As a swordsmith Matt Stagmer is unique. He’s one of only a handful of people who can still make a sword from scratch. It’s a skill he’s used to make everything from historical replicas and high-end customs to fictional blades right out of The Witcher and The Legend of Zelda. We talk swordmaking, blacksmithing and the funnest things to cut. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Sharp Things.

Matt Stagmer: 01:28ish

Pointless: 40:20ish

Top 5: 58:08ish

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Matt Stagmer Interview

Nick VinZant 0:12

Welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant Coming up in this episode swords and the best sharp things,

Matt Stagmer 0:19

I'm focusing on the higher end pieces so I only make half a dozen maybe a dozen if I'm making a lot swords a year, you got to be part artists and part athlete you really do you have to condition yourself this business as a business is is is grueling, but you got to continue to develop everything I would say so far The Witcher sword that we made was very, very difficult. We made it out of meteorite.

Nick VinZant 0:45

I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, subscribe, leave us a rating or a review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. So our first guest has been making swords for 20 plus years. And he can do something that very few other people can do make steel from scratch. And when he makes swords, he's not just making really high end detailed swords. He's making historical swords, and even ones from fiction, like the Zelda sword or the Witcher sword or an 11 foot long sword used by Optimus Prime. This is Sword Maker, Matt Stagner. How hard is it to make a sore

Matt Stagmer 1:30

I would say for the general person, it's almost impossible. Having 25 years of experience almost 24 and a half. I can make a generic sword pretty quickly. And it's not terribly difficult. However, just like any other art form, swords can be simple or they can be very elaborate and the elaborate ones to take can take a year. So there's a lot of work and a lot of skill to develop to get there.

Nick VinZant 1:57

Now was it always swords for you? Or did you kind of start out making something else and then go into for

Matt Stagmer 2:03

me, I never thought about being a Sword Maker. However, my brother's 19 years older than me. So when I needed a job, he was already making swords and armor on a very elementary level. They weren't nice at all. But he had a business established and I was already doing architecture and engineering and high school and like just about every artistic thing you could do. So I was already like developing those kind of skills you would need and I just kind of wanted a generic job when I was 15. And I started working with him. I always thought that would be just kind of a side gig. But for me, it just stuck. I tried a bunch of different things I tried a plus net plus, I tried the whole network engineering thing and just always kind of came back that nothing can hold my interest like making swords because it's it really has all kinds of different artistic avenues in it. So it really was the right route for me than I ended up sticking with it kind of fought it until maybe my mid 20s Till I really kind of embrace that that was what my life was going to be. But yeah, that's how I got started.

Nick VinZant 3:12

Why is it so difficult to make them? Is it difficult because like, alright, this is advanced physics, or is it difficult? Like you've it's just step after step after step?

Matt Stagmer 3:23

Well, I mean, there's like I said, There's levels so like when I first started we were basically taking a bar of steel and just on grinders grinding the shape, there wasn't really any forging done no hot work per se until you heat treat the blade. But now where I'm at now I forge every single blade I even tried to make my own steel from time to time I certainly develop patterns in Damascus. There's all kinds of if you imagine mosaic tiles, you can literally mosaic steels different Steel's together and make elaborate patterns within the blade itself before you even get to grinding. So there's a it really is one of those crafts, especially if you break it down into regional cultures, like if you just study Japanese katanas or if you just study European swords, like every single one of those disciplines is a lifelong journey to learn those disciplines. So you never really finished learning how to make a sword I know how to make some swords very well, pretty fast and efficient. And other ones. You know, I'm just learning and you're a constant student of the craft if you're doing it right. Basically until you stop

Nick VinZant 4:31

when you say like I can make that pretty fast like how long does it take you to make one quickly on average the longest it's taken you

Matt Stagmer 4:39

the reason I say that is because like I'm kind of considered to be one of the guys that goes the fastest. I've just I've made probably well over 100,000 swords in my time. Now a lot of those are very simple stage combat stuff you might see at a Renaissance Festival the jousters using they are not sharp there. are just kind of made to look sharp, and be tough in a stage presence so they can climb together not break, you have to make them tough. So those are a lot quicker than say, if I was making a high end, medieval reproduction where it was sharp and the edge had to be perfectly aligned, and all of that kind of stuff. So for me, back when I was doing those production swords, I could make about 10 a day. Now, that's what the team around me as well. So I'm not doing everything. So if I did do it myself, still, you know, multiple a day. Now I'm slow down, which has been a hard thing. So like I said, I've been making sores for almost 25 years. In my later part of my career now where I'm basically working on my own. I'm focusing on the higher end pieces, so I only make half a dozen, maybe a dozen if I'm making a lot swords a year, you can make them fast, you can make them slow, definitely somewhere in the middle is probably where the affordable pieces come from. But right now trying to focus on the nicer pieces.

Nick VinZant 6:05

Is making a sword inherently more difficult than making a knife or is it just the sword is harder? Because it's bigger?

Matt Stagmer 6:11

That's a good question. And if you asked, most people go from making knives to then making larger and larger pieces. So they're knife makers, and then they'd like might try a sword or two in their career. Or maybe they just embrace the sword thing. And they would say swords are much harder, I would say, the knives at the level of standard that I'm trying to make them now which is like perfection is much much harder than making a sword. So with a sword you're working from, let's just say medieval swords, you're working from a medieval sword standard. And if you look at the fit and finish that was made back then they're all made by hand, there was no electrical computer controlled milling machines or, or routers or anything like that making them they're all made by hand. And there's imperfections which actually, to me are very pleasant to the eye. Because it shows the Craftsman it shows the fingerprints of the craftsmen in the whole piece. So they'll fit in finish of the swords is not as high as a modern knife where everything is expected to be perfect and look like a robot made it. So to me, I think modern modern knife making not reproduction knife making but modern knife making to me at this point is much harder than making swords. Really, but most people would say just the sheer size of a sword is what makes it difficult for me. I'm just bred and just raised in that. So like the size doesn't scare me. It's more of the minut details that are what I'm trying to learn.

Nick VinZant 7:48

Is it harder to do kind of like the big things? Or the little tiny things in the sense that like, is it to make the whole blade or like man, it's really hard to just make this little cut at the

Matt Stagmer 7:59

top. So yeah, so we get so I run a YouTube channel, where we make everything from giant like video game swords, to making very historical smaller reproductions of something because people always think of like conium or swords are big and heavy. But the realistic sword is actually quite like under 300 under three pounds total. So a sword, a medieval sword is very light. But we get asked all the time, what was the hardest build you've ever done on YouTube channel. And sure, like something like Optimus Prime's giant sword that we made huge, it's like, you know, 11 feet tall, would be considered something that was very difficult just because of its sheer size and having to maneuver around and grind shape. But for me, the historical, small, highly detailed, sometimes the Japanese pieces, those are truly where you, you're not just physically overwhelmed, you actually have to have develop the skill and the eye for those minut details. So I would say the minut details are much more difficult to achieve in sword making than say, just grand scale.

Nick VinZant 9:06

So, you know, in kind of the 10,000 foot view to use corporate language, which I which I just cringed a little bit at hearing me say that, but like, people can see this on your YouTube channel, but in general, like how do you make a sword? What's kind of the process?

Matt Stagmer 9:23

So the way I go about making swords these days? First I'm going to decide whether or not this is going to be a Damascus sword. Let's just take that. As an example. Damascus sword is a layered sword, often referred to as pattern welded. So we're talking. No, not at all the viewers can see me but you have one layer of steel, another layer of steel and we're like literally piling it up. And you forge build those into one. And by the time you get a blade out, depending on how you manipulate those levels, those layers, you get a beautiful pattern. I start by selecting what Steel's I'm going to use. Now you want to use something that's going to to different kinds of steel, so they show different colorization in the end, forge weld those together. So if I start with say 20 layers in that initial stack, I got to decide how many layers you want in a sword. Now you hear like, in books and novels, a million layer blade or the blade had been folded a million times what they mean is increasing that layer by literally drawing it out, folding in on itself. So now 40 layers, draw it out folding it ourselves, now I have 80, draw it out. Now I want the 60

Nick VinZant 10:30

multiplying it, it's not like you got to

Matt Stagmer 10:33

decide three, right. So back in the day, when they were making their own Steel's from literally iron ore, they had to fold just to get the impurities out. So they wouldn't say I'm going to make a 300 layer blade, they would keep folding that material until all the all the impurities were gone, and they had a nice solid chunk of steel, and then they would make their blade. For me as a modern maker, I'd have to decide on the look that I want. Because modern Steel's are obviously much better than what you can make from dirt. So for me, I decide to layer count, forge forge that initial billet folded as many times as I want, then I'm forging the sword, then you rough grind the sword, then you heat treat, this is all just the blade, then you heat treat, which means I'm just gonna give a very generic definition. But you would heat the blade up till basically a red hot color and quench it in either water or oil and that fast cooling of the steel, the Superfast cooling makes your blade very, very tough very hard. You then actually have to heat it up very slowly to a lower level like 400 degrees. Like that's what your average kitchen oven reaches to give you context to then take it from that super brittle hard back to a toughness then you have a hardened blade and then from there all the finishing work all the garniture forging or grinding all your you know your guard your pommel, which is the counterbalance, making your handle out of wood. Deciding how you're going to finish the handle whether you're going to cover in leather, cover and Cord Cover and wire, there's so many options. And that's just kind of working from a medieval, you know, like if you picture a medieval knight in your head. That's how you'd make that style of swords. That's just a very brief overview of how you would do it. But there's many, many steps.

Nick VinZant 12:25

What determines if something is a good sword? Is it just the steel itself and how many times it's been folded is the edge like?

Matt Stagmer 12:32

Well, that would be what its intended uses what the intended buyer or person that it's made for. A lot of modern sword makers these days are selling to Hema practitioners, which are historical, European Martial artists who take manuscripts of how the knights and people back in the medieval time actually fought. And they do their very best to learn that craft as if they were in the shoes of someone back then. So if you're making something for them, they need it light. They need it sharp, they needed as close historically accurate as possible. And they needed to not break. So all of those things are very, very important. If I'm selling to, say Elon Musk, or somebody like that, who wants the most elaborate, beautiful sword to literally hang in a lobby and say, wow, look what I got, or any art collector, perhaps the most important to them is how visually impressive it is. So really, there's so many different things that literally when somebody contacts me and says Hey, will you make me a sword I don't take that many commissions anymore. Kind of make what I want and and sell it but it's a long conversation to figure out exactly what their intended use is so I can get the piece in their hand. That will make them the happiest Yeah, so that's a long answer to a short question. But yeah, there's

Nick VinZant 14:03

when you're when you talk about folding the sword we're talking about one same piece of steel, not like an Oreo cookie where I got like this piece Yeah, and actually on it,

Matt Stagmer 14:14

it is kind of like an Oreo cookie. So the reason that you would make Damascus in the modern world Damascus or pattern world steel, however you want to refer to it in the modern world is literally for beauty. So hot nickel is nickel is a very shiny metal, right. So if you have one of your metals has high nickel in it, that's going to be very bright in the end. And if you take something with very low nickel, it's going to etch very dark color. So by the time you make this pattern like Oreo cookie, many many many Oreo cookies on top and then you smash it to a blade and you lay it out you have almost like a topographical map. When you etch it, etching meaning you put it into an asset of some sort, and then it etches both of those materials differently. So you have like a black and white look to your blade. With all kinds of however you manipulate the pattern, there's a million ways to do it. It's hard to explain non technical but yeah, so yes, you are using two different metals to start with in modern making.

Nick VinZant 15:20

Oh, and then So you combine the two metals, and then you start the folding process. Sure. Okay. Are we? Are we better at this now than we used to be?

Matt Stagmer 15:31

Ah, well, that's also a hard question to answer. So if you want to it took more skill to refine raw materials into a sword took way more knowledge and skill than buying my steel like I do from a steel manufacturer. And they give it to me and I have detailed scientific specs of everything, how much carbon? How much Chrome, how much molybdenum? Every kind of element that's in that steel, I have a did I have a readout on a big sheet of paper of everything that's in there, they didn't have that. So they needed just to be able to get to the point to make a bar that's tough enough to make a sword. They had to know how to refine it. Now when I'm saying refining it to get the the flaws out. It's more than that. So we're using modern propane forges that blow oxygen and propane in and ignite in a very calculated way. And we know how we know what's going on in there. Scientifically, there's certain amount of h2o, oxygen, propane, everything we know what's going on. They're using charcoal and coal to forge their stuff. And so they're actually adding carbon as they're working, they have to know what temperatures they have to know a lot more than just that knowledge before we're even talking about the skill to sculpt the steel itself is much more than the average knife or Sword Maker has these days. Now what's really neat what's been going on in say the last, I'd say 10 years in the sword making community not so much the knife making but sword making community is we are getting back to making our own Steel's and seeing historical manuscripts of how they made the smelters, and trying to literally start from dirt and create our own steels. It's something that the Japanese culture never let go of, they've always kept that tradition from, you know, 1000 years ago till now they have sword makers, and you're only allowed to be a Sword Maker. If you do it right. In Japan, there are no bad sword makers, Japan, but in the European context, or, you know, the Western world, if you will, we don't have that continuous culture of making swords for obvious reasons, because they pretty much became extinct. So we're trying to as sword makers, there's a lot of people getting into how to make the steel how to work the steel and how to do it, like they close as close as possible to how maybe they did it. And that's been a fun journey. I kind of dabbled in myself, as well as along with my partner, Ilya, he really is into it. And yeah, it's hard to say like, are they gonna make if you want to stack up a the average medieval Sword Maker versus me or the average Sword Maker today, and put those swords together? And like, test them against each other? I'd say the source of today, we'll destroy them. But if we're talking about pure talent, I mean, it took a lot more work knowledge and skill to do it back then than it does today. For sure.

Nick VinZant 18:27

Can you make it from scratch? Like, I'll give you dirt and rocks? And you could all right.

Matt Stagmer 18:31

I mean, it has to be the certain kind. Right? But yes, yeah, I have. And there's videos of us doing it. I actually just demonstrated up in New York last year, how to do how to do that smelting in front of a big audience at the Maker Camp, it's a really cool, get together of all kinds of different makers. We did a whole demonstration front of a crowd of how to smell your own steel from literally like, black sand that like if you walk along the beach, you ever seen those black lines? Yeah, that's iron. Literally, somebody collected that with a magnet. And we made that into steel, which we haven't made into a sword yet, but we made the steel.

Nick VinZant 19:12

How many people like just in the United States, for example, like how many people know how to do this still? I guess. Are we talking hundreds? 1000s 10s of 1000s?

Matt Stagmer 19:21

No, no, maybe? Maybe 20. And, like, we're talking about making your own steel of making a piece? Yeah, I'd say there's, I mean, 10 years ago, there were like four. And now there's maybe you know, 20? Maybe a few more than that. But not I mean, a lot of people do it wants to say they did it. That doesn't mean they did it. Right. And did it enough right to really, to really learn it. But there's not that many. There really isn't

Nick VinZant 19:51

me how many just even sword makers in general.

Matt Stagmer 19:55

I mean, I guess there's it depends on what level we're talking about. You're talking about they do it for a living or they have made Sword. There's there's a really cool network of teaching and classes now in the blacksmithing, and blade smithing world where you can go and take a week long course. And you can go home with a sword with very little experience at all, where they'll teach you how to do it. And if you're struggling, they'll help you. And that's a really cool thing you can do. So if you're really into and you want to do it, it's kind of like, I encourage you to go into it with a little bit of knowledge and metal, but if you don't have any, there's still places you can learn how to do it. I'd say people making a living, making swords. It's under 100 For sure. Companies that like do it under a dozen,

Nick VinZant 20:44

but the companies they're just mass producing it right? There's not somebody with a hammer by No, no,

Matt Stagmer 20:49

I mean, both of that, that I've seen below, but a lot of them are using modern, you know, equipment to do it. Like there's a company called Albion who makes about $3,000.02 to $3,000 swords and they're all Mater made, but they're doing it right and really getting the the end result is very museum ask now, how

Nick VinZant 21:07

much will you sell one of your swords for?

Matt Stagmer 21:09

Um, you know, I'm kind of still pretty new to this higher end stuff. But I'd say it's a really basic Ford sword for me is still going to be several $1,000.02 to $3,000. The most expensive piece I've ever sold was about 12,000. My partner just sold one for 40,000. Wow, I say partner. I mean, in my business, Ilya, he's a he's from Russia. He's a good friend of mine, we work together a bomber, I can sort a bunch. And now we've made our own business called that works, where we kind of still are two very separate entities where he has his stuff, and I have my stuff. But we get together and make videos, you know, at least one a month of making stuff together where we're doing projects together for the most part, and he makes much higher and stuff he's learned. He's got we just went down two different paths. He's more into the Yeah, the hand engraving stuff. So you see, like all the surfaces carved very elaborate pieces. And those pieces can go from 40,000 they can be you know, sky's the limit with that because the value is kind of in the beholder. So he's gotten into some higher end art exhibitions where it's more of an auction. So you kind of like set your, your minimum just like if you were selling something on eBay, and the buyers get to bid it out. And you know, you might be like to yourself say this is worth 10,000 But maybe a medieval art collector or somebody who has a Van Gogh in their mansion wants a sword hanging next to it, they might pay 150 grand for a sword so I mean, it really is subjective.

Nick VinZant 22:48

You ever wonder though somebody pays like 40,000 for a sword, they're just like swinging it around at home.

Matt Stagmer 22:54

And you know, they're gonna pay them I mean, honestly the piece that he sold that was about seven months often on not like continuous but almost seven months continuous work of high end work that he's spent a lifetime learning how to do. So it's not something I could teach someone to make.

Nick VinZant 23:13

Does it take a pretty good toll on your body? Absolutely. Yeah.

Matt Stagmer 23:17

So I went from doing the production sword stuff where I was literally at a sword grinder for eight hours a day. That's all I did. I just grabbed blades that's pretty much all I did. I didn't forge much back then. That forging was kind of a luxury I would take that would be my easy day off forging, grinding big swords. My elbows, my hands, my shoulders, everything you could imagine just you know, I'm not only 39 years old, but I've had like tendinitis, I've had like, years of pain in my in my joints. Yeah, kids, it's tough. It just is. And you if you do things properly, and you condition yourself, you gotta you gotta be part artists and part athlete you really do you have to condition yourself. A lot of people like say if you watch forging fire, if you see like fantasy movies, you think of the blacksmith being this big fat guy with a big beard. Now I got the big beard and I'm not exactly the skinniest guy. But that snot really the case somebody who's going to do this for a living is going to have to condition itself doesn't mean you're going to have a six pack abs but you are going to have shoulders that have something to them, you're going to have forearms that you know that have some some muscle and you have to treat it that way you and you have to do things kind of insets like you have to take a break. Let your muscles cool down, let the lactic acid get out. And literally just like a workout, like if you do it non stop and don't take a break. You'll deteriorate just like if somebody stay in the gym doing the same workout all day. Like, just can't do it. Now is

Nick VinZant 24:53

that because like you've got to do this thing so many times or because you just gotta like fold max effort swing, wait a minute full like is it you got to hit it that hard or you got to hit it that many times?

Matt Stagmer 25:08

Both. So like, say, like I said, I have experience of being somebody who made tons of pieces and then making Yeah, my time or higher in pieces. So when you're in sword production, yeah, it's just the repetition. It's literally like reps. Like, if you're working out for the higher end stuff, you still want to do it proficient, especially when we're making videos of a lot of this stuff. So we don't want to just put out the general information to people who don't understand there's a lot of people really understand what we're doing, and actually are trying to learn the craft that watch our videos. So we need to show them the proper techniques, and really propel the craft in the proper manner, as much as we possibly can. So, you know, some of the shortcuts you don't take in those videos, you know, we're we have power hammers, big machines that boom, boom, boom, that kind of replicate the swinging of the hammer. And we use a lot of power hammers in our videos, but at the same time, we still want to show you how to do it by hand. So, you know, it's a lot of work just is. It's fun, don't get me wrong, I have a great time. I really do. I enjoy what I'd done. My basically my entire life. And I highly recommend this as a hobby to anybody who wants to grab a hobby blacksmithing bladesmithing is a great hobby. A lot of people would like I've done TV shows, like with Danny Trejo was my co host, or I guess I was his co host, I should say that way. I've been on TV doing this craft, and I still highly recommend people to do this as a hobby and not a job. It's very difficult to do it as a job and defined. You have to be everything. You have to be like a social media genius, because you got to market yourself. This business as a business is is is grueling, but you got to continue to develop everything.

Nick VinZant 26:59

Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Yes, I am. What sword was the hardest for you to make?

Matt Stagmer 27:05

So kind of to harken back to what we said before, there's two levels of difficulty that I like to answer that question with one. And sometimes it's just the sheer size of something like the Optimus Prime sword, which had like over 700, and some pieces to put together to make a sword. And it was just gigantic. So that's very, very difficult. And then there's other things like the Japanese pieces that have very high level of detail. So for me, I would say so far, The Witcher sword that we made was very, very difficult. We made it out of meteorite forged, it had to grind it put tons of detail, there's gem Senate silver work gold work, I'd say the more detailed stuff is definitely the most difficult.

Nick VinZant 27:47

Is there a culture that like looking back like oh, they probably made the best swords.

Matt Stagmer 27:52

That's gonna be an ongoing, ongoing debate that no matter what answer I give you is going to be difficult. Now, I will straight up tell you that I haven't really dove into the Japanese blades, specifically, because I know when I do, it's going to eat up eight years of my life. But the Japanese culture definitely refined the craft as an art, more so than any other culture. Some people will say their sword blades weren't as good. Some people will say their swords were, like, just way better 10 fold better than a medieval sword, I would say that functionality is just different. They weren't it's like comparing an AR 15 and ak 47 They both seem to do the job pretty well. And they're very, very different. So I would say as a generic answer as an artist, I would say the Japanese culture

Nick VinZant 28:43

but they weren't necessarily the most useful when you look kind of back on it just different

Matt Stagmer 28:48

beasts, you know, they didn't have knights in shining armor, their their, their armor and stuff was usually made out of leather out of bamboo, they weren't really going up against full plated knights if you would. So that weapon evolved differently. That's a that's an island culture. So that's kind of think of it as another planet, that sword sword at that time yet sword was made the way it was, you know, 1000 years ago, and that sort of pretty much, I mean, little minut changes, but pretty much stayed the same piece and didn't evolve then if you take medieval weaponry, we go from one handed swords all the way up to like if you see three musketeers fencing style sorts because the evolution was you know, no armor, then you had to make a sword that went up against armor, then it went back to no armor and firearms. So the sword was kind of more of your secondary thing. You'd have a firearm first, then you'd have a very fancy, elaborate sword that was a status symbol and all of that. So in the Western world, the sword evolved very much differently than saying Japan, which may be some of the reason why katanas In the Japanese culture developed such a high rich art form because it was continuous. And it was the same for, you know, very hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years and continues to be so. So they really got a chance to perfect. That kind of singular item where in Europe every 50 years, they were changing completely the weaponry they were using.

Nick VinZant 30:25

Now looking at it, like what would you say is your favorite historical sword?

Matt Stagmer 30:30

I, I've always said the Gladius, which is the Roman short sword. It's kind of my favorites, a very wide kind of leaf blade sword. But, I mean, it changes all the time. I love the beautiful hand and a half which is like, if you see Lord of the Rings, they have long sword with two handed grips. It's kind of like there's a beauty in that. I think that's kind of the highest level of evolution that that style of sword had also really enjoy the Viking swords Viking swords kinda like just have a feel to them that nothing else has. But I'd say it's my signature, like what people think of me enjoying the most would be the Roman Gladius. I mean, that's the sword that literally conquered the world at that time. Yeah.

Nick VinZant 31:16

So is there one looking back on it like historical swords where you'd say, oh, that's actually a lot harder to make than people would think, Oh, man,

Matt Stagmer 31:24

just about all of them. I would say, like the later re Ray piers, the three musketeers era, if you will swords. If you make one of those today, we have modern welders, to put all the elaborate different basket weaved guards together to weld all the pieces together, but they didn't have them. So they had a whole nother three dimensional puzzle to figure out how to make all those pieces come together and not fall apart. They're forge welding, they had to learn different techniques with torches and how to do how to make it all without modern. So you know, as a modern Sword Maker, you have to decide are you going to make it the way that they did? And try to really dive into that? Or are you just going to make it you know, the easiest way that you can possibly make and neither one's wrong. It's just a different mindset and on what sword makers have, and some sword makers do not care about how they were done. And I'd say the ones that do have more just more importance of the craft in general, you're not just aiming for the end goal. It's about leaving something after you're gone leaving a you know a culture that can continue and learn and really appreciate what I would say like the truth of the craft is and that's important because a lot of things with movies and video games and things like that get kind of corrupted and it's nice to have some guys that that really care about the craft and propelling the modern day blacksmith or bladesmith into the modern world. You know,

Nick VinZant 33:03

what's your favorite fictional sword? Oh,

Matt Stagmer 33:07

my favorite fictional sword. I don't know. I mean, I enjoy this how like the Kill Bill sword remake was really cool. I love to Kill Bill the movies. So like the Hattori Hanzo, which they it's kind of a made up person, but he was like the master Smith in Japan making the best you know, swords, he wouldn't even make them anymore. So making that was really neat. I didn't have a lot to do with it. But I definitely helped. I'll go ahead and give you let's say the master sword from Zelda I grew up playing the Zelda games so so like making the Master Sword, which we did do was was kind of surreal, kind of put me back in the boots of my eight year old self.

Nick VinZant 33:50

This is nothing against this particular genre of fiction. I don't generally like the anime swords very much. They're too big, or they're too much of a character. I guess I like the simple, the simplicity of it more. Yeah.

Matt Stagmer 34:04

And you know, that's something about it. Like with anime and video games, magic is always a factor, you know, whether they call it magic or they call it you know, Power Up skill level or whatever. So like being able to lift something that realistically would be 150 pounds and swinging around. It's pretty silly with there's something to be said about that. I try not to give anybody crap, depending on you know, what they what they like, so if that's interesting to them to see the impossible done and made look easy by their hero, then that's okay, too. But I agree with you. I like to see them more realistic, even if it's a very fantastic design that probably would have never existed. If it's a realistic feel to it. And it looks like the sword would have balanced and be usable, then that's kind of what I liked the most. The

Nick VinZant 34:46

only one that's modern that I've seen that I was like, oh, that's looks impractical, but kind of cool. Was that new Thanos sword? Yeah, like that was was pretty cool.

Matt Stagmer 34:57

We almost made that but I didn't actually know the guys who make it. A lot of those weapons for the for the movie industry and yeah I can't imagine making that and steel would be a lot

Nick VinZant 35:07

add is there like a general wait like we're okay this is not this you can you can use this thing anymore

Matt Stagmer 35:18

yeah I mean it say like a giant two handed sword like a realistic two handed sword like really like it's this is gonna sound light over like six pounds is like heavy. Think about it you're not just one slice and it's over, you're on a battlefield, multiple people if you conquer your first opponent, you're on to the next opponent and the next opponent, you this could be a 12 hour ordeal or it could be a one hour ordeal either way you want something you can swing over and over and let me just tell you all because most of you don't think about this sword broke on the battlefield more often than they didn't. The sword was actually most often the secondary line of defense here you'd have a long spear or you know some sort of pole weapon that actually would be your first line of defense. You want to keep those people at distance as far as ways possible if your spiritual breakout sword if your sword broke, you break out the dagger and so on so so like, like say you take Lord of the Rings, those style swords, something like that over five pounds is too heavy, to

Nick VinZant 36:26

harken back to when I was drunk and bought the ninja sword. I do remember the next day like swinging it around a little bit. I was like, Oh my God, my arm. Like it felt like my tendons were coming off the next day. And that he must live in good shape.

Matt Stagmer 36:41

And that's a culture where their way of sword fighting is much different than what you think of in the movie. So you know like edge to edge pink PPP PPP. That's not Japanese, Japanese is very deliberate. One or two moves is a full fight. Like literally, after that sword comes out of the sheath, they have a plan this and a plan that and that's pretty much the fight.

Nick VinZant 37:02

How long did it take for you to get good?

Matt Stagmer 37:06

I was pretty okay. Pretty quickly now, I would say a lifetime is the correct answer. I mean it six to eight years before I could do anything that was like something I would show other makers and be proud of. But I was lucky I just I had a background of all the right stuff. And when I got into it, it just I like to tackle like, if my brother told the story of me starting off, he would tell you like I always did. The hardest thing is like I would ask, Hey, what's the hardest thing to do? And they would tell me and they would all go off to lunch and I would stay in the shop and I would try it and conquer it and do it. And I just continued my entire career to look at things that way. Like what's the next hardest thing? What's the next hardest thing? And I go about it that way I got very comfortable in a grinder. That's what people know me for. Kind of like, I'm like the grinder guy. Some people say I'm the best of I don't know if I'm the best but I'm definitely the fastest and confident or I'm a grinder. So that allowed me to get through things very fast. But I'd say to get pretty okay at making swords. It's half a dozen years. Wow. Yeah, at least. I mean to mastersmith level you know 10 years minimum. Dang, yeah.

Nick VinZant 38:32

Then what is the the biggest mistake most people starting out make?

Matt Stagmer 38:39

I think they try to jump right into making something super big and super elaborate where like, say you want to make a sword. You want to be a Sword Maker, I would say make a dagger first. So this big are all the equipment smaller. But it teaches you all the same lessons, all the proportions, everything handle guard, construction, heat treat, it's literally like a sword scaled down. So I would suggest start there. Don't start on trying to make a giant two handed sword before you've done any kind of work. But learn small and progress. That's what I would say. And really, if you want to be any kind of blade maker, knife maker, Sword Maker, whatever. Start with blacksmithing which people kind of combine into the same realm, but they're very different.