Can we become more than human? Transhumanist Zoltan Istvan is trying to take Transhumanism mainstream. As a thought leader, futurist, and presidential candidate, he believes we will soon be incorporating new technologies into our bodies. And that we need to start preparing now. We talk Transhumanism, robotic advancements, uploading our consciousness to the cloud and immortality. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Fictional Robots.
Zoltan Istvan: 02:22ish
Pointless: 32:34ish
Top 5: 50:52
nickvinzant@gmail.com (Show Email)
316-530-7719 (Show voicemail)
http://www.zoltanistvan.com (Zoltan’s Website)
https://www.amazon.com/Zoltan-Istvan/e/B00ARY87WC/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1 (Zoltan Istvan Books)
https://twitter.com/zoltan_istvan (Zoltan Istvan Twitter)
https://www.instagram.com/zoltan_istvan (Zoltan Istvan Instagram)
Zoltan Istvan Interview
Nick VinZant 0:10
Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, transhumanism, and fictional robots,
Zoltan Istvan 0:19
humanism is always taking the human being experience to the next level through technology, we anything from exoskeleton suits to random plans, you know, you're probably looking at in the next 10 to 15 years, being able to upload large chunks of your brain into a kind of a consciousness of some sort in the cloud. This is where a lot of the stuff gets really fuzzy. And it's, you know, we're all in the Wild West, nobody knows where the laws are gonna end up. I mean, I did death, the version of death is definitely going to change. As we get into the future.
Nick VinZant 0:55
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate it, it helps out the show. And we just like to hear from you. So leave us a comment on the app you're listening to, or leave us a voicemail at 316-519-7719. So our first guest is a leader in the transhumanist movement. He is a published author who has wrote extensively on transhumanism. He's a futurist, and he's also ran for political office, both governor of California and President of the United States. And he believes that transhumanism will go mainstream this decade, as we continue to bring about new technologies that could make us more than just human. This is transhumanist, Zoltan Eastmont, real quick, I have to apologize, I did something to parts of the audio in this interview, that make it sound computerized, and I just could not figure out how to fix it. So please bear with me, because I think the things that Zoltan talks about are very interesting. And definitely something that I think that we have to think about moving forward. The word transhumanism, like what does that mean to you really what it
Zoltan Istvan 2:27
is now there is tension. This is a social movement of many millions of people around the world that want to use science and technology to radically modified human body and modify the human mind. We anything from exoskeleton suits to random plans, even things like driverless cars or, you know, robots inside your house. But Transhumanism is always taking the human being experience to the next level through technology.
Nick VinZant 2:52
I guess the question that jumps out immediately, right, like if we're modifying and changing ourselves, our bodies? Are we fundamentally changing who we are? Or is this kind of just the next step in our evolution?
Zoltan Istvan 3:05
Well, that's a tough question. I mean, people are always worried and humans are going to become some kind of cyborg entity be so different, but I don't think we're gonna lose our inherent values. I think the thing you and I value right now said, Well, you know, we're kind to one another, to care about each other. You know, we haven't best each other's best interests involved, I think a lot of mutual ethics and morals will probably pass on, no matter what type of things the human being becomes the next 100 or 1000 years, or whatever it is. So even if I put a bunch of chip implants in my brain, and I have a cyborg, synthetic, hardened prosthetic leg, I don't think that's going to fundamentally change me much. Maybe when I upload my mind into, for example, in artificial intelligence, that will become something substantially different, but even then, I still think I'm gonna retain my core values, because I don't want to lose those. So even if transhumanism does changes, I don't think we lose a lot of what it means to be a human being.
Nick VinZant 4:04
How close are we to this? Right? Like we, you know, the thing that I think of, I'm a Star Wars person, so I think of like Luke losing his hand and he gets the robotic hand. I feel like people would be okay with that. But how close are we to the idea of like, I'm going to upload my consciousness into the cloud, like, where are we in that kind of possession of this making becoming a reality?
Zoltan Istvan 4:30
Sure, well, you know, about seven or eight years ago, they had the first telepathy between the person and France in India where they said hello to each other through the minds using brainwave reading headsets. Today, you can basically read a novel using this type of brainwave interface technology. So I mean, it's completely like just gone through the roof and how fast it's increasing. So if you take that trajectory of science, you know, technology out, you know, you're probably looking at in the next Next 10 to 15 years being able to upload large chunks of your brain into a kind of consciousness of some sort in the cloud, at least one that mimics us very closely. But is that actually you? I think that's still 30 to 50 years away to we're able to just have like a perfect identical version of ourselves.
Nick VinZant 5:21
Are we ready for that, though?
Zoltan Istvan 5:23
Well, I mean, that's the that's, that's the million dollar question. And the answer is probably no. You know, I'm currently a graduate student at University of Oxford. And a lot of the ethicists are in the philosophy department, or worrying about these issues. Most people don't think we are because technology has increased so much faster than morality than the development of morality. It's so much faster. Also, in terms of politics. This is why your, you know, presidential candidates and debates, they never talked about artificial intelligence, they never talked about genetic evidence, they never talked about radically against the human being, because it's just too wild. cost them votes. But the reality is, in Silicon Valley, this is all they do. All they taught us where the biggest companies in the world are, where all the money is. So yes, we're not we're probably not ready for a lot of this stuff. But because capitalism works the way it does, it's probably going to come. So the big question is really, what can we do. And, you know, we just need more emphasis to get involved and more politicians to really speak their mind, try to come up with regulatory or regulatory framework for a lot of these wild and, you know, absolutely insane ideas that are out there that are going to happen in the next 10 to 20 years.
Nick VinZant 6:30
I hope this doesn't come off as rude or offensive or anything like that. But I'll just be direct to kind of get the point across in my mind, right, like 1020 years ago, if you came forward, and I was hearing this and be like, This guy, what are you talking about? Now? I'm like, Whoa, we got to start. We got to figure this out. Is there any worry in your mind that like, by the time we finally do this, it's too late?
Zoltan Istvan 6:55
Well, to be honest, you the big worry is not about whether we do is too late, the biggest worry is who doesn't first, because in the last 10 years, I've seen China take the lead in a lot of these technologies. And one of the reasons is because China is a secular nation, they don't have that kind of a Judeo Christian framework that would, for example, stop them from doing genetic editing, or stop them from trying to create a cyborg person with an AI mind these kinds of things, they don't have those same kinds of cultural baggage that the United States and in other Western countries have. And so the question isn't, in my mind is like, Should we do the question is, who doesn't first and who does it first, who's actually gonna leave the world and the way forward, so we have to be very, you know, even Vladimir Putin has said, from Russia that, you know, a whoever controls AI is going to end up controlling the world, the last thing we want is him to think like that and control an AI. We have to get our politicians to pick up this ball. Whether we like these radical technologies like genetic editing and artificial intelligence, we better be the first ones to created first once the leader Florida in the world, because it's much better at democracy leads than let's say, a totalitarian government like China.
Nick VinZant 8:07
You talked about this a little bit the idea of religion getting into it, right. And that's a big that is that is a thing in the United States to put it lightly, right? Like, how can we adjust the idea that love No, but God created us this way? You're messing with this. You're messing with him?
Zoltan Istvan 8:26
Yeah, no, you know, as I've traveled across the country, talking to people about technology and transhumanism systemically, it really is defined along lines religion, most people think most Christians think the body is a temple created by God. And that temple is not to be messed with. Whereas transhumanists believe that we can overcome death. We can have godlike characteristics, new technology, we can overcome these things, like somewhere in between is everyone else, you know, who's like, well, and we, like, you know, modern medicine. And we, if we lose an arm, for example, fighting in a war in Afghanistan, we'd like that person to have a robotic arm so that they can play again again, or hold their wife or grab a beer or whatever, whatever it is. So somewhere in between, we have to find the middle ground. What I tried to tell people is that you know, Jesus was going around the world healing people healing the sick, making blind. See, these are very transhumanist traits. I mean, transhumanist is leading the charge to overcome blindness. Hence, transhumanism has already 100% Overcome deafness, because we have cochlear implants, if people want to have that. So, you know, if you look at it, from a medical sector perspective, helping disabled people, senior citizens, then I think a lot of Christians will accept transhumanism as the proper method forward, but you just have to be careful to beat out the godlike stuff as soon as you start talking about God like stuff and becoming enhance, you know, like beings that you know, then I think a lot of people get scared. So I tend to try to tone it down a little bit less than trying to cause a ruckus to get more and more people interested in the movement because in the end of the day, we're just interested in people's health and their ability to live the best life you Sometimes that best life is going to be filled with technology,
Nick VinZant 10:02
this may be kind of pie in the sky stuff, right? But does this get really complicated in the sense that look, the Supreme Court has said that corporations are people. If I've got a robotic left arm, is that a person? Does it have rights that aren't that are different from mine? Who owns that arm? Do I own the arm? Does the corporation who owned who made the arm owned the arm? Like how does? How's that? How's that going
Zoltan Istvan 10:32
to work? Yeah. And in an emergency, who controls that are right? Well, the government have some kind of override, you know, thing, and you're just about to, like, do something, you know, I mean, yeah, this is this is, that's why I said it again, and again, to young people going into the world with professions that I say go into cybersecurity, because whatever happens, technology is increasing. And we're gonna need more and more autonomy from people that control this technology. But I think, you know, it'll probably be like your iPhone, where you own the phone to some extent, you have all the privileges over whatever technology is, and, you know, you can utilize it in that way. But that there are a lot of people that are already having implants put inside their body and whatnot. And, yes, they own the actual implant, but they don't own the technology, that technology can then be upgraded, while it's in your body, just through Wi Fi signals, whatnot. And this becomes a, you know, a very challenging scenario, privacy, ownership. And, you know, the New World, I guess, I think, as long as we maintain our sense of ownership, self ownership, I think we're going to be fine, we're just going to insist that the technology we put inside ourselves actually belongs to us. But that becomes a little tricky, because now you have you know, for example, Alexa will record a conversation of a husband and wife and then use that in a divorce court or something that's, you know, wild, this is where a lot of the stuff gets really fuzzy. And it's, you know, we're all in the Wild West, nobody knows where the laws are gonna end up. I wrote about East where a woman claimed that she was raped in virtual reality, and that the rate was a real rate in terms of legal justice for that person whose story happened Australia, brand new ideas that no court has has any laws in the books for so we're writing history, as you know, that's happened to you in many ways,
Nick VinZant 12:21
when we kind of get into this right. Like, how, how can we balance the fairness aspect of it in the rich people are going to have the bionic implants and the lower income people? Well, you got nothing sorry, man. Right? Like, how do you kind of balance the societal inequities of all of that, as we get going, where some people have this and other people? You don't?
Zoltan Istvan 12:48
Yeah, I mean, that's one of my primary concerns. And I just hope, I'm not going to end up being an advocate for some transhumanist movement that really leaves the world a giant dystopia. You know, in 50 years. You know, I'm a big supporter of something called a universal basic income and for, for the very reason that I just think, if you need to create a floor for people to at least have enough to eat and shelter and the kinds of in health care and things like that. But outside of that, I think it's really up to a lot of the very rich people to billionaires, as a government, to try to make sure that the technology is spread evenly across the time. The good thing though, is that like a cell phone, cell phone technology, over time does become increasingly very cheap. And even, you know, in the muscle note, villages, Africa, people have cell phones, what they still don't have no sleep water, or enough food. So I'm hopeful that technology will, the transhumanist technology will make its way through every level of society. That doesn't mean though, that we're going to have equality and doesn't mean we're going to have a good, just fair society that requires people, billionaires, government regulation, people making solid hard decisions that may take some money off the top line, but really helped out even the class to society. So we're in a better place.
Nick VinZant 14:03
Where's the kind of like we're based in the United States and most of our audiences in the United States, we have listeners all over the place, where to kind of countries and areas like where do they rank in terms of, alright, they've got the best scientific development, they've got the best societal like who's kind of at the forefront of this? And where does like the US rank and kind of it?
Zoltan Istvan 14:26
Well, ground zero for transhumanism this technology is still Silicon Valley. It's no question that they're leading the charge. And but I would say China is catching up very quickly and fast. That's, you know, definitely like a national declaration to develop AI by 2030. And they may end up surpassing us. We've been going back and forth on who has the fastest supercomputer every year like they take us over and we take them over. On another hand. There's a lot of weird stuff happening like a lot of biotechnology companies are no longer doing their experiments the United States because the The process is like eight to 10 years to get a drug through the pipeline. So what they do is they'll go down to Honduras, and those El Salvador there go to somewhere in Eastern Europe, and they'll do the trials, which will take half or a quarter of the time. And then those companies will essentially move here, but still have the drugs come out. These are radical drugs, your cancer or whatever it is, whatever. So that's happened to so it's not even really, you know, way that we're humans are trying to start a company centrally located, a lot of times it's they go for the environment, business environment, that stimulus to that, and, and then try to utilize that. So that see the best place to develop companies.
Nick VinZant 15:40
Right? We've talked a lot about the kind of the benefits of this, I guess, like what are the what do you when you look at it like, man, we've really got to make sure this doesn't happen.
Zoltan Istvan 15:52
The benefits are numerous. Created, humans will make people live longer if you bring more prosperity to their lives. And science and technology have a really great history. If you look back hundreds of years, like we just don't die from cavities anymore. People used to die all the time from an infection from a catalyst. So technology's really good history of making people live better, longer and with more prosperity. And so we believe transhumanism will continue in that vein, therefore, it shouldn't be supported. The question, though, is some of these technologies are so radical, like artificial intelligence, controlling nuclear weapons, for example, or genetic editing, where you can genetically edit yourself to have a smarter brain than your neighbor? Is that fair? You know, especially if you can afford him. He can't, you know. So these are some of the more fundamental questions I think ethicist philosophers and transhumanist have to address before they sort of happen. But I think that's that's the big dilemma, right now happening in the world to figure that all out.
Nick VinZant 16:52
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Yes, of course, the your vision of the future, right, like when you look at what you think the future can be, how far away do you think that we are from that right now?
Zoltan Istvan 17:08
Well, you know, it really changes, I think, I tend to think of it in terms of 10 to 15 years, and then 30 to 50, and 100 years, so 10 to 15 years, we got some big progress happening on the horizon with life extension. That means 3d Bible printing Oregon's artificial artist, genetic editing therapy, so that we don't get, you can't get HIV, or maybe even make us we can't get monkey pox, things like that. So I think that's the 1015 year window, where we develop a lot of things to make us live better. But that's not very exciting, I think what really gets exciting is when you start talking about uploading your consciousness, something, like I mentioned are probably 20 to 40 years away, we will start experimenting with that people start trying to do that stuff, but it gets really wild, get to the 100 year window, because then you're in a virtual avatars and living machines, maybe you're often facing multiple selves, you know, like, it's not just don't think yourself, just upload yourself and then your machines, actually do your human body on the surface still be here. And when you upload yourself, you may not just upload one version himself, you may have 100 copies, maybe 100 Gold fans running around doing his thing. And so and that becomes like what's your family and with all these little mini nice, but you know, the shrimp skinless world is really bizarre when we start taking it out that many years because AI and consciousness expansion, your brain is probably going to have, you know, 1000 or 5000 times more intelligence than we have now, maybe a million times and progressing at a much quicker rate than before. If you think what's happening with technology now, just imagine how a Moore's law is gonna apply in 30 or 40 years when technology is still doubling. So I think we're all at some point have to put an implant around brainwave headsets that connect us to all the machines around us, just for convenience sake, but I think you know, there always probably been a human leftover somewhere on planet Earth. But if you don't embrace technology, there's no question you're gonna get left behind. And, and I think finally, on a final note, the the 30 to 50 year future also involves getting off planet you see people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos pushing the space companies. We're just at the very beginning of this, we want to create bodies that are able to withstand pressures outside first system, environmental system so that we can go off planet and not just outside our solar insider sources, but really into the galaxies. See if there's other life out there, see if anything else is worth, humanity decided to kind of ponder. So I think getting off when it's going to be another huge transformative session. One
Nick VinZant 19:37
of the things that I've always seen about is like the idea of kind of being immortal and for me, personally, I guess I'll ask this from a person, like I don't really want to be immortal. Do you think that we could really handle that the idea of living forever?
Zoltan Istvan 19:51
I also am afraid of immortality. I'm not sure. I want to have the ability to overcome death and the specter of death is a huge negative influence in my life. But I also want to retain the freedom to end my life by one. And maybe you feel like it's not just there's even trenchless technologies like cryonics out there where you could be brought back to life, even today at some other point in the future for developing science. And then you choose to live 10 more years and say, This isn't for me, and I want to go back to sleep. I mean, I think death aversion of death is definitely going to change. As we get into the future, we may like wake up every 100 years, just check in and then decide it's not for us. And some people may decide to like say, Look, we never bring me back, I never resurrect here completely take away, so I'm just ashes like that. But honestly, with 3d printing technology, and the different scanning of your brain, we can already start to see and memories. So if you can start doing that you can 3d print out anything, including an exact replica of yourself. And you may say, oh, it's not me, but that you won't know that it will still 100% think it's you. And so you get into this weird, you know, like, Hollywood time machine, you kinda, I guess movie scape where no one's really sure what is real and who you are. But the reality is, you probably gonna want to live and experience it, even if you don't want to live forever. So I like the idea of living as long as possible. But I also like the idea of having the possibility to say no to living forever. Again, I'm not sure that's possible, given the way that we're gonna have the scanning technologies and ability to 3d bio printer ourselves, there may be happy to do not resurrect clauses in our will, here in the next 50 or 100 years, because everybody will be able to be brought back to life, at least as they were upon their moment of death, just because we've had down to the atomic level with every single memory and brain component and blood vessel Western body.
Nick VinZant 21:43
I don't like the idea of living forever, but I do like the idea of like being able to check in every 100 years, like that would be pretty cool. Then I'd be worried about somebody, like accidentally deleting the server one day or something like that, um, 2020 fours come in, man, you're gonna you're gonna go for it again.
Zoltan Istvan 22:03
So do you know I'm currently a graduate student at University of Oxford, I think that I finished that degree. Before I run for office. Again, it's given me a lot of insight into the academic world giving me more credibility to being there. So I doubt I'm gonna run in 2024. You know, I am watching politics. So I'm watching the forward party, wondering if maybe there's going to be some type of Candidacy possibilities there. What Andrew Yang has done. I'm not really this moment, siding with any single party at the moment, because I'm more of a science candidate. But it is possible I would run again in 2028. And I, in fact, that caught me almost certainly will. I just kind of feel like I should take care of my graduate studies first, and take a break and run a couple campaigns. They all did pretty well. But sometimes it's best to the natural resources, gain a little bit more popularity in your field, and then try to try to strike. What do you think of like,
Nick VinZant 23:00
look, I feel like one of the early ventures into this and correct me if I'm wrong. I don't really know that much about this stuff. But I feel like one of the early Ventures is kind of the metaverse and that seems to have flopped pretty hard, at least right now. Do you think that? Is that a sign that this idea as a whole is not viable? Or just that we're not ready? Or just that we don't like Facebook? I guess, what do you kind of think about the whole Metaverse idea?
Zoltan Istvan 23:28
Well, well, to begin with, I think, you know, if we associate with Facebook, we're not going to like Facebook is in my opinion on the decline just because of management issues. And just because of perception. You know, I do think virtual reality goes huge promise. So I think another problem, virtual reality kind of being tied into the crypto and blockchain market, and whatnot. And look, that's fine. That's very interesting stuff. But a lot of that hasn't actually had any practical value. I just recently gave a speech. So in second and second license, a group called spatial and it was great. And about 100 people showed up. And I was invited to this event. And I thought, Wow, that's a lot easier than having to fly to Europe to give a 30 minute talk and doing so I see a huge future in the virtual world, just because the convenience say it, but they haven't made it enough where I really experienced it even remotely the same as the physical world. So until they do that, maybe that'll be happening to suits for you know, you really put on full gear and it's not just the goggles, I don't know exactly what it is that's going to make or maybe it's going to be some kind of, you know, little beam that shows up in the world virtual world and measures all your movements, and that will conserve immersion, you're starting to feel like you're immersed. I've done some virtual reality stuff like jumping off buildings, and you know, that actually feel incredibly real. So if they can do that, then I think the metaverse will take off, but right now I feel it's just a little too geeky. And it doesn't feel that real to me. So I might the real world still but you They're getting better every year at doing that. And hopefully, Metaverse will not really be a Facebook Association, but just become a, you know, a Technology Association through all these other companies, and then I think we'll be more inclined to adapt, but it has had a little bit of a shaky start. But you know, a lot of these technologies that she starts, and then all sudden, they they finally figure out, I interviewed
Nick VinZant 25:25
an Ice Climber one time, and he was the thing that he said is like, everybody thinks you're an idiot until they don't. And that's usually a sign that you're kind of on the right track, right? Like he said, if everybody thought I was crazy, then it's probably going to be worth me doing it.
Zoltan Istvan 25:41
No, no, and this was happening all over. You know, like, 10 years ago, I started really promoting transhumanism. A lot of people were like, Oh my gosh, guys, and it's mine. And now that AI and all these other things, like for example, universities, reanimating pigs raised with electro, they're recreating consciousness that on brain math looks basically identical to the real consciousness of a living pig brain. So all sudden, we have another way, for example, to overcome death, potentially. And these are real experiments that are already taking place. If you had told somebody that just 15 years ago, they would have thought that was possible, then that was wacko. And you know, something crazy. So it's always seems crazy. But you give them something 1020 30 years and really catches up and all sudden, lo and behold, you know, we're in the transhuman stage.
Nick VinZant 26:26
I'll be completely honest, when we first started this podcast four years ago, we interviewed a guy who was a futurist, and he talked about transhumanism, and I left being like, this guy is kind of crazy. And now I feel like Man, we better figure this out pretty fast. Because it's, it's common quick, right?
Zoltan Istvan 26:44
Yeah, no, let me just tell you like the philosophy department at University of Oxford, you know, if you'd have said 20 years or less, we will, they will be debating artificial intelligence all day long, and the ethics of it, that would have seemed completely insane to the oldest philosophy department in the world. And yet now today, I can tell you, the ethics of artificial intelligence are like literally on the tip of everyone's tongue there because they realize, if you want to make a difference in the world, to philosophy, the world of where humanity is doing it, this is where your expertise is needed. And there are massive change, structural changes like that happening all around the world, in all different types of universities, nonprofits, governments, as people start grappling with the fact that well, technology is really the driver of work of the world, and also culture as well as the military. So whoever's not in control of that whoever's not dealing directly with that is really missing the boat and will be left behind.
Nick VinZant 27:39
Yeah, I interviewed a guy one time who was I think he was a military general, he's like, You got two choices, get on the tank, or get run over by the tank.
Zoltan Istvan 27:47
That's that's your point. Yeah.
Nick VinZant 27:49
Last thing, man, like if you were to kind of look at movies, TV shows, video games, all kinds of what like, what vision of which one? Would you say like, Oh, I think they got it, right. Like, that's probably what it would really be like.
Zoltan Istvan 28:07
Hmm, you know, first off, I'm a huge fan of the matrix. And I do think that there's a very strong chance with my network, we will come to a premise where you actually to live inside virtual worlds, hopefully not powered by machines, I think actually, something very similar to start track is probably the most likely where we will eventually have getting to capabilities to create all sorts of creatures, those creatures will span out around the universe. And and then, you know, humans, who probably cyborgs and interact machines may actually go around the world and interact with them and have adventures and whatnot. It's not that different than Star Wars. But I think you have to ask me, What's one of the most interesting movies out there right now. It's the movie her. And her is the story of an AI that develops, but this time, it doesn't want to hang out with human beings and ultimately leaves. And that's a very humbling, I think, thought it could easily happen to people, even if we have minds that are sort of side over how chipping plants try to connect with AI. Artificial Intelligence is in here in 20 3040 years, and they just say, you know, we're going to lead you and go to the singularity, we're just not interested in your human race. It's almost like something us looking at ants, you don't really take much of a care of ants because we just don't consider their brains worth, you know, focusing on excessive urine and personal air. But I think at some point AI become so smart and may not care about our little three pounds of meat that we carry on our shoulders. It's just not sophisticated enough for them, and they will also leave us behind. So I think that will be an Earth is an excellent example of how technology could be very humbling for humanity. And
Nick VinZant 29:48
that's pretty much all the questions that I have. Is there anything else that you think that we missed? Or, you know, people want to get involved want to learn more? What what should they do?
Zoltan Istvan 29:57
Well, the one thing is, there was a documentary in March. LD or bus that Amazon Prime has ticked up that was made on my ts 16 presidential campaign but it's really a movie about came out recently in 2020, about transhumanism as a whole. And I go around in a giant bus. And this everybody of all these pants, who is across the country, exploring their personalities and trying to figure out, you know, where the world's gonna go. So you have a chance to go to Amazon Prime and a lot of other places to hang out and watch mortality or bias. And other than that, here's your chance. He was on Facebook, despite my not liking Facebook very much as a ton of groups, blog, Twitter groups as well. Now our Twitter followers on transhumanism or just Googling, you'll find a lot of stuff. I have a ton of books out there eight books trade, seamless wager, and whatever it is, you can read, some might work but immortality and bustle the documentary, it's just an hour and a half. It's a really fun way to explore transhumanism because we had a giant bus that was shaped like a coffin, then we drove all across the country. And that's how we campaign for a transfer list during one of my presidential campaigns.