From National Championships to the Olympic Games, Professional Table Tennis players Sam Walker and Kanak Jha have represented their countries at the highest levels. We talk table tennis vs ping pong, the Tokyo Olympics and the best table tennis trash talk. Then, we countdown a special thirst-quenching Top 5.

Interview with Table Tennis Pros Sam Walker and Kanak Jha

Nick VinZant 0:12

Hey everybody, welcome to Profoundly Pointless. My name is Nick VinZant coming up in this episode of Olympic Games and drinking games,

Sam Walker 0:22

I remember standing on a stool so I could see over the table and just play him and my dad and my granddad at the beginning. And he said, Yes, I was, too, when, when he first started, get got me playing,

Kanak Jha 0:34

the ball is traveling. It's such an intense speed that a lot of times you're not really thinking consciously or what's happening in that point, you're just kind of reacting naturally. And when you got the uniform, and you see the US flag on your shirt, it's a really humbling.

Sam Walker 0:52

But doing an Olympics was just that was so many specialists, we had to get through that first match against France, I think we'd be friends, three, two, it was like five and a half hours long.

Nick VinZant 1:04

I want to thank you so much for joining us. If you get a chance, like, download, subscribe, share, we really appreciate it. It really helps us out. We have two guests today. So I want to get right to them. Both of our guests are professional table tennis players who have competed at the highest level. Sam Walker competed for Great Britain in the 2016 Olympics and at the Commonwealth Games, and cannot jauh competing for the United States at the 2016 Olympics. And is the United States world champion. Just for some housekeeping, I'll ask a question. You'll hear Sam Walker first, and then cannot jaw. So what's your earliest memory? What's your earliest memory of table tennis?

Sam Walker 1:49

I've always played as far back as I can remember, I've played three sports. So table tennis, cricket, and football. And I remember I remember standing on a stool so I could see over the table and just play him and my dad and my granddad at the beginning. And he said yes, I was too. When, when he first started get got me playing,

Kanak Jha 2:10

I would say my earliest memories playing with my mom, actually the one local community center, like five minutes from my home in California. Where are you?

Nick VinZant 2:20

When did you realize you were good?

Sam Walker 2:22

I guess I've realized I was good was when I was like nine or 10. So that's kind of when I realized, okay, actually, you know what, like, I am quite good at this game.

Kanak Jha 2:32

The first time I played the tournament internationally was when I was 11. It was a 12. And under competition kind of for international for young players, I kind of had no idea what to expect going in there. I thought maybe I would be terrible. But no, I was okay, compared to a lot of the kids from the other countries. And that kind of gave me an idea that I was not bad for my age.

Nick VinZant 3:00

So what makes you good at it? Do you have like an impeccable strategy? Are you really athletic, like great reflexes? Like why are you good at

Kanak Jha 3:10

I think tennis in general, it's a sport that requires a lot of different qualities to be a good player. I mean, mentally, you have to be extremely focused on the table and physically have to be quite fast and explosive, with a lot of fast movements in the sport, everything is fine. As you know, there's not many long rallies, per se compared to tennis or badminton. But rallies are really short and intense. For me naturally, I've always had quite a good sense of focus and awareness of what's going on in the match. So I can kind of see the game pretty well compared to a lot of players. And I think that's one of my biggest strength. Now, there's

Sam Walker 3:55

a lot of different factors right now. One being simply the amount of hours I've trained for it, and the amount of experience I've got now. And you know, being just keeping that motivation, that dedication to go into practice every day for four or five, six hours, sometimes every day. And the mentality around that. And, you know, times when they are hard when you know you've put in a lot of practice, you're not seeing the results that sometimes are a bit demoralizing to then keep getting up to go to practice. And, you know, a lot of people say to me, like, oh, but you've got a great life, you know, you can you get to travel a lot for your job, you get to do something that you love, which is absolutely true. You know, I don't feel sorry for myself one bit, but sometimes it's really hard when you don't see. See the work straightaway. You know, like the results of the work you've been doing straightaway. Sometimes it can take you know, a couple of years to see something happen in a match that you've been practicing and the amount of time you spend on your own travel in Table Tennis in individual sport. So although you're playing for clubs and you're playing for your country, you spend a lot of time on your own. And you have you have to learn to, you know, enjoy that time being by yourself. And, and that's something that I think a lot of table tennis players have struggled with. And in terms of mental health as well, I think there's been a lot of like, people struggled with mental health in table tennis, that probably not a lot of people know about, because of the way the sport is. So there's obviously, when you say, how would you be good at table tennis, obviously, you have to be good at Table Tennis on one side, you know, through the training and everything like that. But you're also have to learn and understand that you're going to be, you know, doing a lot of traveling by yourself, you're going to spend a lot of time in hotel rooms by yourself. And you have to learn how to kind of deal with that and be be happy and enjoy that

Nick VinZant 6:01

when you go up against somebody. Obviously, you're trying to win the point. But what are you trying to do? Are you trying to put enough spin on it so that it puts them out of position? Are you trying to just blasted past them? Like, what's this? What's this strategy?

Sam Walker 6:16

It's kind of dependent. First of all, well, first of all, my strategies will be to go and try and play my game, which is an attacking game, I want to play in top spins, rather than, you know, the defensive shots. I want to, you know, try to be get playing aggressive, playing early, taking the ball early and, and you know, playing with a lot of spin but topspin rather than backspin and be an attacking. So that's my first game plan against anybody, then the rest of it in terms of the very detailed tactical stuff. So am I gonna serve? Sure, am I gonna serve long? Do I play more to the backend more to the forehand? How do I receive that all depends on which player I'm playing against, that comes with study in that player before you play them. Or sometimes you just know the players, you know, a lot of players, you just know, because you've played throughout the tournament and the leagues for so long. And you just know those players anyway.

Kanak Jha 7:20

I mean, in the end, you're trying to just win the point, however you can, I would say the basic strategy, especially in higher level table tennis is to try to kind of impose your game onto the opponent. For example, My style is I really like to stay close to the table and play with a lot of speed. What I try to do is not let the other opponent oftentimes have more power than me have more time to play their big shots and longer swings and try to put them under a lot of time pressure

Nick VinZant 7:53

table tennis more than any other sport that I can think of the difference between what reg, what it looks like when regular people play and what professional people play. It looks like a completely different sport.

Kanak Jha 8:06

Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's, it's a special compared to a lot of people. Yes, it's really a different sport from what people imagine their heads, the professional stage, it's a really high speed and very physical sport in general. So much spin in on the ball and the players are so physically fit with a lot of power and precision. So it's really a really technical as well as physical sport. And I think, I mean, that's one of the things I love about it is that it has so many different aspects to the game, not just the physical side, the technical and mental side.

Nick VinZant 8:43

How fast is that ball moving? Does anybody ever, like clock it with a radar gun or anything?

Kanak Jha 8:50

It's really quite fast. I'll tell you that. Actually, it's fine. Today in my training, we had a kind of device that helped practice speed of the ball. And I mean, sorry for the people watching us because I mean, Jeremy, so these kilometers, but I mean, the ball is going at an average of 7080 kilometers per hour or even going to 100 kilometers per hour. So it's really fast sport.

Nick VinZant 9:18

I only know this because I live close to Canada, but 100 kilometers an hour is 60 miles an hour. So like you You must have very good reflexes I'm assuming.

Kanak Jha 9:28

Yeah, definitely. reflex is a huge part of the field. And it's I think it's one of the fastest reflex ports to be honest, you require a tremendous amount of reflex. I mean, the ball is traveling so fast and often with a lot of speeding that you have to be able to adjust and even less than a second at times. When you're judging the spin. Are you watching the ball itself? Or are you watching how your opponent hits it? To tell what the spin is going to be? Normally you're watching the opponent And first, of course, how he hits it. And also, in many cases, you can hear the sound if the racket makes of the opponent when they hit it, which helps give you a better idea of the spin on the ball,

Nick VinZant 10:15

you can tell the spin by the sound of it. Yeah,

Kanak Jha 10:18

I mean, the sound is, I would say a part of the way players read the spin on the Pro, for example, if it's a very brushing sound from the opponent, you can tell there's a lot of spin on the ball, then, of course, it also comes with a lot of just muscle memory, where naturally, you just know what's been a ball from so many different practice sessions with different players. I mean, in the master game, the ball is traveling, it's such an intense speed that a lot of times, you're not really thinking consciously, or what's happening in that point, you're just kind of reacting naturally and making small adjustments with your head during the point. But a lot of the techniques are just what you practice in the hall every day, and it's muscle memory.

Sam Walker 11:04

But it depends if if I've played a shot first, if we're in the rally, I played my shot first. And there's only so many different variations of spend that they could put on, depending on what shot I've done. So it's easier to predict when you're in the rally, because you can kind of minimize their their options. Whereas when they serve, and they've got the ball in their hand, and there's not been any shot, before that they have every single option that they are capable of doing. So that's when it's a lot harder. And that's when I will, and probably most players will then watch the ball a lot more closely, depending on see which way the ball experience. So there's a little, there's a little marking on the balls, which is like the brand of the ball. So there's always a marking to say which brand has made the ball. And you can always see that spinning. And the more you practice it and the more you see and the more you concentrate in on that, the easier and quicker it gets to read that spin and see that that marks been in in a certain direction or sometimes not speeding, which means there's there's not much spin on the ball.

Nick VinZant 12:24

So you're never like thinking, Oh, I should hit this to the left side, or Oh, I should hit this to the right side. It all just kind of happened.

Kanak Jha 12:31

Yeah, definitely, I think in the rally when you're attacking, it's normally the other players defending so you have a little bit more time. And then you're kind of thinking more to the point. But for example, the rally is going really fast and both players are attacking close to the table, then most of the time, it's really hard to think where to play the ball or how to play the ball. And it's more just reflexes and subconsciously trying to reach the ball in time

Nick VinZant 12:59

are most like in terms of a physical size, like is there an optimal size for a table tennis player

Kanak Jha 13:06

compared to other sports, it's a lot more open ended. Then for example, in gymnastics where normally they're quite short, and obviously extremely flexible and explosive. I mean, table tennis, there are some general similarities between all high level players. And normally you need a really strong, an explosive legs and kind of a strong lower body. I mean, the core is also extremely important because I mean, it feels like you're changing directions so fast and depends a lot on your style. Because in table tennis players tend to have a lot of different styles depending on their body type. For example, me I'm quite short and a bit smaller than most high level tennis players, which is why my style is trying to be a little more quicker and faster and staying closer to the table to give the opponent more time pressure versus some players that are taller and bigger. And they're generally not as fast as the smaller players and they need more time and they tend to play a more powerful game.

Nick VinZant 14:16

What's it like competing for your country

Kanak Jha 14:18

is it's always amazing to play for your country, you know, whatever, whichever tournament that is. But doing an Olympics was just that was something special. It's what obviously what, you know, I took up table tennis because I want to represent my country at the biggest stage in the world. And that's the Olympics for our sport. And yeah, it was just such an incredible feeling to be able to go out there and play in front of, you know, one of the biggest crowds we've had as certainly as one of the best crowds I've had as a player in Rio, and we're to get through that first match against France. I think We'd be France Three, two, it was like five and a half hours long, like the longest match ever recorded in table tennis, and Olympics. So it was crazy.

Sam Walker 15:11

I mean, it's an amazing feeling for sure. I remember the first time when I competed, and I was young. And when you got the uniform, and you see the US flag on your shirt, it's a really humbling feeling. Because when growing up you see on TV and a dream, you know that these are really a special group of people. So me to represent my country. It feels like the greatest honor you know, and I'm always so proud to wear the shirt. And it also gives you a bit of a extra motivation when you put on the shirt to know Wow. Now representing my country now, it's a great feeling. And a very proud feeling. Were you in Rio, I competed in Rio. I was really young at the time I was 16 years old. And so I say it was a really cool experience. I lost really early in the competition. The first, say the first preliminary round, I lost quite fast. And that was a really memorable experience for sure. And it gave me a lot of experience and confidence going forward. The Olympics is the biggest of events for me, for everybody in general. And also for table tennis. It's really the most prestigious event there is in the sport. I mean, it's really exciting. And looking forward to it and hope to compete. Well there.

Nick VinZant 16:36

Are you ready for some harder slash listeners submitted questions?

Kanak Jha 16:42

I don't know. But I think so.

Nick VinZant 16:44

So let's see, which title Do you prefer table tennis or ping pong.

Kanak Jha 16:49

I prefer table tennis Jessica gets it sounds a bit more professional. But I know a lot of people call ping pong too. To be honest, when I'm in the US, I called ping pong to people also, because they kind of have a better recognition of this word. But if you can, I would say table tennis,

Nick VinZant 17:06

hardest type of spin for you to deal with.

Kanak Jha 17:11

There's a lot of spins in the game. I gotta say the hardest type of spin to do is when you don't know what spin is coming, which is most often the case when a player is serving, and they have a really quick wrist motion. And you almost couldn't catch what they what they just did. And then if you don't know what spins coming, you can just touch your racket and fly off to the left side, the right side, just directly down. So the hardest spin is the one you don't know. It's on the ball.

Nick VinZant 17:43

I would imagine that that this is the type of sport where even professionals can sometimes look completely ridiculous, right? Like the ball just goes shooting off into the stands. Does that happen?

Kanak Jha 17:54

Yeah, I mean, a lot of times you can even top players they can look, I mean bad, you could say compared to what people would think. If you miss read the spinny can often times lead the ball going completely opposite the way you want the ball to go.

Nick VinZant 18:10

I can't say that I've watched a lot of table tennis or tennis. But it does seem to me like the person serving has a massive advantage, right, and the person who wins seems to be the one that can eventually break serve.

Kanak Jha 18:23

Yeah, the serve is a big advantage in sports. I mean, I would say like this, in general, when it's close, you want to be the one serving, especially when you reach a higher level, the players they're playing with so much quality on the ball that a lot of time what you're practicing is having to serve and protect the next ball. So what players especially the high level do is they're so knowledgeable about the spin they're putting on the serve, they kind of know what to expect on their sleeve. And that helps them prepare their shots beforehand, while compared to and once you reach the rally, I mean, it's more speed and reflexes and just kind of subconscious playing but especially in table tennis I'm not so knowledgeable about tennis is that with the server, you can really prepare how you want to rally to start. So the server definitely is a really big advantage. And for the most part, the server has the advantage because he can kind of dictate how the rally will start.

Nick VinZant 19:24

I've always wondered when I've seen it right. And you see some of those like long rallies and both players are like as far back as they can possibly go. Like why doesn't somebody just hit it short?

Kanak Jha 19:35

Yeah, I mean, when the both the pump both the players are kind of farther away from the table. In general, you're playing the ball with a lot of topspin because you need the ball to have the power to go to the other side. So you're playing the ball without topspin, which means when it bounces on the table, it kicks a lot to the underside of the table in general Yes, it is pretty much almost impossible. I won't say possible because everything is possible. But it's almost impossible to play the ball short, just because you have to normally play a lot of pops and back just to have the power to make it reach over to the other side of the table. I mean, what a lot of players like to do is when they're close to the table, and the other players kind of farther away in defending is they like just kind of call it a drop shot, where they just kind of touch the ball and make it go short over the table. So the player who's farther farther away from the table, can't run back in time to catch it. But it's a really advanced shot and quite difficult to do.

Nick VinZant 20:44

Do you ever name any of your shots? Like, the Jha express or something like that?

Kanak Jha 20:51

Yeah, I suppose it's a bad name. No, normally not.

Nick VinZant 20:57

Is there trash talking and table tennis.

Kanak Jha 21:01

I think there's trash talking and all sports. To the degree I think more than others. I mean, we're definitely not like maybe the UFC or NFL or something where we're just trash talking on the court. Most of us are quite polite, in most cases. I think one of the things to be honest, that has to do with that is sport is really dominated by Asians at the higher level, there's the Asian countries are really so strong in the sport, China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan. And in general Asian cultures, they're really polite on the table in the way that they don't trash talker, kind of provoked better players, that's kind of guess how their culture is seep maybe a bit into other countries at a higher level. But there's definitely some trash talk and some seven motions, which always course makes it fun for both the players and the spectators, you can get this more kind of arguments with the umpire. Because

Sam Walker 22:05

there's a lot of rules around the service that you're not allowed, you know, you have to throw the ball up so high, you're not allowed to hide the contact. So when the ball hits your bat, you're not allowed to hide that contact from your opponent's like vision. So they have to be able to see that contact so that they've got a chance to read in the spin. And you have to have like a flat palm, you can't put spin on with your hand when you throw the ball up. So there's a lot of, you know, that is a tough thing that for an umpire to kind of have to judge all of those things. And it's quite a tough thing to referee. But you know, when you can imagine when you know, there's a big match in a big stage, and, you know, some guy's got a really obviously illegal serve, because he's totally hiding it, throwing it back, you have to throw the ball up straight. Because those kinds of things make it really hard to receive a surf. You know, if you throw the ball straight onto the bat, rather than up, you can generate so much more spin and pace on your surf. And it makes it very difficult to read the surf. And some players bring that out only in an important point. And that's when you can have a big argument because is not always easy for the umpires to see when when a player has not done it or match. And then suddenly, it's his nine oh, in the last set. And they need two more points to win and they've got two serves and there's bring out these two serves that are totally illegal out of nowhere. And it's quite tough for an umpire to stand up and say no, that's, that's an illegal serve. Because then your opponent, get their opponent or get the point. You know, so. And that's when you can have arguments in in table tennis. That's the main reason you get arguments and kinda, you don't really get trash talk. But between if you only do between the mace that they're like you say, I like if your friend is a really bad shot, you'll say oh, that's got his own plane ticket, you know, like he's missed a table by like miles that we tried to play a sharp and you say, you know, that was great. You're implying that it's got its own flight ticket or, you know, things like that. Yeah, there's there's some when I used to play that local league that everybody used to say like, if if I served off if I served off in local League, there's this against this one guy. So local league is when I was going back to when I was like 1011 years old playing against all these old guys, which is just like in a local league kind of competition. And this other guy, you'd always if I saved off it always go Happy birthday. Like you know cuz it's just like an easy it's like the easiest point to give him who is the greatest table tennis player who's the Michael Jordan of table tennis.

Kanak Jha 25:00

I mean, for me, and for most players, its name is Milan. He's from China. And he's the current Olympic champion, he wanted Rio, and he's the, the previous three World Championships, he has won, he's really something, there's something else in the sport, and he will also be competing in Tokyo. And if he manages to win there, I think he'll be the first or second seed going in there, he'll be the first player in history to win two Olympics. And that two, two Olympics in a row. So

Sam Walker 25:30

the Chinese players in table tennis is, you know, almost, you know, everybody knows that the Chinese are the best at table tennis. And they are incredible. And they haven't lost a team match for 21 years now. Which is incredible. When you look at any nation of in any sport, which, which nation has gone 21 years without losing a team match, you know, in any sport, if you can name me one, then that's just incredible. You know, when I hear people talking about are these are this is the best sports team in the world. This they are, you know, for me, the best sports team in the world has been China and table tennis because they've not lost a match for 21 years. And that's, you know, that's gone through three different generations of players maybe more.

Nick VinZant 26:27

This this being an Olympian or a table tennis pro help you with the ladies is the question.

Kanak Jha 26:33

I think being an Olympian maybe without more of us and saying I would say you're being punked, US normally doesn't have such a high connotation in someone's mind.

Nick VinZant 26:48

Yeah, you gotta lead with the Olympian.

Can this be a living for you? Right? Could you do this for 1015 however many more years and then retire,

Kanak Jha 27:11

I would say it is possible if you're, if you're at a really top and you really maximize your profits in terms of sponsorships and competing and prize money and the league. But in general, it is really difficult. And it is a lower salary sport compared to other other sports and in the US, it is impossible to be a professional tennis player.

Nick VinZant 27:31

How good are you at beer pong?

Sam Walker 27:36

You know, I haven't played beer pong, probably since I was about 16 or 17. house buyers, when I was like, still like, towards just coming towards the end of school. And I did actually used to be really good. So if anyone wants to challenge me, I'd be well for a game cuz I've not played for ages and ages.