Ashley Cox is the founder of the “Nice Guy Reform School”. Her goal is to help men find success in the boardroom and the bedroom by teaching them to stop being “nice” and start being themselves. We talk male empowerment, feminism and what women really want. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Food Groups.

Ashley Cox: 01:33ish

Pointless: 31:21ish

Top 5: 46:59ish

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www.facebook.com/theniceguyreformschool (Nice Guy Reform School Facebook)

www.tiktok.com/@niceguyreformschool (Nice Guy Reform School TikTok)

https://go.oncehub.com/privateassessmentformen (Nice Guy Reform School Sessions)

Interview with Ashley Cox of the Nice Guy Reform School

Nick VinZant 0:11

Hey everybody, welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. Coming up in this episode, nice guys and food groups,

Ashley Cox 0:20

I'm helping men who have essentially given their power away to their relationship, their partner, really anything outside of themselves, and they feel kind of drowned, like they feel like they're drowning, right. That's why it's nice guy reform school, these are guys that will go above and beyond to cross all their t's and dot all of their eyes and do everything. And they're completely lost as to why that didn't accomplish or get them the results they thought it would. So ironically, that actually makes women more attracted to you. Because they see a leader, they see a man that they can follow, they see a man that knows who he is, they see a man who's in his power.

Nick VinZant 0:58

I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, like, download, subscribe, share, leave a review, we really appreciate it really helps us out. So have you ever wondered if you're being too nice. And that that might be the thing that's holding you back, our first guest says that absolutely can be the case. And that being too nice, can keep you from achieving personal and professional success. She's the founder of the nice guy reformed school. This is Ashley Cox, what's wrong with nice guys,

Ashley Cox 1:34

there's nothing wrong with nice guys, if they're happy. That's true. There are a lot of nice guys that are very, very unhappy because they're being nice, so as to get a different need met. Like they're being nice. So someone likes them, or they're being nice. So they're validated or accepted or respected or so they can get what they want. And they don't realize that they're inherently powerful and lovable just as they are without having to perform or provide value to be loved.

Nick VinZant 2:04

So when you say about like nice guy reformed school, like what are you doing?

Ashley Cox 2:08

So I'm helping men who have essentially given their power away to their relationship, their partner, could be a business partner, it could be an intimate partner, their wife, really anything outside of themselves, and they feel kind of drowned. Like they feel like they're drowning in it, right? They they're doing everything they can do. They're not taking any time for themselves. And they're not getting their meet their needs met and return. They're not being appreciated. They're not being valued. In fact, they're usually being usually getting disrespected, undervalued, underappreciated taken advantage of, so I'm helping them understand the difference between being in their power and loving themselves and how to get their needs met that way, versus getting their needs met by putting their power and their energy into something outside of themselves. So as to, you know, hope, hope they get a return back, and usually they don't,

Nick VinZant 2:58

are we talking about people who are just nice bye their personality? Or like that is my fundamental nature or people who have kind of become nice because of society?

Ashley Cox 3:09

Yeah, so there's nothing wrong with being a nice person, right. And when I say nice guy, it's in quotes, because I'm talking about essentially a fawn trauma response. So there's four trauma responses, fight flight, freeze, and fawn. And the fawn trauma response is referring to a people pleasing habit. It's a form of codependency. And I think there's a difference between being kind, and being nice. So sometimes the kindest thing I can do is be honest with you, right? Being nice is essentially being overly concerned with how you view me or how I'm impacting you to the point where I abandoned myself, if I'm doing it to receive validation, attention, love approval, respect from you,

Nick VinZant 3:53

where does this kind of been translate in people's lives.

Ashley Cox 3:57

So it looks like taking better care of other people than you do yourself. So a lot of times, what I'll see is men who say, I've done everything for this person, and I've gotten nothing in return. In fact, she hates me. And she's disrespectful. And so they're very confused around and as to why they're doing all these things for this person and this woman. And like I said, it could be business partner, too. It could be a company. And they are not seeing the ROI that they thought they were going to see. They gain weight, they become depressed, they become bitter. And then sometimes they'll go to therapy and they don't feel they they find that that doesn't help because that therapist will say something like, How was your week and it's just another week of kind of having an existential crisis. And so they don't really have the words for that, right. It's just it goes. It's deep. It's very, very deep in someone's system, when they've been living like this for a long time.

Nick VinZant 4:54

When do you think this kind of started? Are you seeing more of it now? Or

Ashley Cox 4:59

I think it started with this is just a theory. Really, when the feminist movement started, there have been three waves of feminism. And I would say it probably started with the second second wave. And it's just gotten worse with the third wave. I don't think there's anything wrong with the feminist movement. In fact, you know, when I was a kid, I had like a Rosie the Riveter poster in my room, I was, you know, very independent, I grew up in a household of all women. But I think what it's done is one, the patriarchy, I've taught men that they had to protect they had to provide sometimes even give their life. And they weren't allowed to cry about it. They weren't allowed to have feelings about it. So were, we expected them to be robots. And I think that's where a lot of men got their definition of what it meant to be a man as a societal programming of, if you protect, if you provide, if you give your life if you sacrifice if you're a martyr than and, and you don't cry about it, and you suck it up, then that means that that's what makes you a man. And unfortunately, the human body, the human brain, it doesn't work that way. We have emotions, and you either express them or repress them, those are the only two options. So men have essentially become these pressure cookers. And when we add the feminist movement on top of it, women are saying, you know, they're these men have become pressure cookers, and they've, they've traumatized some men have traumatized women because of it. So when they were repressing their emotions, is essentially built up built up, built up, and the man either exploded, and, and traumatized the woman through abuse or something like that, or he completely shut down. And then the woman didn't have a man in her life that was standing up for her. And so what ended up happening was, a lot of men in the world, they either blew up, or they shut down. And the women are saying, oh my gosh, now we're traumatized. Because the fathers are either absent, emotionally unavailable, shut down, you know, a pushover, they didn't protect me, they didn't provide for me, or maybe they provide it for me, but they didn't protect me. Or my father blew up, and you know, he was insane, or an alcoholic, or whatever it you know, whatever it is. And so then men really don't know what to do with this, because they don't a lot of men don't want to hurt women. And so the natural reaction is, okay, well, I don't want to be the, you know, abusive, alcoholic man. And I don't want to I don't want to hurt these women even even more. So I'm just going to kind of play small and play safe. And let's, you know, give the women what they want, and make the woman happy. And they've been through so much. And they think that that's what's going to get them love and respect and validation, and, you know, kind of run off into the sunset because they were the good guy, right? But that's not really what women want or need.

Nick VinZant 7:58

Is this. I mean, I feel like from friends of mine, and just seeing stuff in the media that the men have this kind of confusion about like, well, what am I supposed to be? Am I supposed to be the man that my father was was like this tough? Aggressive take charge? Or am I supposed to be this sensitive, empathetic person? Do you? Is there any kind of confusion that you see amongst men about like, well, what am I supposed to be now?

Ashley Cox 8:23

100%. That's why I do what I do. I like to call it the third way, where you kind of we blend the two, right? Where you're not a pushover. You're in control, you're in charge of your life, and you have an open heart, you're emotionally healthy. You can process emotions in real time, you can hold space for her emotions. It doesn't mean you have to hook into them or emote with her. But when a man can't hold his own emotions, which we haven't really taught men or boys how to do. In fact, we've made it wrong for them to have emotions. And so when we increase a man's bandwidth to process and hold space for their own emotions, they can then be more present with a woman. She has her emotional experiences. They can be kind of like a tree like rooted, grounded, present, but a man who can't hold the space for his own emotions will react poorly to a woman who's emoting. And he, and he'll struggle to set boundaries with her. So it's one thing for her to have her emotional experience. It's another thing for her to have poor behavior. And so it want right because she's angry or something, right. So what we want is a woman who feel safe enough with a present powerful man to emote and tell him how she feels and what she wants without blaming him shaming him or abusing him. And so if the man can stay present and grounded, kind of that bad boy confident energy, right? If he can stay there in it with her, and present, but not hooking I'm not react and set healthy boundaries around her behavior. So I'm here I'm present, I'm not afraid, I'm confident, and I care. But what you're not going to do is attack me, blame me, shame me, abuse me. Because you're hurting.

Nick VinZant 10:14

It seems like a fairly simple thing, right, essentially stand up for yourself. But why do men have trouble doing that?

Ashley Cox 10:21

There are a lot of reasons. But I think one of the biggest ones is in the middle of an emotional situation. It's essentially, both people's enter children coming out. And so what ends up happening is the, the woman is kind of when she's emoting. And she's angry, and she's upset, he probably did something that triggered, you know, some sort of abandonment wound that she has, right, something from her father, it could have been something as simple as you know, he left the socks on the floor. And he's completely lost as to why she's so angry. It's never about the Sox. Right? It's about you know, maybe she doesn't feel cared for, maybe she doesn't feel seen, maybe she doesn't feel heard. And that could go all the way back to her childhood. And so her brain starts to make all of these connections. And then before you know it, she's three years old again. And she's acting like a three year old. And same thing for him. When she goes to that space. It's really easy for him to take it personally, because men really want to please women. I don't think women understand how men are literally designed to respond to us. They're, they're designed to respond to our emotions. They're designed to the to want to please us. And so when a woman is upset and angry, a man immediately, it's very easy for a man to immediately take it personally, and make and think, I must not be enough, then I've done all these things for you. Like how can I, I can't figure this out, right? And he starts to personalize it. And then what happens? He goes into, he gets upset. And then he turns into his three year old that wasn't enough or wasn't seen or wasn't heard. And, and so really, it's kind of like he's viewing her at that moment as almost like a mother figure who is trying to get accept acceptance, validation, respect, approval love from and just can't.

Nick VinZant 12:12

So how did you get started in this?

Ashley Cox 12:15

So it's a little bit of a long story. But for nine months, I was dating. And I, I went out on a date with a guy that owned a law firm who was about my age. And later in the, in the evening, we were lying on the couch, and I had my head on his chest, we were fully clothed. We had really just met a couple. I mean, we maybe this was like the second or third date. And he started crying. And I was like, Wait, are you? Are you okay? And then he before I knew it, he was in the fetal position. And I was, I was very confused to

Nick VinZant 12:54

what? Right? Like, look, I'm not the smoothest guy in the world, but I can I'm better than that. At least. But go,

Ashley Cox 13:04

it was crazy. It was crazy. And think about it. I mean, if you if you're the owner of a law firm, that's a lot of pressure, right? And I met something about me something about my energy was very calming for him, and it felt safe for him. And he essentially started to kind of open up. And all of his kind of repressed emotions started coming out. They weren't necessarily bad. It was just like he said, it felt like he was on a mushroom trip, then it happened again. And so I went into this kind of deep meditation for three weeks, I was walking around Houston, I would walk for five or six hours every day, just thinking, meditating, connecting. And what came to me was that the patriarchy has hurt men just as much as it's hurt women. I mean, having so much pressure on you, right is is not easy. We see it in a suicide rate. So the suicide rate is almost four for men is almost four times out of women. They have they have no outlet for their emotional expression. I want men to have spaces where they can go process safely, without feeling guilty about it or without feeling shame around it.

Nick VinZant 14:17

When people come to you what's usually like their main reason for coming back. Is there a specific area where they say I need help with this, or this is the difficulty that I'm having?

Ashley Cox 14:28

Typically, they are looking at divorce. They're separated or they're thinking about being getting separated, their wife isn't happy. Or this is their third or fourth toxic relationship, quote, unquote, toxic relationship, and they have no idea what's wrong and what's going on because they're doing everything by the book. They're checking all the boxes, right? That's why it's nice guy or form school. These are guys that will go above and beyond to cross all their t's and dot all of their eyes and do everything by the book and everything correctly. And They're completely lost as to why that didn't accomplish or get them the results they thought it would. And they were told, it would essentially, if you're here, just this kind of person, you know, be be this man and a woman will be lucky to be with you. Right? And they don't they find that that's not the case, they find that they get taken advantage of, like I said, disrespected, sometimes cheated on

Nick VinZant 15:26

just the kind of thing like in the professional environment, right? Like I remember in my former career, I said, Yes, and I would do everything. But then when I started saying, No, I suddenly got farther ahead in my life. It did, can this kind of translate into people's professional careers?

Ashley Cox 15:42

Absolutely. So my whole thing is, when a man, so what I like to do is have men heal from their toxic relationships, and use those same skills that they learn to catapult their business. So typically, my client will come in healing from a toxic relationship and a toxic relationship, very confused. And by the time he leaves, he feels 1,000% better, and he's anywhere between doubled, or, you know, kind of quadrupled his business, just by just by doing nothing other than mindset, work, healing, opening up setting boundaries. It's pretty incredible. There's absolutely a relationship.

Nick VinZant 16:25

This is one of those things where I could see playing devil's advocate, some people listening to this and be like, Oh, she's right on. And some people listen to me, like, What are you talking about?

Ashley Cox 16:34

I get that a lot. People said, Well, what's wrong with being nice? Like, screw you, lady. I get that. And my own partner said the same thing. We had a little a little debate about it. There's nothing wrong with being nice. When I say quote, unquote, nice guy, I'm talking about like, again, the fawn trauma response and talking about codependency. I'm talking about taking better care of other people than you do yourself. And we've made that socially acceptable for men. And so it can be confusing, because it's like, well, I've been told to be nice. I've been told not to be an asshole. I've been told to, you know, open doors for women, there's nothing wrong with that, right? It's about the intention, why are you doing it? Are you doing it because someone told you to do it. And because you think it's going to make you a good guy and make people like you? Or are you doing it because you're already in your power, you can set boundaries if you want to, and you're actively choosing to show up and serve and protect and provide because that's who you want to be. And it doesn't matter to you whether or not someone validates you or proves you, or even thanks you for doing what you're doing. This is just who you are as a person. And I think it's important to look at those intentions.

Nick VinZant 17:46

So I was looking at your website, and I saw some things I'm like, Okay, I don't even know what those words necessarily mean. So I'm just going to ask you, so quantum self mastery.

Ashley Cox 17:56

So that's the name of my company. And nice guy reform school is a program underneath that company. And I've called it that, because I do a lot of meditations with my clients. And we essentially access what I call the zero point field, which is where infinite possibilities exist. And it's where a lot of healing can happen. So in that space, there's no time. There's, there's kind of, it's like a field of nothingness and everything all at once. And I'll take men into these meditations where they meet their higher self, they meet their shadow self, they meet their inner child. And they do something called parts integration, which is, when we experienced trauma, we essentially break off like a piece, a little piece of ourselves kind of get stuck in time, because our brain can't process whatever it is, especially as children. And so we go back to that to the root of that behavior, that feeling, and we process it properly. But we have to go into the subconscious mind to do that. So 95% of your behavior is subconscious. And the subconscious mind there's something called the collective unconscious, the subconscious mind is related to the collective unconscious. It's kind of this field that that connects us all. And so when I go into my subconscious mind, I'm essentially accessing that quantum field, the part of life that we we can't see, but we know it's there. We can feel it. There's you know, lifeforce moving through us. There's infinite possibilities. You can look at nature, you can look at the abundance of the universe and see that there's something really wonderful at work. So we go into that place. And we access those emotions, those memories, those feelings, and we work through the root of those because and that place, time and space doesn't exist. So I go back to the point of injury, the point of creation, the point of, you know, wherever that belief started, that wasn't true. And I work through it there, which then has a direct effect on my present day, emotions. It kind of works forwards and backwards. So they'll come out of those meditations having kind of gone gone into retrieve a part of themselves that they didn't even know broke off when they were three, or five or six, whenever there was something as a child that there was, you know, guilt or shame around that they were rejected for. And they thought, oh my gosh, in order to survive in society, I have to get rid of this part of myself, or they just couldn't process the pain. So we go in, and we collect those pieces. And we get back to their soul group blueprint, which is kind of the part of the version of them that has no fear,

Nick VinZant 20:31

the shadow expert part. So what is a shadow expert,

Ashley Cox 20:36

it's essentially the parts of ourselves that we repress. So for example, if as a child, my parents didn't like it when I played, because maybe my parents were anxious, and they thought that they had to function or perform in a certain way in order to get by in life. And so they thought they were doing me a favor, by raising me up to be serious and work hard and not play and to focus. And so as a child in order to stay in connection with my parents, which is in my best interest. So it's in my best interest to essentially cut myself off from the parts of me that they can't handle or that isn't within their kind of scope, right. So if I get in trouble for playing or laughing, or whatever it is, and I realized I'm going to lose connection, I will essentially repress that part of myself, so as to stay in connection with them. Or let's say it was the first time i i saw my dad's porno magazine, when I was eight or something. And I had guilt and shame around it, I might repress that kind of memory, or that part of myself, in order to function as continue to function in their presence continue to function as an adult, right? Just kind of put it out of my mind. And so it's coming back into the fullest expression and fullest spectrum of yourself, and removing that guilt and shame. so as to allow everything to flow more smoothly in your life.

Nick VinZant 22:11

Can people take this too far? Right? Well, I'm supposed to be me. But what if internal, you is just an asshole. Because I don't feel like that's gonna get you very far, either, right?

Ashley Cox 22:21

My psychopath claws, if you are born without empathy, I'm not talking to you. There's professional help for that. But if you're a normal, you know, if you're a functioning human, and you have empathy, and you are mindful, and you have some asshole like tendencies, typically, anger is associated with anxiety or pain. And that is, again, that's a trauma response. So that's what I'm doing with people as I'm like, I would look at what's pissing that person off and get to the root of the anxiety, get to the root of the pain, go back to the memory, where that essentially was programmed. And I would make it conscious. So they can reprogram themselves, and not have that anxiety and not have that pain. The anger is essentially a secondary emotion. So I'm getting to I want to get to the primary emotion get underneath it.

Nick VinZant 23:10

Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions? Yes. Can I get myself out of the friendzone? Yes. How?

Ashley Cox 23:26

Yeah. So that starts again, it starts with you actually detaching from needing something from that person and putting your your power outside of yourself, right. So if you're getting something, if you're getting rejection reflected to you, if you're getting kind of a lack of approval, a lack of validation, a lack of attractiveness, like someone being attracted to you, there's something in you again, it goes back to the guilt and shame, you're playing small. There's something in you that's actually rejecting yourself. And that person is an external mirror for where you're rejecting yourself. And you're not fully accepting yourself. You're not being you're, again, you're not being in the fullest expression of yourself. You're not in your power. And so what I love for men to do is be unapologetically honest and unapologetically themselves. And when I say honest, I don't mean like you were saying earlier, I don't mean to intentionally be an asshole to intentionally hurt people. And like, that's not what I mean. But I mean, don't say yes, if you don't mean yes, say yes. When you mean Yes. Say no. When you mean no, have reasons for things, have values, have standards have priorities, and to not lose yourself, because you want someone to like you. So ironically, that actually makes women more attracted to you, because they see a leader. They see a man that they can follow. They see a man that knows who he is they see a man who's in his power, who again isn't outsourcing his self esteem.

Nick VinZant 24:52

I'll paraphrase this massively. But is that why there's always these memes of like white guys complain about women seem to be grabbing Between gravitate towards the man who treats them like crap.

Ashley Cox 25:04

It's essentially the closest we can come to someone who's completely honest with us. Unfortunately, and I know it sounds ironic because those guys lie as well. But it feels safer to know that this is a man who is willing to fight when he needs to fight, who's, who can be scrappy, who can be honest, unfortunately, a lot of those guys again, that's their own trauma response. That's their own way of protecting themselves, essentially. And I would say they're not actually emotionally available. So what we really want is a man who can do all of those things, who can lead who can fight who can protect us, who's like, kind of has that warrior energy, but who has an open heart. And his boundaries are healthy, they're not to keep people out, not just physically, but when he's emotionally available allows us to feel emotionally safe with him as well. And that's a great way to turn a woman on,

Nick VinZant 25:59

I get the idea, like, Why do some women gravitate towards assholes? Well, because they're showing their true personality as opposed to somebody who's pretending to be nice. And like, Well, what do they really like?

Ashley Cox 26:10

I do want to add something to that. So women, when they're ovulating, they're more attracted to your traditional alpha male. And when they're closer to their menstrual cycle, they are more attracted to your traditional like beta or nice guy, which is really fascinating. So it speaks to it speaks to this kind of evolutionary concept or kind of just human nature, we are attracted to men who, when we're ovulating, we're attracted to men who can protect and protect us and provide for us in the event that we have a child. And that is more valuable in our mind than a man who is compassionate because it's a survival skill.

Nick VinZant 26:48

Where are men generally to nice

Ashley Cox 26:51

when they are trying to gain a woman's approval, and attention?

Nick VinZant 26:56

What do women think about this?

Ashley Cox 26:59

At first, if the woman is the partner of someone who's enrolling, they can be skeptical and go, Oh, my gosh, Who is this lady? And what does she want. And by the end there, you know, they want to send me like thank you cards, because their man is showing up powerfully he setting boundaries, she can respect him, she can relax around him, she can express her emotions without triggering him, she can express her emotions without him blowing up or shutting down. He's just in his power more, that's the only way I can put it. He's taking her you know, I've clients that will haven't really poured into their wives in years. And all of a sudden, they take her to trips, you know, they take her to Italy or Sicily, or give her spa days and just under the understand the importance of helping her relax and making her feel cared for and safe and protected and provided for and all at the same time, you know, and be the importance of them being emotionally available at the same time. And for all that love to come from a place of wholeness and goodness. And without any sort of underlying intention of trying to get something from her. It's just because I love you and I want you to feel cared for I want to pour into you. And it helps her feel completely relaxed, completely safe to see her man in her power and actively choosing her for the first time sometimes in years. And that's something else that I did want to add in is the power of decision making the power of being decisive. Leadership is vulnerable. Right and you have to be decisive to be a leader, you may make the wrong choice. And that's okay. You have to be willing to take that fall. And women want to feel chosen. So a man choosing a woman is a form of leadership. And it's hot, it turns her on it makes her feel extremely loved. So for her man to go from fawning people pleasing, not setting boundaries, not being decisive to all of a sudden setting boundaries, being decisive choosing her pursuing her going all in that just lights her up and helps open her up. And so by the end, the women love it. Although in the beginning, I think everyone's a little confused.

Nick VinZant 29:08

Can women benefit from it? Right because it's nice guy reform school but are women too nice to?

Ashley Cox 29:14

They are. It's a saint. It's very similar when it comes to anyone who is codependent anyone who's people pleasing. They become bitter, they become depressed. They don't want to try again. They're shut down. They're frustrated. They're not sure what they're doing wrong. I mean, I used to be that woman. Right. So what I help men with is something that I used to struggle with, especially in my early 20s. For me, it was also a trauma response. I had very strict parents, specifically a very strict mother. And I thought I had to be a certain way and I thought I had to be providing value to receive love. And unfortunately, I abandoned myself in the meantime, and I didn't get the results that I thought I was going to get by being perfect and eventually I had to learn to just be myself and that that was just that was that was enough?

Nick VinZant 30:06

What's kind of coming up next for you? Like, how can people get a hold of you that kind of stuff?

Ashley Cox 30:10

Yeah, so I have a lot going on this year, I'm doing corporate retreats for executives, and working with executive clients one on one in a corporate capacity and I also still have my private practice. So if you want to book a call for my private practice, you can go to quantum Self Mastery calm and there's a book now button you can find nice guy reformed school on all social media platforms. So you can find Instagram is nice guy reform school tick tock is nice guy reform school, Facebook is facebook.com forward slash Nice Guy reform school. And when it comes to the corporate, what you could do is kind of use those same buttons just to get in contact with me, you could email me and let me know that your corporation is looking for someone to help men with their relationship issues so they can get back into their executive functioning in the boardroom and not be distracted by being emotionally flooded.