Dr. Michelle LaRue works in some of the harshest environments on the planet, using satellite imagery and up-close encounters to study everything from penguins and seals to mountain lions. We talk polar biology, climate change, conservation and penguin jokes. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Animal Movies.
http://drmichellelarue.com (Dr. LaRue’s Website)
https://twitter.com/drmichellelarue (Dr. LaRue Twitter)
https://www.alumni.canterbury.ac.nz/penguins (Penguin Research Fund)
Interview with Dr. Michelle LaRue
Nick VinZant 0:11
Hey everybody, welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant coming up in this episode, first we're going to Antarctica, then we're going to the movies,
Dr. Michelle LaRue 0:21
I think it's probably because they kind of waddle the way that we do sometimes and like they can like kind of what so I think sometimes maybe a little bit like subconsciously, we kind of see ourselves in the in them because depending on the species in particular, they can be they can have some really strong personalities. So the things that I've seen are the ice that forms around those two islands in particular is really shrinking. And the reason that's important for emperor penguins is because the chicks need to get old enough to fledge their their downy feathers and get their swimming feathers. So if the ice melts too fast, they're likely to not be able to survive. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If
Nick VinZant 1:00
you get a chance, like, download, subscribe, share, we really appreciate it, it really helps us out. So our first guest works in some of the harshest environments on earth. And she studies some really fascinating animals, penguins, seals, mountain lions, this is antartic scientist, Dr. Michelle LaRue. This probably isn't the question I should start with. But I found myself wondering this. Obviously, penguins can't fly. But could they ever fly?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 1:31
I don't think so. No, there's no there's no evidence to suggest that they were ever able to fly. evolutionarily, penguins diverged probably from some other flying birds or flying birds that could dive about 40 million years ago.
Nick VinZant 1:47
Why do you think they seem to captivate us so much?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 1:50
I think it's probably because they kind of waddle the way that we do sometimes. And like they can like kind of what. So I think sometimes maybe a little bit like subconsciously, we kind of see ourselves in the in them because depending on the species in particular, they can be they can have some really strong personalities, too. So like, I think when we see them on TV and stuff, and they interact with each other, and they're a little bit cheeky from time to time, and you know, have really strong opinions apparently about things. I think we kind of see ourselves a little bit like, weirdly. So I think that's one thing. I think the other thing is, possibly at least were like with with the US frame of reference. We don't have any penguins anywhere near us, right. And in the wild in the United States, you have to go a really long way. So I think there's a little bit of novelty, again, with at least with the US frame of reference.
Nick VinZant 2:41
And that makes sense, honestly, because as you were talking about it, like I could see myself as a penguin much more than I could see myself as like a rhino.
Dr. Michelle LaRue 2:50
Great, great. Yeah, cuz they walk onto the penguins walk on two feet, and they kind of you know, they have relationships and like you said, when when you see them on, you know, frozen planet or or planet earth or whatever, some of the the TV shows that you see them on they, they they have, they have personalities, they really do. We had an elephant researcher on one time, they
Nick VinZant 3:10
said rhinos are stubborn, but kind of dome. They're kind of a dumb animal are penguins. Are they smart? Compared to other animals? I think like what are they like? Like, if a penguin was a person, what would like what would they be like?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 3:28
Okay, that is a that's a wonderful question. And in my experience, it completely depends on the species. So, using Adelie penguins, as my first example, if an Adelie Penguin, were a person, they would be very opinionated, and very, like, what's the word very type A, I feel like they would be a very type A down to business, like, I need to do the thing that I need to do get out of my way. And if you're in my way, I'm gonna yell at you. I'm unafraid of things, or at least unafraid of people in my experience, and yeah, just very, like very opinionated, and like, move I need, I've got stuff to do here. On the other hand, emperor penguins, which are like almost the complete opposite, they're super chill, and relax, and they kind of like walk really slowly, and they don't seem to be in a hurry ever to do anything. So like their exact opposites, which I think is really funny. So those are just two, you know, kind of two examples. So I think it really depends on you know, where they live and probably what like people, right, like, you know, there are certain certain people have different personalities and certain populations of folks may have, you know, stereotypically certain trends of personality types and, you know, ways of going about life. And I think penguins are a lot like that to
Nick VinZant 4:42
how do the, you know the things that I've always watched on TV and grain of salt because you're watching it on TV, but they seem to always like, and they come back to the same place every winter every summer, like how do they navigate frozen ice basically?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 4:56
Yeah, I think that's a really good question. And I actually don't Know exactly the answer. So I'm going to use the my best ability to think about why that could be, because I think a lot of people are still trying to figure that out, like, how do they, you know, navigate to some of these places. So I think there's clearly some sort of, of drive for them to be able to to be anywhere on the ocean and kind of get back to where they're going. So if it's navigating based on some sort of sense of smell, or, or if they're just using their sight, because if you think about it, you're a penguin, you're swimming in the ocean, you can't see that far, right. So they have to have some sort of capacity. So I don't know exactly how that works, to be honest with you. But what I can say is, I think they're once they at least get up onto the ice, and they've got like this expanse of ice, they must use the sun or the stars or something like that to kind of narrow back to where they're supposed to be. And then when they get relatively close, I think they do use landscape features to identify where they need to be. And the reason I say that is because just a couple of years ago when I was at a place called cape Crozier, which is in the southern part of the Rossi and it's home to one of the largest Adelie penguin colonies in the world. I was there doing fieldwork and we were flying nearby the emperor penguin colony, which is also at Cape Crozier. And we were flying over in and basically taking pictures of all of the emperor penguins and we happen to see just opportunistically, this little group of Adelie penguins that were hanging out on the ice. Now, they're not supposed to do that they're supposed to go to the the, like, their actual colony on land was only I think, three kilometers away. So they got really, really close. But they just like this group of maybe 500 or so kinda was just like, we'll just we'll just hang out here. And it was really weird. And I thought that this doesn't seem This doesn't seem normal. So I think what happened possibly, in that particular case, is the so that you have the cape, and the Ross ice shelf is continually moving, right? Because it's basically a gigantic glacier. And so I think what happened is from whenever the last time those particular birds were at Cape Crozier, I think the Ross ice shelf moved out enough and kind of blocked were like their, their sight of where the cape should be. And so they said, Okay, I think it's supposed to be around here in this particular spot, but we can't see it. And so we might as well just stay here. So I think that's potentially what happens. So that's why I say that I think they, they have some sort of ability to get into the general vicinity, and then they do use landmarks and the sun probably to figure out where to go. And then when they get to the particular spot, things have changed a bunch, they kind of make it up as they go.
Nick VinZant 7:38
How do you generally study them? Like what's what's your process for studying animals in that area?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 7:44
There's a couple different ways largely, I use the the images. So that's literally just a matter of looking at the images and seeing what we can see. It's very basic and straightforward. And of course, the the statistics and the modeling and things that come out of it afterwards, is is a bit more complex. But the gist of it is really like being able to look at an image, which is and saying, you know, what do we see here? And what does this tell us about the landscape, and when you can do that over? You know, just like I think we looked across 260,000 square kilometers of basically the size of New Zealand's worth of ice to see where all the Weddell seals were living. And that alone was like a major advancement in being able to look at all of them at the exact same time. So rather than kind of piecing things together, which was what we had to do previously, because it's really difficult to get to all of these spots at the same time. In fact, I would argue, it's probably impossible to do that. By being able to have this remote view and count them all and look at them all. That you know, really set forward our ability to understand what the what the system is like. So I'm trying now to kind of like put those pieces together for lots of different species.
Nick VinZant 8:53
Obviously, climate change is a huge concern. What what changes have you seen just in like, the last couple of years, decade, whatever frame of time you'd like to compare?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 9:04
Yeah, um, most of my work has been in the rostie, which is likely to be what's called like a rifugio, or a refuge for a lot of species because it's supposed to stay fairly cold and ice is supposed to be fairly stable into the future, however, I should say, and that's with comparison to places like the Antarctic Peninsula, which is losing ice like crazy. So relatively speaking, the Ross Sea should be fairly stable, but the things that I've seen, and again, I can't necessarily say that these changes are because of climate change, but they're certainly changes that I've noticed. Places like Franklin Island or Beaufort Island, both of which are home to both Adelie penguins and emperor penguins. You know, the ice forms around the island in the winter time and it kind of will hang on as long as it can into the summer. And the reason that's important for emperor penguins is because the chicks need to get old enough to flage their, their downy feathers and get their swimming feathers. So if the ice melts too fast, they're likely to not be able to survive. So the things that I've seen are the ice that forms around those two islands in particular is really shrinking, like, to the point where if we fly over and say October, where the ice should still be almost at its maximum extent, the fast ice extent, it's really, really close to the colonies now. So I've seen that I would say, both in person, so like flying over myself, and also on the satellite imagery. So those are just kind of two examples that I think is probably due to climate climate change, and it's a bit scary,
Nick VinZant 10:42
scary for their future or scary for our future, or both.
Dr. Michelle LaRue 10:46
Um, I would say both definitely scary for their future. Because if you know, the way these long lived, animals work is, you know, things kind of get tough. And, you know, say you're saying you lose a cohort of chicks or something, the breeding population won't change a bunch, right? Because the adults can still survive, and they can swim, and they can kind of probably adapt. But at some point, if you continually and this is an extreme example, I'm not saying this is happening yet. But in the extreme example, if we start losing chicks over and over and over again, the population will eventually start to decrease. And there's lots of modeling studies by colleagues of mine that are suggesting that that's exactly what's going to happen. So definitely not a good thing for them. And I think it's awful for us too, because I don't want to live in a world without penguins. They're so cool.
Nick VinZant 11:37
Yeah, it wouldn't be the same. I mean, what would we have? Like, what would kids movies be without penguins?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 11:42
Exactly?
Nick VinZant 11:43
Yeah, I know, right? I know, it would be terrible. Speaking of that, kind of, are you ready? For some harder slash listener submitted? Questions?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 11:52
Yes, I hope Oh, my gosh, I am so nervous.
Nick VinZant 11:57
If you were a penguin, what kind of penguin would you want to be,
Dr. Michelle LaRue 12:02
um, I would definitely want to be an emperor penguin for all kinds of reasons. But largely, I feel like completely, like if we're at completely anthropomorphizing penguins, now. They are just very laid back. And I feel like that would be a really nice way. But then, but but then in reality, though, like, once you get to be an adult emperor penguin, your survival rates are really high. So the likelihood of you know you continuing to live from year to year is, is pretty darn good. They, they're just really relaxed and chill. And they're also really well adapted for the place where they live. So they live in the cold, they're really tough. You know, they have to survive, and like huddled together and work together to, to survive in the middle of winter time. So they're just this, I think they're kind of you know, to be cheesy about it, they're kind of inspiring, because they really do have to, you know, like, work together and survive, and they're really tough. And all the while, anytime you see them or or, you know, have an interaction with them. They're just like, really relaxed about things, and they walk real slowly, and they don't seem to be bothered about a whole lot. So I feel like that would be a really nice way to live.
Nick VinZant 13:13
What do they seem to dine penguins in general? What do they seem to think of us?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 13:18
That also depends on the species. So using emperor penguins as an example. So the other thing, this is actually a really good time to point out that all of the animals in antarctica are protected by all kinds of different international treaties and conservation acts and stuff. So I want to point out that all of the interactions that I talked about, are absolutely within the boundaries and the limits of those acts. So for example, if I don't have a permit to touch a penguin, which I never personally have, you cannot touch them, you cannot bother them in any way. As a matter of fact, if I am like walking along, and a penguin crosses, the, you know, crosses my path in front of me, and I continue walking and scare it, that's against the international treaties and conservation acts and stuff. So it's really, really serious. So I say all of that having been, you know, and all of these interactions that I'm talking about are definitely within the boundaries of those things. So what we do is, if you are, say, out in the middle of Airbus Bay, which is relatively close to McMurdo Station, which is the US base, you're out in the middle of Airbus Bay doing something else, which is definitely something that has happened to me and you see penguins kind of off in the distance. You kind of just keep going about whatever it is you're doing. And then all of a sudden, one day we looked up, and they were right there. And by this Conservation Act, you have to stop what you're doing and not scare them or bother them. And you have to sit still, until they go away. Like you can't say hi, you can't approach them. You can't even really, like we were just very, very quiet and we sat on the ice and just waited for them to walk away.
Nick VinZant 14:50
Are they curious about us? Yes. Are they just kind of like Ah, so new rock. This one seems to be moving. Okay.
Dr. Michelle LaRue 14:59
Yeah. So Right. Yep. So that's right. So emperor penguins are very curious. Like, the example I just gave, we were doing something else entirely by one of the islands and we saw them off in the distance. We're like, Oh, that's pretty cool. And then yeah, maybe, I don't know, half an hour later or something, they were right there. And like I said, we had stopped what we were doing and kind of wait for them to move on, which, of course, was not terrible at all, we sat down and you know, very, very carefully got our camera gear out of our out of our bags and things like that, and just waited for them to go and do their thing. But they must have spent, I would say, at least a half an hour, maybe 45 minutes, just like kind of wandering around, and they never really get too close, but they're definitely very curious. And then once they kind of move away, moved away from us, then went and we're inspecting our snow machines and kind of like looking around, and then they kind of just sit there for a little bit longer, and then eventually they decide to go away. So emperor penguins are very curious about people. I feel like Adelie penguins, on the other hand, again, in my experience, are they just have this very, like hardwired thing about them? Where I, it seems to me like they don't necessarily like that, like if you're walking and you're, and you're doing your best not to, you know, bother them or anything. I feel like they still get very like, okay, but you're taller than you should be. And you're definitely not a penguin. And I'm not really sure what you are. So I'm going to like yell at you. So that that's happened, that's happened. I've seen that happen before. And also one time I was sitting down at the edge at the edge at the kind of at the at the boundary where the birds were kind of coming in and out and I was kind of far enough away. And I was sitting eating lunch, and I turned around and all I did I just went like this, I turned around and there was this penguin there. And it was kind of like it had no idea that it was that I was a human. Like I must have been sitting there long enough and still enough that it didn't even notice that we were sitting there so yeah, there. It definitely depends on their personality. I feel like
Nick VinZant 16:58
okay, if you were to describe like, imagine you're at penguin High School. Who which which type of penguin is the jock like the athlete. Which one is the cool kid stereotype? Who's the nerd and who's the socialite?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 17:13
Oh, wow. Okay, well, emperor penguins are definitely the jocks. Like they're like the cool laid back jocks. And the reason I say that is because they can dive the deepest. They can hold the breath, the longest deck, they are definitely marvels of evolution. They're definitely the jocks, the nerd who would be the nerd. I could be going out on a limb here. And I feel like maybe other penguin people would disagree with me, but I feel like maybe gentoos Gentoo penguins are the nerds. Largely just because they kind of they kind of just do their thing. And they're not like I really like Gentoo penguins. I think they're cool. But I suppose they're a little bit nerdy, but I can't really say why. I don't know exactly why it is. I think that they're nerds. But I think that they probably are. What were the other options. So Oh, the socialite that is, uh, I feel like penguins are really, I mean, they are very social, but I'm just trying to think of who the would be the most social of all of them. Um, I'm okay, this is also probably going out on a little bit on a limb here, and maybe not being very creative. But the little blue penguins that I have had experience with. And these are in settings where they're in a rescue center kind of a thing. So they they were in the wild, but they got hurt. And so we're in a rescue center. And so that's my basis for my experience. And they seem to be very, like acute and and very, like, happy to talk to you and and they have you know, this like they they and it's I'm sure because they're in a rescue center and they deal with people all the time. They seem to be very happy to socialize and to kind of like waddle around a little rooms and stuff when they're getting their checkups and they don't seem to be, you know, afraid of people at all. So that's what I would say. I think the Yeah, the social ones are probably the little blues. And also, they're the ones that I have seen in the wild a couple of times that like I saw one was it was alive. And I think it's, I think it's probably fine. But it came up on shore just on a beach here in New Zealand, kind of in a place where it wasn't supposed to be. And it could kind of see it. It was kind of like looking around like well, this is not where I'm supposed to be. But it didn't flee and like didn't run away. It kind of just sat there and was like looking around and people were kind of you know, giving it space and kind of marveling at it and it didn't really run away so I feel like that's as best you can get as far as like being social for a penguin
Nick VinZant 19:38
best Wadler.
Dr. Michelle LaRue 19:40
I think Gentoo penguins are the best swaddlers Yeah, they have a they have a really great like I have several pictures of the so they make these little like highways in the snow. The I mean let's penguins do this, but like they make these little highways where they come down into the ocean. And I've got this set of pictures where I was sitting kind of at the bottom and watching these gentoos like it marching in a line. And they just looked like little, I don't know, like a marching band kind of just like walking down and they had this fantastic, fantastic waddle and they were kind of all like off kilter and not really, in, you know, in step with each other, but it was really cool to watch.
Nick VinZant 20:15
What is your favorite penguin related movie? What penguin related movie makes you mad? Oh, not how penguins are at all.
Dr. Michelle LaRue 20:26
Oh, that's a really good one. Um, I have to say, I haven't seen the movie in a long time. But I really did like Madagascar. Like, I really, really enjoyed that movie. And I thought it was really funny. And I also think that as I recall the movie anyway, like their personnel, like they feel like they got the personality is correct, which was really fun. So that was good. I think the one I really like Happy Feet as well. But that one also makes me mad, not for them doing a bad job of depicting penguins. But it makes me mad because it's very true. Like, the whole point of the story is that, you know, their food is being taken away, and you know what's happening? And actually tells a really good message, I think. And so that one is like, people can, you know, listen and pay attention, it would be really great. But I think they also did a really good job of depicting the different species in that one as well.
Nick VinZant 21:17
what's what's what penguin movie kind of drives you nuts, though? like, Ah, that's not right.
Dr. Michelle LaRue 21:25
Um, the only thing I guess that slightly bothered me about March of the Penguins, is they? Now we know. So it's not their fault. So like, I definitely want to say like, it's, it's not March of the Penguins fault or anything. But we now know that that particular colony may not necessarily be representative of all colonies of emperor penguins. So for example, that big long march that they do I, I don't know that every single colony does that necessarily. And there's really no way to know. So we're kind of just using that particular spot as a, as an insight to, you know, all of their behavior. So I think that part like kind of just suggesting, and, and again, there's nothing else you can do about it, you kind of have to do this, but just suggesting that that one spot is the way everybody you know, all emperor penguins behave. Largely speaking, it's probably fine. But that may not exactly be right. So I guess that's probably, if I were to think of something that's probably the one that I'd be like, well, now we know more, maybe we should update the movie. I don't know.
Nick VinZant 22:25
Do they generally, though, like those kind of penguins, do they generally go on this big journey? Or is it just Hey, this is just what that colony did? And that's their thing?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 22:34
Well, I think it depends. So So it depends on how extensive the sea ice is, if the sea ice is not very extensive, they don't have to go very far at all. And I actually think in some cases, we have evidence suggesting that there's like, so they live on a on this platform called fast dice. So it's ice that's fastened to the Antarctic continent. And the reason that's important is it's different than the pack ice out in the middle of the ocean. So the fast dice will form and it hangs on a little bit longer sometimes then the pack ice does. And it forms cracks in the ice as well. And the reason that's important is because I think sometimes, like if there's a nice crack in the ice, and it's open long enough, they'll just go in the crack that that's nearby rather than going, you know, really, really far out into the ocean. I don't know that that's necessarily always the case. But we do have evidence because as you can see, like, there'll be like little cracks in the ice and you'll see these little guano stands kind of along and suggesting that there were at least hanging out long enough near the crack to leave leave there. guano.
Nick VinZant 23:28
What is your go to penguin joke? Oh, no,
Dr. Michelle LaRue 23:33
I don't have any penguin jokes. I don't have any. I know. I know. I don't I don't have any penguin jokes. And I have a terrible memory too. It's like,
Nick VinZant 23:42
How do you not have any penguin jokes
Dr. Michelle LaRue 23:43
No. I don't have any penguin jokes. I don't think I know and you know what's going to happen is like, as soon as we get off the podcast here, I will remember a penguin joke and be like, Ah, that's what I should have said. But yeah, off the top of my head. I don't have any penguin jokes. I'm so sorry.
Nick VinZant 23:57
What are you guys even doing out there? I know. I know. Most impressive penguin fact. You're at a cocktail party. You gotta you gotta Wow, this person with a penguin fact. They've got all your funding wrapped up?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 24:11
Oh, no.
Nick VinZant 24:13
You're in town entire all of your funding millions of dollars at stake, but they need one penguin fact. What's your go to
Dr. Michelle LaRue 24:22
so much pressure? And that a lot? It is? That's a lot of pressure. Um, my my penguin fact that I think is so impressive is that emperor penguins can dive well below 1500 feet below the surface and hold their breath for more than 30 minutes. Think about that. That would be like the equivalent of a fish of a fish jumping out of the water 1500 feet out of the water and holding its breath for. That's not exactly right. But that's for lack of a better example that
Nick VinZant 24:58
doesn't like it first. We like 1500 feet, then you think of it along like, wait a minute. That's more that's almost like half a mile. Oh,
Dr. Michelle LaRue 25:09
it's a long ways.
Nick VinZant 25:10
Yeah. How are they? But how do they handle the water? Or the water pressure? Not that much there, or they just don't like that.
Dr. Michelle LaRue 25:16
Yeah, so they I mean, they have their diving physiology is totally, totally fascinating. And I'm definitely not a physiologist. So I can't speak, speak as an expert on any any of that. But yeah, like they, they have the capacity because they've evolved to do this, right, like, so they are perfectly adapted to not only living in the cold, having tons and tons of feathers to you know, keep themselves warm. And they huddled together that by the way, they're the only penguins that do that, like so all other penguins are territorial, and they like to stay away from each other. Obviously, male emperor penguins need to rely on each other in the middle of winter time in order to survive. So that's a really cool thing about them, too. But then, yeah, they when they get hungry, and when they need to go and do what we call chick provisioning. So go out and forage. They don't routinely dive to 500 meters or 1500 feet, but they can and there's been multiple records of them doing that. And so yeah, they they, you know, get down at depth, and they have all kinds of, of, I guess, physiological adaptations that allow them to do that. So they I don't exactly know how it works. But basically, they can come all the way back up without any, you know, they don't get the bends or anything like that. They can come back up and they don't have any negative. Nothing negative happens to their cells the way it would you know, for like a person or something. They slow their heartbeats down to you know, just a few beats a minute to kind of conserve energy and to conserve the oxygen that goes out into their muscles. It's they're incredible. It's absolutely amazing.
Nick VinZant 26:49
I always look at a penguin specifically, like the emperor penguins. I mean, they kind of fat. Was that fat? Is that fluff? Like, why are they built like that? Or that's like, what's the purpose of them being built like a pair? Yeah. Right.
Dr. Michelle LaRue 27:03
Exactly. Yeah. So they you need to be you need to be fat in order to survive in the Antarctic winter, for sure. So it behooves you to like build up as much mass and energy as you can before you get back to the colony, because then they end up having to the males at least, will have to starve themselves for a couple of months while they're incubating the egg. So you end up looking like a pair so that you can survive on all of your resources for several months while the female is out foraging. And hopefully she comes back alive still with some food for the chick, and then the male goes out. So you end up Yeah, looking like a pair. And then furthermore, like I suppose they're, they're fairly streamlined. They're very, you know, hydrodynamic. And they just, it's really funny to watch them on land, or I should say on on the sea ice, and then watch them swim in the water because they are just like, beautiful, beautiful masters of swimming, but they look so silly, like comparatively speaking on the ice, because it kind of just like waddle around, they look really awkward, except for when they're tobogganing, I guess. So when they toboggan that's when they go on their bellies and kind of like kick their feet up behind them, which is a more effective, inefficient way of traveling. And it works really well if you're on like, really nice, flat sea ice. But sometimes the sea ice is not flat, and so then you have to, like have to climb up. And they look very awkward. But my point is when they're not in the water, but when they're in the water, they're just amazing,
Nick VinZant 28:27
best name, mountain, Lion, Cougar or Puma. But they're all the same thing, right? Are the same thing.
Dr. Michelle LaRue 28:34
They are, they are all the same thing.
Nick VinZant 28:36
How did that happen?
Dr. Michelle LaRue 28:38
Yeah, well, I can tell you how that happened. So um, mountain lion. So taking a complete left hand turn away from penguins, mountain lions, were once the most wide ranging one of the most wide ranging mammals in the world. So they were they ranged from the Atlantic to Pacific oceans on both North America and South America and all the way from like British Columbia down to southern Chile. So like they were a very wide ranging species. And so unnecessarily So, all of the different peoples who coexisted with them for however long, you know, 1000s of years, probably more than that had different names for them. So they have the same exact species has multiple different names. And I think the estimate that I heard was there are upwards of 36 different ways of referring to Puma concolor, which is mountain lion. Puma. Catamount,
Nick VinZant 29:30
that that's all the questions that I have. Is there anything else you think that we missed or like, anything like that? No, those
Dr. Michelle LaRue 29:36
were fantastic questions. And now I'm going to have to go back and find a penguin joke because that's a hair thing that I don't I know, I know. I've got like nerdy science jokes, but I don't have a penguin joke in particular, and that is a little bit embarrassing.