Skiptrace Investigator Jon Dalman
Skiptrace Investigator Jon Dalman specialized in finding people who don’t want to be found. We talk skiptracing, what being a Bounty Hunter is really like and the hardest type of people to find. Then, from Halle Berry and Jon Hamm to Jerry Rice and Fiona Apple, we countdown the Top 5 Celebrities with Food Names.
Jon Dalman: 01:23
Pointless: 34:06
Top 5 Celebrity Food Names: 46:31
Interview with Skiptrace Investigator Jon Dalman
Nick VinZant 0:12
Nick, welcome to profoundly pointless. My name is Nick vinzant Coming up in this episode skip tracing and celebrity food.
Jon Dalman 0:21
So for the people that we go after, someone else has already tried to find them, and so the ones that come to us are the kind of hardest of the hard. A lot of people dodge subpoenas. They're being called because they are a witness to their boss's affair, or it's the accountant for someone who's been arrested for fraud. Think about like a bell curve and people who have a lot of money and people who have no money, those are the ones that go off grid.
Nick VinZant 0:52
I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance subscribe, leave us a rating or review. We really appreciate. It really helps us out. If you're a new listener, welcome to the show. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of your support. So I want to get right to our first guest, because he specializes in finding people who don't want to be found. This is investigator John Dahlman, So how hard is it to find somebody?
Jon Dalman 1:24
It's the hardest part of the job. Finding people who are intentionally trying to not be found are very difficult, especially in this this day and age, and if they have a little bit of money, they have a network of family and friends they could stay with. It could be very difficult.
Nick VinZant 1:43
Why? Why is it hard? Is it hard because people are good at kind of disappearing, or is it hard just No, it's just a hard thing to do. These people aren't good. It's just a hard thing to do.
Jon Dalman 1:54
So for the people that we go after, someone else has already tried to find them. So to find you or another, what we call a citizen, isn't particularly hard. You're like, oh yeah, he's in the white pages and oh look, he pays a phone bill here, and he gets mail here. He banks here. His cards are registered here. That's no problem. That's easy to find the folks that come to us our last resort for our clients, and that's usually attorneys, and so when they come to us, the cops have already tried and failed. The service attempts our background is bounty hunters. It's the same skill set that goes around. The same things that it took to catch a bail jumper are the same skill set, the same tools, the same mindset is involved to catch people who are running on service documents. And so the ones that come to us are the kind of hardest of the
Nick VinZant 2:58
hard on average, like, how long would it generally take for you to find somebody so you get the phone call? How long does it usually take to like, before you can track them down?
Jon Dalman 3:08
That's good question. It's funny because it could vary wildly. We'll have a case where we work it for two, three weeks of leads and possibilities. And Alex finds a traffic ticket in another county, and they put an address down, and we see, oh, you know, he was staying at a house there. Who's this woman he was staying with? Find her on Facebook. Look at her Facebook friends. Oh, he's not tagging Oh, that's his ex girlfriend, just down the line. Until it finally kind of comes to fruition. But there are times when Alex is open soon, Peter says, Yeah, this file came in. They've done this. They can't find them, and in five six minutes, she's getting a cup of coffee. Says, Yeah, I found out he's, he's, he's staying at his brother's house over in this place. And my time in the field depends on how many hits and misses we have until we figure out someone's schedule. And so that could be multiple attempts. And the attempts aren't really time conclude, really intensive, but the getting there and everything else, the logistics of travel can be time consuming. I would say we have a case like right now. We probably have about 30 open cases, and that rotates all the time, and we probably close 10 to 15 cases a week. Let
Nick VinZant 4:33
me kind of back up a little bit. So the call comes in. We need you to find, let's just use my name. We need you to find Nick vinzant. Like, how does this whole process work?
Jon Dalman 4:43
So the call comes in, Alex is the best. She's like, takes the call, handles. It says, Okay, send me what you got. Email comes in. She starts looking, she's like, looking at prior services of entry, of failed services that the sheriff has made that. Their servers have made any information they have booking sheets from if there was a crime associated to it, prior arrest, little background check, then initial searches begin on databases for addresses. We have the same access to databases as private investigators that, like the police would have, so you could type it in. It's not just like Facebook or yellow pages or white pages that you just type it in. Oh, and this is where they live. We have access to people's address history, and then we could go to their relatives history as well. And then it kind of starts going to social media, and that really does help close a lot of cases, or at least fill in some big gaps of what's going on in our people's life. You might think, well, he used to live here. He's divorced from this person. He's got a mom that lives here. He's unemployed now, and if you could find his social media most, most of the time, Facebook is the best for this, and fill in those gaps. Okay, he's got a new girlfriend, and he's got a new job, and he stays here, those kind of things. Fill it in. And then Alex is able to kind of pinpoint some addresses for me to go knock on doors. Why
Nick VinZant 6:21
are you usually trying to find these people? Like, what's the reason that they're usually trying to be found
Jon Dalman 6:27
for us now? So, as you know, for seven years or so, seven, eight years, we were we work for bail bondsman, doing the same thing. So when people would fail to appear for court, the bondsman would contract Alex and myself to find the defendant, and then for me to go find him at their house or wherever it is, put them in my car and take them back to jail for the bondsman, the people now are dodging pay. Well, that's it's a great question, because some people are voiding service accidentally because they are so kind of viscous in their living situations that people just can't find them. They stay on other people's couches. They don't have a car registered to them. They work labor jobs or off the books. They don't bank their phone is kind of pay by the minute. We can't really pinpoint them, so they're kind of avoiding service just by default of the way their lifestyle is. Most people that are dodging have something to lose, child support payments, child custody modification, emergency hearings for people subpoenas. A lot of people dodge subpoenas. They're being called because they are a witness to their boss's affair, or it's the accountant for someone who's been arrested for fraud, and they're being sued civilly, so they want to get them and they're not making themselves available for service. A lot of times. Also, tort we've had some cases dog bites, slipping things where people have been injured, have been wronged, and they need to be and the people who are responsible for that need to be served, and they don't want to be any part of that.
Nick VinZant 8:13
Did they now, the thing that I always see is like, from what, like, what I know about, did they have to identify themselves and say, like, my name, or like, how can you serve somebody? Or, like, kind of bring closure to this, right?
Jon Dalman 8:25
That's a good question, because I get of a lot, actually, from even people who are getting service, they'll say to me, Well, I didn't tell you my name, or you didn't say you've been served. Like, I'm like, watch too much TV. Man, it's not like that. All the research we do, we have pictures of the people involved, and I can, if I can identify you positively, and you won't take it, I'll just drop it at your feet. I'm like, oh, that's no problem. I run the body camera and I'll say, okay, they'll say, Well, I'm not Nick, no way. I'm not him. That's my brother. I'm like, Okay, no problem. I'm just, if you want to take I'm just gonna drop him at your feet. Alright, have a good day. And I walk off. We have a video of it. We do an affidavit. I'm like, I identified the gentleman as Nick he was six foot tall, 180 pounds, which lines up with what we saw this and that I identified him, his car in the driveway, his license plate was this, which is his car that's registered to him, and that we fill the affidavit out, and if you say then it's happened, and it's one of the most glorious things of our job. Is when someone denies that they were identified properly or served, and they tell their lawyer and our lawyer and their lawyer get together, and our lawyer says, Well, let me show you the laptop footage here of your client screaming in the yard. I'm not me, and it's amazing. It's like just a chef's kiss for our job. And that happens.
Nick VinZant 9:49
How do people usually take it? There's
Jon Dalman 9:52
no rhyme or reason for it. There's people who are it's arguably the worst news they've ever had in their entire life. You. I served a gentleman last week divorce papers, and we caught him at his new girlfriend's house, and I give him the documents, and he's just like, Okay, thanks. I'm like, Have a good day. He's like, Yeah, you too, and we part ways. You think he might go bananas, but that's that. But then there might be someone whose insurance is covering something. It's a minor fender bender. They're just been avoiding service because they don't think it's fair that people still sue you whatever it is, and they lose their minds, screaming, yelling, dodging, whatever. It doesn't happen very often. Knock on wood. Probably, I think last year we served personally 1200 1300 people, and we're above that. This year, I would say, if we end up getting say just 1300 again this year, I would say hostile, probably 200
Nick VinZant 11:02
how does that kind of different from when you were a bounty hunter? Like, how did those interactions of like, Oh, I found you. How do those differ between the two of them? So
Jon Dalman 11:12
you could it's, I didn't. When I was bounty hunting full time, I prided myself on not being a hard ass, not huffing and puffing and going bananas on people and just being polite and again, try not to insert myself and getting them to open the door, but if they couldn't, I saw my guy in there. There was options. You could kick a door. You can do things like that, not very often, but those it was more wide open because the defendant themselves had signed a fourth amendment waiver, the right to privacy. Everything was all you were kind of like, you just go, but process service is completely different. At the door, you don't have any of those options. You're not kicking the door. They haven't signed anything over there. They haven't done anything wrong, you know, they're just don't want to see you. So it takes a little bit more Verbal Judo or a little bit more seduction at the door, a little bit to kind of get it to happen. You know, we put about 600 people in jail while doing bail for seven years, full time, I guess six, 700 people, whatever it was. And just through all those numbers, all those people, there becomes a point where there's nothing you really haven't seen on people you haven't dealt with. So your skills, kind of you have to just be fluid and change your thing. If someone's yelling at you, or someone's being nice to you or this kind of got to be malleable in your approach, and it's the same as process service. Ultimately, though, the the fact that you don't have to throw them in the car and take away their freedom does make process service a little bit easier to close. But with bail, you had some rules, or lack of rules, that kind of might have made it easier to get there.
Nick VinZant 13:10
That makes sense. You had a little bit like, you could, kind of, the system was a little bit more in your favor. You could do a little more, right?
Jon Dalman 13:17
And you had financial leverage over people. If they were staying with their co signer, they're like, Listen, man, that's fine. You don't have to bring him out of his room. That's fine. The bail bond is going to send you a demand letter tomorrow for $25,000 so that's okay. Let Junior stay in the house. So if you tell me he's not here, that's fine. I'll be back tomorrow with the demand letter that you signed. Your right to even fight it in court. I'm gonna bring that to you for $25,000 tomorrow, so I'll see you later. You have that leverage bail is wild.
Nick VinZant 13:47
The one thing that I like when somebody kind of goes completely off the grid, right, like,
Jon Dalman 13:52
right,
Nick VinZant 13:53
how do they even live off the grid? So to speak, like, did what? Like, I don't know how you would even exist without that like, or like, you're not using a credit card, you're not on social media, you don't have a job. Like, how do these people who are really hard to find? Like, what are they doing?
Jon Dalman 14:09
That's to the point. That is to the point of who's hardest to catch. Type people are the ones who are, like, totally off the grid. And how they do that is, think about like a bell curve, and people who have a lot of money and people who have no money, those are the ones that go off grid. Most people, the 90% of the people in the middle, are easy to find. It's the ones that have a lot of money, the resources, who are like, Oh man, the process servers come to my house every evening. This would be a good time to eat, to go to Chicago for a week. I'm gonna go visit my family in Florida for two weeks. They can just go. They have the means to just take off. People who have absolutely close to nothing are very hard to find as well, and those Absolutely. Like street like, door to door, human Intel to close. You've got to get someone you got to get a hotel manager. You got an apartments maintenance guy. You got to get a disgruntled baby mama, whoever that is, to say he's staying over at the Motel Six on Jimmy Carter. That's how you get those guys, the ones with a lot of money, you're patient, and if you have a lot of money and you're running around and you actually are staying close, I'll get you at a social arrangement. I'll get you at a child custody drop off. I'll get you when I know you're going to be somewhere that you're associated to a charity or something like that. I'll get you in public.
Nick VinZant 15:44
Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?
Jon Dalman 15:47
Oh yeah.
Nick VinZant 15:48
So kind of going in along that line, we were just talking about most interesting place that you've ever served somebody,
Jon Dalman 15:55
I would say gentlemen's clubs. We've had a number of cases that involve strip strip clubs, I would say, suing, like naming, like the entire city council of a city who has been named in a civil suit, and walking into the middle of like public comments in A in a city meeting, like a city council meeting, one feet, doing that type thing, just walking down the line, handing them out to Commissioner, commissioner, Commissioner, like that. People's work, every line of work, also inside people's houses. I know a lot of people don't like to do that. I'm pretty comfortable with it, because my background in bail, but inside people's houses can be really weird, like it gets a little off the rails, because there's that there's an invasion of privacy of sorts, that they're like, you might not want to come the door and you know your your roommate says, Oh yeah, he's in the bedroom. And you're like, No, don't let him in the house. And all of a sudden, I'm in there. It gets really weird. That's where you live, and not where I live, and I'm there, and you know what I am. You don't want to deal with this. It gets kind of, it's, that's when things kind of can get really wacky. Typically, like, if there was a weirdest, we do some stuff where we jump paramours, like the like the girlfriend or the boyfriend involved in a divorce. Those are the ones that are kind of crazy. Where you're, you know, they're trying to subpoena a girlfriend, a side girl in a divorce, hitting them, getting them that could often be in their house or their work or whatever that is, those get a little bananas. Yeah,
Nick VinZant 17:53
I could see that, because now you're involved in somebody else's drama, and I bet that person is pissed.
Jon Dalman 18:00
Oh, absolutely. Or, you know, you're an accountant for someone who's doing bank fraud or what? Or you're the accountant for a couple that are divorcing, and one guy's been hiding money on the side, getting ready to leave his wife, and all of a sudden, you're just doing your job, and you get sucked into this whole thing. They're not happy about that. I mean, they're pros. They could do their thing, but it's still just unpleasant.
Nick VinZant 18:28
Do you have somebody that you just can't find? Like I never found that person.
Jon Dalman 18:33
The only reason we don't find someone is because the client will say, Okay, that's enough. I don't want to put any more money into this just by an affidavit of due diligence, and we're gonna make them fight it. So an affidavit of due diligence would be, you take off from Mexico, and I can't get you in Mexico or but we do have people who serve down there, but for whatever reason you're out of touch, we kind of know where you are, but we can't get you. And we're like, okay, yeah, buy John a plane ticket to to Mexico and he'll go serve this. They're like, how much is that going to cost? We tell them. They're like, just, just, right. There's not enough money in the case for that. There's not a deep enough pocket to pay you that money. So we could all make money. So just write an affidavit saying everything you did, where you think he is and what the evidence is to support that, and we'll file it and make their attorney fight that. So as far as not finding one, that doesn't really happen,
Nick VinZant 19:30
yeah, so it's more a financial decision than it is a logistical decision. Absolutely, it's
Jon Dalman 19:35
just resources, biggest length
Nick VinZant 19:37
someone has gone to to hide from you on
Jon Dalman 19:39
the bail side of things, I mean full hiding on their beds, hiding in garbage cans, hiding. I had a guy one time in attic crawl space. He was a little guy, but he actually crawled inside a big toe. Like this big Tupperware thing she store Christmas lights in. It's like that. And was literally in the fetal position, hiding in one of those to avoid jail. And then on the the process service side, people will will take off, leave the country, things like that. People, again, people on that side of the curve that have the money to do so, but just people who will try to jump in their car and run as fast as I can. I've been hit by three cars in four years. You've been hit by
Nick VinZant 20:30
a car three times? Yes, um,
Jon Dalman 20:32
ironically, all luxury cars. I got hit by a BMW x5 I got bit hit by Mercedes s5, 50 and brushed by on a 911 GT, 3r all of them involving very wealthy business guys. Two were involved in being sued by former business partners, and another one was a want, demand for more alimony, whatever it was, like that a family law case,
Nick VinZant 21:04
for some reason I would feel like the more quote, unquote, successful people would have, the harsher reaction to it. You're
Jon Dalman 21:10
absolutely right. And there's an entitlement thing there. I think if you're used to, if you're successful and you have a lot of money and you make things happen, you you're used to getting your way in a lot of things, and there's an entitlement that comes from that. And not wanting to be served is like, I don't want that. You know? I shouldn't have to take that there those guys, if I think about it, if I had to write a list of the people who were the most bananas, it would be on the socioeconomic scale, on the higher end of that,
Nick VinZant 21:44
I could see that right, like, they don't feel like they should have to be doing this. Like, how dare you. Like, I could see that kind of reaction.
Jon Dalman 21:53
And the folks on the lower side, it's just another day under the sun for them. Like, I got served papers because my old car, I got in a wreck, and I rear ended someone, but my phone's also turned off. I'm getting laid off from work. I'm back on this. It's just there's like a just a blindness to the stressors of your life, just to know that this is just one more thing. Have you
Nick VinZant 22:19
ever not serve somebody because of a situation. The only thing like, Oh, they're playing with their kid in their park. I'm not going to do it here. Like, do you ever do that? Or like, No, you got to do it when you got the chance.
Jon Dalman 22:29
I'll do it when I do it. And I, if I see you, I know it's too hard. You only get so many bites at an apple, so if I saw you and your son going to kindergarten for the first day of school. Would I jump you at the door the kindergarten? No, but I would wait till you got back to your car, and I'd be like, hey, got some documents for you. I have served someone at a funeral before, in the parking lot of a funeral, and it had to happen in that case that the statute was coming up like in a day, they were fully avoiding service, dodging. Mom was dodging for it. Was covering for them. Alex did her work, found our defendant, posting on Facebook about her friend who was killed in an auto crash. Alex goes back, pulls police records, finds the friend's name, finds a funeral parlor holding the funeral, and there I'm in the parking lot waiting fire defendant to show up for the funeral. Just got to make it happen. You're like, oh, that's kind of terrible. You served her. But then you read the documents, you're like, Oh, you and your boyfriend were driving drunk and hit a school bus. And so I make there's no sympathy for it to me there, you know? And, yeah, I've tried everything's different. I try not to make a big deal. I'll always say, hey, you know, how can I make this easy for them? What's the best way to make this as flawless and kind of like, non invasive as possible. But then again, if I'm involved, you've kind of waived your right to just opening the door, saying thank you and taking it, because other people have already tried that. And when someone yells at me and they're like, this Thanksgiving Day, how can you do this? I'm like, It's not about November 24 at Thanksgiving dinner. It's more about September and October when you wouldn't open the door for the five other dudes that tried to do this. Is
Nick VinZant 24:33
bounty hunting, like they show on the TV shows. Like, how often does that? Like, I'm kicking in the door running through the
Jon Dalman 24:40
what bounty hunting is really like is, I'll say this, because I'm a I'm technically, I'm a bail bondsman myself, just on paper, and I've worked in that field full time for six years, seven years, and put at least 600 people physics. Into the car, and probably another closed another 1000 cases, on technicalities, on paperwork, found them in other jails, got them to pay their bail bond. Because the thing to remember about Bail Bonds, Bail Bonds is about money. Bail Bonds isn't about justice. You're it's like having a car repoed. The bail bondsman isn't out for justice. The bail bondsman is out to get their money, their surety back, having said that, and as a former bondsman, what bail bonding is really like. And had this discussion with a bondsman one time that kind of ruffled them off a little bit, but I'll tell you, it's it's kind of predatory in a sense, and that the cycle of people going probation, jail, bail, probation, jail, it can be you're working with a pot a marginalized population that doesn't have access to the resources someone with money might have. So I'll start it off like that, that the people that you're unusually fail to appear are kind of on that lower socioeconomic spectrum. So there's that. And the 600 people that we put in jail, I only got to fight like nine of them, and four of those, four or five of those were all at one time, so not that many fights. But I don't scream, I don't yell, I don't degrade people. You see it on TV, it's very spectacular for folks to say, oh man, kick the door, fight 'em, chop on 'em, taze, punch 'em, whatever. That's just not how I would do it. The reality was, hey, I'm here from the bonding company. I've got a failure to appear benchmark for you out of Fulton County, Atlanta. I've got to take you back. It's not an argument. You know, this is going to happen. I'm not looking for feedback on this, but I will treat you with respect. We got to go tonight to the jail. What do you have to do? Do you need to make some phone calls? You have jail shoes. A lot of guys have jail shoes. They already have shoes with no laces in them, because they know they go to jail so often they have grab your hoodie. You know it's cold and booking. That's how bail bonding was for us, and why we walked away knocking wood, relatively scot free. The sensationalism you see, like on most bounty hunting shows, the kicking, the screaming, the fighting, six dudes jumping on a guy who's running on a $1,200 parking ticket that that's TV stuff. And if there are people who operate like that, and I'm sure there are somewhat operating like that. It's just not how we did it, our business model. It was, first of all, it's just myself and my wife, and she's five foot, 405 pounds. We're not going to it's me going through the door by myself. I didn't have a whole stack of dudes behind me, and so our technique was much more of centered around de escalation and respect and nothing personal, strictly business. I know this sucks for you, but I'm not going to make it any worse. It's really probably
Nick VinZant 28:16
the better way to handle it, people and they'll they'll act like people. Yeah, the
Jon Dalman 28:22
world's a big fat mirror. Man, you treat people with respect and you'll get it right back. For the most part, I mean, there was guys. I mean, clearly it's not all unicorns and rainbows out there. There's some dudes who on site, we were going as them. That was just what it was, that's the game. But for the most part, when given the opportunity to communicate with someone they don't want to fight any more than you want to fight. And almost every person we put in a car, we'd be driving them in, and Alex and I in the front seat, they'd be talking. They're like, I'm so glad this is over. Just you're, you're, they're relieved it's over. And especially the way it went down with having some people that would just say, Hey, I'm forcing this situation upon you, but I'm not going to try to make it any worse than this already is on its surface,
Nick VinZant 29:12
longest you've ever had to look for somebody. We've
Jon Dalman 29:15
had some folks who've run for a year, 13 months, and then finally, Intel hits. All of a sudden, new address pops up. You know, you've been going to their mom's house. You've been going to their old work. You go the brothers, you go to grandma's house. They're getting tired of you. I've hit houses so often. They know my name. They're like, Hey, John, how's it going? He's not here. I don't know. I'm like, well, on Facebook, he was here four days ago at your birthday party, you know, or whatever. I don't know where he's at. I don't know. I'm like, he has your grandchild. You don't know where your grandchild lives. I don't know. I don't know. So, okay, no big deal. It's not personal. I get it. But then finally, that Intel breaks filed for you know. Did a new address pops up. Bang, there it is, finally, about 13 months, I think is the longest.
Nick VinZant 30:08
What's, oh, what's the most interesting way you found somebody like, oh, we tricked them, or
Jon Dalman 30:14
catfishing people. Cap, yeah, fully catfishing people a number of ways. You know, the whole setup. Hey, I saw your boat was for sale on Facebook marketplace. Oh, yeah, come on over. Come on over for the boat. Sorry, divorce papers or whatever it is, and the other way is, and it's one of my favorites. It's my wife is very attractive and very good at this. She'll get on the computer, she'll find one of our defendants on a dating site and be like, Oh, saw your pick ha ha tea. And then it goes back and forth, and eventually it's like, yeah, we should get together for coffee sometime. And there he is sitting in a Starbucks, you know, waiting to meet this young woman. And I walk in, I'm like, Nick, hey, I got some documents for you. It hit them with it. We did it in bail all the time, and we done it in process service a couple times. The funniest part of that, though, to me, besides the obvious, like that needle scratch kind of wreck, you know, moment, is the people that we catfished and we were talking to them afterwards, driving them to the jail, they never put it together. They never put together. Like, seriously, like, they not a single one. They would be in the backseat going, I can't believe this. This girl is coming to meet me pretty soon, and Alex would be in the front seat wearing a baseball hat and body armor. And I'd be like, Oh, that's crazy. Sorry to ruin your day, bro. And they're like, Man, this girl was hot too. I can't believe it. I'm like, Oh, that sucks. Maybe you'll be out of jail soon. One guy we had in the back seat, we let him use his phone. He starts calling Alex in the front seat, saying, Hey, man, I'm going to jail for some old warrant stuff I have. It it's, it was, it was bananas. It was absolutely, I couldn't believe it was happening. What
Nick VinZant 32:05
was that like when he calls and she's in the front seat, in the phone? Did he pick did he put it together? No,
Jon Dalman 32:12
never did. Never did. And it happened more than what that was the only time someone called her in the front but literally, every person we catfished in the back seat had the realization of, or did never, never realize it. They were just like, I can't believe this happening today. Of all days I'm supposed to have this girl come over to the house like, oh, man, that sucks. Man, sorry, bro.
Nick VinZant 32:36
Um, that's pretty much the whole thing, man. It's like, I don't know if people want to get a hold of you, if they want to kind of do that stuff, how can they do that? What's the best way?
Jon Dalman 32:46
Best way, if you want to see a little insight into the day to day, my Instagram is unique, underscore skill set, and I don't really post much anymore, but I'll run stories all the time of what we're doing in the field, kind of like a snapshot blog of what we're up to, cases Atlanta, things like that. Our podcast wanted podcast. We actually just got new microphones. We're actually going to start doing it again. I believe we took a break. It was real big for us, but we got so busy, but now we're going to start adding it back in. So that was wanted podcast, and that's on all the normal podcast applications, but wanted podcast is a great way to hear some of these stories in an hour long
Nick VinZant 33:38
version of it. I want to thank John so much for joining us. If you want to connect with him, we have linked to him on our social media sites. We're profoundly pointless on Tiktok, Instagram and YouTube, and we've also included his information in the episode description. And if you want to see more of this interview, the YouTube version will be live on August 29 at 12:30pm Pacific. Okay, now let's bring in John Shaw and get to the pointless part of the show. What seasons clothing do you like best? Like do you like winter clothes, spring clothes, summer clothes, fall clothes? I mean,
John Shull 34:21
I don't mind, like, a good fall outfit, you know, like maybe a good pullover, some blue jeans, some boots, but it's probably a far second to just a t shirt and shorts and sandals.
Nick VinZant 34:36
Yeah, I think it's really hard to beat summer clothing just because it's so minimal, but I would say that my favorite overall clothing look is socks and socks and sneakers, shorts, t shirt and a hoodie, which to me is like early spring, early fall. Yeah. So I would say early spring, early fall, is my favorite seasonal clothing.
John Shull 35:06
Yeah. I mean, I'll go, I'll just go fall for my favorite seasonal clothing. But I like, I'm also one of those people that will wear shorts all year round. Like, I'll go shovel snow in shorts.
Nick VinZant 35:18
The only reason that I wear pants is to avoid other people's looks and questions. Otherwise, I would wear shorts year round with I don't think any difficulty at
John Shull 35:27
all. I'm going to say this with confidence, and that is, obviously, I work in the media. You used to work in the media as well. There's like, I think that's one of the last professions where it's kind of a mandate that you have to wear pants if you're in the office. And when I tore my calf, I couldn't really get into my pants, so I I've just been wearing shorts. And I gotta tell you, it's there's really no need to wear pants during the summer if you work in an office building, like there just isn't. I don't,
Nick VinZant 35:57
yeah, I don't understand how we made the decision that somehow shorts weren't very nice.
John Shull 36:03
They can't, I mean, they can be. I think
Nick VinZant 36:06
that shorts should be more acceptable in an office environment. That would be like my political campaign, is to have shorts become more acceptable in an office environment, all
John Shull 36:16
right. Well, uh, we'll make this nice and easy today. I rehearse this so hopefully I don't screw any of these names up. Okay, Sean Dano, Charlie Murphy, Arthur, pale Ayub aluy, David zedrick Ho Joseph Rivera,
Unknown Speaker 36:37
blew it. I blew it.
Nick VinZant 36:39
I didn't get like five in there though. RV,
John Shull 36:42
Villanueva, Charlie Carter, Wayne, Erasmus, teams, Tim sweet, I'm trying not to but I'm I'm just butchering this. Michael Hurst and John Shaban, appreciate all of you for being the shout outs this week.
Nick VinZant 37:00
Very, very good. At least you've messed up all the easy ones, like Tim,
Unknown Speaker 37:07
right? Tim. Tim
Nick VinZant 37:09
also like to give a special shout out to the people who signed up for our Patreon page. I am not good enough with the Patreon page to know who those people are, but we will give you a special shout out once I figure out if I can see what your name is or not. So but thank you for signing up for our Patreon page. We appreciate the support.
John Shull 37:30
Well done. Uh, all right, well, let's, let's talk about some things that are completely useless but interested me. Uh, how scary as shit would this be? Uh, you're at a Six Flags restaurant or Six Flags Theme Park, and you know that ride that where you sit in the swing and it picks you up and you're like, 200 feet above the ground, and you just swing around.
Nick VinZant 37:53
I'm aware of it. Well, I would never go on it. A
John Shull 37:57
few days ago in Mexico City, at the Mexico City Six Flags, uh, apparently there was some thunderstorms in the area. It's debated. Nobody really knows what caused the ride to malfunction. I think maybe a lightning strike in the area that shut down power. But regardless, the ride stopped with about 50 people suspended 250 feet above ground or in the air as they were just sitting there, dangling in these little seats, I would worry. I don't even like, what do you call it? You you active people to go to the top of a mountain. What are those things called? You get in the cars, cable cars,
Nick VinZant 38:32
a gondola, gondola. I
John Shull 38:35
don't even like getting in gondolas because they swing back and forth. I'm good, like I'm I'm fine staying on the ground.
Nick VinZant 38:42
I generally also want to be within a few feet of the ground. The older I get, the closer to the ground that I want to be. I'm not going on any amusement park rides. I'm certainly not going on amusement park rides that are in countries that I don't think have the best standards, or I might question some of their safety standards, but I was on, I was in Whistler at a ski resort, going mountain biking, and I was on the ski lifts, and that's one of those things that, like, it's perfectly safe, but I'm kind of surprised that all of that still is all like, allowable, like, that's not you're just kind of sitting there, like 4050, feet in the air. Sometimes it's not really anything hold me on, not really like you're perfectly safe, but it's a little bit questionable.
John Shull 39:28
Is there? So I've never been on a ski lift, so excuse my ignorance. But is there like, a lap bar that goes across, like,
Nick VinZant 39:35
yeah, what
John Shull 39:36
if you've Okay, God, I would say, like, what if you've had a few drinks and you just kind of lean forward a little bit. I mean, you're not just going to fall out.
Nick VinZant 39:44
I think a ski lift is the kind of thing that it only takes somebody to be 10% stupid to get injured on. Like you're essentially counting on large numbers of people not being 10% stupid. Just,
John Shull 39:59
oh. Um, but, I mean, you're gonna fall into snow, right? You're gonna fall into a snow bank or dirt. You're not gonna fall like, on concrete or something, right? I
Nick VinZant 40:07
mean, if you fall in thick enough snow, I think that you're gonna be all right. But if, like, you're going mountain biking, like we were, like, No, you're dead. I
John Shull 40:14
also kind of think that that would be one of my worst nightmares. Would be to, and I've just realized this, in talking about this, be going on a ski lift and fall into a deep bank of snow and never be found? That would be absolutely terrifying.
Nick VinZant 40:27
Oh yeah, man, nature's like, don't mess with it. Also
John Shull 40:32
this, this should bring something up now that's been bothering me, but on my one of my social media feeds, I clicked on a story about a guy who got stuck in a cave and died. I don't want to hear it. All right, fair enough. I know you're I know you're into that. So I
Nick VinZant 40:47
can't handle the idea like, Okay, I live in almost downtown, urban Seattle, and I have had three conversations with my children about getting stuck in caves. Don't go into a cave. There's not a cave for 50 miles that terrified. That scares me more than anything else, the idea of being stuck in a cave,
John Shull 41:09
I just, I never have to worry about it. Being a bigger guy. I don't even think I could get into the opening doorways of some of these caves. I just, I don't get I would actually love to hear from someone that does it? Because I, you know, I don't, I don't know what the thrill is to, like, suffocate yourself or move two feet in two hours. Like, I don't get it.
Nick VinZant 41:31
I don't even want to think about that. That is the stuff of nightmares for me, the idea of being, like, trapped in a small I'm not claustrophobic, but just the idea of being in a cave? Nope. I don't care how big that cave is. I don't care if it the cave is the size of the state that I live in. I'm not going in it.
John Shull 41:50
Yeah, I'm. I'm actually kind of right there with you. But once again, I don't have to worry about that, because I'm not the kind of person that would go into caves in the first place. Um, I thought this was interesting, just because it kind of affects most of us. But Apple's going to be releasing their iPhone 16. Like, when is too much? Too much, you know what? I mean, 16 models of basically the same product you got. I know you're still on BlackBerry. So I know this doesn't technically count, but
Nick VinZant 42:24
this is an iPhone six. I have an iPhone six.
John Shull 42:30
I don't. Oh, my an iPhone six. I
Nick VinZant 42:33
think it's actually nine. I think it's actually an iPhone 6s. Could be an iPhone seven. Oh, I'm sorry. It works just like does it take your phone call? Does it connect? To the internet? Does the exact same thing yours? Does fancy pants look. Companies got to make money. They have to make money. And this is my rant about companies. Is that at some point they went from providing us with a service or a product and earning our business to finding ways to rip us off and get in our pockets. And that's what all companies are doing now. They're not servicing us or providing us with a good product. They're not like helping us in any way. They're just trying to find ways to rip us off, and they got to make a new iPhone every couple of months. Kind of
John Shull 43:14
some sad news to report from the restaurant world, Red Lobster, apparently, is on the brink. Yet again, they have less than 500 stores worldwide now, and that kind of makes me sad, but I don't really know why. The only
Nick VinZant 43:27
time I've ever eaten at Red Lobster, I felt nauseous afterwards, like it was good, but it was so much like I don't want but Red Lobster and Olive Garden and all those kind of places because, like, why go there? Because it's, I don't understand the idea of being in the middle of something. Like, either go nice or go cheap. Don't go like average. Like, I want to pay $20 for food that I won't even remember very much. Like, average, to me, is a waste of time. Either have it, good or bad, I
John Shull 44:03
feel like we have to give a quick rip to a WWE wrestling legend, psycho Sid, passed away the other day. Rip, he's infamous for literally snapping his leg in half in a wrestling ring when he worked in the old promotion. WCW, if you've never seen the video and you want to, you should google it, but it'll make you
Nick VinZant 44:24
sick. Uh, is he the guy who slapped the reporter, or is that somebody else who looks kind of like him? Who's the guy that was asked if it was fake and he slapped him? Oh,
John Shull 44:34
yeah, that was, uh, no, that was not him. Uh, God damn. Who was that? Um, what are slabs? I gotta look it up now, and I'm going to kick myself because I should know this.
Nick VinZant 44:46
John Stamos. No, that's not John Stamos Full House, but he looked like psycho Sid.
John Shull 44:53
He did kind of it was a old wrestler named David Schultz. Oh, okay. I believe? Yeah, but anyways, I mean, listen, man, don't, don't come at it. It's still real to them, damn it. It's real, still real to some of us. Let's see. Do you care? Does anyone care that JLo and Ben are getting a divorce? Because that's been all over my feed. Only
Nick VinZant 45:17
thing that I care about is how miserable he looks in all pictures, he looks like a man that's just had it, that has just absolutely had it. And I do like, I don't know them, obviously, but I do like when a celebrity that you kind of secretly feel like JLo was always the I'm from the block and like, No, you're not. You're absolutely not. And I do like it when the chickens come home to roost and a celebrity that you didn't like, all of a sudden, everybody else turns again, and you're like, Yeah, finally, I'm waiting for for people to turn around on Taylor Swift. They're
John Shull 45:53
they're never going to and maybe they shouldn't. Maybe she really is that good, like, maybe she really is a good like person, in addition to, you know, being a great entertainer, uh, that's pretty much it. We'll talk NFL next week, because next week the NFL gets gets kicked off. So bring your predictions, everybody, and you too, Nick. And I want your honest opinion, not some garbage where you just try to gaslight me.
Nick VinZant 46:18
Oh, you mean about who's going to win the NFL season. Yes, oh, okay, I'll give you my predictions.
John Shull 46:24
Yes, well, we'll do we'll do that next week, when, right before the okay game Thursday. Okay, okay. Are
Nick VinZant 46:30
you ready for a top five
John Shull 46:32
I am, em, I'm excited about this one. A lot of choices too.
Nick VinZant 46:35
This is a good one. I like this one. This was suggested by a viewer slash listener, and it is top five celebrities with food names. So they have to have a food name somewhere in their name. This person is not on my list, but I would suggest Sean Bean, the guy who's famous for always getting killed off in movies. He was Ned Stark from Game of Thrones. He was Boromir and Lord of the Rings. That would be like an example of it. But anyway, who's your number five?
John Shull 47:05
So this is a homer pick for me, a personal favorite of mine. Maybe he would make the list anyways. But my number five is meatloaf.
Nick VinZant 47:13
I knew you were going to put meatloaf on there.
John Shull 47:17
I mean, he, I mean he kind of deserves to be on the list. I mean, he is. I don't know if he's a Hall of Famer, but the dude's been around for decades. He's had, like, you know who meatloaf is? Like, you just know it, even if you don't know him, you know who meatloaf is,
Nick VinZant 47:31
but would you know who he was if his name wasn't meatloaf? That's what I thought about meatloaf, is that he either shouldn't be on the list because he's cheating, or he should be number one, because you can make an argument that the only real reason you remember meatloaf's name is because his name is meatloaf,
John Shull 47:50
yeah, but I mean, that's, that's it though, like, that's why you remember him. Is, I don't even know what his real name is anymore, but I know that his name is meatloaf.
Nick VinZant 48:01
But did he have any other song besides? I can do anything for love.
John Shull 48:07
Two out of three. Ain't bad. I mean, that bad out of hell. Bad out of hell too. Both those albums were fantastic. Oh, I
Nick VinZant 48:15
just never really sat down and listened to meatloaf. It's interesting. I would love to know, like an analysis of his career, if being named meatloaf helped or hurt him, like, I'm gonna listen to that guy's name's meatloaf for like, why would I listen to him his name's meatloaf?
John Shull 48:31
I mean, I feel like he came up in a generation where like that was okay, like that that helped him right, like, the Aussies, Boston's, like, all these kind of catchy, simple names, like, you know they like, nowadays, people would probably go meatloaf. I'm not gonna pay $80 to watch this guy sing,
Nick VinZant 48:50
yeah. But no, my number five is Jerry Rice.
John Shull 48:56
Okay? I, I mean, I have him written down, but he didn't make my list.
Nick VinZant 49:01
He's the greatest receiver in NFL history. I mean, he's the most prolific or most productive receiver in NFL history. I would make an argument that the best receiver in NFL history is probably actually Calvin Johnson, another person who the Detroit Lions managed to find a way to ruin their entire life and career.
John Shull 49:17
I mean, I have a great Calvin Johnson story, but we'll save it for another time.
Nick VinZant 49:23
Well, I mean, don't say I have a great Calvin Johnson story and then not tell the story. Well,
John Shull 49:28
hold on, let me I want to say, Why? Why meatloaf? Call meatloaf? It's because his father said he looked like nine pounds of ground chuck and convinced hospital staff to put the name meat on his crib.
Nick VinZant 49:40
Oh, man, that's like both hilarious parenting and terrible parenting.
John Shull 49:46
Sounds like something my father would do. Anyways, my Calvin Johnson story, it was the summer of 2016 I was getting married, and my wife had this idea for us to take dancing lessons and ballroom dance. Lessons, and the couple after us was Calvin Johnson and his fiancee. So him and I, you know, I think we did 12 sessions or 10 sessions, but I would say at least half of those, him and I just sat there, like two dudes, just kind of talking about our wives and how dumb it was that we were there, and how we were wasting money and how it didn't matter. And, you know, and it was, it was, it was cool. I mean, especially being, you know, him, being who he is, and me being a Detroit fan, it was like, you know, the guy's massive, by the way. I mean, I'm no small guy, but I he's, he's six foot six, 250 pounds of just brick shit house. I mean, holy hell. But yeah, that's my Calvin story. Kind of cool.
Nick VinZant 50:41
I don't know. Yeah, that's kind of cool. You're just sitting there talking to Calvin Johnson all the time while you guys are getting ready to get married. Yeah?
John Shull 50:47
I mean, you know, I'm not gonna name the dance studio, but for whatever reason, the dance instructor, we both had his them and me, my wife and I, he really liked to, like do solo stuff with our wives. So, like, he would, at the end of the session, he would, like, spend a little extra time with my wife, and then, and then Calvin's wife would kind of join in and learn a couple of some things. And Calvin, I would just sit there, like, you know, on the floor, and just be like, what are we even doing here? Like, I don't want to do this man how, I
Nick VinZant 51:16
mean, but he couldn't have been moving in on your wife, because you're not going to move in on somebody's wife, especially not going to move in on Calvin Jones, Calvin Johnson's wife. I was
John Shull 51:24
gonna say, if you're moving in on any guy's wife in that situation, it's mine, 1000 times over,
Nick VinZant 51:29
you're not gonna mess with Calvin Johnson's wife. Like, whose wife should I try to pick up this one or that one?
John Shull 51:36
Anyways, my number four. I mean, it's so hard, man, I wrote down probably 30 of these. There's
Nick VinZant 51:41
a lot more than you'd think. Um, my number four
John Shull 51:45
is OJ Simpson.
Nick VinZant 51:46
I wondered if you were gonna put OJ Simpson on there a bold choice, but he is, you'd have to make an argument. He's one of the most he's a very recognizable person, right?
John Shull 51:58
He's, he's kind of like meatloaf, like all you have to do is say OJ, and 98% of the population knows who you're talking about.
Nick VinZant 52:07
Yeah. Oh, he's dead. Now, isn't he? He died. He did die. He did die. Yeah. Rip. My number four is somebody that you might not necessarily think about, but Halle Berry,
John Shull 52:20
it's funny, I had her and Chuck Berry on my honorable mention.
Nick VinZant 52:24
I guess if you're going to go with Halle Berry, you also have to include anybody else with the name Barry, but she's no. Chuck Berry might actually be more famous and influential than she is.
John Shull 52:36
I mean, probably more influential, maybe just in terms of the musicianship. But, I mean, she's done a lot for entertainment, and in some of her, you know, nonprofits and stuff, it's hard. That's hard to say, okay, who's
Nick VinZant 52:51
your number three man? So
John Shull 52:53
this, this is where it gets so tough. So I'm going to go with another Homer pick here. I know I said number five was going to be my only one, but my number three is going to be John Candy.
Nick VinZant 53:05
I have John Candy at number two. I think that he should have been higher on your list.
John Shull 53:10
I don't know. I mean, I'm pretty happy with my list. Yeah. Who? Who's your number three. Then
Nick VinZant 53:19
my number three is Steph Curry. Okay, my
John Shull 53:22
number two is Kevin Bacon.
Unknown Speaker 53:27
Oh,
Nick VinZant 53:29
well, that's, I wonder who you've got. Who are you going to put it number one, if you have who I I don't know. I have a really hard time with where you have put Kevin Bacon and John Candy, because I think not only are those very famous people, but you don't have to have any kind of a stretch to see how their name relates to food. And I evaluated it based on basically, like the influence of the celebrity, the name and the importance of the name. So like, John Candy was a huge celebrity. It's candy, which is great. And so, like, those two things go together. So I had Steph Curry three. John Candy for me is number two. I think John Candy should be number two, and my number one is Kevin Bacon. I don't think that you get a better food based name than Kevin Bacon.
John Shull 54:29
I mean, it's, it's good. I mean, my number one is, is it's just a name of a celebrity who has a food named after them, or herbs are named after a food that I just it's just phenomenal. You know, synonymous, synonymous, synonymous with with celebrities in food names, and that is my number one, Vanilla Ice.
Nick VinZant 54:55
You could make an argument that Vanilla Ice is the only person with two food. Names, because it's vanilla and it's ice. I mean, you could, like, okay, ice, maybe not, but yeah, I could, I could, okay, I don't agree, but I could see your argument. Okay, I don't know, but what's his real name? Isn't his real name? Something crazy. No,
John Shull 55:26
I was like Robert something. I think. What is Vanilla Ice?
Nick VinZant 55:31
Let's see Vanilla Ice's real name. It's something like Robert durstfeld,
John Shull 55:36
Vanilla Ice. His real name is.
Nick VinZant 55:40
Why you are looking that up? We have some suggestions for people. Ty Cobb, famous baseball player, Jimmy Buffett. But Jimmy Buffett is more kind of that's more a type of restaurant like that's kind of there and CD lamb. Football player, CD lamb,
John Shull 55:59
yeah, for sure. So his name's Robert Van Winkle,
Nick VinZant 56:06
yeah, and this, and then what's you going to change your name to Vanilla Ice, like, oh yeah, from like, the dorkiest to, like, that's cool.
John Shull 56:13
I mean, it's legit, man. All right, you I wrote down a lot, so okay,
Nick VinZant 56:20
you just start, you start going, and I'll just interject with ones that I have, because there's a ton. Let's see Alec Guinness, yeah, original. Obi Wan Kenobi in Star Wars. I believe.
John Shull 56:32
Brie, Larson, sugar, Ray Leonard, yeah. Daryl, strawberry, yeah. Condoleezza Rice, yeah, that's a good one too. Uh, Rosemary Clooney, oh, I
Nick VinZant 56:47
don't know who that is, though that's an old, tiny actress.
John Shull 56:49
It's George's mother, but yes, um, corn, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, salt and pepper. Oh, yeah. John ham
Nick VinZant 57:00
Yeah, I thought that for a second. I thought you were going to put John Hamm as your number one. I was going to get pissed.
John Shull 57:06
No, he doesn't deserve that. And then let's see, I had Steph Curry on my revenge and, Oh, I almost put him on the list, but I didn't, because I think he's creepy. Maybe he isn't Carrot Top. Oh,
Nick VinZant 57:22
yeah, yeah. Both of those are, those are both correct assumptions. Like, yeah, he might be. The only ones that I had that you didn't have was Fiona Apple singer,
John Shull 57:35
I get Okay, so all of the 90s alternative fans out there are gonna hate me. I get her mixed up with Alanis Morissette all the time. She's
Nick VinZant 57:44
like the slightly, maybe artistically more talented like I think that her albums and things like that, they get, they come out to more acclaim, but I think she's also less popular version of Alanis Morissette, so I could see it. There's a long, a long way I'm seeing if there's anybody else. Oh, not. Let's see. I'm checking really quick. Give me a second. Alyssa Milano, Milano, crackers or cookies, or whatever they want to be called. We had Halle Berry, Heather Graham. I don't really feel like Graham cow. It's like, that's too That, to me, would be an example. What happened to Heather Graham, by the way, she disappeared completely.
John Shull 58:36
She going, yeah, she's, I mean, she's like, kind of what we're talking about the other day, or the other episode with nev Campbell, Jennifer Love Hewitt, like they're just gone,
Nick VinZant 58:46
just you don't hear anything about some people anymore. There's a lot of ones named after cheese that I don't feel like that crowns damn strawberry is a good one. If
John Shull 58:58
I were to tell you that Heather Graham is 54, years old. She has not seen 54
Nick VinZant 59:03
she has not seen 54 but at the same time, you also only remember them as like from their prime, not what they necessarily are right now. Uh, there's somebody named peaches geldorf people. I've never heard of Cherry Jones. Oh, you got Carrot Top. Carrot Top is Jack Oh, Ginger Rogers, if this was 40 years ago, she would probably be way up there. I think she was a famous, super famous actor, actress, yeah, she
John Shull 59:31
was, for sure.
Nick VinZant 59:32
I don't know who. Some of these people never heard of him before at all. There's a lot of curries. There's a lot of rices. Uh, okay. Well, that's it for this episode. That's all I got. Do you have anything else, anything smart to say?
John Shull 59:47
No, bring your NFL predictions. Everybody out there. We're expecting a big crowd next week.
Nick VinZant 59:52
All right, NFL prediction time. We're gonna drop
John Shull 59:55
we might as do college football, at least something with college football too.
Nick VinZant 59:58
Let's do this. Two you do lots of research, you make thoughtful picks on what you think that is going to be correct. I'm going to do absolutely nothing. Not even going to look up like who's good, who's bad, anything like that. And at the end of the season, let's see which one of us is more correct. Okay,
John Shull 1:00:17
I'll tell you what. And if anyone's out there is watching this, well, you might as well do it as well. Maybe we'll send you a t shirt. I
Nick VinZant 1:00:24
don't know we still have t shirts. Check out our Patreon page if I ever find a link to it that I forgot about someday, someday. Okay, that's gonna go ahead and do it for this episode of profoundly pointless. I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, leave us a quick review. We really appreciate it really helps us out and let us know what you think are some of the best celebrity food names. I get Vanilla Ice. I get it, but I still think that Kevin Bacon is really the dominant food name, also we've put a link to our Patreon page in the episode description. Really appreciate the support. Thanks.