You’re mood, how you sleep, the things you buy, even who you’re attracted to. Color influences nearly every aspect of our lives and Color Expert Kate Smith knows color. We talk Color Psychology and Color Theory, how brands use color to get you to spend, designing NFL uniforms, picking the right color for any situation and why the news of today influences the colors of tomorrow (Color Forecasting). Then, we countdown the Top 5 Colors.

Kate Smith: 01:46ish

Pointless: 42:26ish

Top 5: 01:06:31

https://www.sensationalcolor.com (Kate Smith’s Website - Sensational Color)

Interview with Kate Smith: Color Expert, Sensational Color

Nick VinZant 0:10

Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, callers,

Kate Smith 0:18

it does go unnoticed. But it turns out that the effects of color are really both powerful and far reaching. We've long believed that we all saw the same colors. But more recent studies show each develop similar, not yet not exactly the same color vision. And the individual experiences shape our understanding of color. When you look at a new product, or when any consumer looks at a product, they tend to make a decision about that product in 90 seconds or less. And the single most crucial component in that decision is color. Color accounts for roughly, I think about 90% of the initial judgment,

Nick VinZant 0:57

I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or a review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. So our first guest is an expert in colors, why we like certain colors, the psychological effect they can have on us how brands use colors, to try and get us to buy more stuff. And even how the things that are happening today will determine what colors we like, years from now. It's a fascinating, fascinating in look at just how big of an impact colors have on our lives. This is color expert, Kate Smith. So like How aware are we have the impact of color in our lives? Is this something that we think about? Or do we just kind of just go unnoticed basically, for us? Well,

Kate Smith 1:57

it does go unnoticed. But it turns out that the effects of color are really both powerful and far reaching. And there's many aspects of our lives, you know, the colors that are affected by color that we don't even like you said that we don't notice, or we don't know about

Nick VinZant 2:13

where would you say like, oh, this is always going this is where color has a big impact on you

Kate Smith 2:18

probably for areas that I often will give examples of so let me give you one University of Rochester does a lot of studies. And they've studied the color red pretty extensively in particular. And they have a study that's demonstrated that men are more physically attracted to women wearing the color red, so red, red dress, red lipstick, but they're not aware of it. Most men are not aware of it. But studies have shown that they're more likely to ask the woman on a date spend more money. But the thing is, it's not just men, the same is true for women. So a later study that they did determine that women are just as much influenced by reading are more likely to find men attractive, who wear red, one of the other places where color tremendously affects us is with food and eating. And so we have a very strong relationship between what we see in our perception of how good something is. And we can even use certain types of plates and settings to enhance our perception of what we think of food is going to taste like or what the quality is, whether it's true or not. And it goes into things like they study things like orange juice, the flavored, it could be exactly the same. But if they change the lighting to make the juice look more or less a yellow than bright orange, people don't think it's as good. So it's our signals from our brain about color. Just have a tremendous impact on how we react every single day to things that are just part of our every day. Just aren't like just how we live. The travel lodge in the UK did a fun study on can the color of your bedroom impact the amount of sleep and the quality of sleep? And it turns out yes, it can. That they found that walls blue walls, which so many people have blue in their bedroom are the best promoters of red rest, followed by Green and I think was yellow. And that the worst are rooms that are gray, beige, brown or purple.

Nick VinZant 4:27

So is that because of some way that our brain is fundamentally wired in this way? Or is that just our personal preferences?

Kate Smith 4:36

It's it's both and here's how that here's how that works is there's two people call it kind of color psychology but I divided into three sort of areas that and what is the actual effect that color has on our brain regardless of whether we're aware, it doesn't matter our age, our sex where we're from in the world, nothing. There's just a An impact that color has on us. There's other things that are impacted by where we're from the culture that we grew up in. And what we're used to see, you know, what our associations with colors are. So things like one that most people know, we think of a wedding dress, people would say, white, although even in the US, that's somewhat changing. But if you said that in an Asian country, they would say the most typical is red. So those are kind of associations that we make just based on, where we've grown up, and what we've known throughout our life, but the most impactful, maybe our personal color associations. So we've long believed that we all saw the same colors, but more recent studies show that is a response to our outside world, we each developed similar, not yet not exactly the same color vision, and the individual experience shape our understanding of color. So it's kind of like a chameleon, so it can trick us and change our perception. But it's based on what our brain recognizes as our past experience.

Nick VinZant 6:10

So what I see is red might not be what you see is red.

Kate Smith 6:14

Red is a great example, Nick, because women actually perceive red, more variations in red than men do.

Nick VinZant 6:22

Are we talking about small differences? In the sense that like, I see blue, you see light blue? Or are we talking about I see blue? You see green?

Kate Smith 6:33

Yeah, it's it's a great question. And it's both in fact, we do if you say it's a blue shirt, and I'll say, yeah, it's a blue shirt, we can agree on that. But in general, we would see the same general color. Part of that's based on our language, believe it or not, and how we've spoken about colors and how we've identified colors, because there's studies that show that in some places, there was no differentiation for the word between blue and green. And that's then affects our language affects how, how will we see color, if there's, I teach a lot of people about color, and one of the things is, the more accurately you can verbalize what you say, the better you're going to become at seeing it, and vice versa. So it's sort of a two way thing,

Nick VinZant 7:23

too, just to make sure I kind of understand this, like people with regular eyesight can interpret the same color differently based on their experiences and background.

Kate Smith 7:32

Yes, you want me give a good example that you would probably recognize, remember the dress,

Nick VinZant 7:37

remember the dress?

Kate Smith 7:40

Yeah, it disrupted everyone's understanding of color. And it actually took scientists color scientists, two years to figure out why. And it was something that they hadn't really studied or been aware of before. But it was such a big, like an internet phenomena. But what it showed was that people's perception, it informs how they perceive color, and a big part of that is done lighting. And so that image of the dress, which was taken, I think on a cell phone, there was a lot of ambiguity or uncertainty in terms of what the lighting conditions were. And anytime we see something related to color, and we're faced with uncertainty, uncertainty, our mind confidently fills in the gaps in knowledge by making assumptions all behind the scenes we're not aware of so our mind perceives what it's most frequently encountered in the past. And that's how we judge so in that case, the dress Do you remember which cut what color it was? Was it blue or black or white and gold?

Nick VinZant 8:42

Black and Gold?

Kate Smith 8:45

Your choice is blue lacquer,

Nick VinZant 8:48

blue and black. But thanks for hedging your cover both. That's my background is to allow wiggle room where I'm not technically right. And I'm technically wrong at the same time.

Kate Smith 9:00

Where your that was a perfect answer, then the dresses was actually blue and black. Although most people saw it is white and gold, at least at first. And even how we feel can influence how we see color. And I often say that seeing color is not as much about what you see and more about what you think you see.

Nick VinZant 9:19

So are our colors. I know you work with a lot of brands and places like that our colors standardized in the sense that is red, red, and no matter who makes red, if it's this paint company or this paint company or this manufacturer, whatever that is red, and this is blue.

Kate Smith 9:37

That would make life so easy. I wish it was that simple. There's 1000s of different colors that people would consider red depending on the brand, but there are standardized systems. One that many people might know is Pantone. Pantone has a standardized system of color and it allows you to communicate with say with somebody far away if they Got the Pantone standard, and you had the Pantone standard, you could look at it and both say it's this particular PMS number is what we're going for. Because the only way to at least still today, to accurately make sure that you and I are on exactly the same idea of what that red is, is to look at it and to have a standard. Otherwise, say I say, oh, it's kind of an apple red. Well, my apple, maybe a different red than yours.

Nick VinZant 10:29

So does every color have an impact on us psychologically? Or is it only certain colors?

Kate Smith 10:36

I would say every color does to some degree, certain colors have a stronger impact. And we've already talked about Red Red is the color with the most with really the most impact on our psychology. And part of it is because sort of interesting when you think of red, what do you associate with the color red?

Nick VinZant 10:56

Warning? Probably a little bit warning, I definitely notice it. I always you will notice red faster than you notice any other color. I feel like

Kate Smith 11:07

yeah, maybe that maybe yellow is true. Red is kind of colors. Yeah, so very bright or orange, red, orange, yellow are the ones that you notice most quickly, one sort of why we paint school buses yellow or things in fire engines red, those are colors that are very noticeable. Red has some associations with also speed aggressiveness. So red cars, we talked about sexy red dresses, or lipstick. The idea of seeing red when you're angry. So there's this side of it, which is really the more of kind of an aggressive or out there not getting noticed me type of feeling. But reds also strongly associated with the emotion of love. So red roses, red hearts at Valentine's Day. And so you kind of go, Okay, how could these two, these one color have two such opposite? It can make us feel two such opposite ways. Any ideas?

Nick VinZant 12:09

They're kind of the same in some regard, right? Like, it represents warning, but also passion and excitement and differences. Like they're so they're directly opposite emotions, but also kind of the same. Like, for example, not to get into slavery stuff. Like, I love my wife. But I also like her, because she's new to me. She's vibrant, she's life in the same way. Right? So she's dangerous, but enticing in the same way?

Kate Smith 12:42

Well, you're very, you're very it, you've tuned it, you've kind of honed in on what I was sort of part of the explanation, because here's the thing. So when you think about the idea of red being associated with anger or aggression, it makes your heart beat faster, might make you feel a little bit more kind of revved up energy. So they get tangled up in our brain. So it's hard to say is that is the reason we're feeling that way love or anger? Because there's sort of a similar physical response. So red also has the ability to do that momentarily for us.

Nick VinZant 13:20

Are there any other colors that are kind of even if not at that level? But are there high up on that kind of? Oh, yeah, and scale,

Kate Smith 13:28

blue, blue, is that really a great one too, because blue is known to calm us down. And blue can have a very just the opposite effect of read, it can make us feel, take a breath, breathe a little deeper, take a rest. So there's something very calming about it. And the researchers don't know exactly why but part of it they think could be because back in the times when we were working out in fields and outside most of the time, the times we took a break, we did two things we either sat by water, or we sort of laid in the grass on our back and looked up at the sky. Those are times of rest and that got our brain thinking that when we see blue, that those are the times that we're we're calming ourselves down.

Nick VinZant 14:15

Is there any color though that like nothing? We feel nothing in regards to that color?

Kate Smith 14:22

Um, no, no, not that I'm aware of because I can I can give you examples of everything even white people go well what about white? Like, no, I don't think about white. Well, yeah, you do. White is fresh, it's refreshing. It's it's sort of things that are pure, but most importantly to a lot of people. It's the idea of a clean slate. So it's like the in why people that are sometimes overwhelmed or attracted to very minimalist or even white just surroundings is because it's clearing it seems like you know, open possibilities, nothing confrontational. So you can We also see, often the idea of white is being trusted. Although blue is the most trusted color, even grays and neutrals that you might think, yeah, who cares? It's gray. It's beige. But there's the association of stability, a strong foundation. Often when life is upsetting, or we're feeling unstable, we find ourselves more attracted to those neutrals. Because of that feeling of sturdiness and stability. I think people often think it's because we want to make and, you know, we're concerned about finances, let's say that we're attracted to those colors because they're safe. Well, safe, means more than just the fact that they're gonna go with everything and not go out of style, it means that we feel like there's some security there.

Nick VinZant 15:49

So do brands use this kind of color theory, color psychology to basically get us to do stuff?

Kate Smith 15:57

Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. It's so studied in it's so interesting to understand your reaction. Now, this is the fourth thing that when I say is, to me is some of the most interesting things. So as buyers, it really shouldn't surprise any of us that color can influence purchasing decisions. But you might be almost taken aback by just how influential color is. So when you look at a new product, or when any consumer looks at a product, they tend to make a decision about that product in 90 seconds or less. And the single most crucial component in that decision is color. Color accounts for roughly, I think about 90% of the initial judgment. So do you think it's influential? Yes. And I'll give you an example. This is one of my favorites, because I just think this is something people every person can relate to. If you were going to go buy a new car, and you had not only the car in mind, but I'm sure you have a color in mind. So let's say you wanted that red sports car, and you show up money in hand ready to buy it, and the only color they had was black. Would you still buy it? Not if you dreamed of red, most people wouldn't they would go somewhere else they would sometimes in certain instances, depending on what it is, they might even switch brands. So there's a big people want things in the color. And the more personal the purchase, the more important it is to the person to have it in their particular choice of color because it says something about you.

Nick VinZant 17:39

That is absolutely true. There are things that I would honestly say my biggest purchasing decisions in regards to car has been based on the color of the car, of course, totally alone, not alone. But like, Well, did they come? Does it come in silver or blue? And if it didn't, I'm not buying it?

Kate Smith 17:59

Mm hmm. You have your cell phone?

Nick VinZant 18:05

Yeah. That's straight, minimalist, black. Yeah, right. Every cell phone that I've ever owned, straight, minimalist, black. Yeah, got everything?

Kate Smith 18:17

Yes. Even down to things that you wouldn't think are that it that that are kind of funny. Things like washer and dryer is years ago, they became sort of a status symbol, they have certain colors. And now people, companies will actually from a brand, let's say a particular brand. A big retailer may ask for a special color, just because they know that if they can only get it from you, people will be likely to come and buy it because he's the same product, but they want your color. They'll come and purchase that from you. Because that's how important that getting the color is.

Nick VinZant 18:54

They'll specifically design it based on what colors they think people will buy. Oh, sure,

Kate Smith 18:59

sure. Yeah. Yeah, people will companies do that. You can even own a color for certain categories of products. So think of Owens Corning owns pink for insulation. So if you go by someplace, it's building a home and you see pink, everybody knows what that is because they're the only company that can make insulation in that color.

Nick VinZant 19:21

So you work with a lot of companies, I guess, kind of describe to me generally like what you do.

Kate Smith 19:26

Well, I've done a lot of things over the years. I work today, mainly with manufacturers, and I work with them specifically on color, but not always choosing color. I used to do more making color choices, color trends, predictions. Today. My main focus is on one thing and one thing I think I do very well, which is explain color in a way that the average consumer can make an excellent color decision.

Nick VinZant 19:53

How did you get into this?

Kate Smith 19:55

Oh, that's another great question. My background is not in interior design like many people Thanks. I have a studio art drawing and painting background. When I got out of college, I had to go to work and actually make a living. And I went to work in IT manufacturing in menswear apparel to begin with, but, and then team sportswear. So I used to do work with the NFL, and do the team uniforms, and those kinds of things and work with the team that worked at Reebok and we outfitted 10 NFL teams and a lot of college teams. And I also did a men's sportswear line. And that's a big place where I honed my color trend forecasting skills.

Nick VinZant 20:36

And the brands that you work with and the manufacturers you work with, like do they endlessly sweat over this and been like, it's going to? Should we take green one? Or green two? Should we take green one? Or green two? Like do they Antec agonize over this? Does it really make a difference? Or is it like, look, people want green? Just Just make it green?

Kate Smith 20:58

Oh, no, it's it's very specific. And we do agonize about it. And people spend a lot of time considering the color and the specific, exact, specific color. But the thing is, is it's kind of good news. Because when I first got into this, well over 30 years ago, maybe closer to 40. I would be working in a company. And sometimes we've spent all this time putting the color palette together and the CEO or the marketing manager or somebody. Yeah, my wife didn't like that one. So we don't want to make that. Like, are you kidding? Because they didn't you know what they didn't understand at that time. Like most people don't know how influential color is and how much goes into thinking about it and making those decisions. And so, but once I think corporations saw how much it could affect the bottom line, they took a lot more notice. So today, yes, it's very, very well thought out. And a green is not just a green, heaven forbid. But I understand that most people wouldn't care so much about putting the energy into finding the difference in kind of the nuance of the color.

Nick VinZant 22:14

But that kind of sounds like the way that it is like brands and agony and weight, agonize over it. And for consumers. It's a snap decision. And like, I don't like that one.

Kate Smith 22:25

You're absolutely right. But here's the thing, when you put in the time to doing the color trend forecasting and figuring it out, I've long said, the best trend forecasters are the ones that are just tuned in and what you're going to want and don't know it. So they're gonna they're going to figure out what the color is that when you see it, you're gonna make that step decision and go, Oh, I love that. That's it? Gosh, I didn't know I needed that. And that particular green.

Nick VinZant 22:56

So then how do you do color forecasting? Right? Like how to trends change in color?

Kate Smith 23:01

Well, there's a lot that goes into it, but I'll try to simplify it. And just a couple of just a couple of ideas. One, there's a lot about what's going on in the world. So as I always say the issues that keep you awake at night, so whatever it is, are we worried about the economy, a lot of people today are worried about the economy, are we worried about are we gonna have a job, there's all these things that concern us. And based on what's concerning us in our mind, it's going to influence what we want to surround ourselves with. And the things that affect color affect everything in the world. It's no different. So if you think of it this way, we're always trying to get in balance. So if we're feeling like we need, we're concerned about one thing, what color makes us feel a little better, helps bring us back into balance. So if you said, we talked about it earlier, I'm low on energy. What might I like? Well, you might like a bright, exuberant color, like the attracted to red or yellow or something, or you might be so out of energy that you want something like blue just go or white? Just take me away from it all. It really is almost that simple. The other thing that affects color trends are where, what's everyone looking at? So when I say that it's what's going on in the world, that we're all suddenly turning our attention. I think a good example of this would be a Olympics. So when the Olympics are in a particular country for a year or two beforehand, we learn a lot about that country, we see little snippets about their culture, and we see things that we like, and so when the Olympics were in London, let's say everywhere you saw that keeps calm and carry on, keep, you know, whatever. And they made 1000s of variations, that little slogan because it came out of something that came out. It was a very UK kind of thing. When we were looking at China, the colors from China like red and gold became more popular in the palette. We cherry pick what we like about something. And then the last thing is just simply technology. So what's cool, what's new? What can we do now in color that we haven't been able to do before. So that will also also influence. But the what we're looking at can even be the movies. And one of the best examples of that is when that acid green became very popular. It was based on Shrek. So when the movie Shrek came out shortly thereafter, everybody wanted acid green. And we thought it was going to be for kids and sports and rec, but didn't even want it to home. People. Just everybody just seemed to like that color.

Nick VinZant 25:36

That's so interesting. So okay, let's hypothetical situation. It's 2023. And the economy is going down. So like you would look at the news that's happening today, or at that time and say, well, people think of green and money. So we don't want to make green in 2024.

Kate Smith 25:58

People do associate greed with money. In fact, it's, in one study, it was the favorite color of millionaires was green. Now, I don't know that it was just coincidental. But my son's favorite color is green. So I have big hopes for him. But we do associate something when we're feeling that way. And let's take it back to about 2008. Remember, 2008 people weren't feeling great about the economy. Initially, the very first reaction was fun, bright colors. And I used to joke I said, Well, when you can't look at your portfolio to make you feel good, you got to have something surrounding you that makes you feel good. But that becomes short lived for maybe a season or two. And then we start to look for those neutrals, those stabilities those stabilizing colors that can make us feel like okay, it's everything's gonna be okay.

Nick VinZant 26:52

It's so interesting to me. It's fast. So you're

Kate Smith 26:55

gonna think you're gonna totally think about your choices

Nick VinZant 26:57

all the time. I would like every single choice that I make. Right? Like, is it because I like that or because I like that color? And I honestly don't know which one it is. Most people know, right? Yeah. Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Sure. Bring them on. Let's start controversial. Who has more of an eye for color or pays more attention to color men or women?

Kate Smith 27:25

Oh, it's not controversial. It's scientifically proven that women do

Nick VinZant 27:29

buy a lot or buy like a little quite a

Kate Smith 27:31

bit. The women's vote vote and here's why you remember I said earlier about vocabulary the vocabulary for color for women is much broader. We have many many more words that we regularly use for color and there's definitely a connection between the words you use and how interested in while you see it.

Nick VinZant 27:51

I've heard the same thing about women and smells because women are generally more associated and just historically with you know the cooking and the cleaning that they're generally around more scent mouths and that by for my wife she makes the choices of what kind of things that we're getting so she's looking at colors much more than I am

Kate Smith 28:11

that's yeah it is in in fact scent is something that's very closely associated with colors and right now talking about not being aware of colors I don't want to get off track because it's not my exact you know it's not really my total specialty but I'm something I'm very interested in is sent marketing and almost everywhere you go into a hotel, a cruise, certain stores even Starbucks, it's all piped in sent so you probably thought Starbucks always smelled like coffee just on their own but Starbucks has to cover the breakfast sandwiches the food that the mass that smell in pipe in I think some coffee smell.

Nick VinZant 28:49

Does the hue matter? Like how much does the hue matter in something right so example this blue, blue or blue creates this kind of an emotion but is the light blue a different emotion than dark blue? Like does the hue matter? Yes,

Kate Smith 29:07

that's kind of the act like you will say nuance of color. So one particular blue would create this feeling and then if you change it make it lighter, darker, more grain all of those little changes are very specific to how we react to something and green might be an example where green in a springy green that's a little bit yellow could make us think of things that are fresh in growth and oftentimes even financial growth that's why h&r Block used that for their little square for their for their logo there was that that idea but take it a little bit more yellow or murky and pretty soon it's slimy and scent drab. Yeah. So there's there's those changes in how how things make you feel where you can Take it a little bit, slightly bluer and all of a sudden it's very calming and beachy And so yes, definitely the the nuances of the color can change how we think about it and how we react to it.

Nick VinZant 30:11

Favorite, what's your favorite color?

Kate Smith 30:14

Oh, I absolutely have a favorite people think that's like saying I have a favorite child, which I have that too, because I only have one. So I do have a favorite child and I have a favorite color. It's blue, green. any shade of kind of blue green, turquoise teal, is my favorite. But I have a confession. I was born on the cusp of Aquarius the water bearer and Pisces the fish. So how can I not like a watery hue?

Nick VinZant 30:38

Most overused color, like oh, they gotta stop. Everybody's gonna stop paying their house, they gotta stop making

Kate Smith 30:45

people said gray recently because so many people liked it. And I think the thing is any color that lots and lots of people use all at the same time. So back in the day, we had the turquoise and chocolate brown trend that people seem to everyone probably before you baby before your decorating days. But it was so popular that I used to call it choc chocolate. I gave it it's only his own name. He was such a popular trend. And then at some point, people just got tired of it. They're like no, I don't want though I don't want that color. I don't want that combination. Now with gray being so popular, a lot of people are saying okay, get over it enough gray already. And let's move on to more colors.

Nick VinZant 31:26

Color. That is fantastic. But must be used sparingly. Like, Oh, that's great. Like, to me, it's like hot sauce. Like I like it every once in a while.

Kate Smith 31:39

There's there's not that the answer to that isn't specific to a particular color as much as it is to you yourself. So I'd say a lot of times people will see something new and often it is a brighter color. So let's go back to that acity green, great color. But do you want your hole? Do you want every wall in your house painted that color? No. But could you use it in some accessory and it'd be really fun and stand out and be great. I think that's true of everything. And the other thing is, is sometimes what people call those ugly colors are exactly what you need to have a little bit of to break up all the rest. Because we're always by compare, we're always kind of seeing color and comparison. So often sort of those murky, your neutral colors will make other colors stand out. So it just depends on what that is for you. But I would just say if you see something, a color that hasn't been in sort of your world or your something you've been interested in before and all of a sudden you're very attracted to it. Don't go out and buy lots of stuff and and buy one thing. Usually we like similar colors through our life and just add them a little bit. Like we can like something for a moment and then be over it. But then there's those other things that we just like our whole life.

Nick VinZant 32:58

I like this question. It's maybe you can answer it. Maybe you can't. Why do they only make men's shirts in blue and white?

Kate Smith 33:07

Oh, well. That's a good question. But it's absolutely not not true. And here's why I say it's not I don't remember if it was the US or UK where there was a study done and it was a while ago, where pink actually overtook blue is the second most popular shirt to white. And in the sense was then edged out by purple. Lavender.

Nick VinZant 33:31

What is your least favorite color?

Kate Smith 33:34

Oh, I actually don't have a least favorite. But here's what I will say about that is there's no bad colors. There's no colors I don't think are favorites. But there are some unfortunate color combinations.

Nick VinZant 33:46

What's the best NFL uniform color wise?

Kate Smith 33:50

Oh, good question. You know when I got so burned out on sports teams, I haven't been paying as much attention lately. I was around the time when they changed San Francisco 14 hours. In fact, it was my team that worked on that to change it from red and this kind of unattractive khaki tan with some green in it to the current colors which are a better tan and that burgundy uniform. And I still love that combination. I loved it when we did it. I loved it today. There's some other good ones out that is

Nick VinZant 34:20

probably to me the the Seahawks I think it's good to see like I did

Kate Smith 34:24

Seahawks as well. Yeah, I worked on that. I mean, I've been to that stadium many times basically it's all you know, it's just that they're just good colors. I can't take credit for it. It's just the like I say the color Hall of Fame. That would be one of the things that I worked on.

Nick VinZant 34:38

I feel like the best color combinations are always something different. Something traditional but a little different. Like I think like I think of the San Francisco 40 Niners words that solid read that oh everybody's likes read but it's a little different read and then it's the different like they do have cool looking uniform. So you did a good job.

Kate Smith 34:57

Thanks. I'm not sure they're exactly the same ones I worked up They are called uniforms. Hawks, and Seahawks, the green and blue. Always a classic. I mean, it's just, you know, at one time, there used to be saying blue and green should never be seen seen together. But that's the earth. That's everything I happen to love that combination

Nick VinZant 35:19

that kind of leads us into this question who makes colors better nature or us?

Kate Smith 35:24

Oh nature. It's even though we make some awesome colors. But, boy, if I ever want to get inspired, all you have to do is really go out. Look around and look closely at some of the colors and the combinations and nuances of color. It's amazing,

Nick VinZant 35:39

best named color, worst named color, like,

Unknown Speaker 35:43

oh,

Kate Smith 35:45

well, there's one that I think a lot of your listeners may know, I'm not a waitress which was a nail color by OPI, it's because it was a record red nail polish color. But there's so many good, there's so many great names. It's I think it's not so much a bad name as much as the idea that the name can sway your impression of the color, again, to what you even see in it. So if you reach here to see your name, it can almost change because you're looking for what you want to see.

Nick VinZant 36:18

Can you walk into someone's house and tell what kind of person they are by the colors they've chosen?

Kate Smith 36:25

Yes, absolutely. You're making me laugh. Because in I did something for House Beautiful magazine. And they just sent me 10 pictures of people's houses and say what does it say about them? And I thought, Okay, I'll give it a shot. And I sent back what I you know what I thought what it said to me about the person, and the editor in chief sent me back a letter and say, Oh, my gosh, I am blown away by this. Now, I didn't know why. Because I didn't know where those rooms came from who they were what he knew, I didn't know what they were, I just had a picture, and the design and the color choices. And then the magazine comes out and I read all the articles. Well, he already knew what I didn't know, which was people talked about themselves and their houses and everything. The information was so absolutely on target it even frightened me was like, oh my god, this is amazing. Is

Nick VinZant 37:25

what what color choice says the most about somebody?

Kate Smith 37:29

Well, I think it's the your personal items. So I wouldn't even say necessarily Clothes, clothes can say something. But there's a lot of things that can influence what kind of clothes we choose. And some people don't even think that much about it. But the things like if you choose a particular color for your car, for your cell phone for the things that are part of your everyday life that you feel reflect your personality, those say the most if you've taken the time to decorate your home, it says a tremendous amount about you just by your color choices. And the way you've the amount of color the way you've used things, it just says it can say a lot about you.

Nick VinZant 38:07

Hardest color to create.

Kate Smith 38:10

I think the hardest color Well there's a couple of things that people might not think of because they're probably thinking of something really like a cool color. But black and white, it's very hard to you because you can't really get pure white and white, believe it or not even for house paint only came I think it's in the 40s it became popular because before that there was not a good white paint. And then black to get this true, they call now vanta black, a very, very deep dark black because black, just by the nature of pigments will actually have either a little bit of blue or it'll seem a little green. It's it's not so easy to make pure colors. And then the ones that are frustrating for people are things like beiges and grays because they sometimes can look different than what they appear. Once you you might when you're holding something in isolation, even white. You can think oh yeah, it's just white. Put that next to three other whites and you'll realize that some of them are a little yellow, some of them might be a little blue, some of them a little more gray. So only by comparison, can we see colors. And so oftentimes, that's why people get frustrated. Now I just happen to like making cool colors. So I'm with whoever asked because that's probably what they're thinking is like, how could you make like fuchsia or hot pink or something fun? They're actually oftentimes easier to make than the neutrals.

Nick VinZant 39:37

What what do you think is the future of color? Like what's the Where do you think this goes? What do you think the hot new trend is?

Kate Smith 39:45

What you started to talk about trends a little bit before and I will tell you that most trends are forecast out for years. So I think the some of the longer ones are like autos, the color that they're going to make cars are from five to seven years from now is what they're looking at right now. Oh, is what the color will be popular in five to seven years. So I that's generally how three years kind of minimum of what we're looking out at. In fact, when I did nothing but color trend forecasting, I'd be so thinking so far in the future, that when I'd be in a certain I'd see something I'm like, Oh, is that now, it's now finally, I forgot about that color. Because we talked about that two years ago. Because we're working, you know, the manufacturing cycle, and so forth. But I think the future of color in general, trends will always be important, because we just want to try to figure out what people are gonna want to surround themselves with, but it's less about trendy. And it's more about finding what works for you. And just being be more confident and feeling like you can do your own thing. And I see many younger people feeling totally confident about making decisions and not agonizing it, about it in the way that we used to is it going to be liked? Is it on trend? Is it the right color? No, because there is no longer a right or wrong, anything. When it comes to color. It's what you It's you understanding how to take that vision out of your head and have that show up either in your home or whatever, however you're using it. And I think that's going to become more. I think it's going to become more and more true. And we're going to use it to express ourselves in a lot of different ways.

Nick VinZant 41:25

How do you feel that I don't like the color khaki? I've always hated that color.

Kate Smith 41:29

Is it the name or the color?

Nick VinZant 41:31

I think it's actually the name.

Unknown Speaker 41:32

I think about it.

Kate Smith 41:34

It's not a good name. Yeah. Khaki is cookie. Well, it also Kathy, for those callers that have Yeah, can have a lot of a lot of variations, and many of them are unattractive. So I can understand that.

Nick VinZant 41:47

Khaki is the worst, worst name color. I'm gonna go ahead and claim that.

Kate Smith 41:52

Yeah, yeah, I think that's I think that is a pretty a pretty bad one. It probably is not. Maybe it's not a great color on you either, is it?

Nick VinZant 41:59

No. And it reminds me of middle management. Yes, yes.