chemistry perspective. Like look, maybe we shouldn't put acid on our bodies.
Valerie George 4:41
I think acids actually a really great example. I think a lot of consumers over exfoliate their skin because you think oh let me get all this dead skin off of my face. Do you do you exfoliate?
Nick VinZant 4:51
I don't know. Okay, well,
Valerie George 4:54
I guess I'm probably not. You probably don't Okay.
Nick VinZant 4:58
My wife has some kind of scrub thing that I put, it's black, it feels like sandpaper, and I wash my face with it. So,
Valerie George 5:06
okay, great. So you're exfoliating with physical exfoliant, but a lot of exfoliants use chemicals to exfoliate the skin because a physical exfoliant is only going to go over the skin surface and physically sandpaper, all the dead skin off of your face, which is great. But to really get all these dead skin cells off, you need to use chemicals to help loosen them. And then you can physically exfoliate. So the chemical exfoliant are usually acids, they're at a very low pH. And people want tons of acids in their skincare products. But it can be really harsh on skin, and then they're exfoliating every single day. So they're over exfoliating their skin, which is making their skin barrier compromised, which is leading to unhealthy skin. So it's kind of doing, you know, the opposite of what they wanted to do. But I would say Yeah, our consumers are over exfoliating, and in general just putting too much stuff on their face at all times.
Nick VinZant 6:04
Is that always been the case? Or has that gotten like a lot worse, like now we're really doing that too much.
Valerie George 6:11
I think it's probably being overdone too much. Because I'm sure people are seeing things on social media and saying, Oh, I have to try this or that or, you know, with a popularity of K beauty. You know, the skin that you see in the imagery of K beauty products is really beautiful. It's like glass, it's so smooth. And now there's dolphin skin, like who wouldn't want skin as smooth and glossy as a dolphin? Right. But I think it's giving an unrealistic expectation of what can be achieved for most people. And so people are over applying these products to try to achieve those looks, I would say people have always used products, right. But I think the over application, or misuse or using ingredients that are too high, too much of the time, I would say that's probably more recent,
Nick VinZant 7:01
when you come up with like a new formula, are you designing the best formula first? And then figuring out like if this is going to work on people? Or do you kind of like alright, well, what's going to be safe for people and then figure out how to do it,
Valerie George 7:16
I think it's probably a bit of both. And everyone has a different approach to doing it. So I'm a minimalist formulator, which means I don't use anything I don't need to use. And I start from that approach first. So I will write down everything that has to go into a certain formula. So for example, if you say, Valerie, I need a hair conditioner for this hair type, and I need it to do these things. I say what has to go in a hair conditioner? Like what's the bare minimum? And this is more thinking about the formula and less for the consumer. So I'll write down all the things that like, okay, a conditioner needs water, it needs oil, it needs an emulsifier it needs a preservative. And then I'll start to say, Okay, but what about the consumer now? So then I'll start to add in the things that I think would benefit and give the performance that a consumer is looking for. And all the while I'm like, How do I keep this within the regulatory limits? So it's safe to use the whole time. Some people have a more is more approach. And they'll just like dump everything they can from the get go in the first in the first pot.
Nick VinZant 8:26
How regulated? Is it? Like? Are the regulations pretty good? Or is it kind of like supplements where basically there is no, no real regulation?
Valerie George 8:34
Well, I think people have a perception that the United States, which would include Canada, they follow a lot of the same regulations as the US is not regulated in terms of cosmetics, and that in the EU, which is much safer. But I think that's an improper way of looking at it. Cosmetics legally are required to be safe to be on the market. That's the regulation and you get there by two ways. Whatever you say is in the bottle has to be in the bottle. And you have to guarantee that it does what it says it does. And that it's safe for the consumer to use. That's the law. So how you get to the safety part is up to the brand to decide. And it's on the responsibility of the brand or the manufacturer to do all the safety testing and make sure it's safe to go to market. In the EU. They actually give you a framework of how you do the safety steps to make sure the product is safe. So the outcome is the same in both geographies if you're doing the work to get there. The other thing that I will say is colorants are actually more regulated in the United States than anywhere else in the world. They actually check every shipment every package of color that comes into the US like a dye for a product or even food coloring. They inspect every shipment and we have a huge risk tryptic colorings list that many other geographies don't have? Is there a reason for that? I think colorants can be dangerous. And they can have impurities. So maybe it's that
Nick VinZant 10:09
when we look at kind of the human body and things like that, like, are we pretty fragile are pretty durable when it comes to what we can kind of put on ourselves,
Valerie George 10:18
I think we're pretty durable. I really think that especially with cosmetics, I mean, a cosmetic is something that is supposed to beautify or cleanse the skin, it's not supposed to cause any physiological changes within your body, that would be considered a drug. That's the definition in most places. And so I think from from that perspective, if it's truly a cosmetic product, you know, I think we're, we're pretty durable, I think there's a lot of other stuff, people should be worried about, like pollution particulate in the air that we're breathing in, or maybe things that we're eating,
Nick VinZant 10:55
um, when you kind of look at different products and different formulas, is, everybody's different. But is everybody really different? Like this works for this person? And it doesn't work for this person? Or is it like it works, or it doesn't work? And maybe it works a little bit better? Or a little bit work? But it's really kind of, we're all kind of the same? Are we all really different?
Valerie George 11:16
That's a great question. I would say it depends on the product and what it's intended to do. So I think most products, whether they're for you, or not for you really depends on the aesthetics. So I have, I used to have really dry skin, now I have combination skin, but when my skin was really dry, it would be appropriate for me to put on really heavy, thick products that were super occlusive because my dry skin needed them and could handle them. Someone who has really oily skin would say, well, that product doesn't work for me, because my skin is very oily, I'm prone to breakouts. And this product would just give me give me more breakouts right. But from if we looked at an actual functionality of the product, let's say the product was designed to combat redness from a functionality perspective, it would still likely cause or combat redness on my skin, which is dry, and your skin, which is oily, it would still do that. But the perception would be this product soft for me because it's occlusive and heavy. I would say a majority of the products try to target as many skin types as possible. And I think consumers are not necessarily great judges of whether or not a product makes a difference or not. I think too when they speak they like it or not. I think they're you know, that's just a general Do I like it or not? Does my skin feel good? When I wear it? Do I like how my skin looks? I don't know that they can actually say, Oh, yes, I see my skin is more firmer or more elastic. I think there's a reason those things have to be validated clinically, for the most part. A lot of products work for most consumers, I would say.
Nick VinZant 13:05
I don't know if this is necessarily your area. Right. But if they do, like clinical trials or whatever the right word should be. I don't know if it's clinical trials. Like, is that stuff usually pretty sound right? Or is it kind of the old Homer Simpson quote of 60? You know, 60 statistics can prove anything. 60% of people know that right? Like, are the clinical trials really sound? Are they like, look, this is funded by x company. And so of course they get this result.
Valerie George 13:33
That's very interesting. I mean, claims testing can be sound and solid A lot of the time. Anytime you see a claim, it's important to say, Okay, well, what did they evaluate it against? Because I think claims testing works, but, you know, marketing manipulates it in some kind of way. Does that answer your question? It's a little Homer Simpson, because marketing twists and contorts it and says, Wow, this is really sensational. But then the test data are just facts. It's how you how you spin it,
Nick VinZant 14:05
right? It's kind of like numbers can prove anything. If you want them to prove something, right, you can find a way to make this work.
Valerie George 14:12
You can design the study to make it work. Yeah.
Nick VinZant 14:16
Is there a like, is there a part of the body or an aspect of the body that like, this part is a lot harder in the sense that like, look, anybody can do this for the hand, but wait till you get to lips wait till you get to hair like what's the difficult part of it?
Valerie George 14:33
You know, so I was on the skin side before I've dabbled in color cosmetics and you know, just personally I didn't like them. And then hair I really loved hair because it's so instantaneous like your hair either looks good, or it doesn't when you apply a product to it, whereas skin I think is like a longer term payoff. You're like wow, I hope in 20 years this eye cream I pay $200 for is making a difference. You just have to like hope for that you'll never really know right now And then I've hired people who suffer me hair is really easy. It's something that comes naturally to me. Whereas I've hired chemists who say, Oh, yeah, I can make a shampoo, I can make a conditioner. And then they come into my hair lab. And they're like, Wow, this is really hard. And you know, they didn't think it would be that challenging to create a styling product or conditioner that worked for most hair types or a specific hair type. Conversely, I've had people leave my lab from hair. And they've had like, a really good training and hair, then they go to skin and they're like, Oh, my God, what do I do? I have no idea what to do. You know, they're just like, paralyzed. I found that. Anytime I try to talk to people about hair color chemistry, if I have a challenge, or I'm looking for an ingredient, I'll say, oh, it's for hair color project, and then they clam up, because they're like, Wow, that's so hard. And I'm like, okay, pretend I never use the word hair color. What advice would you give me? And all of a sudden, they're fine. So I think a lot of it's in the mind, I think a lot of it's, you know, if you know, the subject matter, and you have good critical thinking skills, you're gonna do just fine in any sub sect. But you know, for me, like nails would be hard, because that's really like a polymers and coatings, chemistry, right? So just depends,
Nick VinZant 16:20
like, where along the lines of evolution, are we kind of with this? Are we just getting started? Or are we more towards the like, we kind of figured out everything we can pretty much do and the rest is going to be marketing spin at this point. Like if one was just beginning, and we are at the end, like, where do you think we would be,
Valerie George 16:39
you know, for skin, I think we're starting to, you know, we know a lot about skin, its physiology, what's happening inside the skin mechanisms that work with different ingredients, there's, I feel like we're pretty good there, there's probably a lot more research to be had. But, you know, if we stopped doing research today, I think we'd be in a pretty good spot from a consumer perspective. One area of skin that's a bit of a hot topic in cosmetic chemistry is the microbiome. And the microbiome speaks to the natural bacteria and other micro organisms, yeast that live on our skin, were covered in these micro organisms, and they live in a certain balance with each other. And there's a school of thought that when this balance gets out of balance, that's when different skin conditions may arise. Or it may lead to an increase in underarm odor, or something like that. So that's a really hot and heavy area of research within skincare that I think we've just, you know, put our little fingernail into, we're not even like, we haven't even put our foot into it yet. But there's cosmetic chemists who will say that that's not a real thing, or, you know, they're really skeptical on whether it adds value or not. So that's an area where I would say we don't know anything in the scope of things. And we need to learn a whole lot more. When it comes to hair. Hair is very interesting, because it really had its golden age of research in the 60s. And after that hair research really slow down until perm chemistry in the 80s. That really slowed down after people stopped getting firms in the 90s. And so I think people thought, oh, hair is biologically dead. We've learned everything we absolutely, absolutely need to know about hair, and it slowed down a bit. But now there's been a resurgence in hair research. Because since the 1960s, or 70s, we have new instrumentation, we have new knowledge, new ways of looking at things. And so people are going back and looking at hair and saying, Wow, there's actually a ton of stuff we didn't even know. And you know, they're making lots of interesting discoveries.
Nick VinZant 18:39
I feel like I can speak for all men in some regards. And that as long as my hair is Yeah, I don't care. Like don't don't go Jinx there. Yeah, just don't even look at it. Like, look at my hair. Don't you guys, come on.
Valerie George 18:55
You bring up such an excellent point. Because I would say in hair growth. If we invested the amount of research that goes into other areas for hair growth, I think we'd find something I think for hair growth, like, yeah, Minoxidil is around. But other than that, you know, people are suspecting, you know, that things may help hair to grow back. The mechanisms are complicated, but I think if we could put more resources there, we may come up with some viable options.
Nick VinZant 19:24
How are we not doing? Yeah, like, I feel like men would pay a lot of money. I mean, I know some guys Yeah. Whoa.
Valerie George 19:31
I mean, companies are researching, but they're not putting the same funds towards that as they are as maybe, you know, novel therapies for treating disease. I think, you know, hair loss is kind of lower on the totem pole when it comes to cancer research and probably rightfully so. Right. But I think if you if we did throw a lot of money at it, I think there's a lot of stuff that we could learn.
Nick VinZant 19:54
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?
Valerie George 19:58
harder questions? Oh, I Don't know what works. There is no miracle product for anti aging. A lot of people will say, What can I use to turn back time for the wrinkles on my skin? And the answer is nothing, probably not even plastic surgery. But you can use sunscreen sunscreen is the best anti aging product because it prevents the wrinkles from forming or reduces them the propensity of their formation before it even starts. So if you can wear sunscreen every day, no matter what, reapply, and do that diligently and you should see some really good results as you progress through your years versus someone who's unprotected.
Nick VinZant 20:40
Does the SPF stuff matter? Right Do I need is 15 different than like I've seen SPF I feel like 500 out there. Right Is that is that different?
Valerie George 20:50
Yeah, I would say the most important thing is to wear a sunscreen that you you like I mean SPF 15 is a good minimum to wear. The sunscreen should be broad spectrum because the broad spectrum raise the UV in suns sun rays. There's two types UVA and UVB. UVA causes aging. Loose loosely and skin cancer and UVB causes burning and possibly also skin cancer. So you need something that covers both of those. So you'll know it covers both. If it says broad spectrum, that's the most important thing. And the second is that you've liked the texture of it so that you actually wear it and are willing to put on have it on because you could have an SPF 100 And it's broad spectrum guaranteed to prevent you from aging. But if it is cakey and greasy on your skin and burns your eyeballs, you're not going to want to wear it right so I think the SPF factor is important. Probably more important broadspectrum a texture you love
Nick VinZant 21:56
since you are a haircare expert, what is harder shampoo? What's harder shampoo, conditioner or shampoo and conditioner?
Valerie George 22:05
Oh, I would say a two in one.
Nick VinZant 22:07
I feel like that's a rip off.
Valerie George 22:08
You're kind of getting like an okay shampoo, and like an okay conditioner. But you're getting one bottle. Whereas you could have like a really good shampoo and a really good conditioner. But you have to buy two bottles for your hair, which is short. Do you use conditioner? Yes. When one might be fine, because you have like shorter hair? You know?
Nick VinZant 22:27
I do? Well, my wife has I use what my wife provides. And I will say, okay, it is better. My husband's
Valerie George 22:34
the same. Yeah. Right. Yeah, it is.
Nick VinZant 22:37
But it is but but yeah. Before then I was always a shampoo and conditioner, man. And now my hair is like who it is a little bit nicer. I have to say that.
Valerie George 22:47
It is yeah. A two in one though from a formulation perspective is hard because it's two conflicting chemistries. Typically, cleansers have a negatively charged cleansing agents in them. They're called an ionic and conditioners have positively charged can ionic materials in them and opposites attract, right just like a magnet. And like Paula Abdul said, so the negative and the positive will attract to each other. And that's not supposed to happen in the bottle. Right? That's incompatible. So the trick with a two in one is how can you prevent negative cleansing things from positive conditioning things from competing with each other? And complexing?
Nick VinZant 23:29
If people are coloring their hair, they kind of ruining it?
Valerie George 23:33
Yes.
Nick VinZant 23:35
Oh, that's not good. Yeah.
Valerie George 23:38
No, no, it's really damaging because earlier I mentioned hair is biologically dead, right? But it's I say chemically alive. I'm waiting for other people to quote me and then like, put my name like after the quote here is by biologically dead but chemically alive. And so with hair color, lightener, perms, straighteners, all that kind of stuff. You're changing the chemistry of the hair, and not in a good way. And that leads to hair being damaged and you can't actually repair that damage once it's done.
Nick VinZant 24:07
No, my wife is gray to beautiful woman gray at 23. And she said like the amount of haircare products that have been in and out of this house?
Valerie George 24:19
Who Yeah, the best you can do is mask the damage that hair color does, that's the best you can do. And that's what a really good conditioner. And a gentle cleanser will help with
Nick VinZant 24:29
like, I guess kind of on a philosophical sense, right? Like, are we are we destroying people with this? Right? Like, you can look better you can change it. Like are we creating kind of a monster in ourselves with all of this?
Valerie George 24:46
Yeah, yeah. And you know, the grass is always greener. If I had really fine soft silky hair, I'd probably be like, Wow, I wish my hair was wavy and curly, which it is now. Alright, so I think you know part of it is You know, as humans, it's our nature to always want to aspire to to be something different or be something better or to fit the image of what we think that looks like. And I don't think it'll ever change beauty products or not. I just think that that's part of who we are
Nick VinZant 25:18
is you know, when you see somebody or that looks like their hair is like this, their faces like this, their skin is like this. Is it ever the product? Or is it really like, it's their genetics, it's who they are. And the product maybe helps a little.
Valerie George 25:33
I think a lot of it is genetics. Lifestyle is also a big one I mentioned at least for skin. Proper, some protection, staying out of the sun is key, not smoking is key smoking degrades collagen, you know, diet helps, at least making sure you're not nutritionally deficient. So then you could take your supplements, right? I think those are like probably the biggest factors and how our skin looks. And then a really tiny portion of it is product. And I almost even don't want to say that hesitated a little bit. Because really, the only way to turn back time on your skin or to really look younger is plastic surgery, or some type of more invasive dermatological procedures like lasers or resurfacing or injections or Botox or, and fillers, I think that's really, procedures are the only way you're going to get the most bang for your buck a cream is probably not going to do that.
Nick VinZant 26:34
If you put a number on it, like a person who looks like this, whatever that this is, what percentage of it is because of the product that they were using, like 10% 1% 20, thank you.
Valerie George 26:49
I would say part of me wants to say like 10 or less, but then I will say there is power in having a beauty routine, because a lot of people will say my skin is sold. I have a friend, we were in Vegas a couple weeks ago for an ingredient trade show. And she was like, my skin is so dry. And I looked at her and she literally has like lizard snake skin all over her face. And she's like, I think I need to go to the doctor and get like, you know, this invasive chemical peel done. And I was like you exfoliate your skin at all? And she was like, No, and I'm like, why don't you start there. And you know, your snake skin is gonna fall off your face. And it's little things like that we're just having a little small routine, it kind of doesn't matter what the product is. I think that's the biggest benefit that you're gonna see with your skin. Are you you know, washing your face with a gentle cleanser in the morning and in the evening? Are you moisturizing are using SPF. And I think if you can do those things cleanse SPF moisturize, you're gonna see a huge exfoliate, you're gonna see a huge improvement in your skin alone. So that's why I would say maybe like 10 to 15% as product. Maybe 20
Nick VinZant 28:07
Is there a price point where I can get something that's good enough, right? Like, I'm not buying the $9 gallon jug of moisturizer. But I'm also not buying the $5,000 whatever, like, is there a price point we like look, that'll get you there,
Valerie George 28:24
I would say it's tough because I'm a sucker for all kinds of products. And, you know, I'll see products that I know are insanely priced, and I still want to buy them because I have some shred of hope they're going to provide benefit to my skin. It's awful. And I just know deep down it's not true. So I would probably say there are a lot of great products you can get at the drugstore that are just as good as ones that you can get in the premier beauty stores like Ulta and Sephora. So don't feel the need to go out of your budget to get something again focus on the routine and make sure you have a gentle cleanser for your skin. And exfoliator a moisturizer and SPF and just right there you should be okay even with you know products if you choose to get them at CVS or Walmart or whatever the mainstream stuff that's under 20 bucks on the haircare side. For me, I don't like to spend a lot of money on shampoo, because I think, you know a lot of companies are using the same technologies and it's, you know, a little more economic. So I would say probably skimp on the shampoo and really invest in a really good conditioner. That would me be my recommendation and I would probably say are really good conditioners should cost somewhere between 20 and 40 bucks
Nick VinZant 29:48
when you look at like the the ingredients in different products, right? Like is it that different between brands for the same thing like or is it they use a and b and this company uses BNA or is it like, well, this this one's different? Yeah,
Valerie George 30:03
I mean, it depends, like if there were comparable textures, they're probably using a lot of the same stuff. I would say it's a little different with a company like L'Oreal who actively patents combinations of ingredients, or different use method methods for ingredients. So one example is, they have a vitamin C serum, from a brand they purchase called SkinCeuticals. And it's a vitamin C, E and ferulic. Serum. And this serum is like, over $100 for like a little itty bitty bottle. So insane. And people were like, is it worth the money, and it's worth the money if you see a difference in your skin. The problem with Vitamin C is that it's not stable. And so L'Oreal has done a lot of work to write, I think this was actually done under the SkinCeuticals brand. But they did the work to say that okay, well, we know that vitamin E helps stabilize vitamin C ascorbic acid, it's okay stable. But if we add folic acid into the picture, it's ultra stable. And so the consumer is actually getting stable vitamin C delivered to the skin. So in a case like that, I would say L'Oreal is doing something different. I mean, everyone uses folic acid. Everyone uses ascorbic acid, which is vitamin C, and everyone's using vitamin D. But it's like the combination and how they put it together. That's different. And a consumer probably doesn't know these things. Unless they say Why can't I find a dupe for it? And you know, they have to Shell out the money for this $125 Serum. But on the formulator side, you know, I can see those types of things. But I would say for the most part, we're all kind of using the same materials.
Nick VinZant 31:43
Is there been a product? Or is there anything that like, look, this is gonna kill you five years early, but damn, you'll look good. Like, has there ever is there anything that's been developed? Like, oh, this vitamin K beasts? riboflavin? Six, you're gonna look great. You're gonna die 10 years earlier? Like, has there ever been anything like, gosh,
Valerie George 32:08
this is so awful. But are you aware of a product called Brazilian blowout?
Nick VinZant 32:19
My wife does it.
Valerie George 32:21
Okay, well, their stuff now is fine. Allegedly. Okay, their stuff now is fine. But many years ago, they had formulas that contained an ingredient that under certain conditions converted to formaldehyde, which is, you know, can be considered toxic and carcinogenic. So, they didn't have formaldehyde in the products, they had ingredients that converted to formaldehyde under under the right conditions, and it was helping smooth and straighten the hair. I did this treatment many times. I loved the way my hair looked. I mean, with my scalp crossed over and fall off over the course of a week. And I couldn't go out in public. Yes, but after that, I felt like a supermodel with my hair being so straight and shiny. I never had to blow dry it. It was awesome. And I knew it probably wasn't very healthy. To use or have done especially like if I'm wearing a respirator and the stylus doing my hair is wearing a respirator, it's like probably not ideal for anyone. And in fact, a lot of people have claimed to be injured by that product. So I would say that is one. And it's a reason why those formulas are actually restricted now, so they had to reformulate their product and all that kind of stuff.
Nick VinZant 33:44
This is a more philosophical question, right? But like, at what point do you think that people would stop in the sense that all right, this product is going to make you look great, but five years takes off your life? 10 years? 1520?
Valerie George 33:58
I would say people would start hair loss. I think a hair loss product, someone would say yeah, I'll take five years off my life if I had a full head of hair the whole time. Don't you?
Nick VinZant 34:09
Yeah, I could go. I could go 10 I could see people saying 10 Right, because, right, obviously the difference. Do you know
Valerie George 34:19
how long you're gonna live? That's, I mean, it's like, Hey, I'm gonna live to 100 Sure, I take 20 off to live to 80 and live Yeah, really good the whole time. Right. But the trick is, you don't know. So if you're 58 you only get to live to 53. Is that five years worth it?
Nick VinZant 34:38
Yeah, now, if you like the difference between 30 and 25, like, oh, the percentages, right. falling
Valerie George 34:44
a little bit. I'll wear a hat.
Nick VinZant 34:48
I think most people would would be okay with 10% of their lives.
Valerie George 34:52
Maybe to have a forehead. Yeah.
Nick VinZant 34:55
For anything that would make them look like great. I could go as high as 20 percent like I bet. I bet people would go 20. That's crazy. Wow. And I think people wouldn't even question it to some degree. Um, what do you think of beauty influencers? And that can be as general or as specific as you want that question to be? Right. Like, what do you think about that people who are
Valerie George 35:20
I think beauty influencers can be great because a lot of them go beyond beauty. And also I would say are more like lifestyle, beauty influencers, or maybe they've evolved that way. And I think it's really incredible because they create these communities have diehard fans, who are willing to support them through thick and thin no matter what, and I have a couple of friends who are beauty influencers, and there are people who, they, this influencer has changed this person's life for the better, or they've helped them get through a bout of depression, or help them through a really challenging life situation, or they keep this person going. And that is pretty cool. And that's actually what attracts me to the beauty industry, especially hair is, if you you know, sometimes I think I can't believe I left like real research to come work in the beauty industry. But then I think, you know, I'm helping create safe products that really changed the way people feel about themselves. And that's pretty powerful. Because when you have a good hair day, you feel unstoppable. Like you can go out and do anything you put your mind to when your hair is looking its best. And that feels really good. And so beauty influencers can also be really influential in in that type of way, and helping people feel empowered. I think beauty influencers cannot be great when they spread misinformation, a lot of them, you know, think they know a lot of stuff about products or chemistry or how the industry from my side is regulated. And it's not the case. And they say a lot of things that aren't true. They'll say an ingredient is known to do this. And it's like, well, not not really that's not how it works. So I think they can do a lot of damage in that respect as well.
Nick VinZant 37:09
Is there one thing that you would say that's recently, right, like we're recording this basically the beginning of August 2022? That you would say, oh, no, no, we can't. Either that that's not safe or that like that doesn't work? Right? Like, stopped? Yeah, people?
Valerie George 37:28
Well, you know, I tried to stay off social media a little bit. So I can't think of anything like to currently but you know, something that always kicks up every now and again, is people are telling other people to avoid products with preservatives or preservatives are dangerous. And I just get so frustrated, because what's more dangerous is having a gram negative bacteria growing in a product, and then you become really sick and blind or you die. So to me, the risk of being exposed to a preservative that's proven to be safe, is way better than having micro organisms growing in your product. Right. Another thing I've seen lately, actually is, there are apps that are out there. And you can scan a product with your phone, and it will tell you if the product is toxic or not toxic. And so these influencers are going to Target and Walmart and Sephora, and they're scanning pictures and giving like Oh, thumbs up, this one's good or down, you know, thumbs down, this one's bad. And I don't like that, because those apps aren't really based on based on grounded scientific information. They're typically not run by toxicologists. And in just looking at a product on the shelf, you don't know enough about the formula, or what safety testing was done to determine if a product is safe or not like that's what toxicologists are for. So I don't like those because they'll walk up to a product by you know, maybe Procter and Gamble and say, Oh, this is toxic or bad for your hair, don't use it. And then like, well, actually out of any company in the world, they probably did the most safety testing for this product. And I would bet that it's safe for use, like they wouldn't put an unsafe product on the market. So I think that is something I wish people would stop doing is posting these videos of products and saying they're toxic off of an app that who knows who made
Nick VinZant 39:15
it, that's what I've always felt like is missing and kind of the influence or like generation is not in generation but that influence or places like the context isn't there, right? Because I can go to WebMD Yeah, I can go to WebMD and my headache is anything from a headache to signs that I've got cancer Ebola virus, right like the context of understanding what it is. For formulas now you've How long have you been making your own?
Valerie George 39:42
Just since March of this year, I actually just branched out for corporate America and opened my own company simply formulas where? Yeah, I just create formulas for different brands and work on different projects. I also have another company called simply ingredients where I sell my favorite ingredients that I've ever come I'm across to people like you at home, so that you can make your own products. I have fun recipes on my website that simply dash ingredients.com. And, in general, I just love beauty. I love science, I love talking about it, we could probably have an eight hour episode if you wanted. But I just love talking about beauty in general. So you can find me online as a science communicator, and really just kind of a avid proponent for transparency in the industry. And I have my own podcast with a co host called the beauty brains,
Nick VinZant 40:32
you know, for your formulas, when you know we talk about that, right? Like what's kind of different about yours than other ones that people might necessarily see.
Valerie George 40:44
Yeah, so there are a lot of chemists or companies that will make formulas. I'm the only company independent formulation company focusing on hair and hair color formulas. But what's I think is so special about what I do is that I used to be Executive Vice President of r&d, a very large haircare brand. And in addition to running r&d, I oversaw regulatory quality, packaging, and then manufacturing in the last year that I was there. So I have a lot of experience just outside of being in a baker that I think is a big point of difference for me.