From touring with Miley Cyrus and performing with WIllie Nelson, to singing in Rogue One and Frozen 2, Sara Mann is the renowned voice behind some of your favorite entertainment. We talk the life of a backup singer, touring with pop stars and singing in movies. Then, we unveil a criminally good Top 5.

Interview with Back Singer and Session Singer Sara Mann

Speakers

Nick VinZant: Profoundly Pointless Host

Sara Mann: Backup and Session Singers

Episode notes

• How do you become a backup singer

• How do you become a session singer

• How much does a backup singer make

• How much does a session singer make

• What’s it like to tour with Miley Cyrus

• Are backup singers better than the main star

• What are artists looking for in a backup singer

• Backup singers that became major stars

• Do backup singers also do solo work

Nick VinZant 0:12

Hey everybody welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant coming up in this episode, we're gonna go on a musical journey and count down a criminally good top five

Sara Mann 0:24 as a backup singer. There's more to it, I guess than just the music part of it. There's also I guess, a look and an energy on stage. I mean, like frozen to shore. I knew that was gonna be a big one. And those those were probably the most stressful sessions to date for me of my life. Like that was more nerve wracking for me to go into that room and sing on that that movie than being in a stadium singing in front of 20,000 people as Miley Cyrus is backup singer. There were so many screaming kids, it was just kids and like glow sticks for days and miles. And it was amazing.

Nick VinZant 0:59 I want Thank you guys so much for joining us. If you get a chance, like, download, subscribe, share, we really appreciate it. It really helps us out. So our first guest has done just an incredible amount of stuff in the music business. And she's someone that you have probably seen and heard and just not realized it. Because she's been on tour with everybody from Miley Cyrus, Sheryl Crow, Willie Nelson, and appeared in movies like Rogue One and frozen two. This is backup and session singer. Sara Mann, what essentially are you doing? Like what's the purpose of having a backup singer?

Sara Mann 1:40 I mean, the music has been pre recorded, usually and there are already harmonies and things that have that are on that record. So then if you go live and you go see the concert, you kind of your ears used to hearing whatever you heard on, you know, on that record, you're used to hearing the melody And then there's oohs and ahhs and all sorts of stuff and obviously the lead singer can't do that on his or her own. So then there are backup singers and backup singers fill in the other harmonies and the other parts that are that were written in the song, but I just wanted to add as a backup singer, there's more to it, I guess, than just the music part of it. There's also I guess, a look and an energy on stage. You know, there's, there are stereotypical backup singers that are you know, we're dancing and we're smiling and we're in tight, you know, maybe some are in little black dresses. And, you know, there's kind of like a stigma to it, where it's, it's also adding part of the show. So there's, there's that as well. Part of the entertainment of it. In regard to what I'm doing now, I do less backup singing than I did 10 years ago, because I'm a mom now and I have kids. For the past at least 10 years I've been more of a session singer doing recording stuff in studio, instead of going out on the rode, I don't go I don't tour as much. I do a little bit, but not like I used to.

Nick VinZant 3:04 So a session a session, I'll be able to pronounce this eventually. session singer is what

Sara Mann 3:13 Basically a session singer is a studio singer, where basically we are, we go into a recording studio or like right now we're singing from home in our own home studios. And there's either music put down in front of you and you sing what the composer wrote or you're singing, you know, some backgrounds that maybe you came up with on your own or were discussed, and you're recording it into a microphone, as you know, versus being on stage live singing. session singing also, you know, when you hear when you're watching a movie, there's you know, choir going on in the background in the score. I don't know if you've ever noticed that or not. But that is there's a group of singers that's actually recording that choir sound

Nick VinZant 3:59 I was looking at that in your bio. You've worked in some really big movies recently. I mean, alita battle angel, venom predator, Rogue One.

Sara Mann 4:08 That's all yeah, those are all choir. Those are all big, big choirs with lots of lots of singers. So do you ever go back and listen, you'll go Oh, because when I was younger, I sang on a couple things when I was in elementary school, like home alone, I think on those movies. And that was, that was my first I was well, first of all, I was in choir when I was in elementary school and high school and college. So I learned how to, you know, that's how to blend and you know, you start reading music when you're young and doing that. And then I had a choir teacher at my high school who knew the vocal contractors in town who knew the composer's in town and they said, We need some kids to sing on a couple films. And so I was chosen with a couple other kids to go and sing. You know, like, I kept that bell sweet sour bells like that kind of stuff. So I did it when I was younger, and then my career kind have changed I wanted to be on Broadway in the middle after after high school and then I decided I wanted and then I fell into backup singing and you know,

Nick VinZant 5:07 can you go back in and can you pick out your voice like that? That's me on Rogue One. That's me, right?

Sara Mann 5:13 Oh no, not at all. There are no not for something like that. There are movies that I can that but I was paid, you know, more as this or hired more as a soloist? I have some friends that do. I think a lot of like, I'm not a soprano, but a lot of Sopranos. There's more solo opportunities for choir film, work solo stuff, like there be one beautiful lilting soprano voice kind of you know, soaring above the others. You've probably heard that in a film maybe not even realized it just to I'm not going to demonstrate it because that's not my forte but that is something where you would be able to go Oh, that's me. You know if that's me, I got to do that. I don't do that. That. That's not my my wheelhouse, but I've done a lot of voices and stuff so there are times there are things like for example saying the movie saying and I know you have kids there are I did I did a lot of different little voices in that movie with a couple girls and we did primarily the most well known one are the three bunnies that go out my gosh, look at her, but

Nick VinZant 6:25 I know exactly what you're talking about.

Sara Mann 6:27 Yeah, that's it. That's a moment where the first girl that talks the way that they mixed it we didn't i didn't know for sure who was we didn't know who's gonna get picked for what but the way they mixed it in that movie. The first Bunny is me. And then the second Bunny is another girl and the third Bunny is another girl. And we did so that's that first funny I know is my voice so I can always go That's me. And then we also did the spiders and we were there's these little foxes that come out and they sing. I think in Japanese that they're like okay and IKEA, IKEA. They do this. They keep trying to audition to be in To show in the movie and that's us. We did. We did a handful of stuff and we sang backgrounds on all those songs. So yeah, that's the movie where I'm like, Oh, that's me, I can hear me. There's some Disney like, teen beach, those that like, you know, those kind of movies where this team I can't talk easy movies where, you know, once in a while like I might have been alone on my part, which is an alto part or something and I'll go Oh, that's me because I was the only one singing that note. But I'm the only person that would really know that. Really? Yeah. A recent thing that's kind of cool is frozen to the making us that's on Disney Plus, they we sang on that there were some different sessions with group singers. And if you watch the making of you'll see me in there, which was kind of fun because I know they had cameras on us he so now I don't know what Episode Episode Three or four and there's some there's a couple of shots of the choir, I'm standing in there.

Nick VinZant 8:02 So when you go into these different projects, like do you know if it's gonna be a big thing or not? Going into it

Sara Mann 8:08 not always no. I mean, you obviously you hope that even big thing meaning monetarily speaking,

Nick VinZant 8:16 I would say just overall, right like it's gonna be big a lot of people are gonna pay attention and it's gonna be big.

Sara Mann 8:22 I mean, like frozen to shore. I knew that was gonna be a big one. And those those were probably the most stressful sessions to date for me of my life. Like that was more nerve wracking for me to go into that room and sing on that movie than being in a stadium singing in front of 20,000 people as Miley Cyrus is backup singer like that. That wasn't like singing in a recording studio for frozen two was more scary for me. But that's probably because of the stigma with that movie. But we don't a lot of the times we don't know what we're going to go into saying the day we go in. We have no idea what it is. They don't generally try not to tell You've just for, you know, NDA purposes you go in, and then there's usually some kind of announcement like, this is what you're singing on today, sometimes, you know ahead of time.

Nick VinZant 9:09 So I'll be really direct, like, how much do you get paid for this?

Sara Mann 9:14 That all varies. It depends on if it's a if it's a film, or if it's TV pays differently if it's a giant choir of singers you get paid less than if it's just you by yourself, you know, solo, there's a solo singer scale, and then there's a three to six and then, you know, are you asking like specific numbers?

Nick VinZant 9:36 Sure, if you want to give them yeah,

Sara Mann 9:38 I don't think I know that, um, off the top of my head.

Nick VinZant 9:41 It sounds basically like a comfortable living.

Sara Mann 9:45 Well, that depends on how often you get to work. If you if you're doing one session, and honestly, I do think many of us have other jobs that we do. For example, my ex husband and I opened two restaurants together while I was on tour as a backup singer for Miley Cyrus, so while that was being a backup singer certainly paid the bills and was able to support both of us during that time, he was able to go open the restaurants while I was on the road singing. But now, I mean, there are times when I'm not on the road, you're not making any money at all. So that money, usually, you know, you have to be smart with it, put it in the bank. If you go on tour for three months, you're not going to go on tour again, right after that. And artists generally tours, maybe a couple times a year, or maybe one big tour a year and then they go home and they record a whole record. And then they release that record and then they have to do promo for it. And then maybe comes a tour assuming that the record does well or if it's a big artist, there's always a tour. But those are like once a year kind of things. So you're making a big chunk of money for three months. And that's all you have for that year. Let's say if that's the only artists that you work for, this is the backup singing world. Talking about. So, you know, having another job is not a bad idea. The same thing goes for session settings. If you do one session or maybe two sessions a month, maybe you're making, maybe you're making $500 on that day for that one session, and maybe the next time you do it, you made another 500. So that's you made $1,000 that month, you probably need another job, whether whether it's residuals coming in from other sessions you did or you sing in a choir that pays or you teach on the side, I think many of us do other things, which is why I was going back to the restaurant thing for me. That was my, you know, I was always I did waitressing and hostess saying and I was a receptionist. I had so many jobs like, my resume looks fortuitous. But I also I also did a lot of things that that's not on my website. You know, if I were to be like, Oh, yeah, look, I was on tour with Miley Cyrus but I was also a receptionist at Tata yo in Hollywood. Nobody knew.

Nick VinZant 12:00 Did you ever get discouraged throughout your career? Did you ever feel like you needed to try something else?

Sara Mann 12:06 I have done quite a bit of pounding the pavement throughout my life. You know, wanting to out of college, I wanted to be on Broadway. I moved to New York. I lived in New York, I auditioned for everything. I got called back for everything. I didn't get cast in most of those things. And there was a lot of disappointment there for me and then you kind of have to pave your own way. With one No, you know, comes a yes in a different form. I auditioned for Aida on Broadway. I didn't get the part. But the piano player liked me and said, Do you want to come audition for Harry Belafonte? And I was like, Sure. So then I went audition for Harry Belafonte. And I got a job as his backup singer. So I was like, you know, they're my, my lifelong dream of being on Broadway flipped to Okay, well, at least now I'm making money as a backup singer from for, you know, an amazing humanitarian and activist. So I'm not going to complain about this. But you know, I There's but there's still that little thing inside of me. It's like, I wish I would have, you know, stayed in New York and tried test a little bit harder to, you know, so I don't know, maybe it's that kind of thing. Maybe it's you maybe I should just go back to New York and but Broadway's not really working anyway.

Nick VinZant 13:17 Damned if you do, damned if you don't

Sara Mann 13:21 just become a doctor 60 by the time you graduate from med school, but that's okay.

Nick VinZant 13:27 As my as one of my uncle's said, you can always just sell drugs. Thanks. Thanks, uncle. That's really helpful. Um, how did you kind of get started?

Sara Mann 13:39 Well, that was it in a nutshell. I Went, went to college for musical theater. Once he graduated, moved and worked at a couple recording studios because I was still this is the thing I was still in college, but I'm still playing guitar and piano and writing my own songs. I got a record deal right out of college with MCA and recorded some stuff for them moved to New York. still wanted to be on Broadway. I mean, I was kind of doing this chameleon thing where I was, you know, whoever wanted me, whatever, whatever was going to pay the bills I would do as a singer. And then I had this, you know, audition, and the, like I said, the piano player was like, hey, Harry Belafonte is looking for a backup singer. Right now. We're having auditions tomorrow, you should come. And so my agent got the materials and they were messengered over to me, and I learned the stuff and it showed up the next day and I went through series of callbacks for that. But I ended up getting that gig and that led to, you know, more opportunities. For me, like I'm on an airplane going. I remember coming home from Puerto Rico or something with Harry Belafonte. I was sitting next to a guy who, when you're on the road, you always have luggage tags, numbered like luggage tags. So it's like You know, maybe there's 50 people on the tour, everybody gets a number one through 15. Usually, let's say Harry's number was number one, and I was in the band. So I had number eight, and I had all my bags have these tags on them. And the guy sitting next to me, whom I didn't know, had a number tag on his bag from a different tour. And it was a low, it was a low number, meaning, the more important you are, the lower the number is. So I knew this guy's was like number two or something on his bag. And I thought, okay, I wonder what I'm saying. And so I started, of course, he probably didn't even want to talk to me. But I started talking to him, and just got out the information out of them. He's the tour manager for Brian Setzer. And I was like, you know, in my head, I was like, Ding ding, ding, meaning, you know, this is a good opportunity for me to network, although I hate doing it. But I started talking to him. I got his name or he, you know, he said he might be looking for a new backup singer in a couple months. And I was like, Okay, great. You know, here's my info and I followed up with him. I got the audition. I went down to some recording studio in LA met Brian Setzer saying for him, didn't get the job. But then six months later, they had fired the girl that they did hire and they hired me. So, there's just another example of like, you know, right place, right time or right amount of, you know, the bigger the balls. I don't know, that was just me going. Okay. I better say something to him.

Nick VinZant 16:24 When you're auditioning when people are looking for a backup singer. Yeah, I would imagine that they, they want somebody who's obviously really good at it, but did they want them to not stand out too much at the same time?

Sara Mann 16:38 You mean vocally or physically?

Nick VinZant 16:40 Both, I guess.

Sara Mann 16:41 Right. Yeah. Vocal, you know, that's a that's a tough one. I don't know if I want to go on the record with any answer to that. I think it depends, I think, for look for Harry Belafonte. I had was just coming out of college. They, I mean, he, he must he has the biggest heart because I don't think I was really in an attractive place in my life. Like I think I was wearing this is like during Kurt Cobain, like Doc Martens and Levi's and flannels, I cut my hair really short. I were really dark brown lipstick. It was like the late 90s. And I thought, you know, I probably had like 15 pounds to lose. So but but vocally you know, I went in there and I was the right one for the job as a singer. So I but physically, I'm not sure if it really, you know, they kind of had to do a little bit of a makeover on me. I remember. They took me to like the Mac makeup store in New York and I got makeup lessons and they bought me all this stuff and they asked me to grow my hair out. I was asked to lose weight, actually, not specifically by Harry but somebody else on the team thought that it wouldn't be a bad idea if I maybe dropped 10 pounds. That was the first time in my life I'd ever heard something like that. I think that then there are other jobs that I've had where I was asked to double the lead singer. So, yeah, I had to be if just as good if not better than the person that I was singing with. And then physically, I mean, you kind of have to, you definitely don't want to stand. I mean, I don't know, I don't think anybody stands out that more than the star that's on stage. I mean, they don't have to light you that much. You can be in the dark if you want. But then again, you know, a lot of those backup singers are a lot better than who they're the lead singer is. You know, I but I know a lot of these people. So I really can't. I mean, I think, right. I mean, there's a movie called 20 feet from stardom that really touches on all this stuff. And if you've seen it Yeah, I mean, a lot of times the backup singers are a lot better than the person that they're Behind but that's that's just the, you know, I've had a couple of those jobs to where I'm, I'm just going, Oh my god, you know, you're just trying to help the person stay in tune that you're singing backup for.

Nick VinZant 19:12 But there's definitely instances where the backup singers would be better than the main singer.

Sara Mann 19:18 Oh, yeah, i a lot I'm sure a lot of the time, it's like that. I'm usually I think saying back up for Katharine McPhee for years. And I still, you know, anytime that I would be on stage with her, I would just be standing there with my jaw dropped because her voice is so gorgeous. Just like oh my god. So that mean that's an instance where I'm like, oh, God to have her voice, you know, like, I don't sing I don't sing like her. But I also you know, that you know, you can't sing if you think back for Celine Dion, you're definitely you're probably not better. You know what I mean?

Nick VinZant 19:53 That makes sense. To me. They're like, there's there's probably some people that are kind of studio creations and then there's Ones that like oh, wow, they are. Oh, they are the real deal

Sara Mann 20:04 Yeah, I mean I don't know if there are really studio creations anymore. I mean that because the the music business is so different now. I don't really know if I've given much thought to that to be honest because we're all up there. Even if somebody's not the greatest singer, like to be, to be really honest, I think Billy Eilish is super amazing and, and genius and talented and all of those things, but do I think she's the most amazing vocalist? No, I mean, she's, I think she's just got a package of all of this stuff, these amaze these songs and she's self produced all those and, you know, there's a whole thing there, but do I, you know, I don't think it's that hard to say, you know, do you do some of that kind of singing is like, okay, you know, I don't but she can't, but I would, you know, sing back up for a second. You know, because she's, she's an artist. And that's valuable.

Nick VinZant 21:02 Are you ready for some of the harder slash listener submitted questions? You've been a part of. Let's see Harry Belafonte, Miley Cyrus Billy Ray Cyrus, Katharine McPhee, Sheryl Crow, of all the tours that you've been a part of which one was the funnest tour for you?

Sara Mann 21:24 I'm gonna say Miley. That was just I mean, those being on tour with Miley is like an upper echelon of touring that I hadn't had a chance to do yet. Just flying private and being in like the most amazing hotels for seasons and you know, staying in these hotels and go we really went around the world, which and I had done that with with other people as well. But I think Miley the group, the band, we were all kind of little family and there were only seven eight of us and it was you know, it was fun we had we had some really good good times good tour bus parties and stuff. It was at a good time in my life. I was newly married but having you know, just just feeling like you're kind of in you're in the swing of things, you know?

Nick VinZant 22:21 Yeah, kind of prime of life so to speak.

Sara Mann 22:24 Like 30 years old and just sort of really in you know, no kids yet no major responsibility.

Nick VinZant 22:31 Like the world is yours kind of I know. The feeling right? like everything's kind of clicking was when Wait, which tour was that one was that the wrecking ball? Sara Mann 22:41 tour time was fine. wonderworld Miley worlds I think it was Miley world, or wonder. No wonder world. I'm calling it Miley world, but that's not right. This was like the tail end of the Disney stuff. So we did the climb, which was from her Hannah Montana. The movie We did party in the USA and then wreckingball was after. Okay, so this was a tour like right before that stuff. This is right before she the hair she she went rogue. It's Yeah,

Nick VinZant 23:15 that's like, right. It's kind of before she got really, really super famous, but also when she was kind of in her prime before people were like my Miley,

Sara Mann 23:24 I mean, she was super famous when we were on tour there, but it's a different there were so many screaming kids, it was just kids and like glow sticks for days and miles. And it was amazing. And stuffed animals and like all sorts of stuff. And I haven't been on tour with her in years, but I'm sure it's a totally different group of those kids now grew up, you know, they're in there, whatever they, you know, some of them are in their 20s because she's, she's what in her 30s now, I think so. So Low Earth, Earth 29 or something she was like 18 or 19 when we started when we run tour together it's been 10 years.

Nick VinZant 24:02 So when you go on these tours, is it like people imagine like Rock Star Tours? Who's having fun all the time and alcohol and drugs and crazy stuff? Or is it something else?

Sara Mann 24:13 Definitely a little bit of that? With Yes, but it's it. There's a lot of hard work though that I think people don't, don't realize that we're also doing like, for example, we maybe wake up at, let's say 4am for a lobby call. You drag all your stuff down to the lobby, you go you get on a bus or you Whatever it is, you get to an airport you get on an air first flight out at seven, you fly wherever you need to go if it's you know, sometimes it's like not a private plane, it's just a normal flight. And then you know, you get on and you land in Detroit and then you do as you know, you could go directly from the airport over to soundcheck which at the venue so it's like two o'clock and you do some kind of soundcheck for a couple hours. And then you might maybe have like an hour of downtime and then you go and you have dinner, then you kind of do hair and makeup, you get ready to go. You're really tired so at some point you'd probably tried to catch a nap whether that was on your tour bus if you had one or in the in that like I've I've literally taken folding chairs and put them together in a row like four of them in in my dressing room. And like take in my piece to take when with Harry's to take my costume was so big, it was like this big fluffy dress with different ruffles and stuff. And I could lay it over my body like a blanket and fall asleep like that. Or if it was winter, I would just use my winter coat. But like that's you know, you need if there was no couch for example in the room because a lot of these are like locker rooms for at stadiums and stuff. They're not like cushy dressing rooms the artist now has like they have all their furniture and stuff but you know, I'm just we're stuck in some room that like maybe some hockey team was playing in. So anyway, you could take like four folding chairs so you do that you get a nap you go then you get You've maybe you go have dinner, you go, you do your show the show's over at 11 o'clock at night, and then you finally get to go to bed. And maybe that's only for like five hours. And then you have to get up again and do the whole thing over again. If it's like if you're flying around, or sometimes you fall asleep on the bus, and you wake up that next morning at 7am or something and you're parked in Las Vegas where your next show is and you haven't taken a shower yet and you're not going to take one on the tour bus because nobody does that. But you have to wander inside the venue find you to find a cup of coffee, if you can, I mean, it's there are parts of it that are very, that can be rough, you know you're up there. I don't know how to explain there's, you need food, you know, there's sometimes there's food on your bus, but sometimes you know, you have to get an Uber and go find somewhere to eat breakfast because there's no breakfast on your bus. There might be some cereal and milk or something. But then there are moments where you have a couple days off and you're put up at four seasons insane St Louis or something, and you know you could to go and just see the town for a couple days which is lovely. And then that night you'll probably go have a nice dinner with your band and you know, go to the pool or whatever you know. And so it's, it's, there's a lot there's a lot of hard work there that traveling stuff, the scheduling, the lack of sleep, the lack of food, you don't really know when you're going to get it from where I used to just have snacks in my bag all the time. That kind of stuff. Even down to like when you're going to do your laundry, you know, I would wear my underwear inside out if I had to if I didn't have a chance to do laundry because you're doing it at the venue in a washer and dryer that you find or you have to find the time to go to the laundromat and do your clothes which is also not that glamorous. You know, it really varies. Or you throw down 20 bucks at the next hotel that you're at if you have two days there and you let them do your laundry which is nice to do or you go buy yourself some new clothes and just leave the old ones in hotel rooms. I would do that to get so tired of wearing the same things. I would just leave them somewhere, go here. Here's some jeans

Nick VinZant 28:08 Your favorite song that you've been on?

Sara Mann 28:10 favorite songs that I've been on?I say Hang on. Well, I sing on lady in the tramp, the remake of that recently. And we got to sing some of the original cues over again, which was like a really amazing moment for me that was one of my favorite movies as a kid. So I would say that stuff I also think some of the demos so I didn't get to sing. It didn't go final or anything but I got to sing all the he's a trained and I love him done.Hey, the trail. You know, all that. Janell Monet ended up doing it for the movie, but I got to sing all the demos for it which was like really cool for me.

Nick VinZant 29:00 So, this one's kind of interesting.Um, you don't have to say if this person is good or bad, but person who is least like their public perception,

Sara Mann 29:12 a person who is least like their public perception. I don't think I've worked with anybody that's not quite true to who they are. You know,

Nick VinZant 29:22 obviously you've done a lot of backup work, but you put out some solo stuff as well, right?

Sara Mann 29:28 Yeah, I have. I have a couple of different records over the years but I have a couple singles that I put out recently I did. There's one called human there's another one called the rack like these are just songs that I write and then I we produce them and I just put them out just because I feel like I need to keep keep the wheels turning, you know the other stuff, which is my my own creative stuff. It was, you know, always more of the dream for me to be the lead singer, not the backup singer. But you know, life works however it works. And I did put out a record, which is super close to my heart called lullabies, which is, I did a duet with Billy Ray Cyrus on it actually. And that's on iTunes also. That's a whole other story, but it the proceeds for that record, go to the Polycystic Kidney Disease Foundation, my ex husband and I had a son who died from polycystic kidney disease. So, at the time that all of that was going on, I wanted to do something kind of healing for myself. I felt like I had singers block like I just couldn't make sound after he died. And there was a good year where I was kind of, you know, not silent, but just couldn't sing. It made me want to cry every time I had to sing. It just brought up that that emotional stuff I guess singing in itself can be very emotional and anyway, so I decided to make a lullaby record and I, that's, that's another thing that I've done. That's there. That's my solo stuff.

Nick VinZant 31:08 Pretty much all the questions that I have, honestly, we kind of covered everything else. what's coming up next for you?

Sara Mann 31:16 Well, I'm gonna be doing some banana bread later. And

Nick VinZant 31:21 sounds really good actually. Can't go wrong with banana bread.

Sara Mann 31:25 I'm cooking some banana bread and dinner for my four children I'm singing on I'm doing some home record stuff. It's a lot of hard. It's a lot of work to that we've, you know, been so grateful to have but there's that's uh, you know, just that kind of stuff you know you're given a song and they go okay sing it you have to record yourself now. So now not only am I supposed to have my voice on this, I also have to engineer it. And you know, that takes input you know, kind of self produced the vocals and It takes it's a whole other skill that I've, luckily I learned how to do some of that a few years ago when I started doing voiceover work. But now we're like everybody's recording from home. So it's there's a real learning curve.

Nick VinZant 32:13 I want to thank Sara, so much for joining us if you want to connect with her, we have linked to her on our social media, or Profoundly Pointless on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. And we've also included her information in the RSS feed that's on this podcast. I just think that her story is so fascinating. Because here you have someone that has just been a part of such huge musical and entertainment moments. And there's so much that happens behind the scenes that you just don't know about. And I think that she just has an interesting perspective on all of those things.