Bellydancing is more than just a dance. It’s an art form that is both sacred and scandalous. Award-winning Bellydancer Valerick Molinary has performed all over the world. We talk Bellydancing basics, the stigma of seduction and more. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Georges.

Valerick Molinary: 01:43

Pointless: 35:37

Top 5: 54:57

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http://www.valerickmolinary.com (Valerick’s Website)

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https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063834995015 (Valerick’s Facebook)

http://www.bellydancestories.com (Belly Dance Stories Website)

https://www.instagram.com/bellydance_stories (Bellydance Stories Instagram)

Interview with Bellydancer Valerick Molinary

Nick VinZant 0:12

Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, belly dancing, and George's

Valerick Molinary 0:20

there's a lot of stigma about the dance. There's this idea that it's a seduction, dance the relationship between culture and religion. And then dancing can get a little messy. Sometimes in Arabic music, there's something called Terra, which is like the dance produce the music produce this type of like ecstasy is experience. And that's part of the magic of it, and that slowly, graceful movements, even though they look very easy, they're not.

Nick VinZant 0:56

I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, we really appreciate it, it really helps out the show. If you're a new listener, welcome. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for all of the support. So our first guest is an award winning belly dancer who has performed all over the world. What's really interesting, I think about this, though, is not just the history of the dance or how you do it, but the culture that surrounds it, because it is both sought after and stigmatized at the same time. This is belly dancer, Valerie Molinari. So his belly dancing, is it fundamentally different than other kinds of dancing?

Valerick Molinary 1:47

There's a lot of things that makes it very particular and unique, starting by the history of the name and the label of bellydancing. Okay, so the name, the title, the word bellydancing, is a colonial term that doesn't necessarily translate or refers to a specific geographic region where this dance coming from comes from. So when you say belly dance people, specially in the western, social imaginary and right in the West here, in America, we kind of like don't have a clearer perspective of where's this dancing coming from? Okay, compare to ballet, and other Western disciplines that were more popular. In ballet, there's more use of the extensions of the body, right arms legs. The French call it belly dancing, because they started invading the North of Africa, they started seeing awasi and Gypsies dancers. And they noticed that there was a lot of focus in the middle part of the body, which in ballet, that's totally forbidden, right? Because in ballet, you dance with a very rigid torso. So that's how they call it belly dancing, because for them for the colonizers, they could see this constant movie of the belly. And that's something that we have that is very particular and unique, compared to other styles of dancing is a focus on the movement in the middle part of the body, between the hips, and the belly area,

Nick VinZant 3:28

the name belly dancing, then does that irritate people who had

Valerick Molinary 3:33

question? For some people, especially for Middle Eastern people can be a term that they don't necessarily like it because it really doesn't bring any type of visibility to them or their culture, or in this case, their dance. And for other people, they're just like, okay, you know, this is part of like, the history it is what it is, but honestly, for marketing purposes is very difficult. Because if I use FRAC Sharky, which would be like a correct Arabic term, people have no idea what I'm referring to.

Nick VinZant 4:12

It's become so pervasive that you can't get around it.

Valerick Molinary 4:15

Exactly. So now what I do is I use it. And once people come to my class, or people asked me, let's say in a platform like a podcast like this about the term, then I use it as a more gray moment to kind of like educate people about it.

Nick VinZant 4:30

You mentioned it very briefly, but what's the traditional name of it? Where does it originate from?

Valerick Molinary 4:35

Mostly, let's say in the Arab world, the term will be racks which mean that's our Charkie which means that's from the east. Okay? And when we talk about dance from the east, we're talking more about the style of dance that it's a little bit more theatrical. Then we have the term racks Baladi, that racks means dance, that LSD means from the people or belonging to a certain area, that it's what we term, the term that we use to describe more casual and social dancing. Meaning that if I go to an Arabic party, and they have Arabic music playing, and I see people gathering and dancing for each other, they're just doing Rex vanity, meaning using this beautiful hip work in a very social context. When I do production, Sharky means when I do it all by myself in a more theatrical way with a two piece costume and the way Hollywood has kind of like frame it and make it more popular for us.

Nick VinZant 5:41

When I think about other styles of dance that I know, right, that all seem to be more focused on the whole body or the extremities, big kind of movements. Why is his belly dancing different than that?

Valerick Molinary 5:55

Well, there's more focus in the middle part of the body. And if you really pay attention to many folklore, dancers dances in a global scale, even me that I come from the Caribbean, you know that there's a lot of folklore dances that include hip work, Polynesian dance, salsa, Afro Brazilian, you name it, there's a lot of folklore dances, that includes really nice torso and, and hip work. But they haven't become I want to say so commercialise. As the way we see belly. And so we tend to identify only belly there's with hip work, but let's say pull dimension. There's, it's the use a lot of in fact, very similar hip work.

Nick VinZant 6:52

Is it harder than other kinds of dancing? In

Valerick Molinary 6:55

a way? Yes. It's a very different idea of moving also, for me that I come from Puerto Rico, like social dance, it's a partner's dance. And I feel these dance even though in a casual context, yes, you can be dancing, but it's all about you. It's a solo type of performance. It's more difficult in that sense, because you're generating everything. You're generating the musicality, when you're dancing with a partner. There's this constant communication of information, right, the partner is telling you to turn, whatever. So there's this constant information happening from body to body. For me, when I do belly dance all by myself, it's all about me. It's my body guiding that energy. And connecting to the audience. Yes, there's, there's gonna be communication between the audience and the dancer. But it's totally different. When you are a solo dancer, a soloist that you're dancing completely by

Nick VinZant 8:02

yourself, it seems very flowy

Valerick Molinary 8:05

it is. And that's part of the magic of it. And that slowly, graceful movements, even though they look very easy. They're not requires a lot of control, because you want the movement to be flowing. But you don't want it to look like it's lacking energy. So we use your muscles in a certain way to create those undulations and those movements, circular, very flowy. But at the same time that you see it and you're like, kind of like immediately drawn or kind of like hypnotized.

Nick VinZant 8:42

So you know, the thing that I always see in like the media necessarily, right, like TVs and movies, it's one belly dancer up on a stage. Is that kind of like the traditional way that it's done?

Valerick Molinary 8:53

Yes, since the 1920s. There was this lady in Cairo. She opened a casino obrera because she wanted it to present to Western audience that were in Cairo right now at the moment. Our show that it was similar to the Moulin Rouge, so she what she did was like, Okay, I'm gonna take certain indigenous dancing or dances, right? But I'm gonna have to refine them. I'm gonna have to sanitize them, to bring them to the stage so they can actually be related to Western audience. And also, our local native audience can also enjoy it. So she started integrating the veil, she started integrating the two piece costume, which she literally took it from the Moulin Rouge in Paris. So that idea of the two piece costume is something that we got from burlesque. It was not the authentic costume that you will see let's say there was a dancers or bedwin Dancers wearing Is it

Nick VinZant 10:00

a though in those cultures though, where it seems to be practiced the most is there a kind of irritation, I guess that like, to me, at least what seems like the bastardized version of it is now the thing that everybody knows?

Valerick Molinary 10:16

Well, there's a lot of stigma about the dance in the Middle East. Even though it's a folklore, dance is not well seen. Generally,

Nick VinZant 10:28

I'm not going to choose the right words for this necessarily, but I think of that culture as being much more kind of religious and more cover up women. And then belly dance seems like a very sexualized dance like, those two things don't seem like they go together very

Valerick Molinary 10:45

well. So it's been a problem, because I feel the dance has been very sexualized. But I think it has to do a lot with the way in general in a global scale, we tend to also sexualized women in entertainment businesses, like it's very common this type of practice. And definitely the the relationship between culture and religion. And then dancing can get a little messy sometimes. And on the other half, I also have to say that these days also, in historical practice, it has been related to sex work. So in the social imaginary, there's this idea that the dancer, it's still kind of like some type of sex worker. But it's really interesting, also this dynamic, because, for example, in the Middle East is an example that they use a lot. It's like, they will want a dancer for the wedding. You know, they will go crazy for the dancer, everybody loves the dancer, as long as she can marry any member of the family. I, for me, it's easy and more accepted. Let's say if I would decide to go to Egypt and become a dancer, for me to do it, then for an Egyptian woman to do it herself. She has to confront other challenges that I don't have to confront. Because I'm an outsider of the of the culture. I go there, I dance and like, they're like, oh, yeah, you know, she said, answer. But, you know, she's American, you know, it's, you know, I don't get that. So harsh judge, they would see me as an artist, but it's different. When an Egyptian woman that society has other type of expectations from her. When she decides to dance, it's she has to comfort her family. Rarely members of her family would not like it, probably, you know, it's it could be even difficult for them to find a place where to live. Because there's a stigma, also the dancer. So those are some of the situations and challenges that these dance has. It's it's interesting, because I just recently came from Egypt. And Egypt we consider kind of like a mecca of the dance like the dancer la dance is very present in the nightlife. Meaning that you go out and you see men and women, belly dancing in nightclubs, cabaret and everywhere. There's a belly dancer everywhere. But still, when you talk to the dancers, you realize that they are, you're constantly going through the struggle and dealing with this thickness

Nick VinZant 13:48

for you know, for for dancers, then that are from that part of the world that you know, is that a big struggle with them? We're like, I like to do this thing. But in my society, even though it's adored, it's also discriminated again.

Valerick Molinary 14:04

Yes, yes. And also, I will say, Nick, there's not too many differences between the stigmas that I also have to come from here in the West, that what they have to confront. So that's why I have a lot of, and I think that's in the beginning, probably I didn't notice or didn't know. That's why I felt so so attracted for Arab woman dancing, because I noticed that they dance differently. Like I noticed that they danced with a different type of power and passion. You know, when I say to people in America that I'm a belly dancer, yes, it's easier for me a question that I always get a lot that I know in the moment people ask me this is that they have no idea what type of work I do. When they asked me do you do passion or it's parties? Is that

Nick VinZant 14:53

from the like, I'll say this, right? Like whenever I see it in movies, there's always the implication that Right, the belly dancer is going to perform and then maybe she's going to do something else afterwards. Yes,

Valerick Molinary 15:04

there's this idea that is a seduction dance. That is a dance to. That's the main idea. Everybody like, the dancer comes, especially in films, she's coming to seduce to distract somebody very faithful, because she's trying to obtain something. Okay. So yeah, there's this expectation, with I feel, in general with exotic dance that if a woman is doing some type of sensual dance right there, there's going to have, there's going to be an after performance that we don't get to see, right? Or it's leading to that place. So people can be more religious, and they can be like, hey, you know what, I'm not gonna even rent you this apartment, because I don't want a belly dancer to be leaving in my property. But But yeah, there's, there's this huge stigma about a dancer, that it's very common. Where you can have the dancer entertaining, basically, the most important events of your life, like birthday parties, like she's the life of the party. But then if, if a member of the family decides to record a video of them belly dancing on teeth, or whatever, that that can be a big deal.

Nick VinZant 16:17

It almost sounds like in the United States, kind of like like a stripper.

Valerick Molinary 16:21

Yeah, yes, it is consumed, it's in certain context. And that's the thing also, like, where is the dad presented, the context will tell you a lot on how it's people consuming this. So for example, if I'm dancing in a wedding, where I'm calming, and the responsibility of the dancer in the wedding, is to kind of like symbolize that type of sensual energy. And like, you're there to kind of like, celebrate love, but symbolically, you are kind of like a representation of Venus, you know, and that the the dancer calm that she says it with the bride and the room, and it's like, this beautiful energy and atmosphere, and everybody's dancing perfectly with it as her everybody's enjoying the performance, then you can also go to the cat barrette, which the camera is a more private context. It's a place where you cannot record it's a place for people who can can go like really wild, they're very fun. You know, people can have all type of, you know, farm get on this day shaky, get crazy, even religious people. But in that type of venue, there are sex workers, there could be some dancers, that could also be sex workers. So you know, that's a place where if I immerse myself there, I know people are going to be consuming my dad's kind of like some type of soft.

Nick VinZant 18:08

Last question kind of in this regard, right? But then how come belly dancing got viewed like that? Where I don't look at other types of dancing like that? It seems to be only specifically belly dancing.

Valerick Molinary 18:19

Yeah. And that you're correct about that. Many people will say to you that this is like the story of colonization, that since the beginning since the 1001 Nights, there's the West has this idea of portraying the Arab world as a place full of sensuality, and made them very, you know, exotic, and there's a movement on artistic movement called Orientalism at the ending of the 19th centuries, where they started to paint and even photograph some of these women in the Turkish bath, but sexualizing them and I think that stereotype of like, like you say, that is such an accurate observation, like, you don't see ballet dancers the same way that you see a belly dancer at all right? But I think the West has been very obsessed with portraying these types of dances, seduction dance, because it's new. It makes sense. And the fact that many of the movements were very focused in the area of the pelvis, I think we immediately want to like super sexualized them.

Nick VinZant 19:45

Welcome in. i What got you into it. What drew you to it?

Valerick Molinary 19:49

Well, I was I was in doing ballet, jazz and acrobatics. When I was very young. I started when I was eight years old. By that time that I was 13. I was in a dance camp, and they offer belly dance class. And my body was changing there at that time that I was becoming a teenager. And puberty was like, really not like, nice to me.

Nick VinZant 20:18

It's a tough time for a lot of tough.

Valerick Molinary 20:21

Yeah. Tough time. And I love the class. Because then at the time, I was getting, you know, I was growing, I did not have the skinny body for ballet, or for jazz. So I was developing a lot of body issues. And then suddenly, I took billions. And I was like, Oh my God, you know, this is a dance where it's all about the curves. This is like difficult, it's new. It looks good on my body. I feel like I can do it. And like it was it was it was the best hobby that I could ask life to have it when I was a teenager.

Nick VinZant 21:07

The correct me if I'm wrong here right now. Have you won international awards are performed internationally are Philip kind of fill in the resume?

Valerick Molinary 21:15

Yes, I did. I competed for four years. My first competition I wanted to tell said nine was the Miami Bellydance Convention, which was an event here. That's how I actually finished in Miami because I won that competition and they offered me a job here. Then I did another one here in Miami called Rockstar that I got second place and people show it somewhere. Then I did another one called queen of rec Sharkey in Texas that had a full the judges were all Egyptian. And then 2014 or 13. I do now group festival that that was an art competition that I did in a festival in Egypt in Cairo. And I got the first place professional category.

Nick VinZant 22:04

That must have been a really big deal. Oh, feel like that would be a big deal.

Valerick Molinary 22:09

Yeah, no, that was like to be able to measure myself in that scale. It was very majestic, beautiful and empowering and difficult at the same time.

Nick VinZant 22:26

How is the kind of atmosphere in terms of like how much people like it different over there than it is in the United States?

Valerick Molinary 22:34

First of all, it's part of their culture. So everybody dances like naturally and even men. This is something that people have this idea of constantly framing this dance as only for women. But it's incredible. When you go there in the nightlife and you see the amount of guys doing hip work.

Nick VinZant 22:52

Like what would you compare it to there that something that you would compare it to here, okay?

Valerick Molinary 22:58

The audiences are looking for different things. Here in the West, they're looking for entertainment. So I have to bring swords, I have to really candle Dre, I have to give them more elements of showmanship. Okay. They're they're just looking for an answer that it's more connected to the music,

Nick VinZant 23:20

a shell versus a performer.

Valerick Molinary 23:22

Exactly. Yeah. So they're the dancer. It's really connecting with the music, the musicians and the audience. She's kind of like, in Arabic music, there's something called Terra, which is like the dance. The music produced this type of like ecstasies experience. And in terrible music, the music tends to repeat a lot. So it kind of like takes you to that moment, you know, when you like that song a lot. And you put it and you put it and every time you put it, it sounds better, better, better, better. Some of the musical structures over the songs in the Arab world are meant like that to take up the audience into that tap experience to the ecstasy says three years, we'll do it just like in this enjoying music into a different level. And the dancer has to amplify that experience. The dancer, it's kind of like being a visual representation of that. And here in the West, we don't have that type of communication with the audience.

Nick VinZant 24:23

It seems like Western dancing is more paint by numbers, right? Like you're doing specific movements. Like there's an instructional seat. mm sheet for it. Exactly. And that kind of music is more like just flowing with it.

Valerick Molinary 24:36

Exactly. It's drastically different.

Nick VinZant 24:40

Are there certain kinds of traditional movements to it like,

Valerick Molinary 24:43

yeah, for sure steps are going to be very basic. What makes it different is actually the dancer each dancer, their goal is to create their own style, and that's what people will like about you. That's why people will enjoy to see one Our of our show of yours because you will get you move in a very particular way. And that means that you your musicality, it's very particular the way that you hear the music is very particular. The way you execute the movement are very particular. But we're basically sharing the same set of steps. But they can be done in drastically different ways. And the shape and the body of the dancer can make the also the movement look totally different.

Nick VinZant 25:30

Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted? Question? Yes. Best place to perform

Valerick Molinary 25:37

that the classroom the dance classroom?

Nick VinZant 25:41

Is there a country though?

Valerick Molinary 25:43

Oh, you want me play culturally? Okay, I country, a country a country, best place to perform? I'll have like, God, this is so difficult. I have to pick three Puerto Rico because of course I'm very attached to my land, like the few times that I get to have performing opportunities there. Like I really, like I'm back home. Second one, I have to say Egypt. For sure. Egypt. Yeah, that's it. I say Brother regarding Egypt.

Nick VinZant 26:18

Who's the best celebrity belly dancer.

Valerick Molinary 26:20

Ah, oh, there's a lot of them. There's, well, one of my favorites. It's Fifi Abdu, which was a very famous dancer in the 80s and 90s. She has super strong personality. She became also like a TV personality. And she's already older, but she looks super good. And she put videos of her dancing the entire time. In her Instagram. The entire time she's always putting videos of her dancing, so I love her what she represents. I love that. She eats profanity like, easy her 60s And like she just make herself super glamorous and dance with so much confidence. And you can tell she loves her body. So I want to say Fie, fie, fie. Fie. Fie is my favorite belly dance personality.

Nick VinZant 27:25

The one I always think of is Shakira.

Valerick Molinary 27:27

Oh Shaq, Kira, chalky, has Lebanese background. But Shakira, what she does is a lot of like, we couldn't like isolating movements and accents. I haven't seen a performance of her what I say okay, you know, she's really, really, really belly dancing. Like, what'd she do with the robe and everything? It's still too westernized for me.

Nick VinZant 27:58

It's, it's got it's like derived from it exactly why

Valerick Molinary 28:02

I can't tell the jazz teacher was there telling her all work here. And then we'll combine it with this. And that's it.

Nick VinZant 28:12

Who is there somebody that's like I always use Michael Jordan. Is there somebody that would be like, Oh, that's the best Jelly Belly Dancer of all time.

Valerick Molinary 28:19

Right now in Egypt. I like a dancer a lot that is called Oksana. And Oksana is a Russian dancer that has incredible flexibility and she can do things with her body that have never seen anybody doing. I like a Brazilian dancer a lot called Sariah. Yet, that for me, she was one of the best entertainers of all time, she will finish her. Her show playing that our Buka and like she would do all type of variety of folklore dancers dances, like you will see her show and it was like, show, show all her all her and she's like 411 She's super small. And she's this giant heels. So I like her a lot. Her hip work is ridiculous. She's Brazilian, also. So she incorporates some of Brazilian dancing in her belly dancing. And it looks so good. And yeah, I want to say like those two are basically some of my favorite dancers nowadays that I like other words,

Nick VinZant 29:33

does belly dancing, expose or cover up a bad dancer? Like if you're a bad dancer? Does belly dancing really showcase that or can you be like, Oh, you can kind of hide it a little bit with this.

Valerick Molinary 29:47

Not really if you're a bad dancer, you know and also what represents to be a bad dancer. I think that there's certain things that are different, difficult to kind of like cut verb with values, for example, the musicality of a person. If you're a person that doesn't have musicality, this is the type of dance that will definitely highlight it.

Nick VinZant 30:13

That makes sense. Now, are you a good dancer and other things? Yes. Our most but our most good belly dancers, probably good dancers and other things not

Valerick Molinary 30:21

I mean, I think it's good to like, explore other than styles. But for me, I had a training before get into belly dance, like I used to do ballet, jazz, modern dance, so I'm okay.

Nick VinZant 30:39

Best belly dancing scene in a movie, or a TV show.

Valerick Molinary 30:49

My Favorite Dancer is from an Indian movie. I don't remember the name, but it's Nadia Jamal, if I'm mistaking it's from the 1970s 80s poem, read GRE from GRE. But yeah, it's a very iconic that scene where she's dancing on the stage. And like, there's a thing, these investigators that arrive and she's dancing, and they're like, totally mesmerized by her dancing, and there's a little bit of comedy involved. But and yeah, and she's one of my favorite dancers. Also nadie Jamal. She was a famous Egyptian dancer, she moved to Lebanon did her career in Lebanon, and was one of the first dancers that came here to the US, from the Middle East to train dancers in the 90s. And yeah, she has that iconic, that scene, and she asked me the kinas Flora work there.

Nick VinZant 31:55

What tip would you give to somebody just starting out? Tip you would give to somebody that's like, Ah, I'm struggling with this aspect of it. Like, I just can't get this down.

Valerick Molinary 32:05

For somebody that is starting out. Okay? Be patient. It takes time, and enjoy the journey. Okay, because people take the first classes and they find that that is very difficult it is oh my god. Yeah, like everything, it takes time. You know, you just have to like, go later by later, find a really good teacher with good credentials. This is very important. Now, because somebody is a Zumba teacher doesn't mean that they have the preparation to teach this dance with the cultural sensibility that it requires us to teach us something correct and authentic. And for people that are struggling with their challenges in today's it could be something technical, it could be like starting improvisation. Give it a time, give it a time. Be very have compassion with yourself. And understand also that discipline is not necessarily like this, they simply can't be like this. So as long as you can keep those commitments, it's okay. It's then suddenly you take a month that you couldn't make it to class, or you could have practiced this. Okay, and then next month is coming and you're gonna continue at so try to be as close system as you can. I will say that that will be my main advice.

Nick VinZant 33:31

That's pretty much all the questions that I had. Is there anything that you think we missed or what's kind of not next for you? Well, I

Valerick Molinary 33:38

have lots of future projects. I am organizing the first Miami Bellydance retreat in Miami, happening August 24, to the 28th. And we're combining Bellydance with other wellness alternatives. So that's something that I think is going to be majestic next year. And I have a theatrical production, also called Bellydance stories with Alexandra Molina, which is another dancer here from Miami, where we actually we combine creative writing and dancing. And in this production, the dancers, which are some of our students and people from our community. Tell a little bit about their story, what their dancing and what their performance represents. And then they perform it so we we did the the the first show this year, in August, I think we did it and it was very majestic because we have we have pieces in the show talking about fatphobia depression, body positivity. You name it, and all these ladies basically talk about how the Belizeans journey how to them. That's good with all those challenges. So yeah, basically my platform is just to continue helping women and empowering them to dance and rebellious and. And that's it. That's what makes me very happy.