His body aches, his toe nails are falling off and he's hallucinating from a lack of sleep, but Ultra Runner Ian Morgan couldn't be happier. We talk 150 mile runs, training and nutrition secrets and the hardest run in the world. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Life Accomplishments.
Interview with Ultra Runner Ian Morgan
Speakers:
Nick VinZant: Profoundly Pointless Host
Ian Morgan: Ultra Runner
Episode Highlights
What happens to your body during an Ultramarathon
Ultra running training methods
Ultra running nutrition
Hallucinating during an ultra marathon
Hardest Ultramarathon in the world
Best Ultramarathon in the world
Nick VinZant 0:14 Hey everybody, welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, we are going for a long, long run. And then we're counting down the top five life accomplishments.
Ian Morgan 0:27 When we say upwards of a marathon distance that can be anything from 30 miles to 50 miles to 200 plus miles. There's a common denominator of wanting to challenge yourself in a world where everything is so accessible. This is something that you can just buy. You start to get things like hallucination.
Nick VinZant 0:48 hallucinations, like you'll be out there just running and hallucinating at the same time.
Ian Morgan 0:53 Yeah, it's, it's actually quite common usually in the second night, trees, rocks and things come to life. You're look like a rabbit jumping across the path, you'll see people. And even sometimes they talk to you, you just gotta mentally say, Okay, I've got to put one foot in front of the other, and I've got to take some food and I've got to drink some water. And I'm just gonna keep moving forward, just like life.
Nick VinZant 1:15 I want to thank you guys so much for joining us. If you get a chance, like, download, subscribe, share, we really appreciate it, it really helps us out. So I've always been fascinated by people who pushed the limit, push the limit in terms of what the human body and what our minds are capable of, whether that's running 50 miles, 75 miles, 100 miles, 150 miles. Our first guest is an ultra runner, who is really pushing the boundaries of what his body and mind are capable of. And I think that when you do that, you'll hear in this interview exactly what that does to your body and mind. And there's also this fascinating insight into the difference between being motivated and being driven.This is ultra runner Ian Morgan. What separates an ultra runner from just a regular runner?
Ian Morgan 2:09 I guess I could what distance are we talking ultra running? ultra running is any distance over the marathon distance, which is 26.2 miles for the US listeners and 42.2 kilometers for the metric countries that are listening. So any distance over a marathon distance is considered an ultra. Now, generally, ultras are usually run in trial type environments. So in the hills mountains, as far as I know, anyway, that's off road, but there are ultras that around on the roads as well. When we say upwards of a marathon distance that can be anything from 30 miles to 50 miles to 200 plus miles.
Nick VinZant 2:55 At this point, what's the longest one that you've done?
Ian Morgan 2:59 At this point 280 kilometers from memory, just Yes, I think 290 kilometers. So what would that be? 100 and 70 something miles.
Nick VinZant 3:14 But when we talk about running it like, are you running it running it like you're running the whole time?
Ian Morgan 3:21 No. For those that don't run ultras, it's not like a marathon where you go from point A to point B, and you're running at a reasonably consistent pace. And ultra, for instance, one I've run 100 miler, it had 10,000 meters of elevation gain throughout the race, which is about 30,000 feet. So certainly on some of those big climbs, you're just walking them even the the elite professionals walk or power height the climbs so so yeah, it's not running at a consistent pace all the time. It's a combination of walking running and sitting down and having something to eat now and again.
Nick VinZant 4:05 iIs there any crying involved? I feel like there would be a lot of crime involved.
Ian Morgan 4:10 There is some crying involved.It's different for everyone. I've certainly seen some interesting situations is there's crying, there's bleeding. There's secretion of various bodily fluids at different points. Yeah, that's an interesting type of environment to be in. However, it's also a very rewarding one.
Nick VinZant 4:34 What is it? I mean, you know, for me, somebody who hates to run more than basically down the stairs. Like what what is it about it that is attracted to you and to other people? Like why do people want to do this?
Ian Morgan 4:48 Again, an interesting question, Nick.I think it draws a wide variety of people. Certainly if you look at a bunch of ultra runners at the start line, we've got people from all types professions from doctors, lawyers, car mechanics, teachers, I think there's there's a common denominator of wanting to challenge yourself in a world where everything is so accessible 24 seven, you can just order stuff on the internet now, you can get a lot of stuff done for you. This is something that you can't just buy, you have to earn and you have to work hard to earn it. You can't just go out and decide to run an ultra. It does take a fair bit of effort planning. And, and and it's challenging not just physically but mentally,
Nick VinZant 5:37 When when you look at the different lengths of the races, is that a 75 mile race that much harder than a 50 mile race.
Ian Morgan 5:47 Well, once again, it depends on the terrain like a 50 mile race on the road is going to be a lot a 50 mile race sir right in the desert MikeA lot more challenging than a 75 mile race on a road. road course. So it really depends on the terrain. And yeah, that, you know, as the distance increases, it does push your, your physical limits a lot more, you start to get things like calorie deficit, dehydration. And also the longer the race if you maybe you might go through two nights where you don't sleep, you start to get things like hallucinations or or sleep deprivation. So, yeah, there can be challenges in different distances for sure.
Nick VinZant 6:36 hallucinations like you'll be out there just running and hallucinating at the same time.
Ian Morgan 6:43 Yeah, yeah, it's, it's actually quite common, usually in the second night. In fact, most people who have never run a really long ultra Yeah, be prepared for that. You'll you'll see trees, rocks and things come to life. Your look like a rabbit jumping across the path. You'll see people Even sometimes they talk to you. It's quite normal. And once you once you've experienced that a few times, you will learn to embrace it and just accept it.
Nick VinZant 7:10 Yeah, but it is interesting. Yeah, I've never heard that. Like, I feel like that's a sign that your body is saying, Hey, man, I don't know if you should be doing this.
Ian Morgan 7:20 While certainly your mind does play tricks on you after a lack of sleep, yeah,
Nick VinZant: like what what usually goes first for you? Is it? Is it the mental part? Or is it the physical part that you struggle more with?
Ian Morgan 7:31 I think for most for me, personally, I think it's, I think it's more mental. And I think for most people it is but it's not that it goes so much. Because after a while you actually learn to, to, to embrace it. And in saying that, you've got to remember I'm 50 years old now. So I've had a lifetime of business staff and the successes and failures and so senses, family issues. I've got four grown up kids.I've been through a divorce. I've been through personal health issues, you know, so. So I think life kind of prepares you in some ways for these ultras, in the sense that you mentally you develop a certain amount of, well, I've just got to get this done just like you do in life. There's usually not a lot of options.When you're faced with a lot of this stuff, you just got to actually do with it. And ultra runnings kind of the same physically, your body starts to get sore gets tired things get, you know, the wheels start to fall off, I guess. And you just gotta mentally say, Okay, I've got to put one foot in front of the other. I've got to take some food and I've got to drink some water, and I'm just gonna keep moving forward, just like life.
Nick VinZant 8:48 How did you kind of get started? What did you specifically set out to start in ultra running? Or did you just start running in this was kind of a natural progression.
Ian Morgan 8:56 Yeah. It was a natural progression. I just had it running.I was a, an overweight business guy. And I was under a lot of stress at this point in my life. Rest seven years ago, I think naffaa memory. We just had some we had some earthquakes a few years previous I was dealing with a lot of insurance issues, finding them in court, etc, etc. And I was just really unhappy in my life. My marriage at the time was falling apart, etc. And, and I just remember when I was a kid, their happiest moments was when I was running in the hills then and I just got up and started to run for no other reason than that. I just thought I just want to find some happiness in my life again, and all the things in my life at the time, just seemed to be stressing me and bang I just got up started to run wasn't very pretty at first. And it just grew from there and there was never a plan to travel the world and run ultras does this just so
Nick VinZant 10:02 are you pretty athletic before this? Like, did you do a lot of sports? Or did you just kind of develop this over time?
Ian Morgan 10:10 I did when I was a kid. That's a very fair and high school. But after that, I actually got quite fat.Serve Andrea, I didn't, I really did very little at all. I did nothing at all except eat and drink.So, yeah, I mean, there was obviously some, some ability there as a teenager, however, I think 20 odd years of bad eating and bad lifestyle and stress took their toll. And it was a lot of hard work to bounce back to what I'm doing now. It wasn't hard work in the sense I was. I was trying to lose weight or get a six pack or anything like this. It was just that I had such a passion to pursue running. That's what I actually enjoy. I enjoy something that seems impossible to me or group difficult from to achieve right now, and I think that's one of the keys.
Nick VinZant 11:03 You mentioned that you are 50. Are you older, younger about the same as most of the other people who do this?
Ian Morgan 11:09 Probably older. Most people get into this by sort of retired from the road running and get into this, and they're probably 30s. I mean, certainly the elite guys are now starting to get on in their 20s. And we're seeing a lot more of that. But as the sport grows, the popularity of the sport grows around the world.
Nick VinZant 11:30 What's your normal week of training look like? leading up to leading up to a race event?
Ian Morgan 11:37 really depends on the event but as a general rule, for example, last week, I did 150 kilometers. So what would that be I don't know about just under 100 miles last week, plus, that's just ramping plus strength training and some swimming. And that's even on holiday. It can go up to like you know, 100 plus My weeks for some of the bigger events, but I generally have somewhere between,let's say sort of, I think 60 miles a week will be an average 60 to 65 miles a week will be an average over the year, if you had like,
Nick VinZant 12:16 but if you had 100 mile race coming up, you're not going to try to run 100 mile race before not right?
Ian Morgan 12:23 No, no, not at all. Not at all. So so you're not going to put up with ultra running, you build up an endurance base with a lot of the work you do and you do a lot more strength training to build, like strength and stability into your body. So you can basically stay out right for that period of time while you're running or moving through the hills. So yeah, you know, it depends. I haven't coach so a lot of the time he'll study the race. I'm going to run and he'll sit my training. So some weeks might be quite light and easy. Other weeks might be quite big.
Nick VinZant 12:57 How many calories like the you go through a day.
Ian Morgan 13:02 For example, this weekend, I'd run run about the slot weekend just been I've run I don't know, about 90 kilometers. what's what's there now about 50 miles over the weekend plus some swimming and strength training, that will probably burn like 8000 calories just for that training alone plus my normal calories of walking around and doing other stuff. So yeah, I mean, you do have to eat.And, but it's really about eating the foods that that fuel you. So people usually say, Well, I guess I can just go and eat pizza and doughnuts as much as you want. Well, it's not entirely true. You have to like eat foods that that help your muscles recover and help your body recover and and fuel you for the next training session.
Nick VinZant 13:55 Man, what are your knees like though?
Ian Morgan 13:58 Yeah, fine. You know, this is a common question people ask runners, what about your knees? It's actually most runners I know have really good knees. You learn to do strength work, you learn to look after your body a lot more. I mean, I'm focused a lot on recovery, which involves things like physio strength training, stretching, drinking enough fluids and taking care of your body so you came to like take care of of small niggles or issues a lot sooner than maybe the average person would. So yeah, they no issues.
Nick VinZant 14:36 Is there like a certain body type that most ultra marathon or ultra runners have like, are they I'm imagining somebody that's fairly tall are they fairly short, like what's the kind of the common body type?
Ian Morgan 14:49 I do come in all shapes and sizes but it is a common role. I think you would say probably shorter and and skinnier along the way.Guys moment at the champion of the fair would be field would, would be, I don't know the weight in pounds, but in kilos, a lot of guys sort of between about 60to 65 kilos and a lot of woman are about 40 to 50 kilos. So very light very short usually, I'm there are exceptions to the rule. I mean I'm I'm six foot one, six foot one a bit, and 75 are best 74 kilos at the moment. So you know there are different types but as a general rule smaller and lighter.
Nick VinZant 15:36 Are you ready for some of the harder slash listener submitted questions?
Ian Morgan 15:41 Well, let's give them a go.
Nick VinZant 15:43 When is the last time your nipples have bled?
Ian Morgan 15:46 Um, it's been a long time actually. Generally what happens is, is they after a few races of them bleeding, they harden up it's like getting calluses on your feet.After a while, the skin just gets hot and I haven't had that issue for years.
Nick VinZant 16:04 Is runner's high really a thing?
Ian Morgan 16:07 Yes, it is. Most definitely, usually it happens in the earliest stages of running. When your body releases those endorphins and you get that rush and yeah, it has happened to me and it's amazing when it does doesn't generally happen so much as you become more experienced your body adapts and and and doesn't give you that. That feeling as much.
Nick VinZant 16:33 If you're on out there on like, let's say 100 kilometer race, like At what point in that race? Are you going to think like, Oh my gosh, I'm starting to feel tired.
Ian Morgan 16:45 That can vary between about 50 kilometers in to like the last five kilometers to go.
Nick VinZant 16:53 Just kind of depends on like the race itself or your mental state or what is it exactly,
Ian Morgan 16:59 it depends on the race, how much sleep you got the night before if you had to travel halfway around the world to be at the event, so there's a number of factors. Each race is so different bucket list race that you would like to do a bucket list. Let me see there is one that I was going to be doing this year, but it's been postponed to next year. It is the snowman race. It is in the Himalayan mountains of Bhutan, 300 kilometers. And with an I think an average altitude of 4000 plus meters, which is what for I think was about 12 to 12 to 40,000 feet. That's the base elevation. So you're going to be climbing up more than that at some points.
Nick VinZant 17:46 Are the organizers of these things basically just trying to figure out the hardest possible thing that they could do.
Ian Morgan 17:53 Sometimes it feels like that but no, this this event was the snowman race was put on by the king of Bhutan to celebrate his wedding anniversary.But looks like we'll be celebrating it next year instead. But yeah, I think the organizers they do tend to find something that's more challenging now, we're seeing more and more extreme stuff and more difficult events.
Nick VinZant 18:22 Is there a point though, where somebody's just gonna like Look man, we can't do this. We're gonna run 100 kilometers straight up Everest.
Ian Morgan 18:32 Yeah, well, I think what's gonna happen is there's obviously a safety issue involved in the sense that you can make a race quite extreme, but if you're gonna make it too extreme, you're you gonna limit the the ability of people to complete it and be completed safely.So I think races certainly have to look at the level of experience that some runners have in regards to what they can actually achieve. Say I think that there's gonna be a certain ceiling or limit, that that's not going to include the entire population. Just for the mere fact that that you don't want people having issues on the course.
Nick VinZant 19:13 Hardest race that you've ever done. Hardest race that you think is out there.
Ian Morgan 19:18 Hardest race I've ever done. Probably I did a desert race and I never ran in the desert before and running up and down sand dunes and hate was certainly a challenge. However, I loved it. I lost I think nine toenails in that race.Hardest race I think out there. I don't know. I guess they're bringing new ones in all the time. I hated the Barkley marathons. The one that it's in the US is quite mentally challenging. I think there's a documentary on Netflix about it. But it's challenging in a mental way more than a physical
Nick VinZant 20:00 I'm actually seen that documentary. It's pretty good. It the race itself doesn't look like I didn't look that hard. But it's obviously must be hard if nobody's really finishing it.
Ian Morgan 20:09 Yeah, that's the thing. I think it's a mental challenge on that one.
Nick VinZant 20:13 What happens to your feet when you lose nine toenails? Well, they swell up a little bit.
Ian Morgan 20:20 You actually get used to it, I end up taking usually a small knife with me to the events where I know I'm going to lose some toenails, and I just chopped them off. When they start to come loose that way. It's just so much easier to run. If you've got half an hour hanging there and it's digging into your skin hurts more. Whereas if you just get a knife and like, cut them out. It's just so much better to run. So yeah, you get used to it.
Nick VinZant 20:45 It's such an interesting dichotomy that some people hearing that will absolutely never want to do this and some people will absolutely be like, sign me up and there's no in between, right.
Ian Morgan 20:57 That's right. Yeah. You know, if you told me this before I started ultra running, I would say there's no way I could even handle them. It's like people think turnouts out for torture, you know. Then when it happens, your thing is not so bad.
Nick VinZant 21:12 What happens to your body on a long run? That wouldn't happen necessarily if you're running just five or six miles like something that would that was completely unexpected for you.
Ian Morgan 21:23 You started to get cramps in places you didn't know cramps could happen. Dehydration is a big one to watch.I don't know. Like I said the lack of sleep is a big one. But that's a that's a race not a long run. You get used to the distances that you train for. So you know, a marathon distance runner will probably their long run is what they 20 miles 22 miles usually, an ultra runner their long run might be a be 30 miles. So you get used to the distances you're trained for
Nick VinZant 21:58 what motivates you
Ian Morgan 22:00 I think motivation is a is an interesting word in the sense that, I mean, I certainly use it on Instagram and hashtags. There's these terms motivation Monday and all this kind of stuff. However, I think motivation is is something that wanes, a lot of people are motivated when they see a video or they see someone achieve something that they would like to do. I think, for me, consistency and discipline are probably more important words. I find, if I'm consistent with doing the work, and I'm disciplined enough to do it, then then I'll find the motivation. Motivation is the thing that sort of comes last off first for me. When you look at it, you know, a lot of a lot of ultra runners.
Nick VinZant 22:45 Are they kind of like, hey, somebody's gonna come in, they're gonna do this for a year or two, and then you're never gonna see him again. Or two people usually kind of stick around for the long haul.
Ian Morgan 22:55 Yeah, a lot of people usually there for the long haul, the only issue that are I've noticed in the sport in the last few years is maybe more some of the younger folks coming through is they are young, they're very strong, they're very fit and they push to the point of like burning themselves out. So you might see them for two or three years and then they're gone. And I think that's, that's something to look at. And that comes with life experience, too is, is consistency is the key not not just pushing to the absolute limit every single time and then burning out. So yeah, I'm seeing more and more people burning themselves out and more probably at a younger level than at an older level.
Nick VinZant 23:41 If you were gonna pick like one race one event, as somebody who said, I'm gonna do one of these, and that's, that's it. I'm just gonna prove to myself I can do this. Which one would you say like all you got to do this one.
Ian Morgan 23:54 For sheer beauty and an incredible scenery and a challenge, I would say La Sportiva Lavaredo Ultra Trail in Italy, it's just an amazing event. The dolomite mountains are simply beautiful and it's tough. It's not one you're gonna just jog through. But it is an incredible experience.
Nick VinZant 24:15 This is the last question for me. I mean, when you're running 100 plus miles, like what are you thinking about the whole time?
Ian Morgan 24:23 But actually, a lot of the time, you're just enjoying the process, one foot in front of the other looking at the scenery around you talking to other people checking in with your body, you know, what, how is everything feeling? Am I hungry? Am I thirsty? Am I tired? And the time passes very quickly, actually, you'd be surprised like you can be out there for anywhere between 13 to 30 hours and and the time goes really quickly.
Nick VinZant 24:52 That's really all the questions I got, man. What's the guy missed anything? what's coming up next for you?
Ian Morgan 24:58 what's coming up next. I have an event in the UK on September the 19th 125 kilometers. I think it's in the south downs, that's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be a lot of fun. There's a few good ultra runners coming to that as well. So I'm looking forward to the challenge, then I'm really not sure the rest calendar for them for the rest of the year is still up in the air, but most races are still waiting to confirm various events because of obviously, the you know, restrictions in regards to COVID or regards to the current pandemic, I should say, situations throughout the world. So yeah, I'm looking forward to my race in September then we will see I have quite a few events planned but I have to hear back from the races and my sponsors to see which ones will go ahead.
Nick VinZant 25:56 I mean, is this for a lot for yourself or for a lot of ultra runners like is this is this a full time living?
Ian Morgan 26:03 Probably not for a lot of ultra runners but yes certainly for myself and the pros or the elites, it's not a sport like professional baseball or football where there is a huge salary packages. It is growing and it is becoming more monetized. But yeah, I make a living out of it. I also do you know, like my social media work have sponsors which I'm very grateful for. And I have a lot of support from from the ultra running community and the online community. So I managed to get by doing this full time which I'm very grateful for.
Nick VinZant 26:43 We we just got this question this one isn't in but somebody just sent me this. I want to ask you this one better thing to come out of New Zealand, Lord of the Rings Flight of the Conchords or hunt for the Wilderpeople.
Ian Morgan 26:58 Oh wow.Yeah yeah oh very good our two good movies and TV show huh Flight of the Conchords is very Kiwi humor Lord of the Rings probably. I think half most of the world's probably seen it.For the world of people is hilarious.I'm gonna go to the Conchords because it's very key way and probably only Kiwis will get most of the jokes.
Nick VinZant 27:26 I want to thank Ian so much for joining us if you want to connect with him, we have a link to him on our social media accounts, or Profoundly Pointless on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. And we have also included his information in the RSS feed that's on this podcast. His Instagram is really cool. It's really interesting, even outside of an ultra runner perspective, perspective, because there's so much inspirational content that's on there.And it's also it's really cool for just seeing some beautiful places in the world.