Photographer Chris Romain is at the forefront of the growing cannabis industry. He travels the world taking pictures of things you can barely see. We talk cannabis and macro photography, the best weed and the future of marijuana. Then, we countdown the Top 5 Best Snacks.

Interview with Cannabis Photographer Cris Romaine of Kandid Kush

Nick VinZant 0:11

Hey everybody, welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant. And coming up in this episode, cannabis culture, and snacks.

Chris Romaine 0:21

I think it comes from people now being able to see something that they weren't able to see before. And what's really fascinating to me about that as a photographer is thatit's also a living organism. So it dies after, you know you're done. And these are oil glands. So like when you hear like sticky weed or something and you touch like cannabis, and sticky, that's actually the oil glands bursting in your hands. And that's the oil getting over your fingers, you're never gonna find like them. When you go to the grocery store. You're never going to find the aisle starts with chips, then it goes Pringles, then it goes to more chips. Pringles is always isolated on the sides of the chip aisle, is it not?

Nick VinZant 1:06

I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, like, download, subscribe, share, we really appreciate it, it really helps us out. So in this episode, we want to take a look inside. One of the United States is fastest growing industries. And this is really fascinating for me, particularly, because, look, I'm a guy who used to, to buy weed in a back alley and then smoke it out of an old pop can. So to see this sophistication,and how much how much marijuana and cannabis has changed, just in the last couple of years is amazing. Our first guest is a photographer who specializes in taking pictures of cannabis and marijuana. And these are amazing pictures. I had no idea that that's really what cannabis looked like. This is cannabis photographer Chris Romain of candid Cush. One quick note, we have to get really into photography at the beginning, just to explain how it's even possible to take pictures of something this small, but even if that's not your main area of interest, stick with it. Because I think Chris has some fascinating insight into building a business pursuing something that you're passionate about, and where the cannabis industry is going. Basically, what is marijuana photography?

Chris Romaine 2:38

First, I would call it cannabis and that is a part of trying to remove the stigma of the plant itself over you know, the past, you know, however many decades of the war on drugs, right? And so cannabis photography, specifically the photography style that I do is macro and extreme macro, and I use a technique called focus stacking. So that is the process of taking multiple images at different focal lengths to help reduce the depth of field that there is with macro photography. So are you familiar with photography at all like terminology, aperture, shutter speed, things like that depth of field,

Nick VinZant 3:23

I have heard all of those words before, but they mean nothing to me.

Chris Romaine 3:27

Okay, so shutter speed is pretty straightforward, like the rate your shutter opens and closes, the aperture is kind of like your pupil like it will dilate in a darker setting to allow more light in and go to a pinpoint to close off, like more light, right. And so when you are in the process of macro photography, your working distance is really close to the subject. And that creates a very shallow depth of field meaning that if we are focusing on the tip of a pen, the background and the surrounding areas will be rather blurred out and focused right or out of focus. And so to help eliminate that fall off, you would take different images at different focal lengths, and then combine them all later in post processing. So a lot of the images that you would see on my pages are of trichomes and the trichomes are the glands on the cannabis plant that has all the cannabinoids like THC CBD being like the primarily known ones, right? And these are oil glands so like when you hear like sticky weed or something and you touch like cannabis and sticky that's actually the oil glands bursting in your hands and that's the oil getting over your fingers as far as cannabis photography. When people ask me like oh, like I couldn't imagine there being a cannabis photographer like what why do you take pictures We'd or this and that, well, cannabis is just like any other commerce, right. And especially nowadays being in such a digital age and everybody just like looking online for their products. And you know, each state has different regulations about how you can see the product in the stores. And a lot of the times you're not able to smell, touch or even like see the product, you just see it in its package. So that's why the photography aspect of it in the cannabis industry is so important.

Nick VinZant 5:30

That is one of the things that kind of jumped out to me, right, I was looking at some different cannabis photographers looking at your work. And I was very surprised to see that there seemed to be this massive following, dedicated to cannabis photography. Where do you think that where does that come from?

Chris Romaine 5:49

I think it comes from people now being able to see something that they weren't able to see before, and not really having any idea that like, oh, wow, like that sea creature. That's cannabis, that's a plant, you know. And so if I back up a little bit, these trichomes average, around 75 to 150 microns in diameter. So the average human hair is about 100 microns thick. If you think about that, for a second, you can kind of see try comes when you're looking at the plant with a bare naked eye. And maybe it kind of looks like grains of salt, or sugar or something like that. And then when you see my images, like you're looking at it from anywhere from like a 1234, or 5x magnification. So it's really like I'm able to show people, things that they've never been able to see before. And what's really fascinating to me about that as a photographer is that it's also a living organism, so it dies after, you know you're done. Or like while you're shooting, it's dying. And that's like one of the challenges of working with the plant is that often times well, pretty much for all of the tricon photography, the plant has been that particular cut has been taken from the plant. So now it is no longer attached to the main plant. So it has to be held in water or some other type of vessel to keep it like alive while I'm shooting.

Nick VinZant 7:26

So what kind of camera are you using? Then? I'm imagining like you're taking a picture with a microscope? How do you even see it? Like, how do you take the picture? What are you using to take the picture? I have so many questions about

Chris Romaine 7:38

I got the answers. Um, so really, when it comes down to the photographic gear, and this is like a really common question to is always like, what camera are you using? What lens Are you using, and, you know, it does matter to a certain extent, you know, depending on like what your outcome is wanting to be. But as long as you have, you know, solid macro lens and a camera body, you'd be able to do macro photography, but the gear that I use is a Canon five DSR. And that's a 50 megapixel camera. And then I do use some specialized lenses, the one that I use for the trichome photography is called the 65. mp. And that camera lens has the ability to capture from a one magnification to a five times magnification. And the working distance on that meaning the amount of space in between the subject and the front of the lens is really, really small. When you're out of 5x it is, I don't know, like right off the top of my head, but maybe a centimeter or so away two centimeters or so just like really, really close, which creates challenges of its own, right when doing photography, like allowing for light to enter the lens. Because if the subject is covering the front of the lens, you know, then you create a barrier basically, for the light. And then also, with the art of focus stacking, I use an automated rail that I can input, the starting point, the end point, how many how often I wanted to take a picture, so like a step in between each frame. And oftentimes, at a five times magnification, I will be taking a picture anywhere between five and 10 microns at a time. So he will take a picture. And then usually wait a couple seconds because everything needs to be super stable. And then it'll advance forward about five or 10 microns, whatever I decided to put it in, and then take the picture and then wait and then do it again and do it And do it again until the entire focal length or focal plane is captured?

Nick VinZant 10:05

Damn.That's my whole response to all of that is like, right? Like, I didn't honestly think that that would be nearly as complicated as that, like, I got an iPhone, can I do this? Like, it doesn't seem like you can do that very easily. But when, like when you're taking these pictures, what is it for the consumer or for the client? Like what are you trying to capture in the photo.

Chris Romaine 10:33

Um, you know, that's really a case by case like situation depending on like what the client wants. For instance, like, when I do, if we're talking about just tracking photography, you're able to see a number of different things depending on if you know what you're looking for, right? Like, you can tell the maturity of the plant by looking at the different colors of the trichomes, you can tell the health of the plant, you can tell a lot of different things like that, like if you are a hash maker, you can see the size of the trichome heads the size of the stocks, and get a good idea if those trichome heads would be able to break off to create hash. And hash is an extraction process, right? Or it is an extract. So you would just like essentially remove all the plant matter and only have those bulbous trichome heads and then that would be hash. And then also, it just serves as you know, fine art. And like it's a really beautiful plant. And I love like playing with compositions and giving the viewer like an otherworldly or underworld experience when they're viewing my photography. When it comes to stores, and e commerce photography, like if you think about like eBay or Amazon and everything being on like a seamless white background, that is really crucial to the menus on for stores, and having like a well represented image of the product itself, like a nub shot, right? Like just like the picture of the bud, so you can see what you're going to buy.

Nick VinZant 12:22

So when you're taking a picture is the specific plant representative of the entire crop as a whole? Are you picking out like the one good example. And to put that maybe in a clear context, right? Like, I can find one really good apple and take a picture of that really good apple. But that doesn't mean the rest of the apples in that particular tree all look like that. Right? Is the is the particular thing you're taking a picture of usually representative of everything else in that line? Does it make any sense?

Chris Romaine 12:55

I know that that that makes total sense. And okay. I mean, I guess if you, like take a step back and look at like food photography as a whole, oftentimes, like, the product that the photographer is taking a picture of may not even be edible, you know, they use like motor oil to mimic Yeah, syrup and stuff like that. So from like a marketing advertisement standpoint, you would always want to grab like the best selection, you know. So to answer your question, yes, I do choose a premium choice cut flower when I am at a farm or a facility. It is representative of the entire crop. And that would be more based off of, you know, like the brand's reputation or so like, if the brand has like a great reputation, and I'm taking like a choice cut flower from it, people are generally not going to question like, Oh, do they all look like that? Or does it not look like that? Because ultimately, my client wants is hiring me to take the best picture possible to represent their product, right. And I also do a number of different styles of photography. So I'll do like on the vine shots or whole room shots and everything like that, to capture the entire, like vibe of the facility or the farm. Does that answer your question? Yes. Okay.

Nick VinZant 14:24

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. Right? Because it so it's not like, Hey, you know, you go to McDonald's in the picture on the menu is like, Man, that was good. And then you get this thing. You're like, what the fuck happened? This is clearly not. This is clearly not the same thing. Oh, yeah. How did you like how did you find how did you get into this? Is this something that you set out to do? Or is this something that happened?

Chris Romaine 14:47

This is something that happened, and when I mean that, so I've been using cannabis my entire adult life. I'm 34 and I've been using it since I was like 2021 and I've been involved in the arts and creative my entire life as well. I started doing photography in high school and worked or was practicing photography throughout my entire adult life doing landscape photography, model photography, all different types of photography and really wanting to like make it a profession, but really had no idea since everybody since like, iPhones were coming out and everybody was having a camera. And I was living in Las Vegas at the time in like 2009 to 2015 14. And I moved to San Diego, when I moved to San Diego at that time, cannabis was medically legal in California, and you could get your medical card, online and order we do your door same day. And I thought that was pretty mind blowing. And so I went on an app called weedmaps, which is kind of like the Yelp for cannabis, right. And it has pictures and descriptions and menus and all these different things you hook up with like delivery drivers, everything, all the pictures were incredibly awful, just kind of look like, you know, little turds or bugs or something like that. And I thought to myself that I could probably take better pictures in this, you know, I'm just going to order from the nearest guy with the best ratings, order a few different types, take a picture, text him the pictures and be like, Yeah, can I get a free eighth for every picture, I help you build your menu, I start getting you know, hooked up with herb and then I don't know, see, see where it goes. Right. And at the time, there was another photographer, his name is Eric. And he goes by the photographer nug shots. And I had had one of his books, the Encyclopedia of green, which is a really cool book to check out, if you're interested in that, and I was just blown away by his macro photography and everything like that. And that was my one reference and kind of resource to you know, I'm taking all these pictures and I'm getting herb and my friends are smoking for free. And you know, everything's cool. But at the same time, I was working in a nightclub three nights a week in San Diego a day club. And I was doing car product photography for the Audi there four days a week. And I was doing the cannabis photography and trying to like figure that out. You know, I didn't really know what focus stacking was at the time, and I couldn't quite figure it out. Like how to get the images fully in focus. And we're just talking just the nugs of nowhere near tricon photography yet is getting pretty burnt out, like being pulled from all ends, you know, with my hospitality jobs and the photography jobs. And that year, I told myself, if I wasn't making at least 50% of my income from photography, I was going to go back to school, again for like, radiation technician or something, you know, something stable, that was kind of like photography, and everything. And that year, I did make more than 50% via the, you know, outtie gig and doing freelance photography. So I decided that I did not want to be a 30 year old bartender anymore. And I took the leap to move to Oakland because that was the mecca of cannabis, you know, broadly in America, definitely the West Coast and see if I could be a cannabis photographer professionally up there. I emailed every cannabis company. And two of them got back to me, one of them thanked me for my interest and said they had nothing available. The other one said that they were looking for a part time photographer and took about a couple months of interviewing and going back and forth, meeting them talking to them about my skill sets and showing them my portfolio and everything like that. And then they sent me home with a bunch of herbs and was like basically show me what you got, like we're looking for the trichome shots and this and that. And honestly, I didn't really know how to do the tracking shots at that time. And I didn't really know about like the focus stacking technique like I didn't have that dialed in and so I went and rented a 65 mP lens, which is that one to 5x lens. And I just crammed like all night and all day just practicing trying to get it down. I ended up by I research and found out through like bug photography, about focus stacking and I got a manual rail where you would just like where the camera attaches it to the to the tripod, and you would manually turn a little dial as like consistently as possible, like over and over and over all the way through the focal plane. Luckily, I did a good enough job and they hired me and I worked with that company for about three and a half years and I started as a part time many photographer and ended up working my way all the way up to an Associate Director of Photography, I was wanting a change of pace and like different creative ventures after like being there for a while, and so I decided to resign and opened up my own photography studio in Oakland.

Nick VinZant 20:23

So I think the the natural kind of question there the curiosity and can answer this however you want to, how much do you get paid? I guess Like what? Like, how is it a? Is it a financially lucrative job? Are you scraping by like,

Chris Romaine 20:38

I'm right now I am doing really good for myself. Um, it has not always been that way. It was a fucking grind. And it was hard. And it was like, why am I doing this? You know, working with that company. I was a salaried photographer, which I'll just be upfront, it was 80,000 a year. And then my enfold benefits. And then I also did freelance work on the side. So I was clearing six figures. And I was working a lot, like all day, every day, and it's like passion driven to so and that's like, the thing about this is like, yeah, it's totally a job. But I love what I'm doing. And so it doesn't always feel like work. But it's definitely been a challenge being paid what I value myself as, and I think a lot of creatives deal with that. And it's not anything unique to being a cannabis specific photographer. I think that I do. Make more probably as a niche photographer than like, say, like, I don't know, like a baby photographer or something like that.

Nick VinZant 21:59

Are you ready for some harder slash listener submitted questions?

Chris Romaine 22:03

Yeah, let's do it.

Nick VinZant 22:04

Okay, so I don't know what the word necessarily to use, right? Because I take edibles now. I smoked weed when I was a teenager, that kind of stuff. But I come up from the generation like, when I first walked into, like a shop was like, just give me weed like, I don't know, like, this is a weed. Can I Can I have that? So I don't know like the lingo that I'm supposed to be using necessarily. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. So favorite cannabis that you ever photographed? Hmm, like variety or strain or whatever the right word is, is that I'm supposed to be using?

Chris Romaine 22:40

Yeah, a strange variety cultivars. I think all of those would work. You know, that's like a really hard one. Because throughout the years as just I get better as a photographer, like my favorite images, like change, you know, this last year in California, hopland, California, kind of by Ukiah, like central meant, like central Mendocino, I guess. One of my clients, sensia Gardens, they have, I think 12 to 14 different cultivars in their library. And they have some really cool looking flowers. And what I mean by that is just like, the colors are really amazing, like extreme deep purples like right next to like neon greens, and everything like that. I find that stuff really fascinating. A few years ago, I photographed some cannabis, I believe it was called rose lemonade. And it had pink polka dots in the trichome head, which I found pretty amazing.

Nick VinZant 23:47

So when you take these pictures, right, like, Does, does the cannabis really look like that? Are you making it look like that? Does that make sense? Right? Like if I looked at this with my eye, and I had Superman vision and could see this, would it really look like that? Or is it the lighting and the editing and the camera? Or does it really look like that?

Chris Romaine 24:10

So in short, yes. But remember, like lighting changes everything. If you really understand lighting, and you know how to shape and everything like that you can bring out more three dimensional looks and like color highlights depending on like, if you're shining like a backlight to create like a halo or a rim. It really changes colors. As far as the editing process. No, I don't like bump the saturation in the vibrancy. Of course I do do touch ups to make the image look like really nice and pristine. I'm more of a purist when it comes to product photography because the customer like they're buying something based off that image, right? And so if the weed looks purple, and then they get it and it's like brown, you know, that's it. Well, I don't even think that's like morally right. But like, you know, it's just, it's not accurate at all.

Nick VinZant 25:06

What is your favorite weed that you have used, but that does not photograph particularly well. Like, oh, it's kind of ugly, but it's really good.

Chris Romaine 25:19

I guess it's super subjective because I myself am really into organic seed grown full term cannabis grown outdoors. So cannabis grown from seed in the ground for the entire year, outside. And then the another style is like indoor cannabis, where the environment is extremely controlled, and the plants have a different structure and everything like that a lot of people find the indoor cannabis, more aesthetically pleasing than outdoor cannabis. Because outdoor cannabis faces the elements, right? I love outdoor cannabis. And it doesn't always photograph the same as indoor cannabis. So I would say that, but as far as like a specific cultivar or, um, I'm pretty big into like, Oh, geez. And I guess that those are just more green and like kind of tree shaped. So that could be like really beautiful somebody as well. So I guess it's just so subjective,

Nick VinZant 26:29

coolest person you've met doing this?

Chris Romaine 26:33

Oh, man. coolest person I've met. I would, I would say to answer that question. It's not about the coolest person I've met. It's about the coolest opportunities I've had, I've got to hang out with, like Kyle from slightly stupid. Don Carlos, a reggae artist, you know, shooting their cultivars of cannabis. I've gotten me some really important people in the cannabis industry, you know, from breeders, to iconic activists like Ed Rosenthal, it's enabled me to travel the world, and like, you know, go to Morocco and Barcelona and just meeting anybody honestly involved in cannabis. And creating that bridge has, like been just like mind blowing to me.

Nick VinZant 27:36

This is the last question we had, where do you think, how has the industry changed? And where do you think it's going. And that can be the cannabis photography industry, or just the industry as a whole.

Chris Romaine 27:53

So the industry as a whole is like a really big rabbit hole that I would prefer not to talk about. But cannabis photography. That I mean, has changed so much, just in the past few years, from you know, shops having their bud tenders or their body just taking a picture with an iPhone to hiring people like myself to do like, really high end, in depth photo shoots. I believe that it's only going to the demand is only going to increase for photographers like myself, as legality happens nationwide and globally. I think we're still at the beginning. I think there's plenty of opportunity for tons of people to get involved. I think there's more than enough clients. And I don't think that there is enough really good cannabis photographers in the field right now.

Nick VinZant 28:57

Does that cause any problems for your business? Right, that it's not legal? In some states to be paid in cash?

Chris Romaine 29:06

Yeah, I mean, yeah. So I mean, that is a major issue because no one can bank. I mean, I can, I'm just a photographer. But my clients can't bank. So say my client gets robbed of his cash. And I was supposed to get paid well, then I just don't get paid. And that's happened multiple times throughout my career. And then I get a bunch of cash. And then I have to constantly be depositing I have you know, cash on hand at certain times. And it just creates like a bunch of like, you know, security issues and it's just like a huge headache. Honestly,

Nick VinZant 29:45

did we did we just make you a target for robbery. Please contact Chris. Currently at blank blank Street. By the way,

Chris Romaine 29:58

just cash

Nick VinZant 30:00

You see this guy with this really nice photography camera, you can rob him for the camera and the money. Well, now they won't even feel guilty about.

Nikck VinZant 30:18

No, that's all the questions I got. Is there anything else you think we missed or what's kind of coming up next for you,

Chris Romaine 30:24

I'm actually going to be going out to Oklahoma City, which is like booming for cannabis right now, surprisingly, enough. So that's gonna be a pretty cool road trip, probably in the end of June. And then I'll be back in Northern California for the harvest season. In October, November. I'll probably be in Santa Barbara throughout the year for some clients down there. And probably have to start working on the van again next winter, because I don't think I'm going to get it done by June.